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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.05.30 18:44:00 -
[181]
The difference is (in EVE terms) that thermal energy causes a material to destroy itself from within while kinetic energy is destroying a material from outside.
Also, you can have a material which channels temperture extremly well, aka is very hard to damage by heat, but is very brittle, aka shatters easily if you hit it with something hard. Saying it's the same is too simplistic a view.
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chaos98
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Posted - 2006.05.30 18:56:00 -
[182]
Originally by: boost lasers
Originally by: Fio'el Testament
Kinetic penetrate because when you take their energy and apply it to a surface, they have enough force to penetrate.
Thermal is, as someone pointed out very well, the movement of atoms. Absolute zero is no movement; plasma is the happy dance.
Explosives are simply very fast expanding clouds of heat.
Kinetic and thermal energy are pretty much the same thing. Temperature is just a measure of average kinetic energy (atomic movement).
Explosives are just a more complicated kinetic reaction but essentially it's all the same.
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.05.30 19:13:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Aramendel on 30/05/2006 19:15:50 No, because, as said, the main damage of an explosion is not heat, it's pressure. Take, for example, an atomic bomb. While the heat of it's explosion is by no means little the *really* devestating part of it is the strong pressure wave it causes. You very likely have seen movies where a building (or entire city block) is leveled by an atomic bomb - they do not melt or burst into flames, they are simply brushed away like with the hand of god.
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.05.30 20:14:00 -
[184]
Edited by: madaluap on 30/05/2006 20:16:38 You are all a bunch of retards, dont bring physics into EvE. Its the worst argument EVER dont you understand, so somehow you calculate that lasers are TEHWIN button, and that you should have 1000^49 dmgMOD and be shooting all damage including p0o. There is NO point.
OK! Now bring out arguments about enemies using EAM so they get insane EM/therm resistance and you use the most cap evaah and that you get raped by a slasher all day long. The rest is just a load of crap, nobody takes that serieusly except ultrageeks that think physics > beer...
Dont you see if i say boost gallente and offer t0mb a beer he will give me HAX dmgmod while your crappy arguments wont do jack _________________________________________________
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 21:23:00 -
[185]
beer>physics in eve
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Wicaeed
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Posted - 2006.05.30 21:36:00 -
[186]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 30/05/2006 20:16:38 You are all a bunch of retards, dont bring physics into EvE. Its the worst argument EVER dont you understand, so somehow you calculate that lasers are TEHWIN button, and that you should have 1000^49 dmgMOD and be shooting all damage including p0o. There is NO point.
OK! Now bring out arguments about enemies using EAM so they get insane EM/therm resistance and you use the most cap evaah and that you get raped by a slasher all day long. The rest is just a load of crap, nobody takes that serieusly except ultrageeks that think physics > beer...
Dont you see if i say boost gallente and offer t0mb a beer he will give me HAX dmgmod while your crappy arguments wont do jack
Thank you for this well thought out and researched arguement
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.05.30 21:47:00 -
[187]
Edited by: madaluap on 30/05/2006 21:53:47
Originally by: Wicaeed
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 30/05/2006 20:16:38 You are all a bunch of retards, dont bring physics into EvE. Its the worst argument EVER dont you understand, so somehow you calculate that lasers are TEHWIN button, and that you should have 1000^49 dmgMOD and be shooting all damage including p0o. There is NO point.
OK! Now bring out arguments about enemies using EAM so they get insane EM/therm resistance and you use the most cap evaah and that you get raped by a slasher all day long. The rest is just a load of crap, nobody takes that serieusly except ultrageeks that think physics > beer...
Dont you see if i say boost gallente and offer t0mb a beer he will give me HAX dmgmod while your crappy arguments wont do jack
Thank you for this well thought out and researched arguement
It is actually very well thought out, but some people dont get sarcasme including you..->the ever hated rolling eyes.
What i am saying is use INGAME arguments, NOT lameass "the megapulse laser 2 i use for cleaning up the garden does explosive dmg"
Its all for the sake of balance and ammar are just whining, because they think its time for them again.
I have just seen 2 decent arguments and that was someone claiming that medium pulse/beam laser use to much PG and that T2 crystals should have less shots on them, but more of them could be made in the same production run. So that ammar dont have to carry around with millions worth of crystals, because that is rubbish...
Just look @ the gallente or even better the minmatar whine threads: very well thought out posts featuring the diffent dps and tracking vs each gun in its class. Im 100% convinced now that the clippsize is to small, that the difference between each gunclass (example: d180/220/425) are not big enough to justify their fitting problems.
This all is just buhu and thats it. Prove me wrong, i dare you... _________________________________________________
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Felio
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Posted - 2006.05.30 22:33:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Felio on 30/05/2006 22:33:58 You guys forget that our battleships are the best miners so that balances it out right? <<<< Amarr specced Gallente
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Aemilus Brutus
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Posted - 2006.05.30 22:45:00 -
[189]
People do keep pointing to how common good em and thermal resists are, to think that doesn't hurt a faction that only does em and thermal damage is just silly.
Really, how would it hurt game balance if the Amarr got a decent mid-short range explosive or kinetic crystal?
If resists aren't a factor they'll just do the same low damage they do now and people will stop whinning about it (or just find something new to whine about ). I bet it would make Amarr ships a little more useful and less predictable than they are now.
Give Gallente an em damage charge just to be "fair".... I bet more people would understand how it greatly limits your damage, they would probably only use it to hunt Sansha .
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MacQueen
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Posted - 2006.05.31 01:46:00 -
[190]
Well, the main point that I'm here is to give people more attention about Amarr is actually losing their own ballance in the game, their battleship are no longer in line with other battleships.
Oh, yes, I'm whinning, because the fact is even there're lots of Amarr in this game, how offen do you see a good Apocalype pilot in battle ??? Not too many at all. I want to see Amarr ship to have some place in the game, not only sticking with level 4 mission tanking even with only that jobs, a Scorpion with proper set up may out rank us.
Since I've started pvp seriously, my apocalype is sitting and rusting in the station and I wont be bother to assembly it once again.
So, having explosive damage or not to me is not that important. I want to see my apocalype having some place in battle or at least a special role in combat. I want people seriously look at how Amarr have been down graded with time.
Being a leader for a Vietnamese group in game, several times so far, I have seen many newcomer and when they ask me about the game, about the race, I can easily say: Gallente is king of close range combat, Caldari is king of PVE and EW in pvp, Minmatar is owesome with snipping ability and fast ships. But I dont know what to say about my own chosen race: Amarr, what are they good for ???
Tell me !!!
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.05.31 01:56:00 -
[191]
Originally by: madaluap Its all for the sake of balance and ammar are just whining, because they think its time for them again.
Exactly what it is (no sarcasim) and its a large portion of the argument, other races have been boosted, and Amarr has not been boosted and has been nerfed twice (Pulse laser range, and damage mod stacking penalty [Dont give me that "Oh it effected all of us" bull... what other race used 8 damage mods stacked ])
Hence the other races have pulled away from Amarr and we are lacking in PvP because of it.
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Sabine Borgia
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Posted - 2006.05.31 06:29:00 -
[192]
well ive startet amarr cause they looked cool ttheitr ships had a nice design and i always was a laser lover.over time they tooked away my beloved mega pulse they were so cool and uber (ok nerf was needed) but then they go on and nerf the rest too i tried mega beams and dual heavy beams and saw they suck. well i startet to fly caldari cause they are easy to fly and do awesome dmg in compare to my amarr ships. well atm im really sad i fly a absolution with cs skill levl 4 and all beam skills at 5 and 9 mills in gunnery in pve i just suck i try to take on a 500k bs and and need to hammer on it for 5 minutes!!! a cerberus kills such a bs in nothing its not that my beams are firing to slow or hit to less they just do crap dmg its a fact that nearby any ship got em and thermal tank runing and so im ****** i got 32 mills sps now and ******* good beam skills and i see a noob with 4 mill sps go in with a macha and kills like ****. in pvp its the same i cant do dmg over range and at close my tracing sux so i also start to fit acs on my ships cause they hit well and do awesome dmg and let me tank way longer.
lasers atm are really crap the dps is to low and just thermal em dmg sux all other races got at last 3-4 dmg types we just got 2 and they are well tanked.
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Tel Bakhara
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Posted - 2006.05.31 06:52:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Sabine Borgia
lasers atm are really crap the dps is to low and just thermal em dmg sux all other races got at last 3-4 dmg types we just got 2 and they are well tanked.
Most Amarrian I met stick in tanker route, Punisher->Maller->Proph->Apoc as the "better ones", not because they love tanking but that in fact they have to. That the fact that attracts ppl to Amarr is the look and the power of the ship not the bonus or weapon. As an Amarrian ppl get used to waste half of the ship's bonus. And that's why ppl think the renascence of Amarr philosophy is a doom to Khanid Innovation.
Not very accumulate but follow the route as others do, Punisher->Maller->Proph->Apoc, and their T2's, and feel free to mount your projectiles
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.05.31 07:10:00 -
[194]
i dont see gallente using projectiles or minmatar using rails in order to tank and do dmg anywhere near what caldari can.
i gotta agree, something needs to be done to Amarr ships and guns.
--------
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.05.31 07:32:00 -
[195]
Today I fitted out a Completely T2 Maller with Projectiles (220mm AC) it pwned and I hade a nice 1600mm plated tank
Amarr the only race where you spec another races guns to use the ships better
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Asurix
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Posted - 2006.05.31 10:24:00 -
[196]
Amarr deff needs a boost, I specced in it before te nerf but atm I'm training up my minmatar skills.... cuz either everything's overpowered bar amarr, or amarr is just underpowered like crazy, with their main dmg type on the highest resist of the average ship
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.05.31 10:29:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Tel Bakhara
Most Amarrian I met stick in tanker route, Punisher->Maller->Proph->Apoc as the "better ones", not because they love tanking but that in fact they have to. That the fact that attracts ppl to Amarr is the look and the power of the ship not the bonus or weapon.
lies! i saw a vid of the veritable gankageddon when i was a month old noob and i decided amarr was for me i fly the 'gank' half of the amarr ship tree for the most part crusader -> omen -> tier 2 bc? -> geddon they're fun to fly but they still suck relatively speaking
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Brother Tycho
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Posted - 2006.05.31 11:27:00 -
[198]
fit some 1400mm on your apoc with some gyros it works fine then it can tank and do dmg.. hold on aint we ment to use lasers? well when i use beam lasers and a heat sink after 3 mins of tanking and fireing im just about capped out so you fill most your meds with cap chargers and the rest of you lows with cap relays just to tank well but have the dmg of a wet towel.
give the maller, punisher and apoc proj rof bonuses ftw.
-------------[B«+tHd« T¦¦H+]-------------
åå Spreading the good word since beta åå |
Astrum Ludus
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Posted - 2006.05.31 12:23:00 -
[199]
Having arrived in 0.0 and found I was unable to kill rats or tank them, despite having 8 guns and a 7 slot (inc Injector) tank, and discovering my mate in a raven with 500k less sp than me said they were quite hard, then went on to explain in his book that meant the tank took 30 seconds to break, I was just about ready to jack the whole thing in.
I get a grip on myself and realise I've been here not 24 hours and only tried one setup so I ask my older and wiser corp mates and the responce is 'fit 800s' or 'fit miner IIs'
I don't want to fit god damn 800s I want lasers that work!
Can I ask, is there a single role performed by an Amarr ship that isn't performed better by some other ship from another race? be it damage output, tanking, ewar, drones or anything else you care to mention.
/me needs to breath
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Dr Rane
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Posted - 2006.05.31 12:53:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Morphee Edited by: Morphee on 29/05/2006 15:47:07
First of all, just for the sake of concept, how do you explain a laser doing explosive dmg? It's particles, not a warhead.
ehm this might have been explained earlier, but i couldn't bother reading the whole thread.
first of all, particles you say, then what is a warhead made of? second, what is an explosion really? huge amount of energy released in a short period of time. if you hit an atom or molecule with energy(like laser) its electrons will "jump" to a higher level of energy, a ms later it will fall back to its normal level, releasing the exact same amount of energy but in a different direction. voila! an explosion might occur.
and third, most important. EVE is a GAME! not a lot of eve's universe follows the fysical or chemical laws of nature...
im not english myself so my abilitys to explain might be a bit low.
Originally by: Oveur I'm Tuxford.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.31 13:18:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Astrum Ludus
Can I ask, is there a single role performed by an Amarr ship that isn't performed better by some other ship from another race? be it damage output, tanking, ewar, drones or anything else you care to mention.
/me needs to breath
well the only one i can think of is the Amarr freighter but that only wins due to its sexy looks.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Dr Rane
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Posted - 2006.05.31 13:31:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: Astrum Ludus
Can I ask, is there a single role performed by an Amarr ship that isn't performed better by some other ship from another race? be it damage output, tanking, ewar, drones or anything else you care to mention.
/me needs to breath
well the only one i can think of is the Amarr freighter but that only wins due to its sexy looks.
i take it you like large women?
Originally by: Oveur I'm Tuxford.
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Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.05.31 14:23:00 -
[203]
I see no reason in giving lasers explosive damage unless they give hybrids some other dmage type than therm and kin. Those are the two most tanked dmagae types! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.31 14:25:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Malken beer>physics in eve
To be 100% exact, I think the physics in eve are a product of beer
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.06.01 05:22:00 -
[205]
This thread will not die, continue to whine! We will be heard!
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Felio
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Posted - 2006.06.01 05:25:00 -
[206]
/whine. I kinda feel left out, everyone else got buffed :(.
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.06.01 06:08:00 -
[207]
Yeah, dev recognition pretty plz? show us that you do care!
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Vampirka
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Posted - 2006.06.01 06:22:00 -
[208]
Give back the Maller and Omen cpu that got nerfed away in Mk 2.
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Apolyon I
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Posted - 2006.06.01 06:49:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Vampirka Give back the Maller and Omen cpu that got nerfed away in Mk 2.
I think the Omen and Maller are fine atm, Maller still one of the best cruiser inagme, there's no point to make them overpower.
Explosive damage for laser is totally no neccessary, if laser are too ineffective, slight improve in rof or damage should fix it.
However, I do agree that the Geddon and Apoc should have some improvements, some more CPU and grid for the Geddon to enable them to use their 8th high power slot.
The Apoc is particularly difficult, it still cant find it own role in the game yet. But as Amarr being good tanker, I would suggest to change the Cap bonus to armor resistant bonus, slightly improve armor HP and also trash one turret hardpoint and make another low power slot. It will make the Apoc the best tanker. Some more grid for the apoc would be nice as well
Another suggestion i would add in, is improve tach rof and damage about 10-15%, then greatly increase both grid required for tach and grid output of the Apoc to somehow only enable the apoc to use 7 tach with 3-4 RCU and almost impossible to load those on the geddon. But it will be to difficult to implement btw.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.06.01 07:03:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Apolyon I
Originally by: Vampirka Give back the Maller and Omen cpu that got nerfed away in Mk 2.
I think the Omen and Maller are fine atm, Maller still one of the best cruiser inagme, there's no point to make them overpower.
best guns to use on a maller is not beam or pulse weapons.
Quote:
Explosive damage for laser is totally no neccessary, if laser are too ineffective, slight improve in rof or damage should fix it.
wrong, a higher RoF would only empty the capacitor even faster and make it even harder to tank anything also.
Quote:
However, I do agree that the Geddon and Apoc should have some improvements, some more CPU and grid for the Geddon to enable them to use their 8th high power slot.
by using the 8th highslot on a geddon more effective??? you do know that the geddon only has 7 turret slots. so how would the 8th slot help with tanking any dmg wich is the main problem with the geddon compared to lets say a Dominix wich is a Tier1 BS also.
Quote:
The Apoc is particularly difficult, it still cant find it own role in the game yet. But as Amarr being good tanker, I would suggest to change the Cap bonus to armor resistant bonus, slightly improve armor HP and also trash one turret hardpoint and make another low power slot. It will make the Apoc the best tanker. Some more grid for the apoc would be nice as well
im sorry but i dont think you ever tried to tank anything in a Apoc while firing a set of megapulses. so a slight increase in resists and have the guns suck 50% more cap is your idea of tanking better? how do you suggest that amarr will ever be able to kill anything ?, with no guns running it cant kill anything, with guns running it will have no cap to rep with in 20sec???
Quote:
Another suggestion i would add in, is improve tach rof and damage about 10-15%, then greatly increase both grid required for tach and grid output of the Apoc to somehow only enable the apoc to use 7 tach with 3-4 RCU and almost impossible to load those on the geddon. But it will be to difficult to implement btw.
once again, you dont fly Amarr BS do you? you can fit long range guns and do pretty well on a apoc but for long range the geddon does better in every respect. the huge problem is the shortgame where both Amarr BS are inferior to any other BS due to they cant tank/do dmg enough at the same time.
i think its hilarious that a apoc can fit projectile weapons and do more dmg + tank better at the same time then it can while using their racial weapons, and do all dmg types also at the same time.
before you suggest something about amarr make sure you atleast can and have been flying them in pvp for awhile. same goes for Tuxford.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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