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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:39:00 -
[1]
I have seen many threads about the need to have something that makes it easier to scoop the content of cargo containers.
I would like to collect all arguments why this is needed and all your suggestions on how to make it easier here.
When you collect all arguments for and against its easier for the devs to form an opinion on this and understand what the public thinks or feels about this and why.
If you have made long threads about this then you are free to reply with a short summary and link to a well thoguht of post of yourself elsewhere.
I dare you to impress me and DEVS when they get a chance to read this 
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:39:00 -
[2]
I have seen many threads about the need to have something that makes it easier to scoop the content of cargo containers.
I would like to collect all arguments why this is needed and all your suggestions on how to make it easier here.
When you collect all arguments for and against its easier for the devs to form an opinion on this and understand what the public thinks or feels about this and why.
If you have made long threads about this then you are free to reply with a short summary and link to a well thoguht of post of yourself elsewhere.
I dare you to impress me and DEVS when they get a chance to read this
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:45:00 -
[3]
 Umm...because flying to scoop up cargo is simply not fun. It is a pointless timesink that I frankly find boring - the 'difficulty' should lie in killing the rats not picking up the cargo.
Many suggestions have been offered to 'rectify' this - things such as 'salvage' drones, tractor beams, cargo transporters (ie. you can scoop cargo from lets say within 20km (an ore theif's dream))
Making it possible to scoop cargo quicker would simply make it a more enjoyable gaming experience.
The Sloth.
P.S. Eris I know you were hoping for some profound argument, however the reasoning is quite simple - in my opinion at least.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:45:00 -
[4]
Umm...because flying to scoop up cargo is simply not fun. It is a pointless timesink that I frankly find boring - the 'difficulty' should lie in killing the rats not picking up the cargo.
Many suggestions have been offered to 'rectify' this - things such as 'salvage' drones, tractor beams, cargo transporters (ie. you can scoop cargo from lets say within 20km (an ore theif's dream))
Making it possible to scoop cargo quicker would simply make it a more enjoyable gaming experience.
The Sloth.
P.S. Eris I know you were hoping for some profound argument, however the reasoning is quite simple - in my opinion at least.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.22 22:18:00 -
[5]
yeah sometimes it takes longer to take the loot than to kill the ppl! and thats just wrong >< i mean i see lots of ppl just ignore loot sometimes cause its not worthin going over there and getting it, or just the bs loot or just the cruiser loot, i find that sad cause there might be good loot in the other cans, if u dont want to make it so that u dont have to do that why dont u have a drone that will show u whats in the can so u can decide if its worth the time or not?
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.22 22:18:00 -
[6]
yeah sometimes it takes longer to take the loot than to kill the ppl! and thats just wrong >< i mean i see lots of ppl just ignore loot sometimes cause its not worthin going over there and getting it, or just the bs loot or just the cruiser loot, i find that sad cause there might be good loot in the other cans, if u dont want to make it so that u dont have to do that why dont u have a drone that will show u whats in the can so u can decide if its worth the time or not?
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2004.08.23 00:58:00 -
[7]
This is a non issue.
It doesnt take that long to collect loot from containers.
I will admit there are some Mission locations where static containers are located within Astorid caves which can be a bit tricky but i would rather ask for beeter object detection so i can manuver more easily around roids and objects.
If you find that your long range, slow moving setup means that you take to long collecting items in containers then reconsider your fitout.
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Orb Lati
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Posted - 2004.08.23 00:58:00 -
[8]
This is a non issue.
It doesnt take that long to collect loot from containers.
I will admit there are some Mission locations where static containers are located within Astorid caves which can be a bit tricky but i would rather ask for beeter object detection so i can manuver more easily around roids and objects.
If you find that your long range, slow moving setup means that you take to long collecting items in containers then reconsider your fitout.
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.08.23 02:12:00 -
[9]
right now, you can fit a mwd and make loot pickup faster.. but ever tried it without? its insanely slow, even in frigates. even if you fight medium range, at 30k, it can still take upwards of 10 minutes to collect all the cans. for those that prefer long range hunting, its necessary to bookmark the can, warp out, and back in at the can. my apoc does 140m/s without a mwd i believe.. to fly 30k takes 3.5 minutes. then once i get to that can, i have several more minutes of flying to get to the next one. and so on.
simple truth is its NOT needed... its simply a convenience we want added, much like the shuttles or the ability to set destination from the assets window, to reduce/eliminate one of the more tedious portions of this game.
My Idea Thread
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Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.08.23 02:12:00 -
[10]
right now, you can fit a mwd and make loot pickup faster.. but ever tried it without? its insanely slow, even in frigates. even if you fight medium range, at 30k, it can still take upwards of 10 minutes to collect all the cans. for those that prefer long range hunting, its necessary to bookmark the can, warp out, and back in at the can. my apoc does 140m/s without a mwd i believe.. to fly 30k takes 3.5 minutes. then once i get to that can, i have several more minutes of flying to get to the next one. and so on.
simple truth is its NOT needed... its simply a convenience we want added, much like the shuttles or the ability to set destination from the assets window, to reduce/eliminate one of the more tedious portions of this game.
My Idea Thread
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ElDiabloRojo
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Posted - 2004.08.23 08:50:00 -
[11]
Personally im not sure about the idea of scooping a cargo container itself. on a lag free connection scooping is the same as select all and dragging into your cargo.
However there are a few things i do think are needed in the game. Firstly the ability to SEE whats inside a cargo can at a higher range then 1.5km i mean come on! Thousands of years in the future and scanners cant penetrate something that is itself described as weak and thin material. 5km at LEAST but im talking much greater (skill related?).
Secondly is a faster way to get to the container, ok u right clicked and pressed SCAN and got a report with a 95% accuracy or whatever and u see in letters that seem to emit their own light "1400mm 'Scout' Artillery". But the containers 60km away and your ina BS. By the time u get there more NPCs will of shown up, most likely in that exact spot. So i can think of 2 ways to do this. Firstly how about a drone, call it what u will. given the average value of stuff in a container a ****er scooper drone would be fairly accurate. basicly it has a skill whos bonus adds to the range of this type of drone, its fairly big but also very fast. has no weapons. it just flies up, grabs all the stuff and comes back. drops it in your hold like a mining drone and orbits (or goes back for more in the case of a REALLY full can). This could also be given a feature where u can send stuff over ina drone... bit more complex for the targeting system but would really make drones more realistic (orbit, attack, mine as the only options really sucks the life out of a cool-o-meter)
The other idea was just a tractor beam of sorts, give it a range and say it adds a pulling force to whatever u use it on. High slot mod?
I spose a "transporter" would be ok but too star trek for my liking (not that theres anything wrong with star trek, its just nothing like eve and so shouldnt be mixed)
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ElDiabloRojo
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Posted - 2004.08.23 08:50:00 -
[12]
Personally im not sure about the idea of scooping a cargo container itself. on a lag free connection scooping is the same as select all and dragging into your cargo.
However there are a few things i do think are needed in the game. Firstly the ability to SEE whats inside a cargo can at a higher range then 1.5km i mean come on! Thousands of years in the future and scanners cant penetrate something that is itself described as weak and thin material. 5km at LEAST but im talking much greater (skill related?).
Secondly is a faster way to get to the container, ok u right clicked and pressed SCAN and got a report with a 95% accuracy or whatever and u see in letters that seem to emit their own light "1400mm 'Scout' Artillery". But the containers 60km away and your ina BS. By the time u get there more NPCs will of shown up, most likely in that exact spot. So i can think of 2 ways to do this. Firstly how about a drone, call it what u will. given the average value of stuff in a container a ****er scooper drone would be fairly accurate. basicly it has a skill whos bonus adds to the range of this type of drone, its fairly big but also very fast. has no weapons. it just flies up, grabs all the stuff and comes back. drops it in your hold like a mining drone and orbits (or goes back for more in the case of a REALLY full can). This could also be given a feature where u can send stuff over ina drone... bit more complex for the targeting system but would really make drones more realistic (orbit, attack, mine as the only options really sucks the life out of a cool-o-meter)
The other idea was just a tractor beam of sorts, give it a range and say it adds a pulling force to whatever u use it on. High slot mod?
I spose a "transporter" would be ok but too star trek for my liking (not that theres anything wrong with star trek, its just nothing like eve and so shouldnt be mixed)
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ElDiabloRojo
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Posted - 2004.08.23 08:55:00 -
[13]
Edited by: ElDiabloRojo on 23/08/2004 08:56:50
 Originally by: Orb Lati
This is a non issue.
If you find that your long range, slow moving setup means that you take to long collecting items in containers then reconsider your fitout.
duno if u wanted a discussion but i have a coment on this. its a new reply so u can delte with ease i guess :)
but your clearly meaning to fit a MWD here. firstly a MWD takes up a whole mid slot, some ships have only 2/3 in the first place. seccondly they take 25% of your cap, bye bye constant laser mr APOC. thridly they take 25% shield, bye bye 7000+ shields mr Raven. i mean think about what your saying. why dont we just go into a 0.0 belt alone with only small guns and no spare ammo... heck lets drop the drones and insurance too. and dont forget to make sure no 1s within 5 jumps that could help u. if its a choice between loosing 25% of my shields or 500M^3 of drone bay ill take the drone bay thanks.
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ElDiabloRojo
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Posted - 2004.08.23 08:55:00 -
[14]
Edited by: ElDiabloRojo on 23/08/2004 08:56:50
Originally by: Orb Lati
This is a non issue.
If you find that your long range, slow moving setup means that you take to long collecting items in containers then reconsider your fitout.
duno if u wanted a discussion but i have a coment on this. its a new reply so u can delte with ease i guess :)
but your clearly meaning to fit a MWD here. firstly a MWD takes up a whole mid slot, some ships have only 2/3 in the first place. seccondly they take 25% of your cap, bye bye constant laser mr APOC. thridly they take 25% shield, bye bye 7000+ shields mr Raven. i mean think about what your saying. why dont we just go into a 0.0 belt alone with only small guns and no spare ammo... heck lets drop the drones and insurance too. and dont forget to make sure no 1s within 5 jumps that could help u. if its a choice between loosing 25% of my shields or 500M^3 of drone bay ill take the drone bay thanks.
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Dane
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Posted - 2004.08.23 09:16:00 -
[15]
I don't have a problem with the way the current setup is for scooping loot, but here are a few ideas.
It would be nice if I remained targeted in some way on the container after I killed whatever it was. If you move around a lot during combat, it can be time consuming looking for those containers, especially if there are already a lot of containers around.
How about if I could just double click on a container to open it when on the approach. Or perhaps just being able to double click on the contents of the container to have it move to your hold.
The tractor beam idea is very E&B...and we know where they went 
Looking for someone to make me a sig banner. Please eve-mail me :) No ridiculous offers need apply. |
Dane
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Posted - 2004.08.23 09:16:00 -
[16]
I don't have a problem with the way the current setup is for scooping loot, but here are a few ideas.
It would be nice if I remained targeted in some way on the container after I killed whatever it was. If you move around a lot during combat, it can be time consuming looking for those containers, especially if there are already a lot of containers around.
How about if I could just double click on a container to open it when on the approach. Or perhaps just being able to double click on the contents of the container to have it move to your hold.
The tractor beam idea is very E&B...and we know where they went
Looking for someone to make me a sig banner. Please eve-mail me :) No ridiculous offers need apply. |
Arte
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Posted - 2004.08.23 11:56:00 -
[17]
Why it's needed? I think that it's an enjoyment thing.. it detracts from the game slightly if hunting NPCs or scavenging is your thing. The right opinion is that why in all this futuristic times have we not thought of a way to open them up or fetch them with more ease. I think that fitting an mwd is a viable option (I dont fly BS so ner) but you fire it up and fly past the can cos even with approach you can't stop at the can because ship mechanics won't slow it down for you in time. So you take longer. When you're doing a mission where you need to clear a spawn to open a can (temple stone for instance) you dont want to be hanging around. I think that the option is to open up the range for scooping contents to say 3km or maybe even 5km. I know this will affect ore thiefs but that's a different arguement. The scanner drone is mute i think cos we already have cargo scanners (am i right in saying the work on jet cans?) but perhaps the Dev's could work harder on the salvage drone. Make it a heavy so that you have an inbuilt difficulty (saves time nerfing it later), or vary size so that each size can carry more or less cargo as appropriate. or even just drag the cans to the parent ship.
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Arte
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Posted - 2004.08.23 11:56:00 -
[18]
Why it's needed? I think that it's an enjoyment thing.. it detracts from the game slightly if hunting NPCs or scavenging is your thing. The right opinion is that why in all this futuristic times have we not thought of a way to open them up or fetch them with more ease. I think that fitting an mwd is a viable option (I dont fly BS so ner) but you fire it up and fly past the can cos even with approach you can't stop at the can because ship mechanics won't slow it down for you in time. So you take longer. When you're doing a mission where you need to clear a spawn to open a can (temple stone for instance) you dont want to be hanging around. I think that the option is to open up the range for scooping contents to say 3km or maybe even 5km. I know this will affect ore thiefs but that's a different arguement. The scanner drone is mute i think cos we already have cargo scanners (am i right in saying the work on jet cans?) but perhaps the Dev's could work harder on the salvage drone. Make it a heavy so that you have an inbuilt difficulty (saves time nerfing it later), or vary size so that each size can carry more or less cargo as appropriate. or even just drag the cans to the parent ship.
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Zzazzt
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:59:00 -
[19]
The "problem" is really when fighting BS spawns in a BS. Fitting MWD can cripple your setup, and collecting loot in a BS takes far longer than killing the spawn, most of the time. With the 0.0 spawn changes in recent patches, I regularly found myself being jumped by a secondary (different faction) spwan whilst still collecting the loot from the primary. There's nothing wrong with the actual scooping mechanic (apart from the odd lag bug), it's just the time it takes to get over to the pesky things.
Because of this, as has been previously stated, people often leave the loot behind (especially if you're killing npcs in downtime between engagements), which leads to semi-permanent can fields, which of course create lag on the spawn.
Any solution (salvage drones being the most continuous with the eve universe imo) which would reduce the amount of time needed to collect loot would be most welcome to 99% of the rat-hunting population, i should think.
____________________________________________
MLM: Gentlemen at Play |
Zzazzt
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:59:00 -
[20]
The "problem" is really when fighting BS spawns in a BS. Fitting MWD can cripple your setup, and collecting loot in a BS takes far longer than killing the spawn, most of the time. With the 0.0 spawn changes in recent patches, I regularly found myself being jumped by a secondary (different faction) spwan whilst still collecting the loot from the primary. There's nothing wrong with the actual scooping mechanic (apart from the odd lag bug), it's just the time it takes to get over to the pesky things.
Because of this, as has been previously stated, people often leave the loot behind (especially if you're killing npcs in downtime between engagements), which leads to semi-permanent can fields, which of course create lag on the spawn.
Any solution (salvage drones being the most continuous with the eve universe imo) which would reduce the amount of time needed to collect loot would be most welcome to 99% of the rat-hunting population, i should think.
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MLM: Gentlemen at Play |
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Von Schnopp
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Posted - 2004.08.23 15:29:00 -
[21]
From the most obvious solutions to this probelm being:
A. increased intervals between rat spawning giving the concerned BS pilot enough time to scoop the loot with the downside being a less merry NPC hunt....
B. ...and introducing long range tractor beams/transfer beams that are bound to become the favourite christmas present of orethieves....
...I'd rather see salvage drones capable of moving the cans closer to the ship or simpy bring the loot into the cargo hold. Question is, will they be restricted to 40-50km as their bigger brothers or will there be a salvage drone skill allowing for long range operation (20% extra range per level or something).
"Dying for your corp is just stupid, make those other bastards die for theirs instead" |
Von Schnopp
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Posted - 2004.08.23 15:29:00 -
[22]
From the most obvious solutions to this probelm being:
A. increased intervals between rat spawning giving the concerned BS pilot enough time to scoop the loot with the downside being a less merry NPC hunt....
B. ...and introducing long range tractor beams/transfer beams that are bound to become the favourite christmas present of orethieves....
...I'd rather see salvage drones capable of moving the cans closer to the ship or simpy bring the loot into the cargo hold. Question is, will they be restricted to 40-50km as their bigger brothers or will there be a salvage drone skill allowing for long range operation (20% extra range per level or something).
"Dying for your corp is just stupid, make those other bastards die for theirs instead" |
Rask
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Posted - 2004.08.23 18:51:00 -
[23]
I would love this, and i understand the problem with ore thieves.
how about this a tractor beam that slowly moves cans towards you, say 50m/s and has a max range of 100m, it doesn't need the can targeted to work.
You can have up to 10 cans under tractor at one time and if a can is under tractor it can't be tractored by someone else.
This would let a miner tractor the can he is filling and also give the concord a way of detecting ore theft. ie if you take goods froma can that is under tractor it is the same as opening opening a secure can.
As the can he is filling is under tractor then it can't be stolen.
The idea of cargo transport by transporter beam isn't realistic IMHO as stated ore thieves would love this,
The other alternitive is cargo can drones, that will fetch cans and bring them back to you.
One thing this would also let you do is move your jetisoned can that you are filling along with you when you need to move to mine more rocks of the kind you are mineing.
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Rask
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Posted - 2004.08.23 18:51:00 -
[24]
I would love this, and i understand the problem with ore thieves.
how about this a tractor beam that slowly moves cans towards you, say 50m/s and has a max range of 100m, it doesn't need the can targeted to work.
You can have up to 10 cans under tractor at one time and if a can is under tractor it can't be tractored by someone else.
This would let a miner tractor the can he is filling and also give the concord a way of detecting ore theft. ie if you take goods froma can that is under tractor it is the same as opening opening a secure can.
As the can he is filling is under tractor then it can't be stolen.
The idea of cargo transport by transporter beam isn't realistic IMHO as stated ore thieves would love this,
The other alternitive is cargo can drones, that will fetch cans and bring them back to you.
One thing this would also let you do is move your jetisoned can that you are filling along with you when you need to move to mine more rocks of the kind you are mineing.
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Wyckoff
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Posted - 2004.08.23 20:15:00 -
[25]
Why is it needed:
Why not? Is Tracking disrupter needed when you can use a Ecm Burst? Why use Projectiles when you have Beams or Hyrbrids. No, silly argument. How about its just plain convienent, like having Jump Gates.
And keep it to simple Salvage Drones. I'm not sure which Industrials have Drone Bays, only using the Bestower, but I do know the Bestower doesn't. That way we make those Pesky Ore-relocationists have to travel for others' ore.
Besides, there is NO reason not to have them:
1. They are a convienence.
2. They are technolocially feasible from an Eve Standpoint.
3. There is a demand.
Sounds like all the ingredients necessary for a consumer driven market.
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"I Type with my Tongue" |
Wyckoff
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Posted - 2004.08.23 20:15:00 -
[26]
Why is it needed:
Why not? Is Tracking disrupter needed when you can use a Ecm Burst? Why use Projectiles when you have Beams or Hyrbrids. No, silly argument. How about its just plain convienent, like having Jump Gates.
And keep it to simple Salvage Drones. I'm not sure which Industrials have Drone Bays, only using the Bestower, but I do know the Bestower doesn't. That way we make those Pesky Ore-relocationists have to travel for others' ore.
Besides, there is NO reason not to have them:
1. They are a convienence.
2. They are technolocially feasible from an Eve Standpoint.
3. There is a demand.
Sounds like all the ingredients necessary for a consumer driven market.
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"I Type with my Tongue" |
Jemba'k Ko'cha
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Posted - 2004.08.23 20:29:00 -
[27]
have to agree with everyone else. i tend to hunt at around 30km out only dropping in closer if the enemy manages to get close. on one agent mission i did the other day i killed 20 rats, their cans were spread over an area of about 200 square km's so it took me forever to go from can to can to can.
either a Drone for collecting loot or some form of tractor beam (5km starting distance, skill lvl 1 gives 6km, lvl 2 gives 8, lvl 3 gives 11, lvl 4 gives 15 and lvl 5 gives 20km)
make us spend less time picking up rubbish and more time ENJOYING the game and in turn making us want to play for longer.
i feel that no one option is correct, drones are good for the likes of cruisers/BS etc but tractor beams would be handy for Indys who for some bizarre rason have NO drone capacity. 6000m cubed of storage space and not a single one allocated to drones.
some form of cargo retrieval i tihnk is essential. the 2 obvious choices are of course tractor beams or drones. either way i tihnk your going to make more people happy than unhappy.
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Knowledge is the bomb |
Jemba'k Ko'cha
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Posted - 2004.08.23 20:29:00 -
[28]
have to agree with everyone else. i tend to hunt at around 30km out only dropping in closer if the enemy manages to get close. on one agent mission i did the other day i killed 20 rats, their cans were spread over an area of about 200 square km's so it took me forever to go from can to can to can.
either a Drone for collecting loot or some form of tractor beam (5km starting distance, skill lvl 1 gives 6km, lvl 2 gives 8, lvl 3 gives 11, lvl 4 gives 15 and lvl 5 gives 20km)
make us spend less time picking up rubbish and more time ENJOYING the game and in turn making us want to play for longer.
i feel that no one option is correct, drones are good for the likes of cruisers/BS etc but tractor beams would be handy for Indys who for some bizarre rason have NO drone capacity. 6000m cubed of storage space and not a single one allocated to drones.
some form of cargo retrieval i tihnk is essential. the 2 obvious choices are of course tractor beams or drones. either way i tihnk your going to make more people happy than unhappy.
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Knowledge is the bomb |
David Corbett
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Posted - 2004.08.23 21:55:00 -
[29]
I'm rather new, but already I note the annoyance factor in icking those up. As I'm a Caldari flying a Caracal, my setup is long-range. I usually am engaged in a running firefight with some guristas types, and when I'm done, I discover I have a nice little constellation of cans over 100km long. (Case in point: The Barricade mission.) There's no way I'm going to run over there and grab them all... it's pretty bad for us, considering our long range/not that fast ship bent. Not so bad for Minmatar, considering their (relatively) shorter range and faster ships.
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David Corbett
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Posted - 2004.08.23 21:55:00 -
[30]
I'm rather new, but already I note the annoyance factor in icking those up. As I'm a Caldari flying a Caracal, my setup is long-range. I usually am engaged in a running firefight with some guristas types, and when I'm done, I discover I have a nice little constellation of cans over 100km long. (Case in point: The Barricade mission.) There's no way I'm going to run over there and grab them all... it's pretty bad for us, considering our long range/not that fast ship bent. Not so bad for Minmatar, considering their (relatively) shorter range and faster ships.
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Thaylor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:31:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Thaylor on 24/08/2004 03:42:00
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=103311
I fly in a BS and do agent missions only to have to spend sometimes 10 minutes picking up cargo.
I use a cargo scanner so I don't pick up every can either.
I use a MWD and as long as the container is 9-12km away I can MWD to it and stop fast enough to drag the contents into my cargo hold.
If the contents are less than 9km I have to Approach. I'm lucky that I move at 230m/sec so its not too bad, but I would really like to remove all the 5 Overdrives in my low slots and use some other modules.
I can't use an afterburner because I need the medium slots to recharge my capacitor.
Anyhow, I think the problem could be solved in a couple of ways:
1. Increase the range to pick-up cargo containers to at least 3km or even 5km (this way those that can't stop have more time to fly-by). Have a skill to increase the range if you want called Cargo Management.
2. Have Salvage Drones that can pick up items:
A. Salvage Drone Skill (x1) (5km per skill point range for Salvage drones)
B. Have different sized salvage drones that can pick up say 25m3, 50m3 or 125m3 of items (Drone size would be 50m3, 100m3 and 250m3 size in drone bay).
C. If the item to too large a message pops up
D. If there are too many items the drone makes several trips until all the items are removed from the container.
If you even wanted to make them Tech II I would still buy them at 10mil each!!!
The tractor beam idea is kewl too, but I wouldn't use it because I have too few modules.
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Thaylor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:31:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Thaylor on 24/08/2004 03:42:00
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=103311
I fly in a BS and do agent missions only to have to spend sometimes 10 minutes picking up cargo.
I use a cargo scanner so I don't pick up every can either.
I use a MWD and as long as the container is 9-12km away I can MWD to it and stop fast enough to drag the contents into my cargo hold.
If the contents are less than 9km I have to Approach. I'm lucky that I move at 230m/sec so its not too bad, but I would really like to remove all the 5 Overdrives in my low slots and use some other modules.
I can't use an afterburner because I need the medium slots to recharge my capacitor.
Anyhow, I think the problem could be solved in a couple of ways:
1. Increase the range to pick-up cargo containers to at least 3km or even 5km (this way those that can't stop have more time to fly-by). Have a skill to increase the range if you want called Cargo Management.
2. Have Salvage Drones that can pick up items:
A. Salvage Drone Skill (x1) (5km per skill point range for Salvage drones)
B. Have different sized salvage drones that can pick up say 25m3, 50m3 or 125m3 of items (Drone size would be 50m3, 100m3 and 250m3 size in drone bay).
C. If the item to too large a message pops up
D. If there are too many items the drone makes several trips until all the items are removed from the container.
If you even wanted to make them Tech II I would still buy them at 10mil each!!!
The tractor beam idea is kewl too, but I wouldn't use it because I have too few modules.
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Thaylor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 03:39:00 -
[33]
Just finished "The Blockade" agent 3 mission and this is what my scanner looks like:
Cargo Container 47 km
Cargo Container 54 km
Cargo Container 55 km
Cargo Container 56 km
Cargo Container 61 km
Cargo Container 63 km
Cargo Container 68 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 77 km
Cargo Container 86 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 88 km
Cargo Container 100 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 103 km
Concord Billboard 106 km
Cargo Container 121 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 124 km
Cargo Container 126 km
Cargo Container 132 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 135 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 142 km
Cargo Container 143 km
Cargo Container 150 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 151 km
Cargo Container 160 km
Cargo Container 176 km
Cargo Container 190 km
Cargo Container 213 km
18 Cargo containers.
I started the mission at 02:39. 1 warp and 18 dead pirates later it took about 26 minutes.
Its now 03:05 and I'm starting to pick them up using an MWD, in a battleship and 75% cap.
At 03:15 I warped back to the station to get the bonus reward slated for 03:19.
At 03:17 talked to agent and got mission bonus with 2 minutes to spare.
At 03:18 I undocked from station and warped back to a cargo container I bookmarked.
Arrived back at 03:19 and I still have 10 more cargo containers to pick up.
Its 03:27 and still have 4 more cargo containers to go.
Finally picked up all 18 containers at 03:30.
Warped back to station and started next mission at 03:32.
I wrote this post while moving between cargo containers...btw.
Mission to Mission Time difference: (03:32-02:39) 53 minutes
Time spent moving to mission location: ~5 minutes (4 jumps)
Time spent completing mission objective: ~23 minutes
Time spent picking up cargo containers: 25 minutes
So in my case it took me just a little bit longer to pick up the loot from the 18 pirates than it did for me to kill them.
I thought this would help show how much time is spent picking up loot.
When there's only 5 containers it usually takes less than 5 minutes to pick them up so the example I gave above is an extreme example.
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Thaylor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 03:39:00 -
[34]
Just finished "The Blockade" agent 3 mission and this is what my scanner looks like:
Cargo Container 47 km
Cargo Container 54 km
Cargo Container 55 km
Cargo Container 56 km
Cargo Container 61 km
Cargo Container 63 km
Cargo Container 68 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 77 km
Cargo Container 86 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 88 km
Cargo Container 100 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 103 km
Concord Billboard 106 km
Cargo Container 121 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 124 km
Cargo Container 126 km
Cargo Container 132 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 135 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 142 km
Cargo Container 143 km
Cargo Container 150 km
Amarr Sentry Gun 151 km
Cargo Container 160 km
Cargo Container 176 km
Cargo Container 190 km
Cargo Container 213 km
18 Cargo containers.
I started the mission at 02:39. 1 warp and 18 dead pirates later it took about 26 minutes.
Its now 03:05 and I'm starting to pick them up using an MWD, in a battleship and 75% cap.
At 03:15 I warped back to the station to get the bonus reward slated for 03:19.
At 03:17 talked to agent and got mission bonus with 2 minutes to spare.
At 03:18 I undocked from station and warped back to a cargo container I bookmarked.
Arrived back at 03:19 and I still have 10 more cargo containers to pick up.
Its 03:27 and still have 4 more cargo containers to go.
Finally picked up all 18 containers at 03:30.
Warped back to station and started next mission at 03:32.
I wrote this post while moving between cargo containers...btw.
Mission to Mission Time difference: (03:32-02:39) 53 minutes
Time spent moving to mission location: ~5 minutes (4 jumps)
Time spent completing mission objective: ~23 minutes
Time spent picking up cargo containers: 25 minutes
So in my case it took me just a little bit longer to pick up the loot from the 18 pirates than it did for me to kill them.
I thought this would help show how much time is spent picking up loot.
When there's only 5 containers it usually takes less than 5 minutes to pick them up so the example I gave above is an extreme example.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.24 06:28:00 -
[35]
how about both a salvage drone and a scanner drone (my above idea that will go within a certain range and scan the can for u) i think all these ideas are good but my problem is ore theifs.... how about giving them a limited cargo hold (50m3 or so) so that using them really isnt that affective...)
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.24 06:28:00 -
[36]
how about both a salvage drone and a scanner drone (my above idea that will go within a certain range and scan the can for u) i think all these ideas are good but my problem is ore theifs.... how about giving them a limited cargo hold (50m3 or so) so that using them really isnt that affective...)
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Thaylor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 07:06:00 -
[37]
Exactly Dao2.
Light Salvage Drone (drone bay size 50m3, capacity 25m3)
Medium Salvage Drone (drone bay size 100m3, capacity 50m3)
Large Salvage Drone (drone bay size 250m3, capacity 125m3)
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Thaylor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 07:06:00 -
[38]
Exactly Dao2.
Light Salvage Drone (drone bay size 50m3, capacity 25m3)
Medium Salvage Drone (drone bay size 100m3, capacity 50m3)
Large Salvage Drone (drone bay size 250m3, capacity 125m3)
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.08.24 08:59:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Gungankllr on 24/08/2004 09:02:21
There are a few things that make picking up loot cans both tedious and boring. I would have to say the biggest on my list is the loot not matching the class of ship it originated from.
Many of us have killed a 500k - 750k BS only to find a rocket launcher and a civilian shield booster in the loot can.
When you're a missile using Caldari, and fight from 70-90 km, it can be pretty depressing to fly for 5-10 minutes to get to a loot can and find garbage inside.
It would be rather spiffy if there was some sort of alternate loot collection system, from a 'tractor beam' to 'salvage drones'.
I'd like to see a slotted item (like a tractor beam, we will say) that will pull an object towards you at a set strength (base level of say, 500 m/s, plus skill bonuses and any crystal mods) The unit could also act like a webber, but would work entirely on velocity. If you were using the beam on a player and he was headed AWAY from you, it would subtract from his velocity an amount equalling your skills and base 'pulling strength'.
If they were headed TOWARDS you, it would ADD to their velocity.
The other things I would like to see are salvage drones, drones able to either bring cans to you (speed of travel of can depending on amount of drones used, or size) Or empty the contents and place them into your cargo hold. The only problem with that is unless I am wrong, it would take more programming efforts to separate the loot items from the can, to place them in the cargo of a drone, to move them to you, then deposit them in your hold. It seems it would just be easier to move the entire can to you.
EDIT: FORGOT ABOUT MINING DRONES< THAT ALREADY DO THIS
Another feature that goes hand-in-hand with this is having an icon appear on different 'size' cans. (kind of like a tech 2 icon in the corner) This would tell you by locking on an object what size it was, small medium or large. That would help the folks who really want to prioritize their loot scooping as to what they want to pick up first.
I do understand that there is kind of a balance kept by players not picking up loot, there is less items in the marketplace and more demand for stuff. However, if there are players that actually go through the trouble to train skills or equip items which allow more efficient loot collection, I say by all means let them.
Nobody *really* enjoys scooping loot cans (especially in the middle of a roid field, or in a 125 m/s BS @ 95 km)
Last idea: FOF Salvage drones. You launch them, and they pick up all loot cans within range 
www.hadean.org
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.08.24 08:59:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Gungankllr on 24/08/2004 09:02:21
There are a few things that make picking up loot cans both tedious and boring. I would have to say the biggest on my list is the loot not matching the class of ship it originated from.
Many of us have killed a 500k - 750k BS only to find a rocket launcher and a civilian shield booster in the loot can.
When you're a missile using Caldari, and fight from 70-90 km, it can be pretty depressing to fly for 5-10 minutes to get to a loot can and find garbage inside.
It would be rather spiffy if there was some sort of alternate loot collection system, from a 'tractor beam' to 'salvage drones'.
I'd like to see a slotted item (like a tractor beam, we will say) that will pull an object towards you at a set strength (base level of say, 500 m/s, plus skill bonuses and any crystal mods) The unit could also act like a webber, but would work entirely on velocity. If you were using the beam on a player and he was headed AWAY from you, it would subtract from his velocity an amount equalling your skills and base 'pulling strength'.
If they were headed TOWARDS you, it would ADD to their velocity.
The other things I would like to see are salvage drones, drones able to either bring cans to you (speed of travel of can depending on amount of drones used, or size) Or empty the contents and place them into your cargo hold. The only problem with that is unless I am wrong, it would take more programming efforts to separate the loot items from the can, to place them in the cargo of a drone, to move them to you, then deposit them in your hold. It seems it would just be easier to move the entire can to you.
EDIT: FORGOT ABOUT MINING DRONES< THAT ALREADY DO THIS
Another feature that goes hand-in-hand with this is having an icon appear on different 'size' cans. (kind of like a tech 2 icon in the corner) This would tell you by locking on an object what size it was, small medium or large. That would help the folks who really want to prioritize their loot scooping as to what they want to pick up first.
I do understand that there is kind of a balance kept by players not picking up loot, there is less items in the marketplace and more demand for stuff. However, if there are players that actually go through the trouble to train skills or equip items which allow more efficient loot collection, I say by all means let them.
Nobody *really* enjoys scooping loot cans (especially in the middle of a roid field, or in a 125 m/s BS @ 95 km)
Last idea: FOF Salvage drones. You launch them, and they pick up all loot cans within range
www.hadean.org
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Tolkh
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Posted - 2004.08.24 21:16:00 -
[41]
I started playing around 2 weeks ago and I can tell you there is already a few times where I was doing missions and got anoyed at how slow it took me to go scoop the cans. I simply decided that they weren't worth looting at the end, I calculated that it was all junk and the time I was spending on this would have benefit me more elsewhere.
Traveling is quite painful for those of us who don't have the skills/ships/gear to speed up the process. I find my self spending more time surfing the web while my ship is traveling than in game. I accept that because I know I will be able to make it better soon. However since hunting is one of the only thing that make me spend more time in game than outside, it would be nice if I didn't have to painfully wait for my ship to reach the loot everytime.
Drones/tractor beam who loot for you sounds pretty good. Obviously anchored cans should be protected against that.
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Tolkh
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Posted - 2004.08.24 21:16:00 -
[42]
I started playing around 2 weeks ago and I can tell you there is already a few times where I was doing missions and got anoyed at how slow it took me to go scoop the cans. I simply decided that they weren't worth looting at the end, I calculated that it was all junk and the time I was spending on this would have benefit me more elsewhere.
Traveling is quite painful for those of us who don't have the skills/ships/gear to speed up the process. I find my self spending more time surfing the web while my ship is traveling than in game. I accept that because I know I will be able to make it better soon. However since hunting is one of the only thing that make me spend more time in game than outside, it would be nice if I didn't have to painfully wait for my ship to reach the loot everytime.
Drones/tractor beam who loot for you sounds pretty good. Obviously anchored cans should be protected against that.
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Holi
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Posted - 2004.08.25 16:06:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Holi on 25/08/2004 16:10:51
I vote for salvage drones. Why have them? Well, they are/were already available in the EVE universe according to the short story Forsaken Ruins: Quote:
ôMatuno, do you still have salvage drones onboard?ö
ôYes, deploying now.ö Mattias watched as a tiny drone began orbiting the Tempest. Salvage drones were not available anywhere within Empire space. Matuno had found this one among the wreckage of a pirate convoy that he had destroyed. For all of its risks, bounty hunting occasionally yielded some rare finds. Mega-corporations weren't the only organizations with talented engineers, and pirates were more than capable of generating their own prototype technology. ôI can't lock the object, my sensors think that it's physically part of the formation's surface. The drone might be able to make the distinction, if I can get it close enough.ö
The drone descended from the Tempest to near the formation's surface. It started flying small racetrack circles around the pinnacle area. After several orbits, it abruptly stopped and changed direction, heading directly towards the mysterious object.
ôThe drone acquired it. Stand by for extraction,ö announced Matuno. The drone came to a stop and dropped its four, tentacle-like arms onto the surface, gently drawing them around the object. The arms appeared to struggle a little bit, and then it came free amidst a plume of dust and pebbles. Within a few moments, the drone and its mysterious cargo were onboard the Tempest.
So why not make them available to wider public?
Also, like others said, it would be nice to see the contents of a cargo container from further away. Well, ok, this works atm since if you fit a cargo scanner and lock a cargo can you can scan it's contents (for up to 18km with 100% accuracy with non-named scanners) but locking on to cans is very slow atm, even in frigs. 
Edit: formatting, spelling
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Holi
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Posted - 2004.08.25 16:06:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Holi on 25/08/2004 16:10:51
I vote for salvage drones. Why have them? Well, they are/were already available in the EVE universe according to the short story Forsaken Ruins: Quote:
ôMatuno, do you still have salvage drones onboard?ö
ôYes, deploying now.ö Mattias watched as a tiny drone began orbiting the Tempest. Salvage drones were not available anywhere within Empire space. Matuno had found this one among the wreckage of a pirate convoy that he had destroyed. For all of its risks, bounty hunting occasionally yielded some rare finds. Mega-corporations weren't the only organizations with talented engineers, and pirates were more than capable of generating their own prototype technology. ôI can't lock the object, my sensors think that it's physically part of the formation's surface. The drone might be able to make the distinction, if I can get it close enough.ö
The drone descended from the Tempest to near the formation's surface. It started flying small racetrack circles around the pinnacle area. After several orbits, it abruptly stopped and changed direction, heading directly towards the mysterious object.
ôThe drone acquired it. Stand by for extraction,ö announced Matuno. The drone came to a stop and dropped its four, tentacle-like arms onto the surface, gently drawing them around the object. The arms appeared to struggle a little bit, and then it came free amidst a plume of dust and pebbles. Within a few moments, the drone and its mysterious cargo were onboard the Tempest.
So why not make them available to wider public?
Also, like others said, it would be nice to see the contents of a cargo container from further away. Well, ok, this works atm since if you fit a cargo scanner and lock a cargo can you can scan it's contents (for up to 18km with 100% accuracy with non-named scanners) but locking on to cans is very slow atm, even in frigs.
Edit: formatting, spelling
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.08.26 09:39:00 -
[45]
Anything official on if Salvage Drones can be added to the game?
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.08.26 09:39:00 -
[46]
Anything official on if Salvage Drones can be added to the game?
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Rask
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:03:00 -
[47]
Yes I agree cargo and ship scanners should not need lockon to work. just activate them get a the cross hairs, target the object, presto you get the results after the scan cycle.
This could be implmented by haveing a couple of hiten lock on slots. when you activate this module it deselects the current locked object if any, gives you the cross hairs, you pick a object to scan, it does a instant lock (storing it in the hidding slot) and does it's scan delay, displays the results and unlocks the hidden lock slot.
if salvage drones are implmented they should work in a simular way.
Locking a can is a horendus task, one thing might be to increase there signature radius by 10000, after all they have a beakon on them that should give instant lockone anyway.
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Rask
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:03:00 -
[48]
Yes I agree cargo and ship scanners should not need lockon to work. just activate them get a the cross hairs, target the object, presto you get the results after the scan cycle.
This could be implmented by haveing a couple of hiten lock on slots. when you activate this module it deselects the current locked object if any, gives you the cross hairs, you pick a object to scan, it does a instant lock (storing it in the hidding slot) and does it's scan delay, displays the results and unlocks the hidden lock slot.
if salvage drones are implmented they should work in a simular way.
Locking a can is a horendus task, one thing might be to increase there signature radius by 10000, after all they have a beakon on them that should give instant lockone anyway.
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:32:00 -
[49]
Not an issue. Spend the coding time on something more important.
yk
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:32:00 -
[50]
Not an issue. Spend the coding time on something more important.
yk
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.08.27 06:54:00 -
[51]
Currently I'm flying missions with my cruiser fitted with small weapons and 100MW AB. Not much kill potential with it, but my drones to the killing.
This is a must, since picking up the cargo cans takes way too much time. It's timewise economical to set-up the ship with weaker weapons and better speed, since the time increase in killing the enemies is way smaller than the time decrease in looting the cans.
Luckily I have now a setup of ship/modules/skills that allow me to burn the AB constantly, giving me constant speed of 900m/s.
With salvage drones (say speed comparable to acolytes) the looting process would be more enjoyable experience. Altho I would like to see that salvage drones would not loot the spawn containers, only cargo containers.
And I would like them to work automatically, with similiar way that current drones. (IE starting from 20km, and skills increasing distance 5km/level)
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.08.27 06:54:00 -
[52]
Currently I'm flying missions with my cruiser fitted with small weapons and 100MW AB. Not much kill potential with it, but my drones to the killing.
This is a must, since picking up the cargo cans takes way too much time. It's timewise economical to set-up the ship with weaker weapons and better speed, since the time increase in killing the enemies is way smaller than the time decrease in looting the cans.
Luckily I have now a setup of ship/modules/skills that allow me to burn the AB constantly, giving me constant speed of 900m/s.
With salvage drones (say speed comparable to acolytes) the looting process would be more enjoyable experience. Altho I would like to see that salvage drones would not loot the spawn containers, only cargo containers.
And I would like them to work automatically, with similiar way that current drones. (IE starting from 20km, and skills increasing distance 5km/level)
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.27 07:11:00 -
[53]
Just a point - dont make it too easy to scoop cargo.
i'm a fairly new character, and i have made most of my money via lucky finds of old battles -
eg - on a mission i fly past a gate where there is a big battle going on... on the way back i look around, see no-one at gate, and some 20 odd cans lying unattended - i go and scoop up the contents of those cans and return to base... i've dont that a few times and gathered millions of isk worth of gear.
If ppl dont want to scoop stuff if they think its not worth the time - there are others (like me) who find profit cleaning up after you :)
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.27 07:11:00 -
[54]
Just a point - dont make it too easy to scoop cargo.
i'm a fairly new character, and i have made most of my money via lucky finds of old battles -
eg - on a mission i fly past a gate where there is a big battle going on... on the way back i look around, see no-one at gate, and some 20 odd cans lying unattended - i go and scoop up the contents of those cans and return to base... i've dont that a few times and gathered millions of isk worth of gear.
If ppl dont want to scoop stuff if they think its not worth the time - there are others (like me) who find profit cleaning up after you :)
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Yakoza
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 07:35:00 -
[55]
I'm pretty sure most peopel missed what was being asked but then again I could be wrong.
By Scoop I think she means "scoop to cargo" which was an option for cargo conteiners but it was bugged at the time and later removed. "Scooping to cargo" was supposed to allow you to grab the can without grabbing the can, or grabbing what's inside without looking. I very much like to have this option reinstated if it worked properly (no indy can scoop an ejected cargo can).
As for Salvage drones I'm all for them. Make them grab one item
and make it so the player has no choice. They grab them item after all, not like they take it into themselves Linkage |
Yakoza
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 07:35:00 -
[56]
I'm pretty sure most peopel missed what was being asked but then again I could be wrong.
By Scoop I think she means "scoop to cargo" which was an option for cargo conteiners but it was bugged at the time and later removed. "Scooping to cargo" was supposed to allow you to grab the can without grabbing the can, or grabbing what's inside without looking. I very much like to have this option reinstated if it worked properly (no indy can scoop an ejected cargo can).
As for Salvage drones I'm all for them. Make them grab one item
and make it so the player has no choice. They grab them item after all, not like they take it into themselves Linkage |
TIO 101
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Posted - 2004.08.27 10:56:00 -
[57]
How about,
1)NPC's NOT droping generic loot.... so less cans will be droped from NPC's however named loot WILL be dropped so you will know its partly worth flying to the cans.
or...
2)Only the NPC group leader/last NPC to die, drops a can reflecting how hard the group of NPC's were.... a larger group drops a more fuller can with better items.
or...
3)Give drones cargo scooping capability, make them fly over colect 10.0 units of the container and bring back, scoopd to drone bay.. empty to cargo.
h4xb4n
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TIO 101
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Posted - 2004.08.27 10:56:00 -
[58]
How about,
1)NPC's NOT droping generic loot.... so less cans will be droped from NPC's however named loot WILL be dropped so you will know its partly worth flying to the cans.
or...
2)Only the NPC group leader/last NPC to die, drops a can reflecting how hard the group of NPC's were.... a larger group drops a more fuller can with better items.
or...
3)Give drones cargo scooping capability, make them fly over colect 10.0 units of the container and bring back, scoopd to drone bay.. empty to cargo.
h4xb4n
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.08.28 13:34:00 -
[59]
Allow a new module call "Cargo Manager"
This will automatically grab items from cargo containers near you and add it to your cargo bay.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.08.28 13:34:00 -
[60]
Allow a new module call "Cargo Manager"
This will automatically grab items from cargo containers near you and add it to your cargo bay.
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.08.28 14:58:00 -
[61]
Loot is something few games to well and sofar none do right.
Eve does it wrong imo. I would rather gut the innards of a blasted ship than pop some magic can of holding. But since that is unlikely, the second best solution would be the add shuttle bays to all ships (not everyone has drone bays).
And you can remote pilot the shuttle (not like the shuttles we have) since it would be manned by part of your 'crew'.
Don't make it something you need to buy though, its just a recovery mission, not a real salvage.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.08.28 14:58:00 -
[62]
Loot is something few games to well and sofar none do right.
Eve does it wrong imo. I would rather gut the innards of a blasted ship than pop some magic can of holding. But since that is unlikely, the second best solution would be the add shuttle bays to all ships (not everyone has drone bays).
And you can remote pilot the shuttle (not like the shuttles we have) since it would be manned by part of your 'crew'.
Don't make it something you need to buy though, its just a recovery mission, not a real salvage.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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Arte
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Posted - 2004.08.29 14:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: ActiveX
Loot is something few games to well and sofar none do right.
Eve does it wrong imo. I would rather gut the innards of a blasted ship than pop some magic can of holding. But since that is unlikely, the second best solution would be the add shuttle bays to all ships (not everyone has drone bays).
And you can remote pilot the shuttle (not like the shuttles we have) since it would be manned by part of your 'crew'.
Don't make it something you need to buy though, its just a recovery mission, not a real salvage.
Interesting idea
Variation on the pod perhaps. But what would speed/capacity be?
Variation on a shuttle perhaps? But what size?
Piloted how.. remotely by third person view, from mother ship by guestimate, or automatically by locking can and sending it in?? (aka a drone )
Could they fit on a frig or would it be limited to cruiser and up
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Arte
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Posted - 2004.08.29 14:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: ActiveX
Loot is something few games to well and sofar none do right.
Eve does it wrong imo. I would rather gut the innards of a blasted ship than pop some magic can of holding. But since that is unlikely, the second best solution would be the add shuttle bays to all ships (not everyone has drone bays).
And you can remote pilot the shuttle (not like the shuttles we have) since it would be manned by part of your 'crew'.
Don't make it something you need to buy though, its just a recovery mission, not a real salvage.
Interesting idea
Variation on the pod perhaps. But what would speed/capacity be?
Variation on a shuttle perhaps? But what size?
Piloted how.. remotely by third person view, from mother ship by guestimate, or automatically by locking can and sending it in?? (aka a drone )
Could they fit on a frig or would it be limited to cruiser and up
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.08.29 20:25:00 -
[65]
Well Frigates wouldn't really need them, even without mwd.
I would say give them about 750 m/s base speed, since they aren't technically 'manned'. As for cargo, 50 m3 should be enough.
Don't make them warp capable though.
It's just an idea and might be too hard to implement in any useful state.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.08.29 20:25:00 -
[66]
Well Frigates wouldn't really need them, even without mwd.
I would say give them about 750 m/s base speed, since they aren't technically 'manned'. As for cargo, 50 m3 should be enough.
Don't make them warp capable though.
It's just an idea and might be too hard to implement in any useful state.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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Ephemeron
|
Posted - 2004.08.30 18:50:00 -
[67]
My solution: a new module!
Small Intensity Tractor Beam
High slot
range - 15 km with skill to increase range
effect: transfers 10 m3 per second. Items are randomly selected for transfer. If an item is more than 10 m3, then it simply takes a little more than 1 second for it to get loaded.
Have low power and cpu fitting, it's bad enough to waste high slot. Note that limiting transfer to 10 m3 per second makes it bad for ore stealing, but good for loot gathering.
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2004.08.30 18:50:00 -
[68]
My solution: a new module!
Small Intensity Tractor Beam
High slot
range - 15 km with skill to increase range
effect: transfers 10 m3 per second. Items are randomly selected for transfer. If an item is more than 10 m3, then it simply takes a little more than 1 second for it to get loaded.
Have low power and cpu fitting, it's bad enough to waste high slot. Note that limiting transfer to 10 m3 per second makes it bad for ore stealing, but good for loot gathering.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.08.31 03:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ephemeron
My solution: a new module!
Small Intensity Tractor Beam
High slot
range - 15 km with skill to increase range
effect: transfers 10 m3 per second. Items are randomly selected for transfer. If an item is more than 10 m3, then it simply takes a little more than 1 second for it to get loaded.
Have low power and cpu fitting, it's bad enough to waste high slot. Note that limiting transfer to 10 m3 per second makes it bad for ore stealing, but good for loot gathering.
I don't think I would sacrifice a high level slot for a loot gather. That's why I was suggesting a drone to do what you're suggesting. Although if I did have an extra slot I would install this module instead of a Smartbomb!!!
I like it.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.08.31 03:22:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ephemeron
My solution: a new module!
Small Intensity Tractor Beam
High slot
range - 15 km with skill to increase range
effect: transfers 10 m3 per second. Items are randomly selected for transfer. If an item is more than 10 m3, then it simply takes a little more than 1 second for it to get loaded.
Have low power and cpu fitting, it's bad enough to waste high slot. Note that limiting transfer to 10 m3 per second makes it bad for ore stealing, but good for loot gathering.
I don't think I would sacrifice a high level slot for a loot gather. That's why I was suggesting a drone to do what you're suggesting. Although if I did have an extra slot I would install this module instead of a Smartbomb!!!
I like it.
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Vawzi
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Posted - 2004.08.31 05:28:00 -
[71]
Howbout this, instead of having to move to a can, open it, and then drag everything remove the step of opening the can and just put in a "collect all" option. Maybe even have this option work like docking where u can select it and have your ship move to the can for you.
---------------------------------------
mmmmm Tim Hortons :) Why yes I am Canadian, how did you ever guess? |
Vawzi
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Posted - 2004.08.31 05:28:00 -
[72]
Howbout this, instead of having to move to a can, open it, and then drag everything remove the step of opening the can and just put in a "collect all" option. Maybe even have this option work like docking where u can select it and have your ship move to the can for you.
---------------------------------------
mmmmm Tim Hortons :) Why yes I am Canadian, how did you ever guess? |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.08.31 11:21:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Note that limiting transfer to 10 m3 per second makes it bad for ore stealing
Note that shiva is bad for ore stealing (criminal flagging).
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.08.31 11:21:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Note that limiting transfer to 10 m3 per second makes it bad for ore stealing
Note that shiva is bad for ore stealing (criminal flagging).
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
odin hammer
|
Posted - 2004.08.31 11:37:00 -
[75]
In short i think having a bs fitted with special
high slot modules Such as a grabber would extent
the distance u can scoop up from the can say
+3km
another idea is to have a Secure cargo can with
6000-10000 space which could be transported with
a battleship to be able to attach the cargo can to
the bs it needs to be fitted with a highslot
module like a xtra bay or a trailer thing that would
have a penalty of loosing alot of turret slots or
launcher slots or both
people play alone alot which makes protecting and
hauling a big deal 
Respectfull Mermaid of Curse Alliance |
odin hammer
|
Posted - 2004.08.31 11:37:00 -
[76]
In short i think having a bs fitted with special
high slot modules Such as a grabber would extent
the distance u can scoop up from the can say
+3km
another idea is to have a Secure cargo can with
6000-10000 space which could be transported with
a battleship to be able to attach the cargo can to
the bs it needs to be fitted with a highslot
module like a xtra bay or a trailer thing that would
have a penalty of loosing alot of turret slots or
launcher slots or both
people play alone alot which makes protecting and
hauling a big deal
Respectfull Mermaid of Curse Alliance |
Zaldiri
|
Posted - 2004.08.31 18:05:00 -
[77]
Originally by: YuuKnow
Not an issue. Spend the coding time on something more important.
yk
Yep not an issue at all if you just sit at 1.5km and blast everything with your neutron blaster cannons. For the rest of the population it a different matter. God, one day everyone would be capable of seeing other peoples point of view
Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA |
Zaldiri
|
Posted - 2004.08.31 18:05:00 -
[78]
Originally by: YuuKnow
Not an issue. Spend the coding time on something more important.
yk
Yep not an issue at all if you just sit at 1.5km and blast everything with your neutron blaster cannons. For the rest of the population it a different matter. God, one day everyone would be capable of seeing other peoples point of view
Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA |
Thraxll
|
Posted - 2004.09.01 13:39:00 -
[79]
Originally by: YuuKnow
Not an issue. Spend the coding time on something more important.
yk
What could be more important in a GAME than the FUN factor?
I second the idea of implementing some kind of cargo-scooping option. It's just plain boring (and hence, NOT FUN) to spend 30 minutes collecting cans after spending only 10-15 minutes actually doing the killing.
"The long and short of it is that this game, or any game, is either going to be a kindergarten where it's safe and cuddly and secure and you can play with plush tigers, or it will be a harsh place, harsh but interesting and interesting because harsh, where you must take risks to succeed and so must everyone, since victory is tasteless without danger." - Raivn Akhama
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Thraxll
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Posted - 2004.09.01 13:39:00 -
[80]
Originally by: YuuKnow
Not an issue. Spend the coding time on something more important.
yk
What could be more important in a GAME than the FUN factor?
I second the idea of implementing some kind of cargo-scooping option. It's just plain boring (and hence, NOT FUN) to spend 30 minutes collecting cans after spending only 10-15 minutes actually doing the killing.
"The long and short of it is that this game, or any game, is either going to be a kindergarten where it's safe and cuddly and secure and you can play with plush tigers, or it will be a harsh place, harsh but interesting and interesting because harsh, where you must take risks to succeed and so must everyone, since victory is tasteless without danger." - Raivn Akhama
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.03 01:02:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Selim on 03/09/2004 01:06:51
salvage drone = win
each one able to hold just enough so it can hold one unit of the biggest thing (like battleship guns and such). Whats that, 60m3 or so, right? Goes 2km/s, no offensive power.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.03 01:02:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Selim on 03/09/2004 01:06:51
salvage drone = win
each one able to hold just enough so it can hold one unit of the biggest thing (like battleship guns and such). Whats that, 60m3 or so, right? Goes 2km/s, no offensive power.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.03 03:02:00 -
[83]
I still think there should be a skill to increase the 1500m range they have now.
Maybe:
Cargo Management
+20% to maximum range to pick-up cargo per level
Prerequisite: None
Primary Stat: Perception
Secondary Stat: Intelligence
Skill Multiplier: x1
Therefore at level 5 it'll be a +100% range bonus, or a 3,000m range.
So many times I fly-by a cargo container and can't pick up the loot because I'm at 1,600m and have to turn around with my battleship...which can take upwards of 30 seconds before I'm back in range.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.03 03:02:00 -
[84]
I still think there should be a skill to increase the 1500m range they have now.
Maybe:
Cargo Management
+20% to maximum range to pick-up cargo per level
Prerequisite: None
Primary Stat: Perception
Secondary Stat: Intelligence
Skill Multiplier: x1
Therefore at level 5 it'll be a +100% range bonus, or a 3,000m range.
So many times I fly-by a cargo container and can't pick up the loot because I'm at 1,600m and have to turn around with my battleship...which can take upwards of 30 seconds before I'm back in range.
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Hanns
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Posted - 2004.09.03 03:41:00 -
[85]
Just make a Salvage skill, extra say 2km range per level so at lvl 5 u can open a can thats 11.5km away
Work on the figures, but its juts an idea,
Also have Salvage Drones operation, +10m3 to drones cargo capacity per level? with drones base cargo of 10 per drone?
Another idea
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Hanns
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Posted - 2004.09.03 03:41:00 -
[86]
Just make a Salvage skill, extra say 2km range per level so at lvl 5 u can open a can thats 11.5km away
Work on the figures, but its juts an idea,
Also have Salvage Drones operation, +10m3 to drones cargo capacity per level? with drones base cargo of 10 per drone?
Another idea
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Crazy Dave
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Posted - 2004.09.03 22:36:00 -
[87]
going to get stranded cargo cans ( especially if there is a lot of them) is kinda reminescent of an old child hood book activity called connect the dots. More like connect the diamonds though.  I would really like to see a new drone that can hold or pull maybe up to 2 or 3 cans at a time of maybe a tractor beam device that can pull a single can to the ship. this would be nice because when you go after the ones that are real close to the belts you tend to get stuck on the asteroids which is a real pain unless ur in a small frigate. either way the characters would have to learn a new skill container drone retrieval or if you go the other way, engineering lvl 3 or 4 and tractor beam lvl 1 thru 5 which could be used to determine the range of the beams effectivness and / or the size of the object your after up to a small asteroid (like a jaspet or omberoid). could even be used in combat or rescuing a ship from the event horrizon of a black hole. or even towing a disabled ship to a station.
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Crazy Dave
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Posted - 2004.09.03 22:36:00 -
[88]
going to get stranded cargo cans ( especially if there is a lot of them) is kinda reminescent of an old child hood book activity called connect the dots. More like connect the diamonds though. I would really like to see a new drone that can hold or pull maybe up to 2 or 3 cans at a time of maybe a tractor beam device that can pull a single can to the ship. this would be nice because when you go after the ones that are real close to the belts you tend to get stuck on the asteroids which is a real pain unless ur in a small frigate. either way the characters would have to learn a new skill container drone retrieval or if you go the other way, engineering lvl 3 or 4 and tractor beam lvl 1 thru 5 which could be used to determine the range of the beams effectivness and / or the size of the object your after up to a small asteroid (like a jaspet or omberoid). could even be used in combat or rescuing a ship from the event horrizon of a black hole. or even towing a disabled ship to a station.
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mfdsuk
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Posted - 2004.09.05 11:57:00 -
[89]
why dont you use cargo scaner's thats what i do... if you get a good one you can scan some thing 20km away. but it would still be nice to see a drone that can do the job for me.
________________________________________________
http://www.freewebs.com/legionnaires_of_freedom |
mfdsuk
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Posted - 2004.09.05 11:57:00 -
[90]
why dont you use cargo scaner's thats what i do... if you get a good one you can scan some thing 20km away. but it would still be nice to see a drone that can do the job for me.
________________________________________________
http://www.freewebs.com/legionnaires_of_freedom |
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:59:00 -
[91]
Its sad using a Cargo Scanner just so you can NOT bother to pick up loot.
I still pick up the loot because it can be refined - every little bit helps.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:59:00 -
[92]
Its sad using a Cargo Scanner just so you can NOT bother to pick up loot.
I still pick up the loot because it can be refined - every little bit helps.
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Disco Maniac
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 10:06:00 -
[93]
Well, I agree we need something; It's interesting in this mmorph as I have only played four weeks that the devs would want us to explain why and what we need in the game... Fun is what we need and it's not when u kick in the ab because your 12k away froma container, then trying to shut the thing down at about 5k, then figurin the corect oh 3k to "open container" **** hit it too soon... damn now to aproach again. I find this process horrific oh and if theres any lag ur not gettin that sucka open less ur doing like 150m/s. Now I'm not going to try and spout some sort of technical bs about what kinda tracktor beam or drone we need; but we need something... And all these posts seams to say the same thing. Eve's a pretty kick ass game but the loot gathering is the worst i've seen. Who got the reg bag?
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Disco Maniac
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Posted - 2004.09.07 10:06:00 -
[94]
Well, I agree we need something; It's interesting in this mmorph as I have only played four weeks that the devs would want us to explain why and what we need in the game... Fun is what we need and it's not when u kick in the ab because your 12k away froma container, then trying to shut the thing down at about 5k, then figurin the corect oh 3k to "open container" **** hit it too soon... damn now to aproach again. I find this process horrific oh and if theres any lag ur not gettin that sucka open less ur doing like 150m/s. Now I'm not going to try and spout some sort of technical bs about what kinda tracktor beam or drone we need; but we need something... And all these posts seams to say the same thing. Eve's a pretty kick ass game but the loot gathering is the worst i've seen. Who got the reg bag?
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.09.07 10:33:00 -
[95]
We need autopickup option from Hack/Nethack. If you get within 1500m of cargo can, it will be automatically scooped if you have autopickup set.
Then make jettison command to jettison the cargo can atleast 2km away.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Steven Dynahir
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 10:33:00 -
[96]
We need autopickup option from Hack/Nethack. If you get within 1500m of cargo can, it will be automatically scooped if you have autopickup set.
Then make jettison command to jettison the cargo can atleast 2km away.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 22:19:00 -
[97]
What is Hack/Nethack? Is that some kind of modification to client?
Isn't that against the EULA?
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 22:19:00 -
[98]
What is Hack/Nethack? Is that some kind of modification to client?
Isn't that against the EULA?
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TAKI OKAWA
|
Posted - 2004.09.08 12:25:00 -
[99]
Its funny actually, the kind of technology EVE has and still when it comes to collecting cargo i have to pick it up one by one. Seriously when i first started playing eve i was hoping some kind of beams, transport devices or salvage drones to scoop cargo but i was quite surprised and now you guys at ISD tell us that we need to impress you for this new feature??
Why do you want us to beg and make long threads about it?? when this is something which you could have added on your own? this is so common sense isn't it?
==================================================
Its not the size of dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog which matters
================================================== |
TAKI OKAWA
|
Posted - 2004.09.08 12:25:00 -
[100]
Its funny actually, the kind of technology EVE has and still when it comes to collecting cargo i have to pick it up one by one. Seriously when i first started playing eve i was hoping some kind of beams, transport devices or salvage drones to scoop cargo but i was quite surprised and now you guys at ISD tell us that we need to impress you for this new feature??
Why do you want us to beg and make long threads about it?? when this is something which you could have added on your own? this is so common sense isn't it?
==================================================
Its not the size of dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog which matters
================================================== |
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:33:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Steven Dynahir on 09/09/2004 09:35:26
Edited by: Steven Dynahir on 09/09/2004 09:35:03
Quote:
What is Hack/Nethack? Is that some kind of modification to client?
n00b.
http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/rgrn-FAQ.txt
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Steven Dynahir
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 09:33:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Steven Dynahir on 09/09/2004 09:35:26
Edited by: Steven Dynahir on 09/09/2004 09:35:03
Quote:
What is Hack/Nethack? Is that some kind of modification to client?
n00b.
http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/rgrn-FAQ.txt
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Claire Scott
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 11:29:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Claire Scott on 09/09/2004 11:31:29
Bleah. Put better loot in the cans and I won't mind.
Salvage drones are the simple answer.
-E
If you're not running with the pack, you're prey . . . |
Claire Scott
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 11:29:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Claire Scott on 09/09/2004 11:31:29
Bleah. Put better loot in the cans and I won't mind.
Salvage drones are the simple answer.
-E
If you're not running with the pack, you're prey . . . |
spiritfa11
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:37:00 -
[105]
I like the salvage drone idea.
Give them a Salvage Drone Operation Skill with a +5 or 10 km bonus to range per level.
But instead letting them have a cargo volume why not just make them only have the ability to carry one unit of any item in the container. that would destroy any ore theifs incentive to use them.
there are problems when you start finding ammo in the containers but hey i never said this idea was perfect.
---------------------
I'd like to do your sig. You may contact me in-game |
spiritfa11
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:37:00 -
[106]
I like the salvage drone idea.
Give them a Salvage Drone Operation Skill with a +5 or 10 km bonus to range per level.
But instead letting them have a cargo volume why not just make them only have the ability to carry one unit of any item in the container. that would destroy any ore theifs incentive to use them.
there are problems when you start finding ammo in the containers but hey i never said this idea was perfect.
---------------------
I'd like to do your sig. You may contact me in-game |
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 20:06:00 -
[107]
10m3 would be fine...anything larger (like a drone) would have to be picked up manually. Just give a message like:
"Items in cargo container are too large for your drone to carry."
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.09 20:06:00 -
[108]
10m3 would be fine...anything larger (like a drone) would have to be picked up manually. Just give a message like:
"Items in cargo container are too large for your drone to carry."
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spiritfa11
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:04:00 -
[109]
well either way... whether they give them 10m3 of cargo space or just allow them to carry 1 item no matter the m3 something needs to be done.
hell even if we have to target the containers.. 30 seconds of waiting beats almost 30 minutes of flying.
i just hope the drones not only mwd to their target containers but back to your ship! 
---------------------
I'd like to do your sig. You may contact me in-game |
spiritfa11
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 21:04:00 -
[110]
well either way... whether they give them 10m3 of cargo space or just allow them to carry 1 item no matter the m3 something needs to be done.
hell even if we have to target the containers.. 30 seconds of waiting beats almost 30 minutes of flying.
i just hope the drones not only mwd to their target containers but back to your ship!
---------------------
I'd like to do your sig. You may contact me in-game |
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:23:00 -
[111]
Originally by: spiritfa11
well either way... whether they give them 10m3 of cargo space or just allow them to carry 1 item no matter the m3 something needs to be done.
hell even if we have to target the containers.. 30 seconds of waiting beats almost 30 minutes of flying.
i just hope the drones not only mwd to their target containers but back to your ship!
Good point...if these salvage drones don't move at least 500m/s what's the point?
Maybe the drones would have built-in cargo containers so they could hold more for their size and have enough space for something to make them fast?
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:23:00 -
[112]
Originally by: spiritfa11
well either way... whether they give them 10m3 of cargo space or just allow them to carry 1 item no matter the m3 something needs to be done.
hell even if we have to target the containers.. 30 seconds of waiting beats almost 30 minutes of flying.
i just hope the drones not only mwd to their target containers but back to your ship!
Good point...if these salvage drones don't move at least 500m/s what's the point?
Maybe the drones would have built-in cargo containers so they could hold more for their size and have enough space for something to make them fast?
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RedClaws
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 00:04:00 -
[113]
Well I like a few of the ideas here but lets combine a few :
Small, medium and large salvage drones.
Small takes up 50m¦ and can carry 5m¦ (Requires Drones skill)
Medium takes up 100m¦ and can carry 10M¦
Large takes up 250M¦ and can carry 25m¦ (Requires heavy drone operation)
All salvage drones simply count to the number of drones you are able to control.
Speed : Play around with these numbers for a bit but ofcourse a large should go slower than a small. Minimum being 300m/s ( include MWD?)
Getting the loot without targetting : must be a way to do this or enlarge the cans sig radius. (No point in taking 30+- secs to lock a can)
Now for a skill for the salvage drones : I suggest a speed increase of 10 to 20 percent per level.
Seeing as a lot of the players agree I think we can expect some kind of salvage drone in the near future :D
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RedClaws
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Posted - 2004.09.10 00:04:00 -
[114]
Well I like a few of the ideas here but lets combine a few :
Small, medium and large salvage drones.
Small takes up 50m¦ and can carry 5m¦ (Requires Drones skill)
Medium takes up 100m¦ and can carry 10M¦
Large takes up 250M¦ and can carry 25m¦ (Requires heavy drone operation)
All salvage drones simply count to the number of drones you are able to control.
Speed : Play around with these numbers for a bit but ofcourse a large should go slower than a small. Minimum being 300m/s ( include MWD?)
Getting the loot without targetting : must be a way to do this or enlarge the cans sig radius. (No point in taking 30+- secs to lock a can)
Now for a skill for the salvage drones : I suggest a speed increase of 10 to 20 percent per level.
Seeing as a lot of the players agree I think we can expect some kind of salvage drone in the near future :D
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.10 01:17:00 -
[115]
Originally by: RedClaws
Seeing as a lot of the players agree I think we can expect some kind of salvage drone in the near future :D
Soon(tm)...
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.10 01:17:00 -
[116]
Originally by: RedClaws
Seeing as a lot of the players agree I think we can expect some kind of salvage drone in the near future :D
Soon(tm)...
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Thnikkaman
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 13:23:00 -
[117]
Not gonna go thru all the posts, so not sure if this has been said (it prolly hasnt, im kind of crazy). Anywho how about a tactor beam? Each level allows you to grab from further away, not made up my mind wether it should be a Hislot, or just built onto your ship. If its built on your ship, i reckon it would be a case of 'Right-Click > Beam aboard scotty'...or beam closer rather 
Think you know how to use Hislot things, so no need to explain that case. If anything, it would look cool!
_____________________________________________/
*Here comes the Thnikkaman!*
Yeah! Shut up kid! |
Thnikkaman
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 13:23:00 -
[118]
Not gonna go thru all the posts, so not sure if this has been said (it prolly hasnt, im kind of crazy). Anywho how about a tactor beam? Each level allows you to grab from further away, not made up my mind wether it should be a Hislot, or just built onto your ship. If its built on your ship, i reckon it would be a case of 'Right-Click > Beam aboard scotty'...or beam closer rather
Think you know how to use Hislot things, so no need to explain that case. If anything, it would look cool!
_____________________________________________/
*Here comes the Thnikkaman!*
Yeah! Shut up kid! |
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 15:36:00 -
[119]
Its been several weeks now that we have collected posts from people.
Could we get an official response to some of the ideas here? OR what CCP would consider doing? OR what CCP would NOT do under any circumstances? OR what is technically not posssible or too difficult?
I know Shiva is #1 priority, but it would be nice to hear some feedback from our feedback.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.11 15:36:00 -
[120]
Its been several weeks now that we have collected posts from people.
Could we get an official response to some of the ideas here? OR what CCP would consider doing? OR what CCP would NOT do under any circumstances? OR what is technically not posssible or too difficult?
I know Shiva is #1 priority, but it would be nice to hear some feedback from our feedback.
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 17:02:00 -
[121]
Edited by: S'Daria on 11/09/2004 17:07:33
Here's my attempt to summarize everything suggested/said so far:
Complaints:
- Picking up Cargo is a time sink, faster cargo pickup would make the game more enjoyable
- Picking up loot takes longer than kill the rats, not fun
- Picking up loot from asteroid fields is tricky, hard to manuever in some ships
- Picking up loot without an MWD can take 10+ minutes for long range combat types
- Default range of 1.5km for looking in a cargo is too short
- Don't like the idea of having to put a MWD because its a mid-slot and shield/cap hit
- Battleship with MWD is very limiting
- Increasing intervals between rat spawn to give time to pickup loot would not be enjoyable
- Picking up loot over a 200-square km area takes alot of time
- Picking up loot is tidious and boring
- Its annoying to pick up cargo, especially when its useless stuff or when there are alot of rats
- Don't spend time coding to fix this problem
- Don't make picking up cargo too easy
- Any high-slot solution will probably never be used
- Its not fun to pickup cargo, its like playing connect the dots intead you have diamonds on your screen
- Spending 30 minutes picking up loot after 10 minutes of fighting is not fun
- Funny how advanced the world of EVE is and there's no technology to pickup cargo
- Don't have us beg for this new feature
Recommended Drone types:
- Salvage drones - drones that pick up cargo and drop into cargobay like what Mining Drones do with Ore
- Cargo drones - drones that drag the cargo container towards you
- Cargo Scanner drone - would move closer and provide cargo scan info
- Tractor beams - slotted item that pulls cargo cans towards you
Recommended for slotted items:
- Cargo Transporters - teleports cargo into the ship's hold
- Increase the range of Cargo scanners
- Add a new module called "Cargo Manager" which would pick up loot automatically
Skill Recommendations:
- Add a skill called Cargo Management that would increase the default 1.5km range of pickup/view
- Add a skill called Cargo Management that would increase the range to to pick up by +20%/level (upto 100%, maximum 3km instead of 1.5km)
- Add a skill called Salvage that would increase at 2km per level (maximum at 11.5km)
General recommendations:
- After you kill a target, keep the target to the container
- Add an icon on the cargo window to 'Scoop to Cargo' when opening a can
- When you double click on a container it auto loads into your cargo
- Increase range of pickup/view to 3km to 5km
- Allow mining drones to pick up cargo (since they already pick up ore)
- Drop loot into 1 container, especially for missions
- Forsaken Ruins story already refers to them
- Add the option "Scoop to Cargo" on a cargo can
- Have NPC only drop named loot, otherwise no loot at all
- Have autopickup like Hack/NetHack
- Add an option to automatically pickup loot within 1.5km of a container
- Allow people to install a shuttle that they can remotely pilot to pickup cargo (especially in Battleships)
Salvage drones suggestions:
- Small drone, (600 m/s, drone size: 50m3, cargo size: 10-25m3)
- Medium drone, (450 m/s, drone size: 100m3, cargo size: 25-50m3)
- Large drone, (300 m/s, drone size: 250m3, cargo size: 100-125m3)
- Positive: Ore thieves couldn't use since industrialials don't have drones
- Range needs to be at least 40-50km
- Negative: Industrials could not take advantage of this since they don't have drone bays
- Add skill called Salvage Drone Operation that increases range/speed/or cargo size of drones
- If items can't be picked up by drone, a message pops up
- Drone makes several trips back and forth until cargo is transfered
- A FOF Salvage drone, picks up loot without having to target (Battleships can take upwards of a minute to target a can)
- Don't require that ship have a lock to pick up cargo
- Have these drones have built-in cargo containers so they can hold more than their size allows (whatever that expando technology is called)
Tractor Beams suggestions:
- Moves a cargo container towards you at 50-100 m/s (no target required)
- OR moves cargo container towards you at 500 m/s (can use crystals to modify range/speed)
- Upto 10 cans can be 'pulled' towards you at a time
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Small Intensity Tractor Beam: High slot, transfer 10m3/sec at 15km range
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: Would be used by ore thieves
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
Transfer Beam suggestions:
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 17:02:00 -
[122]
Edited by: S'Daria on 11/09/2004 17:07:33
Here's my attempt to summarize everything suggested/said so far:
Complaints:
- Picking up Cargo is a time sink, faster cargo pickup would make the game more enjoyable
- Picking up loot takes longer than kill the rats, not fun
- Picking up loot from asteroid fields is tricky, hard to manuever in some ships
- Picking up loot without an MWD can take 10+ minutes for long range combat types
- Default range of 1.5km for looking in a cargo is too short
- Don't like the idea of having to put a MWD because its a mid-slot and shield/cap hit
- Battleship with MWD is very limiting
- Increasing intervals between rat spawn to give time to pickup loot would not be enjoyable
- Picking up loot over a 200-square km area takes alot of time
- Picking up loot is tidious and boring
- Its annoying to pick up cargo, especially when its useless stuff or when there are alot of rats
- Don't spend time coding to fix this problem
- Don't make picking up cargo too easy
- Any high-slot solution will probably never be used
- Its not fun to pickup cargo, its like playing connect the dots intead you have diamonds on your screen
- Spending 30 minutes picking up loot after 10 minutes of fighting is not fun
- Funny how advanced the world of EVE is and there's no technology to pickup cargo
- Don't have us beg for this new feature
Recommended Drone types:
- Salvage drones - drones that pick up cargo and drop into cargobay like what Mining Drones do with Ore
- Cargo drones - drones that drag the cargo container towards you
- Cargo Scanner drone - would move closer and provide cargo scan info
- Tractor beams - slotted item that pulls cargo cans towards you
Recommended for slotted items:
- Cargo Transporters - teleports cargo into the ship's hold
- Increase the range of Cargo scanners
- Add a new module called "Cargo Manager" which would pick up loot automatically
Skill Recommendations:
- Add a skill called Cargo Management that would increase the default 1.5km range of pickup/view
- Add a skill called Cargo Management that would increase the range to to pick up by +20%/level (upto 100%, maximum 3km instead of 1.5km)
- Add a skill called Salvage that would increase at 2km per level (maximum at 11.5km)
General recommendations:
- After you kill a target, keep the target to the container
- Add an icon on the cargo window to 'Scoop to Cargo' when opening a can
- When you double click on a container it auto loads into your cargo
- Increase range of pickup/view to 3km to 5km
- Allow mining drones to pick up cargo (since they already pick up ore)
- Drop loot into 1 container, especially for missions
- Forsaken Ruins story already refers to them
- Add the option "Scoop to Cargo" on a cargo can
- Have NPC only drop named loot, otherwise no loot at all
- Have autopickup like Hack/NetHack
- Add an option to automatically pickup loot within 1.5km of a container
- Allow people to install a shuttle that they can remotely pilot to pickup cargo (especially in Battleships)
Salvage drones suggestions:
- Small drone, (600 m/s, drone size: 50m3, cargo size: 10-25m3)
- Medium drone, (450 m/s, drone size: 100m3, cargo size: 25-50m3)
- Large drone, (300 m/s, drone size: 250m3, cargo size: 100-125m3)
- Positive: Ore thieves couldn't use since industrialials don't have drones
- Range needs to be at least 40-50km
- Negative: Industrials could not take advantage of this since they don't have drone bays
- Add skill called Salvage Drone Operation that increases range/speed/or cargo size of drones
- If items can't be picked up by drone, a message pops up
- Drone makes several trips back and forth until cargo is transfered
- A FOF Salvage drone, picks up loot without having to target (Battleships can take upwards of a minute to target a can)
- Don't require that ship have a lock to pick up cargo
- Have these drones have built-in cargo containers so they can hold more than their size allows (whatever that expando technology is called)
Tractor Beams suggestions:
- Moves a cargo container towards you at 50-100 m/s (no target required)
- OR moves cargo container towards you at 500 m/s (can use crystals to modify range/speed)
- Upto 10 cans can be 'pulled' towards you at a time
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Small Intensity Tractor Beam: High slot, transfer 10m3/sec at 15km range
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: Would be used by ore thieves
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
Transfer Beam suggestions:
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
|
Tindel
|
Posted - 2004.09.12 18:43:00 -
[123]
those are some very good suggestions
Y helo thar
|
Tindel
|
Posted - 2004.09.12 18:43:00 -
[124]
those are some very good suggestions
Y helo thar
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.12 20:54:00 -
[125]
I agree.
I didn't try to reinterpret anyone's suggestion, I just tried to summarize it for someone who doesn't necessarily want to take the time to read 3 pages of thread.
I would really like to get an official responce from CCP or someone on the ISD staff saying something here.
Even if its, "We'll looking at implementing XYZ after shiva," or "We would never implement ABC, but would consider doing DEF," that'll be fine.
Just something. I would like a discussion because I'm sure the people who come into this particular section of the forums are trying to make the game better and more enjoyable...and doing that will make CCP more money.
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.12 20:54:00 -
[126]
I agree.
I didn't try to reinterpret anyone's suggestion, I just tried to summarize it for someone who doesn't necessarily want to take the time to read 3 pages of thread.
I would really like to get an official responce from CCP or someone on the ISD staff saying something here.
Even if its, "We'll looking at implementing XYZ after shiva," or "We would never implement ABC, but would consider doing DEF," that'll be fine.
Just something. I would like a discussion because I'm sure the people who come into this particular section of the forums are trying to make the game better and more enjoyable...and doing that will make CCP more money.
|
Zibun Ionic
|
Posted - 2004.09.15 10:16:00 -
[127]
Didn't bother to read through whole thread but I would suggest some module to scooping stuff, say, from 10000m? It would be a midslot module and requires activation.
forgive our sins that we are about to commit |
Zibun Ionic
|
Posted - 2004.09.15 10:16:00 -
[128]
Didn't bother to read through whole thread but I would suggest some module to scooping stuff, say, from 10000m? It would be a midslot module and requires activation.
forgive our sins that we are about to commit |
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.15 16:04:00 -
[129]
People have suggested a Tractor Beams that move the container closer to you and Transfer Beams that actually teleport the cargo at a rate of say 10m3/sec into your cargohold.
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.15 16:04:00 -
[130]
People have suggested a Tractor Beams that move the container closer to you and Transfer Beams that actually teleport the cargo at a rate of say 10m3/sec into your cargohold.
|
|
|
Zibun Ionic
|
Posted - 2004.09.16 06:42:00 -
[131]
If it's so obvious.. Get it done CCP
forgive our sins that we are about to commit |
Zibun Ionic
|
Posted - 2004.09.16 06:42:00 -
[132]
If it's so obvious.. Get it done CCP
forgive our sins that we are about to commit |
Rufus Kex
|
Posted - 2004.09.16 13:46:00 -
[133]
While we're at it. How about a transport array thingie mounted on a highslot. Or wait, even better, make it something that all ships have in their ship UI (beside the cargo/drone/autopilot buttons), as this is a function that all ships (even shuttles) should be able to use. This new component in your ship would automatically transport every jetcan you have locked directly to your hangar in the nearest (or pre-specified) base. Or why even bother with locking? Just take every single one that you can see in your scanner/grid!
This would make looting so much more effective and the game so much more fun! You wouldn't have to travel so many unnecessary kilometers in space, and use your time for much better, and most of all, lucrative purposes.
If we elaborate, this gizmo could even get more functions, like automatically refining the loot at the base, so you don't need to spend time on that either. Also, in the future, maybe this thing could evolve to an AI Co-ship-controlling device that would automatically warp around to belts and lock down and shoot npcs. Think of the time and efforts it would save!!!
Seriously,
If you want the cans, go get them.
If you thin you're too slow, equip a mwd.
If you don't want the mwd penalties on your ship, rethink.
Now, if you don't want to spend your time on looting cans, just let someone else take them.
The original post had a great idea though. Scoop can directly, instead of the open-select all-dragging procedure.
|
Rufus Kex
|
Posted - 2004.09.16 13:46:00 -
[134]
While we're at it. How about a transport array thingie mounted on a highslot. Or wait, even better, make it something that all ships have in their ship UI (beside the cargo/drone/autopilot buttons), as this is a function that all ships (even shuttles) should be able to use. This new component in your ship would automatically transport every jetcan you have locked directly to your hangar in the nearest (or pre-specified) base. Or why even bother with locking? Just take every single one that you can see in your scanner/grid!
This would make looting so much more effective and the game so much more fun! You wouldn't have to travel so many unnecessary kilometers in space, and use your time for much better, and most of all, lucrative purposes.
If we elaborate, this gizmo could even get more functions, like automatically refining the loot at the base, so you don't need to spend time on that either. Also, in the future, maybe this thing could evolve to an AI Co-ship-controlling device that would automatically warp around to belts and lock down and shoot npcs. Think of the time and efforts it would save!!!
Seriously,
If you want the cans, go get them.
If you thin you're too slow, equip a mwd.
If you don't want the mwd penalties on your ship, rethink.
Now, if you don't want to spend your time on looting cans, just let someone else take them.
The original post had a great idea though. Scoop can directly, instead of the open-select all-dragging procedure.
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.16 18:38:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Rufus Kex
The original post had a great idea though. Scoop can directly, instead of the open-select all-dragging procedure.
Add the following menu:
"Scoop to Cargobay"
in addition to the normal
"Open Cargo"
Scoop to Cargobay will add the can directly to your cargobay without opening the can and having you to drag it.
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.16 18:38:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Rufus Kex
The original post had a great idea though. Scoop can directly, instead of the open-select all-dragging procedure.
Add the following menu:
"Scoop to Cargobay"
in addition to the normal
"Open Cargo"
Scoop to Cargobay will add the can directly to your cargobay without opening the can and having you to drag it.
|
TextEnjoy
|
Posted - 2004.09.17 15:39:00 -
[137]
Scooping loot is mind-numbing, even in a boosted Rifter.
Vote +1 for Salvage Drones.
-----
My basement has more "Fault Tolerance" than the Tranquility server. |
TextEnjoy
|
Posted - 2004.09.17 15:39:00 -
[138]
Scooping loot is mind-numbing, even in a boosted Rifter.
Vote +1 for Salvage Drones.
-----
My basement has more "Fault Tolerance" than the Tranquility server. |
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.17 16:55:00 -
[139]
Edited by: S'Daria on 17/09/2004 21:55:29
Any word from CCP? I would like to hear something even if its:
"We'll consider implementing some of these ideas after Shiva."
Anything?
Meep?
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.17 16:55:00 -
[140]
Edited by: S'Daria on 17/09/2004 21:55:29
Any word from CCP? I would like to hear something even if its:
"We'll consider implementing some of these ideas after Shiva."
Anything?
Meep?
|
|
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.17 21:51:00 -
[141]
Here a link to a discussion in the EVE General Discussion board.
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.17 21:51:00 -
[142]
Here a link to a discussion in the EVE General Discussion board.
|
Jemba'k Ko'cha
|
Posted - 2004.09.19 04:18:00 -
[143]
got to be enough reasons here for CCP to look at this properly surely
-------------------------------------------
Knowledge is the bomb |
Jemba'k Ko'cha
|
Posted - 2004.09.19 04:18:00 -
[144]
got to be enough reasons here for CCP to look at this properly surely
-------------------------------------------
Knowledge is the bomb |
Obfuscate
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 08:36:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Obfuscate on 20/09/2004 08:38:24
How about a little icon in the bottom right of your viewable screen.
When there is lootable containers within 30km it blinks. When it blinks you can click on it, and it tells you what is out there to loot. You then double click on something and it loots to your cargo.
Note: Drones are dumb and slow and require manual control. I dont endorse any salvage drones or anything of the sort that still takes "time"
|
Obfuscate
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 08:36:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Obfuscate on 20/09/2004 08:38:24
How about a little icon in the bottom right of your viewable screen.
When there is lootable containers within 30km it blinks. When it blinks you can click on it, and it tells you what is out there to loot. You then double click on something and it loots to your cargo.
Note: Drones are dumb and slow and require manual control. I dont endorse any salvage drones or anything of the sort that still takes "time"
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 08:45:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Obfuscate
Note: Drones are dumb and slow and require manual control. I dont endorse any salvage drones or anything of the sort that still takes "time"
Ahh, but what if they were F.O.F. drones that pick up loot cans automatically?
Battleships take over a minute to target a can so there would be no point really to have them have to target, BUT they should be able to target a cargo container and select a salvage drone and select "Retrieve Cargo".
A second command for these drones should be, "Retrieve Cargo Continuously" - just like "Mine" and "Mine Continuously".
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 08:45:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Obfuscate
Note: Drones are dumb and slow and require manual control. I dont endorse any salvage drones or anything of the sort that still takes "time"
Ahh, but what if they were F.O.F. drones that pick up loot cans automatically?
Battleships take over a minute to target a can so there would be no point really to have them have to target, BUT they should be able to target a cargo container and select a salvage drone and select "Retrieve Cargo".
A second command for these drones should be, "Retrieve Cargo Continuously" - just like "Mine" and "Mine Continuously".
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 22:14:00 -
[149]
CCP, can we get a responce? Anything?
Meep?
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 22:14:00 -
[150]
CCP, can we get a responce? Anything?
Meep?
|
|
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 09:00:00 -
[151]
Kewl idea in this thread: Originally by: Orb Lati
Ive been reading alot of requests for tractor beams for scoping cargo containers.
As a minmatar a scoff at the idea of using a "beam" to do my work, sounds a bit too Amarrish.
Heres a better solution in keeping with our races can do nature
I want a electomagnet on the end of a steel cable and winch, which i can fire at the containers at some distance turing on the magnet and draging the container closer to me.
Hell with all the changes the "CCP techies" have done to my guns i need the target practice i can get.
anyway Nurf the beams, Boost the projectiles :)
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 09:00:00 -
[152]
Kewl idea in this thread: Originally by: Orb Lati
Ive been reading alot of requests for tractor beams for scoping cargo containers.
As a minmatar a scoff at the idea of using a "beam" to do my work, sounds a bit too Amarrish.
Heres a better solution in keeping with our races can do nature
I want a electomagnet on the end of a steel cable and winch, which i can fire at the containers at some distance turing on the magnet and draging the container closer to me.
Hell with all the changes the "CCP techies" have done to my guns i need the target practice i can get.
anyway Nurf the beams, Boost the projectiles :)
|
Ilfar
|
Posted - 2004.09.24 13:16:00 -
[153]
Originally by: S'Daria
...I just tried to summarize it for someone who doesn't necessarily want to take the time to read 3 pages of thread.
Great, found that AFTER reading through the rest of the thread... Doh! ;) :)
I've never had to loot BS corpses after killing them before, but I'd imagine the transit time must be something on the order of trying to pick up loot in my hauler (which means I can definitely see a need for something to help with this). I think a large portion of complaints about making it easier on ore thieves could be dismissed if you could differentiate between jettison cans and loot cans and only use these measures on the loot cans.
My preference for a solution would be a drone, a little larger than a decent heavy combat drone (both for the larger engines needed, and the comm gear needed to operate it at a longer range). Preferably make it able to haul the entire loot can back and dump the contents in your hold. Have the speed while hauling the can back dependant on the size of the load inside the can, and unable to haul anything over around 500m3?
*-----------------------*
Press to test...
*click*
Release to detonate... |
Ilfar
|
Posted - 2004.09.24 13:16:00 -
[154]
Originally by: S'Daria
...I just tried to summarize it for someone who doesn't necessarily want to take the time to read 3 pages of thread.
Great, found that AFTER reading through the rest of the thread... Doh! ;) :)
I've never had to loot BS corpses after killing them before, but I'd imagine the transit time must be something on the order of trying to pick up loot in my hauler (which means I can definitely see a need for something to help with this). I think a large portion of complaints about making it easier on ore thieves could be dismissed if you could differentiate between jettison cans and loot cans and only use these measures on the loot cans.
My preference for a solution would be a drone, a little larger than a decent heavy combat drone (both for the larger engines needed, and the comm gear needed to operate it at a longer range). Preferably make it able to haul the entire loot can back and dump the contents in your hold. Have the speed while hauling the can back dependant on the size of the load inside the can, and unable to haul anything over around 500m3?
*-----------------------*
Press to test...
*click*
Release to detonate... |
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.25 00:34:00 -
[155]
Edited by: S'Daria on 25/09/2004 00:41:14
I think, besides having the drone solution that having a solution for Industrials would be good.
Tractor and Transfer beams should be able to installed in the 2nd High (non-turret) slot.
I still like the "grapple-hook" approach...that too should be a non-turret high-slot.
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.25 00:34:00 -
[156]
Edited by: S'Daria on 25/09/2004 00:41:14
I think, besides having the drone solution that having a solution for Industrials would be good.
Tractor and Transfer beams should be able to installed in the 2nd High (non-turret) slot.
I still like the "grapple-hook" approach...that too should be a non-turret high-slot.
|
Ricdic
|
Posted - 2004.09.26 17:53:00 -
[157]
A lot of these ideas are really good. I personally quite liked the tractor beam in freelancer, but it would need some modifying for eve. Salvage drone is also a great idea. I dont see any issue with ore thiefs for a couple of reasons. Firstly if shiva does indeed present criminal flagging, ore thiefs wont be able to operate effectively. Secondly , make the tractor beams or drones only able to pick up the un-named containers. By this i mean, that all containers in EVE that are not npc loot , have their owners names on them (jettisoned and secure). Use the drone skills etc that were mentioned, or set up the tractor beam for 10km base, with 5km per level addition. Ore thiefs would not be able to use them either way. Due to the fact that we dont really have enough slots to waste on our ships (especially with lev4 agents on the way) , have them inbuilt on all ships, or just stick with the salvage drones. Either way something needs doing, and as an active caldari torp/cruise missile crazy lev3 kill mission runner i cant think of anything i would love to see more than this.
Also the thing that wasnt brought up until the overview that was posted, was the fact that ore-theifs couldnt effectively use the salvage drones anyway due to the fact that indy's cant hold drones. Wonder if we will start seein em out in 1300m3 exequeror's
|
Ricdic
|
Posted - 2004.09.26 17:53:00 -
[158]
A lot of these ideas are really good. I personally quite liked the tractor beam in freelancer, but it would need some modifying for eve. Salvage drone is also a great idea. I dont see any issue with ore thiefs for a couple of reasons. Firstly if shiva does indeed present criminal flagging, ore thiefs wont be able to operate effectively. Secondly , make the tractor beams or drones only able to pick up the un-named containers. By this i mean, that all containers in EVE that are not npc loot , have their owners names on them (jettisoned and secure). Use the drone skills etc that were mentioned, or set up the tractor beam for 10km base, with 5km per level addition. Ore thiefs would not be able to use them either way. Due to the fact that we dont really have enough slots to waste on our ships (especially with lev4 agents on the way) , have them inbuilt on all ships, or just stick with the salvage drones. Either way something needs doing, and as an active caldari torp/cruise missile crazy lev3 kill mission runner i cant think of anything i would love to see more than this.
Also the thing that wasnt brought up until the overview that was posted, was the fact that ore-theifs couldnt effectively use the salvage drones anyway due to the fact that indy's cant hold drones. Wonder if we will start seein em out in 1300m3 exequeror's
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.27 02:53:00 -
[159]
Time to pick up loot:
Screeny
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.27 02:53:00 -
[160]
Time to pick up loot:
Screeny
|
|
|
Ricdic
|
Posted - 2004.09.28 04:31:00 -
[161]
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
|
Ricdic
|
Posted - 2004.09.28 04:31:00 -
[162]
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
|
S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.28 11:08:00 -
[163]
Here's my attempt to summarize everything suggested/said so far (updated from page 4):
Complaints: Picking up Loot...
- ...is a time sink, faster cargo pickup would make the game more enjoyable
- ...takes longer than killing rats, not fun
- ...from asteroid fields is tricky, hard to manuever in some ships
- ...without an MWD can take 10+ minutes for long range combat types
- ...over a 200-square km area takes alot of time
- ...is tidious and boring
- ...is annoying, especially when its useless stuff or when there are alot of cans
- ...is not fun, its like playing connect the dots intead you have diamonds on your screen
Complaints:
- Default range of 1.5km for looking in a cargo is too short
- Don't like the idea of having to put a MWD because its a mid-slot and shield/cap hit
- Battleship with MWD is very limiting
- Increasing intervals between rat spawn to give time to pickup loot would not be enjoyable
- Don't spend time coding to fix this problem
- Don't make picking up cargo too easy
- Any high-slot solution will probably never be used
- Spending 30 minutes picking up loot after 10 minutes of fighting is not fun
- Funny how advanced the world of EVE is and there's no technology to pickup cargo
- Don't have us beg for this new feature
Recommended Drone types:
- Salvage drones - drones that pick up cargo and drop into cargobay like what Mining Drones do with Ore
- Cargo drones - drones that drag the cargo container towards you
- Cargo Scanner drone - would move closer and provide cargo scan info
Recommended for slotted items:
- Cargo Transporters - teleports cargo into the ship's hold
- Increase the range of Cargo scanners
- Add a new module called "Cargo Manager" which would pick up loot automatically
- Grappling hook (Minmatar approach) to grab cans
Skill Recommendations:
- Cargo Management: Increases the default 1.5km range of pickup/view
- Cargo Management: Increases the range to to pick up by +20%/level (upto 100%, maximum 3km instead of 1.5km)
- Salvage: Increases range to pickup/look by 2km per level (maximum at 11.5km)
General recommendations:
- Immediately keep the target on can after killing a rat
- Add an icon on the cargo window to 'Scoop to Cargo' when opening a can
- When you double click on a container it auto loads into your cargo
- Increase range of pickup/view to from 1.5km to 3-5km
- Allow mining drones to pick up cargo (since they already pick up ore)
- Drop loot into 1 container, especially for missions
- Forsaken Ruins story already refers to them
- Add the option "Scoop to Cargo" on a cargo can
- Have NPC only drop named loot, otherwise no loot at all
- Have autopickup like Hack/NetHack
- Add an option to automatically pickup loot within 1.5km of a container
- Allow people to install a shuttle that they can remotely pilot to pickup cargo (especially in Battleships)
- Auto scan containers within 30km, without a Cargo Scanner
- Double clicking any can within 30km loots it into your cargo container
- Have a built-in tractor beam
Salvage drones suggestions:
- Small drone, (600 m/s, drone size: 50m3, cargo size: 10-25m3)
- Medium drone, (450 m/s, drone size: 100m3, cargo size: 25-50m3)
- Large drone, (300 m/s, drone size: 250m3, cargo size: 100-125m3)
- Positive: Ore thieves couldn't use since industrialials don't have drones
- Range needs to be at least 40-50km
- Negative: Industrials could not take advantage of this since they don't have drone bays
- Salvage Drone Operation: Increases range/speed/or amount of cargo drones can pickup
- If items can't be picked up by drone, a message pops up
- Drone makes several trips back and forth until cargo is transfered
- A FOF Salvage drone, picks up loot without having to target (Battleships can take upwards of a minute to target a can)
- Don't require that ship have a lock to pick up cargo
- Have these drones have built-in cargo containers so they can hold more than their size allows (whatever that expando technology is called)
Tractor Beams suggestions:
- Moves a cargo container towards you at 50-100 m/s (no target required)
- OR moves cargo container towards you at 500 m/s (can use crystals to modify range/speed)
- Upto 10 cans can be 'pulled' towards you at a time
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Small Intensity Tractor Beam: High slot, transfer 10m3/sec at 15km range
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: Would be used by ore thieves
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
Transfer Beam suggestions:
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.28 11:08:00 -
[164]
Here's my attempt to summarize everything suggested/said so far (updated from page 4):
Complaints: Picking up Loot...
- ...is a time sink, faster cargo pickup would make the game more enjoyable
- ...takes longer than killing rats, not fun
- ...from asteroid fields is tricky, hard to manuever in some ships
- ...without an MWD can take 10+ minutes for long range combat types
- ...over a 200-square km area takes alot of time
- ...is tidious and boring
- ...is annoying, especially when its useless stuff or when there are alot of cans
- ...is not fun, its like playing connect the dots intead you have diamonds on your screen
Complaints:
- Default range of 1.5km for looking in a cargo is too short
- Don't like the idea of having to put a MWD because its a mid-slot and shield/cap hit
- Battleship with MWD is very limiting
- Increasing intervals between rat spawn to give time to pickup loot would not be enjoyable
- Don't spend time coding to fix this problem
- Don't make picking up cargo too easy
- Any high-slot solution will probably never be used
- Spending 30 minutes picking up loot after 10 minutes of fighting is not fun
- Funny how advanced the world of EVE is and there's no technology to pickup cargo
- Don't have us beg for this new feature
Recommended Drone types:
- Salvage drones - drones that pick up cargo and drop into cargobay like what Mining Drones do with Ore
- Cargo drones - drones that drag the cargo container towards you
- Cargo Scanner drone - would move closer and provide cargo scan info
Recommended for slotted items:
- Cargo Transporters - teleports cargo into the ship's hold
- Increase the range of Cargo scanners
- Add a new module called "Cargo Manager" which would pick up loot automatically
- Grappling hook (Minmatar approach) to grab cans
Skill Recommendations:
- Cargo Management: Increases the default 1.5km range of pickup/view
- Cargo Management: Increases the range to to pick up by +20%/level (upto 100%, maximum 3km instead of 1.5km)
- Salvage: Increases range to pickup/look by 2km per level (maximum at 11.5km)
General recommendations:
- Immediately keep the target on can after killing a rat
- Add an icon on the cargo window to 'Scoop to Cargo' when opening a can
- When you double click on a container it auto loads into your cargo
- Increase range of pickup/view to from 1.5km to 3-5km
- Allow mining drones to pick up cargo (since they already pick up ore)
- Drop loot into 1 container, especially for missions
- Forsaken Ruins story already refers to them
- Add the option "Scoop to Cargo" on a cargo can
- Have NPC only drop named loot, otherwise no loot at all
- Have autopickup like Hack/NetHack
- Add an option to automatically pickup loot within 1.5km of a container
- Allow people to install a shuttle that they can remotely pilot to pickup cargo (especially in Battleships)
- Auto scan containers within 30km, without a Cargo Scanner
- Double clicking any can within 30km loots it into your cargo container
- Have a built-in tractor beam
Salvage drones suggestions:
- Small drone, (600 m/s, drone size: 50m3, cargo size: 10-25m3)
- Medium drone, (450 m/s, drone size: 100m3, cargo size: 25-50m3)
- Large drone, (300 m/s, drone size: 250m3, cargo size: 100-125m3)
- Positive: Ore thieves couldn't use since industrialials don't have drones
- Range needs to be at least 40-50km
- Negative: Industrials could not take advantage of this since they don't have drone bays
- Salvage Drone Operation: Increases range/speed/or amount of cargo drones can pickup
- If items can't be picked up by drone, a message pops up
- Drone makes several trips back and forth until cargo is transfered
- A FOF Salvage drone, picks up loot without having to target (Battleships can take upwards of a minute to target a can)
- Don't require that ship have a lock to pick up cargo
- Have these drones have built-in cargo containers so they can hold more than their size allows (whatever that expando technology is called)
Tractor Beams suggestions:
- Moves a cargo container towards you at 50-100 m/s (no target required)
- OR moves cargo container towards you at 500 m/s (can use crystals to modify range/speed)
- Upto 10 cans can be 'pulled' towards you at a time
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Small Intensity Tractor Beam: High slot, transfer 10m3/sec at 15km range
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: Would be used by ore thieves
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
Transfer Beam suggestions:
- Have a skill that increases range/effectiveness
- Negative: Would require a new slotted item
- Negative: If its a high slot item it would probably not be used
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.09.28 11:10:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Ricdic
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
I think you have to be logged in to see it. Try it again or copy it into your browser.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.28 11:10:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Ricdic
got an access denied page from that pic u tried posting dude
I think you have to be logged in to see it. Try it again or copy it into your browser.
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Raymond Drake
|
Posted - 2004.09.30 18:24:00 -
[167]
Some of these suggested features would be nice.
Agreed.
Raymond Drake
Weaver of the Dream
DreamScape Corporation
DreamScape Digest Editor-in-Chief |
Raymond Drake
|
Posted - 2004.09.30 18:24:00 -
[168]
Some of these suggested features would be nice.
Agreed.
Raymond Drake
Weaver of the Dream
DreamScape Corporation
DreamScape Digest Editor-in-Chief |
Trell Artela
|
Posted - 2004.10.01 09:05:00 -
[169]
Brilliant ideas, fully agree.
I'd personally opt for both salvage drones and tractor beam simply because some ships (e.g. thorax) have fewer slots but lots of drone space and others (e.g. maller) have little/no drone space but more slots.
And if the tractor beam were a high-slot item it'd give some more purpose to those notorious "utility slots". Heck, a even buddy in an indy on loot pickup detail would be a viable option then
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Trell Artela
|
Posted - 2004.10.01 09:05:00 -
[170]
Brilliant ideas, fully agree.
I'd personally opt for both salvage drones and tractor beam simply because some ships (e.g. thorax) have fewer slots but lots of drone space and others (e.g. maller) have little/no drone space but more slots.
And if the tractor beam were a high-slot item it'd give some more purpose to those notorious "utility slots". Heck, a even buddy in an indy on loot pickup detail would be a viable option then
|
|
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.01 11:48:00 -
[171]
Hmm...I wonder if Tractor Beams should be offensive weapons as well?
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.01 11:48:00 -
[172]
Hmm...I wonder if Tractor Beams should be offensive weapons as well?
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Trell Artela
|
Posted - 2004.10.01 14:32:00 -
[173]
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much 
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Trell Artela
|
Posted - 2004.10.01 14:32:00 -
[174]
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.02 01:01:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Trell Artela
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
Both. Using a tractor beam on an object or on someone else who is not in your corp or gang should be considered an offensive action. Originally by: Trell Artela
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
A battleship should be able to use a Tractor beam against a frigate. Originally by: Trell Artela
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much
I like ideas too 
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.02 01:01:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Trell Artela
What exactly do you mean by that?
Using a tractor on an object you don't "own" being considered an offensive action (e.g. to deter ore thieves)? Or being able to "attract" a ship towards your own? Or something else altogether?
Both. Using a tractor beam on an object or on someone else who is not in your corp or gang should be considered an offensive action. Originally by: Trell Artela
The first one I'd understand but is a bit too personal to my tastes... depends a lot on perception of (ore) theft in general and all.
Attracting ships might be nice though I fear the effect'll be too similar to a webber (the target will probably struggle to maintain orbit distance causing it to simply slow down) Moreover, attracting cans is one thing, battleships on the other hand... hmm.
A battleship should be able to use a Tractor beam against a frigate. Originally by: Trell Artela
Seriously, I think these ideas are great as they are now, no need to complicate things too much
I like ideas too
|
Plastic
|
Posted - 2004.10.04 20:14:00 -
[177]
I hate looting o.o
|
Plastic
|
Posted - 2004.10.04 20:14:00 -
[178]
I hate looting o.o
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.05 00:15:00 -
[179]
As do I. Unfortunately because of the code freeze some time ago its unlikely we'll see any of these changes in Shiva.
We'll find out tomorrow if they were able to sneak any in.
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.05 00:15:00 -
[180]
As do I. Unfortunately because of the code freeze some time ago its unlikely we'll see any of these changes in Shiva.
We'll find out tomorrow if they were able to sneak any in.
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Kendar
|
Posted - 2004.10.10 20:39:00 -
[181]
why not make it realy easy you can open a can and see whats inside from lets say 30km but you cant pick up anything until you are 3-5km away from the can (and you cant open a can from that distance if its a jetisoned one)
that way you can see if its worth picking up and not another module for something like that its just a waste of slots that we need for other stuff
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Kendar
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Posted - 2004.10.10 20:39:00 -
[182]
why not make it realy easy you can open a can and see whats inside from lets say 30km but you cant pick up anything until you are 3-5km away from the can (and you cant open a can from that distance if its a jetisoned one)
that way you can see if its worth picking up and not another module for something like that its just a waste of slots that we need for other stuff
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:03:00 -
[183]
Not a bad idea...then I guess Cargo Scanners would have like a 50km+ range? I wound't mind that.
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S'Daria
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:03:00 -
[184]
Not a bad idea...then I guess Cargo Scanners would have like a 50km+ range? I wound't mind that.
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deadlyblade
|
Posted - 2004.10.12 00:12:00 -
[185]
The resone we need this is cause when using an apoc i kill things over 100km away and fitting mwd is not even resonable because it messes up your cap. and fit my battle setup i go err. 98m/s lol if u can imagian it takes a long time to collect loot thats even 15km away. and the time it takes to bookmark warp out warp in move the 15km and finding out the can held junk its just really annoying.
Like star trek all ships should have a teleporter( lock the can hit [teleport contant] and presto ) no more using alt to loot cans instead i can now use alt to mine while i hunt >:D. makes me more cash and much much happier.
>:D you guys make everything in this game take so long with work sleep I already hardly have time to hunt never mind collecting loots.
Quote:
If life gives u lemonds... use them to blind your enemy and mate with his wife >:)
Want power want cool people want a big organized corp. join ( EVE GLOBAL ALLIANCE ) NOW ACCESS TO 0.0 SPACE 96+ members ( FADE alliance >:D) |
deadlyblade
|
Posted - 2004.10.12 00:12:00 -
[186]
The resone we need this is cause when using an apoc i kill things over 100km away and fitting mwd is not even resonable because it messes up your cap. and fit my battle setup i go err. 98m/s lol if u can imagian it takes a long time to collect loot thats even 15km away. and the time it takes to bookmark warp out warp in move the 15km and finding out the can held junk its just really annoying.
Like star trek all ships should have a teleporter( lock the can hit [teleport contant] and presto ) no more using alt to loot cans instead i can now use alt to mine while i hunt >:D. makes me more cash and much much happier.
>:D you guys make everything in this game take so long with work sleep I already hardly have time to hunt never mind collecting loots.
Quote:
If life gives u lemonds... use them to blind your enemy and mate with his wife >:)
Want power want cool people want a big organized corp. join ( EVE GLOBAL ALLIANCE ) NOW ACCESS TO 0.0 SPACE 96+ members ( FADE alliance >:D) |
Samuel Samson
|
Posted - 2004.10.14 02:28:00 -
[187]
I personally think, that if you can have propulsion jammers, webifiers, whatever, and warp disruptors, why CAN'T you have a tractor beam. Seems that just the implementation of a decent tractor beam would offer up a LOT of possibilities. From using it to bring that long range rat into range, or using it to pull cargo in, or even using it to tow unmanned ships to station. Currently, I think the fact that there is no decent way to move a ship is pretty silly. I figure, if you have to take the time to lock onto someone, then fire up the beam (using cap of course) it could have an effect similar to the afterburners, in that the thrust will move the ship, only this time it will move it towards the originator of the beam. (to an inner limit of course.. don't want to collide the ships...
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Samuel Samson
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Posted - 2004.10.14 02:28:00 -
[188]
I personally think, that if you can have propulsion jammers, webifiers, whatever, and warp disruptors, why CAN'T you have a tractor beam. Seems that just the implementation of a decent tractor beam would offer up a LOT of possibilities. From using it to bring that long range rat into range, or using it to pull cargo in, or even using it to tow unmanned ships to station. Currently, I think the fact that there is no decent way to move a ship is pretty silly. I figure, if you have to take the time to lock onto someone, then fire up the beam (using cap of course) it could have an effect similar to the afterburners, in that the thrust will move the ship, only this time it will move it towards the originator of the beam. (to an inner limit of course.. don't want to collide the ships...
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BigRed
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 19:36:00 -
[189]
Cargo collection is very tedious. But at the same time we don't want to make it too easy on theives(not that they are bad but this is the sort of thing that could unbalance the game more towards their favor very easily)
I agree with sevral people on this forum that drones may be the best answer
here are my reasons why and a few suggestions
*you have a limited number of drones you can control
*if it were like most drones their range would be effected with each skill increase (also speed increases with skill training could be very usefull)
*if the skill training is nice and long say level 8 or so it would prohibit overuse
*also make the drones prohibitively expensive (kind of like harvesters were)
*if you are too careless with them then they die (and thus the cost side is once agian revisited)
*make them big! they should take up minimum 250 drone capacity (if you have a ship that is too small to use them then you probably are fast enough to not need them)
This would maintain balance but make the drones avaialbe to the higher level players that really do need a better system to retrieve cargo.
Red
- Big & Red - |
BigRed
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 19:36:00 -
[190]
Cargo collection is very tedious. But at the same time we don't want to make it too easy on theives(not that they are bad but this is the sort of thing that could unbalance the game more towards their favor very easily)
I agree with sevral people on this forum that drones may be the best answer
here are my reasons why and a few suggestions
*you have a limited number of drones you can control
*if it were like most drones their range would be effected with each skill increase (also speed increases with skill training could be very usefull)
*if the skill training is nice and long say level 8 or so it would prohibit overuse
*also make the drones prohibitively expensive (kind of like harvesters were)
*if you are too careless with them then they die (and thus the cost side is once agian revisited)
*make them big! they should take up minimum 250 drone capacity (if you have a ship that is too small to use them then you probably are fast enough to not need them)
This would maintain balance but make the drones avaialbe to the higher level players that really do need a better system to retrieve cargo.
Red
- Big & Red - |
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.20 14:25:00 -
[191]
Remember in Shiva you will be criminally flagged when stealing from cans not beloning to you.
Although so far the tests haven't worked, but they are working on it.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.20 14:25:00 -
[192]
Remember in Shiva you will be criminally flagged when stealing from cans not beloning to you.
Although so far the tests haven't worked, but they are working on it.
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Lygos
|
Posted - 2004.10.27 23:20:00 -
[193]
I think industrials at least ought to have longer scooping range. Like 3-4km. That or make drones non-collidable. I have little pathos for making gameplay easier for those engaging in redistributive economics. PvErs and PvPers get more Ritalin sponsored love than any other economic sector..
Anything that gets rid of discouragements for groups to mine is a respectable thing. Helping haulers to not have to wade through 50 drones and around a dozen other miners is simply the removal of a disincentive. That's about it.
(I really have never comprehended the original antipathy on the part of the designers towards jetcans - maybe you could post the reason for your misgivings?)
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.10.27 23:20:00 -
[194]
I think industrials at least ought to have longer scooping range. Like 3-4km. That or make drones non-collidable. I have little pathos for making gameplay easier for those engaging in redistributive economics. PvErs and PvPers get more Ritalin sponsored love than any other economic sector..
Anything that gets rid of discouragements for groups to mine is a respectable thing. Helping haulers to not have to wade through 50 drones and around a dozen other miners is simply the removal of a disincentive. That's about it.
(I really have never comprehended the original antipathy on the part of the designers towards jetcans - maybe you could post the reason for your misgivings?)
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.11.01 12:56:00 -
[195]
I was just curious, there is 5 pages of player input here, is there any intention of CCP making any changes to the loot collection system?
There has to be some good ideas here. Out of all these responses, your playerbase believes that changing the loot collection system or parameters would be great for the players.
Is there any plan on changing things, even if only in the "brainstorming" stage?
It just seems kind of anticlimatic that there is 5 pages of responses from the initial CCP posting, and there hasn't been a peep from CCP since.
www.hadean.org
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Gungankllr
|
Posted - 2004.11.01 12:56:00 -
[196]
I was just curious, there is 5 pages of player input here, is there any intention of CCP making any changes to the loot collection system?
There has to be some good ideas here. Out of all these responses, your playerbase believes that changing the loot collection system or parameters would be great for the players.
Is there any plan on changing things, even if only in the "brainstorming" stage?
It just seems kind of anticlimatic that there is 5 pages of responses from the initial CCP posting, and there hasn't been a peep from CCP since.
www.hadean.org
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Faedorne
|
Posted - 2004.11.01 20:54:00 -
[197]
The time to loot and kill factor ensures that a BS doesn't farm all newbie mobs. "Not worth the time.".
I hate looting, but I honestly believe it is a dynamic that cannot be solved. Think about everyone looting 10x/100x faster (forget stealing at this point, just think about your own looting). No more scavenging, no more investing time to make money based on looting.
If it was intended for a kill to drop loot, and for us to get that loot always, then just enable auto-loot and you just get stuff in your inventory. Otherwise, leave the system as it is. I agree with all of this and the other thread about how needed a solution is to this problem, if it is considered a problem.
Last night I made 550k from loots in my Kessie in about two hours. Plus the bounties put me at 750K. 3/4 of that was moving to the containers.
Missions are one thing, maybe auto-loot there, but this would actually do more than just make looting easier. The entire market would obtain an influx of money since the cost ship+gear/avg. isk income/hour would literally increase per my calculations 3 fold. Meaning I would have made 750K in about 30-45 minutes instead of 2 hours.
There are massive fluctuations that would occur due to such a simple change as this.
I'm still upset, but I don't think they would add this due to the dynamics of the market. I could be wrong, and often am, but I hope this sheds some light and thoughts as to why they probably aren't jumping on top of this item. |
Faedorne
|
Posted - 2004.11.01 20:54:00 -
[198]
The time to loot and kill factor ensures that a BS doesn't farm all newbie mobs. "Not worth the time.".
I hate looting, but I honestly believe it is a dynamic that cannot be solved. Think about everyone looting 10x/100x faster (forget stealing at this point, just think about your own looting). No more scavenging, no more investing time to make money based on looting.
If it was intended for a kill to drop loot, and for us to get that loot always, then just enable auto-loot and you just get stuff in your inventory. Otherwise, leave the system as it is. I agree with all of this and the other thread about how needed a solution is to this problem, if it is considered a problem.
Last night I made 550k from loots in my Kessie in about two hours. Plus the bounties put me at 750K. 3/4 of that was moving to the containers.
Missions are one thing, maybe auto-loot there, but this would actually do more than just make looting easier. The entire market would obtain an influx of money since the cost ship+gear/avg. isk income/hour would literally increase per my calculations 3 fold. Meaning I would have made 750K in about 30-45 minutes instead of 2 hours.
There are massive fluctuations that would occur due to such a simple change as this.
I'm still upset, but I don't think they would add this due to the dynamics of the market. I could be wrong, and often am, but I hope this sheds some light and thoughts as to why they probably aren't jumping on top of this item. |
Elias Wiltfong
|
Posted - 2004.11.07 18:53:00 -
[199]
Salvage Drones sound like a fantastic idea.
I like it better than a 'tractor beam' because salvage drones already exist in the fiction of the EVE universe. I also like it better because 50m3 of drone bay space for just one of these guys is MUCH more readily available on nearly every ship that I'd want to take into a fight than another high or medium power slot (for a 'tractor beam') on the ship.
I would love the ability to pick up the cargo containers faster after a fight. I would not want to sacrifice my high/med/low slots on the ship to do so; however, I would have no problem with sacrificing 50m3 of drone space (one 'salvage drone') for this. The moment I heard this idea, I immediately thought back to the Probe, a frigate that I often enjoyed combat with. That frigate had a drone bay with a very small amount of room, and no matter what I tried, I never could seem to find a way to make an effective use of it.
I can already envision the end of a fight, no more Guristas warping in to do battle with me... I open the drone bay and out flies one of my salvage drones. As I don't have any cargo containers locked onto, it starts to orbit me at an ever-increasing distance (scanning for containers to pick up). I lock target on one or two containers and it immediately rushes out to have a look. Meanwhile, I'm flying toward another container.
The drone flies out, latches onto a container for a few seconds, and starts flying back to me. It reaches me just as I'm approaching another container and I get the message 'Your salvage drone has recovered 100 Lead Charge S'. I loot the container I'm on, and the drone is already headed back toward the one it left. It comes back (again, 'Your salvage drone has recovered 'Basic Miner') and heads off again. This time it beeps and a large dotted ring contracts across my display (centered on the container the drone is visiting). Message appears 'Your salvage drone has found something that is too large for it to retrieve.' The drone sees another container and flies off. I head back and check to see what it couldn't carry and... no surprise, 10 Cap Booster 100. Meanwhile, the drone fetched some more ammo from the last container and has taken up an orbital pattern around me again.
I scoop it to the drone bay and warp back to station, mission complete.
THAT would be grand. |
Elias Wiltfong
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Posted - 2004.11.07 18:53:00 -
[200]
Salvage Drones sound like a fantastic idea.
I like it better than a 'tractor beam' because salvage drones already exist in the fiction of the EVE universe. I also like it better because 50m3 of drone bay space for just one of these guys is MUCH more readily available on nearly every ship that I'd want to take into a fight than another high or medium power slot (for a 'tractor beam') on the ship.
I would love the ability to pick up the cargo containers faster after a fight. I would not want to sacrifice my high/med/low slots on the ship to do so; however, I would have no problem with sacrificing 50m3 of drone space (one 'salvage drone') for this. The moment I heard this idea, I immediately thought back to the Probe, a frigate that I often enjoyed combat with. That frigate had a drone bay with a very small amount of room, and no matter what I tried, I never could seem to find a way to make an effective use of it.
I can already envision the end of a fight, no more Guristas warping in to do battle with me... I open the drone bay and out flies one of my salvage drones. As I don't have any cargo containers locked onto, it starts to orbit me at an ever-increasing distance (scanning for containers to pick up). I lock target on one or two containers and it immediately rushes out to have a look. Meanwhile, I'm flying toward another container.
The drone flies out, latches onto a container for a few seconds, and starts flying back to me. It reaches me just as I'm approaching another container and I get the message 'Your salvage drone has recovered 100 Lead Charge S'. I loot the container I'm on, and the drone is already headed back toward the one it left. It comes back (again, 'Your salvage drone has recovered 'Basic Miner') and heads off again. This time it beeps and a large dotted ring contracts across my display (centered on the container the drone is visiting). Message appears 'Your salvage drone has found something that is too large for it to retrieve.' The drone sees another container and flies off. I head back and check to see what it couldn't carry and... no surprise, 10 Cap Booster 100. Meanwhile, the drone fetched some more ammo from the last container and has taken up an orbital pattern around me again.
I scoop it to the drone bay and warp back to station, mission complete.
THAT would be grand. |
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Elias Wiltfong
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Posted - 2004.11.07 19:15:00 -
[201]
We are already able to view the contents of a cargo container from a distance greater than 1500m. I just tested this by destroying an NPC pirate ship, then locking target on the canister and using a 'Cargo Scanner' on it. (Medium-power slot, only took 4 energy to use, and my levels in the "survey" skill make it happen even faster.) It showed me exactly what was in that cargo container.
I don't think that we should give everyone that functionality through a skill that would just increase the range you can see what's inside a cargo container if we already HAVE a skill called "survey" and a module designed to penetrate the contents of a ship or container at long range. |
Elias Wiltfong
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Posted - 2004.11.07 19:15:00 -
[202]
We are already able to view the contents of a cargo container from a distance greater than 1500m. I just tested this by destroying an NPC pirate ship, then locking target on the canister and using a 'Cargo Scanner' on it. (Medium-power slot, only took 4 energy to use, and my levels in the "survey" skill make it happen even faster.) It showed me exactly what was in that cargo container.
I don't think that we should give everyone that functionality through a skill that would just increase the range you can see what's inside a cargo container if we already HAVE a skill called "survey" and a module designed to penetrate the contents of a ship or container at long range. |
Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2004.11.08 16:06:00 -
[203]
I'm adding my vote to Salvage drones (aren't they mentined in Eve fics anyway?) And maybe to a small autoscooping tractor beam thing that works at a limited range. Wasting a whole module slot is a bit much...
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Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2004.11.08 16:06:00 -
[204]
I'm adding my vote to Salvage drones (aren't they mentined in Eve fics anyway?) And maybe to a small autoscooping tractor beam thing that works at a limited range. Wasting a whole module slot is a bit much...
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.09 14:36:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Elias Wiltfong
We are already able to view the contents of a cargo container from a distance greater than 1500m. I just tested this by destroying an NPC pirate ship, then locking target on the canister and using a 'Cargo Scanner' on it. (Medium-power slot, only took 4 energy to use, and my levels in the "survey" skill make it happen even faster.) It showed me exactly what was in that cargo container.
I don't think that we should give everyone that functionality through a skill that would just increase the range you can see what's inside a cargo container if we already HAVE a skill called "survey" and a module designed to penetrate the contents of a ship or container at long range.
Cargo Scanner work upto like 30km+ so I don't see your point.
Most of the issues is picking up the loot, not leaving it because its "useless". Even "useless" loot can be salvaged into minerals.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.09 14:36:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Elias Wiltfong
We are already able to view the contents of a cargo container from a distance greater than 1500m. I just tested this by destroying an NPC pirate ship, then locking target on the canister and using a 'Cargo Scanner' on it. (Medium-power slot, only took 4 energy to use, and my levels in the "survey" skill make it happen even faster.) It showed me exactly what was in that cargo container.
I don't think that we should give everyone that functionality through a skill that would just increase the range you can see what's inside a cargo container if we already HAVE a skill called "survey" and a module designed to penetrate the contents of a ship or container at long range.
Cargo Scanner work upto like 30km+ so I don't see your point.
Most of the issues is picking up the loot, not leaving it because its "useless". Even "useless" loot can be salvaged into minerals.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.09 14:36:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Ysolde Xen
I'm adding my vote to Salvage drones (aren't they mentined in Eve fics anyway?) And maybe to a small autoscooping tractor beam thing that works at a limited range. Wasting a whole module slot is a bit much...
Most people won't sacrafice an entire slot just to pick-up loot, but to be honest I might if it worked well.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.09 14:36:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Ysolde Xen
I'm adding my vote to Salvage drones (aren't they mentined in Eve fics anyway?) And maybe to a small autoscooping tractor beam thing that works at a limited range. Wasting a whole module slot is a bit much...
Most people won't sacrafice an entire slot just to pick-up loot, but to be honest I might if it worked well.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2004.11.09 16:23:00 -
[209]
What I would like to see, and I would think would be easy to code is...
Being able to see whats in a can from a far distance. Say 50km, I don't need to scoop it, but would love to see if its worth my time to go and get it.
The problems I see with this are people stealing from loot cans, which could be a problem. Though I though that even NPC loot cans will be flaged, I might be wrong though.
I don't think I would ever use a mod on my ship to pickup cans, I like my set up and killing a hard spawn can be a pain even with all my slots devoted to fighting.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2004.11.09 16:23:00 -
[210]
What I would like to see, and I would think would be easy to code is...
Being able to see whats in a can from a far distance. Say 50km, I don't need to scoop it, but would love to see if its worth my time to go and get it.
The problems I see with this are people stealing from loot cans, which could be a problem. Though I though that even NPC loot cans will be flaged, I might be wrong though.
I don't think I would ever use a mod on my ship to pickup cans, I like my set up and killing a hard spawn can be a pain even with all my slots devoted to fighting.
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Grismar
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Posted - 2004.11.09 17:09:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Grismar on 09/11/2004 17:16:02
Edited by: Grismar on 09/11/2004 17:11:56
I'm probably repeating someone's point in this thread, but here goes anyway:
Cargo scoops do -not- need to be updated. The fact that hardly anyone is willing to use a slot for a cargo scanner and some skills to get it working properly shows this.
It's as simple as that, if cargo scooping really was this much of a problem, people would all have fitted cargo scanners a long time ago. In fact, I find cargo scooping to be very boring as well and I -do- have a cargo scanner fitted on my mission cruiser. I pick up about 1 in 4 cans, so cargo collection is no longer a chore.
Besides, changing this game mechanic will make cargo scanners all but useless, which is hardly fair to people who have been researching, building and marketing them. Having a change in demand because of ingame reasons is one thing, but having a chance of demand because of an deus ex machina event just reeks. (btw: I do not produce or research these items, just assuming there are people that do)
Greetings,
Grismar.
BTW: Judging by Lorth's reaction and the lack of mention the cargo scanner gets here, most people don't even know they exist o.O
Rats - Corp/Implants - Agents |
Grismar
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Posted - 2004.11.09 17:09:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Grismar on 09/11/2004 17:16:02
Edited by: Grismar on 09/11/2004 17:11:56
I'm probably repeating someone's point in this thread, but here goes anyway:
Cargo scoops do -not- need to be updated. The fact that hardly anyone is willing to use a slot for a cargo scanner and some skills to get it working properly shows this.
It's as simple as that, if cargo scooping really was this much of a problem, people would all have fitted cargo scanners a long time ago. In fact, I find cargo scooping to be very boring as well and I -do- have a cargo scanner fitted on my mission cruiser. I pick up about 1 in 4 cans, so cargo collection is no longer a chore.
Besides, changing this game mechanic will make cargo scanners all but useless, which is hardly fair to people who have been researching, building and marketing them. Having a change in demand because of ingame reasons is one thing, but having a chance of demand because of an deus ex machina event just reeks. (btw: I do not produce or research these items, just assuming there are people that do)
Greetings,
Grismar.
BTW: Judging by Lorth's reaction and the lack of mention the cargo scanner gets here, most people don't even know they exist o.O
Rats - Corp/Implants - Agents |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.13 04:13:00 -
[213]
I completely disagree with keeping a sucky mechanic cause it keeps a very small number of people in production(it doesnt. 100s of cargo scanners come into the game every day from rat loot). But even if it did represent 50 peoples livelyhood in the game its still a bad move to keep a sucky mechanic to keep those guys in a job.
Its baby with the bath water. First and foremost make the game cool. This is an issue that effects almost everyone every time they play. Immenient domain/right of way for the greater good applys (ie fricken make the game cool darn it~) The people producing will produce stuff with a real demand after some shifting.
-------------------------------------------------------
Moving on. Rather then giving people a long distance scooping by default I would let everyone cargo scan LOOT CANS to 100k without a cargo scanner. The ability to see whats out there would go a long way to helping people avoid tedium.
It will still suck to get cargo cans but atleast now you can know what your hastling over first and make the decision yourself.
As for things that collect loot cans. Maybe but it would specifically have to not collect ore. There are big complicated issues related to tractor ideas.
The ability to see in loot cans though has very little downside to everyday play.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.13 04:13:00 -
[214]
I completely disagree with keeping a sucky mechanic cause it keeps a very small number of people in production(it doesnt. 100s of cargo scanners come into the game every day from rat loot). But even if it did represent 50 peoples livelyhood in the game its still a bad move to keep a sucky mechanic to keep those guys in a job.
Its baby with the bath water. First and foremost make the game cool. This is an issue that effects almost everyone every time they play. Immenient domain/right of way for the greater good applys (ie fricken make the game cool darn it~) The people producing will produce stuff with a real demand after some shifting.
-------------------------------------------------------
Moving on. Rather then giving people a long distance scooping by default I would let everyone cargo scan LOOT CANS to 100k without a cargo scanner. The ability to see whats out there would go a long way to helping people avoid tedium.
It will still suck to get cargo cans but atleast now you can know what your hastling over first and make the decision yourself.
As for things that collect loot cans. Maybe but it would specifically have to not collect ore. There are big complicated issues related to tractor ideas.
The ability to see in loot cans though has very little downside to everyday play.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.13 04:17:00 -
[215]
You know speaking of low end production opportunities. The ability of people to scan cargo will slow down the rate that low end junk enters the game from rats CREATING low end production opportunities.
IE right now tons of junk enters the game cuase you have to pick up everything if you want to get a named mod. So you grab it all. If you could see ahead of time you might not grab the junk. That junk rots creating less in flux of low end junk via rats creating low end opportunities for people.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.13 04:17:00 -
[216]
You know speaking of low end production opportunities. The ability of people to scan cargo will slow down the rate that low end junk enters the game from rats CREATING low end production opportunities.
IE right now tons of junk enters the game cuase you have to pick up everything if you want to get a named mod. So you grab it all. If you could see ahead of time you might not grab the junk. That junk rots creating less in flux of low end junk via rats creating low end opportunities for people.
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Aion Amarra
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Posted - 2004.11.13 20:54:00 -
[217]
Following points:
I use a Maller. I neither want to sacrifice the 6th Highslot (which I use for a medium Nosferatu) nor any of the scarce medslots. (L Cap battery, 100MN AB, Cap recharger)
So I came up with some solutions making looting easier for everyone.
1. Take a look at I-War 2. Cargo Cans got jets, their are able to maneuver themselves. I'd like to see thrusters for cans implemented. You could link the can up with your boardcomputer. Linked up cans move towards the ship with some slow speed (50-100m/s). The number of how many cans you can link up depends on a skill. This would make looting easier for Battleships, that dont have a MWD fitted, and for everyone who sees the cans scattered over 200km. Just link up the cans which are the furthest away and a short time later, while you are collecting the cans nearby, you notice that they came a lot nearer than they were before.
2. The already mentioned drones. I'd like to see a cargo scanner drone, that is insanely fast. It travels from con to con, creating a list of everything it sees. The list appears in a pop up window on the UI. You can right-click and showinfo them as normal, but with two added options. 'Approach' for the ones who can't afford a salvage drone, or haven't got the drone space left and 'Salvage' which sends one of your slavage drones towards the container containing the item and afterwards brings it back to you. If you havent got a Scanner Drone, you can send the salvage drones to salvage items from a specific (targeted) container, or have them pick up items on random, like the sugegsted FOF drones.
3. Tractor Beam, which drags the containers towards you. They come in different sizes for the different ship classes, with different ranges and strengths. The strength of the tractor beams is measured in MN as the power of MWDs or ABs is. Yer bigger the power of the beam, yer bigger the effect. In addition to the standart option of having them drag something towards you, you could implement diferent functions (perhaps through tractor beam crystals?) like push away, move towards xxx, pull away from xxx, speed up, slow down. This could need different modules though. The main use wouldn't be the benefit of looting faster. but the options in combat, dragging a ship towards you, which either speeds something thats moves towards you up, or slows down something that tries to get away, increasing the speed of a friend, or pushing something towards him/dragging something away from him. Perhaps a good option for Logistics cruisers. Small Tractors got near no effect on large and massive ships, while the big ones have a massive impact on small ships. To counteract an imbalance here, the tractors could have their own tracking speeds, making it hard for the big ones to 'hit' something nimble. When the tractor 'hits' something it grabs it, and tries to do, whatever function the tractor is assigned to.
Would definately be interesting.
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Aion Amarra
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Posted - 2004.11.13 20:54:00 -
[218]
Following points:
I use a Maller. I neither want to sacrifice the 6th Highslot (which I use for a medium Nosferatu) nor any of the scarce medslots. (L Cap battery, 100MN AB, Cap recharger)
So I came up with some solutions making looting easier for everyone.
1. Take a look at I-War 2. Cargo Cans got jets, their are able to maneuver themselves. I'd like to see thrusters for cans implemented. You could link the can up with your boardcomputer. Linked up cans move towards the ship with some slow speed (50-100m/s). The number of how many cans you can link up depends on a skill. This would make looting easier for Battleships, that dont have a MWD fitted, and for everyone who sees the cans scattered over 200km. Just link up the cans which are the furthest away and a short time later, while you are collecting the cans nearby, you notice that they came a lot nearer than they were before.
2. The already mentioned drones. I'd like to see a cargo scanner drone, that is insanely fast. It travels from con to con, creating a list of everything it sees. The list appears in a pop up window on the UI. You can right-click and showinfo them as normal, but with two added options. 'Approach' for the ones who can't afford a salvage drone, or haven't got the drone space left and 'Salvage' which sends one of your slavage drones towards the container containing the item and afterwards brings it back to you. If you havent got a Scanner Drone, you can send the salvage drones to salvage items from a specific (targeted) container, or have them pick up items on random, like the sugegsted FOF drones.
3. Tractor Beam, which drags the containers towards you. They come in different sizes for the different ship classes, with different ranges and strengths. The strength of the tractor beams is measured in MN as the power of MWDs or ABs is. Yer bigger the power of the beam, yer bigger the effect. In addition to the standart option of having them drag something towards you, you could implement diferent functions (perhaps through tractor beam crystals?) like push away, move towards xxx, pull away from xxx, speed up, slow down. This could need different modules though. The main use wouldn't be the benefit of looting faster. but the options in combat, dragging a ship towards you, which either speeds something thats moves towards you up, or slows down something that tries to get away, increasing the speed of a friend, or pushing something towards him/dragging something away from him. Perhaps a good option for Logistics cruisers. Small Tractors got near no effect on large and massive ships, while the big ones have a massive impact on small ships. To counteract an imbalance here, the tractors could have their own tracking speeds, making it hard for the big ones to 'hit' something nimble. When the tractor 'hits' something it grabs it, and tries to do, whatever function the tractor is assigned to.
Would definately be interesting.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.14 01:41:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Qutsemnie
You know speaking of low end production opportunities. The ability of people to scan cargo will slow down the rate that low end junk enters the game from rats CREATING low end production opportunities.
IE right now tons of junk enters the game cuase you have to pick up everything if you want to get a named mod. So you grab it all. If you could see ahead of time you might not grab the junk. That junk rots creating less in flux of low end junk via rats creating low end opportunities for people.
Have you tried to "skip" a container while picking them up? It gets confusing...unless you make your own container and name it.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.14 01:41:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Qutsemnie
You know speaking of low end production opportunities. The ability of people to scan cargo will slow down the rate that low end junk enters the game from rats CREATING low end production opportunities.
IE right now tons of junk enters the game cuase you have to pick up everything if you want to get a named mod. So you grab it all. If you could see ahead of time you might not grab the junk. That junk rots creating less in flux of low end junk via rats creating low end opportunities for people.
Have you tried to "skip" a container while picking them up? It gets confusing...unless you make your own container and name it.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.14 01:43:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Grismar
Cargo scoops do -not- need to be updated. The fact that hardly anyone is willing to use a slot for a cargo scanner and some skills to get it working properly shows this.
Have you tried targeting a cargo container with a Battleship?
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.11.14 01:43:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Grismar
Cargo scoops do -not- need to be updated. The fact that hardly anyone is willing to use a slot for a cargo scanner and some skills to get it working properly shows this.
Have you tried targeting a cargo container with a Battleship?
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.14 02:07:00 -
[223]
Excellent observation s'daria. Predicting the future is a difficult thing and i didnt think about that~ Ya its a pain to skip cans. When im overloaded i specifically jettison the loot im leaving behind just so i wont double check the can. If you were trying to skip 3 or 4 cans out of 8 you would indeed get so confused you would never figure it out. [barring targeting tricks. Targeting tricks is when you target cans to keep track of a mental note that you attached to it.] Definatly would be harder then it sounds at first to skip cans though as you point out.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.14 02:07:00 -
[224]
Excellent observation s'daria. Predicting the future is a difficult thing and i didnt think about that~ Ya its a pain to skip cans. When im overloaded i specifically jettison the loot im leaving behind just so i wont double check the can. If you were trying to skip 3 or 4 cans out of 8 you would indeed get so confused you would never figure it out. [barring targeting tricks. Targeting tricks is when you target cans to keep track of a mental note that you attached to it.] Definatly would be harder then it sounds at first to skip cans though as you point out.
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Aterr Terradon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 17:46:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Aterr Terradon on 15/11/2004 17:53:42
S'Daria suggested that I post this in the Container Sticky, so I figured that she was right! Here goes.
A couple of my mining friends came up with a novel idea, and since it will tick off ore thieves LOL, I thought that I would toss it out here and see what kind of response it would generate.
A tethered can. Any container that can be Anchored, could also be tethered to a ship. Since you can't anchor a can in higher security area, this would give the can miners a more secure way to mine.
You could drag the can around with you as you mined. If you entered warp, the can would stay and if you returned, you would have to re-tether.
This would provide a Secure way for miners to keep their assets and just about put an end to all of the Low Security thievery. Since a Secure Can is Personal Property, scooping it (or even attempting to open it) could be considered an Offense worthy of Criminal Flagging. (Just don't forget your password!)
EDIT: Forgot to add my 2 cents worth to the Loot Can Aspect. I like the Idea of a Salvage Drone. But I believe that the Tractor Beam Idea would end up being much better as Drones are easy targets for all manners of Rats!
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Aterr Terradon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 17:46:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Aterr Terradon on 15/11/2004 17:53:42
S'Daria suggested that I post this in the Container Sticky, so I figured that she was right! Here goes.
A couple of my mining friends came up with a novel idea, and since it will tick off ore thieves LOL, I thought that I would toss it out here and see what kind of response it would generate.
A tethered can. Any container that can be Anchored, could also be tethered to a ship. Since you can't anchor a can in higher security area, this would give the can miners a more secure way to mine.
You could drag the can around with you as you mined. If you entered warp, the can would stay and if you returned, you would have to re-tether.
This would provide a Secure way for miners to keep their assets and just about put an end to all of the Low Security thievery. Since a Secure Can is Personal Property, scooping it (or even attempting to open it) could be considered an Offense worthy of Criminal Flagging. (Just don't forget your password!)
EDIT: Forgot to add my 2 cents worth to the Loot Can Aspect. I like the Idea of a Salvage Drone. But I believe that the Tractor Beam Idea would end up being much better as Drones are easy targets for all manners of Rats!
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.11.19 16:38:00 -
[227]
I don't understand the resistance to teleporters/transporters. Given that you can collect cargo from a distance of FIFTEEN HUNDRED METERS, how do you think it crosses that distance currently? Little space wings?
And teleporters wouldn't give Ore Thieves any particular advantage over the current situation...just limit the transfer rate to 10m3 per second. Ok, so some loot items (drones in particular) could take up to 20 seconds to transfer, but overally I think you'd be ahead of the game compared to the fly to can, check loot, collect, fly to next can & repeat method.
An ore thief trying to steal any reasonable quantity of ore with a teleporter would have to sit there for some considerable time. More valuable ores would require even MORE time, as they are higher volume per unit. Plenty of time for you to attempt some "aggressive dissuasion" in his direction.
And yes, it does mean there'd be no defence against Ore Thieves in secure systems...but hang on, that's EXACTLY the situation we have now, and it's why CCP gave you secure cans. Don't even THINK about whining about how small they are. Safe but small, large but unprotected. It's your choice people.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.11.19 16:38:00 -
[228]
I don't understand the resistance to teleporters/transporters. Given that you can collect cargo from a distance of FIFTEEN HUNDRED METERS, how do you think it crosses that distance currently? Little space wings?
And teleporters wouldn't give Ore Thieves any particular advantage over the current situation...just limit the transfer rate to 10m3 per second. Ok, so some loot items (drones in particular) could take up to 20 seconds to transfer, but overally I think you'd be ahead of the game compared to the fly to can, check loot, collect, fly to next can & repeat method.
An ore thief trying to steal any reasonable quantity of ore with a teleporter would have to sit there for some considerable time. More valuable ores would require even MORE time, as they are higher volume per unit. Plenty of time for you to attempt some "aggressive dissuasion" in his direction.
And yes, it does mean there'd be no defence against Ore Thieves in secure systems...but hang on, that's EXACTLY the situation we have now, and it's why CCP gave you secure cans. Don't even THINK about whining about how small they are. Safe but small, large but unprotected. It's your choice people.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.11.19 16:50:00 -
[229]
Aterr;
I can see what you are trying to achieve with this, but if CCP wanted to make mining that easy, they'd have put 5,000% cargo expanders in the game. The tethered can you are talking about would virtually be an extension of your hold.
I think the current situation is about right, as follows;
1. If you mine in less than 0.4, any thief who turns up you can shoot. Sounds fine to me.
2. If you mine in 0.5 or higher, you can't shoot the thief, so use a secure can.
3. If mining in 0.5 in a secure can doesn't make money fast enough for you, then either go mine in 0.4 or less, or continue to use an ordinary can and accept that you may get ore-thieved.
No risk, No ISK.
How hard can it be to understand? CCP don't want people sat in 1.0 systems, mining till they turn green, making loads of ISK. Whine all you want about ore thieves. Call them scum all you like. It's not a way I'd choose to play, but then sitting in a 1.0 belt mining all day isn't a way I'd choose to play either. 1.0 miners and ore thieves deserve each other, it's like Good & Evil. I'll let you decide who's who.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
Grey Area
|
Posted - 2004.11.19 16:50:00 -
[230]
Aterr;
I can see what you are trying to achieve with this, but if CCP wanted to make mining that easy, they'd have put 5,000% cargo expanders in the game. The tethered can you are talking about would virtually be an extension of your hold.
I think the current situation is about right, as follows;
1. If you mine in less than 0.4, any thief who turns up you can shoot. Sounds fine to me.
2. If you mine in 0.5 or higher, you can't shoot the thief, so use a secure can.
3. If mining in 0.5 in a secure can doesn't make money fast enough for you, then either go mine in 0.4 or less, or continue to use an ordinary can and accept that you may get ore-thieved.
No risk, No ISK.
How hard can it be to understand? CCP don't want people sat in 1.0 systems, mining till they turn green, making loads of ISK. Whine all you want about ore thieves. Call them scum all you like. It's not a way I'd choose to play, but then sitting in a 1.0 belt mining all day isn't a way I'd choose to play either. 1.0 miners and ore thieves deserve each other, it's like Good & Evil. I'll let you decide who's who.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
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Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.11.19 19:43:00 -
[231]
If they turned a cargo scanner into an integrated cargo scanner + transporter module I would mount it.
Heres my refinement: how about taking the transporter idea and making it a module that lets you loot at 20k. That would help alot by changing the geometery for long distance shooters.
Currently you have to zigzag to pickup cans. That zig zag accounts for MOST of the travel time. Not only is the line distance ALOT higher then just plotting a line that gets close to everything but also the stop/start/slow down/ turn around time dominates the travel time. So you loose twice.
but think what happens if you can mount a transporter module in mid slot. You get to plot a straight line path that takes you within 20k of all the cans. You dont need to stop/start accelerate and you dont need to make hard turns so loot/travel time would go way down.
The reason the module would need integrated cargo scan for cargo cans is to see whats there. And asking people to mount a transporter + cargo scanner would be overkill.
The integrated cargo scanner on the midslot transporter module would be limited to cargo cans for balance.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.19 19:43:00 -
[232]
If they turned a cargo scanner into an integrated cargo scanner + transporter module I would mount it.
Heres my refinement: how about taking the transporter idea and making it a module that lets you loot at 20k. That would help alot by changing the geometery for long distance shooters.
Currently you have to zigzag to pickup cans. That zig zag accounts for MOST of the travel time. Not only is the line distance ALOT higher then just plotting a line that gets close to everything but also the stop/start/slow down/ turn around time dominates the travel time. So you loose twice.
but think what happens if you can mount a transporter module in mid slot. You get to plot a straight line path that takes you within 20k of all the cans. You dont need to stop/start accelerate and you dont need to make hard turns so loot/travel time would go way down.
The reason the module would need integrated cargo scan for cargo cans is to see whats there. And asking people to mount a transporter + cargo scanner would be overkill.
The integrated cargo scanner on the midslot transporter module would be limited to cargo cans for balance.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.19 19:48:00 -
[233]
Also make the transporter module let you loot by tonage x cap. So everything you loot takes a noticable amount of cap. And heavier stuff takes more cap.
Why?
Industrial haulers couldnt use it easily for hauler size loads cause the cap regen wouldnt be enough.
On the otherhand the cap regen relative to cargo capicity is very high for war ships and anything they wanted to loot out of combat would be easy for them to find the cap for by just making the cap charge just annoying enough to make it prohibitive for indy transfers. It would also tend to limit the modules use to low cap stress situations.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.19 19:48:00 -
[234]
Also make the transporter module let you loot by tonage x cap. So everything you loot takes a noticable amount of cap. And heavier stuff takes more cap.
Why?
Industrial haulers couldnt use it easily for hauler size loads cause the cap regen wouldnt be enough.
On the otherhand the cap regen relative to cargo capicity is very high for war ships and anything they wanted to loot out of combat would be easy for them to find the cap for by just making the cap charge just annoying enough to make it prohibitive for indy transfers. It would also tend to limit the modules use to low cap stress situations.
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Libby Jackson
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Posted - 2004.11.27 20:57:00 -
[235]
Right click -> Scoop All
Get that in and I'm happy.
--------------------------------------------
'I am going to be the next Sansha, I'm going to kill all the Amarrians and one clown.'
'Why the clown?'
'See! No one cares about the Amarrians!' |
Libby Jackson
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 20:57:00 -
[236]
Right click -> Scoop All
Get that in and I'm happy.
--------------------------------------------
'I am going to be the next Sansha, I'm going to kill all the Amarrians and one clown.'
'Why the clown?'
'See! No one cares about the Amarrians!' |
Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 02:33:00 -
[237]
Actually if they were going to add a scoop all I would like it to be a button at the top as an oval. No right clicking menu. Just click scoop all.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.28 02:33:00 -
[238]
Actually if they were going to add a scoop all I would like it to be a button at the top as an oval. No right clicking menu. Just click scoop all.
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Fairy Dust
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Posted - 2004.11.30 05:55:00 -
[239]
Here is a fairly simple Idea, give mining drones the ability to slowly pull the cans toward you, the speed in which they go is relative to the aproximate volume of what is inside the cans. useing it on one can would be pointless, but, say 25 cans (chaining a spawn or something) launch a load of mining drones, tell them to "Collect nearby Cargo Cans" the little buggers go and drag the cans within 1km of your ship, and set off to the next one. An anchored can couldnt be moved, but any other can could. If thats to much, make a skill related to it, lvl 1 gives the ability, and each sequential level makes the speed at which they return increase.
Maybe this has been posted before, maybe not, I didnt want to bother reading through 6 pages.
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Fairy Dust
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Posted - 2004.11.30 05:55:00 -
[240]
Here is a fairly simple Idea, give mining drones the ability to slowly pull the cans toward you, the speed in which they go is relative to the aproximate volume of what is inside the cans. useing it on one can would be pointless, but, say 25 cans (chaining a spawn or something) launch a load of mining drones, tell them to "Collect nearby Cargo Cans" the little buggers go and drag the cans within 1km of your ship, and set off to the next one. An anchored can couldnt be moved, but any other can could. If thats to much, make a skill related to it, lvl 1 gives the ability, and each sequential level makes the speed at which they return increase.
Maybe this has been posted before, maybe not, I didnt want to bother reading through 6 pages.
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Skeeve
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Posted - 2004.11.30 20:01:00 -
[241]
It's a timesink to pick up cargo.. especially with the last patch.. the rats are harder.. and you end up with containers strewn out over hundreds of K...
How about a "tractor beam" feature? Tied into your powergrid so you can bring in containers.. the higher your skill level the further you can lockon and towin the goodies.
Just a suggestion.. but honestly it's a huge annoyance trying to clean up loot when it takes 40mins to AFB from can to can..
"Your Mother was a Hamster.. and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" - traditional French Insult |
Skeeve
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Posted - 2004.11.30 20:01:00 -
[242]
It's a timesink to pick up cargo.. especially with the last patch.. the rats are harder.. and you end up with containers strewn out over hundreds of K...
How about a "tractor beam" feature? Tied into your powergrid so you can bring in containers.. the higher your skill level the further you can lockon and towin the goodies.
Just a suggestion.. but honestly it's a huge annoyance trying to clean up loot when it takes 40mins to AFB from can to can..
"Your Mother was a Hamster.. and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" - traditional French Insult |
Knarf
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Posted - 2004.12.03 07:22:00 -
[243]
I would suggest a new type of drone that would grab a container and simply bring it in range of you, then head back for another.
The drone should not have any fire power nor much armor, all of the mechanical resources should be devoted to speed. Making it decently fast would be very helpful.
........................................
- Knarf
http://www.Eve-Auctions.com
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Knarf
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Posted - 2004.12.03 07:22:00 -
[244]
I would suggest a new type of drone that would grab a container and simply bring it in range of you, then head back for another.
The drone should not have any fire power nor much armor, all of the mechanical resources should be devoted to speed. Making it decently fast would be very helpful.
........................................
- Knarf
http://www.Eve-Auctions.com
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Sybylle
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Posted - 2004.12.03 14:12:00 -
[245]
-Laser-like module
-Hi-slot
-Ship size linked
-CPU according to size (S,M,L) : 10 100 1000
-PW : 25, 250, 2500.
-Range (in km): 7.5; 20; 40
-Tractor Beam Condensation
-Range increased By 10% km per level, starting at 10
-Rank 3
-Primary : Perception
-Secondary : Willpower
Prereq : Science 4, Mechanic 5
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Sybylle
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 14:12:00 -
[246]
-Laser-like module
-Hi-slot
-Ship size linked
-CPU according to size (S,M,L) : 10 100 1000
-PW : 25, 250, 2500.
-Range (in km): 7.5; 20; 40
-Tractor Beam Condensation
-Range increased By 10% km per level, starting at 10
-Rank 3
-Primary : Perception
-Secondary : Willpower
Prereq : Science 4, Mechanic 5
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Tanakka
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 16:38:00 -
[247]
This just doesnt seem that hard to me if soemone wants to adjust this.
Make NPC dropped cans different from jet cans (It could be just a program flag) and change the open range for these cans to 5k.
This lets everyone take rat loot faster, but does not make things easier for ore theives.
-Just a thought.
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Tanakka
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Posted - 2004.12.15 16:38:00 -
[248]
This just doesnt seem that hard to me if soemone wants to adjust this.
Make NPC dropped cans different from jet cans (It could be just a program flag) and change the open range for these cans to 5k.
This lets everyone take rat loot faster, but does not make things easier for ore theives.
-Just a thought.
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NephI AsantE
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Posted - 2004.12.16 19:18:00 -
[249]
Ok, so I haven't tested the new patch yet for distance scanning. Perhaps that will make it easier to determine which cans I will waste my time on approaching.
Now, I haven't read all 7 pages of this thread. ( Bad reply poster!) One of the complaints I read during my quick preview was BS captains whining about the time it takes to move a BS. We can all admit that the Titanic could turn on a dime better than these slugs.
What if you could have a frig loaded in your cargo hold/drone bay that you could deploy? Use the frig to jet around to the cans, then redock and take control of your BS again? Don't worry #1, I'll lead this away mission...
Ok, I know... totally stupid idea, but I couldn't resist. Perhaps I could disengage the saucer section...ROTFL... Please don't pod me for this one... 
NephI
"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection." -D&C 130:18
Is your clone up2date? |
NephI AsantE
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 19:18:00 -
[250]
Ok, so I haven't tested the new patch yet for distance scanning. Perhaps that will make it easier to determine which cans I will waste my time on approaching.
Now, I haven't read all 7 pages of this thread. (Bad reply poster!) One of the complaints I read during my quick preview was BS captains whining about the time it takes to move a BS. We can all admit that the Titanic could turn on a dime better than these slugs.
What if you could have a frig loaded in your cargo hold/drone bay that you could deploy? Use the frig to jet around to the cans, then redock and take control of your BS again? Don't worry #1, I'll lead this away mission...
Ok, I know... totally stupid idea, but I couldn't resist. Perhaps I could disengage the saucer section...ROTFL... Please don't pod me for this one...
NephI
"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection." -D&C 130:18
Is your clone up2date? |
|
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Piotr Anatolev
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Posted - 2004.12.18 04:57:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Piotr Anatolev on 18/12/2004 05:04:16
Ok, if anyone cares to even comment on my thoughts on this matter, it wont be forgiving, but I cant let that shut me up on my thoughts!
I say get rid of the can all togeter! I know its a compromize to save on server and banwidth and whatever resources, but the can-concept is just so...canned!
Let the bits dangle free in space! Way cooler!
And nerf the scanner overview, and the system scanner to not show what it sees, but rather blips (and perhaps a probability analysis of the blipdependant on some skill or module type), rather than just telling the player whats floating around out there all the time. Thats not to discover, thats just like reading an inventory list of a systems contents! B O R I N G!
EDITED// Oh, did I forget to say something about how to retreive loot dangling free in space? Do I even have to? Isnt it self explanatory? Salvage drones fer christ sake! Salvage drones!
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Piotr Anatolev
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Posted - 2004.12.18 04:57:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Piotr Anatolev on 18/12/2004 05:04:16
Ok, if anyone cares to even comment on my thoughts on this matter, it wont be forgiving, but I cant let that shut me up on my thoughts!
I say get rid of the can all togeter! I know its a compromize to save on server and banwidth and whatever resources, but the can-concept is just so...canned!
Let the bits dangle free in space! Way cooler!
And nerf the scanner overview, and the system scanner to not show what it sees, but rather blips (and perhaps a probability analysis of the blipdependant on some skill or module type), rather than just telling the player whats floating around out there all the time. Thats not to discover, thats just like reading an inventory list of a systems contents! B O R I N G!
EDITED// Oh, did I forget to say something about how to retreive loot dangling free in space? Do I even have to? Isnt it self explanatory? Salvage drones fer christ sake! Salvage drones!
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Harald Benkneckare
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Posted - 2004.12.18 11:51:00 -
[253]
Not important
{
Ok I havent reade thru all 1000 posts so exuse me if the idea is already posted.
I like the new 50k scanner idea and double speed ABs but I dont think the ship is moving fast enough and I dont want so sacrifice 1 of my medslots for a scanner...
}
The important stuff
{
so what if there were a dedicated scannerslot on each or some of the ships, not just a low-, med-, highslot but a scannerslot wich you only can fit scanners into. I like to see this feature and other dedicated slots for other stuff (guns, ew, propulsion etc.) this would specialize the ships further.
}
Still salvagedrones got my vote tho... Godday!
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Harald Benkneckare
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Posted - 2004.12.18 11:51:00 -
[254]
Not important
{
Ok I havent reade thru all 1000 posts so exuse me if the idea is already posted.
I like the new 50k scanner idea and double speed ABs but I dont think the ship is moving fast enough and I dont want so sacrifice 1 of my medslots for a scanner...
}
The important stuff
{
so what if there were a dedicated scannerslot on each or some of the ships, not just a low-, med-, highslot but a scannerslot wich you only can fit scanners into. I like to see this feature and other dedicated slots for other stuff (guns, ew, propulsion etc.) this would specialize the ships further.
}
Still salvagedrones got my vote tho... Godday!
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woodman az
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Posted - 2004.12.18 14:12:00 -
[255]
"so what if there were a dedicated scannerslot on each or some of the ships, not just a low-, med-, highslot but a scannerslot wich you only can fit scanners into."
That is a very good all around solution.
I like it!
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woodman az
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Posted - 2004.12.18 14:12:00 -
[256]
"so what if there were a dedicated scannerslot on each or some of the ships, not just a low-, med-, highslot but a scannerslot wich you only can fit scanners into."
That is a very good all around solution.
I like it!
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Stregone
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 17:45:00 -
[257]
I'd be happy with an Approach and Scoop All command. If the devs feel nice they can allow me to queue the command up on all the cans so I can read the forum while my ship crawls across space picking up all the loot :p
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Stregone
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Posted - 2004.12.18 17:45:00 -
[258]
I'd be happy with an Approach and Scoop All command. If the devs feel nice they can allow me to queue the command up on all the cans so I can read the forum while my ship crawls across space picking up all the loot :p
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Lady Loony
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Posted - 2004.12.19 13:49:00 -
[259]
I vote for the idea of salvage drones... especially since Indys dont have drone bays, so ore thieving would not be helped at all by them (or are there ore thief who use non-indys?)
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Lady Loony
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Posted - 2004.12.19 13:49:00 -
[260]
I vote for the idea of salvage drones... especially since Indys dont have drone bays, so ore thieving would not be helped at all by them (or are there ore thief who use non-indys?)
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.12.23 13:03:00 -
[261]
I wish CCP would show some sort of interest in this thread, other than starting it. They created this thread in order to have a place to pose thoughts and ideas about scooping cargo containers, then haven't responded since.
This post is FOUR MONTHS old. You would think that a DEV or SOMEONE could poke their head in and say something.
www.hadean.org
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.12.23 13:03:00 -
[262]
I wish CCP would show some sort of interest in this thread, other than starting it. They created this thread in order to have a place to pose thoughts and ideas about scooping cargo containers, then haven't responded since.
This post is FOUR MONTHS old. You would think that a DEV or SOMEONE could poke their head in and say something.
www.hadean.org
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Yolo
|
Posted - 2004.12.25 13:37:00 -
[263]
Tractoring beam
I was playing 'Earth and Beyond' during beta testing and collecting loot wasnt really a problems.
I have been playing 'Freelancer' and collecting loot is not a problem.
There are solutions being worked out to protect player jettisoned cargo containers, but for pirate loot, fake item containers why cant ALL SHIPS come standard equipted with a 5km ranged tractoring beam. (prehaps * skill lvl in tractoring, need lvl 1 to activate it) then all you need to do is get within range hit the 'loot button' and voila, containers get tractored close to you (would only apply for loot containers with fake items as its a npc-mission-w***e-loot issue). they automaticly opens so all you have to do is select what you want to move to your cargo.
and there was a nice post about why we need it, well I play this game to have fun, collecting cargo containers is not fun, killing pirates is.
an alternate solution would be to increas the value of loot (minimum normal Tech I) and scrap all basic stuff. then pirates would not leave a container unless they where supposed to drop decent stuff anyway, not so much crap, not so much loot containers.
demand does control the market.
and players DEMAND a solution for this issue.
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Yolo
|
Posted - 2004.12.25 13:37:00 -
[264]
Tractoring beam
I was playing 'Earth and Beyond' during beta testing and collecting loot wasnt really a problems.
I have been playing 'Freelancer' and collecting loot is not a problem.
There are solutions being worked out to protect player jettisoned cargo containers, but for pirate loot, fake item containers why cant ALL SHIPS come standard equipted with a 5km ranged tractoring beam. (prehaps * skill lvl in tractoring, need lvl 1 to activate it) then all you need to do is get within range hit the 'loot button' and voila, containers get tractored close to you (would only apply for loot containers with fake items as its a npc-mission-w***e-loot issue). they automaticly opens so all you have to do is select what you want to move to your cargo.
and there was a nice post about why we need it, well I play this game to have fun, collecting cargo containers is not fun, killing pirates is.
an alternate solution would be to increas the value of loot (minimum normal Tech I) and scrap all basic stuff. then pirates would not leave a container unless they where supposed to drop decent stuff anyway, not so much crap, not so much loot containers.
demand does control the market.
and players DEMAND a solution for this issue.
|
Icarus Starkiller
|
Posted - 2004.12.26 22:46:00 -
[265]
I'll toss in my vote for this one as well.
Salvage drones.
Initially they will only bring in cans flagged to you (of ships that you've killed - or your gang has killed). Other cans you will have to select and order the drone to retrieve.
Salvage drones. A MUST
In 1 lvl4 mission I ran with several associates there were over 100 cans scattered across an area of space almost 700KM long. We tried to keep our eyes on the big cruiser and BS pops, but with so many cans it was unmanageable. Even in a zippy frigate it took so long to retrieve cans that we ended up just leaving a third of them after 30 minutes of pick up, move to a ship with cargo space, go after more...
Salvage Drones... did I say that already?
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Icarus Starkiller
|
Posted - 2004.12.26 22:46:00 -
[266]
I'll toss in my vote for this one as well.
Salvage drones.
Initially they will only bring in cans flagged to you (of ships that you've killed - or your gang has killed). Other cans you will have to select and order the drone to retrieve.
Salvage drones. A MUST
In 1 lvl4 mission I ran with several associates there were over 100 cans scattered across an area of space almost 700KM long. We tried to keep our eyes on the big cruiser and BS pops, but with so many cans it was unmanageable. Even in a zippy frigate it took so long to retrieve cans that we ended up just leaving a third of them after 30 minutes of pick up, move to a ship with cargo space, go after more...
Salvage Drones... did I say that already?
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 13:14:00 -
[267]
I would love to see 3 things and that would easilly solve my problem.
1: A scoop all from can option.
I know alot of people just pick upp the jucy stuff from cans and to them this option would be useless however knowing that every object that the game has to keep track off causes lag I always try to clean upp space. Most of the time all the loot in all the cans dropped during one encounter fits easilly in my hold and thus I pick upp everything, I meen I already have to go to look if there is some nice loot in there so why not take all if I have space.
For this reason I would like to have an option to scoop everything from the can without having to open it, mark all and drag it to my cargo bay.
2/3: Tractor beam/tug drone.
The same effect achived in different ways.
I have heard the devs are considering salvage drones, the problem with them is that you cant choose what they should pick first my sugestion thus is a way to pull the can to you.
The benefits of this is that the only thing they have to do is move the can in space somthing I doubt is very hard for the devs to do.
Since the tractor beam would take upp a slot (probably high) it needs to be considerably more powerfull than the drones being able to operate at ither a greater distance, move the can faser, have additional uses (such as pulling ships) or a combination of the three.
Mainly I am interested in the first one, having gotten used to picking upp cans I can live with the time it takes to fly from can to can.
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 13:14:00 -
[268]
I would love to see 3 things and that would easilly solve my problem.
1: A scoop all from can option.
I know alot of people just pick upp the jucy stuff from cans and to them this option would be useless however knowing that every object that the game has to keep track off causes lag I always try to clean upp space. Most of the time all the loot in all the cans dropped during one encounter fits easilly in my hold and thus I pick upp everything, I meen I already have to go to look if there is some nice loot in there so why not take all if I have space.
For this reason I would like to have an option to scoop everything from the can without having to open it, mark all and drag it to my cargo bay.
2/3: Tractor beam/tug drone.
The same effect achived in different ways.
I have heard the devs are considering salvage drones, the problem with them is that you cant choose what they should pick first my sugestion thus is a way to pull the can to you.
The benefits of this is that the only thing they have to do is move the can in space somthing I doubt is very hard for the devs to do.
Since the tractor beam would take upp a slot (probably high) it needs to be considerably more powerfull than the drones being able to operate at ither a greater distance, move the can faser, have additional uses (such as pulling ships) or a combination of the three.
Mainly I am interested in the first one, having gotten used to picking upp cans I can live with the time it takes to fly from can to can.
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Udoshi
|
Posted - 2005.01.03 03:07:00 -
[269]
Is this topic dead, or have the devs listened? I admit i'm a bit behind in recent news, but I would really love to see salvage drones, especially with the addition of mwd's to drones in recentish patches, and the reference to salvage drones in one of the Eve stories seems to add support to the existence of these drones. Any new information?
AKA [CG}SilverKnight of Deus Ex |
Safaomae
|
Posted - 2005.01.05 18:22:00 -
[270]
I think the best idea in this thread imo would be a salvage drone that physically latches onto your desired cargo container, and brings it back to you.
dont make them too big, but make them fast - after all it just has to be arms on a rocket
do not make them able to attach to any container other than:
containers belonging to you, containers belonging to another member of your gang, npc containers.
(prevents uber ore theives)
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Haratu
|
Posted - 2005.01.06 10:15:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Haratu on 06/01/2005 10:21:13
Edited by: Haratu on 06/01/2005 10:17:46
As a droner who uses 14 drones in my dominix and runs a salvage company, all i have to say is...
Salvage Drones!!!
Cargo capacity of about 20-30 should be enough. This will of course stop it from collecting every cargo container (other drones for example) but at least it will help.
The other option would be to make it pick one object and drag it back... one object meaning 1 item of 1 type, not 15,000 items of 1 type.
Salvage drones could also be incorporataed with my idea
It would at least make my job worthwhile doing. There is a lot of abandoned containers out there...here to stop ore thieves from messing with peoples stuff.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Tadius Rhain
|
Posted - 2005.01.06 19:38:00 -
[272]
Dear Sir,
This is a no brainer. Salvage drones.
Yes there will be *****ing about people who can't use them because their ship has no drone space but.. tough bikkies. If you're really, really desperate you could put in a... *shudder*... "tractor beam".
Chop-chop kthx.
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Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |
Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2005.01.08 01:26:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Grey Area
Aterr;
3. If mining in 0.5 in a secure can doesn't make money fast enough for you, then either go mine in 0.4 or less, or continue to use an ordinary can and accept that you may get ore-thieved.
No risk, No ISK.
You completely undo your whole argument with that last statment.
No risk, plenty of ISK. That's why ore thieves are so out of control, there is no risk for them in 0.5 and up.
I agree with the whole profitability premise of security ratings, but that risk/isk line was a shot in your own foot.
Now, back to salvage drones...
Yes, we need them. MORE than tractor beams (multiple ships tractoring the same can... factor that) or transporters (same premise). The first pusher-drone that reaches the can, gets it (by moving the can). The same for the first salvage drone, up to the capacity of its hold, and so on.
They could limit tractors to 'first tractor gets the can', or even have pushers fight each other (with bigger pushers usually winning). That would certainly add an element to the whole post-battle loot scramble. Pusher drones could also be used against ships... imagine the results... (Homeworld, anyone?).
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Laxen
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Posted - 2005.01.08 04:08:00 -
[274]
Yeah slavage drone. Every ship should have a salvage button, drone bay or not. -Call it drone or what ever. The thing may have a total cargo of 10-100m3 or something and a skilled based range maybe. If the loot is too big for it, ok loot the old fashion way. Looting plain suck in this game. Fix it plz. It can't be that difficult, can it?
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Nyrram
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Posted - 2005.01.08 06:22:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Nyrram on 08/01/2005 06:34:09
I believe someone already touched on this idea, but I will suggest it again.. we don't really need any extra additions to how we collect loot. A very simple fix would solve the problem almost entirely.
There is already coding involved to distinguish loot-drop canisters from jettison canisters. For instance, jet cans have a player associated with them, while loot cans cannot have anything placed in them by any player, etc. So, it should theoretically be possible to increase the range of manipulation for loot drop canisters considerably. (In beta, canister range was what, 50km I think.. or was it more like 15km, I've slept since then)
All we need to do is increase the range significantly for loot canisters only, leaving player-jettisoned cans at 1500m or possibly a tiny bit more. (3km would probably be more appropriate for player-jet cans) And by significantly, I mean to at 15km or even more.
In addition, a skill to affect the range at which you can loot all canisters, including jet cans, would be lovely. 10% range per level or even just 5% would help... call it 'canister manipulation' or something... make it high rank with high prereq if there is concern of abuse.
Looting our battlefield should take only a few minutes at most. (For those in bships, a little strategy would still be required, bm a few cans that are 30km or so apart, warp in, collect your 15km "bubble" of cans, warp out, repeat)
Loot-drop canisters represent the 'corpses' of our NPC targets. in no other MMORPG that I know of does it take so long to loot a corpse. in some games, looting is even automatic! That is, you 'find' things in the corpse automatically, or can be set up at least to 'autoloot'. In most games, a corpse is dropped, but it takes roughly 15 seconds to run to a corpse, open it, and and do whatever is necessary to loot it. (provided you take everything... pick-and-choose looting is always slower)
There is only one problem that arises from making loot-drop canisters easier to loot, and that is 'ownership' of the canister. Most games have flags that tell which character (or group/gang/party/wtfever) of characters has loot rights on that corpse. This prevents a "level 1" from watching a "level 50" kill the "dragon" and then running over to grab the "Dragonfang Sword of Wtfpwnage" from the freshly steaming corpse. EVE lacks this, but that makes it much more exciting, you can actually steal things in this game. It would just be easier to steal someone's loot, but I would accept that risk gladly if looting were easier for everyone.
EDIT: Realized I'm tired and hadn't made paragraphs.. and instead of periods... I had used... dot dot dot.. way... too... much...
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Nyrram |
Vvari
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Posted - 2005.01.11 18:56:00 -
[276]
Looting is great fun, if the can drops 1k away from you that is, else traveling 45k to an elder can in an apoc is a realy long and boring process. Sometimes the cans are so far away its better to BM the cans and warp back in again. It is time for something to reduce this time by a tractor beam, long range looting or salvage drones.
I know this has been said a hunderd times, but I just wanted you to know I totaly agree with this.
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new sig under construction |
Phyre
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Posted - 2005.01.12 10:37:00 -
[277]
God I feel the pain you guys go through :(
In my corp, when we chain spawns, this is how we do it:
There are usually two tanks (apocs mostly, for thier armor tanking goodness) who warp in and get the little warp scrambling frigs to target them and do thier warp scramble stuff.
Then the damage dealers and webbers move in (that's me!). We kill the big rats, cruisers and battleships, leaving the frigs alive and on the tanks. If the friggies are alive, they won't spawn, so any spawn we get will always be a battleship or cruiser or whatever big ship was left in the rat squad.
Then, we all move to the center of the roid belt (you can find this by right clicking open space, finding your roid belt, then "look at". The location you are looking from is the center of the roid belt - exactly where all new rats will spawn. So the move there basically to hold the position and give us damage dealers a place to return to. My job, as a Megathron, is to web the rats and beat them up. If we get multiple spawns, I can only web one.. the others go flying balls to the wall all over the place and I end up having to chase them down. Often times, I'll be flying 20-30km away just to pick up the rat loot (and since they are almost always bs or cruiser, it's good stuff, so we can't let it sit :\). By the time I get all the rat loot, my cap is dead and I chug back to the spot where the tanks are sitting, chatting and doing anything other than collecting loot, leaving me to rebuild my cap before the next spawn, lol.
I would LOVE a tractor beam. I made a post about tractor beams, and I would love to fit a Heavy Tractor Beam (it could use the same cpu/pg requirements as Nos systems for balancing issues), then I could haul cans in at 24km away while just sitting there with the tanks, chatting and doing anything other than racing around collecting loot :P
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Vvari
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Posted - 2005.01.16 17:24:00 -
[278]
With how many people do you chain then? Unless there is a 10mil NPC i hunt alone. thse officers are tougth as nail and imposible for me to solo in my apoc. But upto 6 mil no problem to solo. So I actualy feel for you that you have to chain/hunt with more then one person. (splitting profit = bad)
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new sig under construction |
NormandyHacker
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Posted - 2005.01.20 09:42:00 -
[279]
Is it just me or have really none of the Devs/Mods ever replied to this topic? :(
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San Regal
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Posted - 2005.01.21 23:40:00 -
[280]
Why not pay a Minmatar noob 250,000 isk an hour to pick up cans for you in his probe?
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Luscius Bruscheye
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Posted - 2005.01.25 07:29:00 -
[281]
I agree that scooping cargo needs to be much easier/faster.
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.01.26 11:14:00 -
[282]
Scooping the cargo is real pain, even with new UI improvements. This small change wouldn't do much for the current situation, but would help atleast a little.
Current procedure:
1. Click at the container
2. Click the approach button (and wait)
3. Click the open container button
4. Click the open cargo button
5. Drag and drop the loot to cargo bay
Simplified procedure:
1. Click at the container
2. Click the approach button (and wait)
3. Click scoop cargo button
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Carter Burke
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Posted - 2005.01.31 16:59:00 -
[283]
Unrelated to loot, but I suppose could be used in that context, is this.
Basically I'd like a "load to cargo" and "dump cargo" option in windows that aren't specifically my cargo. While I originally considered this as a while-docked process, I could see this being a loot option as well (with "dump cargo" disabled for loot cans).
CB
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Elayne Carlheimer
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Posted - 2005.02.02 06:30:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Elayne Carlheimer on 02/02/2005 06:31:52
Originally by: Nyrram
Edited by: Nyrram on 08/01/2005 06:34:09
I believe someone already touched on this idea, but I will suggest it again.. we don't really need any extra additions to how we collect loot. A very simple fix would solve the problem almost entirely.
There is already coding involved to distinguish loot-drop canisters from jettison canisters. For instance, jet cans have a player associated with them, while loot cans cannot have anything placed in them by any player, etc. So, it should theoretically be possible to increase the range of manipulation for loot drop canisters considerably. (In beta, canister range was what, 50km I think.. or was it more like 15km, I've slept since then)
All we need to do is increase the range significantly for loot canisters only, leaving player-jettisoned cans at 1500m or possibly a tiny bit more. (3km would probably be more appropriate for player-jet cans) And by significantly, I mean to at 15km or even more.
In addition, a skill to affect the range at which you can loot all canisters, including jet cans, would be lovely. 10% range per level or even just 5% would help... call it 'canister manipulation' or something... make it high rank with high prereq if there is concern of abuse.
Looting our battlefield should take only a few minutes at most. (For those in bships, a little strategy would still be required, bm a few cans that are 30km or so apart, warp in, collect your 15km "bubble" of cans, warp out, repeat)
Loot-drop canisters represent the 'corpses' of our NPC targets. in no other MMORPG that I know of does it take so long to loot a corpse. in some games, looting is even automatic! That is, you 'find' things in the corpse automatically, or can be set up at least to 'autoloot'. In most games, a corpse is dropped, but it takes roughly 15 seconds to run to a corpse, open it, and and do whatever is necessary to loot it. (provided you take everything... pick-and-choose looting is always slower)
There is only one problem that arises from making loot-drop canisters easier to loot, and that is 'ownership' of the canister. Most games have flags that tell which character (or group/gang/party/wtfever) of characters has loot rights on that corpse. This prevents a "level 1" from watching a "level 50" kill the "dragon" and then running over to grab the "Dragonfang Sword of Wtfpwnage" from the freshly steaming corpse. EVE lacks this, but that makes it much more exciting, you can actually steal things in this game. It would just be easier to steal someone's loot, but I would accept that risk gladly if looting were easier for everyone.
EDIT: Realized I'm tired and hadn't made paragraphs.. and instead of periods... I had used... dot dot dot.. way... too... much...
I agree Nyrram. An increase in NPC dropped canister range would solve it, and it shouldn't be too hard to implement. Why make it complicated?
I think however that 1500m range for jettisoned ore is ok. Better not increase this to much since you can use this range when mining to container to increase your range of your miners.
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Gyce
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Posted - 2005.02.07 01:43:00 -
[285]
Can Magnet
10-30km
anchoring (maybe)
he he he
im really not this lazy. But sounds like someone has a problem. just something to think about.
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Tolmech
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Posted - 2005.02.11 13:38:00 -
[286]
Ok this is a fairly major departure from the game as it is but how about 'Utility' slots on the ships for equipment not to do with the general use. So that you could fit cargo scanners and 'tractor beams' Without nerfing your hard worked out setup, or a 2nd drone bay for salavage drones.
Just think of the reduced load on the databases as all that spacejunk is 'slurped' up and reprocessed
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BaJaiah
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Posted - 2005.02.16 15:18:00 -
[287]
Hmm - this thread have become quite a whishlist - but we were asked for why looting should be made easier. So heres my point of view:
Looting have become a major timesink - especially in the deadspace multilevel missions. If you don't wanna spend an hour or more warping 'n gating or half an hour cleaning up after you (for those who don't know you can bookmark the cans and warp directly to em after you complete the mission).
Now i don't know if its intended that we should spend half our gaming time moving towards can's or just leave em be. But i must say it's not the most interresting part of the game...
Now i realize it might be there for balance but what i'd personally would like to see is that the drops gets radically changed
Firstly change lootdrops to a can called "[ship-type] wreck" and make it contain some of the materials that has gone into producing the ship (minerals and possible tech 2 items).
Secondly stop dropping basic stuff entirely. If theres a named module-drop it should again be something that the destroyed whip would have fitted or transported. Drop these modules/cargos in seperate cans called "[shiptype] loot"
Now we would be down to only looking for a few loot-cans or go get some minerals etc from the wrecks. This has 4 major advantages IMHO. The players only going for possible mods whould have a much easier time (scooping fewer cans). The players going for the lot of it would have a much easier time after looting/salvaging as their recycling ques would be much much shorter. This would again lessen server-strain... And finally manufactoring of basic items would get a boost - if the blueprints are around...
Apart from that I generally like most of the ideas posted here - my priority is as follows:
[list=Looting whishlist]
STOP the bumping and get the physics straight. My BS should not bounce of an unanchored can... 
Scoop to cargohold - as part of dial menu. Should work out of range so you approach the loot and scoop it if you are not in range
Increase scooping range - possibly dependent on "Salvaging" skill
"Material teleportation device" high-slot module in various sizes. Scoops targeted can - but with much greater range*
"Localized blackhole field" high/med-slot module in various sizes. Will make all unanchored cans in range move towards you as long as it is active (possible skills here as well)
"Tractor beam" high-slot module in various sizes. Like the LBF^ - but only works on target items*
[/list=Looting whishlist]
*These really would only be useable if the targeting time of cans went down considerably. I fail to understand why it's that long anyway ?
Well - that was my 2 isk
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.23 08:33:00 -
[288]
Why simple you've now made ships so slow doing anything is tedious especially travel etc, one major reason for the wide spread use of bookmarks.
Cans is just a part of it.
IMHO nothin and his grannie should move slower than 300ms, as per olden times when things used to move alot faster.
There's many aspects of the game that add tedium rather than enjoyment to the game and overall detract from it.
Several core elements of the games design that never really got sorted out properly in beta etc that need some loving.
How poeple get around, implant use, the market and it being open for exploitation and over heating on T2 items pushing the majority of their use for mainstream out of proper useage.
It would be nice to see many of these areas discussed and addressed.
As far as cans go yes it would be nice to see a method of faster can collection, simple sollution of course is to simply put ship movement speed at a sensible rate, not as from here to senility as is now. heh
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.02.23 21:15:00 -
[289]
Any reply from a dev as to which ideas here would be considered now that the thread is stickied?
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Vashy Stampede
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Posted - 2005.02.23 22:06:00 -
[290]
Some mod/admin response would be nice. Seems a bit pointless otherwise.
The best things in life aren't things. |
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SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2005.02.24 06:00:00 -
[291]
I would like to suggest that the distance that load/unloading cargo cans is allowed be increased from 1500m to 5000m. As it is now realism is not a plus when compared to smoother gameplay which would result with increased load/unload distances.
What normally occurs now when picking up loot from cans is my indy:
1) crashes into the can coming to complete stop adding DELAY
2) overshoots the can by more than 1500m resulting in a DELAY
3) arcs so majastically close to the can but ends up overshooting cargo can resulting in DELAY
My indy starting ... stopping .... over shooting ... stopping ... starting ......etc etc.. beginning to see the common theme here?
Well its "DELAY"!!!!!
seriously this slow down in the game does not add to the experience, does not feel real when my ship "bounces" backward off a can or when it zooms past it cause the "pilot ???" was too stupid to slow upon approach.
thinking of this alot while gathering thousands of cans lately and believe that a distance of 5000m would allow SMOOTH flight whilst out performing one of eves less glamorous tasks. And a SMOOTH flight isn't ever a bad thing now is it?
I mean if a simple little change can make eve a more enjoyable experience and it really has no impact on game dynamics or game balance then doesn't it deserve serious consideration? |
ElfeGER
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Posted - 2005.02.24 11:05:00 -
[292]
- increase the pickup range to 2000m (helps the bumping)
- drones are useless (you need an industrial to collect loot=no drone bays)
- simply fill up containers that exist an don't create new ones for every ship
- some sort of tracktor beam/magnet (should have some sort of exponential speed so container from 10km and 150km arrive in a reasonable time, it should work without locking the container and does not move containers that are locked by any ship so miners can hold their containers in place)
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