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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
386
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Posted - 2014.09.24 12:48:00 -
[361] - Quote
Xorth Adimus wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: One important module tweak that applies significantly to these ships (we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog) is that in Oceanus Light Missile Launchers will have their Rate of Fire decreased by ~6%.
This nerf is stupid. I don't see the point of it?: Rate of fire isn't going to stop fleets of LML ships being able to produce high volley damage so you are still going to get fleets of these things, so who is this nerf for? Solo play nerf? The only real issue with light missile launchers is the long range on a weapon, even at T1. Plated interceptors (Malediction) is possibly the most stupid thing I have ever heard, please go fit a 200mm on one and try it for yourself I doubt any minor buff will make up for putting a plate on a ceptor. Also you are aware how much damage a rocket malediction does right? Why the hell are you going to want to go within 10kms of any ship to use rockets in a Malediction? I was really hoping for more from ceptors. I also wish that rockets where a useful weapon system Please go figure out what role you want for each interceptor for each race and ensure it can actually fulfil it before you start claiming the interceptor is fixed/ updated. 'They are all specialised fast frigates, that can warp in bubbles and use racial weapons.' Sorry it just doesn't cut it. Maybe because an "interceptor" was never meant to kill all the things. It was meant to get a fast first tackle. Then either die holding it, or have just enough defensive dps to survive drones long enough for the rest of the gang to arrive to the fight.
All the people itt complaining about the dps effects on tackle ceptors and how they die to some other frigate or destroyers etc are missing the point (nice word play in that).
As for light missiles, XG's post demonstrated you can currently fit for better dps and alpha at extreme range with light missiles. I doubt 6% nerf on rof is going to mean much. It nerfs the dps only slightly. The same range and better alpha are still there.
As other posters have said, it is the range that is the real problem with light missiles on some hulls. This is the Crow problem. Nothing here seems to effect that.
Leaving the Crow aside, I think the extreme range that only Caldari destroyers can get is overdone. 90km range is overdone when the next best racial destroyers are struggling to get 50+km with long range weapons. Attempting to fit a catalyst or talwar for sniping is a sad endeavor. Conversely a rocket corax or blaster corm is less of a joke.
At the small and medium ship level a gang of ships with a range advantage currently have too much power. Being a brawler in this game is only setting yourself up for disappointment when your targets buddies arrive. I'm not complaining about buddies. Bait tactics are all fine. But a range advantage (oh yeah mordus ships) can either win you the dual or provide you the gtfo option if it wasn't a dual. In some way the balancing team needs to reexamine the weight of range advantages in the game.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
May Arethusa
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
20
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Posted - 2014.09.24 13:02:00 -
[362] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I have to wonder why the, already slow, RoF of LML's was deemed still too fast and in need of a 6% nerf to every ship using them. Probably to make sure the light missile corax has less dps than a sniper corm. Corax currently has both ALPHA and dps advantage. Slight loss in DPS is worth it though, instant damage and the inability to outrun turret hits. What's the missile velocity on those corax missiles? 8km/s? Not really enough for the really pesky ships.
Over 10km/s.
As far as the Corm/Corax goes, I'd maintain they're already fairly balanced. The Corm is faster, applies instant DPS, and can switch ammo to add another 110-140 DPS at the cost of range. This is before considering the Corm can apply damage at over 100km due to it's fall-off, rather than going from Hit to Miss if you stray outside your missile range.
The Corax on the other hand, has better cap life, and an extra mid-slot. It takes the missiles 8-9 seconds to reach their target, and the T1 version is restricted to a single ammo type. A Corax with T2 Launchers will still come out ahead in both Alpha and DPS, but will do so well within the Cormorant's optimal range. Just like it does now.
Anything I missed? Seems pretty fair to me. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
821
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Posted - 2014.09.24 14:18:00 -
[363] - Quote
the corax on the other hand has no fitting whatsoever, and is about as fast as a 3 trimark 1600 maller (just like all the other new destroyers). |
sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
73
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Posted - 2014.09.24 14:55:00 -
[364] - Quote
i really dont think the skill change on the malediction was warranted, as the nerf to lmls alone is enough.
and for those who say the crow change is a nerf: its not. look at the numbers and you get an extra bonus.
only problem now is you get problems fitting your ship. IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
293
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Posted - 2014.09.24 15:00:00 -
[365] - Quote
sten mattson wrote:i really dont think the skill change on the malediction was warranted, as the nerf to lmls alone is enough.
and for those who say the crow change is a nerf: its not. look at the numbers and you get an extra bonus.
only problem now is you get problems fitting your ship. The crow change is a nerf if you try and fly it as a fast tackle, if you use it differently then yes, it is just a change. The missile nerf though.... still waiting on some Dev info on that, at this point I'm anticipating a Dev post sometime, better measured in hours than days, before the Oceanus drop. If it sounds like I don't have a lot of faith in CCP in this matter well, I don't. Especially when the first hint of such a large change is announced as something that is going to happen, not something put up for feedback. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2535
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Posted - 2014.09.24 15:47:00 -
[366] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I have to wonder why the, already slow, RoF of LML's was deemed still too fast and in need of a 6% nerf to every ship using them. Probably to make sure the light missile corax has less dps than a sniper corm. Corax currently has both ALPHA and dps advantage. Slight loss in DPS is worth it though, instant damage and the inability to outrun turret hits. What's the missile velocity on those corax missiles? 8km/s? Not really enough for the really pesky ships.
OK, so they aren't effective against 0.05% of the ships in the game. Well played sir. Well played.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2535
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Posted - 2014.09.24 15:49:00 -
[367] - Quote
May Arethusa wrote:Anything I missed? Perfect tracking of light missiles at all ranges. Otherwise, you're on point. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2535
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Posted - 2014.09.24 15:58:00 -
[368] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:Attempting to fit a catalyst or talwar for sniping is a sad endeavor. You can fit the Talwar for sniping as well.
In this case: Max missile range 94km, dps 163, 1922 m/s.
Note that 1922 m/s is faster than the Sniper Cormorant at 1644 m/s. So the comments about light missile destroyers being slower than turret destroyers has just been invalidated.
Same lock range (109km), slightly more EHP (3.95k vs 3.72k) Cap stable, vs not cap stable for Cormorant
[Talwar, Longbow] Overdrive Injector System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
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Sweet Times
Riptide Riot
18
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Posted - 2014.09.24 17:01:00 -
[369] - Quote
long point bonus malidiction short rocket bonus dps.
this seems completly insane and totaly another neejerk dumb idea from ccp maybe we should go back to 2 large patches per year to stop these stupid changes we are now seeing |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.09.24 17:22:00 -
[370] - Quote
Sweet Times wrote:long point bonus malidiction short rocket bonus dps.
this seems completly insane and totaly another neejerk dumb idea from ccp maybe we should go back to 2 large patches per year to stop these stupid changes we are now seeing tackle.. it tackles thing. Applying 70dps is irrelevent. Rockets kill drones faster while you wait for gang to arrive. Speed tank the bigger weapon system. Sure seems to fit the fleet tackle role.
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Sweet Times
Riptide Riot
18
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Posted - 2014.09.24 17:42:00 -
[371] - Quote
yeah yeah yeah you can do that with everyship pick out something that it is great for the point of my post is that the bonus are just dumb now taking a ship every1 tought was ok for its class and sticking it in a matchbox for what its good for.
you can say that about every inti that has a fleet to back it up mate |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
255
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Posted - 2014.09.24 20:14:00 -
[372] - Quote
Just want to point out: if you aren't using T2 or Faction LML, you are getting nerfed even more due to module tiericide.
Prototype 'Arbalest' Light Missile Launcher (Current) -Capacity: 0.72 m3 -Rate of Fire: 12 s -Heat Damage: 3 HP -CPU Useage: 17 tf
Ample Light Missile Launcher (Oceanus) -Capacity: 0.66 m3 -Rate of Fire: 13.6 s -Heat Damage: 3.4 HP -CPU Useage: 21 tf
Compact Light Missile Launcher (Oceanus) -Capacity: 0.63 m3 -Rate of Fire: 13.6 s -Heat Damage: 3.4 HP -CPU Useage: 16 tf |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
293
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Posted - 2014.09.24 20:17:00 -
[373] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Just want to point out: if you aren't using T2 or Faction LML, you are getting nerfed even more due to module tiericide.
Prototype 'Arbalest' Light Missile Launcher (Current) -Capacity: 0.72 m3 -Rate of Fire: 12 s -Heat Damage: 3 HP -CPU Useage: 17 tf
Ample Light Missile Launcher (Oceanus) -Capacity: 0.66 m3 -Rate of Fire: 13.6 s -Heat Damage: 3.4 HP -CPU Useage: 21 tf
Compact Light Missile Launcher (Oceanus) -Capacity: 0.63 m3 -Rate of Fire: 13.6 s -Heat Damage: 3.4 HP -CPU Useage: 16 tf So we're getting launchers with less missiles, that fire slower and edited? Splendid!!!
Where did you get that info? Was it EFT? Because I haven't seen specifics of any kind for the module tiericide, but it's also very possible I just missed it.
Edit: Ok, correction, like an idiot I misread the data and I see that the new ones will burn out slower. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
255
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Posted - 2014.09.24 20:19:00 -
[374] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Where did you get that info? Was it EFT? Because I haven't seen specifics of any kind for the module tiericide, but it's also very possible I just missed it. SiSi
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
293
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Posted - 2014.09.24 20:21:00 -
[375] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Where did you get that info? Was it EFT? Because I haven't seen specifics of any kind for the module tiericide, but it's also very possible I just missed it. SiSi Silly me... that other place where they put stuff before the actual release... Any estimate of the impact of these new launchers on something like a Kestrel or Caracal? |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
255
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Posted - 2014.09.24 20:28:00 -
[376] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Any estimate of the impact of these new launchers on something like a Kestrel or Caracal? Caracal should be safe for now as, unless I'm grossly mistaken and something terrible happened to them last I paid attention, they use rapid lights, which have escaped this round of meta murder.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
897
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Posted - 2014.09.24 22:28:00 -
[377] - Quote
perhaps the raptor could get a stronger damage bonus? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.09.24 22:33:00 -
[378] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:perhaps the raptor could get a stronger damage bonus? you can get over 200dps before heat with current raptor. Think thats plenty. Plus caldari blaster boats are more optimal bonused than gal, which are damage/tracking based. with raptor changes i can still get over 200dps, now it will have a web <3
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
897
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Posted - 2014.09.24 23:01:00 -
[379] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Harvey James wrote:perhaps the raptor could get a stronger damage bonus? you can get over 200dps before heat with current raptor. Think thats plenty. Plus caldari blaster boats are more optimal bonused than gal, which are damage/tracking based. with raptor changes i can still get over 200dps, now it will have a web <3
over 200 dps?? .. seems unlikely . unless you sacrificed your tank for it Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please |
Kaylynn Natasha
Altra Velox Corrosive.
0
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Posted - 2014.09.24 23:19:00 -
[380] - Quote
wow. way to kick the crow in the face....
its fine the way it is. the damage bonus to missiles actually means they can fight... and explosion radius does NOTHING as compensation. its useless. and loosing a low slow for another missile high slot? what the heck good is that? fitting a crow is already tough enough, especially having to use a low for a power or cpu mod or even both. now we lose one of those, in favor of a slot that requires even more pg/cpu? how does that make any kind of sense?
if the concern of crows is that they are able to put out too much damage from long range, (wich honestly is where ALL ceptors should be working at, is the 20-30km range) then address that concern directly, by simply removing or reducing the damage modifer. but killing the ability to even FIT a long range weapon setup makes zero sense. an intie up close is a webbed, scrammed and DEAD intie. it needs to be able to maintain its distance, tackle at that distance, and force larger ships to counter with either drones, stabs, or thier own intie support.
if the issue is light missiles, (and the crow and mael use these) - then perhaps adjusting the damae / rof on the LML/RLML is the way to go, then apply a bonus to LML systems to ships that need it the way it is now, so ships like the kessy, would gain a bonus to lml rof/damage, to counter the nerfing. but ceptors would not get that bonus.
please rethink the changes, - else i fear ceptors will become a thing of the past, and tatical combat will turn into nothing but everyone just rushing and fighting at 0. i dont play eve for slugfests. i enjoy the tatical and strategic element. any low IQ dummy can tank up and brawl at 0. reward those who use tatics and can fight at a distance to counter those aforementioned close range dummies.
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.09.25 00:18:00 -
[381] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:adjustments to the Crow and Malediction (which are a bit too good in their light missile configurations currently) Exactly how is a ship "too good" with dmg when you can put any UNBONUSED turrets on it and somehow do more dps than the bonused T2 missiles/rockets that are intended for those hulls?
That is also before the proposed rate of fire nerf for the launchers....please clarify this. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1553
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Posted - 2014.09.25 01:51:00 -
[382] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Just want to point out: if you aren't using T2 or Faction LML, you are getting nerfed even more due to module tiericide.
I'd note that just because it's on SiSi doesn't mean it's coming with Oceanus. They didn't list missile launchers in the module list they were tiericiding, so that could just be an early Sisi update for the next release also that isn't finalised yet.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.09.25 01:51:00 -
[383] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Harvey James wrote:perhaps the raptor could get a stronger damage bonus? you can get over 200dps before heat with current raptor. Think thats plenty. Plus caldari blaster boats are more optimal bonused than gal, which are damage/tracking based. with raptor changes i can still get over 200dps, now it will have a web <3 over 200 dps?? .. seems unlikely . unless you sacrificed your tank for it
[Raptor, Blaptor] Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1MN Afterburner II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S [empty high slot]
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II
5k EHP roughly, 211 DPS, 242 with heat. Okish for solo'ing in LS, just treat it like a claw/crusader, assume 3rd mid is always an MSE or MASB. With null shoots out at scram range, and still does around 170-190dps at 8km. With the buff, i can fit a web, and still have room for MWD, though i think you have to drop down to ions.
Now that it has a web, it should be able to handle a ranis quite easily, since it will out range it. Raptor is also faster, so it can outpace the taranis in the scram/web race.
From what i can tell, if you go max dps on both fits, the raptor will win in EHP, and its going to come down to the raptor controlling range from the beginning. Otherwise the high dps of the ranis will overwhelm the tank. So, it comes down more to pilot skill, as it should, instead of inferior slot layout.
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Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
256
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Posted - 2014.09.25 02:58:00 -
[384] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I'd note that just because it's on SiSi doesn't mean it's coming with Oceanus. They didn't list missile launchers in the module list they were tiericiding, so that could just be an early Sisi update for the next release also that isn't finalised yet. Actually, they did. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1553
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Posted - 2014.09.25 03:26:00 -
[385] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:I'd note that just because it's on SiSi doesn't mean it's coming with Oceanus. They didn't list missile launchers in the module list they were tiericiding, so that could just be an early Sisi update for the next release also that isn't finalised yet. Actually, they did. Well dang, I just read the print version and I'm sure they weren't in that. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
293
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Posted - 2014.09.25 03:32:00 -
[386] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:I'd note that just because it's on SiSi doesn't mean it's coming with Oceanus. They didn't list missile launchers in the module list they were tiericiding, so that could just be an early Sisi update for the next release also that isn't finalised yet. Actually, they did. Well dang, I just read the print version and I'm sure they weren't in that. Yea, they're being pretty slippery with the tiericide info so far. But, hey, there's still 5 days for feedback on it...
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1553
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Posted - 2014.09.25 03:36:00 -
[387] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Yea, they're being pretty slippery with the tiericide info so far. But, hey, there's still 5 days for feedback on it... If T2 stay the same and T1 either stay the same or get better, I'm ok with stuff in the middle moving, hard to say if it will be appropriate since some of it probably is meant as a nerf to meta 4, since meta 4 was too good in some cases relative to T2 anyway. But yea, would be nice to get info or get it bumped. |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
99
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Posted - 2014.09.25 06:08:00 -
[388] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:I'd note that just because it's on SiSi doesn't mean it's coming with Oceanus. They didn't list missile launchers in the module list they were tiericiding, so that could just be an early Sisi update for the next release also that isn't finalised yet. Actually, they did.
its funny though, he did not say missile launchers yet it comes up on he text. He also mentions that they will no important stuff like guns later which confuses the matter even more. (Are missiles not important ?)
Only time will tell i guess.
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Zao Elongur
Porphyr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.09.25 11:10:00 -
[389] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Just want to point out: if you aren't using T2 or Faction LML, you are getting nerfed even more due to module tiericide.
Ok, so malediction gets a triple nerf ...
at least we get to choose short range ammo to increase our dps in shorter ranges ... oh yeah i forgot , thats only for turrets :/ |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
293
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Posted - 2014.09.25 11:12:00 -
[390] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:I'd note that just because it's on SiSi doesn't mean it's coming with Oceanus. They didn't list missile launchers in the module list they were tiericiding, so that could just be an early Sisi update for the next release also that isn't finalised yet. Actually, they did. its funny though, he did not say missile launchers yet it comes up on he text. He also mentions that they will no important stuff like guns later which confuses the matter even more. (Are missiles not important ?) Only time will tell i guess. I noticed that as well and had similar thoughts, but I decided that it's probably more likely that he just forgot and doesn't view the LML nerf "important" in the bigger scheme. Of course, we could stop with the conspiracy crafting if they would find the time to get around to posting the tiericide info for the patch that drops in 5 days. Or, maybe, it's a surprise! The interceptor and interdictor threads are 8 days old now, 5 days to the patch, and still no Devs to be seen around these parts.... |
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