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McTard	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:13:00 - [1] So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness?
Martin Mckenna coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:14:00 - [2] If everyone was mega mega rich then that would reflect in ship prices. So I realy doubt this argument holds up at any level.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:16:00 - [3] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/02/2009 01:17:10 At this point in time it's everything I can do just to sc**** the ISK together for my PLEX each month. I'm not rich in any way shape or form. My goal is to earn enough to pay the PLEX and have a bit of PvP fun each week. Oh, Martin - ship prices are low due to oversupply, not due to paucity of ISK.
Yeshua Christ	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:17:00 - [4] I believe he was speaking of ease of getting lots of isk, unlike 3 or 4 years ago when it took awhile to amass the money for a BS for example, and this is true. I can get BSes much easier today than I could back in 05. Back then cruiser losses really hurt my wallet.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:18:00 - [5] I wouldn't define myself as too rich, there are 2-3 things I still can't afford.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:19:00 - [6] T1 losses mean little now. T2 losses hurt because the base cost covered by insurance doesn't come close to the ship's market value. T3 losses will hurt because of skill loss (I guess it's one level off a random T3 skill or something... I really only skimmed the thread about it.) I'm fairly content with those situations as they exist now. The built-in limiting factors on T2 and T3 ensure that T2/3 doesn't become the baseline standard for what people fly if they want to consider themselves respectable players.
McTard	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:23:00 - [7] Edited by: McTard on 09/02/2009 01:25:52 Originally by: Yeshua Christ I believe he was speaking of ease of getting lots of isk, unlike 3 or 4 years ago when it took awhile to amass the money for a BS for example, and this is true. I can get BSes much easier today than I could back in 05. Back then cruiser losses really hurt my wallet. You were also younger, had less sp, and the market likely sucked back then due to a vastly smaller player base. If he believes we get isk too fast/easy he's admitting to some kinda game risk imballance and thinks T3 and skill loss might help offset that. I think it's wrong. Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. That aint rich, most people arent rich.
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:27:00 - [8] Originally by: McTard Originally by: Yeshua Christ I believe he was speaking of ease of getting lots of isk, unlike 3 or 4 years ago when it took awhile to amass the money for a BS for example, and this is true. I can get BSes much easier today than I could back in 05. Back then cruiser losses really hurt my wallet. You were also younger, had less sp, and the market likely sucked back then due to a vastly smaller player base. If he believes we get isk too fast/easy he's admitting to some kinda game imballance and thinks T3 and skill loss might help offset that. I think it's wrong. Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. That aint rich, most people arent rich. No back then trit was 1 isk per unit, the best miner was an apoc and level 3 missions weren't more profitable then mining (and level 4 agents weren't around).
Yeshua Christ	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:27:00 - [9] Originally by: McTard Originally by: Yeshua Christ I believe he was speaking of ease of getting lots of isk, unlike 3 or 4 years ago when it took awhile to amass the money for a BS for example, and this is true. I can get BSes much easier today than I could back in 05. Back then cruiser losses really hurt my wallet. You were also younger, had less sp, and the market likely sucked back then due to a vastly smaller player base. If he believes we get isk too fast/easy he's admitting to some kinda game imballance and thinks T3 and skill loss might help offset that. I think it's wrong. Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. That aint rich, most people arent rich. This is true. The devs have also said that they don't want T3 to just up and replace T2 and I see this as a solid way of doing that because of the additional risk. They had to balance it out somehow otherwise everone would just switch to T3 asap.
Gunzoid Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:28:00 - [10] Posting to deny I'm rich.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:29:00 - [11] They don't do anything about farmed static plexes in nullsec. They don't listen to insurance suggestions. They don't listen to about 50 other suggestions that'd reduce isk ingame. They employed an ecomonist so what the hell is he doing? Now they are complaining about it and going to make us pay with their inaction for T3, though it might not turn out to be such a bad idea, waiting and seeing on this one.
Kendrix Arathan Minmatar N00bs With Guns	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:34:00 - [12] Originally by: McTard Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. That aint rich, most people arent rich. do you like only know people in Kenny pet corps? if you can't afford to loose a t2 fitted BS, your doing something wrong, or should not be flying them yet... Originally by: StevieSG Verone looks like data from star trek. that is all.
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:34:00 - [13] Posting to confirm you're all too rich. Please send me some money so I can pvp. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page "Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
Dotard Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:39:00 - [14] Confirming everyone, other than me, is way to rich. Please send all your isk to McTard and he will ensure it gets evenly distributed umong all players of EvE.
McTard	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:45:00 - [15] Edited by: McTard on 09/02/2009 01:45:45 Originally by: Dotard Confirming everyone, other than me, is way to rich. Please send all your isk to McTard and he will ensure it gets evenly distributed umong all players of EvE. Excellent suggestion. I will even cease further McTard posts untill my money runs out again. Quote: They don't do anything about farmed static plexes in nullsec. They don't listen to insurance suggestions. They don't listen to about 50 other suggestions that'd reduce isk ingame. They employed an ecomonist so what the hell is he doing? Now they are complaining about it and going to make us pay with their inaction for T3, though it might not turn out to be such a bad idea, waiting and seeing on this one. Good points tbh.
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.02.09 01:51:00 - [16] Dont send them money, send ME money. I can verify that i never log onto this character, therefore sending me money will effectively remove that isk from the game, permanently. Fight inflation! Money sent to me is for the betterment of all
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:00:00 - [17] This statement was ridiculous, the dev in question probably wasn't 100% serious or he's out of touch. Today making isk is much harder than before for many professions. Industrialists for example operate only a few % over mineral costs, t2 production lost a lot of its profitability with invention. The maybe most popular source of income for the average player are missions. Because of lp devaluation (they are worth around 25-30% of what they were worth 2-3 years ago) even the missionrunners make less. Ofc. there are some people who accumulated huge amounts of isk in the course of the last 5 years, but the average player with less than a year gametime will most likely be poorer than the average player with less than a year gametime 2 years ago.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:05:00 - [18] I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:17:00 - [19] If you know what you're doing, making ISK is laughably easy. Even T1 industry in trade hubs runs good profit margins - if you know what you're doing.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:17:00 - [20] I'm sure for most people their balance is right though, they have to "grind" just long enough to get the isk to get the shiny ship in order to use it to blow someone else up on the weekend. If they want to make T3 an ultra-luxury item for ever they're dreaming, I hope. It's called advancement. Steady, incremental and (sometimes) visible. What's the point of playing for three years if you're going to do the same thing al.. oh wait.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. I "only" started in 2005, so never got the feeling for 03-04, but a little comparison.. ..when me and my brother started, we both wanted in a battlecruiser. For Amarr, that meant the Prophecy. It cost craploads on the market, and doing the maths on how long time it would take to rat (missioning wasn't profitable), we found out it was actually faster to buy a BPC, mine the minerals ourselves, and have a corpmate build it. I trained Amarr Industrial 1 (still got that at that level btw), he trained basic barge. He mined, I hauled. We split the income brotherly, and after a few weeks we could proudly build us two Prophecies. Today you just run the tutorial, bam, 2mil+. Go run a few level 1's, progress to 2's. Train salvage. Bam, day one you have 30mil to buy yourself a BC, alot cheaper than you can build it for anyway. Few days more training and you drive it in level 3's, then you can start the slow learning grind while you mix in some shorter combat skills, and reap in a couple of tens a mil a day. Hard today?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:20:00 - [22] 100 mil makes me feel uncomfortable and I usually spend it quite quickly......
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Martin Mckenna If everyone was mega mega rich then that would reflect in ship prices. So I realy doubt this argument holds up at any level. Prices are only affected by cash supplies if there is a limited supply. For most items, supply outstrips demand significantly. Hence the reason there are thousands of units of most items on the market. If you look at items that have a very low supply you can see when this comes into play. Such as with many types of officer mods, which costs hundreds of millions of isk, if not billions. They cost so much because they are very rare and the players with big bucks are willing to shell out to put them on faction fitted ships. Also with a lot of tech2 rigs. Tech2 salvage supply is very low, so tech2 rigs are very expensive, also hundreds of millions of isk. Hammerhead didn't say everyone was rich. He said there are a lot rich players who aren't really affected by a ship loss. In regards to tech2 fitted ships, I would say this is true. I think this balances things out between rich players and regular players. Instead of ships being an isk sink, they will be a time sink.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron snip Exactly what he said.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. This, back in 2003 you had to mine like mad at least a week, to get your first T1 cruiser, not even speaking of how long it took to get the ISK for a battleship (the insurance itself was even hard to afford). And even when you finally had your battleship it still took a long time to get the money for replacement ships, unlike today where you can easily get the money for a Battleship (including rigs and fitting) within 1 day.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:46:00 - [26] I'm also poor
Aeo IV Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:47:00 - [27] What exactly is rich?
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:48:00 - [28] I have no isk dev is a idiot :(
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:52:00 - [29] Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. right but you are in kenzoku! oh wait, I ran a level 4 in about 20 mins and made around 20million
Paul Morphy	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/02/2009 01:17:10 At this point in time it's everything I can do just to sc**** the ISK together for my PLEX each month. I'm not rich in any way shape or form. My goal is to earn enough to pay the PLEX and have a bit of PvP fun each week. Oh, Martin - ship prices are low due to oversupply, not due to paucity of ISK. You said "scr.ape".
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:58:00 - [31] if i drop under 200m i start crying about how poor i am >.< If i go above about 250m i buy something shiny, generally setting me back below 200m :\ yep, im poor.
Erica 'cowpig'Lafehr	Posted - 2009.02.09 03:11:00 - [32] Edited by: Erica ''cowpig''Lafehr on 09/02/2009 03:12:03 I heard the dev too as I was listening. I believe what he meant was that now a days players have much more wealth (isk) than ever before in the history of the game. Therefore, simply making T3 ships expensive should not be the only 'hit' a player takes as it is quite easy to purchase expensive ships and items for so many players. So to make T3 something more of a challenge than just a lot of isk needed to buy they decided to have a player drop one (1), not five (5) skill levels should they get blown up in the T3 ship. So if you have a particular races' ship skill trained to lvl 4 and you get blown up in that races' T3 ship you will drop from lvl 4 to lvl 3. There will not be any other skills affected other than the skills needed to fly the T3 ships. And all the T3 ship skills are Rank 1. I may be wrong but I am pretty sure he said you drop one level but at a rank one skill the dev said it only takes like 5 days to train up anyhow to lvl 5. And remember they said, as of now, that if you eject from the T3 ship prior to it exploding you will not lose the skill level. Thus the dev turning to Verone during the session as a pirate and discussing the ransom option that is created. Basically eject and save you skill level or don't and lose both the ship and skills.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.09 03:12:00 - [33] This is just further evidence that CCP is completely out of touch with the vast majority of the players in this game. I've been PVP'ing for several years now, and I can count on one hand the amount of people I know in game that don't have to worry about ISK. So now all of us uber rich guys (lol) not only get to lose ISK from these ridiculously expensive ships but we get to lose skill training time that it took to fly them too! YAY!
Kiay Stryx Gallente Phoenix Mandate	Posted - 2009.02.09 03:19:00 - [34] Maybe all these "Hardcore" PvPers need to reconsider their ethos on industry is for care bears only. Maybe then they would be able to manufacture ships for their PvP at a more reasonable price. Using insurance to cover the costs of production, you can offer your members a BS for the cost of insurance. ~Stryx
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.09 03:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Kiay Stryx Maybe all these "Hardcore" PvPers need to reconsider their ethos on industry is for care bears only. Maybe then they would be able to manufacture ships for their PvP at a more reasonable price. Using insurance to cover the costs of production, you can offer your members a BS for the cost of insurance. ~Stryx That's a difference between younger and older alliances. Older alliances usually have an industrial backbone, even when they are almost exclusively PvPing. Younger alliances just scream for moons, and hope the alliance leadership will sort out a replacement program. Another reason is that the industrial sector has issues when it comes to mining, so almost all that are involved in it today, are building or inventing. Hell, even heavy PvP corps used to run a regular (weekly, bi-weekly, montly) mining op where those who couldn't mind at least hauled. Havn't seen that in years now.
ghost st	Posted - 2009.02.09 03:41:00 - [36] Its not really the amount of isk you make, thats has been roughly the same since i started playing. But the prices of everything have been plummeting, making it more affordable. But the overall amount of isk is much, much higher than back then. And that isk has to be going somewhere, while you personally may not have more isk than back then, its got to go somewhere.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.09 03:48:00 - [37] considering you make make enough to buy a battleship in one day with fitting just from mission running isk is to easy to come by i havnt made money in months due to the fact is that everytime my battleship died i get the insurance from it so i just cycle the action , my funds are droper lower eadch time but i have only lost but then again i have only lost 19 ships in the last 4 months and 3/4 of those were cruiser sized. i would agree on the part that from the older days isk is to easily available
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:02:00 - [38] Comfirming I'm the one with too much isk. And no you can't have any so go make your own isk the old fashioned way and earn it. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
W3370Pi4 Caldari Lords Of Kaos	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:03:00 - [39] sometimes it's just better to laugh at ccp , because crying won't help.... _______ Join the "Legit Trading" Channel ◘Monitored WTB◘WTA◘WTT◘WTS◘Contracts◘Trade ADs◘◘ Scam free channel◘
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:08:00 - [40] Originally by: Zeba Comfirming I'm the one with too much isk. And no you can't have any so go make your own isk the old fashioned way and earn it. i will by earning it off you
OffBeaT Caldari LEGI0N	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:10:00 - [41] oh yea, just all kinds of coin here! not!
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Armoured C Originally by: Zeba Comfirming I'm the one with too much isk. And no you can't have any so go make your own isk the old fashioned way and earn it. i will by earning it off you But I'm not old fashioned.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Zeba ...go make your own isk the old fashioned way... But...I don't want to sell myself on the street corner.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Zeba ...go make your own isk the old fashioned way... But...I don't want to sell myself on the street corner. Nonono, old fashined way not worlds oldest profession.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:19:00 - [45] I've saved about 500mil up in the last 3 months... 300mil of that from insurance on battleships that I went and lost horribly. I'm always broke and can barely buy a HAC most times
Unero Sexy Caldari K. M. A. Enterprise Anarchy.	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:24:00 - [46] Edited by: Unero Sexy on 09/02/2009 04:25:58 Based on how the coming expansion, I am going to decide whether to keep playing Eve or not. Its way too crowded these days. We need more systems - in Empire, in low sec and 0.0 My other issue is Premium-lite. I use classic mode because its less laggy for my system. I am waiting to test this too. Not sure if worm holes will fix this or not. Lets see. As for being rich, I had 3 Hulk pilots once. But the game is so rigged against miners in small corps that there is no point. Nowadays I just PvP or run missions. PS: All my stuff goes to my friends in the game if I quit.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:25:00 - [47] The fact GTC trading exist makes in-game wealth.. well an interesting concept. I'd be richer in game if they didn't cost so much though
Muhir Yasen	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:28:00 - [48] Edited by: Muhir Yasen on 09/02/2009 04:29:47 I took a break from the game because i started taking it way too seriously. I was co-CEO of a small pirate corporation that started having some internal drama and schisms. However I decided not to quit EVE completely - just play solo for a while and do carebear stuff. After 1.5 years of carebearing I decided to come back into pvp. So I liquidated everything and calculated that while I was on my extended sabbatical into carebear land, I was making about 580 million ISK/day. Grand total I made was over 300 billion ISK. I was playing about 2-3 hours a day, in high sec empire, soloing pretty much, and all connections I had made I made while I was at it not before. Based on my experience ISK is too easy to make. But now that i'm back pvping i see players all around just grinding missions form one loss to the next. Which type of player you are really depends on how much you enjoy carebearing. I like pvp but I also like making ISK - it is all part of the game for me. Some people hate carebearing. Naturally they don't put much effort into it, don't plan, don't set long term goals on how to become rich, and blow through any ISK they make. These kind of players shall forever have a few hundred mil in wallet.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:40:00 - [49] well... a t2 fitted ship used to mean something. cap recharger for 20mil+... yummy best-named stuff circled around that, sometimes more sometimes less, blah. and income was lower to boot. hulks went for up to 600mil in the "end". one can define wealth just via amount-of-isk. for others it's income (usually those that may have a lot of isk but keep it working) but one way or another, losing stuff has mostly become cheaper - people can buy more/better stuff with the same amount of isk. i can wreck three scimitars a day now instead of one like back then. shooting hulks has replaced joy with necessity -.-
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:42:00 - [50] Originally by: W3370Pi4 sometimes it's just better to laugh at ccp , because crying won't help.... ..almost snatched at sig. Awsome material.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:44:00 - [51] It -is- too easy to make ISK. The reason people claim to be poor is because they don't like spending time making ISK, because it's not as fun as PVPing, and because people ONLY fit t2 and refuse to fly cheap (How many t1 cruisers/frigs piloted by non-noobs do you see?) People then go, take these ships and get them blown up for no real reason. CCP's goals are: -PVP isn't PVP just for PVP's sake, PVP instead as something to protect your income source. Straight from CCP Dionysus. CCP Zulupark also mentioned that the primary income source for combat pilot (Hisec missions )were imbalanced. I believe CCP's goal is that people PVP not just forthelulz but for territory and such, even in lowsec. -Make PVE more interesting. They're improving the AI and trying to make PVE interesting as well (through better mission arcs, improved AI, etc), so it's not so incredibly boring and grindy. I think what they mean by "Too right" is that having low ISK just means you need to go back and grind a bit in hisec for a few hours to rebuy your ship of choice. I think they want to change it according to what I said above so that it's not such a grind, and it's not just mindless grindtime since you'd be doing it out of hisec **** If my interpretation of CCP's goals and changes is incorrect, CCP, please feel free to bow before me and apologize for making your intents not as clear as they should be. Don't worry, I'll forgive you.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:45:00 - [52] I do agree that Eve is too rich as a whole. I hear of the old days when buying a battleship wasn't some small matter. That sounds nice to me instead of everyone having a couple battleships in their hangar.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:53:00 - [53] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 09/02/2009 04:55:46 Originally by: Kahega Amielden -PVP isn't PVP just for PVP's sake, PVP instead as something to protect your income source. Straight from CCP Dionysus. CCP Zulupark also mentioned that the primary income source for combat pilot (Hisec missions )were imbalanced. I believe CCP's goal is that people PVP not just forthelulz but for territory and such, even in lowsec. This may be the intent but there isn't a single thing that suggests any attempt to put it into practice outside of nullsec. Not even FW rewards are based on PvP. If they have plans to remedy this it'd be in their best interest to get the ball rolling prior to the boxed release. I bet a lot of those new players aren't going to like having their cozy world shaken up on them six months after joining. Fix the problem now and you're only limited to the *****ing of the current playerbase.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:59:00 - [54] Originally by: Kahega Amielden -PVP isn't PVP just for PVP's sake, PVP instead as something to protect your income source. Straight from CCP Dionysus. CCP Zulupark also mentioned that the primary income source for combat pilot (Hisec missions )were imbalanced. I believe CCP's goal is that people PVP not just forthelulz but for territory and such, even in lowsec. I totally agree with this. One of the main reasons I play Eve is because PvP is mostly for a reason, not just for lulz. In other games, people "do PvP", while in Eve, people have real wars for real reasons: fighting over resources, territory, politics, etc. It should have a point, in other words, not just be something to do because one is a "PvPer". Another point is that I think that PvE combat should be more like PvP, except that you're fighting AI bots instead of real players. The tactics and fittings should be similar. This would help bridge the gap between the two. I'm sure most exclusive mission runners will stay exclusive mission-runners, but there should be less of a tactical/fitting rift between the two types of combat. There are plenty of games where the whole point is just shooting at other players for no real reason. I have no interest in PvP for PvP's sake in Eve. I like my Eve PvP with a purpose--with a goal.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:03:00 - [55] Well, PvPers used to have plenty of work in industrial corporations, protecting their miners. It's not needed anymore. Go figure how that's related/affecting mining/PvP.
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:05:00 - [56] Quote: -PVP isn't PVP just for PVP's sake, PVP instead as something to protect your income source. And that's where PvP begins to degenerate in varying degrees to unfun for most people. Helping your Alliance protect assets (POS, blobs) and prosecute wars (POS, blobs) is just as much an annoying grind as anything in the game for everyone but a few FC's and Directors.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:16:00 - [57] When you look at the evolution of things over time, he is right. 2yrs ago you would start with 100k sp and you would have been 2 weeks away from using t2 small guns/launchers and forget about affording them. No invention meant that t2 was expensive, and low-end faction would be a new level of expensive above that. Nowadays, you start and in under 1d you can use t2 guns small. You can afford t2 guns small from day one, if you do some missions/whatever. So now, the new 't2' is faction; you can get a cnr for 260m, a navy mega for 270m and meta 9 eanm's - amarr navy/db/ts, are 3-4 times lower in price than what they used to be because of LP shop. We are indeed too rich, and t3 will be the new level above normal, low-end faction that comes from belt rats / LP shop. As far as the SP loss; train to level 3 and stick to ships that are made for a specific task that cannot be fullfilled by another faction/t2/t1 ship. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:27:00 - [58] between my 3 characters I have 500 mil and that's gonna quickly dissappear once I buy my pvp alt a bs or two. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
McTard	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:27:00 - [59] I suppose that all this means we will see a massive Empire missioning nerf coming in M10 or soon after, thinly disguised as a "Massive Mission AI boost! More mission love and exciting new things to do!" Prepare the Wambulance then.
Persephone Starsider Caldari Starsider Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:28:00 - [60] I tried Eve Online close to launch and it was a lot easier to safely make ISK. I recently started playing again and am amazed by the number of exploiters, suicide gankers, & grievers. Every day I see new players falling victim to can tippers or suicide gankers(in asteroid belts).
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:31:00 - [61] My 500 mil isk wallet begs to disagree.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.09 05:38:00 - [62] Originally by: Sader Rykane My 500 mil isk wallet begs to disagree. Up until now I don't think anyone has actually posted their opinion on what rich is ITT.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.09 06:03:00 - [63] Quote: This may be the intent but there isn't a single thing that suggests any attempt to put it into practice outside of nullsec. Not even FW rewards are based on PvP. If they have plans to remedy this it'd be in their best interest to get the ball rolling prior to the boxed release. I bet a lot of those new players aren't going to like having their cozy world shaken up on them six months after joining. Fix the problem now and you're only limited to the ***ing of the current playerbase. FW's goal was separate. FW is meant to take people who normally shy away from PVP and get them into it. Also, I believe they mentioned that FW would be expanded at a later date, possibly with rank rewards and such. Anyway, the "PVP is what you do to protect your income" thing was from CCP Dionysus in response to a suggestion that PVP be more profitable (via increased loot). Who knows. CCP said that Apocrypha is the most feature-heavy expansion ever released, meaning there's quite a lot of stuff that could be in the expansion. Quote:** Helping your Alliance protect assets (POS, blobs) and prosecute wars (POS, blobs) is just as much an annoying grind as anything in the game for everyone but a few FC's and Directors. Hint: Meaningful PVP does not need to take the form of POS blobwarfare
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.09 06:03:00 - [64] Originally by: Sader Rykane My 500 mil isk wallet begs to disagree. That wallet should not be begging. Obviously it is a scammer. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2009.02.09 06:03:00 - [65] Rich: afk earnings ( intrest in IPOs, market sales, research) pay for all your GTC playtime, and active playing (missioning, LPs, active markting) earns extra, and your wallet bottoms out at say 1-2 billion. You can even afford officer gear for personal use. You can replace losses even without insurance. How many are in this bracket?
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.02.09 06:17:00 - [66] Confirming I am filthy rich (relative to 90% of the rest of you). And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
McTard	Posted - 2009.02.09 06:36:00 - [67] Quote: Hint: Meaningful PVP does not need to take the form of POS blobwarfare Tell that to the current Sov and POS mechanics.
Gizmo69	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Yeshua Christ I believe he was speaking of ease of getting lots of isk, unlike 3 or 4 years ago when it took awhile to amass the money for a BS for example, and this is true. I can get BSes much easier today than I could back in 05. Back then cruiser losses really hurt my wallet. Hm, and you don't think that could have to do with the fact that you probably have a little better possibility to earn ISK? I mean since 2005 I guess you have had time to train your skills so you have better ships, better skills and better modules/rigs even. So you can run lvl 4 or perhaps even lvl 5 missions as an example? I had a really hard time in the begining of the game to earn ISK. It really took alot of time and effort running lvl 1 missions getting like maybe 10000 isk for it. So, unless they have made some major changes to this part it is stil hard in the begining of the game to get started and earn some good ISK.
Aylara	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:55:00 - [69] If the thinks that getting ISK is too easy for us PVP-ers, he should complain to his boss about the GTC trading then. Now, that's a way to get stupidly rich with out of the game factors. But i don't see that happening.
Marie Duvolle	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:59:00 - [70] It's too easy to make money in PVE, I think that's what he meant. Being rich is just a reflection of your effort to make money, some people have it as a goal and therefore are rich and others don't and can't be bothered. It should be more difficult to make isk in a pure PVE environment as they're no risk involved, just time invested. Don't stir the hornet's nest
Sam Wintchester	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:07:00 - [71] maybe older players but for new players is very difficult to make isk
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:09:00 - [72] I'm afraid you have the flu. We're going to have to take one of your legs. What? Well, to make sure you aren't walking around putting snot on things, of course. ---- ≡v≡
Sheriff Togany	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:12:00 - [73] TBH I have no idea what amount of ISK would make someone "rich". I would guess that someone with several hundred billions of ISK (and upwards, obviously) would be considered rich. Ofc one could argue that someone with 76 billion shouldn't be considered rich then? Well, heck, I have no idea. Would be interesting to know as to how many people fall under certain categories in regard of their wealth. Say: 1T+ 100B-1T 10B-100B 0-10B
DrCommandoPantyLiner	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:17:00 - [74] personally i make alot of mon ey each month thruy minibng/invention n exploration about 3bil a amonthish if u cant make isk, ur stupid
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:22:00 - [75] I think the ability to make money in this game is just about right, and tends to reflect real-life quite well. When you haven't got money, it's quite difficult to make money, but when you have plenty, it's very easy to make more. I suspect those people who think it is too easy have hit that point, and to them, it appears effortless, because they are able to trade or manufacture in such volumes. It would be interesting to see where this point is, as I suspect the majority of players are quite a way below it. Also, if people have way too much money, why does PVP usually end up with one side running away? If they had too much money, surely they would be far more likely to fight to the death, as losing the ship and pod would have much less of a penalty. They can't be losing too many ships, otherwise the demand would outstrip the supply and therefore forcing prices up, and we all know pricess have dropped because supply greatly outstrips demand at this moment. I would say that most of the pointers indicate that people in the game are generally poor, and do not have enough ISK. If they were rich, then prices would be much higher. That's how markets work.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:35:00 - [76] I have about 1,9b in liquid isk and another 6-7 locked up in assets. I might consider myself rich, but seriously, some heavy PvPing and that would quickly be reduced (if I was crap at PvP that is). Looking at the market forums, I can say that my assets are peanuts compared to the trading giants that have 10-20 billions flowing thru their wallets on a regurlar basis... ----- EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:41:00 - [77] Edited by: Ratchman on 09/02/2009 10:44:30 Originally by: DrCommandoPantyLiner personally i make alot of mon ey each month thruy minibng/invention n exploration about 3bil a amonthish if u cant make isk, ur stupid Please impart your business wisdom on the rest of us, such as what exactly you do to earn 3 billion a month. No-one has said they can't make ISK, it's just that some people are claiming it is too easy. However, unless people explain the details of why they find it so easy to make money, it remains a redundant argument, and people are not going to reveal their money-making techniques, because the profitability of any scheme depends of how many people are doing it. This is why in real-life, most of the people who make serious money, tend to keep their mouths shut. So unless your willing to reveal your secrets, the claim you make is unverifiable (and therefore cannot be used to backup your argument), and you can't reveal it for fear that the majority of people will jump on the bandwagon and damage your profits. And proof that you possess the cash is not enough, because it is the method by which it is acquired that is debated, and not the quantity itself. Unverifiable claims mixed with calling people who make less than you 'stupid' does sound like the traits of a troll, or at least an unwise statement to make.
Aylara	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:44:00 - [78] I'll tell you why. He's just PVE-ing, so no ship and equipment losses for him.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:45:00 - [79] If you have been playing for 1 year or more, you are in general very rich in game. And loosing T2 ships, even faction shipos means nada. You just buy a new one. T3 will make you loose time invested in these ships, not much, pssibly 1 day at most if you play it smart. I think its a decent move, and it makes T3 as a more of late game ship, I just hope the don't wtfpwn everything :P
Steve Celeste Caldari Paxton Industries	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:52:00 - [80] And i thought Devs were supposed to be programming?
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:05:00 - [81] 5 year old character here and i'm not rich for sure... Prolly the dyspo guys being overly rich... :/
TimMc Gallente Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:26:00 - [82] Am in a commie corp, isk does not matter.
Bethulsunamen	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:31:00 - [83] Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? Thats because EVE is run by the tens of billions-rich characters with 5 seperate accounts.
Deira Lenia Carebear Evolution	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:42:00 - [84] It depends on what you qualify rich at. Istvaan Whatevertherestwas from GHSC has close to 500b My trade acc is currently floating around 450b (incl order assets) This char has about 10m My pvp char is on 211.348.573.771,94 I dont think im rich. I could buy any item in the game, but i dont qualify as rich. Why? Because if i buy anything, ill become even less rich. Which means ill never be rich. To me being rich means you can buy anything expencive multiple times without seeing a big dent in your wallet. which for me personaly would mean i'd need a wallet that contains 5T. A noobie could buy a million frigates without seeing his wallet dent with 500m probably. So you could say hes rich. It's not that ISK is easy to get in eve, as it is easy to get isk. It's that isk gets spend too easy. People buy stuff when they could not really afford it, people loan isk out, people think that their ship will stay alive long enough. I dont spend isk, and because of that, ill be rich one day.
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:50:00 - [85] I lost most of my ISK in Factional Warfare, and when I lost a destroyer in 0.0 it hurt as there was no replacement ship in any of the outposts that had public docking rights. --- NEW MOVIE!
Harvestor's Soul	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:53:00 - [86] Pirate main character, hauler/scout alt (this be the alt btw). Nearly all my income comes from pvp, have about a 25-1 kill/death ratio and I barely make enough to replace lost ships. Been pirating over 2 months now, overall I've broken even within about 10M isk. I fly cheap stuff btw, t1 ships, straight t2 mods and no faction gear. Don't even use rigs 3/4's of the time. The most isk and assets I ever had worked out to maybe 1B but it just doesn't matter. What matters is having fun, as long as I have a rifter and a warp scrambler I think I'm good to go. I do not qualify as rich .
Dracoknight	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:56:00 - [87] Well, i am merly over 2 mill skillpoints and i am one of those lvl 2 mission runners.... So after that intro i can say that ISK in numbers is easy to come by, but ISK in worth... like getting T2 equipment and ships is perhaps easy to save up to if you are lucky with no losses... the hard part to gain ISK is when you start getting losses; if you going to jump in a fully fitted T2 or Faction more than once per week then you will see that ISK isnt that easy after all... The Dev is a "eliteist" because HE is in a corp that pay his bills, doesnt mean everyone have...
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:59:00 - [88] Somehow this forum alt is in the possession of 50 shares of a one man corporation. So far it has earned me around 600isk in dividends. Going to be a somebody one day!
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:09:00 - [89] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 09/02/2009 12:10:35 if you are doing pvp seriously and actually have balls to fight even if the chance is high that you may die, you will never be rich unless you have a carebear trading/manufacturing alt or a industrial backbone corp in your alliance giving you stuff, thats why I never had more than 1b isk, I actually fight people, instead of running away like a chicken crying for moma while sitting docked in station or even better crying for the blob waiting to warp in with their 50 ships to kill a single cruiser also being rich does not always mean, having a crapload of iskies and assets, being rich could also mean having powerful allies, friends that dont betray you, fun at pvping and so on... in short, maybe I die sometimes and loose assets but I have fun in the game that I can share with my mates, thus I consider myself as somehow rich.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:50:00 - [90] Edited by: Andrue on 09/02/2009 12:56:04 Edited by: Andrue on 09/02/2009 12:51:40 I don't think he's right but I don't think it matters anyway. Eve is-at it's heart-supposed to be a combat oriented game. If people can't afford to lose their ships they won't fight. It's a balancing act, to be sure, but the number of people that like to inflict pain by taking away someone else' toy is always going to be less than the number of people that just want to have fun and not suffer too much. That's human nature. A lot of Eve's subscriber have enough risk and stress in RL. We don't need to pay a subscription to get even more of it. Edit:As for rich..meh. I've been playing nearly 5 years now (next week is the anniversary I think) and I only have 12bil+ships/mods/junk. Mostly I've just been careful and sensible. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:58:00 - [91] Originally by: Deira Lenia It depends on what you qualify rich at. Istvaan Whatevertherestwas from GHSC has close to 500b My trade acc is currently floating around 450b (incl order assets) This char has about 10m My pvp char is on 211.348.573.771,94 I dont think im rich. I could buy any item in the game, but i dont qualify as rich. Why? Because if i buy anything, ill become even less rich. Which means ill never be rich. It's Shogaatsu, god damnit. If I were to quantify the meaning of "rich" in Eve Online, I wouldn't call it any specific number. To me, rich is the point when you have enough money, for money not to matter anymore.
cpt Mark	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:00:00 - [92] How rich is rich? I have 350 Mill in assets + capital. That to me is okay.
Triss S'Jet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:33:00 - [93] I fail at being rich - 3 years, 300mil in my wallet and dropping very fast due to me getting popped every day.
Janni Ratkaainen	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:41:00 - [94] the last 50 odd million i spent came from corp members and corp funds... since we took down out POSs i have had no income. and killing people doesn't turn much profit.
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:47:00 - [95] Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 09/02/2009 13:47:56 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. I "only" started in 2005, so never got the feeling for 03-04, but a little comparison.. ..when me and my brother started, we both wanted in a battlecruiser. For Amarr, that meant the Prophecy. It cost craploads on the market, and doing the maths on how long time it would take to rat (missioning wasn't profitable), we found out it was actually faster to buy a BPC, mine the minerals ourselves, and have a corpmate build it. I trained Amarr Industrial 1 (still got that at that level btw), he trained basic barge. He mined, I hauled. We split the income brotherly, and after a few weeks we could proudly build us two Prophecies. Today you just run the tutorial, bam, 2mil+. Go run a few level 1's, progress to 2's. Train salvage. Bam, day one you have 30mil to buy yourself a BC, alot cheaper than you can build it for anyway. Few days more training and you drive it in level 3's, then you can start the slow learning grind while you mix in some shorter combat skills, and reap in a couple of tens a mil a day. Hard today? That's actually a really cool story. Brotherly love. <3. Remove Insurance, and it'll make things a lot better. Edit: it'll make losses hurt more, but it won't make things any cheaper/more expensive.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:55:00 - [96] WTB: 2x Nyx 1x Leviathan 20x Revelations Faction stuff, all you can send. Please send contracts this way oh wait...
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:11:00 - [97] Originally by: McTard If he believes we get isk too fast/easy he's admitting to some kinda game risk imballance and thinks T3 and skill loss might help offset that. I think it's wrong. Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. That aint rich, most people arent rich. Confirming the eternal truth to this statement. EVE history t2 precisions
GoGo Rens	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:22:00 - [98] The reason most more modern games have gone away from exp loss is because it was always so unpopular. In a game like eve where you have no way of grinding your lost exp back up it is an even worse idea to do this. EVen in a game like the original Everquest the you lost exp when you died but in the end they introduced a spell that would reduce the exp you lost by up to 96% why? because everybody hated the loss to much and it was losing customers. I realy feel if they do this people will hate the loss so much it will just cause people to leave the game or whinge and whinge until it is changed. CCP should learn from other games history and realise that exp loss is never a good idea. I read oh you only lose 5 days worth , what if you die 3 times a week. well err you gonna be constantly going backwards with no way within the game mechanics to off set it with grinding. exp didnt work in grindable exp games and it certainly wont in a non grindable exp game.
agent apple Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:27:00 - [99] Here's an idea... Stop selling isk
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:37:00 - [100] Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? I had to borrow 120m from a m8 for a new ship :(
Daoi Sith	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:41:00 - [101] Originally by: Kahega Amielden It -is- too easy to make ISK. The reason people claim to be poor is because they don't like spending time making ISK, because it's not as fun as PVPing, and because people ONLY fit t2 and refuse to fly cheap (How many t1 cruisers/frigs piloted by non-noobs do you see?) People then go, take these ships and get them blown up for no real reason. CCP's goals are: -PVP isn't PVP just for PVP's sake, PVP instead as something to protect your income source. Straight from CCP Dionysus. CCP Zulupark also mentioned that the primary income source for combat pilot (Hisec missions )were imbalanced. I believe CCP's goal is that people PVP not just forthelulz but for territory and such, even in lowsec. -Make PVE more interesting. They're improving the AI and trying to make PVE interesting as well (through better mission arcs, improved AI, etc), so it's not so incredibly boring and grindy. I think what they mean by "Too right" is that having low ISK just means you need to go back and grind a bit in hisec for a few hours to rebuy your ship of choice. I think they want to change it according to what I said above so that it's not such a grind, and it's not just mindless grindtime since you'd be doing it out of hisec **** If my interpretation of CCP's goals and changes is incorrect, CCP, please feel free to bow before me and apologize for making your intents not as clear as they should be. Don't worry, I'll forgive you. people play to have fun, not to grind 80% of their time away. anyone that puts their mind to it can make isk but it requires so much time that the game loses its appeal. many have found a balance between how poor they are willing to be and how much they are willing to grind. the rich ones use GTC (there are WAY more of these than admit it) or are part of an alliance with moons and resources that most don't have. character farming is another source of isk. look at the volume of posts in the gtc and bazaar forums. players are doing just about everything they can to avoid grinding BECAUSE ITS NOT FUN. CCP can think whatever they want about ISK and how easy it is. when the game is no longer fun, I will stop playing.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:44:00 - [102] Edited by: TraininVain on 09/02/2009 16:47:02 Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? I'm not too rich. I have ISK for my PVP ships and that's what I find fun in EVE. Missions are OK but I wouldn't have the patience to say... grind twice as much ISK as I do now. I wouldn't have the patience for mining. Really. I'd give up and play something easier. Maybe it's too easy to do if you're one of these weird ****ers who'll play a MMO like a second job but I don't have the energy for that. It's just not fun. I suspect that the people who do get something out of it beyond the ISK anyway. Yeah, I'm lazy. It's a videogame though.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:48:00 - [103] Originally by: McTard So the Dev on EVE TV (tourney deal) said "everyone is too rich, ISK is too easy to make so when people lose ships it means nothing." Or something very close to that effect. Then he went on to talk about the (imo wrong headed and out of touch) potential character sp loss mechanic probably coming to T3. I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? Would you fly an expensive ship that will cause up to 5 days worth of sp loss when it gets destroyed. If you did use one, would you use it for pvp, or missions, or just pimpness? I would fly a ship that would cause sp loss, even if i lost up to 2 weeks of sp, so long as the ship gave me an increased chance of killing multiple ships in pvp.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:18:00 - [104] For every "rich" person I know there are at least 20 who are barely getting by. That's WHY so many GTCs get sold -- a giant chunk of the playerbase can't be bothered to grind or run ISK making alts. Ironically the SP loss mechanic will even the playing field for people willing to fly T3, whether they be rich or poor.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:09:00 - [105] The truly rich people dont experience loss. They're all empire carebears who's only risk is making only 5% on a transactions, and not their standard 10%. So what's rich to an empire carebear might be tens of billions of isk. To a 00 carebear, possibly only a couple tens of billions. And all that dwarfs a 00 pvp'er, who may only have a few hundred million from grinding out 00 ratting. And sadly, even those pvp'ers dwarf low sec pirates, who always seem to be just getting by. So, its all relative. I'm 'rich' for a 00 pvp'er myself.
Krystal Demishy	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:20:00 - [106] Things like these **** me off, 'couse i'm not rich and every loss is hard for me to recover, 'couse i need a lot of days ratting to get a new ship. If someone is too much rich and got hundreds of accounts, why should i be penalized too (i'm already penzalized having only 1 account and few time to play, why penalize me even more ffs?)!
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Clan MacPherson	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:29:00 - [107] I think I started in 04. I mainly empire hug - I sometimes load up a BC - jump out of my implants and go low sec/null space rat hunting for the kicks. I play fairly casual and I am sitting on about 450 mil cash. I also have a fleet of 10-12 battleships I have outfitted with rigs and all. All to keep those lvl 4s interesting. Some T2 ships/frigs/cruisers. Junk laying around everywhere. Have to say I am prob worth about 3 billion maybe? Not sure. But for me doesn't matter. I log in few hours and have enough to try out and do what I want. Feeling the itch to die though. Think last time I was podded was back in early 07. Pod needs replacing.
Haldane IV Einstein's Dreams	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:32:00 - [108] I'm sorry, but with a CCP sanctioned mechanic to enable anyone to obtain a few billion by buying and selling game time cards any time they like in place, I can't take this discussion seriously.
Gambuk	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:41:00 - [109] Isk comes and goes but SP last a lifetime~!
Dari Anoh Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:46:00 - [110] Maybe whenever someone posts a "Can I have your stuff", CCP thinks they actually get it?
Kephael Caldari Shoot To Thrill Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:53:00 - [111] Edited by: Kephael on 09/02/2009 19:02:40 What's "rich"? I don't consider myself rich, yet I purchase GTCs and never let myself go under 1 Billion Isk Cash. When you call someone risk, do you include their SP value? I personally sink quite a bit of isk into continuing character advancement.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:54:00 - [112] The problem is that isk ends up in the hands of the to few given the current game mechanics and end games available. Many industrialists are sitting on hundreds of billions of isk with little to do with it. Case in point with Ebank fastly approaching the 2 trillion mark. That is A LOT of idle isk people are willing to give to a third party for a small return.
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.02.09 19:05:00 - [113] Regarding SP Loss: Stupid. I see no reason for this, other than to really tork people off. Regarding being Rich: Uhhhhh...yeah. This is why I will only go out in T1 ships, because I have so many darn zero's in my bank account. Sounds more like the big boys are starting to get market competition and its making them all very sad pandas. Most I have EVER had was 150 mil, and only because I had to borrow money to replace a BS that I lost in PVE. Yep, it does happen. It was a stupid moment. Anyways, I have never broke 85 mil in my own wallet, so yeah, define rich.
Zey Nadar Gallente Stormwatch Galactic	Posted - 2009.02.09 19:42:00 - [114] Originally by: ghost st Its not really the amount of isk you make, thats has been roughly the same since i started playing. But the prices of everything have been plummeting, making it more affordable.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.02.09 22:21:00 - [115] Originally by: Janni Ratkaainen killing people doesn't turn much profit. Then you're doing it wrong.
Jack Light legion syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.09 22:23:00 - [116] There is no such thing as being too rich
OffBeaT Caldari LEGI0N	Posted - 2009.02.10 00:24:00 - [117] Edited by: OffBeaT on 10/02/2009 00:26:56 i cant move well in 00 space to npc hunt i am hunted buy everyone as soon as i start npcing.. its real tough now to make any real isk unless i can get into a alliance way deep in a 00 system somewhere. most people only have so much time after work to make isk its halfe of our eve time so truly i am starting to worry if i can afford to play eve time wise to get anything done. ccp is just letting the alliances have to much control over chock points with gate locking so that its almost a dead stop to get around in any 00 systems. even if i am a member of a alliance its still to easy to find me in a 00 system as there is a lot more traffic now then in the past so risk is a lot higher.. like most of us we only have so much time in life to do this game.. so no we are not rich or at lest the pvper are not anyway!
Apoctasy The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2009.02.10 00:28:00 - [118] Originally by: McTard I dunno about him, maybe all his friends are in big allainces with multiple Dyspo moons for income but most regular pvpers I know skate on the edge of poorness, not riches. Even the good ones. /signed
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2009.02.10 01:00:00 - [119] If we're all too rich then they need to do something about static income sources like the high end moons.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.10 01:09:00 - [120] You can't 'hurt' the truly wealthy in EVE. Seriously. Kill a 150mil T2 HAC of a player with billions in the bank? It's pocket change. But with T3, well thats slightly different. Its a slight blow to their overall progression, not much admitedly, but a hit none the less. Continually hit a player and youre starting to inflict noticeable harm. CCP could of course just nerf wealth generation - but actually thats counter productive, as it hits the poorer player as hard, possibly harder, than the wealthy player. But skill points quite nicely levels the playing field. I think its probably the right move. C.
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.02.10 02:38:00 - [121] A total EVE newbie in my corp made a hundred million in his first week, in high sec, without help. All he did was mine. My other 2-3 month old newbies are making more money than they can use (because they haven't the skills for tech 2), and losing +4 implant sets doesn't seem to affect them much. One of them already broke a billion isk, without really knowing anything (no help, only high sec). I myself have a few hundred billion in assets and 70bil in liquid stuff. I made a few billion just market speculating out of boredom. My hangar is full of ships I rarely fly, and some I hate. ISK is just plain easy to get, and I truly pity the people who spend real life money selling GTCs to get it. By comparison it took me several months to get my first BS.
Rondo Gunn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.10 02:41:00 - [122] Confirming I am in no way rich and able to shrug away every ship loss and CCP dev is seriously out of touch with the player base. ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:03:00 - [123] Originally by: Dr Resheph A total EVE newbie in my corp made a hundred million in his first week, in high sec, without help. All he did was mine. My other 2-3 month old newbies are making more money than they can use (because they haven't the skills for tech 2), and losing +4 implant sets doesn't seem to affect them much. One of them already broke a billion isk, without really knowing anything (no help, only high sec). I myself have a few hundred billion in assets and 70bil in liquid stuff. I made a few billion just market speculating out of boredom. My hangar is full of ships I rarely fly, and some I hate. ISK is just plain easy to get, and I truly pity the people who spend real life money selling GTCs to get it. By comparison it took me several months to get my first BS. So people who spend every waking moment carebearing have lots of ISK?!? This isn't possible! ---------------------------------
Rondo Gunn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:07:00 - [124] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne So people who spend every waking moment carebearing have lots of ISK?!? This isn't possible! Some of us do have to work and have something resembling a life. It's the sad truth of the real world.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:32:00 - [125] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne This is just further evidence that CCP is completely out of touch with the vast majority of the players in this game. I've been PVP'ing for several years now, and I can count on one hand the amount of people I know in game that don't have to worry about ISK. So now all of us uber rich guys (lol) not only get to lose ISK from these ridiculously expensive ships but we get to lose skill training time that it took to fly them too! YAY! I have enough isk I can replace my losses several times over (without insurance). and that isn't counting the stack of battleships I have sitting around idle, either just not fit or packaged, or the stack of items in my main station. most of that is from ratting/mission running .... wait, how many ships are you guys losing?
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:38:00 - [126] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne So people who spend every waking moment carebearing have lots of ISK?!? This isn't possible! Are you deliberately stupid? We're in empire for the wars decs and FW. My newbies probably spend less time doing money-making activities than your average new player. Yet they're able to rake in hundreds of millions within their first weeks. I don't even think any run lvl 4 missions solo yet.
Xiao LoPan	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:38:00 - [127] If all you rich guys feel guilty feel free to send me isk, I bought 5 +3 implants today and it cost over 25% of my net worth, most of the guys I fleet with are always walking the edge of broke.
Underachieving Tord	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:45:00 - [128] I have NEVER EVER had more than about 1, tops 2 billion in total ships/assets/wallet because making isk is so incredibly boring and I fight instead until I loose ships, then I go make new isk. This is the way of every good pvp:er I know in the game. Almost no real good 100% pvp:ers have lots and lots of isk.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:48:00 - [129] I'm too poor. mainly because I'm lazy at times.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.10 04:17:00 - [130] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: Dr Resheph A total EVE newbie in my corp made a hundred million in his first week, in high sec, without help. All he did was mine. My other 2-3 month old newbies are making more money than they can use (because they haven't the skills for tech 2), and losing +4 implant sets doesn't seem to affect them much. One of them already broke a billion isk, without really knowing anything (no help, only high sec). I myself have a few hundred billion in assets and 70bil in liquid stuff. I made a few billion just market speculating out of boredom. My hangar is full of ships I rarely fly, and some I hate. ISK is just plain easy to get, and I truly pity the people who spend real life money selling GTCs to get it. By comparison it took me several months to get my first BS. So people who spend every waking moment carebearing have lots of ISK?!? This isn't possible! hmm, as a complete noob in an osprey ~= 350m3 of ore per min, at ~=11.00 isk per unit for veldspar. that is 3500 units of veldspar per min -> 38500isk/min, or about 26 mins for every mil. roughly 2mil per hour. so well 50 hours in a week yea that is a bit much. Now remember that guy is a noob. I get 1268m3 per min on a hulk, with my alts skills. around 8mil/hour. and that is just straight up selling the veldspar, could probably refine and get more (or gasp, even manufacture). now, running missions I can get 10mil, in bounty alone, in 20mins getting lucky. probably say I top out at 50mil/hour, of course I can drop down to 20mil or under, due to bad missions, going afk, and/or being an Idle chainsaw. My current 0.0 situation is around 10mil/hour ratting. mainly doing it to get sec up. meh, lots and lots of isk
Bohoba Caldari HolyKnights	Posted - 2009.02.10 04:17:00 - [131] Originally by: Dr Resheph A total EVE newbie in my corp made a hundred million in his first week, in high sec, without help. All he did was mine. My other 2-3 month old newbies are making more money than they can use (because they haven't the skills for tech 2), and losing +4 implant sets doesn't seem to affect them much. One of them already broke a billion isk, without really knowing anything (no help, only high sec). I myself have a few hundred billion in assets and 70bil in liquid stuff. I made a few billion just market speculating out of boredom. My hangar is full of ships I rarely fly, and some I hate. ISK is just plain easy to get, and I truly pity the people who spend real life money selling GTCs to get it. By comparison it took me several months to get my first BS. :) I been playing for years got 400 mill in my wallet mined my corp into bs's back then they were flying BS's and I was mining in a merlin now I have an orc but they systems are over mined a belt won't even produce a BS now days still looking for that quite spot to make my billions :) ....................... 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
Irongut M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2009.02.10 05:48:00 - [132] Originally by: McTard Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. They aren't big 0.0 corp soldiers, they're noobs in failing corps that shouldn't be in 0.0. BS insurance pays for the ship and then some plus T2 mods and rigs aren't that expensive. I could afford to lose hundreds of fully fit fleet BS before I ran out of isk even if I never earned any more.
Bethulsunamen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.10 06:32:00 - [133] Edited by: Bethulsunamen on 10/02/2009 06:34:41 Originally by: Irongut Originally by: McTard Most guys I know, and I'm even talking 0.0 big corp soldiers, they lose one t2 fittted BS certainly 2 of em and bam they are broke ass and flying Rifters. They aren't big 0.0 corp soldiers, they're noobs in failing corps that shouldn't be in 0.0. BS insurance pays for the ship and then some plus T2 mods and rigs aren't that expensive. I could afford to lose hundreds of fully fit fleet BS before I ran out of isk even if I never earned any more. So the only people that should be in 0.0 are people that have been playing for 3 years already? Its amazing how hostile this community is to new players, yet new players is exactly what this game (and all mmo's) need to grow. Its sort of counter-productive to only cater to the few hardcore players.. Yes i admit it, im a nub too. Im poor as hell too. If i lost a BS i'd be broke, thats why i dont fly a BS yet. I've been playing on and off since BETA, but suspending my account so often because i simply cant find a way to make enough isk to participate in pvp or FW. PVP & FW is where the fun is, and in FW you get 0 isk while risking to loose your ship, and in pvp you are lucky if you get enough isk to replace your ship before you die. The point is, the majority of EVE players are NOT rich, if everyone was so ****in rich, in the billions, then every single thing on the market would cost in the billions too. Its simple economics, if everyone was rich the price of ships would skyrocket, since people would still afford them. Hell feel free to donate a few 100 million isk to me if ya'll are so incredibly rich.
Andrea Skye Caldari The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2009.02.10 07:08:00 - [134] Im a pirate and lose ships quite regulary. As i like to test people/things. If im outnumbered but see a chance to win i usualy to take it, strangly that usualy means i die too, but anywho, that means i go through quite abit of isk. My wallet only ever once went above one bil, and i brought a set of low grade slaves, got podded due to a FW blob which lagged the **** outa my client and then brought another set (no omega) So now i sit at usualy between 100-200 mil, and run l4 missions on my mission alt whenever i lose a ship to many. Its decent isk, but i wouldnt say i was rich by a long shot. In fact i dont think i ever will be because it seems the more isk i get the faster i spend it. And on T3 ships, if i lose SP, i wont be flying them, its that simple.
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.02.10 07:21:00 - [135] Originally by: Avon Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. Ture. Buy PLEX for real money, sell PLEX ingame, 600 mil buged within 2 minutes
Kumi Unn	Posted - 2009.02.10 07:35:00 - [136] I'm so poor all I can afford is the PLEX's on my back =/ If I ever got a T3 ship, I'd just showcase it, and probably mission with the damn bastard! :D
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.10 08:35:00 - [137] Perhaps all the EvE TV guys macro hauler missions..........ofcourse they are rich there on the TV
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.10 08:39:00 - [138] If "were too rich" why do we fly battlecruisers so much more than command ships? Hint: its not because we dont have the skills. I for one only have one nighthawk back in emp, and it's not being used again untill I can afford another one (not for a very long time in other words). "CCP outoftouch" is mis-guided as he thinks we all have alts to generate isk, newsflash: 90% of us dont.
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:42:00 - [139] At the two extremes of eve there exists two kinds of players, those who expend all the isk they get and those who accumulate it. In the middle is a large group who do both but nobody will deny that the first two groups are significant. Clearly the first group is represented by those who almost exclusively pvp and the second by those who exclusively pve/mine/trade. It seems to me that if this dev would like to see isk harder to come by and thus more important to protect via pvp encounters, he is advocating that these two extreme groups of players be forced to interact, to become more like each other. While hisec exists as it does, isk will always be too easy to accumulate and too easy to protect. It is kind of confusing to me, as a relatively new player, why CCP would create hisec with it's abundant resources and protective game mechanics if they wanted to foster an environment where players fought to protect their income. It seems they have created a place which players inhabit if they merely wish to accumulate pixels without having to interact with other players too much, barring the friendly chit chat with other corpies whist roid popping etc. I can understand the need for an area of game play where one cannot be popped by anyone at any time but they have created a place that encourages nothing but no risk grind and isk hoarding, with no real reason for corps to interact offensively since there is always another roid field around the corner, another agent who never runs out of missions to run. In my few months in this game I have been involved around 5 hisec wars and not one of them has been between 2 corps fighting over resources. The only one that came close to that description was suddenly ninjas deccing CEO over non payment of salvage "fees" in Dodixie, the rest were all just pvpers looking for kills. IMHO the resources in hisec need to be DRASTICALLY reduced, ore, ice, everything up to and including the amount of missions given by agents. In fact agent missions need to have some type of "competition" mechanic added to them such as bidding for the job. This way, hisec corps will be encouraged, indeed they will find it necessary to fight each other over the amount of isk earning potential available in hisec. More players will try pvp (out of necessity and may venture out of hisec as a result, while some lo/hisec players may venture back to hisec to take part in the inevitable conflicts over good belts or good agents. Unless something like this is done, there will always exist a group of players who do nothing except make isk and make it very easily and group who do nothing but look for people to kill. well mannered ah*
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:27:00 - [140] I'm reasonably rich. I will be flying T3. I will be using them in PVP. In fact, I'm dissapointed that there are no BS's.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:33:00 - [141] I totally agree isk is way too easy to make these days. But not in the way that dev most likely thinks it is, but by legalized RMT. As evidenced by the prices for very high end gear spiraling totally out of control, stuff I bought for my mission ships in 2007 are now worth 10 times as much and I don't fkn dare use some of it anymore. Now you could say 'Fine, sell it for a hefty profit' but the Entity in me would never sell such stuff and wants to buy more but can't because GTC monkeys pay way more than the stuff is worth in honest isk... And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
echohead	Posted - 2009.02.10 20:22:00 - [142] I am very interested in this topic in general. Just some background on myself. I spend alot of time working the markets in Caldari space where things get pretty competitive. I also run level 4 missions very efficiently. PVP may just be a hobby for me, but I still fly almost all T2 ships without faction fittings. So I have a good idea of how to make ISK in highsec. I don't think ISK is hard to come by, I think it is just boring. PVP may be fun, but it is never going to make you any serious ISK. That is one of the great things about eve, you get out what you put in. Personally I would love if they lowered the payouts on missions and highsec mining. It would push more people into lowsec and 0.0. (not to mention I would still be making ISK on the market "
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.10 21:51:00 - [143] Edited by: nether void on 10/02/2009 21:51:34 Originally by: Insa Rexion People should have to fight over resources everywhere but the total newb areas. Totally agree with this statement, and I'm a carebear (so far). PvP should revolve around protecting resources...so you can PvP even harder! PvPers using mission alts in empire generating ISK for their PvP habits is a broken mechanic, doubly so for the 0.0 players. If you defend 0.0, it should be insanely easier to generate ISK than empire, but I think the problem lies in that 'insanely easy to get ISK' is in the form of moon goo, which is tied up in the corporation. Give that money to the 'people', and that mechanic would work much better. --------------------
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.10 22:26:00 - [144] Pretty much QFT everything Insa said. CCP wants to-they've mentioned it was their intention-the question is, how do they do it while causing as little e-drama as possible.
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.02.10 22:28:00 - [145] Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/02/2009 01:17:10 At this point in time it's everything I can do just to sc**** the ISK together for my PLEX each month. I'm not rich in any way shape or form. My goal is to earn enough to pay the PLEX and have a bit of PvP fun each week. Oh, Martin - ship prices are low due to oversupply, not due to paucity of ISK. IMHO your too rich if you can afford to pay for a plex every month... I dont know anyone who can make that much money in one month - not unless your not enjoying the game and all your doing is mining, trading, etc constantly...and Wheres the fun in that?
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.10 22:43:00 - [146] My main has about 2 or 3 billion in assets (3 or 4 if you include skillbook purchases) but very little isk. This has taken 5 years to accumulate so I can honestly say making isk isn't as easy as some think. I solo lvl4 missions and mine mission roids since there's never any in the belts in highsec. A good proportion of my isk has been spent on replacement ships but even then, I don't PVP in anything expensive so it's no big deal if I lose it. Often the ships are so cheap to replace that insurance isn't even worth it.
echohead	Posted - 2009.02.10 23:03:00 - [147] "IMHO your too rich if you can afford to pay for a plex every month.." "My main has about 2 or 3 billion in assets (3 or 4 if you include skillbook purchases) but very little isk. This has taken 5 years to accumulate" What are you people doing that you are making this little ISK? I have knuckled down over a over a week or so and made over a billion to invest in capital ships for friends. I make alot of ISK through teamwork and working the market. But I know enough about the market to know I am a very small fish. There are people out there that make way more ISK than myself.
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.10 23:06:00 - [148] If everyone's too rich, when why does my wallet still stop at 11mil ISK after 5 years of playing?. Oveur 2006: We're going to make blobwarfare less effective. Oveur 2008: We're installing better code so players can bring bigger blobs.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.10 23:29:00 - [149] Originally by: Alpha Prime If everyone's too rich, when why does my wallet still stop at 11mil ISK after 5 years of playing?. the shinyes dont buy themselves =)
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:46:00 - [150] Originally by: echohead What are you people doing that you are making this little ISK? I have knuckled down over a over a week or so and made over a billion to invest in capital ships for friends. PVP. I could not carebear all the time, I'd go stir crazy. Yes, I have done in the past when there's a ship to be bought or I'm looking at several hundred mill for a skillbook. The BPC for my dread didn't just appear in my hangar, nor did the BPC's for the components, nor will the ore required to build them. I'm going to have to knuckle down and do some work. Otherwise, there's our system to defend in lowsec, calls to duty from the alliance and so on which all costs me isk in the end in terms of lost hours carebearing. Those who actually play the game are not rich, those who only carebear all the time are. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:49:00 - [151] i loose ship get insurance and then buy ships carebears is boring as post above i only have 50 mill now i will eventually have to do a week of carebearing but im not looking foward to it =( This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Citizen AQ670E14	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:52:00 - [152] I'm not rich
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:53:00 - [153] Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 I'm not rich join the club This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Citizen AQ670E14	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:54:00 - [154] Originally by: Armoured C Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 I'm not rich join the club Will there be pie and punch?
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:56:00 - [155] Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 Originally by: Armoured C Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 I'm not rich join the club Will there be pie and punch? there will be cak...there will be pie This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Citizen AQ670E14	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:00:00 - [156] Edited by: Citizen AQ670E14 on 13/02/2009 02:00:21 Originally by: Armoured C there will be cak...there will be pie How can you afford? You're not rich
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:01:00 - [157] Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 Edited by: Citizen AQ670E14 on 13/02/2009 02:00:21 Originally by: Armoured C there will be cak...there will be pie How can you afford? You're not rich it not my pie :) This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Citizen AQ670E14	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:03:00 - [158] Originally by: Armoured C Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 Edited by: Citizen AQ670E14 on 13/02/2009 02:00:21 Originally by: Armoured C there will be cak...there will be pie How can you afford? You're not rich it not my pie :) I see what you did there
WaltDisney	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:07:00 - [159] I spent all my isk on my cryogenics
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:12:00 - [160] Originally by: WaltDisney I spent all my isk on my cryogenics you kidding me with the name killed by waltdisney lol This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Citizen AQ670E14	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:14:00 - [161] Originally by: WaltDisney I spent all my isk on my cryogenics The fact that you are not an "!" means that you have had that char for a while. I would have sworn it was made specifically for that joke!
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:16:00 - [162] Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I remember when a cruiser was a corporation-sized investment, and there were no battleships. I was one of the first in my old corp to train Gallente cruiser. Can you imagine how it felt when the corp's Exequeror that we worked for almost a month to build and which they entrusted me to fly, got blown out from under me? THAT was frickin risk. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:16:00 - [163] he been waiting for that for years since beta for that =P This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Citizen AQ670E14	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:20:00 - [164] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I remember when a cruiser was a corporation-sized investment, and there were no battleships. I was one of the first in my old corp to train Gallente cruiser. Can you imagine how it felt when the corp's Exequeror that we worked for almost a month to build and which they entrusted me to fly, got blown out from under me? THAT was frickin risk. Was there no insurance? Or were minerals way above insurance pay back then?
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:22:00 - [165] Originally by: Citizen AQ670E14 Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I remember when a cruiser was a corporation-sized investment, and there were no battleships. I was one of the first in my old corp to train Gallente cruiser. Can you imagine how it felt when the corp's Exequeror that we worked for almost a month to build and which they entrusted me to fly, got blown out from under me? THAT was frickin risk. Was there no insurance? Or were minerals way above insurance pay back then? i remember insurance from RMR i wasnt in the game any earlier that maybe 2 week before RMR realsed This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Gealbhan Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.13 03:32:00 - [166] I wouldn't class myself as rich in eve-o.
Mr Crowley Minmatar Rising Ashes INC SATRAPY	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:03:00 - [167] Seems to me that a skill point loss is a cheap generic band aid to the real problem of to much isk in eve. Or The lack of balance of isk in eve vs empire/non empire and professions. A more intelligent choice for this would be to gain some balance. By 1) Reducing the profitability of high lvl missions and moving them ALL into lower security 2) Figuring out how to stop the macro miners who flood the markets with mins reducing the values No discussion of moderation in signatures please - email us if you have any questions - Jacques([email protected])
James Malice Gallente Coalition Of Resolution	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:04:00 - [168] I don't fly anything i can't afford to lose ISK wise. I think the point the guy was trying to make is that t3 will be so good at what they do, that people who can afford the ISK loss will still want to fly t3, but will actualy have to weigh the risk in loss of time skill training. ISK has lost much of it's value, because it's there to be gained and lost, SP hasn't because once you get it, you keep it, that's now it's been since the begining unless you're podded without an updated clone, which always sucks. Originally by: MooKids I like them, I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:12:00 - [169] Originally by: Bethulsunamen So the only people that should be in 0.0 are people that have been playing for 3 years already? Its amazing how hostile this community is to new players, yet new players is exactly what this game (and all mmo's) need to grow. Its sort of counter-productive to only cater to the few hardcore players.. Nope, he's saying that people who suck at playing can't cut it in 0.0. And only those who are members of failed corps, 3 year old chars or not, are the only ones that can't sc**** together enough for covering the cost of replacing a BS or 20. If you are failing to understand what he's saying, then either you're an empire carebear or part of one of those failed 0.0 corpses that can barely keep themselves supplied with replacement ships.
Junko Togawa	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:16:00 - [170] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Pretty much QFT everything Insa said. CCP wants to-they've mentioned it was their intention-the question is, how do they do it while causing as little e-drama as possible. They can't. State of the game enables PvP quite well, IMO. Easy to get money, ships are cheap because of mass production, means those who want to can get right on out there and do it. Oops, my ship went pop! Oh well, cheap to replace. Make money and resources harder to come by, that slows down production, that means ships and equipment cost more and people are less willing to risk things, not more. Where people were more readily zipping about in T2 ships, they start using T1 ships. Fewer people want to PvP because it becomes more expensive. People become frustrated that they have to sink more time for less gain. Maybe RMT salves this; more likely, people play less, not more. Less people play, fewer people to PvP with, fewer people doing manufacturing and resource gathering that keeps the economy rolling. Server pop starts to drop instead of rise. Infrastructure begins to rot and crumble. Goons dance on the ruins and lol at everyone. Not that they needed an excuse. Look at it like this: With the current state of affairs, the server pop is rising, not falling. You think you're too rich? Throw some of that cash away, if you've got so much. Do less work to maintain it. Long as CCP makes money, they can continue to give you new ways to throw that cash away.
Lurana Jade Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:17:00 - [171] Quote: 1) Reducing the profitability of high lvl missions and moving them ALL into lower security Then people zerg 3's. Or quit. Bad idea. It solves nothing. You still won't get any faction fitted pve lardasses at that gate you sit at.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:09:00 - [172] I agree with one of the people that posted before me. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
James Malice Gallente Coalition Of Resolution	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:18:00 - [173] Originally by: Empyre I agree with one of the people that posted before me. was it me? Originally by: MooKids I like them, I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:24:00 - [174] Originally by: James Malice Originally by: Empyre I agree with one of the people that posted before me. was it me? no sorry maybe next time. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
James Malice Gallente Coalition Of Resolution	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:36:00 - [175] Originally by: Empyre Originally by: James Malice Originally by: Empyre I agree with one of the people that posted before me. was it me? no sorry maybe next time. Dang... dreams shattered again. :( Originally by: MooKids I like them, I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:41:00 - [176] I don't know about the rest of you but I"m not that rich, I'm trying to sc**** enough together for a skill book right nos such I've not been able to replace my last battleship loss yet. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Lone Davinel Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:41:00 - [177] Edited by: Lone Davinel on 13/02/2009 08:41:47 A week ago I had 25 million isk. Now I have 500 million. Station trading wins? I pvp and every hour I switch to the other client I have open and updated my orders... then back to PVP or w/e I'm doing on my main. Honestly the isk I'm going to make with my alt will pay for its account GTC easily and the rest I can use to buy shiny stuff.
Rordan D'Kherr	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:40:00 - [178] Originally by: McTard How about you? And your friends? All you all too rich? Is there not enough to risk in EVE? There is no risk making millions and millions in empire with rediculous high bounties and mission rewards...
Ralitge boyter Minmatar BrightSpark Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 10:43:00 - [179] We are not so much to rich but it is to easy to make ISK, I mean loose a T2 battleship with all faction mods and within a month every single one of us is able to replace it completely. ISK is easy to come by not that this is a new thing but because people have worked out the optimal ISK/h stuff to do, and the macro miners supply nearly free minerals and ice keeping the prices down. The newer ships have made the older once ever cheaper. Buy a Caldari Navy Raven a year a go and you front about 1B just for the ship, now they are selling in Jita for about 200M because the Golem is a far better ship for mission running, and the Calradi Navy Raven lost it's edge. The same thing happend to mining lasers, (strip miners) cruisers (HAC), battle cruisers (Command ships) etc, even the all powerful battle ship is just another step towards the dreadnaught, carrier, motheership or even titan. Research, is faster and thus cheaper because of POS's the same with manufacturing and invention killed the artificial high prices of the T2 gear and ships. CCP could have known this would happen and it is not that we are all to rich it is that CCP has made the bassis of the economie produce a lot faster and more efficient. Not killing macro's more effective, offering POS labs and manufacturing slots, adding jump bridges, jump freighters, freighters and so on all help to reduce the labor cost to produce items thus driving the prices down, keeping more money in the pocket of the average joe giving him an easier way to replace a loss. In the old days 400M was a heck of a lot, A battleship cost between 100 and 200M and only a rare few players had more then 1B in their wallet. Now if you don't have at least several billions of ISK you are considdered poor. This is a result of the fact that more ISK buys better systems that make more ISK that buy better systems that make more ISK. This is a situation that CCP could and sould have seen comming years ago. New players will not be held back by lack of skills they will learn from the mistakes of the older players and in that way gain the knowledge to make more ISK faster. There is no real way to stop this people have a tendency to grow in all ways. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.02.13 11:17:00 - [180] Originally by: McTard I suppose that all this means we will see a massive Empire missioning nerf coming in M10 or soon after, thinly disguised as a "Massive Mission AI boost! More mission love and exciting new things to do!" Prepare the Wambulance then. Don't tease me like that, it's mean
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.02.13 16:04:00 - [181] CCP is welcome to deal with this ISK mountain by spreading the wealth to me. Rich is a relative term anyway. I'm sure some are 'too rich' whatever that means, but I doubt every character is rolling in it. What do we make ISK for after all, if not to spend it? Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr There is no risk making millions and millions in empire with rediculous high bounties and mission rewards... A pity that that's got nothing to do with where the real money in empire is made... trade. It's no coincidence that the devs talk of 2-3 trillion ISK traded every day, and you can bet your last ISK that people aren't moving that kind of money without a profit being made. Indeed see the post above yours. Nowhere were bounties and missions even mentioned yet his trade alt funds his main and then some. Understand the problem before you try and fix it, hmm? You seem to equate risk with 'I must be able to shoot stuff' when in truth, an intelligent trader optimises their risks both in trading and elsewhere and thus benefits from their intelligent choices without ever undocking. How would you propose to increase that risk? Can you even predict the economic impact of what you're proposing? Case in point - reduction of missions & bounties in high-sec means less liquidity in high-sec due to reduced cash injection into the economy. Lower available funds means people buy less or buy less expensive goods. Since everyone claims that nobody ever loses ships in missions, buying must ultimately come from PvP-related activities. Less ISK means either PvP in cheaper ships, fewer T2 ships are risked, and so on, or people spend more time recouping losses than participating in PvP. Either way, demand drops whilst supply continues to increase. Competition is stiffer, margins drop further, and then suddenly everything's affordable again on the lower bounties & mission rewards, and the economy restabilises. Whiners go back to complaining that people are doing missions in high-sec for no risk. It's a simplification, but I trust I illustrated why it's not as easy as waving a magic wand and reducing a given ISK input. Originally by: Avon I remember when a t1 cruiser was a big deal, and a battleship was a dream. I think it took me nearly a month to get the ISK for a good cruiser, and now it takes about 20 minutes. Yes, ISK is way to easy to come by now. This is basic MMO economics - why are you surprised? Low population coupled with fewer tools and less organisation, and simply less idea of what to do, will always have a tougher time than a larger organised population with a vibrant supply & demand based economy. ISK is just a number, and strictly unlinked to any other currency. What is vastly more critical is inflation vs deflation - the buying value of your ISK. EVE's population is growing and has been for five years - introducing both more demand and more supply depending on which route a player chooses. The balancing act some are proposing messing with is more complex than first appears. Today would you define that 'good cruiser' as the exact same combat potential compared to your foes as five years ago, or has that changed to perhaps a HAC or other T2 ship? Does it still take you 20 minutes to make the money for that HAC? Be careful what you're comparing.
Amerilia	Posted - 2009.02.13 16:05:00 - [182] Can I have some stuff? ^^
KingsGambit Caldari Knights	Posted - 2009.02.13 16:23:00 - [183] Originally by: 5pinDizzy They don't listen to insurance suggestions. Propose something that doesn't use an in-game 'base price' and which cannot be abused. I can manufacture a couple of T2 ships. What system could you propose that would give a buyer of my ship a fair payout (vs actual market value) that I couldn't abuse en masse by insuring and self-destructing ship after ship?
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.13 16:55:00 - [184] I'm definately not rich. I have enough SP in the right places to be able to do all the things that make people rich, but I only have time to play once or twice a week, so for casual gamers like me we struggle a bit when a expensive ship is lost in some fashion.
Bellawulf Caldari Hall of Fire	Posted - 2009.02.13 17:46:00 - [185] Originally by: Martin Mckenna If everyone was mega mega rich then that would reflect in ship prices. So I realy doubt this argument holds up at any level. Ok, before I say what I want to say, I have to say the ships I most like flying are the tech2 frigates -- particularly the Intercepters and Stealth Bombers. Now with that said: I agree. Lately, all of the ships I've had to replace due to being blown up have been significantly cheaper than when I previously bought them for. Also, just recently I bought another Caldari Navy Cloaking Device (via LPs), and I noticed that the cost of the Gallente Sergeant 1, 2, and 3 tags to trade to the LP broker were also significantly cheaper. Arbalest Cruise Missile Launchers? Same thing, I've noticed their price has been falling. If people really were "too rich", the opposite would be true. EVE is the definition of a laisez-faire capitalist economy. If people were brimming with cash, they prices wouldn't be falling, they'd be rising. That's econ 101.

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