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Are we losing two subsystems per type?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:12:00 - [1] Right now we have three of the announced five subsystems on SISI at the moment with no evidence that we're going to see the remaining two subsystems before the expansion hits on March 10th (if it even makes that date). So, are we or are we not going to be receiving the last two subsystems per section? I'm thinking not. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:13:00 - [2] Posting in a Bellum Whine. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:16:00 - [3] well the rate they are going with T3 im expecting to see modules that will have a "fair market value" > 1 billion (each) at 4 and god only knows at 5. I hope im wrong. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Apocrypha features page At first we'll be introducing three variations for each of the five modules, with the rest to come Soon (TM). You're not going to see them before the expansion, I'm guessing. http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Don't ask me about the cows.
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:20:00 - [5] can't lose something you never had.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans Originally by: Apocrypha features page At first we'll be introducing three variations for each of the five modules, with the rest to come Soon (TM). You're not going to see them before the expansion, I'm guessing. http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Snap. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:33:00 - [7] " At first we'll be introducing three variations for each of the five modules, with the rest to come Soon (TM)." Damn it CCP...Now I'm ***ed... Can't wait to get off work so he can let off some steam by grieving carebears* Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:35:00 - [8] that's 12,000 less ships than promised.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:42:00 - [9] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/02/2009 01:43:05 Our interpretation of the Apocrypha Feature list ____ My Blog Is Awesome
p0pup7arge7 Shooting Gallery	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:52:00 - [10] Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/
Finnroth Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:59:00 - [11] Just lol. I might have flown them with more options to construct them, but as they're right now they're not really worth it imo. Considering that one of the main aspects of this expansion is also wormhole exploration and with it the gathering of T3 stuff, i really wonder how much attention these things get on the live server.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:13:00 - [12] next to none. Seriously the best industrialists in the game are openly saying they are not worth the effort needed to get the materials out of Wspace as it is rignt now. Right now theirs not that many ships that can get the base mats needed(unless they intend to fix hulks or come out with a Gas mining barge that has the needed tank, drone bay, and resists) none of thoes ships are optimised for gas harvesting the security needed to keep gas harvesting ships alive vs Sleeper rats currently is idiotic. oh and by the way the wormhole may not even let the ships you need for a proper op in the first place + the risk of you loseing your ship and all aquired loot because your hole imploded on you and opend half way accros the bloody map in hostile space is high. but somehow they expect to fix all of that in the next 2 weeks. . . I think we need to investigate whats in the beer they are drinking. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:21:00 - [13] There's 3 on the market but 5 do exist (on SiSi), it could be that the final 2 are very rare or hard to build or something. - Infectious -
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Rawr Cristina There's 3 on the market but 5 do exist (on SiSi), it could be that the final 2 are very rare or hard to build or something. read my post further up, I quoted that from one of the links above that post. Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
But Sects	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:25:00 - [15] The final two subsystems are... Colonel Tigh and his wife. Get it? Get it?!
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Rawr Cristina There's 3 on the market but 5 do exist (on SiSi), it could be that the final 2 are very rare or hard to build or something. they are not buildable on sisi. period. they currently are little more than placeholders for when they get to developing them. kind of like the Orca was for a long time. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:31:00 - [17] Originally by: But Sects The final two subsystems are... Colonel Tigh and his wife. Get it? Get it?! god why did I know this would happen. - Infectious -
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:33:00 - [18] Lets be realistic. 90% of the player base dont give a crap so long as it dosent interup what they are doing. of that probably half will poke there nose into Wspace to see whats up. odds are that half of them will like it enough to keep doing it. and frankly if they are haveing fun doing it then the devs got something right. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Rawr Cristina There's 3 on the market but 5 do exist (on SiSi), it could be that the final 2 are very rare or hard to build or something. or read the thread and realize that they told us that the last 2 for each of the subsystems are Soon^tm.
But Sects	Posted - 2009.02.25 02:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Steve Thomas Lets be realistic. 90% of the player base dont give a crap so long as it dosent interup what they are doing. of that probably half will poke there nose into Wspace to see whats up. odds are that half of them will like it enough to keep doing it. and frankly if they are haveing fun doing it then the devs got something right. Cool stuff bro, can I see the raw data from that survey you did?
Minnie Hitwoman	Posted - 2009.02.25 04:23:00 - [21] Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ haha... I just posted that question here. It sure looks like 2advanced but I couldn't find EVE in their portfolio.
Daelorn Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.25 04:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Minnie Hitwoman Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ haha... I just posted that question here. It sure looks like 2advanced but I couldn't find EVE in their portfolio. Might take them a while to update if they did indeed do it... but the website is awesome.
Fox Ogmo Caritas.	Posted - 2009.02.25 08:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Daelorn Originally by: Minnie Hitwoman Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ haha... I just posted that question here. It sure looks like 2advanced but I couldn't find EVE in their portfolio. Might take them a while to update if they did indeed do it... but the website is awesome. Maybe CCP should have them redo the whole UI :P
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.02.25 08:26:00 - [24] you know, first we need to balance the current ones (3) to make sure, everything is running smooth & well ... then they can add the missing last 2 subsystems :) and if i can speak for the future, if we balance the 5 cruiser sized subsystems, we can take them, play a little bit with the stats and paste & copy them for the next ones .... t3 battleship subsystems gggg
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:38:00 - [25] Confirming that this nerfs Gallante.

CCP t0rfifrans	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:46:00 - [26] In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM).

Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:47:00 - [27] Posting in another Bellum Eternus whine thread that is completely wrong. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:50:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). How dare you give us LESS stuff that works BETTER?! Don't you know that this community has always opted for more non-functional stuff to be put into the g... No wait, i must mix these people with someone else. waggles finger at people This is exactly what you usually ask! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:52:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). Yeah, I know game design and coding are two different divisions, but maybe if you hadn't had people coding some dueling arena instead... Apocrypha is really turning out to be a mixed bag, which is a pity, because when it was first announced I saw it as 100% good things :P __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:55:00 - [30] The problem once again is "being nice" and letting people know what's coming. Most of the people would be orgasmic about the features that are coming, but because it was speculated(a concept unknown to fans) that there was more, now suddenly Apocrypha is "bad"? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Adrien Bastalle Gallente Veto. Logistics	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:55:00 - [31] Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ 2advanced are heavily overrated tbh. --- Awaiting Ambulation....
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:56:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). Not to sound to pessimistic but we've heard that one before --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:59:00 - [33] Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ A 2advanced work? A gaming site with 100% of site functionality available on a single easy to find row and no longer than 2 clicks into the architecture? Does not compute!!! ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
shuckstar Gallente Hauling hogs	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:05:00 - [34] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). LOL how many times have i seen that word soon since i started playing of you guys .
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:07:00 - [35] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). Hmm, something is odd here. So you say that each of the subsystems(Propulsion, defensive, offensive, etc) will have 3 different types each? Because the math(5^3) does give 125. But that assume there's just 3 subsystems(Propulsion, defensive and offensive) with 5 different each. But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race. I must assume the latter is the case in terms of consistency, since it would then be the case that the last 2 subsystems then are fixed until 1.1. It would be the same amount of work(3 * 5 = 5 * 3) however it would leave out the last 2 tiers of subsystems rather than the last the last 2 sets of full tiers.
Finnroth Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Sheriff Jones The problem once again is "being nice" and letting people know what's coming. Most of the people would be orgasmic about the features that are coming, but because it was speculated(a concept unknown to fans) that there was more, now suddenly Apocrypha is "bad"? I wonder about that. You know, most of the new stuff (Tech 3 Cruiser, Wormholes, Wormhole Space, the industry side of it and the new AI) revolves around the ships beeing worth it to fly and to construct. The first obstacle was the SP loss, which i am not sure, how it will turn out, but i don't see it necessarily as a problem. It actually gets into a problem when those ships offer only limited capabilitys to modify. Yes there're theoreticaly 125 options per race, but a lot of those combos don't make much sense, and the other stuff is often just plain worse then tech 2 HACs/Recons. Part 4 and 5 might have had changed that, but that would have heavily depended on the additional stats, yet i would have been quite positive about it. See for yourself if you wish. That alltogether leads to the next problem - why go to wormhole space when the stuff you get is not really needed? Sure it's fun out of novelty at first, but then you realize your ally is under attack, you need money und useful ships to defend your own assets, and everything gets back to how it was. If things turn out this way, a mayor part of this expansion will get less attention than it deserves (i truly like the idea of this kind of exploration, but it's heavily bottlenecked in the usefulness of T3 Cruisers)... P.S. Will there be new ship explosion and missile effects, or are those postponed aswell with the rest of missing effects? Just curious.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:22:00 - [37] Well, EVE is "do what you want" isn't it? This brigs more "do what you want" options to the table. If T3 was end all ships to use, it would limit your freedom. Now, you can keep on flying and doing what you do, and those who DO want to go to Wormspace and get the amterials and sell them etc etc, can. I'm in the process of fitting a rokh with projectile weapons and armor tank to make it akin to the Galactica. Is it good? Probably not. Is it optimal? Hell no. Is it fun? Abso-flarning-lutely! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:26:00 - [38] Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/02/2009 12:27:03 Originally by: Shevar Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). Not to sound to pessimistic but we've heard that one before like we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming. also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference.
Antonia Frak Republic University	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:31:00 - [39] lol, first is the epic mission arcs (just one, and for newbies), now this. And CCP expects us to make a 10/10 of Apocrypha "the biggest ever" expansion? What will be the next over-hyped feature that is going to drop?
Finnroth Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:32:00 - [40] Edited by: Finnroth on 25/02/2009 12:33:37 @ Sheriff Jones The question is, "who will buy them". You know to give options you need to make them appealing, they don't need to be absolutly ubar, they just need to be different (thats the whole point of the design anyway) and being highly customizable. On another note, i seem to remember you are a PvE player, aren't ya? Thats not a problem at all, fit your ship like a Galactica all you want. It's just my believe that those T3 ships aren't neccesarily made for the regular PvE player. You have to kill NPCs that are supposed to be close to PCs to construct them, and cruisers aren't known to be the mighty PvE masters (and neither are there stats on sisi). All the other players (like in PvP) are limited in their options to use and fit a ships as the current meta game allows, and also by the relative effectivness in comparison with other ships. And thats where T3 Cruiser fail, sadly. It's not really the problem of knowing what's to come, it's the expectation that gets blasted to unpresedented hights just to be crushed closely after the feature cut. This expansion is big, it might be the biggest to day, but all that is making it this huge depends on the sucess of T3 cruisers - which makes it, as i said above, into a critically bottleneck.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Antonia Frak lol, first is the epic mission arcs (just one, and for newbies), now this. And CCP expects us to make a 10/10 of Apocrypha "the biggest ever" expansion? What will be the next over-hyped feature that is going to drop? to be honest, tht one mission is about... 100 missions totl with over 10-20 endings. you'll have to run it about 20 times before you see it all. and to top it off running an epic mission arc will likely take 4-5 hours. so that's like a month of content in one mission. not bad. hopefully they will release a new mission every month.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:40:00 - [42] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 25/02/2009 12:40:39 Originally by: LaVista Vista Hmm, something is odd here. So you say that each of the subsystems(Propulsion, defensive, offensive, etc) will have 3 different types each? Because the math(5^3) does give 125. But that assume there's just 3 subsystems(Propulsion, defensive and offensive) with 5 different each. But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race. I must assume the latter is the case in terms of consistency, since it would then be the case that the last 2 subsystems then are fixed until 1.1. It would be the same amount of work(3 * 5 = 5 * 3) however it would leave out the last 2 tiers of subsystems rather than the last the last 2 sets of full tiers. Vista you fool! This is a concern/complaint thread you should never point out mistakes that make CCP (target of complaint) look better when corrected. But yea, seems to me that he got the math backwards as well. Five slots with three options each would be 3ê5 making it 243 per race at launch. Problem that arises with delaying the last two will be the whine-storm when they are released as they will almost certainly require the first three to be tweaked in order to maintain balance .. no-one likes their ships to be 'nerfed'.
Exlegion Caldari New Light	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:43:00 - [43] Originally by: LaVista Vista But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race. ^^ This is what I thought. But the dev comment threw me off as well (5^3). One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:44:00 - [44] I am still not convinced. The Slot layout for some of the ships are only good for comedy fittings.
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:45:00 - [45] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Shevar Not to sound to pessimistic but we've heard that one before like we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming. also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference. Oops! Ouch. Stopping kicking the dev's against their legs. They're only human you know? Yes, yes, yes, I know the promises made where bigger then their eyes, but what do you want, everything in Apochribba and falling apart the moment a drone sneezes or almost everything working more or less how it should (am a bit careful here seeing CCP's track record). What they now have is new tools and stuff in that when it goes live can be tested the hard way and will make it easier for them to add the missing pieces in later on. And yes, you are right I remember the promise of rewards etc. for FW being made. Just remember they work now different then before. It might be in a sprint right now.... Originally by: AkRoYeR ...the beauty of EvE. You have to live on the edge all the time. If you don't stay frosty, you will die! Best game ever!
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Sheriff Jones The problem once again is "being nice" and letting people know what's coming. Most of the people would be orgasmic about the features that are coming, but because it was speculated(a concept unknown to fans) that there was more, now suddenly Apocrypha is "bad"? An official announcement at fanfest is hardly speculation though. It's pretty moot anyway since it'll probably take longer for T3 components to make their way to the marketplace than it will for CCP to put out the remaining eight. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:55:00 - [47] Originally by: MotherMoon also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference. Last i heard it was 4000, not 13.000. But, these numbers are irrelevant. The fact is, without any info, people would rabble for the lack of info.(as they did) With info, that IS speculations when concerning features that are not done yet(there are unseen problems and things don't always go smooth), people rable if they are not 100% correct. So, either CCP stop giving pre-info at ALL, or people understand that pre-info is an estimate. If they had said "New player mission arc, 500 new ships to start with, Wormspace etc", what ARE coming, people would be happy. They simply aren't happy 'cause reality hit. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:08:00 - [48] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/02/2009 13:10:34 Unless i'm reading this wrong, we're only getting 1 epic mission arc for release... Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 24/02/2009 18:08:08 Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 24/02/2009 16:59:20 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 24/02/2009 16:38:28 So, are you saying EPIC missions are going to be around to introduce newbies into Eve and of low difficulty? Or are you just talking about this specific mission? This particular Epic Arc, titled "Blood Stained Stars," is designed with an eye towards newer players, yes. Our content development schedule was aggressive to say the least. It was decided one large arc was a better test ground and show piece as are tools came online than several smaller arcs. A new player focused arc made the most sense. However, "Blood-Stained Stars" is but the first of many Epic Arcs to come. Epic Arcs are a long term feature set for us. It is starting humbly enough, but it will grow. We plan to design Epic Arcs across as many difficulties, factions, play styles, and whatever else we can think of all over EVE. There will be much more. ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:16:00 - [49] Even if there are only 3 or 4 "optimal" and 5-6 more "viable-but-niche" combos for each race, that more than doubles the number of >T1 cruisers. Yeah more lego would be great, but I think we'll have enough to keep us entertained for a while tbh.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:20:00 - [50] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: MotherMoon also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference. Last i heard it was 4000, not 13.000. But, these numbers are irrelevant. It was 12,500 (5^5 * 4) and is now down to 972 (3^5 * 4). So both of you are wrong. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Antonia Frak Republic University	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:35:00 - [51] Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 13:41:27 The fact is that CCP took the way of over hyping features and we become their fans and over inflated expansion rates around the internet. EvE is the best mmo, and CCP the best mmo developer, but I think they are letting the marketing guys rule the house. -Trinity hyped a graphical update, and it was just half of it. Now they are marketing Apocrypha with the other half, hilarious. -Quantum Rise hyped an industrial update and it was just a ship (and alchemy if you put science into industry). -Apocrypha hyped the T3 expansion, and it is going to be half of it. Also hyped the epic arc missions and it's going to be just 1! -Also Apocrypha box hypes some kind of "VIP pass" that is the already existing buddy pass! also the guide is the evelopedia! You can do honest hype, but this is not honest. I'm not a cult follower of CCP. Trolls, fans or neutrals aren't either, we are just customers, there is no way we should "justify" this, it's ridiculous.
Muscaat Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Adrien Bastalle Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ 2advanced are heavily overrated tbh. Web page content only accessible through Flash = fail IMO.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: MotherMoon also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference. Last i heard it was 4000, not 13.000. But, these numbers are irrelevant. It was 12,500 (5^5 * 4) and is now down to 972 (3^5 * 4). So both of you are wrong. lol the dev was wrong then :P anyways, trust me jones I know what your saying. and I honestly hve no issues with it NORMALLY. but this feels like the only point of the ship is being removed. it's not much different than a tech 2 cruiser now. I know that only 2 less systems seems like a small number but as you can see, it's a HUGE difference. nd I'm ok with them taking longer.... I just want some sort of promise ti will happen. anyways, this is one case where I honestly think the devs need to think it through. But yeah it's all good I know I would whine if they never gave out that other number.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:13:00 - [54] Hmm, let me ask it this way; If you had the choice, would you rather the expansion came with all the bells and whistles, or on time? Would you be willing to give another month for the expansion to come? IF you had to choose, would you rather have less content which is "perfected", or more content that is half-donkeyd together? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Genya Arikaido	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:15:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Stuff Sounds like Public Affairs waffle to mean that you're trimming features to meet the deadline. Further simplification: "Yes, you get 2 less subsystems because we're rushing Apocrypha to release." Help me move to Iceland!
Khornne Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:15:00 - [56] Originally by: Adrien Bastalle Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ 2advanced are heavily overrated tbh. You're better, we know it. -- si vis pacem, para bellum If you wish for peace, prepare for war.
Antonia Frak Republic University	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:29:00 - [57] Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 14:29:34 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Hmm, let me ask it this way; If you had the choice, would you rather the expansion came with all the bells and whistles, or on time? Would you be willing to give another month for the expansion to come? IF you had to choose, would you rather have less content which is "perfected", or more content that is half-donkeyd together? It's not a matter of chosing, it's a matter of how are you selling the product. The real question is why over-hyping. If you hype honestly, users get expected content at the expected time. If you over-hype, users get less than expected content at the expected (or not) time. That is case in the last year of two in CCP and it's the usual trend in mmon industry (superior marketing for inferior products).
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Misanth on 25/02/2009 14:30:51 Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 13:41:27 The fact is that CCP took the way of over hyping features and we become their fans and over inflated expansion rates around the internet. EvE is the best mmo, and CCP the best mmo developer, but I think they are letting the marketing guys rule the house. -Trinity hyped a graphical update, and it was just half of it. Now they are marketing Apocrypha with the other half, hilarious. -Quantum Rise hyped an industrial update and it was just a ship (and alchemy if you put science into industry). -Apocrypha hyped the T3 expansion, and it is going to be half of it. Also hyped the epic arc missions and it's going to be just 1! -Also Apocrypha box hypes some kind of "VIP pass" that is the already existing buddy pass! also the guide is the evelopedia! You can do honest hype, but this is not honest. I'm not a cult follower of CCP. Trolls, fans or neutrals aren't either, we are just customers, there is no way we should "justify" this, it's ridiculous. Pretty nice summary. This is definately the best MMO out there, and the devs got alot of respect for the stuff they are delivering, it's impressive (innovative and pretty good balancing overall compared to other games). But their marketing department guys are just off the rocks over and over and over and over.. I kinda get sick at repeating this, but the achilles heel for CCP for the past, I dunno, 3+ years the very least? is just quite possibly.. just the 2nd worst to the SW:G team, in the whole gaming industry, forever. I just wish the top dogs at CCP would give their employees some respect. If they started communicate better with their customers, the devs and staff wouldn't look like idiots because they have fail guys at the top, and/or marketing. Noone needs to get fired either, they do a good job, they just need to learn to communicate. Stop overhype. Stop lie and change things. Stop developing things in secret (like the ranked duelling arena, wtf CCP?) and trying to sell that concept to investors.. betraying their playerbase and game concept as a whole. Enough dirt throwing at CCP from me for now, but I guess the chestbeating overbelif that went through the Icelandic economy, also goes through their companies. Something smells fishy. Pun intended.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:30:00 - [59] Pity. I was hoping that last 2 subsystem offer something more suitable for missionrunning than first three. Unless they changed in the past few days tech 3 cruisers will be able to offer performance of cerberus or drake in 1 bill hull and SP loss when going pop.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:35:00 - [60] Originally by: MotherMoon [like we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming. Probably cause they realized that it was ****ed to need to bribe people to PvP. Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:36:00 - [61] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 25/02/2009 14:36:46 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Hmm, let me ask it this way; If you had the choice, would you rather the expansion came with all the bells and whistles, or on time? Would you be willing to give another month for the expansion to come? IF you had to choose, would you rather have less content which is "perfected", or more content that is half-donkeyd together? Given that it's the summer expansion that's coming in MARCH, I'd much, much, much rather have them finish what they're working on before putting it out instead of cutting features for EVE's "biggext expansion yet." Hell if it weren't for the fact that this is EVE's retail launch I wouldn't even care if it all gets put out at the same time. I dunno, a lot of the stuff in Apocrypha is genuinely good and exciting. But it feels like a lot of the features and stuff is rushed or getting cut to make room for this big march 10th release, and I think it shows. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:44:00 - [62] Originally by: Terianna Eri Given that it's the summer expansion that's coming in MARCH, I'd much, much, much rather have them finish what they're working on before putting it out instead of cutting features for EVE's "biggext expansion yet." Hell if it weren't for the fact that this is EVE's retail launch I wouldn't even care if it all gets put out at the same time. I dunno, a lot of the stuff in Apocrypha is genuinely good and exciting. But it feels like a lot of the features and stuff is rushed or getting cut to make room for this big march 10th release, and I think it shows. That stuff is perfectly fine with me. Give new/older players some time to settle in with the new, and have the rest release a bit later, fine. But then set a timeline, not a soon(tm), and don't freaking announce things half a year earlier saying "this will come". The major issue with CCP is not that they fail to deliver, they always do. It's that they fail to deliver what they promise.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:45:00 - [63] Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 25/02/2009 14:45:25 Checks watch That's funny. I swear that this expansion is 3 months early. Oh wait, they're also releasing WiS and the unknooooooown expaaaaaansssiooooon this year. I can forgive CCP for scaling down one aspect of the content. ________________________________________________
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:49:00 - [64] Very disappointing. No one forced CCP to do a summer expansion in spring or to set expectations that high ("combinations in the literal thousands blablabla"). Why not start with some understatement and then suprise people? Modesty i guess can be useful for designers too... -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:12:00 - [65] Originally by: Terianna Eri Yeah, I know game design and coding are two different divisions, but maybe if you hadn't had people coding some dueling arena instead... Wait... what? An arena for duels? Please say this is a cruel and obnoxious joke. Pleeeaaase.... -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
Mal'ol Soddo	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:23:00 - [66] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Terianna Eri Yeah, I know game design and coding are two different divisions, but maybe if you hadn't had people coding some dueling arena instead... Wait... what? An arena for duels? Please say this is a cruel and obnoxious joke. Pleeeaaase.... On sisi there a shortcut, and possibly a station button to enter the "combat simulator". Apparently it was later cut due to technical constraints.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Mal'ol Soddo Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Terianna Eri Yeah, I know game design and coding are two different divisions, but maybe if you hadn't had people coding some dueling arena instead... Wait... what? An arena for duels? Please say this is a cruel and obnoxious joke. Pleeeaaase.... On sisi there a shortcut, and possibly a station button to enter the "combat simulator". Apparently it was later cut due to technical constraints. You guys need to check this. Apparantly CCP was working on a 1v1 duel arena that'd be ranked.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:43:00 - [68] reads link vomits I am not even going there... But shame on you guys at CCP if that is how it is. -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Misanth Apparantly CCP was working on a 1v1 duel arena that'd be ranked. That actually doesn't say exactly what the final design iteration and constraints of the "Arena" would be. But anyone it isn't happening. Are we losing two subsystems? Well, are we gaining T3 hulls and 3 subsystems? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:51:00 - [70] Another failed expansion is forming... Wtf.. since after trinity CCP has raising the bar of fail quite a lot. Empyrean crap, NErfign rise and now , ApoCRAPta
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:56:00 - [71] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined. We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM). you forgot to ass that its pre nerfed.. like the blackops.. :\| www.garia.net
Wazamaan	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:01:00 - [72] Originally by: Polinus Another failed expansion is forming... Wtf.. since after trinity CCP has raising the bar of fail quite a lot. Empyrean crap, NErfign rise and now , ApoCRAPta You can always play WoW / other generic MMORPG Polinus. Then when you realise that only CCP read their forums, and try their best to include unique additions to the game that mix things up a bit, and keep us thinking, you can come crawling back to Eve Online. If you don't like change, play WoW, it's been the same since it's first day. I'd love to see your face when you get banned from the WoW forums for whining about how limited WoW is.

CCP t0rfifrans	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:05:00 - [73] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 555 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500. Hmm, something is odd here. So you say that each of the subsystems(Propulsion, defensive, offensive, etc) will have 3 different types each? Because the math(5^3) does give 125. But that assume there's just 3 subsystems(Propulsion, defensive and offensive) with 5 different each. But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race. I must assume the latter is the case in terms of consistency, since it would then be the case that the last 2 subsystems then are fixed until 1.1. It would be the same amount of work(3 * 5 = 5 * 3) however it would leave out the last 2 tiers of subsystems rather than the last the last 2 sets of full tiers. Military experts are calling this an epic maths fail on my behalf. You are right. However, the fourth variation has been mostl designed and almost made it into M10, so getting it in is a matter of 3-9 weeks after M10. The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are.

Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:25:00 - [74] Originally by: Wazamaan Originally by: Polinus Another failed expansion is forming... Wtf.. since after trinity CCP has raising the bar of fail quite a lot. Empyrean crap, NErfign rise and now , ApoCRAPta You can always play WoW / other generic MMORPG Polinus. Then when you realise that only CCP read their forums, and try their best to include unique additions to the game that mix things up a bit, and keep us thinking, you can come crawling back to Eve Online. If you don't like change, play WoW, it's been the same since it's first day. I'd love to see your face when you get banned from the WoW forums for whining about how limited WoW is. the fact remains that CCP should not promise stuff when they clearly had no clue if they could do it in time! That way they would have a small set of stuff for expansion, but COMPLETE and workign stuff. I very much doubt (based on current sisi status and improvments on last few weeks) that march 10 we will have something usable.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:25:00 - [75] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/02/2009 16:31:14 Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Isn't this backwards? You have the potential to make a feature really awesome, widely used, and change the face of New Eden altogether and then surely build on that success (well, finish) it at a later date. The fact it seems that your not confident in the features interest is deeply worrying. ____ My Blog Is Awesome
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/02/2009 16:31:14 Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Isn't this backwards? You have the potential to make a feature really awesome, widely used, and change the face of New Eden altogether and then surely build on that success (well, finish) it at a later date. The fact it seems that your not confident in the features interest is deeply worrying. The can have all the confidence they want in it, but the basic fact is they aren't the majority of players and can not in fact read minds. If you seem to think that the success or failure depends on one extra subsystem, then I don't really know what to tell you. But it makes more sense to see if a feature becomes super popular before deciding how far up the importance chain it is. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Finnroth Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:42:00 - [77] Edited by: Finnroth on 25/02/2009 16:42:55 A fourth variety sounds promising in this time frame, could make T3 actually interesting. Originally by: An Anarchyyt If you seem to think that the success or failure depends on one extra subsystem, then I don't really know what to tell you. But it makes more sense to see if a feature becomes super popular before deciding how far up the importance chain it is. You have to consider, that there're vastly more possibilitys for fittings with each group of modules added on top of that. Adding "just another couple" equates to seriously a lot more ships, and not just on paper but in acutal options to put them together (in a useful manner). This stuff is all about choices and customizability, so i have to agree wirth Pattern Clarc. If you cut it down, you make it less appealing wich leads to less use ig which projects a feel of non interest in this feature. And this is basically wrong - one just has to read the forums to see they were pretty much anticipated.
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:52:00 - [78] Originally by: Polinus the fact remains that CCP should not promise stuff when they clearly had no clue if they could do it in time! That way they would have a small set of stuff for expansion, but COMPLETE and workign stuff. I very much doubt (based on current sisi status and improvments on last few weeks) that march 10 we will have something usable. CCP has always told us that anything and everything can change before the release. I think you would know by now that CCP talks a lot about features they want to tinker with BEFORE they decide to put it in the game for good. At fan fest, they told us that they wanted to bring us 5 subsystems with 5 different parts each. As the deadline looms, they are probably realizing that they must prioritize certain features over others. They already had 3 parts done, so they probably decided that they would wait and see how T3 plays out before finishing the other 2.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:20:00 - [79] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 25/02/2009 17:22:20 Originally by: Finnroth Edited by: Finnroth on 25/02/2009 16:42:55 A fourth variety sounds promising in this time frame, could make T3 actually interesting. Originally by: An Anarchyyt If you seem to think that the success or failure depends on one extra subsystem, then I don't really know what to tell you. But it makes more sense to see if a feature becomes super popular before deciding how far up the importance chain it is. You have to consider, that there're vastly more possibilitys for fittings with each group of modules added on top of that. Adding "just another couple" equates to seriously a lot more ships, and not just on paper but in acutal options to put them together (in a useful manner). This stuff is all about choices and customizability, so i have to agree wirth Pattern Clarc. If you cut it down, you make it less appealing wich leads to less use ig which projects a feel of non interest in this feature. And this is basically wrong - one just has to read the forums to see they were pretty much anticipated. However, in its current iteration, there are still a significant amount of numbers. Yes, to make up some numbers 50,000 is more than 5,000. But 5,000 is still a lot. Frankly, I can see a lot more possibilities in seeing how these play out and possibly adding different types of bonuses to the ships. Ones that are possibly more unique, so we don't just end up with 5 subsystems of 1bil ISK Hac/Recons. I'd like to perhaps see subsystem 4 or 5 be something like "99% percent reduction in CPU/PG for ______ (Focused Warp Disruption, etc etc)." Maybe then with some sort of drawback. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:45:00 - [80] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Misanth Apparantly CCP was working on a 1v1 duel arena that'd be ranked. That actually doesn't say exactly what the final design iteration and constraints of the "Arena" would be. But anyone it isn't happening. Are we losing two subsystems? Well, are we gaining T3 hulls and 3 subsystems? Quoting that post exactly; "These in fact were "virtual" combat arenas where you could engage in one-on-one consensual ranked PVP combat. The code had to be shelved as the server code doesn't allow for anything virtual within EVE. For instance, every ship that gets destroyed, is destroyed in "reality"." a) "one-on-one" = 1v1 b) "combat arenas", "consensual", "ranked" = there's the design and constraints for you c) you see why it was dropped.. because EVE doesn't allow anything virtual. d) also, speaking of dropped, it was "shelved".. which doesn't mean they killed the whole idea. They had FW shelved for years for example, and the removing of local is an idea that's been shelved, removal of nano was shelved, etc. Now, case c) should get you really worried, because.. well, let's say 100% of EVE wanted a 1v1 ranked arena in game. Fine. But having a virtual environment is going against the whole backbone of EVE. Sandbox. Risk vs reward. The economy, industry, and hell even the PvP would take a hit from this. Essentially the idea of anything virtual in EVE is wrong. The very fact that they had been working on this should be very disturbing for everyone that plays this game. The very fact that they didn't even say it was stopped because of the absurdity, but rather a technical reason, is disturbing. Either way, as for t3 etc.. I already spoke my mind above. It's all fine and dandy with me if they put in less of what's promised and chestbeated about. It's the way they present it that is the major issue. Not the content itself.
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Malcanis Even if there are only 3 or 4 "optimal" and 5-6 more "viable-but-niche" combos for each race, that more than doubles the number of >T1 cruisers. Yeah more lego would be great, but I think we'll have enough to keep us entertained for a while tbh. This. Although what we're getting is a little less than originally seen, we're still getting a solid expansion overall. So what? There isn't as many combo's as before? there is still plenty, and the .1/.2 patches etc are usually pretty speedy in pursuit, or so I believe. Although the lack of completed subsystems is a bit sadface. We have got a lot to **** about with.
Antonia Frak Republic University	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:58:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Nonono, it's the expansion that is going to be rushed. Apocrypha is being rushed and this is a reality check. What we are trying to tell you is that the last 1-2 years of expansions where full of hype, expectations and reality crashes, all because marketing and trying to get many more players. It's frustrating to discover the "what" and the "why" of all this. You are cheating people, the current customers, and inducing us to write nice and warm reviews, like if we were "fans" or followers, and look, we are customers. What you need is to tone down the hype and level it with reality and expectations as well.
Aya Sin	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:01:00 - [83] Success or failure of Apocrypha? ... If anything, it depends on the new player experience and that first epic arc new players will be sent on as well as shiny graphics and marketing. Nothing else will have anything close to this impact on how well the box sells. T3 would be about the last thing to have any impact on sales at all (except for contributing to the shiny graphics). For that matter, I don't quite understand the fuzz about numbers here. Quality > quantity. I think starting out small and expanding on that is the best thing they can do. Helps them to make the deadline and reduces initial balancing issues.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:18:00 - [84] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/02/2009 18:19:54 So in reality we have hundreds of new ships coming in, and yet we still complain. Gotta love the EVE community. I would suggest you listen to that video from fanfest again, very carefully. While he said we would like to have 5 different subsystems in place for release, the actual number to make it in at release was still up in the air. Eventually we will have 5, it just may take awhile to flesh the concept out, and that is fine as long as the new subsystems are well conceived. Delays, changes, and unexpected issues are the nature of the beast when it comes to software. Frustrating perhaps, but a fact. From the most involved operating system right down to the simplest of applets. Get a little perspective here. No one is thrilled when these things happen, but lets not get carried away and start making accusations implying lies or dishonest of any type on CCP's part. Its simply not true. We are going to have one hell of an expansion to work our way through as it stands, and frankly by the time production of T3 is up and running in game to the point where the majority of the EVE population will have a chance to fly them the 4th subsystem should be ready to be released (soon to be followed by the 5th.) Just relax and show a bit of courtesy. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:41:00 - [85] Originally by: Ranger 1 Just relax and show a bit of courtesy. Wow. Just wow. You really didn't bother to read mine and some other posts that are extremely positive to CCP and this game as a whole. We're just negative to aspects of it, which is constructive critisism, filled with courtesy it inself. Either way, what the poster above you typed is damn true tho. The boxes and new player experience will have alot more impact on EVE then anything else. Or at least should. If we purely look at content, and compare with other MMO's, we see that most of them have very little "content" added. Hell, many new Xbox games (take one big seller like Gears of War) just "last" for 8-10 hours. MMO expansions, even if they are small, have alot bigger impact. QR hardly added anything, but still have a major impact on PvP. T3/Wormhole is expected to have very little impact on industrialism/PvP, but it adds another flavour. In the light of that, Apo-cry is actually adding something of value that might last for a bit (the mission arc and wormholes will, even if a small part, affect the game in a longer run - it's just like adding levels/instances to fantasy mmo's, or new maps to a fps). Again, I keep repeating myself, but the main issue is how CCP is addressing their customers. It goes back a long time. t20? CSM? Ghost training? Nano-talk back/forth? Promises with each expansion that falls short time and again? And recently this arena project that goes against the very soul and essence of the sandbox EVE. CCP are dreamers. That probably is part of why they are innovative and makes this game great, but it also makes them really good liars and horrible at customer relations. They could probably 'fix' all these problems by removing the CSM altogether, take that cost and invest it in a single PR-guy and whoa, the achilles heel of this game could be cured. Common courtesy would be to listen to people that are constructive and give CCP credit for all the good stuff that is, and try add some constructive feedback to solve the less good. It doesn't make them whiners, rude, etc or whatever.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:05:00 - [86] If I was directing this specifically at your posts, I would have quoted you nubbins. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:24:00 - [87] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. I agree with you that it is better to release something polished than not. However, that is not the case. I would ask you guys to lower the expectations and hence the HYPE, I am sure that had we heard from you that there would be three lego pieces from the get-go, there would be no disappointment. Maybe you could've surprised us with more features had you managed to finish the fourth (and fifth)? You know the mentality, if you tell your kid he'll get a PS3 and you give him a crappy XBOX360, he will be disappointed. If you however tell him from the getgo that he'll receive a silly Microsoft-console he will have more time to cope with the fail of it, and thus have more time to adapt. You were bragging about 5^54 types, we were anticipating them, they were part of the design you let slip out for the forumites to speculate about. Until this very moment there has been no indication that there would be any less than 5^54, so please don't give us the BS about waiting to see if they reach any kind of popularity before getting more out the door. I'm asking myself now: What else will be cut? "Oh, there will be only 200 systems for the wormholes, we wanted less systems because we wanted them to be more polished... oh, and there will be local in wormholes, it was too much of a hassle to set it to delayed mode... oh also, we boosted the falcon and nerfed minmatar some more, we found that it put less of a load on the server if people simply stopped using minmatar" :D
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:28:00 - [88] I'd rather have CCP tell us what they're working on, even if they promise too much and need to cut back a little, than tell us little or nothing at all. The trolls on this forum drive me wild.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:29:00 - [89] I will point out he said the timing on "when" the 5th subsystem will be released would depend on level of interest after release... not "if". Nothing has been cut. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:30:00 - [90] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Military experts are calling this an epic maths fail on my behalf. You are right. However, the fourth variation has been mostl designed and almost made it into M10, so getting it in is a matter of 3-9 weeks after M10. * The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Translation Wether or not we actualy waste resorces on T3 depends on how badly T3 bombs or how well it succeeds We should have stuck to the usual release dates and not pushed it to may 10 just to get a whoopeee! at fan fest. ***hey at least I did not use devspeak terms like Epic or Revolutionary well at least now you guys know better. . . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:41:00 - [91] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. I would have preferred if it would have been pushed back a month or two (which is kinda hard because of your deal with Atari). I'm sorry but when I read what was available on the test server when it was first brought up my first thought was they are so never gonna make it before the launch date, when the t3 devblog was published it should have been more then clear that it wouldn't be 5 modules but 3 or if lucky 4. And you really should admit that CCP on a whole has a rather bad reputation on bringing lost features due to deadline rushes on to the next expansion or in small in between patches, just to name 2 recently a totally failed industry expansion (and none of the industry related improvements that didn't make it such as storefronts haven't been delivered in acrophobia either) and black ops (prenerfed and totally clear they should be boosted yet no changes in even jump range or fuel reqs this time, both "quick fixes" that should slightly unnerf them until you manage to create that fuel bay)... --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:45:00 - [92] It's pretty funny to watch the amount of whinging on these forums at times. Fact of the matter is, if CCP had decided to release all 5 and they were buggy and/or unbalanced, people would have complained. Conversely, if CCP had decided to cut back and only release three to focus on quality, which they have, then push the rest out in mini .xx patches for Apocrypha, then people would have complained, which they are. The Dev team have said repeatedly that Tech III will be introduced as part of the Apocrypha expansion. The expansion isn't ONE PATCH, it's a number of patches including an initial major content patch followed by further additions and fixes to make sure it runs smoothly. I feel sorry for these guys sometimes having to deal with the amount of players who grace these forums with the attitudes of spoiled kids who want it all and want it all right now. Honestly, I'd love to see a full return to the CCP responses around Castor and Exodus. Half these idiots with NO CLUE about game design whining on the forums wouldn't know what hit them. CCP Whisper is my god damn forum warrior hero over the last few weeks for his frankly awesome attitude toward the idiots who come here to do nothing more than cry and whine like spoiled kids. Legend. I know who I'll be buying a beer first at FF09 \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:48:00 - [93] Originally by: Akor Flandres I'd rather have CCP tell us what they're working on, even if they promise too much and need to cut back a little, than tell us little or nothing at all. The trolls on this forum drive me wild. Indeed but they do need to realize some things are a bit, errr, wtf? Sorry but saying 2 weeks ago that there will be 5 modules for each and now saying that it will take ~4 to 9 weeks after the release to maybe introduce the 4th module doesn't really add up. Perhaps CCP should let the devs working on a project actually write the blog and publish it instead of writing blog sending through 10 marketing people to add some funny meme's and being slightly less edgy if "needed" taking ~2 weeks and then publish it. But anyways if the devs would be as silent as in for example WoW (where there is almost total silence about the direction of the game in order to not upset any of the current subscribers) I would have quitted long ago and no resubbed so often . --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:51:00 - [94] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans SOON(TM). Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've heard it all before. Black Ops un-nerfing? Soon. EVE COSMOS. Soon. Upgraded planets. Soon. Sovereignty revamp. Soon. Ambu.. Oh you get the idea. I could go on but let's face it - why bother? A massive disappointment and a definitive kick in the teeth to the much vaunted SCRUM (Soon) method. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:54:00 - [95] Originally by: Cailais why bother? Don't let the door hit you on the way out then. Can I have your stuff?
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:07:00 - [96] Originally by: Steve Thomas Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Military experts are calling this an epic maths fail on my behalf. You are right. However, the fourth variation has been mostl designed and almost made it into M10, so getting it in is a matter of 3-9 weeks after M10. * The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Translation Wether or not we actualy waste resorces on T3 depends on how badly T3 bombs or how well it succeeds We should have stuck to the usual release dates and not pushed it to may 10 just to get a whoopeee! at fan fest. ****hey at least I did not use devspeak terms like Epic or Revolutionary well at least now you guys know better. And another Saa-WING and a miss. The ability to read is apparently not a prerequisite to post. ===== Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:18:00 - [97] Originally by: Akor Flandres Originally by: Cailais why bother? Don't let the door hit you on the way out then. Can I have your stuff? I'm not leaving, so no you cant. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:22:00 - [98] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel A 2advanced work? A gaming site with 100% of site functionality available on a single easy to find row and no longer than 2 clicks into the architecture? Does not compute!!! Not to mention its not done entirely in flash. But hey, navigating 5 menus to get to where you wanna go is great web design right? /me hugs server development, the front end? You can keep it.
Vaedon Roid Ripper Industries	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:35:00 - [99] Not on topic, and I apologize, but I wanted to comment on this. Originally by: Misanth But having a virtual environment is going against the whole backbone of EVE. I disagree with pretty much all of your points here. Quote: Sandbox. Sandbox play means I can do what I want. If I want to have a career as a combat simulator "gladiator", then I get to. If I want to be a bookie taking bets on combat sim matches, then I can do that too. If I want to play as a manager for a team of gladiators, then I could do that instead. See what I did there? Quote: Risk vs reward. No, there's no (traditional) risk involved. Oddly enough, there are no (traditional) rewards involved either. No problems here then. Quote: The economy, Charge for it. I see this as going to the arcade to play games. In this instance, it costs me a million ISK (or whatever) instead of a quarter per play. Simulators could be player built and run. It could cost the owner a monthly fee to run the com/sim, so they would have to charge people a fee to use it. Add in gambling and it could easily become part of the economy. Quote: industry, Doesn't do anything for industry, at least not the way it was described. I'll give you that one. However, see my "player built" comment above. Quote: and hell even the PvP would take a hit from this. Possibly. You will get people only interested in instant 1v1 PvP gravitating towards this and abandoning "real world" PvP. You will also get carebears using this to satisfy their curiosity about PvP. Some will decide it's fun, and become PvPers (either virtual or real). Some may learn a trick or two in their matches and might actually put up a more decent fight when someone decides it'd be fun to gank them. In my opinion, most of the people taking part in this will be people who aren't happy/interested with Eve's current PvP. Those who are happy won't bother with it too much. Quote: Essentially the idea of anything virtual in EVE is wrong. SecWars will be virtual. Should it be dropped? Quote: The very fact that they had been working on this should be very disturbing for everyone that plays this game. Based on plans and dreams of entirely different gameplay like FPS planetary warfare, walking in stations, atmospheric combat and the like, I find it disturbing so many players are so vehemently opposed to something like this. I firmly believe that in the future Eve gameplay, as it is now, will only be one aspect of Eve Online. People will be able to play Eve in ways we haven't even thought of yet, and may never set foot in a pod/ship or work the markets at all. Not knocking you in particular, Misanth (oddly enough, I tend to think along the same lines as your posts ), but this outrage against something that doesn't fall into Eve's traditional gameplay seems almost elitist to me. "This is our game. Play it our way or GTFO." What would happen if (when?) CCP unveils first-person planetary combat, with no direct connections to space combat/industry? Will everyone shout it down, claiming it goes against the very backbone of Eve? That people will move to that kind of PvP and empty out space of pilots? Ok, rant over. Again, apologies for not being on topic. As to that, I am quite disappointed we aren't getting all 5 variations on release day. However, provided we get them before the December expansion, I'll forgive CCP. Vaedon Jack-of-all-trades...Master-of-none
Amy Wang	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:27:00 - [100] Good call really, holding 2 subsystems pet category back. Better release somehow balanced content then a complete mess and 125 combinations are obviously easier to balance then 12k. Oh and if you could slip in the long overdue Black Ops fix with the next updates as well that would also be really dandy
Sirani Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:37:00 - [101] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html Web design by 2advaced??? http://2advanced.com/ A 2advanced work? A gaming site with 100% of site functionality available on a single easy to find row and no longer than 2 clicks into the architecture? Does not compute!!! [rhetorical demeaning question]who the hell are 2advanced? never heard of them.[/rhetorical demeaning question]
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:11:00 - [102] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: MotherMoon [like we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming. Probably cause they realized that it was ******ed to need to bribe people to PvP. lol while a good point, I see no reasona 5-10% discount in the LP store would be a big deal. and the PvE missions are a mess.
Jarlath Whitbray	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:30:00 - [103] Originally by: Antonia Frak You can do honest hype, but this is not honest. I'm not a cult follower of CCP. Trolls, fans or neutrals aren't either, we are just customers, there is no way we should "justify" this, it's ridiculous. Hi. I think I'll start my forum career by stating that I don't like your kind of people. You demands and demand more because you believe you have the right. Eg. if your stuff breaks, do you demand two new items in return simply because your stuff broke instead of getting your broken stuff repaired? I bet you do. At any rate, your expectations are unreasonable and this is CCP's game, you can quit anytime, kay? Meanwhile, two people like me will enter the game and like it enough to stay, because we trust CCP knows what it's doing based on what we have seen.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:34:00 - [104] Originally by: Akor Flandres Originally by: Cailais why bother? Don't let the door hit you on the way out then. Can I have your stuff? your ment to slam the door !!!! This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
jade ronin	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:23:00 - [105] Quote: What would happen if (when?) CCP unveils first-person planetary combat, with no direct connections to space combat/industry? Will everyone shout it down, claiming it goes against the very backbone of Eve? That people will move to that kind of PvP and empty out space of pilots? i really hope that if/when they make fps planetary combat it has no connections to the game, not because it would hurt eve as it is but it would hurt te fps side. i for one would love to see a fps with as much depth as eve ... damn you devs for playing fps videos in the back ground and getting me excited about something that has never been anounced lol
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:57:00 - [106] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Bolded/italicized/underlined the important part. Seriously? Sure I agree 100% that it makes the most sense to have fewer subsystems that are well executed and highly polished delivered on time than to have five subsystems that are total crap, but the way you're talking, it's kind of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? If you deliver the initial T3 ships pre-nerfed the way CCP has traditionally done things (Stealth Bombers, BlackOps BS etc.) then player response will be lukewarm and apathetic and then you won't deem further development of the systems worthwhile. It is critical that T3 be amazing and spectacular upon release, for every other aspect of the expansion rests on the success of T3 being interesting enough for the player base to pursue. If it's not, then there is no point in venturing into wspace for the parts to build T3, or developing production infrastructure to produce T3 ships. Unless T3 ships present a clear performance advantage over existing designs there won't be much demand for them given their initial cost, complexity and risk. Sure some people (like myself) will still do crazy stuff like fly Marauders for PVP on a regular basis, and I might dabble in T3 even if it's not all that great performance wise, but if it's not extremely popular- as popular as mainstream content like Tier 3 BS for example, or T2 modules, then all that time and effort to develop all that new content is going to end up like say, COSMOS missions- a complete waste. Something esoteric and rare that is looked upon as a novelty rather than a key component of Eve game play. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.02.26 01:09:00 - [107] CCP just needs to shelf the expansion and wait a couple of months. It is nowhere near ready- it's not even ready for sisi. It would be on an internal test server at this point. Nothing has even worked on sisi. Stripping it down to barebones is not going to make it a good expansion. It's not ready.
Comae Berenices	Posted - 2009.02.26 01:24:00 - [108] Kids having a riot here... What you want? 1. Tons of stuff with tons of bugs 2. Less stuff without bugs Quality pwns. Period. After you see the whole patch notes for upcoming release you will realise how huge it actually is...
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.26 06:52:00 - [109] Originally by: Vaedon [stuff] I think you might have missed the point / reason Misanth and I are so upset by the prospect of a combat simulator: 1) It creates a totally safe, risk-free, consequence-free environment. Granted, it is also (hopefully) reward-free. But instanced, safe, no-consequence, no-risk, fully consensual PVP? ... It doesn't fit in EVE, I think, especially cause it sort of flies in the face of everything I've ever heard said about the game 2) It doesn't add any gameplay options that don't already exist. You want to be a gladiatorial team manager? Okay. Meet a bunch of guys, get a team, post on the forums, set up a tournament schedule, and do it! You don't need a simulator to do that. One of EVE's strengths is that you don't need this kind of prepackaged, structured mechanic in order to put together an event or something. 3) Consensual PVP already exists; you can get a fight as quickly as asking for a 1v1 in Amarr local and dropping a can. You can already bet on it. You can already agree to stop at structure or what have you (but, being EVE, you can't always trust them to ). Or just go to Sisi. Plenty of consequence-free PVP there. 4) Ranking systems? You know how you get a reputation as being a good PVPer? You go out and you kill a **load of people - you earn that reputation. Including some sort of 'ranking' system seems to undermine that. I think there's room for a simulator-like thing in EVE. I'd like to see a simple RTS personally. Instead of fitting each one of your ship's individually they'd have 4 sliders (damage/speed/hp/range) that you can adjust (and increasing one decreases the others by some amount). Or, alternatively, the simulator would need to be so unpleasant to use that whenever you went to use it, you said "ugh i don't want to use the damn simulator" and did it for realz instead. __________________________________ Originally by:** CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.26 07:44:00 - [110] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 26/02/2009 07:45:24 Actually a simulator and an "arena" would be JUST what EVE world would have. Maybe not EVE GAME world, but EVE world. You know, RP side of things? The world we live in? You seriously think that in a ruthless world like ours, there wouldn't be some form of arena combat thing, filmed for the masses? Ofcourse "real" PVP guys will start to hate "arena" PVPers as nothing more then "pansy arena pilots", but that's a GOOD thing. I'll add to the general topic we're having this; What are you going to do? Take it or leave? Then do. You can't change things with this, so why waste everyones time? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.26 07:57:00 - [111] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 26/02/2009 07:45:24 Actually a simulator and an "arena" would be JUST what EVE world would have. Maybe not EVE GAME world, but EVE world. You know, RP side of things? The world we live in? Which is more important - whether a mechanic fits in with the game world, or whether it fits in with the game? Originally by: Sheriff Jones What are you going to do? Take it or leave? Then do. You can't change things with this, so why waste everyones time? Aww, okay, I guess I'll stop trying to provide feedback on features I don't think are good ideas and are bad for the game and just quietly fall back into line. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.26 08:01:00 - [112] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 26/02/2009 07:45:24 Actually a simulator and an "arena" would be JUST what EVE world would have. Maybe not EVE GAME world, but EVE world. You know, RP side of things? The world we live in? Which is more important - whether a mechanic fits in with the game world, or whether it fits in with the game? Originally by: Sheriff Jones What are you going to do? Take it or leave? Then do. You can't change things with this, so why waste everyones time? Aww, okay, I guess I'll stop trying to provide feedback on features I don't think are good ideas and are bad for the game and just quietly fall back into line. A: TO YOU. YOU don't feel it's a good addition. Doesn't make it a bad addition. Fits the world, works as a stepping stone to PVP, eases alot of players into that aspect of the game etc. Plenty of good in it, but since you already ARE in PVP(i assume), you don't like it. B: No, the second part was towards the Apocrypha and what is coming no matter what. That you should just shut up about and take because there's nothing you can do. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.02.26 08:30:00 - [113] Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 26/02/2009 08:30:09 Wouldn't a major risk of arena fighting be the massive ISK stakes you'd need to put up to fight? Say, 50m a fight. You win, big reward. You lose, big hit to your ISK levels. ________________________________________________
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.26 08:32:00 - [114] Originally by: Doctor Penguin Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 26/02/2009 08:30:09 Wouldn't a major risk of arena fighting be the massive ISK stakes you'd need to put up to fight? Say, 50m a fight. You win, big reward. You lose, big hit to your ISK levels. Good point really. Or even "pink slips" style arena fighting where you could set your own "simulated ship" as the prize. If it's done ell, it creates a whole new way of setting up events etc. At current it's the "flip a can and fight" thing, but even that is cumbersome sometimes. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Aeo IV Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:37:00 - [115] What a mess. I mean, here's the basic timeline of events, as far as I can tell. -CCP tells us that they're going to be introducing t3 ships, they don't say much about the nature of them. -We later find out that these 't3 ships' are only going to be cruiser sized, and that they're not nearly as customizable as CCP originally stated. -Next the post a Dev Blog telling us they're dropping classic client because they're tired of making models (or some nonsense) twice for every expansion. -fast forward to when Apo hit Sisi. First we find out it's extremely buggy, most of the models are incomplete, and the graphics are messed up. Over time it emerges that CCP has in fact been changing a lot of the graphics and models in game, but it isn't clear how much. -Next, we have our first look at these Sleepers, they're reported to be insanely difficult, CCP brushes it off as "well we spawned the hardest versions" -Details emerge about how t3 modules will be created... increasingly it becomes painfully clear that CCP is trying to make w-space a sort of 'mini-career' fiesta, with part of the materials coming from gas mining, part of the materials from salvaging, and bpcs coming from various artifacts and what not. Further more, it's made clear that CCP, while marketing wormholes as for all players, that they will only really be for 0.0 alliances, given the need to use low or null sec poses. -More details appear about the graphical changes (which weren't needed!). -Now we find out that 2 of the modules of the original 5 per section (as originally promised) aren't going to make it into the game, because CCP is too busy redoing the graphics. Mean while, CCP has 11 days to get this all together. I think CCP's problem is they like too many novel things, and they don't want to go back and make needed changes to features that are already in the game. I mean at this point the next expansion should just be one big bug-patch, fixing the black ops, fixing the various problems, etc. I've been feeling rather frustrated with this whole expansion, because most of the content is going to be out of my reach-- if I can still play the game at all without shelling out hundreds on a new graphics card, and a lot of what I will be able to use, like the attribute respec, the skill queue, and the t2 salvager, really should have been in the game from day one, no excuses. I really hope that CCP spends it's time from march 10 to the end of summer fixing the problems they should have fixed by now, and simply forget new content until the old content works correctly. I realize it's not as fun as adding a new ship or whatever, but it needs to be done.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:48:00 - [116] Originally by: Sheriff Jones A: TO YOU. YOU don't feel it's a good addition. Doesn't make it a bad addition. Fits the world, works as a stepping stone to PVP, eases alot of players into that aspect of the game etc. Plenty of good in it, but since you already ARE in PVP(i assume), you don't like it. That's fair but it's hardly a stepping stone. You and I both know that there's a lot more to PVP than just the shooting. Besides the biggest problem with starting to PVP is getting over the fact that you'll lose your ship, a lot, and it'll suck. You know, the "risk" bit. Taking away the risk is... well, it's exactly what CCP did with the intro to character creation really. People found all the choices too complicated and confusing, so instead of making them more clear and meaningful, they just made all of them mean the same thing - nothing. It's the lazy way out imho. Quote: B: No, the second part was towards the Apocrypha and what is coming no matter what. That you(people in general) should stop complaining about and take because there's nothing you can do. I agree completely. Everything on Sisi is completely final. That's why they're asking for feedback and changing stuff every day. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:52:00 - [117] any chance you can fix black ops in time for the expantion or will we have to wait a few more years before anything good happens to those ships?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.26 10:24:00 - [118] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Sheriff Jones A: TO YOU. YOU don't feel it's a good addition. Doesn't make it a bad addition. Fits the world, works as a stepping stone to PVP, eases alot of players into that aspect of the game etc. Plenty of good in it, but since you already ARE in PVP(i assume), you don't like it. That's fair but it's hardly a stepping stone. You and I both know that there's a lot more to PVP than just the shooting. Besides the biggest problem with starting to PVP is getting over the fact that you'll lose your ship, a lot, and it'll suck. You know, the "risk" bit. Taking away the risk is... well, it's exactly what CCP did with the intro to character creation really. People found all the choices too complicated and confusing, so instead of making them more clear and meaningful, they just made all of them mean the same thing - nothing. It's the lazy way out imho. Quote: B: No, the second part was towards the Apocrypha and what is coming no matter what. That you(people in general) should stop complaining about and take because there's nothing you can do. I agree completely. Everything on Sisi is completely final. That's why they're asking for feedback and changing stuff every day. A: That's speculating that there's no risk in the arena combat. Let's not go there. Your concerns are valid, but even if it was simply a "funsy time" addition, i don't see a harm. Let's leave that arena discussion to when it's more current affairs. B: Those on SiSi do have a reporting tool i assume? Also things like "3 modificators instead of 5 'cause we don't have time", well, that just can't be helped. Ofcourse if something can have a feedback effect, those on SiSi should use the power to do so. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.26 11:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Sheriff Jones A: That's speculating that there's no risk in the arena combat. Let's not go there. Your concerns are valid, but even if it was simply a "funsy time" addition, i don't see a harm. Let's leave that arena discussion to when it's more current affairs. Virtual + simulator + code having problems coming up with something that doesn't get destroyed normally -> yeah I guess it could still have some risk but you'll forgive the assumption that it's, you know, virtual and a simulator like said. Mostly I'm kinda peeved that it was planned to make it in and wasn't announced. Pleasant surprises are one thing, undermining one of the game's core principles isn't :P Quote: B: Those on SiSi do have a reporting tool i assume? Also things like "3 modificators instead of 5 'cause we don't have time", well, that just can't be helped. Ofcourse if something can have a feedback effect, those on SiSi should use the power to do so. Eh, it just feels kind of silly to be putting this stuff off until after the release, you know? It's not like they're trying to get it done on time. they're rushing to get it done three months early I dunno, just feels like CCP kinda got shafted here :P sucks really Of course I'm HOPING apocrypha is great and I'm sure some of it will be but it feels like some of it is going to get lost due to time constraints that didn't have to be there. 's a waste really. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.26 11:10:00 - [120] Originally by: ArmyOfMe any chance you can fix black ops in time for the expantion or will we have to wait a few more years before anything good happens to those ships? they've already said BOps won't be changed this time.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.26 11:14:00 - [121] Originally by: Terianna Eri I dunno, just feels like CCP kinda got shafted here :P sucks really If i had to guess on my previous dealing with Atari, yes, shafting...big shafting My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.26 11:20:00 - [122] Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/02/2009 11:20:38 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Terianna Eri I dunno, just feels like CCP kinda got shafted here :P sucks really If i had to guess on my previous dealing with Atari, yes, shafting...big shafting who gives a ****, I just ran the new tutorial. BADASS. this thing needs to come out 4 years ago. tech 3 ships can wait. and even the 1st mission in the ne wepic arc REAKED of video game version of a cornicle.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.26 13:59:00 - [123] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: ArmyOfMe any chance you can fix black ops in time for the expantion or will we have to wait a few more years before anything good happens to those ships? they've already said BOps won't be changed this time. i know, i just cant understand why they put out new content when they cant even fix the content they have. damn pre-nerf crap
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.26 14:14:00 - [124] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: ArmyOfMe any chance you can fix black ops in time for the expantion or will we have to wait a few more years before anything good happens to those ships? they've already said BOps won't be changed this time. i know, i just cant understand why they put out new content when they cant even fix the content they have. damn pre-nerf crap I'm guessing that Black Ops were someone's special project; they've left/abandoned it and now no-one really knows what to do with them. Or cares.
Primnproper	Posted - 2009.02.26 14:19:00 - [125] A fine example of why pushing the summer expansion forward to march just to fit in with the release of disc version of the game (and maybe because JG:E was penned for release in march till it slipped again) is really really stupid... I'd prefer to wait a few months and get finished, balanced and properly tested new features rather than incomplete, pre-nerfed, buggy features in march and I think everyone else would probably agree with me. The worst thing is I'm really excited about the t3 and wormholes but I can't help expecting it to be poorly executed and no use to anyone until at least the time it should have been released if they weren't trying to rush it out. Lets just hope they prove me wrong...... ... Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Khalish Mo'Tashi	Posted - 2009.02.26 14:50:00 - [126] Edited by: Khalish Mo''Tashi on 26/02/2009 14:53:25 The one thing that CCP should probably consider doing is at least correct the text in the features page for Apocrypha. There are not going to be "thousands of combinations" possible at release. There will be precisely 972 combinations across the four races, or 243 per race until the final 40 subsystems are released. This isn't even one thousand. This is one thousand less thirty-eight. It just sort of feels like they're going to attempt to bring people in with incorrect facts. I mean... sure, they mention it right at the end of that little paragraph about it, but that doesn't remove the fact that it's a blatantly misleading statement.
Sarin Adler	Posted - 2009.02.26 15:07:00 - [127] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: ArmyOfMe any chance you can fix black ops in time for the expantion or will we have to wait a few more years before anything good happens to those ships? they've already said BOps won't be changed this time. i know, i just cant understand why they put out new content when they cant even fix the content they have. damn pre-nerf crap I'm guessing that Black Ops were someone's special project; they've left/abandoned it and now no-one really knows what to do with them. Or cares. Like so many features? The question is, is going to be T3 an other edfdition of 'half-done and forgotten stuff'? I would love to see an expansion JUST dedicated to balancing,fixing/making worth it a ton of features we have in the game which are esoteric stuff because they are not worth it. People is whining at people whining, so it's ok, is their (CCP) game, but we are not whining for nothing, afterall we all want a better game, devs should listen to playerbase soemtime. Does really CCP think we need new broken/half-done stuff all the time? And yes, not moaning guys on their inside I'm sure would like to see ALL that forgotten stuff fixed someway or other.
Cailais Amarr Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:03:00 - [128] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Bolded/italicized/underlined the important part. Seriously? It is critical that T3 be amazing and spectacular upon release, for every other aspect of the expansion rests on the success of T3 being interesting enough for the player base to pursue. If it's not, then there is no point in venturing into wspace for the parts to build T3, or developing production infrastructure to produce T3 ships. I agree 100% with Bellum on this. Let's face it the lack of the additional subsystems is a huge 'apocryphail' (sorry couldnt resist). Without the additional subsystems the whole variety and scope of the T3 cruisers becomes significantly 'meh'. What's stupifying is that t0rfifrans then comes back with 'we might not even do that if its not popular'. ?! So basically all that hype at Fan Fest was what? One gigantic marketing exercise? This news has totally dented my enthusiasm for what promised to be perhaps the best expansion in EVE's history. Not any more. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
MILK Monk Rytiri Lva R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:14:00 - [129] Edited by: MILK Monk on 26/02/2009 16:14:27 Originally by: Khalish Mo'Tashi ....There will be precisely 972 combinations .... This is one thousand less thirty-eight fail, pres win button+r, type "calc", use it again :) __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:22:00 - [130] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Bolded/italicized/underlined the important part. Seriously? It is critical that T3 be amazing and spectacular upon release, for every other aspect of the expansion rests on the success of T3 being interesting enough for the player base to pursue. If it's not, then there is no point in venturing into wspace for the parts to build T3, or developing production infrastructure to produce T3 ships. I agree 100% with Bellum on this. Let's face it the lack of the additional subsystems is a huge 'apocryphail' (sorry couldnt resist). Without the additional subsystems the whole variety and scope of the T3 cruisers becomes significantly 'meh'. What's stupifying is that t0rfifrans then comes back with 'we might not even do that if its not popular'. ?! So basically all that hype at Fan Fest was what? One gigantic marketing exercise? This news has totally dented my enthusiasm for what promised to be perhaps the best expansion in EVE's history. Not any more. C. I'll put it in simple terms for you: Reality happens. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Sarin Adler	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:34:00 - [131] Or marketing happens maybe?
Cailais Amarr Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:40:00 - [132] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The time the fifth variation will be launched is dependant on the interest and pick-up of T3 ships. Would I have liked to have all five at M10? Of course? But considering the life time of assets in EVE, I want what goes in there to be polished and smooth rather than rushed so the decision was taken to focus on the three and make them awesome, which they certainly are. Bolded/italicized/underlined the important part. Seriously? It is critical that T3 be amazing and spectacular upon release, for every other aspect of the expansion rests on the success of T3 being interesting enough for the player base to pursue. If it's not, then there is no point in venturing into wspace for the parts to build T3, or developing production infrastructure to produce T3 ships. I agree 100% with Bellum on this. Let's face it the lack of the additional subsystems is a huge 'apocryphail' (sorry couldnt resist). Without the additional subsystems the whole variety and scope of the T3 cruisers becomes significantly 'meh'. What's stupifying is that t0rfifrans then comes back with 'we might not even do that if its not popular'. ?! So basically all that hype at Fan Fest was what? One gigantic marketing exercise? This news has totally dented my enthusiasm for what promised to be perhaps the best expansion in EVE's history. Not any more. C. I'll put it in simple terms for you: Reality happens. Thankyou, I was having difficulty with the non simple terms. Suprising how often it happens around here though. tbh - I wouldnt be bothered about M10 being a scaled down expansion if I had any faith that the remaining elements were enroute within a few weeks. But everything in my experience with EVE suggests this will not be the case. T3 will remain as 3^5 subsystems. Sorry but I just hate seeing so much potential being wasted. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:41:00 - [133] It is reality, but it is also reality, that people aren't going to fly ships that are bad in comparison to other options. They also like to fly ships that fit certain roles. The better and more options CCP provides, the more interest there will be towards T3. The ONLY strength of T3 seems to be their breadth of options, so the more options CCP cuts, the less interesting these ships come>>less interest in wormholes>> less interest in produscing T3 and so on. CCP is the only one who can greatly influence the fate of T3. The novelty will carry them for some time, but after that there has to be some clear advantage of using them over the cheaper T2 specialized ships people have in their hangars. Those advantages can be greatly increase with the addition of the missing subsystems, so you can actually combine them to do several specialized things at the same time.
NeoTheo Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.26 16:46:00 - [134] Originally by: Verone It's pretty funny to watch the amount of whinging on these forums at times. Fact of the matter is, if CCP had decided to release all 5 and they were buggy and/or unbalanced, people would have complained. Conversely, if CCP had decided to cut back and only release three to focus on quality, which they have, then push the rest out in mini .xx patches for Apocrypha, then people would have complained, which they are. thats because there are a bunch of us STILL waiting on a 4th bonus for assault frigates, blackops not to suck arse and a bunch of other "lets fix this later" things. sorry V, we have become cynical over ccp's ability to revisit content later. - F-OFF - ExE

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