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Naglfar, Captial Projectile Turrets and Citadel Torpedos

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Arramis Minmatar ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2009.05.04 20:23:00 - [511] Originally by: Incantare It makes sense for it to have less tank than the Phoenix because it has more gank. Look at it this way: with 6 mids it has a better burst tank than a moros fitting one damage mod or a rev fitting two. At the same time it can fit for full damage at the cost of sustainability. Looks good to me. NOT ENOUGH CPU TO FIT FULL DAMAGE M8 Manelele`s expresia clara a prostiei si inculturii romanesti.
Ragel Tropxe The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.04 20:26:00 - [512] looks good to me too. Able to fit a capital shield OR armour tank. Ref "less tank than a Phoenix" - most Phoenixes have a cap recharger II in the last mid slot. All this does is trf that spare cap mod into a low slot (another PDS II or something). The tank will not be quite as strong as a dedicated 7 slot tanker - but to make up for that it gains 1 more slot than other Dreads..seems reasonable I think the CPU still looks very tight for shield tank, but all in all a very promising step forward.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.04 20:27:00 - [513] that's a sweet ass troll Chronotis
Linas IV	Posted - 2009.05.04 20:28:00 - [514] In my Eyes this "Fix" look Awesome! A little tweak to CitadelTorp. Explo-Vel. and its Perfect! When can we expect it to hit TQ? ^^
Areo Hotah Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.05.04 20:41:00 - [515] I do not want a capital shield tank. Having to train dual weapons and the more skill intensive shield tank is not acceptable.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:02:00 - [516] CCP Chronotis since we are messing around with citadel torps can we finally change them so they can hit pos mods correctly? The explosion radius is 1000m and pos modules are 400m or smaller so you are atmost doing 40% damage to a large gun/ecm battery/cyno jammer etc. And this really needs to change. The explosion velocity is a bit of an issue while in siege because you can't hit moving carriers/motherships/titans at all maybe 5-10% damage at best.
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:25:00 - [517] Edited by: VoiceInTheDesert on 04/05/2009 21:24:57 Can we please get a dev response regarding citadel torps? Do you guys actually think that the current explosion velocity is ok? I disagree completely, but I'm curious why you haven't even at least mentioned it yet....
BCE 3AHRTO GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:35:00 - [518] because of the explosion radius (well and lock time) i never bother shooting pos modules in a phoenix(shhh, don't tell brennah), please fix this!
Ound	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:42:00 - [519] Edited by: Ound on 04/05/2009 21:43:49 Wow, cool now I just have to train Tactical Shield Manipulation V , Shield Compensation , Shield Compensation Resists.. cool stuff. thanks. So you can just throw out Citadel torps and Capital armor rep skills.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:45:00 - [520] Very good proposal on my eyes.

Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:46:00 - [521] Originally by: prefectro Originally by: Seishi Maru Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/05/2009 15:01:18 Originally by: prefectro Edited by: prefectro on 04/05/2009 14:18:12 Originally by: Shadow Devourer Everything worth saying already has. Now we need to see some dev comments. QFT 100 million isk Chronotis is not even reading this anymore (I doubt he read past the 3rd page). Enough with the chit chat, I want to see what CCP thinks (based on the responses) I think YOU shoudl shut up. Since obviously YOU had not read it past page 3 sicne CCP Shronotis has posted far later than page 3 and answering direct questions made far later than that. So obviously you are the one that is failing here. Btw you can send the isk for this char... You need to chill the hell out noob. You are goin to start popping zits soon. And finally the response I was looking for from CCP, a vast improvement over the OG OP. youa re the one too noob on basic human communication that was unable to read whole thread then accuse CCP of doing what in fact You have done! You failed! You got owned in all levels.. so you are the noob.
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:47:00 - [522] CCP Chronotis, I approve. Might still be a tad short on CPU with the extra slot, but I bet I can make it fit somehow. And to all you naysayers, Minmatar caps were meant to be shield tanked to begin with - they were just crippled with terrible CPU and slot layouts. I would much prefer to see more shield tanking ships, quit moaning for moar armor. A bit of an increase to torp exp velocity would be icing on the cake, but I for one am content.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:52:00 - [523] The best part is the 6/6 slot layout still allows you to armor tank with 1 repairer as people used to do. So now we have a really flexible dread. I think its nearly perfect. Not too good like the revelation but certainly a GOOD ship
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:02:00 - [524] Edited by: Ecky X on 04/05/2009 22:05:16 Just have to say, Chronotis, you've made my day, and you're now on my list for christmas cards. EDIT: So how about those shield transporters?
To mare	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:13:00 - [525] seems good on the paper (even if its not what most of us wanted) need to try it now. powergrid its fine even for the new arties + 1 armor repairer it a bit lacking on che CPU side so while you are at it a +170 instead of a +150 would be perfect just to avoid future whinage on its cpu.
To mare	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:16:00 - [526] oh another question: the rework on arties doesent mean we gonna get our clip size halved right?
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:31:00 - [527] Originally by: To mare it a bit lacking on che CPU side so while you are at it a +170 instead of a +150 would be perfect just to avoid future whinage on its cpu. Sounds right. Using faction boost amps and a named damage control, I'm still 165 CPU short. To fit T2 boost amps you need a 5% CPU implant. [Naglfar, New Setup 1] Internal Force Field Array I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Capital Shield Booster I Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:40:00 - [528] Originally by: CCP Chronotis * the model has been fixed and rotated on its axis 90 degrees so is horizontal now. u bastards. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
1600 RT	Posted - 2009.05.04 23:10:00 - [529] Originally by: Ecky X Originally by: To mare it a bit lacking on che CPU side so while you are at it a +170 instead of a +150 would be perfect just to avoid future whinage on its cpu. Sounds right. Using faction boost amps and a named damage control, I'm still 165 CPU short. To fit T2 boost amps you need a 5% CPU implant. [Naglfar, New Setup 1] Internal Force Field Array I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Capital Shield Booster I Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 2 ballistic control system on unbonused torp sound wrong to me this is what i came up with a fast eft warrioring session: Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Sensor Booster II Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I this fit require 1070 CPU new nag will have 1062.5, could replace a boost amp for another hardener and make everything fit. its ok just a bit tight +20 base CPU would make it perfect allowing to replace those 2 CPR with 2 PDS for less cap stability but more ehp and burst tank.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.04 23:21:00 - [530] Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Ecky X Originally by: To mare it a bit lacking on che CPU side so while you are at it a +170 instead of a +150 would be perfect just to avoid future whinage on its cpu. Sounds right. Using faction boost amps and a named damage control, I'm still 165 CPU short. To fit T2 boost amps you need a 5% CPU implant. [Naglfar, New Setup 1] Internal Force Field Array I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Capital Shield Booster I Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 2 ballistic control system on unbonused torp sound wrong to me this is what i came up with a fast eft warrioring session: Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Sensor Booster II Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I this fit require 1070 CPU new nag will have 1062.5, could replace a boost amp for another hardener and make everything fit. its ok just a bit tight +20 base CPU would make it perfect allowing to replace those 2 CPR with 2 PDS for less cap stability but more ehp and burst tank. Both of these fits are terrible please dont pollute the CCP Devs with this crap.

Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:04:00 - [531] Hows about this: [Naglfar, sniggnaught] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Siege Module I Projectile Locus Coordinator II Projectile Locus Coordinator II Core Defence Field Extender I Shield-variant of the standard-issue Sniggnaught,doesn't fit now but should fit nicely post-patch.
maya ibuki2 THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:23:00 - [532] nice one on the second suggestion replacing and augmenting the first chronitis. this is, to my mind, gonna make the naglfar far more viable as a ship in general. obviously, as you said yourself, its a quickfix to plug a hole, but itll do untill this almost mythical cap review ^.^ maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type
Graalum Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:40:00 - [533] Originally by: isdisco3 Edited by: isdisco3 on 04/05/2009 20:13:03 its still going to be insta-primary in every fleet fight, and its still going to die horribly. if your fc is primarying naglfars in a cap fight you've already lost
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:49:00 - [534] Originally by: Graalum if your fc is primarying naglfars in a cap fight you've already lost Not sure why you'd say that - I hear (from very competent and skilled capital FCs) that it's much faster to take a Nag down from full shields than a Phoenix from half, and similarly for Niddy/Chimera. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Thercon Jair Minmatar Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.05.05 02:00:00 - [535] That's a nice change. I really do believe minmatar capitals should be shieldtanked (or at least possible to do it well). It will give a nice 50/50 split between capital armor and shield tanks, adding diversity. That is, if they also decide to change the Nidhoggur back to its previous layout, and then add some CPU. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!
prefectro Minmatar Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.05.05 02:10:00 - [536] Edited by: prefectro on 05/05/2009 02:13:50 Well, an extra 19 days to fit the Capital Shield Booster. 27 days to be at a proper level. I guess I am used to that. I am Minmatar. It is worth it though compared to what we have now and it warms my heart to see that CCP finally did something for the sexiest dread in the game.
Marcellus Corteaz Alt Corp	Posted - 2009.05.05 02:37:00 - [537] I'm glad to see you guys aren't clinging to the whole "versatile" shtick like it's some sort of security blanket.........ahahaha, who am I kidding? 27 1/2 days to a Rev. Enjoy having what is still the worst dread.
Sexorella hotz Pyre of Gods	Posted - 2009.05.05 02:45:00 - [538] Quick question with all these people throwing CPR IIs around on the fits. Is that actually viable considering each one reduces your shield boost amount?
Aston Vette	Posted - 2009.05.05 02:52:00 - [539] Ok, so I know this is going to be a slight bit off topic, but you asked for feedback and you brought up the "long term" stuff so here is my suggestion: Citadel Cruise Launchers. Then the Caldari and (to a lesser extent) Minmatar dreads would have a) more fitting variation possible, b) long and short range weapons and the trade-offs that go with them.
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.05 03:28:00 - [540] You're probably not going to find a better option than this that satisfies most people, very nicely done. It definetely feels very right with the projectile biased bonuses. I'm a little concerned that the +1 med slot shield tank turns out verging on overpowered, and therefore pretty much forces armour tankers to reskill (although granted they're not losing anything over today's Nag if they do stick with armour). Here's a rough look at potential fits: I'm comparing: [Naglfar, Armor 1 Dmg 1 Range] Capital Armor Repairer I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II * 2 Energized Regenerative Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Cap Recharger II * 3 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Invulnerability Field II Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL * 2 Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I * 2 Siege Module I Trimark Armor Pump I * 3 2.14mil effective HP (by EFT's method) +112 cap/sec (almost comparable with normal Rev/Moros fits) [Naglfar, Shield 3 Dmg] Damage Control II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I * 2 Gyrostabilizer II * 3 Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II * 2 Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL * 2 Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I * 2 Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I * 3 2.31mil effective HP (by EFT's method) +100 cap/sec (lowish but acceptable) 2 Dmg Mod Shield tanker (PDU2s): 2.46mil effective HP (by EFT's method) +100 cap/sec (lowish but acceptable) That's some pretty awesome shield tanking, the 6th slot makes a big, big difference. Maybe the CPU should be toned down just slightly to give it issues shield tanking well. Then again if it is overpowered I struggle to see which other race has anything really to complain about now. They all have their sweetspots. With those ultra-fast torps a Phoenix can use 2 damage mods and still have a nearly 2.7mil effective HP (+ burst) tank, as long as it's prepared to accept the cut off. The Rev is still the Rev, most dependable damage dealer on the field. Moros still has it's imba-drones. Most of all there's no obvious primary now (regardless of whether you thought it was Nags or Revs before) and is it still smart to leave the Phoenixes til last? I guess mostly I'm saying if any Nag pilot is still complaining about the split weapon system they need their head checked Proof it can work, and the Nag still has flavah. (There's something kinky about packing ten plus different ammo types into the hold that I might have missed if it became yet-another-boring-three-turret dread.) Those without shield skills will come off worst, but in truth capital shield tanking is not very skill intensive and armour does still work just about. And, hey you can drop a torp launcher for a cyno mod, or even a shield transporter etc.. Flexibility like that is worth all this extra skilling and is what I feel many Minmatar ships are about. So on balance big thumbs up (I'm still perplexed where the hordes of Matari shield tanking advocates came from!). _



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