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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.23 09:00:00 -
[151]
Kewl idea in this thread: Originally by: Orb Lati
Ive been reading alot of requests for tractor beams for scoping cargo containers.
As a minmatar a scoff at the idea of using a "beam" to do my work, sounds a bit too Amarrish.
Heres a better solution in keeping with our races can do nature
I want a electomagnet on the end of a steel cable and winch, which i can fire at the containers at some distance turing on the magnet and draging the container closer to me.
Hell with all the changes the "CCP techies" have done to my guns i need the target practice i can get.
anyway Nurf the beams, Boost the projectiles :)
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.23 09:00:00 -
[152]
Kewl idea in this thread: Originally by: Orb Lati
Ive been reading alot of requests for tractor beams for scoping cargo containers.
As a minmatar a scoff at the idea of using a "beam" to do my work, sounds a bit too Amarrish.
Heres a better solution in keeping with our races can do nature
I want a electomagnet on the end of a steel cable and winch, which i can fire at the containers at some distance turing on the magnet and draging the container closer to me.
Hell with all the changes the "CCP techies" have done to my guns i need the target practice i can get.
anyway Nurf the beams, Boost the projectiles :)
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Ilfar
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Posted - 2004.09.24 13:16:00 -
[153]
Originally by: S'Daria
...I just tried to summarize it for someone who doesn't necessarily want to take the time to read 3 pages of thread.
Great, found that AFTER reading through the rest of the thread... Doh! ;) :)
I've never had to loot BS corpses after killing them before, but I'd imagine the transit time must be something on the order of trying to pick up loot in my hauler (which means I can definitely see a need for something to help with this). I think a large portion of complaints about making it easier on ore thieves could be dismissed if you could differentiate between jettison cans and loot cans and only use these measures on the loot cans.
My preference for a solution would be a drone, a little larger than a decent heavy combat drone (both for the larger engines needed, and the comm gear needed to operate it at a longer range). Preferably make it able to haul the entire loot can back and dump the contents in your hold. Have the speed while hauling the can back dependant on the size of the load inside the can, and unable to haul anything over around 500m3?
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Press to test...
*click*
Release to detonate... |
Ilfar
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Posted - 2004.09.24 13:16:00 -
[154]
Originally by: S'Daria
...I just tried to summarize it for someone who doesn't necessarily want to take the time to read 3 pages of thread.
Great, found that AFTER reading through the rest of the thread... Doh! ;) :)
I've never had to loot BS corpses after killing them before, but I'd imagine the transit time must be something on the order of trying to pick up loot in my hauler (which means I can definitely see a need for something to help with this). I think a large portion of complaints about making it easier on ore thieves could be dismissed if you could differentiate between jettison cans and loot cans and only use these measures on the loot cans.
My preference for a solution would be a drone, a little larger than a decent heavy combat drone (both for the larger engines needed, and the comm gear needed to operate it at a longer range). Preferably make it able to haul the entire loot can back and dump the contents in your hold. Have the speed while hauling the can back dependant on the size of the load inside the can, and unable to haul anything over around 500m3?
*-----------------------*
Press to test...
*click*
Release to detonate... |
S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.25 00:34:00 -
[155]
Edited by: S'Daria on 25/09/2004 00:41:14
I think, besides having the drone solution that having a solution for Industrials would be good.
Tractor and Transfer beams should be able to installed in the 2nd High (non-turret) slot.
I still like the "grapple-hook" approach...that too should be a non-turret high-slot.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.25 00:34:00 -
[156]
Edited by: S'Daria on 25/09/2004 00:41:14
I think, besides having the drone solution that having a solution for Industrials would be good.
Tractor and Transfer beams should be able to installed in the 2nd High (non-turret) slot.
I still like the "grapple-hook" approach...that too should be a non-turret high-slot.
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2004.09.26 17:53:00 -
[157]
A lot of these ideas are really good. I personally quite liked the tractor beam in freelancer, but it would need some modifying for eve. Salvage drone is also a great idea. I dont see any issue with ore thiefs for a couple of reasons. Firstly if shiva does indeed present criminal flagging, ore thiefs wont be able to operate effectively. Secondly , make the tractor beams or drones only able to pick up the un-named containers. By this i mean, that all containers in EVE that are not npc loot , have their owners names on them (jettisoned and secure). Use the drone skills etc that were mentioned, or set up the tractor beam for 10km base, with 5km per level addition. Ore thiefs would not be able to use them either way. Due to the fact that we dont really have enough slots to waste on our ships (especially with lev4 agents on the way) , have them inbuilt on all ships, or just stick with the salvage drones. Either way something needs doing, and as an active caldari torp/cruise missile crazy lev3 kill mission runner i cant think of anything i would love to see more than this.
Also the thing that wasnt brought up until the overview that was posted, was the fact that ore-theifs couldnt effectively use the salvage drones anyway due to the fact that indy's cant hold drones. Wonder if we will start seein em out in 1300m3 exequeror's 
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2004.09.26 17:53:00 -
[158]
A lot of these ideas are really good. I personally quite liked the tractor beam in freelancer, but it would need some modifying for eve. Salvage drone is also a great idea. I dont see any issue with ore thiefs for a couple of reasons. Firstly if shiva does indeed present criminal flagging, ore thiefs wont be able to operate effectively. Secondly , make the tractor beams or drones only able to pick up the un-named containers. By this i mean, that all containers in EVE that are not npc loot , have their owners names on them (jettisoned and secure). Use the drone skills etc that were mentioned, or set up the tractor beam for 10km base, with 5km per level addition. Ore thiefs would not be able to use them either way. Due to the fact that we dont really have enough slots to waste on our ships (especially with lev4 agents on the way) , have them inbuilt on all ships, or just stick with the salvage drones. Either way something needs doing, and as an active caldari torp/cruise missile crazy lev3 kill mission runner i cant think of anything i would love to see more than this.
Also the thing that wasnt brought up until the overview that was posted, was the fact that ore-theifs couldnt effectively use the salvage drones anyway due to the fact that indy's cant hold drones. Wonder if we will start seein em out in 1300m3 exequeror's
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.27 02:53:00 -
[159]
Time to pick up loot:
Screeny
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.27 02:53:00 -
[160]
Time to pick up loot:
Screeny
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2004.09.28 04:31:00 -
[161]
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2004.09.28 04:31:00 -
[162]
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.28 11:08:00 -
[163]
Here's my attempt to summarize everything suggested/said so far (updated from page 4):
Complaints: Picking up Loot...
- ...is a time sink, faster cargo pickup would make the game more enjoyable
- ...takes longer than killing rats, not fun
- ...from asteroid fields is tricky, hard to manuever in some ships
- ...without an MWD can take 10+ minutes for long range combat types
- ...over a 200-square km area takes alot of time
- ...is tidious and boring
- ...is annoying, especially when its useless stuff or when there are alot of cans
- ...is not fun, its like playing connect the dots intead you have diamonds on your screen
Complaints:
- Default range of 1.5km for looking in a cargo is too short
- Don't like the idea of having to put a MWD because its a mid-slot and shield/cap hit
- Battleship with MWD is very limiting
- Increasing intervals between rat spawn to give time to pickup loot would not be enjoyable
- Don't spend time coding to fix this problem
- Don't make picking up cargo too easy
- Any high-slot solution will probably never be used
- Spending 30 minutes picking up loot after 10 minutes of fighting is not fun
- Funny how advanced the world of EVE is and there's no technology to pickup cargo
- Don't have us beg for this new feature
Recommended Drone types:
- Salvage drones - drones that pick up cargo and drop into cargobay like what Mining Drones do with Ore
- Cargo drones - drones that drag the cargo container towards you
- Cargo Scanner drone - would move closer and provide cargo scan info
Recommended for slotted items:
- Cargo Transporters - teleports cargo into the ship's hold
- Increase the range of Cargo scanners
- Add a new module called "Cargo Manager" which would pick up loot automatically
- Grappling hook (Minmatar approach) to grab cans
Skill Recommendations:
- Cargo Management: Increases the default 1.5km range of pickup/view
- Cargo Management: Increases the range to to pick up by +20%/level (upto 100%, maximum 3km instead of 1.5km)
- Salvage: Increases range to pickup/look by 2km per level (maximum at 11.5km)
General recommendations:
- Immediately keep the target on can after killing a rat
- Add an icon on the cargo window to 'Scoop to Cargo' when opening a can
- When you double click on a container it auto loads into your cargo
- Increase range of pickup/view to from 1.5km to 3-5km
- Allow mining drones to pick up cargo (since they already pick up ore)
- Drop loot into 1 container, especially for missions
- Forsaken Ruins story already refers to them
- Add the option "Scoop to Cargo" on a cargo can
- Have NPC only drop named loot, otherwise no loot at all
- Have autopickup like Hack/NetHack
- Add an option to automatically pickup loot within 1.5km of a container
- Allow people to install a shuttle that they can remotely pilot to pickup cargo (especially in Battleships)
- Auto scan containers within 30km, without a Cargo Scanner
- Double clicking any can within 30km loots it into your cargo container
- Have a built-in tractor beam
Salvage drones suggestions:
- Small drone, (600 m/s, drone size: 50m3, cargo size: 10-25m3)
- Medium drone, (450 m/s, drone size: 100m3, cargo size: 25-50m3)
- Large drone, (300 m/s, drone size: 250m3, cargo size: 100-125m3)
- Positive: Ore thieves couldn't use since industrialials don't have drones
- Range needs to be at least 40-50km
- Negative: Industrials could not take advantage of this since they don't have drone bays
- Salvage Drone Operation: Increases range/speed/or amount of cargo drones can pickup
- If items can't be picked up by drone, a message pops up
- Drone makes several trips back and forth until cargo is transfered
- A FOF Salvage drone, picks up loot without having to target (Battleships can take upwards of a minute to target a can)
- Don't require that ship have a lock to pick up cargo
- Have these drones have built-in cargo containers so they can hold more than their size allows (whatever that expando technology is called)
Tractor Beams suggestions:
- Moves a cargo container towards you at 50-100 m/s (no target required)
- OR moves cargo container towards you at 500 m/s (can use crystals to modify range/speed)
- Upto 10 cans can be 'pulled' towards you at a time
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Small Intensity Tractor Beam: High slot, transfer 10m3/sec at 15km range
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: Would be used by ore thieves
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
Transfer Beam suggestions:
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.28 11:08:00 -
[164]
Here's my attempt to summarize everything suggested/said so far (updated from page 4):
Complaints: Picking up Loot...
- ...is a time sink, faster cargo pickup would make the game more enjoyable
- ...takes longer than killing rats, not fun
- ...from asteroid fields is tricky, hard to manuever in some ships
- ...without an MWD can take 10+ minutes for long range combat types
- ...over a 200-square km area takes alot of time
- ...is tidious and boring
- ...is annoying, especially when its useless stuff or when there are alot of cans
- ...is not fun, its like playing connect the dots intead you have diamonds on your screen
Complaints:
- Default range of 1.5km for looking in a cargo is too short
- Don't like the idea of having to put a MWD because its a mid-slot and shield/cap hit
- Battleship with MWD is very limiting
- Increasing intervals between rat spawn to give time to pickup loot would not be enjoyable
- Don't spend time coding to fix this problem
- Don't make picking up cargo too easy
- Any high-slot solution will probably never be used
- Spending 30 minutes picking up loot after 10 minutes of fighting is not fun
- Funny how advanced the world of EVE is and there's no technology to pickup cargo
- Don't have us beg for this new feature
Recommended Drone types:
- Salvage drones - drones that pick up cargo and drop into cargobay like what Mining Drones do with Ore
- Cargo drones - drones that drag the cargo container towards you
- Cargo Scanner drone - would move closer and provide cargo scan info
Recommended for slotted items:
- Cargo Transporters - teleports cargo into the ship's hold
- Increase the range of Cargo scanners
- Add a new module called "Cargo Manager" which would pick up loot automatically
- Grappling hook (Minmatar approach) to grab cans
Skill Recommendations:
- Cargo Management: Increases the default 1.5km range of pickup/view
- Cargo Management: Increases the range to to pick up by +20%/level (upto 100%, maximum 3km instead of 1.5km)
- Salvage: Increases range to pickup/look by 2km per level (maximum at 11.5km)
General recommendations:
- Immediately keep the target on can after killing a rat
- Add an icon on the cargo window to 'Scoop to Cargo' when opening a can
- When you double click on a container it auto loads into your cargo
- Increase range of pickup/view to from 1.5km to 3-5km
- Allow mining drones to pick up cargo (since they already pick up ore)
- Drop loot into 1 container, especially for missions
- Forsaken Ruins story already refers to them
- Add the option "Scoop to Cargo" on a cargo can
- Have NPC only drop named loot, otherwise no loot at all
- Have autopickup like Hack/NetHack
- Add an option to automatically pickup loot within 1.5km of a container
- Allow people to install a shuttle that they can remotely pilot to pickup cargo (especially in Battleships)
- Auto scan containers within 30km, without a Cargo Scanner
- Double clicking any can within 30km loots it into your cargo container
- Have a built-in tractor beam
Salvage drones suggestions:
- Small drone, (600 m/s, drone size: 50m3, cargo size: 10-25m3)
- Medium drone, (450 m/s, drone size: 100m3, cargo size: 25-50m3)
- Large drone, (300 m/s, drone size: 250m3, cargo size: 100-125m3)
- Positive: Ore thieves couldn't use since industrialials don't have drones
- Range needs to be at least 40-50km
- Negative: Industrials could not take advantage of this since they don't have drone bays
- Salvage Drone Operation: Increases range/speed/or amount of cargo drones can pickup
- If items can't be picked up by drone, a message pops up
- Drone makes several trips back and forth until cargo is transfered
- A FOF Salvage drone, picks up loot without having to target (Battleships can take upwards of a minute to target a can)
- Don't require that ship have a lock to pick up cargo
- Have these drones have built-in cargo containers so they can hold more than their size allows (whatever that expando technology is called)
Tractor Beams suggestions:
- Moves a cargo container towards you at 50-100 m/s (no target required)
- OR moves cargo container towards you at 500 m/s (can use crystals to modify range/speed)
- Upto 10 cans can be 'pulled' towards you at a time
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Small Intensity Tractor Beam: High slot, transfer 10m3/sec at 15km range
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: Would be used by ore thieves
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
Transfer Beam suggestions:
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.28 11:10:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Ricdic
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
I think you have to be logged in to see it. Try it again or copy it into your browser.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.28 11:10:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Ricdic
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
I think you have to be logged in to see it. Try it again or copy it into your browser.
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Raymond Drake
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Posted - 2004.09.30 18:24:00 -
[167]
Some of these suggested features would be nice.
Agreed.
Raymond Drake
Weaver of the Dream
DreamScape Corporation
DreamScape Digest Editor-in-Chief |
Raymond Drake
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Posted - 2004.09.30 18:24:00 -
[168]
Some of these suggested features would be nice.
Agreed.
Raymond Drake
Weaver of the Dream
DreamScape Corporation
DreamScape Digest Editor-in-Chief |
Trell Artela
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Posted - 2004.10.01 09:05:00 -
[169]
Brilliant ideas, fully agree.
I'd personally opt for both salvage drones and tractor beam simply because some ships (e.g. thorax) have fewer slots but lots of drone space and others (e.g. maller) have little/no drone space but more slots.
And if the tractor beam were a high-slot item it'd give some more purpose to those notorious "utility slots". Heck, a even buddy in an indy on loot pickup detail would be a viable option then
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Trell Artela
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Posted - 2004.10.01 09:05:00 -
[170]
Brilliant ideas, fully agree.
I'd personally opt for both salvage drones and tractor beam simply because some ships (e.g. thorax) have fewer slots but lots of drone space and others (e.g. maller) have little/no drone space but more slots.
And if the tractor beam were a high-slot item it'd give some more purpose to those notorious "utility slots". Heck, a even buddy in an indy on loot pickup detail would be a viable option then
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.01 11:48:00 -
[171]
Hmm...I wonder if Tractor Beams should be offensive weapons as well?
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.01 11:48:00 -
[172]
Hmm...I wonder if Tractor Beams should be offensive weapons as well?
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Trell Artela
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Posted - 2004.10.01 14:32:00 -
[173]
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much 
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Trell Artela
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Posted - 2004.10.01 14:32:00 -
[174]
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.02 01:01:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Trell Artela
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
Both. Using a tractor beam on an object or on someone else who is not in your corp or gang should be considered an offensive action. Originally by: Trell Artela
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
A battleship should be able to use a Tractor beam against a frigate. Originally by: Trell Artela
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much
I like ideas too 
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.02 01:01:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Trell Artela
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
Both. Using a tractor beam on an object or on someone else who is not in your corp or gang should be considered an offensive action. Originally by: Trell Artela
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
A battleship should be able to use a Tractor beam against a frigate. Originally by: Trell Artela
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much
I like ideas too
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Plastic
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Posted - 2004.10.04 20:14:00 -
[177]
I hate looting o.o
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Plastic
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Posted - 2004.10.04 20:14:00 -
[178]
I hate looting o.o
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.05 00:15:00 -
[179]
As do I. Unfortunately because of the code freeze some time ago its unlikely we'll see any of these changes in Shiva.
We'll find out tomorrow if they were able to sneak any in. 
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.05 00:15:00 -
[180]
As do I. Unfortunately because of the code freeze some time ago its unlikely we'll see any of these changes in Shiva.
We'll find out tomorrow if they were able to sneak any in.
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