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Say no to forced 5 points base attribute redistribution.

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Diegate	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:10:00 - [1] Ok, I welcome this new attribute relocation stuff that will come with the the expansion. What I do not like is that I might get "brain damaged" if I dont redistribute my points where I dont want em. My minmater char for example have 4 in base perc and 3 in wp. So if I want to move 4 of my points in Memory over in Intelligence I cant do that for some reason, instead I must put 1 point into perception and 2 points into wp and then I get to put the last point I have into. So as an industry char I now have 3 more points in attributes I dont want. Whats up with that? Solution: Remove the restriction from the first attribute relocation. If somone still want to redistribute their attributes after 6 months they can be forced to have 5 base points in all attributes. Or do CCP just want to punish thoose old char who messed up at char creation by forcing them to gain more points in attributes they dont need, nor want?
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:20:00 - [2] Fix: Scratch the whole lame attribute redistribution. Problem solved. ;-) Super-lame feature.
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:23:00 - [3] Originally by: Glengrant Fix: Scratch the whole lame attribute redistribution. Problem solved. ;-) Super-lame feature. Worse than lame, its just un-Eve like. What are they thinking - remember consequences for your choices. You shouldn't be able to pump up say charisma and train leadership skills, and then dump charisma points once you have the skills. Bad idea all round.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:26:00 - [4] Saying no to this thread.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:27:00 - [5] You know you don't have to rearrange your attributes? Characters such as yours with a specific focus and the attributes to support that focus or fotm Achuras with 3 charisma will probably want to stay away from that rearrangement option. The way I see it is not meant as another cookie cutter min maxing tool but as a tool to help people with gimped characters, old players and new players alike, that didn't know about attributes when they started their characters. As someone who did some research and started balanced chars I don't care much about the whole feature as it is (might rearrange 1 Char and 1-2 Memory to Perc and Int maybe), I just know that if they remove the 5 points minimum it will be exploited like hell not least by me to minimize training times of certain skillgroups - and thats not the purpose imho.
Ouset radealt Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:27:00 - [6] DOnt forget, this feature takes learning skills into consideration, implates and base atributes...
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:28:00 - [7] Atleast new characters KNOW what points to put where My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Daan Sai Originally by: Glengrant Fix: Scratch the whole lame attribute redistribution. Problem solved. ;-) Super-lame feature. Worse than lame, its just un-Eve like. What are they thinking - remember consequences for your choices. You shouldn't be able to pump up say charisma and train leadership skills, and then dump charisma points once you have the skills. Bad idea all round. I do somewhat agree about consequenses. The problem is: When I started to play EVE 3 years ago I did not really know how the hell EVE worked at all! The attribute spread sounds cool, but I was unsure about all the races. I did not know for example havin 3 in perception as a Intaki was.....not the smartest thing. I just liked the race you know.. Anyway. If the redistribution is for like 1 time only or 1 time a year only - i guess its ok. But anything more, then yes, its getting un-EVE. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:30:00 - [9] You get to move the five points you allocated during character creation. It will hardly unbalance anything, doubt it will have much effect on anything actually. The limited scope makes the thing a complete waste of resources if you ask me, like the certificates .. nice idea but limited usefulness. Both can very useful in the first 6-12 months of character life provided you have an idea of how the skill system works, after that training times will benefit from the +10 from skills/implants far more.
Shenko Minara	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:31:00 - [10] CCP have never paid any attention to customers about changing a feature they have already decided upon. Live with it. -- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:31:00 - [11] I might actually go epic and transfer from willpower to charisma or something. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Katabrok First Caldari Star Mandate	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:33:00 - [12] Just don't use it. Keep you horrible stats for ever. Kata Uma vez flamengo, sempre flamengo.
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida You get to move the five points you allocated during character creation. It will hardly unbalance anything, doubt it will have much effect on anything actually. You get to move around 14 points. The limits are that every attribute must have a minimum of 5 points and a maximum of 15 points. The total points across all attributes is 39.
Jobby Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Shenko Minara CCP have never paid any attention to customers about changing a feature they have already decided upon. Live with it.
Dreadchain Gallente Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Shenko Minara CCP have never paid any attention to customers about changing a feature they have already decided upon. Live with it. Didn't they undo the carrier fighter nerf? After that massive spamfest of ASCII ****s and rage.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:57:00 - [16] Don't like how it works ? - Don't use it. Want to redistribute - no problems - however 5 points is going to be minium in any stat. I quite like it the way it already is. Ofc I would happily redistribute myself into cha 3 club if it would be possible, but it aint and I think it's good.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:05:00 - [17] it should not be base 5. makes your choices mean nothing at creation. should be like base 3/7/5 all based on your blood line and such.
Unforgivin Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:10:00 - [18] cant wait to max out my charisma! and be ready for all the ladies in ambulation .. oh yeah cant wait!
Diegate	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:21:00 - [19] Alot of great arguments here.... The big question remains, when they first implement this feature, why do they force people to put points into attributes that were low in the first place?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:47:00 - [20] Join the club
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:58:00 - [21] Well...there really should be more effects from stats. Honestly, it's not changing things into WoW or other stuff like that, perception could help with extra locking or faster locking times, willpower with armor(manly thoughts keep hull together!), charisma would help with gang bonuses etc etc. Why not? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.02.10 13:08:00 - [22] Meh i was surprised you can respec ALL attribs (and all points with only req all stats are 5 minumum). Imo its WAY too easy now to min-max skills. Just my char as an example (per 4, charisma 3 starting, maxes its around 25int, 20per, 19cha, 25will, 27mem +-2 points total). Apocrypha hits, im not interested in t3 ships but continue my skill plan (weapon specs to lv5). thus i drop 2 mem points into charisma (for 5 minumum) and then put everything into per/will. Half a year later new expansion comes out with int/mem skills - everyone respecs int/mem. It removes character diversification and further penalizes those who had for ex. charisma and will high. Because if ccp releases new skills they wont use their stats to their advantage - everyone will be able to do so. IMO: limit it to 1 point move per half year. Becomes much harder to spec for FOTM and chars still remain unique.
Triris	Posted - 2009.02.10 13:22:00 - [23] Maybe saying no is the right thing. Even if you have a base number of 3 of one attribute, it evens out into other attributes. So one person can train industry skills really fast and someone can train Spaceship Command really fast. It all evens out in the end. But of course, this is only if we all stay on eve for the next three years. Moving points around can be a huge exploitation if one character has really high Spaceship Command and is ready to give mining a chance, for example.
Darth Felin	Posted - 2009.02.10 13:43:00 - [24] 5 point minimum is great imho as protection from min/maxing crowd.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.10 13:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Darth Felin 5 point minimum is great imho as protection from min/maxing crowd. Oh, yeah, because 15/9/5/5/5 isn't min-maxing
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.02.10 13:55:00 - [26] The whole redistribution is a little like SWG:NGE, you make a choice at the beginning of your game-time and this choice doesn't really matter, since you can respec and redistribute at any time. In Eve you had this choice having an impact for ever, and this was ok for over 5 years now, was an important part of Eve. I understand that people might have made mistakes in the choice of attributes while they were new, and I'd not have anything against a once-in-a-lifetime redistribution that can be done earliest after 3 months game-time. But being able to redistribute every 6 months changes the whole skill training pattern. Now people will max one side for 6 months and then the other in the next 6 months. Everyone will be training everything at maximum speed and efficiency, no diffrence between the industrialist and the combat specialised pilot. Eve will definitely lose something.
Kary Savage	Posted - 2009.02.10 13:58:00 - [27] so i can just re-distribute 5 of my attributes to a single other attribute?
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:09:00 - [28] All your 'consequences for choices' ** is just that, **. EVE was and remains notoriously unclear about the importance of attribute points and what they do to a total newcomer, the choices most people made were uninformed for lack of information. This isn't going to hurt anyone, we can all do it, stop whining.
Caiman Graystock Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Kary Savage so i can just re-distribute 5 of my attributes to a single other attribute? No, you cannot redistribute ANY of your core attributes, just those you were able to select during character creation. So you cant have 0/0/0/0/39 or whatever.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:13:00 - [30] I don't understand why you would be allowed to redistribute the points more than once. Once is kind of ok to correct terrible noob mistakes when creating your character but the constant redistribution of points is a joke... My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Avalira Caldari Pax Minor Asylum	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:13:00 - [31] The minimum should be 3 (like on TQ), not 5 (like on Sisi). Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its been fixed. All in all its one of the more embarrassing mistakes I made, but it made game design laugh. Now lets never speak of this again.
Aeo IV Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker I do somewhat agree about consequenses. The problem is: When I started to play EVE 3 years ago I did not really know how the hell EVE worked at all! The attribute spread sounds cool, but I was unsure about all the races. I did not know for example havin 3 in perception as a Intaki was.....not the smartest thing. I just liked the race you know.. Anyway. If the redistribution is for like 1 time only or 1 time a year only - i guess its ok. But anything more, then yes, its getting un-EVE. This. When I started EVE about a year ago, I hadn't a clue what I was suppose to be doing with those points, and I ended up just putting them in what I thought sounded cool >.< And, by the time Attributes really started to matter (IE training a skill to lvl 4 or 5) I was already 2- 4 months old as a character-- time I'm not going to get back. Frankly, I think it's a good idea, if only because EVE isn't the sort of game your newbish "I-don't-kknow-what-I'm-doing" mistakes in character creation can be easily, or at all, undone. In most MMOs, you just create a new character, transfer what wealth you can to it, and grind up EXP until you're at the messed up character's level. In EVE we don't really have that opinion because in EVE EXP is directly linked to how old your character is.
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:30:00 - [33] Overall I think the part I think is unacceptable is the option to respec every 6 months. I could understand a once per char option to save folks from genuine errors once they know why they went wrong. Multiple respeccing is fundamentally wrong tho.
Sgt Blade Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:36:00 - [34] Apart from me wanting this who attribute redistribution thing but if it does stick then I would keep the 5 min base cap becuase it stops people ramping all their charisma away. If your charisma is already 5 or less then your ahead of everybody else who don't Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:39:00 - [35] …you know what would really solve all of this nonsense? If Charisma was made a worth-while attribute to have. When I started EVE, I made no out-of-game research into what the different builds were or could do — I just clicked around a bit and found that ye olde Caldari Achura gave the skills I was interested in at the time. I also picked my attribute according to what the descriptions claimed they were used for. …and when it came to Charisma, I just guessed (correctly), that it was a thoroughly useless stat like in all games (except maybe Fallout 1 and 2), in particular given how it's described on the character creation screens. "Ability to influence others"? In a PvP-centric space MMO? coughgarbagecough. So here I am, with a CIPMW score of 16.5 / 25.3 / 26.4 / 24.2 / 25.3, and with my Charisma learning skills still a level lower than the others because it's still a rubbish attribute. And now, because I correctly identified that attribute from day 1, I can't use this newfangled redistributing feature because it will force me to spend points on garbage. And the whole problem has less to do with min/maxing (because then I would have had a better spread than the above scores, and in fact I would use the allocation to unblance things even further), and more to do with the fact that I might as well just donate those two attribute points to the closest goon for all the good the reshuffle would do me. If Charisma was a useful attribute, that would no longer be the case — forcing another two points in there wouldn't be that bad because they could prove to be useful… it probably wouldn't even be correct to call it "forcing" any more. </unfocused rant> ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
No Class	Posted - 2009.02.10 15:01:00 - [36] So I am one of the nOObs that made the mistake of not knowing were to put my attributes. Now that I have been playing for a short while, I would like to take advantage of this. I would like to know where to move my numbers and what it will mean to my career. Anyone know of a good guide or linky?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.10 15:07:00 - [37] 19/19/19/13/17 here. My willpower is desperately low that I once let sherrif borrow my ship. (It never did smell the same.) Point is I really don't need such a high charisma. The skills are very intensive compared to spaceship command nor as useful in the terms of time. I like the change. Stop, hammer time.
Molly Mayhem Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.10 15:27:00 - [38] I don't know about you kids but I'm already planning 6 month min/maxed skill plans
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:19:00 - [39] Originally by: No Class So I am one of the nOObs that made the mistake of not knowing were to put my attributes. Now that I have been playing for a short while, I would like to take advantage of this. I would like to know where to move my numbers and what it will mean to my career. Anyone know of a good guide or linky? Thats the whole point. We didn't know either, and have had to live with these attributes for a long time, and rather than, you know, MAKE THE DESCRIPTIONS ON THE ATTRIBUTES BETTER, ccp decides to just say "well, we'll just let em re-scramble the egg whenever they want". Its ******ed, just say "science/tech skills are Int/memory, spaceship and weapon skills are Wil/Per" in the description and you would be so much better off.
Jericho thePure Amarr The 13th Armored Headhunters	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Glengrant Fix: Scratch the whole lame attribute redistribution. Problem solved. ;-) Super-lame feature. QFT
teoliit	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: No Class So I am one of the nOObs that made the mistake of not knowing were to put my attributes. Now that I have been playing for a short while, I would like to take advantage of this. I would like to know where to move my numbers and what it will mean to my career. Anyone know of a good guide or linky? Thats the whole point. We didn't know either, and have had to live with these attributes for a long time, and rather than, you know, MAKE THE DESCRIPTIONS ON THE ATTRIBUTES BETTER, ccp decides to just say "well, we'll just let em re-scramble the egg whenever they want". Its ******ed, just say "science/tech skills are Int/memory, spaceship and weapon skills are Wil/Per" in the description and you would be so much better off. So because you had to suffer through it everyone else should have to as well? Great reasoning
Taylor timenenzi	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: No Class So I am one of the nOObs that made the mistake of not knowing were to put my attributes. Now that I have been playing for a short while, I would like to take advantage of this. I would like to know where to move my numbers and what it will mean to my career. Anyone know of a good guide or linky? Thats the whole point. We didn't know either, and have had to live with these attributes for a long time, and rather than, you know, MAKE THE DESCRIPTIONS ON THE ATTRIBUTES BETTER, ccp decides to just say "well, we'll just let em re-scramble the egg whenever they want". Its ******ed, just say "science/tech skills are Int/memory, spaceship and weapon skills are Wil/Per" in the description and you would be so much better off. The I had to suffer so you have to is a idiotic reason at best. Really you sound like those WoW players that were pitching a fit when they lowered the level to ride a god damn horse. So how about drone skills? Are they industry or combat? You know they use mem/per right? Leadership thats a mix of combat utility and industry utility. What group do you put them into? And it uses a mix of charisma/willpower.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:43:00 - [43] Originally by: Tippia àyou know what would really solve all of this nonsense? If Charisma was made a worth-while attribute to have. This. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
sirovai Amarr Modern-Warfare	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:09:00 - [44] Attribute respec ftw, keep them in next patch ccp. Thankyou.
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:10:00 - [45] Base atribs on My Main - talk about gimped had no idea when creating character Intelligence9 Perception6 Charisma8 Willpower7 Memory 9 Base attribs on My Alt (just finished training for dread) Intelligence9 Perception8 Charisma6 Willpower8 Memory 8 When I hear people with 24 or higher willpower / perception I want to cry they finish the higher level combat skills a week or more ahead of me. Looking forward to this a lot, just wish it was before I trained for a dread cost me months of time likely.
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:10:00 - [46] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 10/02/2009 17:12:27 I jump in to say that if you wanted people to show support for this it was posted in the wrong forum. Secondly, also I want to say that I have 1-2 points in Charisma that I would not have put there when I started if I had known how they truely affected advancement and how few skills they have affected in my first year and a half in game. <int - 6 <mem - 6 <cha - 8 <per - 9 <wil - 10 Slade
Mikal Drey Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:27:00 - [47] hey hey I really like the new redistribution and the ui was really easy to use. 3/5 who cares. the ability to jiggle your atributes is pretty cool. I actually need loads of charisma as im very will/perc based and training the leadership skills really hurt and i still need a few more to max out. with a collection of long skills in a specific category you could seriously make a decent dent in the training times. If you wanted to spend the next 6 months training nav skills or maxing out those ebil L5 ships you can drop all the sp into will and perc and plug in a 2x +[X] implant set. implants are gonna sink or swim :)
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2009.02.10 20:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Tippia àyou know what would really solve all of this nonsense? If Charisma was made a worth-while attribute to have. This. Make it the base stat for all T3 stuff, just for the lolsomeness.

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