We will be monitoring the feedback and looking at the stats over the next couple of months, comparing them to the stats we had pre-escalation, to see how things look once everyone has settled into the new changes.

I'm sorry, but the community deserves more than a 2-paragraph excerpt on a blog about multiple topics! These changes didn't even get their own blog. How?

I quick look over at the Sisi changes thread is also very concerning. There was a complete failure to address community concerns on there. No proper explanations or rebukes were given to those offering valuable feedback: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=95113

Most of the feedback was negative. A few pilots agreed that VG's needed a nerf, but the majority pointed out that decreasing pay AND doubling the time of completion is more than a 10% nerf. Patch notes stated this:



No mention of doubling the time of completion.. anywhere, actually. The dev blog does not state that the changes to waves and triggers increases completion times. Should we discuss the effect of having to kill all the Maras orbiting at 60km with a close DPS fleet?

On to Assaults. This one hurts my head a bit. Escalation features site states:



"will be reduced some" There is no data to support this. No evidence of internal testing. There is a hell of a lot of player data in the Sisi thread stating the exact opposite. Assaults were critical. You can nerf VGs to hell and back but if you made Assaults worthwhile, fleets would have shifted from elite VG groups to more public Assault fleets who attempt to keep a large group together by filling slots with pubbers. Instead, both got nerfed. Assaults are not worthwhile and the remaining VG fleets have become very, very, very exclusive. Does someone care to expand upon the iterations assaults went through in Sisi? Were they changed at all from April 04 to April 25th?

So here is what we want. All of your data and observations from testing. The reasoning behind the changes and why you think they were working during testing as intended. Comparisons of average isk/h incomes between incursions and lvl 4s and why you think the current system is acceptable. Put this together in a devblog devoted only to incursions and give us more than 2 paragraphs. Stay a few extra hours at work today to do this for your community. This change and its effects are your responsibility. We deserve a real discussion here.

Yeah, you can leave Incursions alone... But I suggest we start nerfing WH's now

You want WH money ? fine, setup a large POS with all the annoying logistics behind, and do the sites on your own.

You cant have the money and the risk free at the same time. You choose to do pve in high sec, which is fine, but dont envy people who have more balls than you do because they put very often expensive ships on the line each time they leave their POS or enter a wormhole.

Getting 100 mill / hour in high sec is wrong, getting that in wormhole is fine since you can ganked and podded any times.

Essential you are begging to get ganked. And to get more targets, as you are inviting people to contest your system(s).
Problem is, most of these incursion runners are either carebears and will not leave empire space ever, or they are null bears and just enjoyed the extra cash because their masters did not share the null sec isk with them.
Either way, most will decline your invitations. And even the few that don-¦t, are mostly just returning back to wh space.

And as you know all this, its easy for you to make such invitations, just imagine if actually really several thousands new players come to wh space and what this would mean for WH income.

maybe incursions were the balanced thing and everything else in eve is just unbalanced :O

Most of people in WH is isk farmers or carebears.
Most carebear in WH is one man (or 2) with large pos and 3-4 alts on dreadnought's.

Most of them pays game by PLEX.

Were I of an incursion-running mind, I'd invest the time and energy into figuring out the best way to capitalize on this sudden drop in interest in incursions. There's probably a lot of profit to be had for an innovative group.

The reaction seen here is exactly why The Skunkworks took such glee in griefing incursions. When CCP yanked the rug out from under us (over and over and over again) we adapted and made the best of it. We found new ways to commit acts of piracy in high sec. Here we are, barely a day into this, and the entire "community" is throwing its hands up and saying "well, that's that, incursions are dead!" I'm not normally one to look down on others, but frankly this defeatism is appalling.

For those of you who will get out there and figure out ways to restore your income level, I beg of you: don't share it with those who won't put in the effort themselves. Enjoy the contest-free incursions and reap great rewards for your effort and creativity.

You want isk go to low or null else settle for what you can get. Risk vs Reward.

Null-sec is not the risk-filled environment as perceived by some. And that's coming from a five-year null bitter vet. Yes, it takes great *effort* to carve out a chunk of null-sec territory, but the day-to-day risk of losing a ship is marginal.

Additionally, null-sec earnings on a per-character basis are no more than those living in high-sec considering some of the expenses associated with null.

5 years on and off in null sec and I never once lost a ratting ship to ganks. I've seen fellow incursion runners lose ships to the slightest mistake. Incursions give a false sense of security because the players have perfected their roles so well. We should not be punished for mastering a system, for equipping our fleets with lvl 5 logis and shiny BSes.

Incursions gave increased pay based on the amount of commitment the fleet was willing to put into it. That is a great system. The previous rewards gave you the confidence to fly a 3 billion isk ship despite those butt-clenching moments when a basi DCs during a heavy-dps wave.

Amazingly, Incursions made trust into a critical gameplay element. Nowhere else in eve would you trust a complete stranger with so much of your hard work. I cannot see why CCP felt this was something worth fiddling with.

We did dev blog about it, put it in patch notes and tell all the players the changes were on SISI, then we monitored the feedback and made changes again according to the feedback received from the Incursion community :) Bettik and I will continue to monitor the feedback and stats

Are you all f*****g gamblers ?

Money is made only in gambles ! Money is made only in gambles ! Is that the only thing that is in your head ?

RISK = REWARD !RISK = REWARD !RISK = REWARD !RISK = REWARD !RISK = REWARD !

GABMBLE ! GABMBLE ! GABMBLE ! GABMBLE ! GABMBLE ! GABMBLE ! GABMBLE ! GABMBLE !

No risk = No reward . Effort = Bullshit ! . Menagement = Bullshit ! Organization = Bullshit ! Trust = Bullshit !

Do you people even see how you look from a side ? Go play some Blink !

Amazingly, Incursions made trust into a critical gameplay element. Nowhere else in eve would you trust a complete stranger with so much of your hard work. I cannot see why CCP felt this was something worth fiddling with.

Please remove CONCORD from High sec Incursions systems. A way to formally ally with the Sansha and fight on their side would be nice as well.

Most of people in WH is isk farmers or carebears.
Most carebear in WH is one man (or 2) with large pos and 3-4 alts on dreadnought's.

Most of them pays game by PLEX.

well that is a response we can live with,
thing is we can allready tell you that vanguards is overnerfed when a fleet needs to field 5x3bill+3x1.5bill+2x0.5bill ships to make 1/3 of before then .....
Quit making changes on a whim, and document what the hell you do. changes that aint in patch notes is called bugs for most companies, but for ccp then it means a gm will have to say sorry its a new feature suck it up and have fun....

the NPCs are easier than those of a C6 WH

Beacause it was injecting too much isk in the economy and because the reward/risk ratio was out of whack compared to other activities.

However they dun goofd up.

We did dev blog about it, put it in patch notes and tell all the players the changes were on SISI, then we monitored the feedback and made changes again according to the feedback received from the Incursion community :) Bettik and I will continue to monitor the feedback and stats

[quote=Just Alter]


The real issue facing the eve economy, as Dr EyjoG said, is a lack of isk faucets.

just to correct the statement....should read lack of isk sinks.

That's actually an amazing idea. +1

Not be self serving but yeah I like the idea as well.


And for crying out loud can we get logi's some love and give them the same standings benefits the dps members get.