[quote=Devious Relation]stuff/quote]

I'm sorry, OTEC is a player made agreement, which is a feature and a product of the EVE Online sandbox, making OTEC a feature and not a bug that needs fixing. Now go buy some shiny new T2 item and remember, when you buy T2, you're buying products that are made possible by OTEC... have a nice day, citizen.

The fact that the entire eve comminty is full of hypocrites. Well the vast majority.

This whole game is about the rich staying rich and trying to opress and keep the poor new guys poor. Its rediculious, the game should have fair oportunitys for everyone not just the long term stayin's

You should really curb the shitposting, it's unbecoming.

Let me guess, you own a tech moon?

The only reason incursions became relativly "risk free" was because of the awsome communitys made. THAT IS ALL

Let me guess, you own a tech moon?

lol no

In the early days of incursions alot of ships were lost, and once they were sussed out not many people would run with unknown fleets..... why... because of the RISK

This is less of a Technium problem and more of a moon goo problem...

I'm mining a tech moon right now. Does that make you mad?

I'm mining a tech moon right now. Does that make you mad?

Yes that means you 0.0 carebear cousins would need to find miners to gather this. I will have no problem mining the stuff but i am not paying you to be there or be blue. you are paying me!

Ahahahahaha, renters will never be relevant.

So CCP have "balanced" incursions due to "risk vs isk" or thats the stand they will take on this, not going to go into details.

I have recently just been made aware of this "O-Tec" agreement between TEST, Raiden, CFC, PL, NCDot which basicaly means, who ever owns the tec moons currently will keep them. Now this simple agreement has completely removed the risk from owning such moons and therefore needs adressing.

The only reason incursions became relativly "risk free" was because of the awsome communitys made. THAT IS ALL

Now this o-tec agreement is in place, i think that should be nuked from orbit


This agreement effects 90% of the tech moons, how are new commers, the smaller corps/alliances ment to even get started?
Its things like this that put new people off and eventualy will be the death of the game

OTEC is merely following the real world examples of production cartels like OPEC & the Medell+¡n Cartel, it's price fixing by means of distribution control and is common national and business practice, it is the way that most big businesses/ countries with rich natural resources stay on top of the pile.

The solution also follows real world examples, you can pay exorbitant prices for a controlled flow of resources, or you can engage in diplomacy, wangle deals to get access to cartel goods, if all else fails invade to get what you want. Recent history shows that military might is all to often involved in the scramble for resources in the real world, why should Eve be any different? It just so happens that OTEC probably have more military might than anybody else.

ABLOO BLOO GOONS WON AT EVE AND I'M MAD ABOUT IT.

blah blah blah, troll troll troll.

Seriously if incursinos were changed and people all got behind risk vs isk reasoning. This agreement and tech moons needs sorting

ABLOO BLOO GOONS WON AT EVE AND I'M MAD ABOUT IT.

And BTL/TDF wern't player made? Didnt stop the huge eve comminity getting behind the risk vs isk crap to get CCP to change them

I personally own 2 tech moons, all protected under the OTEC agreement, so even if im not online thousands of people will come and defend my personal ISK fountain. I bet that makes you cry into your pillow at night.

Incursions should be totally removed from hisec, you should feel glad we let you keep them at all.

Agreed you guys did good, but you should be able to be challenged in game, otherwise boring it will become.

Tal

Well renters as far as i knew were never given high end goodies.

Agreed you guys did good, but you should be able to be challenged in game, otherwise boring it will become.

Tal

Cmon, lets be serious, we all know its broken. Fix the UI then fix the game, instead of working on ship skins etc

Whats broken about the UI?

Few things, firstly i am shocked, amazed and led to believe you are lieing about the tech moon thing, as your alliance is FA. Well renters as far as i knew were never given high end goodies.

Secondly "you should feel glad we let you keep them at all" now if your not a CCP employee your indocating your some kinda of forum moaner who moaned so hard they were nerfed, and therefor no better then myself

Third and finally, cmon a pillow? I sleep upside down swinging from the rafters

How is ANY up comming alliance even ment to get close to challenging the tech holding large established alliances??

The same was said of the NC. Where are they now? Oh right, they're gone because some people weren't whiny bitches and actually did something about them.

Ok Lord, how are you supposed to tackle a enemy with UNLIMITED ISK and funding? please educate us all

Ok Lord, how are you supposed to tackle a enemy with UNLIMITED ISK and funding? please educate us all

By realizing that "unlimited isk" isn't an "I win" button. The NC had "unlimited isk" for a long, long time, and they're gone.

Unlimited ISK is a Iwin button, and the longer the game stays as it is the worse the situation becomes. The only hope for anyone is that large alliances implode. It shouldnt be like this

Ok Lord, how are you supposed to tackle a enemy with UNLIMITED ISK and funding? please educate us all

I am unsure of the exact way the NC fell so cannot get into details.

But I think its fairly safe to assume it was because of a alliance between other alliances with alot of ISK, moms and titans which took them down. Reitterating the fact, there comes a tiem when people realise, join a established alliance or move on

Hey, so, why are you so hell-bent on taking space in the north, anyways?

Did it for 4 years in venal when the NC, BoB ASCN ect were at the hight of their power. We were the Afghanistan of EVE, a place where the superpowers of their day sent their fleets to die.

Im not interested in taking any space what so ever, I'm actualy comming to the end of my "eve life" i think. Getting so bored of the same stuff over and over. I am meerly interested in firstly, making the "pubbies" masses aweare of this NTEC agreement, and secondly putting it on the table that Moon goo is far more game breaking than incursions ever were.

There's absolutely no game mechanic which is in the game right now, which is stopping anyone from toppling the CFC off of tech, it's just a matter of organization and coordination.

Except Sov and the Jump mechanics.

OTEC is merely following the real world examples of production cartels like OPEC & the Medell+¡n Cartel, it's price fixing by means of distribution control and is common national and business practice, it is the way that most big businesses/ countries with rich natural resources stay on top of the pile.

The solution also follows real world examples, you can pay exorbitant prices for a controlled flow of resources, or you can engage in diplomacy, wangle deals to get access to cartel goods, if all else fails invade to get what you want. Recent history shows that military might is all to often involved in the scramble for resources in the real world, why should Eve be any different? It just so happens that OTEC probably have more military might than anybody else.

So I hear timezone wars are a thing in the real world.

Oh, I see, we hold sov purely because of ... timezones.

Nerf timezones.

The fact that the entire eve comminty is full of hypocrites. Well the vast majority.

This whole game is about the rich staying rich and trying to opress and keep the poor new guys poor. Its rediculious, the game should have fair oportunitys for everyone not just the long term stayin's

Pretty sure the old Incursion system was a great example of this, careful throwing that word "hypocrite" around, might just rebound and land on you m8.

Yeah, it's just like the real world.

In the real world, when an oil rig is under attack, a "reinforce timer" goes up after it goes into structure and the insurgents have to wait for the current owners to show up before they can resume fire.

Just ask the United States in Iraq. I'm pretty sure that is how it works.

Also, the entire army of a country can gather in one place, click their heals together, and be half way around the world in an instant. Or something.

And all the oil is just concentrated in the Middle East to... well, it really isn't. Only about 30% of total oil production is in the Middle East. So I guess that is wrong to.

In the real world an oil rig is not protected by a sizeable forcefield and multiple weapons platforms, therefore your point is moot.

As for your "clicking heels together" comment, most modern military forces can be on the scene of a conflict within 24 hours, compared to 50 years ago that is indeed pretty much instantaneous deployment. Seeing as Eve is set 20 odd thousand years in the future it is not inconceivable that the ability to project force in a lesser time period would be possible, regardless of distance.

Nowhere did I mention the middle east and specifically Iraq. Membership of OPEC is not restricted to countries in the middle east, here's a list of members for you.

Member Countries of OPEC
Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Venezuela

If anything the Arabic countries are not all powerful in OPEC, there's a fair few African countries in the list and some Central American ones to. The 30% of oil production that the middle east holds is a damn big chunk of current production, the fact that it's relatively easy to get to compared to say the Shale fields in North America makes it in effect an even bigger chunk simply because of ease of access.

I was merely comparing OTEC to real world Cartels, I was not stating that the reality of real world conflict = the reality of eve conflict.

This OTEC agreement actualy governs 90% of the TECH moons..... 90%

In what way, incursions were open to EVERY player, the only limitations were player created communitys which rules pretty much were, grief a fleet and your out of the community. So yeah hardly eliete rich peoples trying to keep the new guy poor. BTL/CID and TDF were the most welcoming un judgemental communitys that ive seen ina while on eve. Certainly alot less ahrsh then ANY 0.0 corporation/community

Then it's a pretty good comparison, the OPEC agreement actually governs 79% of the worlds oil production as of 2010, for a real world example of the sort of power that a cartel of this magnitude wields you only need to look at the oil crisis of the early 1970s.
Cartels holding the rest of humanity to ransom is nothing new.

right, if you aren't in shinies, gtfo, that's pretty "open" to new players

In the real world an oil rig is not protected by a sizeable forcefield and multiple weapons platforms, therefore your point is moot.

As for your "clicking heels together" comment, most modern military forces can be on the scene of a conflict within 24 hours, compared to 50 years ago that is indeed pretty much instantaneous deployment. Seeing as Eve is set 20 odd thousand years in the future it is not inconceivable that the ability to project force in a lesser time period would be possible, regardless of distance.

Nowhere did I mention the middle east and specifically Iraq. Membership of OPEC is not restricted to countries in the middle east, here's a list of members for you.

Member Countries of OPEC
Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Venezuela

If anything the Arabic countries are not all powerful in OPEC, there's a fair few African countries in the list and some Central American ones to. The 30% of oil production that the middle east holds is a damn big chunk of current production, the fact that it's relatively easy to get to compared to say the Shale fields in North America makes it in effect an even bigger chunk simply because of ease of access.

I was merely comparing OTEC to real world Cartels, I was not stating that the reality of real world conflict = the reality of eve conflict.

1.So you are saying if force fields are developed in RL they will have "reinforcement timers" on them? Seriously?

2.Last time I checked the US has bases all around the world so that it can get a very small fraction of it's firepower anywhere in the world in 24 hours. That is because that small fraction of it's firepower was already bases 90% of the way there.

These strategic bases are a division of forces that is necessary for the US to have that response time. This is not in anyway present in Eve thanks to Jump Drive tardism. Thank you for further proving my point.

3.All the moons ARE almost entirely in one place which is what makes OPEC not at all like stupid tech monopoly. Also, OPEC is not "almost all oil production" either. Again, you are just making stuff up.

Real life != a game.


What you actually mean to say is that these strategic bases aren't replicated in EVE because of the SOV system, not because of the jump drives. Unless you mean to say that when we derp around with 1000 subcaps, they're all magically moved around by jumpdrives instead of, oh I dunno, using gates.


http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/330.htm

Goon are such liars.

I know the truth hurts, and being in denial makes the pain go away. But push through it, it'll get better soon!

Production is reserves now, zippy? Not that OPEC's published reserves are actually true, they are not.

Production is reserves now, zippy? Not that OPEC's published reserves are actually true, they are not.

Tech moons have plenty of risk. It's the players' resilience that led to them having a secure control of these moons. Don't like it? Supercap blob them, then.

0.0 is pretty much the biggest carebear place around currently.
The big alliances have no reason to fight each other and have literally zero risk within their own territory that they barely have to bother defending.

Either way, moon mining is rather imbalanced in the way the 0.0 alliances are currently working.
And the more time it takes to fix this how harder it will be to even challenge these alliances.

Let's ask White Noise how they feel about risk. Or the NC. Or CVA. Or ev0ke. Or any alliance which is in, or has been in nullsec the last 5 years.

Don't say we didn't warn you.

or NC who got their ass kicked in their own hubris?
I specifically meant the big alliances that haven't pissed of everyone (except the goons because they can do that and get away scot free) and got enough fire-power to make themselves an unattractive target.

Yes, the NC. The coalition where a majority of EVE said "the NC is killing eve", because the NC was so huge and had "so much firepower to make themselves an unattractive target". That NC.

Oh snap!

The Mittani lobbied heavily during CSM6 for the Technetium situation to be rebalanced. Unfortunately, due to his non-participation in CSM7 he has not been able to keep up this pressure and get the issue fixed, with the end result that OTEC has emerged to exploit the system for all its worth.

Be careful what you wish for in future.

In that case it is a pitty what happened at fan fest did. CCP defiantly need constant pressure into balancing this and as soon as possible.

The guys quoting old alliance names and guys who have left 0.0. There were, in many cases, mittogating circumstances. High position deals, mergers as well as the not so honest things that have gone on. After all didnt a portion of WI join goons HERP DA DERRP

Someone joked before, "should we all just be reset into rookie ships with no ISK" thats looking more and more like a good idea.

dont worry about us, we always find something to keep us entertained

Sadly the OP is right... the ONE thing people INSIDE the game could do as a group and be good at got nerfed..

Goons < outside of eve group
TEST < alot of outside of eve people
O snap thats the MAIN power in nulll and it did not come from building inside the game but from outside...

Sorry tech moons have no current risk, for the 15bill/month it makes the risk is nill and CCP needs to either rollback the changes to incrusions OR nerf the **** out of moons in general.

Sorry tech moons have no current risk

CCP needs to either rollback the changes to incrusions

OR nerf the **** out of moons in general.

Welcome to eve you ******* ***** **** like this is what makes this game epic. Players controlling the game is why I play this. Go hang yourself OP.

CCP needs to either rollback the changes to incrusions OR nerf the **** out of moons in general.

You can take a tech moon. How do you prevent a group from running incursions in hisec?

So CCP have "balanced" incursions due to "risk vs isk" or thats the stand they will take on this, not going to go into details.

I have recently just been made aware of this "O-Tec" agreement between TEST, Raiden, CFC, PL, NCDot which basicaly means, who ever owns the tec moons currently will keep them. Now this simple agreement has completely removed the risk from owning such moons and therefore needs adressing.

The only reason incursions became relativly "risk free" was because of the awsome communitys made. THAT IS ALL

Now this o-tec agreement is in place, i think that should be nuked from orbit


This agreement effects 90% of the tech moons, how are new commers, the smaller corps/alliances ment to even get started?
Its things like this that put new people off and eventualy will be the death of the game

Welcome to eve you ******* ***** **** like this is what makes this game epic. Players controlling the game is why I play this. Go hang yourself OP.

You can take a tech moon. How do you prevent a group from running incursions in hisec?

In a year or two you might be in a position to do something about it.

Reaperswarm

It's time to downgrade from Rifters

NULL SEC IS THE NEW HIGH SEC!!! NOBODY FIGHTS DOWN THERE AT ALL, MOONS ARE ALL OWNED BY BIG ALLIANCES AND THEY AGREE TO NOT ENGAGE EACH OTHER IN COMBAT EXCEPT FOR VERBAL SPARS!

REMOVE MOONS FROM NULL, PLACE THEM IN HIGH! EVERYBODY WINS!

And how do you spose the average joe does that then?......... exactly its not possible for anyone without a huge alliance and massive funding - like a tech moon or 2 - to even consider doing so

The game probubly wont last another 2 years.

You yourself mentioned "Risk vs Reward" moon mineing in its current state, especialy with the OTEC agreement has no risk. Therfore needs addressing.

First off, it's mining. You don't need the E there(among other spelling mistakes). Secondly, if you look through the forums starting in 2003 you will find a ******** amount of posts about how EVE won't last another two years. Finally, the OTEC agreement does not remove risk. That would be like saying if you form an alliance you are removing risk from the game.

Are you part of this OTEC agreement? No. Therefore(note the spelling)you are a potential risk to their moon mining. Of course in reality you are not because you won't do anything about it other than whine on the forums but hopefully you can understand the point?

Another thing, just because there's an otec agreement today doesn't mean it'll be there tomorrow. People never ever ever ever ever backstab other players/corps/alliances in eve. It NEVER happens. Seriously, not even once.

Can you and your group of 2 friends do something about the tech moons? So get more friends. The way you whine about it without offering any reasonable solution is what's annoying.

I'm not against some rational changes to the way moon minerals are harvested. Neither is CCP if you believe soundwave at fanfest.

Seeing that you will probably never understand, I leave you with this. Shut up woman get on my horse

Moon Goo offers these large alliances the ISK required to actualy gain and keep numbers. Even actualy get people pvping.

At the end of the day lets be honest, who will fit a real pvpship more then once a day, go die, get podded then reship and go back for more if they arnt being offer'd some part of that honey pot?

Come on, guys, stop being unfair. This neutral alt is clearly correct, there is simply no way for a group of low-skill, isk-starved new players in lowsec to grow and survive long enough to challenge an established alliance. I mean, it's just impossible, no one has ever done it. And if you inadvertently pissed off a huge coalition like the CFC, and they decide that they want you dead? Well, you're dead, there's no way you could survive if a huge ******* corp was trying to destroy you, it's impossible. They would smear you across their windshield like the bugs you are. And let's say you DID survive, somehow, maybe even made a couple of friends to form an alliance with. It's not like you could actually WIN! I mean, a huge alliance like that in practically invincible, it would take forever. Yeah, that's it, you'd need a Forever War, you know how hard that would be?

And that's why there are no goons in Eve.

Goons are a group formed outside of eve via SA forums which you have to pay $10 to join.

The only way CFC or any of the large powerhouses that are currently in existance will be knocked off thier perch is by internal issues, nothing anyone outside the diplomats/alliance highbee's can perform

Goons/CFC aren't invincible just because a portion of us are members of the SA forums. And, again, if you took your sentence and replace CFC with NC, BOB, etc, you'd end up with exactly the same thing people were saying a few years ago, and that's been proven wrong.

CFC'll be killed off at some point in the future as well, the question is just when, and by whom.

I'm just going to point out that we already collapsed in a flurry of trolling and recriminations, losing all our territory because our CEO got pissy. We all had to move to lowsec to lick our wounds. Now we are invincible again.

A big alliance trying to destroy us won't succeed, because we won't go away due to our ships being blown up. An internal division won't destroy us, because we won't go away due to a major setback. We won't go away as long as we're having fun.

To destroy GoonSwarm, you must destroy Eve. Our will to power will conquer anything else.

The fact that the entire eve comminty is full of hypocrites. Well the vast majority.

This whole game is about the rich staying rich and trying to opress and keep the poor new guys poor. Its rediculious, the game should have fair oportunitys for everyone not just the long term stayin's

^^ sadly i think this is the first accurate thing a goon has posted in thsi thread

Now where will 99% of the population go, to the newly formed alliance/corp who is going to offer them nothing or to the all shiney alliance/corp who has ship reimbursement, logistics, even free pvp ships.

HTFU? No ill remain squishy if i wish.

The longer the issue goes unchanged the worse it will be. The less and less likely it is that the scales can or will be tipped. The only hope i guess is that once everyone becomes blue, people will get bored.

Lets face it, Goons=Content, I only see a few other groups that produce as much content for the community to enjoy or hate.

They have no master plan, what they do have is that they take a mischievous delight in messing with people on a large scale and some particularly deviant planners that will one day do well in gov't service or banking.

Their propaganda is both amusing and effective, politics really does drive the whole game and they're good at it, and like politicians they have no morals in game, particularly when it comes to somebody else space pixels.

I've seen Goons described as Marmite, most apt.

Ork culture circulates around seemingly random violence, which dominates every aspect of their culture. However, to characterize it as evil, malicious, or racist is to ignore the fact that it is in their nature. Most competitive activities amongst fellow Orks end in death. In fact, most activities Orks engage in involve death. This may be a byproduct of the rather brutal 40K universe, however, and it is possible that behavioral conditioning of Orks could result in a more placid lifeform.


Ork behavior is dominated by the WAAAAAGH!, a gestalt psychic field they generate that affects the Ork psyche, as it allows Orks to instinctively recognize who is 'bigga N' Dead Killy' and therefore in charge, which also feeds into the physiological expressions of success. All Orks generate this field, and it grows stronger as the Orks enjoy themselves, generally while fighting. The WAAAAAGH! helps give momentum (and the name) to the Orks' planet-crushing WAAAAAGH!s. These WAAAAAGH!s are a cross between a mass migration, holy war, looting party and pub brawl, with a bit of genocide thrown in for good measure. Millions of Orks will gather together, drawn to the power of a single dominant Ork called a Warboss, who are essentially extremely successful Ork Nobs, distinguished from most Nobs thanks to their higher level of intelligence, many qualifying as geniuses even by human standards (which is not to say that Warbosses are always intelligent; some are simply too big, too green, and too strong to be resisted), though their lack of education can often lead their enemies to assume their stupidity (which is usually the last mistake they make). Once assembled into a huge mass, consisting of hundreds of millions or even billions of Orks and their countless ramshackle vehicles and spacecraft, the Orks will set off to find an enemy to fight - any enemy. Ork Waaagh!s will sweep whole planetary systems away and destroy armies and fleets in tides of bloodlust and carnage, and only once the Orks have killed every available enemy will they start to fight amongst themselves again.

Another apt analogy for Goons are the Orks from WH40K.

Nice forumalt. Also, living in 0.0 is the greatest risk you can take in EVE, people can TAKE the O-TEC moons, Every system that a Tech moon sits in is NOT highsec. If you're so pissed off about Tech prices, go kill one of the pos. The fact that you're sitting behind the highsec fence and bitching about tech moons is hilarious.

If people were pissed about Tech prices enough, they'd do something to change them. Until then, stfu. The Tech Nerf is incoming, just be patient. If you decide to quit this "game", can I has your stuff?

They're pissed because they literally can't take them, despite trying many, many time. Our logi guys are just too good, our pilots are just too ready to shoot up some -A-.

Lets face it, the game is so broken I think CCP havwe just accepted the fact it is past repair

I had fun in incursions, but to be completely frank CCP's modification were a direct nuke from orbit.
The only thing that is left now is a hollow ruin of what used to be.

This coming from a "veteran" incursion runner, FC, former BTL operator and "griefing" incursion pilot.
Hands down it was a really bad modification by CCP. I mean take a look at the incursion reports, they can only keep one of the incursions in highsec running at anytime. When there used to be 3 up earlier with 100 % blue influence.

Snap.

So quit, but before you do can I haz ur stuffs?

Oh yeah sure, just give me your home address and telephone number ill be sure to "let you have it"

...give me your home address and telephone number ill be sure to "let you have it"

So tell me again why you complain about a game that is "broken beyond repair," refuse to quit said game, and make RL threats against people who ask you to quit because you seem unhappy with the game?

Because I would consider this:

a RL personal threat.


Oh, and enjoy your ban.

So, working as intended?

competition to Goon tech moon income

When even WIDOT can tell you how dumb you are you know you're in all kinds of trouble.

I can see your happy as competition to Goon tech moon income has been removed.

Now if only they could get Goon tech moon income working as intended.

Unless, of course, it already is.

They fought for it, and defend it,. Let em have it, or take some from them. YOUR CHOICE! As to the easy and virtually RISK FREE ISK faucet that was Incursions before the "tweek", I say good riddance. To much reward for to little risk. Flooding ISK into the economy, from Incursion rewards, wasn't doing the eve economy any good.

Before you say that Tech is an ISK faucet, I want you to show me the blueprint that turns tech into ISK. Until CCP changes things, Yea, working as intended, go cry in the corner with the other forum babies, crying about Goons and tech. HTFU or GTFO, Meanwhile I'm going to invent more projectile guns to sell. Hopefully to both sides of whatever conflict is going on because IDGAF about Goons, tech, or Incursions getting nerfed.

They fought for it, and defend it,. Let em have it, or take some from them. YOUR CHOICE! As to the easy and virtually RISK FREE ISK faucet that was Incursions before the "tweek", I say good riddance. To much reward for to little risk. Flooding ISK into the economy, from Incursion rewards, wasn't doing the eve economy any good.

Before you say that Tech is an ISK faucet, I want you to show me the blueprint that turns tech into ISK. Until CCP changes things, Yea, working as intended, go cry in the corner with the other forum babies, crying about Goons and tech. HTFU or GTFO, Meanwhile I'm going to invent more projectile guns to sell. Hopefully to both sides of whatever conflict is going on because IDGAF about Goons, tech, or Incursions getting nerfed.

Are you worried your unearned wealth will be taken away?

You claim you fought hard for it, but did you really? And was that fight REALLY risky enough to justify your reward?

I say that you DID NOT earn that much wealth, and it should be removed TODAY.

About 1/4 your current tech moon income would be fair, I think.

So CCP have "balanced" incursions due to "risk vs isk" or thats the stand they will take on this, not going to go into details.

I have recently just been made aware of this "O-Tec" agreement between TEST, Raiden, CFC, PL, NCDot which basicaly means, who ever owns the tec moons currently will keep them. Now this simple agreement has completely removed the risk from owning such moons and therefore needs adressing.

The only reason incursions became relativly "risk free" was because of the awsome communitys made. THAT IS ALL

Now this o-tec agreement is in place, i think that should be nuked from orbit


This agreement effects 90% of the tech moons, how are new commers, the smaller corps/alliances ment to even get started?
Its things like this that put new people off and eventualy will be the death of the game

I agree the moons...and i mean ALL of them need to be looked at but sadly the ideas that CCP has i feel will not come into affect till winter expansion.......and that's if we a freakin lucky.

We all know that the Tech moons were the answers to the R64 moons. North vs South moons. what CCP did is that who ever it was got an ego trip and hilmar went along with as they both had their heads up each other's ass.

what should have been done is simple. I know they got a program that auto seeds the moon and sets in the data base. makes life easy. Reset the moons where there is a balance of moon goo and and Tech moons in all of 0.0 space, easiest fix they can do now and **** off all the 0.0 alliances at the same time.

when the winter expansion rolls around and the new bling bling of shield statics when there is an impact on them will be an awsome time to implement Ring Mining.....yes be an awsome way to remove the risk of moon mining to a risky mining operation with the Exhumers.

Yes that means you 0.0 carebear cousins would need to find miners to gather this. I will have no problem mining the stuff but i am not paying you to be there or be blue. you are paying me!

I personally think that they should all slowly deplete and then need to be rescanned to discover what else is available to be mined.

Are you worried your unearned wealth will be taken away?

You claim you fought hard for it, but did you really? And was that fight REALLY risky enough to justify your reward?

I say that you DID NOT earn that much wealth, and it should be removed TODAY.

About 1/4 your current tech moon income would be fair, I think.

Risk/Reward baby, Risk/Reward.

You jsut said it yourself, you dont give a F about incursions goons or tech, so please reframe from posting in threads which are specificaly started to talk about them. If you dont have a opinion because you dont give a F then dont post. SImple

Maybe go make a thread about "inventing guns"

Sounds like a recipe for even higher moongoo prices.

I like to point out the stupid, whiny, crybabies, {like you} and laugh.

Pretty certain a more palatable solution for everyone is an expansion of alchemy to deal with R32s as well, along with maybe ringmining (if CCP are still actually going to implement that).

I seriously think everyone knows the issues. The people involved, those who like the status quo, those against, CCP and just about everyone else.

How many threads do we need on the issue? Going on 3 a day .

The more threads there are the more likely a speedy solution is implemented...

Yes and no. It's easier to identify the issue but a lot harder to come up with a viable alternative to something which has been in the game and thus the economy forever.

Push too hard and we may all end up with a half arsed solution which doesn't help anyone .

Yes i do agree with you its such a massive part of the game it would require doing correctly. Just look at CCP's meat fisted approach to incursions. Luckily for them that was only a few people they put thier nose out, but do that to the whole ecconomy could be another story

Yes and no. It's easier to identify the issue but a lot harder to come up with a viable alternative to something which has been in the game and thus the economy forever.

Push too hard and we may all end up with a half arsed solution which doesn't help anyone .

I absolutely agree, in principle, that passive income like this has to be removed to something exploration. However, the chances for catastrophe is much higher than in most new enhancements or fixes.

Which of these activities are passive, and order them in the order of passivity, least passive first:

Planetary Interaction
Mining
Moon mining
Datacores
Ratting
Moon reaction
Mission

Which of these activities are passive, and order them in the order of passivity, least passive first:

Planetary Interaction
Mining
Moon mining
Datacores
Ratting
Moon reaction
Mission

Since it's unearned and not REALLY risky enough to justify the reward, what about you go there and take it?

I mean, you pictured a walk in the park, it should not be hard, shouldn't it?

Yes and no. It's easier to identify the issue but a lot harder to come up with a viable alternative to something which has been in the game and thus the economy forever.

Push too hard and we may all end up with a half arsed solution which doesn't help anyone .

The first step to that is me receiving the few trillion in unearned ISK you received from the moons.

When Goons took the moons, the piled up wealth did not exist. Because the tech moons had only just been created, and tech wasn't nearly as expensive. Even Goons can't take moons from established players without CCP nerfing Titans for them.

I know, I know, you play dumb and I don't call you on it.

Oh, and un-nerf titans and then you can re-fight that Alliance you took the moons from.

Wow you're pretty mad about us winning EVE and being ridiculously space rich aren't you.

You mean like what they did to Incursions and Data Cores?

Let me propose a simple solution that could be implemented TOMORROW and would be no worse than the current mess.

Randomly distribute tech moons across all of Player Controlled Null Sec. Each system has an equal chance of having a tech moon if it has moons.

There. Done.

Oh boy, that was SOOOOOOO hard. And you know what? After spending the ten or less man hours to implement it, I don't think CCP could change it again. I mean, it would be like set in stone. Or something.

Or not.

Who is calling for the un-nerfing of titans, except for the people who have been whining about the nerf since it was announced?

Also, who has been calling for the nerfing of the tech moon bottleneck since before it started?

We are what we are.

I get mad.

Goons lie about everything.

People are who they are.

By the way, when are all Goons going to be banned for RMT?

Did you know that when we lived in Delve we were rich in moon income? Then CCP rebalanced the moons and Delve wasn't worth it anymore. But we stayed there for a while until the whole "not paying bills" thing happened. Then we moved around a bunch, after a year or so we have ended up with even more moons than we know what to do with, besides ruin the T2 economy.

By the way, when are all Goons going to be banned for RMT?

Who is lying?

Because they were all put in one place.

No way did that happen randomly either.

I also imagine they were placed in an area that would easily be taken over to.

How nice.

Why don't you read my posts on this thread if you are so very curious.

The day you make a good post.

This is a problem to be figured out. What did Goons do when they first joined eve? Built themselves up to where they are now, right? Making friends, learning how to play (badly). The CC didn't get to where it is today without making friends along the way. So why don't you do the same thing? Convince people in game (not here on the forums, because they don't care enough), that Goons are a threat to your very lives, and get them together and go do something about them. After all, when BoB said that the Goons weren't allowed to play eve, what did Goons do?

Here is where you are lying yourself, Goonie.

You claim to believe that when you took the Tech Moons...... when Tech was way cheaper and Titans were actually rare, is the same game as today.

The established wealth and established fleets defending the Tech Moons today are vastly, vastly larger than when you took the Tech Moons.

If Goonies of two years ago where thrown into the game of today they would never take the Tech Moons. AS YOU WELL KNOW.

The Goons of today can't even take Tech Moons from other major alliances without CCP nerfing Titans. As you well know.

So even the Goonies of today couldn't "grow" and "take some moons".... much less Goons without all the established wealth their tech moons gave them.

So that would be where you are lying honey.

Having lived through most of the history of 0.0 I can safely say that every single superpower in EVE has had the same thing said against them and all of them have fallen. Titans were nerfed because they were game breaking not because goons told CCP to do something.

Here is where you are lying yourself, Goonie.

You claim to believe that when you took the Tech Moons...... when Tech was way cheaper and Titans were actually rare, is the same game as today.

The established wealth and established fleets defending the Tech Moons today are vastly, vastly larger than when you took the Tech Moons.

If Goonies of two years ago where thrown into the game of today they would never take the Tech Moons. AS YOU WELL KNOW.

The Goons of today can't even take Tech Moons from other major alliances without CCP nerfing Titans. As you well know.

So even the Goonies of today couldn't "grow" and "take some moons".... much less Goons without all the established wealth their tech moons gave them.

So that would be where you are lying honey.

That is another Goon lie.

Many current alliances are simply the old alliances renamed. If you are referring to BoB....

their help was fired from CCP. Are you suggesting that is what is required to get rid of Goons?

Having lived through most of the history of 0.0 I can safely say that every single superpower in EVE has had the same thing said against them and all of them have fallen. Titans were nerfed because they were game breaking not because goons told CCP to do something.

Was that what killed Bob? I'm pretty sure it was their disbanding, then the month long camp of their cap fleet in one single station that did that.

Well, the disbanding could have been ruled illegal and they could have been regranted their territory. That would make even more sense than the Titan Nerf.

Well, the disbanding could have been ruled illegal and they could have been regranted their territory. That would make even more sense than the Titan Nerf.

So why didn't that happen?

Oh. Light bulb.

Why? Using which logic?

The logic that one person couldn't really click their heels together and cause an empire to lose control of all its' territory?

I mean really, it's logically insane that one "traitor" could magically cause a nation to suddenly "not have sov" over itself. How? He has a really, really long talk with the local police in a few thousand systems and they all decide "they no longer answer to BoB"?

What?