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Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:58:00 - [91] Originally by: Deira Lenia It depends on what you qualify rich at. Istvaan Whatevertherestwas from GHSC has close to 500b My trade acc is currently floating around 450b (incl order assets) This char has about 10m My pvp char is on 211.348.573.771,94 I dont think im rich. I could buy any item in the game, but i dont qualify as rich. Why? Because if i buy anything, ill become even less rich. Which means ill never be rich. It's Shogaatsu, god damnit. If I were to quantify the meaning of "rich" in Eve Online, I wouldn't call it any specific number. To me, rich is the point when you have enough money, for money not to matter anymore.
cpt Mark	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:00:00 - [92] How rich is rich? I have 350 Mill in assets + capital. That to me is okay.
Triss S'Jet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:33:00 - [93] I fail at being rich - 3 years, 300mil in my wallet and dropping very fast due to me getting popped every day.
Janni Ratkaainen	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:41:00 - [94] the last 50 odd million i spent came from corp members and corp funds... since we took down out POSs i have had no income. and killing people doesn't turn much profit.
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:47:00 - [95] Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 09/02/2009 13:47:56 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. I "only" started in 2005, so never got the feeling for 03-04, but a little comparison.. ..when me and my brother started, we both wanted in a battlecruiser. For Amarr, that meant the Prophecy. It cost craploads on the market, and doing the maths on how long time it would take to rat (missioning wasn't profitable), we found out it was actually faster to buy a BPC, mine the minerals ourselves, and have a corpmate build it. I trained Amarr Industrial 1 (still got that at that level btw), he trained basic barge. He mined, I hauled. We split the income brotherly, and after a few weeks we could proudly build us two Prophecies. Today you just run the tutorial, bam, 2mil+. Go run a few level 1's, progress to 2's. Train salvage. Bam, day one you have 30mil to buy yourself a BC, alot cheaper than you can build it for anyway. Few days more training and you drive it in level 3's, then you can start the slow learning grind while you mix in some shorter combat skills, and reap in a couple of tens a mil a day. Hard today? That's actually a really cool story. Brotherly love. <3. Remove Insurance, and it'll make things a lot better. Edit: it'll make losses hurt more, but it won't make things any cheaper/more expensive.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:55:00 - [96] WTB: 2x Nyx 1x Leviathan 20x Revelations Faction stuff, all you can send. Please send contracts this way oh wait...
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:11:00 - [97] Originally by: McTard If he believes we get isk too fast/easy he's admitting to some kinda game risk imballance and thinks T3 and skill loss might help offset that. I think it's wrong. Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. That aint rich, most people arent rich. Confirming the eternal truth to this statement. EVE history t2 precisions
GoGo Rens	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:22:00 - [98] The reason most more modern games have gone away from exp loss is because it was always so unpopular. In a game like eve where you have no way of grinding your lost exp back up it is an even worse idea to do this. EVen in a game like the original Everquest the you lost exp when you died but in the end they introduced a spell that would reduce the exp you lost by up to 96% why? because everybody hated the loss to much and it was losing customers. I realy feel if they do this people will hate the loss so much it will just cause people to leave the game or whinge and whinge until it is changed. CCP should learn from other games history and realise that exp loss is never a good idea. I read oh you only lose 5 days worth , what if you die 3 times a week. well err you gonna be constantly going backwards with no way within the game mechanics to off set it with grinding. exp didnt work in grindable exp games and it certainly wont in a non grindable exp game.
agent apple Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:27:00 - [99] Here's an idea... Stop selling isk
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:37:00 - [100] Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? I had to borrow 120m from a m8 for a new ship :(
Daoi Sith	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:41:00 - [101] Originally by: Kahega Amielden It -is- too easy to make ISK. The reason people claim to be poor is because they don't like spending time making ISK, because it's not as fun as PVPing, and because people ONLY fit t2 and refuse to fly cheap (How many t1 cruisers/frigs piloted by non-noobs do you see?) People then go, take these ships and get them blown up for no real reason. CCP's goals are: -PVP isn't PVP just for PVP's sake, PVP instead as something to protect your income source. Straight from CCP Dionysus. CCP Zulupark also mentioned that the primary income source for combat pilot (Hisec missions )were imbalanced. I believe CCP's goal is that people PVP not just forthelulz but for territory and such, even in lowsec. -Make PVE more interesting. They're improving the AI and trying to make PVE interesting as well (through better mission arcs, improved AI, etc), so it's not so incredibly boring and grindy. I think what they mean by "Too right" is that having low ISK just means you need to go back and grind a bit in hisec for a few hours to rebuy your ship of choice. I think they want to change it according to what I said above so that it's not such a grind, and it's not just mindless grindtime since you'd be doing it out of hisec **** If my interpretation of CCP's goals and changes is incorrect, CCP, please feel free to bow before me and apologize for making your intents not as clear as they should be. Don't worry, I'll forgive you. people play to have fun, not to grind 80% of their time away. anyone that puts their mind to it can make isk but it requires so much time that the game loses its appeal. many have found a balance between how poor they are willing to be and how much they are willing to grind. the rich ones use GTC (there are WAY more of these than admit it) or are part of an alliance with moons and resources that most don't have. character farming is another source of isk. look at the volume of posts in the gtc and bazaar forums. players are doing just about everything they can to avoid grinding BECAUSE ITS NOT FUN. CCP can think whatever they want about ISK and how easy it is. when the game is no longer fun, I will stop playing.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:44:00 - [102] Edited by: TraininVain on 09/02/2009 16:47:02 Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? I'm not too rich. I have ISK for my PVP ships and that's what I find fun in EVE. Missions are OK but I wouldn't have the patience to say... grind twice as much ISK as I do now. I wouldn't have the patience for mining. Really. I'd give up and play something easier. Maybe it's too easy to do if you're one of these weird ****ers who'll play a MMO like a second job but I don't have the energy for that. It's just not fun. I suspect that the people who do get something out of it beyond the ISK anyway. Yeah, I'm lazy. It's a videogame though.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:48:00 - [103] Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? I would fly a ship that would cause sp loss, even if i lost up to 2 weeks of sp, so long as the ship gave me an increased chance of killing multiple ships in pvp.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:18:00 - [104] For every "rich" person I know there are at least 20 who are barely getting by. That's WHY so many GTCs get sold -- a giant chunk of the playerbase can't be bothered to grind or run ISK making alts. Ironically the SP loss mechanic will even the playing field for people willing to fly T3, whether they be rich or poor.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:09:00 - [105] The truly rich people dont experience loss. They're all empire carebears who's only risk is making only 5% on a transactions, and not their standard 10%. So what's rich to an empire carebear might be tens of billions of isk. To a 00 carebear, possibly only a couple tens of billions. And all that dwarfs a 00 pvp'er, who may only have a few hundred million from grinding out 00 ratting. And sadly, even those pvp'ers dwarf low sec pirates, who always seem to be just getting by. So, its all relative. I'm 'rich' for a 00 pvp'er myself.
Krystal Demishy	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:20:00 - [106] Things like these **** me off, 'couse i'm not rich and every loss is hard for me to recover, 'couse i need a lot of days ratting to get a new ship. If someone is too much rich and got hundreds of accounts, why should i be penalized too (i'm already penzalized having only 1 account and few time to play, why penalize me even more ffs?)!
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Clan MacPherson	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:29:00 - [107] I think I started in 04. I mainly empire hug - I sometimes load up a BC - jump out of my implants and go low sec/null space rat hunting for the kicks. I play fairly casual and I am sitting on about 450 mil cash. I also have a fleet of 10-12 battleships I have outfitted with rigs and all. All to keep those lvl 4s interesting. Some T2 ships/frigs/cruisers. Junk laying around everywhere. Have to say I am prob worth about 3 billion maybe? Not sure. But for me doesn't matter. I log in few hours and have enough to try out and do what I want. Feeling the itch to die though. Think last time I was podded was back in early 07. Pod needs replacing.
Haldane IV Einstein's Dreams	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:32:00 - [108] I'm sorry, but with a CCP sanctioned mechanic to enable anyone to obtain a few billion by buying and selling game time cards any time they like in place, I can't take this discussion seriously.
Gambuk	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:41:00 - [109] Isk comes and goes but SP last a lifetime~!
Dari Anoh Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:46:00 - [110] Maybe whenever someone posts a "Can I have your stuff", CCP thinks they actually get it?
Kephael Caldari Shoot To Thrill Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:53:00 - [111] Edited by: Kephael on 09/02/2009 19:02:40 What's "rich"? I don't consider myself rich, yet I purchase GTCs and never let myself go under 1 Billion Isk Cash. When you call someone risk, do you include their SP value? I personally sink quite a bit of isk into continuing character advancement.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:54:00 - [112] The problem is that isk ends up in the hands of the to few given the current game mechanics and end games available. Many industrialists are sitting on hundreds of billions of isk with little to do with it. Case in point with Ebank fastly approaching the 2 trillion mark. That is A LOT of idle isk people are willing to give to a third party for a small return.
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.02.09 19:05:00 - [113] Regarding SP Loss: Stupid. I see no reason for this, other than to really tork people off. Regarding being Rich: Uhhhhh...yeah. This is why I will only go out in T1 ships, because I have so many darn zero's in my bank account. Sounds more like the big boys are starting to get market competition and its making them all very sad pandas. Most I have EVER had was 150 mil, and only because I had to borrow money to replace a BS that I lost in PVE. Yep, it does happen. It was a stupid moment. Anyways, I have never broke 85 mil in my own wallet, so yeah, define rich.
Zey Nadar Gallente Stormwatch Galactic	Posted - 2009.02.09 19:42:00 - [114] Originally by: ghost st Its not really the amount of isk you make, thats has been roughly the same since i started playing. But the prices of everything have been plummeting, making it more affordable.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.02.09 22:21:00 - [115] Originally by: Janni Ratkaainen killing people doesn't turn much profit. Then you're doing it wrong.
Jack Light legion syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.09 22:23:00 - [116] There is no such thing as being too rich
OffBeaT Caldari LEGI0N	Posted - 2009.02.10 00:24:00 - [117] Edited by: OffBeaT on 10/02/2009 00:26:56 i cant move well in 00 space to npc hunt i am hunted buy everyone as soon as i start npcing.. its real tough now to make any real isk unless i can get into a alliance way deep in a 00 system somewhere. most people only have so much time after work to make isk its halfe of our eve time so truly i am starting to worry if i can afford to play eve time wise to get anything done. ccp is just letting the alliances have to much control over chock points with gate locking so that its almost a dead stop to get around in any 00 systems. even if i am a member of a alliance its still to easy to find me in a 00 system as there is a lot more traffic now then in the past so risk is a lot higher.. like most of us we only have so much time in life to do this game.. so no we are not rich or at lest the pvper are not anyway!
Apoctasy The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2009.02.10 00:28:00 - [118] Originally by: McTard I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. /signed
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2009.02.10 01:00:00 - [119] If we're all too rich then they need to do something about static income sources like the high end moons.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.10 01:09:00 - [120] You can't 'hurt' the truly wealthy in EVE. Seriously. Kill a 150mil T2 HAC of a player with billions in the bank? It's pocket change. But with T3, well thats slightly different. Its a slight blow to their overall progression, not much admitedly, but a hit none the less. Continually hit a player and youre starting to inflict noticeable harm. CCP could of course just nerf wealth generation - but actually thats counter productive, as it hits the poorer player as hard, possibly harder, than the wealthy player. But skill points quite nicely levels the playing field. I think its probably the right move. C.

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