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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
497
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:20:00 -
[331] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:3807 views already. Assuming that the average reader needed 20 minutes to read that manifesto, that would be a total of 1269 hours that people spent reading this. Assuming all of them have jobs and earn an average of 12 $ per hour, that would be 15228 $ of RL currency destroyed by OP. You are taking that economical warfare thing to whole new level, James. Congratulations on a job well done.
Way above top secret you are. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |

Grim Savage
suspended animations DOT None Of The Above
2
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:25:00 -
[332] - Quote
would read again.
Grim Savage. |

Drago Palermus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:30:00 -
[333] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Then you clearly do not know what a "sandbox" is. A sandbox has walls. It is a box. Within the box there is sand of which you may do whatever you want. In other words you have rules to follow but within those rules you can do whatever you want. That is a sandbox. EVE is a sandbox game. Yes...the rules change but that does not change the fact that it is still a sandbox. There is nothing that has changed that doesn't make sense. You are just butthurt that you can't be a pirate as easily anymore. You were making ISK at no risk beyond what you already planned for at the expense of other players that are defenseless. Now that the rules are tweaked to make things harder for you, you want to complain. It is that simple.
The carebears aren't ruining anything. They are playing the game how they want in the relative "safety" of High Sec. They happen to make the wheels of EVE turn. Without them you would be paying a lot more for your throwaway ships that you gank them with. Then your piracy would be nowhere near as profitable and you would lose out. Those miners do more for this game than you do killing ships. Congrats, I think you "don't get it" more than any other commentator in this thread (though I admit to skipping a few pages).
You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.
To take the sandbox mechanic to its fullest extent then there would be NO CONCORD and the only way that you could live out your rocks-in-space fantasy would be to actually learn how to defend yourself. True anarcho-capitalism. The exact opposite of what you think "sandbox mechanics" means.
(In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.) |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
490
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:31:00 -
[334] - Quote
You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread. |

Win Sui
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:33:00 -
[335] - Quote
Yuki 0nna wrote:Insane and ugly from start to finish. How can people work themselves up to speak this way about other human beings, fellow players?
You all do know what it sounds way, way too much like, don't you? What it reeks of? Surprising the last section wasn't entitled "A Final Solution."
Misquoted - attributed to doubleplesungood unperson. Ministry of Truth to rectify quote. Ministry of Love to rectify unperson. |

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders RISE of LEGION
77
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:34:00 -
[336] - Quote
TL; DR. But I agree with your sentimonies. Death to hisec miners and so forth. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
887
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:36:00 -
[337] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread.
So what would you classify me as, hmmm?
|

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1586
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:45:00 -
[338] - Quote
Drago Palermus wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Then you clearly do not know what a "sandbox" is. A sandbox has walls. It is a box. Within the box there is sand of which you may do whatever you want. In other words you have rules to follow but within those rules you can do whatever you want. That is a sandbox. EVE is a sandbox game. Yes...the rules change but that does not change the fact that it is still a sandbox. There is nothing that has changed that doesn't make sense. You are just butthurt that you can't be a pirate as easily anymore. You were making ISK at no risk beyond what you already planned for at the expense of other players that are defenseless. Now that the rules are tweaked to make things harder for you, you want to complain. It is that simple.
The carebears aren't ruining anything. They are playing the game how they want in the relative "safety" of High Sec. They happen to make the wheels of EVE turn. Without them you would be paying a lot more for your throwaway ships that you gank them with. Then your piracy would be nowhere near as profitable and you would lose out. Those miners do more for this game than you do killing ships. Congrats, I think you "don't get it" more than any other commentator in this thread (though I admit to skipping a few pages). You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules. To take the sandbox mechanic to its fullest extent then there would be NO CONCORD and the only way that you could live out your rocks-in-space fantasy would be to actually learn how to defend yourself. True anarcho-capitalism. The exact opposite of what you think "sandbox mechanics" means. (In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.) What you don't get is that every sandbox has rules. Without rules this game wouldn't be a game at all and nobody would play it. EVE is still a sandbox game no matter how misguided your views might be on the matter. Without rules every ship would do infinite damage with infinite guns and have infinite armor flying at infinite speed with an infinite color spectrum for trails. Even then the fact that everything is infinite suggests that there are still rules. What you want is impossible. In short. You are wrong.
I am also NOT a miner. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:52:00 -
[339] - Quote
Invitus wrote:Congrats sir, You have caused 14 pages of pubbie tears about how wrong you are. My favourite is the one that complains about how a one man corp can wardec and ruin a mining corp: Takseen wrote::words:
Then there's the fact that its a totally assymetric war. How would the miners strike back against a one man corp, when your combat pilot only joined right before striking? The whole thing is a bad joke, and I hope the next expansion improves things. He clearly didn't read the bit about defending your miners. Some skillpoints in PvP would really help him out. However, a request for next time, please don't sign your post.
Yeah cheers for snipping all the relevant bits. Let's review what OP did. Took a seemingly harmless one man corp, and wardecced a bunch of industrial corps. Risk to the OP, zero, because his main char isn't even in the corp. Risk to the industrial corps, seemingly minimum. Then, at a moment of his choosing, he plops his Ishtar pilot into the wardeccing corp right before striking. If that particular mining op is sufficiently guarded that an Ishtar couldn't do any damage, all he needs do is pick another target.
The end result. One pilot can cause a lot of disruption with very little personal risk. If the Ishtar pilot had to make more of a commitment, and was able to be attacked back in return, I'd be able to take him more seriously.
Combat in Eve, especially when mining ships are involved, just favours the attacker too heavily for defense of mining ops to be very worthwhile. They're literally better off taking the same approach most shops and homes in real life do, hoping no one tries to rob them, and having insurance if they do. |

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
118
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:53:00 -
[340] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am also NOT a miner. But you ARE a terrible poster. +1 in local |

Benny Ohu
The Lazy Dragoons True Apathy
70
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:53:00 -
[341] - Quote
I enjoyed reading that, thankyou |

Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:55:00 -
[342] - Quote
Righteous bump. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
242
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:56:00 -
[343] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am also NOT a miner. But you ARE a terrible poster.
And a former member of OWN Alliance, ahahahaha eh |

Hamshoe
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:58:00 -
[344] - Quote
Drago Palermus wrote: You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.
SandBOX.
Rules are intrinsic. |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1586
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:00:00 -
[345] - Quote
Hamshoe wrote:Drago Palermus wrote: You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.
SandBOX. Rules are intrinsic. This guy gets it. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1586
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:01:00 -
[346] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am also NOT a miner. But you ARE a terrible poster. And a former member of OWN Alliance, ahahahaha And you are a member of Goonswarm. Much more laughable than my corp history for sure. What's your point? EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:02:00 -
[347] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: what are the anti ganking nerfs that have been put into effect lately? The only real one I know of was the insurance thing but EVERY GANKER EVER says that wasnt imporant anyways or thats what they kept saying after the change was made.
They made tier 3 BCs with battleship guns and no tank to speak of. They are in effect ganking role ships.
There's also the fact that offensive dps increases have massively outstripped increases in tank for miners. T2 guns, faction ammo, artillery buffed to be alpha gods, a whole heap of different skills that can be dumped into dps increases, and not a whole lot that can increase your tank, especially passive tank.
If you constantly buff a pirate's ability to lock and kill ****, and only buff a miner's mining yield, suicide ganking is just the natural progression.
|

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
491
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:03:00 -
[348] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread. So what would you classify me as, hmmm? I didn't say anything about your posts and haven't actually read any of them. So if after reading my post you you think I'm talking about you, then you're projecting your opinions onto my post.
In that case the person who thinks you're miner, or at least posts like a miner is you. |

Whambot
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:10:00 -
[349] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:3807 views already. Assuming that the average reader needed 20 minutes to read that manifesto, that would be a total of 1269 hours that people spent reading this. Assuming all of them have jobs and earn an average of 12 $ per hour, that would be 15228 $ of RL currency destroyed by OP. You are taking that economical warfare thing to whole new level, James. Congratulations on a job well done.
Those are two giant assumptions both of which are probably wrong. I dont think half the people commenting read that giant essay, myself included.
Based on the amount of time the OP had to put in to making this post I'd say his life is probably a $$ faucet. |

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
227
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:11:00 -
[350] - Quote
Interesting reading for sure. I guess I'm an anomoly, perhaps because of the length of time I've been playing as the OP suggests.
I don't want to remove PvP from highsec, despite being an industrialist, and yes indeed, a miner.
Honestly, how long to you think CCP can hold out against the droves of subscriber dollars they'd rake in if they "safezoned" highsec? We got a wee sniff of CCP's lust for money with Incarna...which was an attempt to bring in players who want something other than unrestricted PvP as the entirety of their gaming experience in EvE.
You think they'll cave in anytime soon, or hold out for the niche PvP boys forever?
I could care less. I'm doing my thing making stuff for you guys to blow up. Creation is so much more satisfying than destruction. |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
808
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:15:00 -
[351] - Quote
Takseen wrote:There's also the fact that offensive dps increases have massively outstripped increases in tank for miners. T2 guns, faction ammo, artillery buffed to be alpha gods, a whole heap of different skills that can be dumped into dps increases, and not a whole lot that can increase your tank, especially passive tank.
If you constantly buff a pirate's ability to lock and kill ****, and only buff a miner's mining yield, suicide ganking is just the natural progression. If you continually allow everyone in high sec to easily evade war decs, and to continue earning non-meaningless amounts of ISK, then suicide ganking is the natural progression. In fact, it is the only course of action left.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

L4ST
Helios Alliance C0NVICTED
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:16:00 -
[352] - Quote
Let Highsec be safe, and make it too small to hold all players which there currently are. Safeplayers shall be safe, but without all the profit.
And give more expensive Insurances with way more payout. Makes ppl care less about being blown up, even the Jews.
btw lol @ all "qq u all carebears!"-guys with 5 bil+ in their wallet. |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
809
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:17:00 -
[353] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am also NOT a miner. Looks like a miner, smells like a miner, whines like a miner.
Yup, seems like a pretty straight forward case of denial.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Kerist Lafayette
The Lafayette Family
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:19:00 -
[354] - Quote
James 315 wrote:By the time you finish reading this Manifesto II,
Still a virgin, I see. Well, never give up hope |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
809
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:20:00 -
[355] - Quote
L4ST wrote:Let Highsec be safe, and make it too small to hold all players which there currently are. Safeplayers shall be safe, but without all the profit.
And give more expensive Insurances with way more payout. Makes ppl care less about being blown up, even the Jews.
btw lol @ all "qq u all carebears!"-guys with 5 bil+ in their wallet. Pfft, 5b is for poor people.
And none of us are denying being care bears, I even know a few goons that spend most of their time bearing it up, what we do object to is to risk averse high sec carebears that want to kill PvP and just sit in their high sec safe zones with tol barad guards concord fighting their fights for them.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:21:00 -
[356] - Quote
Drago Palermus wrote: (In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.)
And player subs would be measured in the hundreds, or at best thousands. Cast your eyes across the MMO genre, and try and spot any of them with similar engagement rules, and check their subscriber numbers. Only one I'm aware of that fits the bill is Mortal Online, and that game is tiny. Carebears keep CCP solvent, griefers make it unique and interesting. Extremists who want to cater only to one of these groups should not be catered to. |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
809
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:23:00 -
[357] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Drago Palermus wrote: (In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.)
And player subs would be measured in the hundreds, or at best thousands. Cast your eyes across the MMO genre, and try and spot any of them with similar engagement rules, and check their subscriber numbers. Only one I'm aware of that fits the bill is Mortal Online, and that game is tiny. Carebears keep CCP solvent, griefers make it unique and interesting. Extremists who want to cater only to one of these groups should not be catered to. Concord was not omnipotent when Eve was created, subscriptions still rose steadily and Eve's reputation was, if anything, even greater than it is now.
Eve's reputation has been damaged by every single care bear orientated expansion they have ever released, going further down that route seems unwise in the extreme.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Velicitia
Open Designs
887
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:24:00 -
[358] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread. So what would you classify me as, hmmm? I didn't say anything about your posts and haven't actually read any of them. So if after reading my post you you think I'm talking about you, then you're projecting your opinions onto my post. In that case the person who thinks you're miner, or at least posts like a miner is you.
Nope, nothing like that at all.
I happen to be a miner, but I'm definitely not one of the whiny ones that want CCP to nerf hisec into the ground so that it's a completely safe haven.
I hate getting lumped in with them
|

Wille Sanara
Felador night Corp
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:29:00 -
[359] - Quote
Show us on the doll, where the miners touched you. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
660
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:29:00 -
[360] - Quote
Xython wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Hi sec miners are the main low ends providers. Whatever you do to them, ANY kind of reduction of their yield, will reflect in double digits % prices increase. The less of them / the less efficient of them you get, the higher you pay them.
"It's ok that we bot and use cheat programs to prevent us from ever having to face death, because THE ECONOMY NEEDS US."
"I can also fart unrelated crap in general directions." Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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