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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3520
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:01:55 -
[1111] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Menkary Hardluck wrote:Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. I'm not sure what game you play, but obviously not this one. Training up a character is as easy as buying a bunch of PLEX an hitting the Character Bazaar. Not exactly the killer grind you seem to think it is. Mr Epeen
Exactly, and even if you did the old fashioned way, you plug in the skills, set up your queue and then go watch Walking Dead. Damned hard.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1900
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:03:27 -
[1112] - Quote
u3pog wrote:Don't forget people on the forums are actually a small percentage of the whole player base, so whether we approve or disapprove this idea, we do not speak for all of them. We are expressing our little, humble opinion. I don't think CSM can speak for us too. Sure they are our voice in CCP, but they are not our mind. The fact that I voted for someone doesn't mean that he/she always expresses my opinion.
If CCP has doubts about this after reading the thread, I suggest a poll to all players, maybe shown in the launcher or something. If not, they could "polish" this idea based on feedback and then release it.
it takes a lot more than the usual forum crowd to hit 55+ pages in a day. although how many are alt posts from forum regulars I couldn't say. but I do imagine this kinda news spreads fast and gets a lot of people that don't usually post to say something.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Draugo Rana
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
91
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:04:18 -
[1113] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Menkary Hardluck wrote:Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win. Another player ignorant of the character bazaar.
Another player who can't be bothered to actually read some of the previous responses addressing the point why the existence of a character bazaar is not really an excuse to making things worse.
Masuat'aa Matari is recruiting Minmatar freedom fighters
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Daniel Westelius
Specter Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
5
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:05:00 -
[1114] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I don't like this. Could be worse, but I don't like it.
A lowish hard cap would make it not as bad. But it still leads to "I just subscribed, but unless I spend more real money, I'll always be behind"
What is your point exactly? Currently new subscribers will ALWAYS be behind, this just gives those new subscribers a chance to partially catch up if they are willing to spend the money.
I have to give you some props though for at least stating some of your reasoning, unlike the rest of the CSM members that have chimed in so far. For future CSM members that are thinking about posting, give some reasoning behind your position and not just "I don't like it because I don't like it." |
Zovex
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:05:14 -
[1115] - Quote
I support this idea/change.
I've bought and sold over 50 toons on the bazaar.
This is just another way to advance the game.
+1 |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3520
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 00:05:53 -
[1116] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:u3pog wrote:Don't forget people on the forums are actually a small percentage of the whole player base, so whether we approve or disapprove this idea, we do not speak for all of them. We are expressing our little, humble opinion. I don't think CSM can speak for us too. Sure they are our voice in CCP, but they are not our mind. The fact that I voted for someone doesn't mean that he/she always expresses my opinion.
If CCP has doubts about this after reading the thread, I suggest a poll to all players, maybe shown in the launcher or something. If not, they could "polish" this idea based on feedback and then release it.
it takes a lot more than the usual forum crowd to hit 55+ pages in a day. although how many are alt posts from forum regulars I couldn't say. but I do imagine this kinda news spreads fast and gets a lot of people that don't usually post to say something.
And in sheer blinding ignorance too.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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darkchild's corpse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:06:27 -
[1117] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:darkchild's corpse wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:This isn't taking ANYTHING away from anyone, it's only giving more to those who don't have. this is (more or less) true but not the point. i think many ppl in here forget that something like this will also be possible with the new thing: imagine you are camped inside a station with a few ppl and noone of you can use jammers for example. or a logistic or whatever you would need to win. usually you would have to buy the skill and train it until you are good enough. the other option would be to buy a character who can already use/fly it. none of these solutions works instantly. but if you are rich, you can simply buy skillpoints instantly and turn the whole situation. and this is one example where this system would give more to those who don't have wich is just not right. That makes some assumptions about how this works: a) it's available where you are docked in sufficient quantities to meet your immediate need or b) it's on contact and redeemable anywhere or c) you already had the free SP from the purchase already applied If it requires the first case, which one would hope it will, it's no different then having a mod you need in station for purchase when you have an immediate need.
true but you were always able to buy it elsewhere and haul it with an alt. but to my understanding the point of skillpoints in general is that not every player is meant to do anything anytime. you have to spend time to learn something. this would no longer be the case. |
Soltys
25
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:06:33 -
[1118] - Quote
Menkary Hardluck wrote:Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win.
Which part of training character is in any way or form related to being hard ? And which choices are difficult to make ?
Come on ... |
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Citizens
33
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:07:51 -
[1119] - Quote
5-10k online in last summer? CCP again make blog about micro transaction? Players need destroy jita monument for stop idiot developers? **** storm can destroy Iceland CCP STOP IT!!! And there my gold svipul, premium +50% loot and bounty, and gold ammo +50% tracking and damage? |
Shinjou Hanabi
CLOUD TEMPLE Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:08:05 -
[1120] - Quote
am i undertood wring or it's really about trading SP? maybe i understood wrong because my English is bad |
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Doc Hyland
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
4
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:08:08 -
[1121] - Quote
This is a terrible idea.
Look, if you want to change the Character Bazaar... then change the Character Bazaar. What you're doing is something else entirely.
Do this:
Have an in-game UI (like the one used for Industry/Blueprints). If the seller followed the rules exactly, he can click on "Sell this Character on the Bazaar." It can be an auction, or a "buy it now" style. Seller gets to choose how much isk, etc etc. One of the requirements should be an alternate character where the ISK would go when the character is sold. People can browse through all the characters for sale.
Once the seller clicks, "Sell Me!" it logs the seller out and the character is unavailable to you. Once somebody buys it in-game, the character is automatically transferred to the buyer's account (like when somebody buys plex - they redeem it) and the ISK is transferred to the character the seller selected as the receiver. Done. Simple.
As far as changing the name and looks... too bad. In EVE, you're the character, not yourself. The great benefit of this game is that the characters are static. I never have to worry about an old friend changing their name and disappearing. |
Portmanteau
oooh ponies
78
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:08:53 -
[1122] - Quote
This is worse than thousand dollar jeans. CCP |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3520
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:09:18 -
[1123] - Quote
Draugo Rana wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Menkary Hardluck wrote:Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win. Another player ignorant of the character bazaar. Another player who can't be bothered to actually read some of the previous responses addressing the point why the existence of a character bazaar is not really an excuse to making things worse.
What, a player can side step training by going to the character bazaar with a load of ISK. They can get that ISK by selling PLEX in game.
Further, if a character does buy an SP packet, how is it any less "hard" to figure out where to allocate those SP?
That is the only hard thing about training, the actual acquisition of SP is dead easy.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1645
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:09:44 -
[1124] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:true but you were always able to buy it elsewhere and haul it with an alt. but to my understanding the point of skillpoints in general is that not every player is meant to do anything anytime. you have to spend time to learn something. this would no longer be the case. How much SP do you think qualifies that statement of doing anything, and how trivial do you think obtaining that would be with the suggested system? |
Grorious Reader
Mongorian Horde
37
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:10:06 -
[1125] - Quote
This system is better than the character bazaar. It does nothing significant that the character bazaar doesn't already allow. Players can already buy skill points!. That's what buying a character on the bazaar is. This is not a new game mechanic. It's a rework of an existing one. I don't know why you "omg no lol terrible idea CCP" idiots can't grasp that. Just because it comes in the form of a full character does not mean it isn't buying skill points. This system is just making it more accessible. And honestly, who gives a crap if you can fly a capital ship sooner than you normally would. It's still the same capital ship anyone who spent the time to train it themselves is flying. You just paid way more for it.
I assume the character bazaar would go away if this system went in place.
The only problem I foresee is pricing. Usage buy richer players for training alts could price actual new players out of the market.
For some perspective on the diminishing returns aspect. An 80mil SP character would have to buy over a year worth of SP just to do Fighters V. That's just that one level of that one skill, not any prereqs for it. |
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
597
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:10:48 -
[1126] - Quote
Please make ISK perchasing and RMT legal as well. That would round the circle. |
Nicholas Vierra
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:12:04 -
[1127] - Quote
Going to throw in my two cents here, This is not a good Idea in my opinion. This will unbalance the current skill system, as it gives both High SP characters and Low SP Characters the ability to pay real world money to increase their skill level, possibly through PLEX Transactions then ISK transactions, almost creating a Pay to win scenario.
For new players you should instead offer them the option of purchasing a starter pack that contains a training speed bonus that lasts 3 months, and can only be activated within the first six months of EVE.
For characters more than two years old, they should have the option to purchase a "Cognitive reset device" that allows players to change what skills their sp is allocated to. This would be a system that could only be used once each year after.
Otherwise, Leave the skill Point accumulation alone, or reduce training times on certain "Core" Skills that every character needs to train. Possibly add additional implants that increase skill accumulation beyond the +5 level that can be purchased through arum, or, maybe acquired through Drifter events?
I understand the desire to enhance the player experience in game, but I don't feel this is it. Possibly what you should look at instead is building on EVE's story, like you have with the Drifters and the Scope events, and as rewards, offer rare skill bonus packs. Perhaps random Player Specific events that pop up from time to time that offer you as a reward a skill point packet that you could either sell, or use, and your chances of being assigned one of these events increase based on the amount of time you spend active in space. Something perhaps a bit more immersive than your standard mission, and more involved. In other words, a special sort of reward for active playtime, instead of passive playtime.
As for this Character Bazaar, It is not a service I see myself using, but it is great to have all the same. and who knows? I may decide to trade in one of my old PI Characters. Eve Changes, People change, and giving players the freedom to change their characters the same way they have changed may be a benefit. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
170
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 00:12:45 -
[1128] - Quote
Seems like this thread has gone downhill.. There were some good points made on the first 30 or so pages.
I like how people keep simply stating character bazaar as an argument for implementing this idea. The character bazaar and this proposal are two completely separate things. Getting unallocated SP is of many magnitudes more desirable than purchasing a character from the bazaar.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Stragak
20
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:14:44 -
[1129] - Quote
What is so hard about doing it for name changes etc. That is only given to you on character transactions that occur as a surcharge. Both parties would pay a transaction fee and makes it 'nearly' prohibitive of being abused with ~60 dollars if people are doing it to themselves. And if you do it and your accounts are linked you get flagged as 'formally known as'.
Between the $60 in charges excluding account charges I am sure we can find a middle ground.
"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches".
In good humor, and slight annoyance,
Boiglio -á-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1314
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 00:15:11 -
[1130] - Quote
Nicholas Vierra wrote:For new players you should instead offer them the option of purchasing a starter pack that contains a training speed bonus that lasts 3 months, and can only be activated within the first six months of EVE.
Already in game with severe age restrictions: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cerebral_Accelerator
[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b]
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3520
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:15:24 -
[1131] - Quote
Nicholas Vierra wrote:Going to throw in my two cents here, This is not a good Idea in my opinion. This will unbalance the current skill system, as it gives both High SP characters and Low SP Characters the ability to pay real world money to increase their skill level, possibly through PLEX Transactions then ISK transactions, almost creating a Pay to win scenario.
For new players you should instead offer them the option of purchasing a starter pack that contains a training speed bonus that lasts 3 months, and can only be activated within the first six months of EVE.
For characters more than two years old, they should have the option to purchase a "Cognitive reset device" that allows players to change what skills their sp is allocated to. This would be a system that could only be used once each year after.
Otherwise, Leave the skill Point accumulation alone, or reduce training times on certain "Core" Skills that every character needs to train. Possibly add additional implants that increase skill accumulation beyond the +5 level that can be purchased through arum, or, maybe acquired through Drifter events?
I understand the desire to enhance the player experience in game, but I don't feel this is it. Possibly what you should look at instead is building on EVE's story, like you have with the Drifters and the Scope events, and as rewards, offer rare skill bonus packs. Perhaps random Player Specific events that pop up from time to time that offer you as a reward a skill point packet that you could either sell, or use, and your chances of being assigned one of these events increase based on the amount of time you spend active in space. Something perhaps a bit more immersive than your standard mission, and more involved. In other words, a special sort of reward for active playtime, instead of passive playtime.
As for this Character Bazaar, It is not a service I see myself using, but it is great to have all the same. and who knows? I may decide to trade in one of my old PI Characters. Eve Changes, People change, and giving players the freedom to change their characters the same way they have changed may be a benefit.
I have 123 million SP currently. That means if I buy a 500,000 SP packet I get just 50,000 SP to allocate. It is generally a horrible deal unless I become grotesquely rich in game. I mean so rich I can throw away a trillion ISK and not even really notice. And even then going tot the character bazaar and buying a character with the skills I'd be getting via SP packets would be far, far more efficient ISK wise.
So, maybe you should try actually reading the dev blog first.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Skorpion Medion
Fink Operations The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:15:45 -
[1132] - Quote
Nicholas Vierra wrote:Going to throw in my two cents here, This is not a good Idea in my opinion. This will unbalance the current skill system, as it gives both High SP characters and Low SP Characters the ability to pay real world money to increase their skill level, possibly through PLEX Transactions then ISK transactions, almost creating a Pay to win scenario.
For new players you should instead offer them the option of purchasing a starter pack that contains a training speed bonus that lasts 3 months, and can only be activated within the first six months of EVE.
For characters more than two years old, they should have the option to purchase a "Cognitive reset device" that allows players to change what skills their sp is allocated to. This would be a system that could only be used once each year after.
Otherwise, Leave the skill Point accumulation alone, or reduce training times on certain "Core" Skills that every character needs to train. Possibly add additional implants that increase skill accumulation beyond the +5 level that can be purchased through arum, or, maybe acquired through Drifter events?
I understand the desire to enhance the player experience in game, but I don't feel this is it. Possibly what you should look at instead is building on EVE's story, like you have with the Drifters and the Scope events, and as rewards, offer rare skill bonus packs. Perhaps random Player Specific events that pop up from time to time that offer you as a reward a skill point packet that you could either sell, or use, and your chances of being assigned one of these events increase based on the amount of time you spend active in space. Something perhaps a bit more immersive than your standard mission, and more involved. In other words, a special sort of reward for active playtime, instead of passive playtime.
As for this Character Bazaar, It is not a service I see myself using, but it is great to have all the same. and who knows? I may decide to trade in one of my old PI Characters. Eve Changes, People change, and giving players the freedom to change their characters the same way they have changed may be a benefit. best post Imho, alot of reasoning, I love the idea about Cognitive reset device, and the starter pack,
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Sarah Saoirse
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:16:17 -
[1133] - Quote
So far, depending on what the costs ultimately work out to for the skill extractors, this looks good - the resale value of high-SP characters is preserved, we gain a often-requested tool for SP reallocation so people stop complaining about the 5 million points of mining they have on their combat characters, and new pilots get a way to pick up SP faster.
The only real downside is the market for lower SP characters will vanish - so the industry of purpose built alts for sale is going to go away.
This would be a good opportunity to do something about attributes though, at the same time as this change goes into effect, or in the months before, as part of a complete overhaul.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
439
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:16:31 -
[1134] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Please make ISK perchasing and RMT legal as well. That would round the circle. Purchasing ISK is already legal. Buy a PLEX, dump it into the market, and *POOF* you've got 1.2 bil.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Delegate
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:16:39 -
[1135] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Delegate wrote: This has a potential to scale well beyond the current SP transfer via character bazaar. As such it has a substantially stronger pay-to-win taste to it than the character bazaar.. Suppose a packet cost 2 plex worth of AUR to make. Ok, now suppose it's a little bit less... where's the tipping point?
It's a wholly different market. Character bazaar involves large transactions (ISK-wise). That puts a limit to how far it can scale. The entry to the skill market can potentially be much easier. That market may, therefore, have a lot more participants, and in turn a lot higher SP volume (even if volume per participant is not large). And that could be very bad for the game. For example, a new player may find that a lot of his peers buy a rapid entry to the game, while he lags behind. Is that a positive new player experience? When a new FOTM goes online GÇô say t3 frigates GÇô a lot of early adopter might be those that bought needed skills from alt-producers ( explained alts providing the skill supply in my previous post). Is that a positive game experience? We talking fluid, pervasive skill market here. That's a ruthless monetization of the game. I am fine with paying double the current subscription level but not necessary fine with building my character in that kind of environment. And I have a lot of SP to train before I can call myself a vet. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3520
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:18:14 -
[1136] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Delegate wrote: This has a potential to scale well beyond the current SP transfer via character bazaar. As such it has a substantially stronger pay-to-win taste to it than the character bazaar.. Suppose a packet cost 2 plex worth of AUR to make. Ok, now suppose it's a little bit less... where's the tipping point? It's a wholly different market. Character bazaar involves large transactions (ISK-wise). That puts a limit to how far it can scale. The entry to the skill market can potentially be much easier. That market may, therefore, have a lot more participants, and in turn a lot higher SP volume (even if volume per participant is not large). And that could be very bad for the game. For example, a new player may find that a lot of his peers buy a rapid entry to the game, while he lags behind. Is that a positive new player experience? When a new FOTM goes online GÇô say t3 frigates GÇô a lot of early adopter might be those that bought needed skills from alt-producers ( explained alts providing the skill supply in my previous post). Is that a positive game experience? We talking fluid, pervasive skill market here. That's a ruthless monetization of the game. I am fine with paying double the current subscription level but not necessary fine with building my character in that kind of environment. And I have a lot of SP to train before I can call myself a vet.
Decreasing returns means scaling is NOT easy.
Holy ****, can't believe I had to explain that.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Estevan Andrard
World Traders Guild Channel
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:18:58 -
[1137] - Quote
That may backfire so badly as it is now. I am a fan of cheating in clever ways, but damn, this Skill Pill thingy will transcend exploitations to a whole new level.
After the so called human traffic that is the Bazaar, where you sell not only skill, but a lot of people use the bazaar to a lot of other things, like amassing tons of specific kinds of alts, private sales for elegant corporation espionage, plain simple blobbing, alt hauling and what not. Now we may have yet one more venue of misleading the progression, time and identity bringing a whole new level of shame to the game.
By all means, introduce it right now, and the forums will burn.
If con is the opposite of pro, then is Congress the opposite of progress?
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9243
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 00:19:01 -
[1138] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Please make ISK perchasing and RMT legal as well. That would round the circle. CCP wrote: PLEX Store Buy PLEX, Use PLEX Services, Trade PLEX for ISK
You were saying?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2075
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 00:20:04 -
[1139] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Those characters represent people. Eve wondered why none of them was sold? Because they are not commodities. People bond with their characters, with time and efforts which they had put in them and what those characters present.
But that even was not the main point of my post, that was just a simple example of chars not being commodities. The point is that this will have no real benefit for new players and plenty of side effects and. And that it is potentially great threat to EVE.
And if that`s all you had to say on my post then I congratulate you for 50 pages of trolling. Since you obviously have no intention to work/discuss on actual improvement of the game I suppose you are just trolling or you are working in the opposite direction of my intentions (improving the game), for any reason there might be.
Since most of other comments who are supporting this idea are alts, I am glad that community has strong vote for NO. Though I hope even more people states that this idea is ********, so CCP does a "reality check" and see in how wrong direction they are going and that they have to change their mindset and vision to actually improve the game for the sake of the game and players. The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.
I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
170
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:20:15 -
[1140] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:I have 123 million SP currently. That means if I buy a 500,000 SP packet I get just 50,000 SP to allocate. It is generally a horrible deal unless I become grotesquely rich in game. It is not the high SP characters that anyone with sense is really worried about. It is the day old newbies and alts that can effectively level up instantly to 50mil SP+.
Blizzard allowed characters to instantly level in WOW and we can all see how that turned out.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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