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Naglfar, Captial Projectile Turrets and Citadel Torpedos

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Professor Dumbledore Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.29 21:52:00 - [121] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Gloria Lewis Originally by: Tarminic My Suggestion, Very Simple: 1. Two turrets, two launchers 2. Remove 1 high, Remove 1 low 3. Add 2 mids 4. Two projectile bonuses My suggestion of 3 turrets, 3 launchers is better; not forcing the pilot to dual train Two turrets. base 50% ship bonus. 5% damage 7.5% ROF bonus/level. Minus one high, plus one low. Adjust powergrid and CPU to apply. 4/5/7, Leaves one high for a utility slot (Surprisingly useful), Gives enough lowslots for a real tank + damage mods. Hell you could even remove a mid. No modifications to the model. you idea has legs but it needs 6 mids not 7 lows its a shield tanker not armor. Also no other Dread gets a utility high why should the nag be any different.
Gloria Lewis Caldari lolpatrol B-D	Posted - 2009.04.29 21:58:00 - [122] Originally by: Professor Dumbledore you idea has legs but it needs 6 mids not 7 lows its a shield tanker not armor. Also no other Dread gets a utility high why should the nag be any different. So it can remote rep the other dreadnaughts... ...it's in siege with yeah give it 3 guns
Espoir Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.04.29 21:59:00 - [123] Only thing I'd like to see is: Turret only. In my opinion on such a vessel a split setup is very ugly. When I think about how much SP you need to fly a phoon really good... the thing with damage mods was already mentioned. I mean why not turrets only? Caldari has missiles. Gallente drones and Amarr lasers. Please don't always stick to the minmatar as a race which can't decide whether their ship shall fire missile/turrets and armor/shield tank ;)
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:00:00 - [124] Just man up and redo the Naglfar model to have three turrets, and ditch the torpedoes. It's not rocket science.
Gloria Lewis Caldari lolpatrol B-D	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:02:00 - [125] Originally by: Hertford Just man up and redo the Naglfar model to have three turrets, and ditch the torpedoes. It's not rocket science. Hey an hour spent on modelling is an hour away from making walking-in-stations
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:04:00 - [126] I realize it isn't common practice, but I would like the devs to point out where this new Naglmao excels over the other dreads, and where it is intentionally inferior, when examples. Who knows? Maybe Chronotis is balancing this ship around a lol-fit.
To mare	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:08:00 - [127] 3 turrets please, its not a problem if you guys would need alot of time (i doubt it) but please do it, spilt weapons is one of the worst thing of minmatar race.
DigitalCommunist November Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:16:00 - [128] Originally by: Lumy And how would this help? If I had a dreadnought fleet, I would want them to get into position together, enter siege together, leave siege together, and if possible, return home together. If you don't see the advantages, you probably haven't spent enough time on dread ops.
ByFeve Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:21:00 - [129] This post is written by a former Phoenix pilot - former since it far to often always get the lowest damage dealer on killmail, and that it also often is there with zero damage done in a capital fight. I'm gonna suggest some different changes to brainstorm abit. 1b) Make Citadel Torpedoes do most damage among all dreads, so that the stupid low speed is compensated for an possibility for best damage dealer more often (today it's almost always only Relelations/Moros in top for a long while before the other dreads appear). And this is said even if the small speed boost would be made U mentioned since it doesn't change much. 1b) Introduce Citadel Cruise missiles as a sniper alternative, of course with lesser damage, but with higher speed. And of course in an own launcher. 2) Give Phoenix ability to fit Capital Hybrid Turrets also (that means 3 turret + 3 launcher slots) as an alternative so it can get insta-damage - even if it would mean with less damage than the other dreads when choosing this weapons. At least the Phoenix pilots can assure to get some damage on the killmails then, if they get tired on being at the bottom with no damage at all. 3) More CPU to Phoenix/Naglfar, and yet more again :)
Lumy Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:25:00 - [130] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Lumy And how would this help? If I had a dreadnought fleet, I would want them to get into position together, enter siege together, leave siege together, and if possible, return home together. If you don't see the advantages, you probably haven't spent enough time on dread ops. Enlighten me, please. Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.
xithus Titan Industries Technology Team Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:44:00 - [131] sigh...... why not just startover when you realize the design that is there sucks +1 turret -2 launchers -1 high +1 mid change missile bonus to something else interesting either proj or ship related change proj rof to proj dmg bonus enough cpu to properly shield tank it just make em a dread sized maelstrom and problem solved, alpha + burst tank would be a nice dread for cap fights and would still work just fine for pos, the only two rolls you have to make these ships work at right now. problem solved...... why is that so hard...... and this is from someone who doesnt fly them, I just want them to stop sucking so hard when they are in my fleets.
Bertn Erney The Fudge Packers Union	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:50:00 - [132] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Gloria Lewis Originally by: Tarminic My Suggestion, Very Simple: 1. Two turrets, two launchers 2. Remove 1 high, Remove 1 low 3. Add 2 mids 4. Two projectile bonuses My suggestion of 3 turrets, 3 launchers is better; not forcing the pilot to dual train Except that CCP won't redo the model, so 3 turrets is out of the question. I don't see why you people think otherwise. if that is really the only thin preventing the nag from being fixed properly then this is a sad day for minmatar pilots.
plastastic	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:51:00 - [133] needs a new slot layout 5/7/4 275m3 dronebay 125bandwith (+50m3) (so 2sets of heavy/sentry 1 set of lights) allow a fit like 2 quad siege 2 cit torps 1 siege mod cap SB Boost Amp 3 hardeners 2 sensor boosters 1 DCU 2 gyros 1 BCU 3 Rigs allow cap stability out of seige with 2 CCC and about 3-5 min in siege while your at it can you look into cit torp exp velocity, because this also affects the nag as well as the phoenix, this thread points out why they are CLEARLY broken 3.5m/s Expl velocity make for crappy torps love the lines Phoenix deals more dps out of siege to a Chimera or Thanatos moving at max speed and In fact if a carrier is flying at ~45 m/s or above, a rage siege Raven out damages it.(siege Phoenix)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:52:00 - [134] Originally by: Gloria Lewis Originally by: Professor Dumbledore you idea has legs but it needs 6 mids not 7 lows its a shield tanker not armor. Also no other Dread gets a utility high why should the nag be any different. So it can remote rep the other dreadnaughts... ...it's in siege with yeah give it 3 guns You underestimate the usefulness of a Nuet on capital ships. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Succubine Caldari Succubine Dynasty Technologies	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:52:00 - [135] In addition to those changes, my suggestions are: +1 mid slot, -1 low slot, more cpu and increase explosion velocity on citadel torps to reduce capital speed tanking. A bit more incentive for the extra training time to use the naglfails split weapons would be great too. Is there any clear situation where citadel torpedoes are better than xl guns?
5higsy Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:01:00 - [136] Edited by: 5higsy on 29/04/2009 23:02:14 Didn't read thread except op but: Remove two highslots Keep turret hardpoints/missile hardpoints the same Give nag 100% bonus to projectile/missile damage Watch as nags become good ???? Pay shigsy for epic solution
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:04:00 - [137] 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF 3/6/5 +15% cpu There I did your job for you. Support Fixing the Naglfar!
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:15:00 - [138] I'm a bit confused. Dont these numbers actually have the dps come out lower than the naglfar currently is now?
Linas IV	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:22:00 - [139] Originally by: Linas IV Edited by: Linas IV on 29/04/2009 21:12:11 And we basicly get a ~3% DPS increase on Arties (+13% Stats -10% ship bonus), a 10% Damage loss on ACs (-10% ship bonus), and a 20% DPS Increase on Citadels (+20% ship Bonus). Thats an overall about +5% DPS increase on Shortrange +11% on Longrange DPS, and the need to focus more on Citadels
Voculus The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:29:00 - [140] No disrespect intended, CCP, but this "buff" to the Naglfar is a waste. For the love of God, remove the torpedoes, give it three turret hardpoints, and be done with it already. _________________________________________________________
Kelbesque Crystalis Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:33:00 - [141] It's still easier to train up lasers and Amarr BS 5 instead of two weapon systems (+ support) and 2 tanking systems. Why would you train longer for a inferior dread? ~10% DPS bonus and a stronger dependence on missiles doesn't fix this ship. Make this ship less missile focused, fix the 5 high slot garbage (and add mid/low), and give it a clear tanking preference (swap a low/mid).
LiquidSteele Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:40:00 - [142] Originally by: Yorda 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF 3/6/5 +15% cpu There I did your job for you. ^^
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:55:00 - [143] Originally by: Yorda 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF 3/6/5 +15% cpu There I did your job for you. Lets see. Simple solution, with precedent of mechanics on the NIghtmare. Effective. Bridges in some small way the dps's issues between an arty fit Nag and a Rev when factoring reload time into long term dps. Boni and slot layout that favour shield tnaking. Dependence on multiple wep systems gone. .... Wait I'm missing something. Oh yes. It makes CCP look bad. Secretly MirrorGod. Apparently Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Soenan	Posted - 2009.04.29 23:58:00 - [144] Originally by: Voculus No disrespect intended, CCP, but this "buff" to the Naglfar is a waste. For the love of God, remove the torpedoes, give it three turret hardpoints, and be done with it already. QFT. And while you're at it add 2 more turret hardpoints to the phoenix and delete capital torps.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.04.30 00:02:00 - [145] The only way i see Citatel torps being useful is if you make them MASSIVELY more powerful against static targets thatn turrets (sicen they are trash against anything faster than a turtle). But on massive i don 't mean 10- 20 % I mean like 2 times more effective as BASE dps over turrets. THEN the citatel dreads woudl be at least the choice on ninja pos finishing work... and therefore the common hot drop bait :P
maya ibuki2 THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.04.30 00:08:00 - [146] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: Yorda 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF 3/6/5 +15% cpu There I did your job for you. Lets see. Simple solution, with precedent of mechanics on the NIghtmare. Effective. Bridges in some small way the dps's issues between an arty fit Nag and a Rev when factoring reload time into long term dps. Boni and slot layout that favour shield tnaking. Dependence on multiple wep systems gone. .... Wait I'm missing something. Oh yes. It makes CCP look bad. QFT i fly the naglfail specifically so the reds take longer to start killing the real dreadnaughts, which really shouldnt be the case. split weapon systems fail, for all the reasons cited so far. slot layout, indecision regards just what the hell the nag tanks, and utterly fail decision that half an hours modelling is not worth the effort to create a halfway decent dread are all fail as well. maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type
Lachesis Moirae Gallente Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.30 00:17:00 - [147] If you can only change one thing about the Naglfar, make it a projectile only ship. It doesn't matter if there isn't a visible hardpoint for the 3rd gun, just get rid of the split weapon system. It's been said thousands of times before, but split-weapon bonuses are terrible. You can RP it as the Matari wanting to use their racial weapon system or something. If you can change multiple things, tweak the slots/fittings in addition to the above change. After giving it 3 turret hardpoints, drop the high slots to 4 like the other dreads. At that point, either decide on if it's going to be a shield tanker or an armor tanker. If shield, give it the same layout as the Phoenix, 4/7/5. For armor, make it like the Moros, 4/5/7. You'll also need to increase base CPU if it's going to be a shield tanker (all those shield mods take up a ton of cpu), and increase the grid if it's going to be an armor tanker (dual cap reps + arties suck up a ton of grid). Those two changes are all that is needed.
Arele Minmatar The Hull Miners Union	Posted - 2009.04.30 00:18:00 - [148] Split weapon would be fine if there were also split weapon damage mods. Since there aren't, split weapon systems have no where to go from baseline but down compared to anything else.
BurntCornMuffin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 00:18:00 - [149] Originally by: Voculus No disrespect intended, CCP, but this "buff" to the Naglfar is a waste. For the love of God, remove the torpedoes, give it three turret hardpoints, and be done with it already. This would be the ideal fix, as what I'm seeing proposed doesn't cut the root of the problem. The currently proposed changes give the Nag a good alpha, but that doesn't help you in a POS shot or any activity that requires sustainable high DPS. Not only this, but in a cap fight, the missiles are wasted anyway, as primaries die too quickly for them to get there (which is why missile ships in general don't have a place in large fleet fights). The split slots mean that you still have to train double the skills, fit double the damage mods, and still come out with a lackluster ship. Removing the torpedoes and granting an extra turret would be the most effective fix for the problem. And if your artists can't be arsed to add room for a turret, then it's time to find some new artists who can.
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.04.30 00:28:00 - [150] As several on the first page said (didn't read farther), citadel torps need the explosion velocity increased to make the Nag and Phoenix truly viable. Until then, they are sill only useful against targets moving 10m/s or less.

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