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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:00:00 -
[1]
It is clear that the Naglfar is not up to scratch with the other dreadnoughts. Many of you have been rightfully vocal on the issue and we have been looking into the issue with a view to a more balanced role and performance for each of the dreadnoughts.
Most of you are acutely aware that the dreadnought's primary role is besieging starbases with a secondary role being fighting other capital ships to which they perform to a varying degree dependant on each scenario on who is being hotdropped and at what range for example.
What we hope to achieve here is a focused fix to the biggest specific issues with dreads in an upcoming patch with an acknowledgement that there are deeper issues and problems which we need to address in the long term in future releases which require more indepth changes.
So, what are we looking at changing with the Naglfar?
* Swapping the projectile rate of fire bonus for a 10% projectile damage bonus per level.
* Increasing the citadel launcher rate of fire bonus to 7.5% per level.
* Increasing the base CPU to 770 (+70)
* Decreasing the base powergrid to 560,000 (-65,000)
And what about capital projectile turrets?
The Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I will have some changes to base it of the 1400mm artillery:
* Damage multiplier increased to 12.075 (from 8.4)
* Rate of Fire decreased to 35.438 secs (from 28.688)
* Tracking Speed decreased to 0.0045 (from 0.005625)
* Optimal Range increased to 80,000m (from 64,400)
* Power need increased to 162,500mw (from 137,500)
The 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I will have similar changes made to keep the original scaling inline:
* Damage Multiplier increased to 5.39 (from 3.85)
* Rate of Fire decreased to 11.813 secs (from 8.438)
Citadel Torpedoes
We are looking at an increase to missile velocity and a proportional decrease to flight time.
* Citadel Torpedo velocity increased to 1,250 m/s (from 750)
* Citadel Torpedo flight time decreased to 54 secs (from 90)
Summary
At this point, we are gathering feedback and nothing is set in stone at all. As mentioned at the start, we realize that there are more fundamental issues with dreadnoughts and specific focuses on their anti-capital ship abilities.
Feedback is most welcome!
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Nitch Bigga
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:02:00 -
[2]
First... and WOOT
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ian666
Minmatar
Lamb Federation Navy
C0VEN
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:03:00 -
[3]
Edited by: ian666 on 29/04/2009 18:04:55
what about slot layout and citadel torpedo explosion velocity
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 29/04/2009 18:04:39
Holy crap! <3 Chronitis... it's been so long. /sobs, runs into Chronitis' arms for some lovin
-Liang
Ed: Now that I finished reading it... that looks really sexy. Are you also planning on increasing the Phoenix' torp bonus?
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Khanak Hryad
Amarr
Radioactive Battle Bunnies
The Council.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:08:00 -
[5]
wow
/* This be a sig */
Free bottle of rum to the first 3 who mod this sig!
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Chris Sandstorm
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:10:00 -
[6]
Most welcome changes. However i think a mid/low slot layout change should also be in order.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 29/04/2009 18:13:43
Fast to the pocket calculator mobile to calculate the DPS!!!
BTW seems this changes were calcualted specifically so naglfar CANNOT anymore fit 2 capital reps and arties... don 't know if this is bad.. but.. why?
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MicroWarpdrive II
Disorder.
Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:16:00 -
[8]
I have no complaints.
This looks like an awesome buff.
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Nova Satar
Annihilate.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:22:00 -
[9]
better late than never :P
Next stop...
NIDHOGGUR CENTRAL! WOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOO *pulls train chain-horn thing*
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BobbaPhett
Gallente
Annihilate.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:24:00 -
[10]
It's vertical, what more does it need
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
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MicroWarpdrive II
Disorder.
Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:25:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Nova Satar
better late than never :P
Next stop...
NIDHOGGUR CENTRAL! WOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOO *pulls train chain-horn thing*
Nova, they already fixed it duh....
THEY MADE IT ARMOR TANK
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Odhinn Vinlandii
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
What we hope to achieve here is a focused fix to the biggest specific issues with dreads in an upcoming patch with an acknowledgement that there are deeper issues and problems which we need to address in the long term in future releases which require more indepth changes.
This is what is called 'painted rust' or 'gun decking' .. a quick half ass solution to a problem while you lie to yourself that you will fix the problem properly later.
My advice to you, do it right the first time.
The biggest problem to the nag is that it takes way too much SP to fly it since the Nag is split tanking and split weapons.
Also, to keep it inline with Minmatar speed. How about halving the siege cycle and increasing the agility?
Thanks for bringing the capital projectiles in line tho!
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Jelmer
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:29:00 -
[13]
As one of those vertically inclined pilots - well, yes, the Nag is in need of some... loving. Yes, it is great to be vertical - but having to train two weapon systems, incl. ofc. supportive skills, to capital level is a pain for most. Sure, I don't care, I did it - but others will come after me.
You do not see a caldari dread with both missile and hybrid...
So, my suggestion would be - remove the missile slots and make this ship pure projectile. Thank you.
***** A noob a day takes the boredom away ***** |
Tyler
Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:31:00 -
[14]
/me looks at watch.
Oh look how late you are.
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Sanika DeCroix
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:32:00 -
[15]
just nerf all the other dreads so they suck just as bad. That's what ccp usually does :)
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Midjutetur
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jelmer
So, my suggestion would be - remove the missile slots and make this ship pure projectile. Thank you.
PLEASE
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Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar
Wolverine Solutions
Dead Mans Hand
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 29/04/2009 18:39:07
It's a start but won't solve the problem of the huge additional time sink it takes a Minmatar pilot to use the ship in combat.
Make it projectile only.
Make it three turrets and add a third turret slot to the ship model. I'm sure that is no problem for the great artists you have.
It is the only dread with a spilt weapon system, making it a punishment to train for any Minmatar pilot. It would require some real benefit compared to the other dreads considering the additional training time involved.
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Yoh Sha
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:40:00 -
[18]
This is a total crap until there be 3d turret slot on this dread. Nobody needs torpedoes, they are stupidly useless.
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isdisco3
Reaper Industries
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: isdisco3 on 29/04/2009 18:45:51
schwing. thanks, this looks fantastic.
would it be asking too much for an increase in torp explosion velocity, thereby helping one of the major problems with the phoenix and helping the nag at the same time?
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Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
* Swapping the projectile rate of fire bonus for a 10% projectile damage bonus per level.
Feedback is most welcome!
Do you realize that this actually means less DPS increase from ship bonus?
1/0.625 = 1.6x DPS
1*1.5 = 1.5x DPS
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
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Beyond Horizon
Caldari
Solar Dragons
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:46:00 -
[21]
I fly a moros, but jeez, can't you guys give naglfars ATLEAST a third turret slot?
4 would be just perfect.
I know you guys wanted to give a wide variety of options for the cap pilots out there and didnt want everything to look the same (like 3 races all having 4 turret slots).
Prolly wanted to introduce naglfar as a hybrid of turrets and missiles... or smtn...
But this is just wrong. Give 3-4 turret hardpoints, or leave missile hardpoints ALONG with turrets hardpoints
Bottom line is that this ship really needs more turret hardpoints.
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BH |
Gespenst Jager
Pumpkin Scissors
Bright Side of Death
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:46:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Citadel Torpedo velocity increased to 1,250 m/s (from 750)
At least 2,000 m/s and bonus to exposion velocity - and maybe they will start work against capital ships. If you just boost velocity, it remain anti-POS weapon. And give more low slots to Naglfar, minmatar is enemy of caldari and they must not suffer from caldari "shieldtankinpvp" curse. Or make imp set for passive-shield tank.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:48:00 -
[23]
Ok by my initial calculations the naglfar will change almost nothing. The projectiles damage increase will be 16% the change on bonus type will be -11%.
So at end a 5% damage increase on projectiles? Ok the citatels get more damage. But that perpetrate the issue with SPLIT WEAPONS DO NOT ESCALATE WELL ON GANK MODE!
It is better than the old one. But an all projectiles one (simply 2 turrets with 7.5% rof and 7.5% damage .. tempest style bonus) would be more welcome .
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Tarminic
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:51:00 -
[24]
You guys know that adding a third turret would require the entire model to be remade right? Don't count on anything getting done if your solution hinges on that.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
* Swapping the projectile rate of fire bonus for a 10% projectile damage bonus per level.
Feedback is most welcome!
Do you realize that this actually means less DPS increase from ship bonus?
1/0.625 = 1.6x DPS
1*1.5 = 1.5x DPS
Yes, consider all four weapons together. Overall, it should be a large increase to volley damage and a smaller overall increase to DPS which is the flavour we went with in the first pass.
It is very much open to further feedback though as it is understandable that many would prefer higher DPS over volley damage.
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Beyond Horizon
Caldari
Solar Dragons
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tarminic
You guys know that adding a third turret would require the entire model to be remade right? Don't count on anything getting done if your solution hinges on that.
wat?
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BH |
Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:56:00 -
[27]
What about citadel torpedoes and the problem of explosion velocity, and somewhat stupid range (I'm looking at you, Phoenix) under some circunstances? If you could split torpedoes in two classes: shor-range hight damage, long-range low damage; at least they could compete someway with moro-n-s and revelations or take part of same fleets without problems.
And for the explosion velocity (specially on siege), give a bonus to both ships please! Don't ignore this issue and fix it all at the same time.
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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:59:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Ecky X on 29/04/2009 19:02:36
I have a problem with your suggested changes. You are actually decreasing its DPS with a 10% damage bonus over a 7.5% ROF bonus, not taking clip sizes into account. Taking bonuses into account, artillery will do 8.75% more dps, closer to 10% with reloads taken into account. I don't think the cost of EMP XL is the main problem with the Naglmao, give it some punch! Citadel torpedos already do more DPS than XL Artillery, and you're swinging the bonuses even more in favor of them. What we will end up with is a dreadnaught that fits 2 torp launchers, a siege mod, and 2 capital remote reps in the highs. (exaggeration but I'm trying to push a point)
The changes to damage multiplier and ROF equate to a 16% increase in DPS, roughly, but you are taking away 7% of its artillery DPS by changing the bonuses (not taking reloads into account). 2 steps forward, 1 step back? Better than nothing I guess.
Currently, the Nag is about 225 cpu short of fitting a proper shield tank, with damage mods in the lows. 70 additional CPU is not nearly enough.
With the proposed changes, the Naglmao is far more dependent on its bonuses than the other dreads. It edges out the Moros (not counting drones) only with dread V, but with dread 4 it still does less with its 5 highslots than the Moros does with 4, never mind the Revelation, while having less tank, less cap stability, and still being unable to fit its mods without one or more co-processors AND faction mods. Giving it an additional slot to fit another cap recharger or damage mod in ADDITION to the proposed changes AND a cpu increase would still leave it subpar to the other dreads, though not laughably so.
Just my 2 cents.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.29 19:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
* Swapping the projectile rate of fire bonus for a 10% projectile damage bonus per level.
Feedback is most welcome!
Do you realize that this actually means less DPS increase from ship bonus?
1/0.625 = 1.6x DPS
1*1.5 = 1.5x DPS
Yes, consider all four weapons together. Overall, it should be a large increase to volley damage and a smaller overall increase to DPS which is the flavour we went with in the first pass.
It is very much open to further feedback though as it is understandable that many would prefer higher DPS over volley damage.
Sincirely.. how volley damage can be relevant against a capital ship after the 400% HP increase back in revelations? Not to talk anythign even about POSs....
IF dreads coudl track a bit better to hit non MWD/ABing Bss then this woudl be usefull.. but as anti pos and ati capital ship is a minor thing.
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.04.29 19:00:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Jalif on 29/04/2009 19:01:26
Why not just a Nagflar with guns? I really do not feel training the missiles too. Give it a 100% bonus to the guns like the nightmare/maurauders and further no damage bonus since it will have the effectiveness of 4 turrents already. Atleast something along that line.
+ what the guy said above.
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