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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2385
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:14:00 -
[541] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Malcanis wrote:Yeah see this is the problem with your arguments, if they can be called that. I've yet to see a single argument from you on this subject. See page 23 for my argument. I read it already but you didn't offer any suggestions for what should be done with T3s. I can only assume you feel they are fine as they are. Oh god. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8282
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:15:00 -
[542] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:T3 are getting nerfed, CCP have said as much and just about everyone has expected one for years now. See, I know you don't take CCP's word as gospel, so the fact that you're using that as support for your argument baffles me somewhat. My EVE Videos |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9774
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:16:00 -
[543] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
I see you know all about it. What happens might not be what you expect though.
What I expect is for them to land betwen t1 and t2 cruisers and be more adaptable. At the very least it means no more battleship EHP. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9774
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:18:00 -
[544] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:baltec1 wrote:T3 are getting nerfed, CCP have said as much and just about everyone has expected one for years now. See, I know you don't take CCP's word as gospel, so the fact that you're using that as support for your argument baffles me somewhat.
Well I haven't been shocked so far. Plans seem to be going to plan which is slightly odd I must admit. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8282
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:19:00 -
[545] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Malcanis wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Malcanis wrote:Yeah see this is the problem with your arguments, if they can be called that. I've yet to see a single argument from you on this subject. See page 23 for my argument. I read it already but you didn't offer any suggestions for what should be done with T3s. I can only assume you feel they are fine as they are. No, I would wager he wants a few subsystems buffed, e.g. the logi subsystems. My EVE Videos |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8282
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:20:00 -
[546] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:
I see you know all about it. What happens might not be what you expect though.
What I expect is for them to land betwen t1 and t2 cruisers and be more adaptable. At the very least it means no more battleship EHP. You're basing this on a graphic in a devblog that was put out over a year ago. It was CCP Ytterbium who wrote that devblog, mind you. My EVE Videos |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8282
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:27:00 -
[547] - Quote
Seriously though, if all these ships are overshadowed by T3s, why do so many people still fly them?
Could it be that they aren't overshadowed at all, and have distinctive roles, which is as it should be? My EVE Videos |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2385
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Posted - 2014.01.11 16:50:00 -
[548] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Seriously though, if all these ships are overshadowed by T3s, why do so many people still fly them?
Could it be that they aren't overshadowed at all, and have distinctive roles, which is as it should be?
Of course. People will fit ships to fulfil requirements and many of those overshadowed ships fulfil requirements the T3 cannot. This is because there is no 'one-size-fits-all' ship that can do every job better than anything else can. T3 cruisers, however, do come closer to meeting that criteria than anything else does, in my opinion.
Could you tell me why you are so opposed to the idea of T3s being nerfed? Is it simply because you feel they are already where they should be, or do you foresee some kind of catastrophic development as a result of T3s being nerfed?
Oh god. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9775
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:02:00 -
[549] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: You're basing this on a graphic in a devblog that was put out over a year ago. It was CCP Ytterbium who wrote that devblog, mind you.
As I said, plans are going to plan. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2212
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:02:00 -
[550] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:
Could you tell me why you are so opposed to the idea of T3s being nerfed?
Well for me its because if you nerf the Legion, you are left with a slow fat shuttle *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8283
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:38:00 -
[551] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Seriously though, if all these ships are overshadowed by T3s, why do so many people still fly them?
Could it be that they aren't overshadowed at all, and have distinctive roles, which is as it should be? Of course. People will fit ships to fulfil requirements and many of those overshadowed ships fulfil requirements the T3 cannot. This is because there is no 'one-size-fits-all' ship that can do every job better than anything else can. T3 cruisers, however, do come closer to meeting that criteria than anything else does, in my opinion. Which has everything to do with the fact that T3s use subsystems. They aren't "one size fits all" so much as "one size fits one but can be reconfigured". Getting rid of this aspect would require T3s to be nerfed into oblivion.
Riot Girl wrote:Could you tell me why you are so opposed to the idea of T3s being nerfed? Is it simply because you feel they are already where they should be, or do you foresee some kind of catastrophic development as a result of T3s being nerfed? Both. That catastrophic development you refer to would be when nobody bothers flying T3s because other ships can do everything T3s can do, but better. Which is exactly what you're suggesting for them. Right now they can do some things pretty well and it's that which you're using as proof that they should be nerfed. My EVE Videos |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8283
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:41:00 -
[552] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Both. That catastrophic development you refer to would be when nobody bothers flying T3s because other ships can do everything T3s can do, but better. I should also mention that this is why almost nobody really bothers flying the Gnosis, despite the fact that everyone got one for free. My EVE Videos |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2386
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:03:00 -
[553] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has everything to do with the fact that T3s use subsystems. They aren't "one size fits all" so much as "one size fits one but can be reconfigured". Getting rid of this aspect would require T3s to be nerfed into oblivion. I was talking about the one configuration which gives it cruiser sig/mobility, BC DPS and BS tank. I wasn't including subsystem versatility in my assessment.
Quote:Both. That catastrophic development you refer to would be when nobody bothers flying T3s because other ships can do everything T3s can do, but better. Which is exactly what you're suggesting for them. It's not. I haven't suggested anything for them other than rebalancing them.
Quote:Right now they can do some things pretty well and it's that which you're using as proof that they should be nerfed. Yeah, kinda. Oh god. |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2212
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:10:00 -
[554] - Quote
Buff Legion
Do whatever to other T3s. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8284
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:29:00 -
[555] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has everything to do with the fact that T3s use subsystems. They aren't "one size fits all" so much as "one size fits one but can be reconfigured". Getting rid of this aspect would require T3s to be nerfed into oblivion. I was talking about the one configuration which gives it cruiser sig/mobility, BC DPS and BS tank. I wasn't including subsystem versatility in my assessment. What about ABCs? They have cruiser mobility, cruiser/BC tank, and BS DPS. They also cost way less, require less training, and don't have the skillpoint loss drawback.
Also last I checked T3 tank was on par only for some of the lower BS, e.g. Armageddon, Dominix, Typhoon, Scorpion and only if you sacrifice the entire rack (except for prop mod in case of shield).
Riot Girl wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Both. That catastrophic development you refer to would be when nobody bothers flying T3s because other ships can do everything T3s can do, but better. Which is exactly what you're suggesting for them. It's not. I haven't suggested anything for them other than rebalancing them. Rebalancing them how?
My EVE Videos |
Selaskhan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:40:00 -
[556] - Quote
Oh...Comeone. Just wipe out everything not T3 next expansion. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2386
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 19:37:00 -
[557] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:What about ABCs? They have cruiser mobility, cruiser/BC tank, and BS DPS. They also cost way less, require less training, and don't have the skillpoint loss drawback. T1 cruiser tank, not BC tank. If they had BC tank, they would certainly be OP.
Quote:Also last I checked T3 tank was on par only for some of the lower BS, e.g. Armageddon, Dominix, Typhoon, Scorpion and only if you sacrifice the entire rack (except for prop mod in case of shield). My Legion gets 120k EHP with 2 damage mods.
Quote:Rebalancing them how? I haven't put too much thought into it, but probably, remove SP loss, buff material costs, nerf defensive subsystems. Rebalance subsystems, perhaps limit subsystems to one role bonus each, possibly with focused subsystems for each category. i.e If you want pure gank, use 4 damage subsystems for 4 damage bonuses. If you want a balance of damage and tank, use 2 of each etc. I'm not really too sure. Oh god. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2388
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 08:17:00 -
[558] - Quote
Bumping this because I edited my previous post with some better ideas. Oh god. |
Serene Repose
Saanen Freight Service
876
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 09:37:00 -
[559] - Quote
I fly one 'cause I'm extremely stupid and don't mind saying so. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
223
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 09:55:00 -
[560] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:I fly one 'cause I'm extremely stupid and don't mind saying so. Clever Sig though, the irony is strong with this one. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
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