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Jump Freighters- WTH was CCP thinking?

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The AEther Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:30:00 - [121] Originally by: Suas JFs are just as invincible as carriers, dreadnaughts and other cyno-capable ships... This pretty much. To be consistent your carrier should be removed too. Because these capital ships if not used directly in combat are just as invincible as a jump freighter and even more so because they can fight off a small gang while a JF has zero defenses except its hit points that takes less than 10 minutes to go through. They cannot cyno in from highsec but how often do you warp yours to gates like you are proposing JF pilots should do? And unlike JFs they can transport 2 rigged battleships. This is totally overpowered if you ask me :P Making jump freighters be unable to jump from highsec will make people bring them from backwater highsec/lowsec pipes loaded with goodies into lowsec and simply take more jumps to their destination. The only kind of gameplay this would encourage is gate camping the lowsec/highsec perimeter. Having moar gate camps is not going to make the game more interesting or exciting to play :\| Link to PVP University
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:33:00 - [122] Edited by: Mire Stoude on 20/08/2009 18:33:13 Originally by: Bellum Eternus coupled with WTZ, POSes, jump bridges and cyno jammers jump freighters provide easy logistics with near 100% immunity to being destroyed. WTF? POSes require a pretty heavy investment of time and Isk. Jump bridges and cyno jammers require SOV which also requires a pretty heavy investment of time and isk of alot of people on an alliance wide scale. All this along with the outrageous cost of a JF. And there are JF's killed everyday so they aren't exactly invincible. But you can't gank them, that is a terrible shame, we should change everything.
Synex Gallente Oursulaert Industries	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:34:00 - [123] Thread is full of fail... I'd expect more from you Bellum. Synex Oursulaert Industries Freelancer industrialist? Contact me for some exciting opportunities.
Discrodia Gallente SCUM. ACADEMY SCUM.	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:37:00 - [124] Please OP go off an pop their damn POS if it's so important to you. But leave the forums alone. ___________________________________________ MUFFINS :D
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.08.20 18:39:00 - [125] I totally 100% agree with you on this. Jump Freighters in LOW-SEC are just about impossible to kill if the pilot knows what he's doing. There are no jump beacons that you can camp with a covops. No bubbles. They are MORE difficult than carriers/dreads - because they can go into high sec, they don't have to go cyno to cyno. To people claiming you can get bumped off a station - the easy solution is getting the cyno pilot to use the tactical display - go out to the 5km circle and make sure you're still within 0km of the station. Now you have 0 risk in bumping off a station. Where are the killmails of these 'incredibly' easy to kill JF in low sec? Logistics should be made harder in this game - being in the outer fringes of the game should be more difficult (with the reward that they're better quality systems). Easy Risk-free logistics = static end game.
CEOcat CAT Corp	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:04:00 - [126] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Exactly. JFs should be possible to kill, not nearly impossible to kill. IMO they should be removed from the game completely, as there isn't any way to fix the flaws in the game design without making other ships (freighters) redundant. You are funny. JF is 4 billion isk. A regular freighter is around 800m. JFs by no means make regular freighters redundant. High sec is full of regular freighters for a reason. Jump freighters are essential and about the only reasonable way to move large amounts of stuff in null sec and between null sec and empire. I think that without them much of nullsec would be the same wasteland low sec is. Also they aren't more difficult to kill then any other cyno ship in the game. But maybe you just wanna get rid of cynos and restrict everyone to use jump bridges cause that would be fun and not monopolize nullsec at all? The fact that they can jump out of high sec don't make them more difficult to kill. It is just convinent not having to move all you **** one jump into low sec before you cyno. You don't kill outbound cyno ship unless you get extremly lucky anyhow no matter where they are... CAT Corp - BPO/BPC store
Jessie Jacobs	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:18:00 - [127] OP fails. Cry Havoc Killboard ---> Stats ---> Jump Freighters
bucktooth Caldari Ghost Data Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2009.08.20 19:31:00 - [128] Edited by: bucktooth on 20/08/2009 19:44:45 Solution to this guys problem - Make everything in eve blow up, ships, planets, jump bridges, kamakazi hamsters.... ...or rage quit!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.20 20:12:00 - [129] Originally by: Jessie Jacobs OP fails. Cry Havoc Killboard ---> Stats ---> Jump Freighters Duh you have 14 JF killed, we have 16... and i still say that they are too hard to catch. Most of kills (at leats ones i checked) was gank at POS with mothership. Its exactly same here - most of our kills were at POS using mothership. Still IMO JF is the least of an issue. They cost shedloats, are quite expensive so w/ever. IMO JBridges are more annoying/stupid idea making everything WAY too easy (like posted before - way easier than in empire). Risk vs reward? Sure. People whine that 0.0 gives "not enough reward" but read up last devblog and you can see that 0.0 pilots are on average richer than lowsec/hisec. Risk factor? Totally screwed up - 0.0 is safer than empire...
The AEther Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.08.20 20:15:00 - [130] Originally by: Omarvelous They are MORE difficult than carriers/dreads - because they can go into high sec, they don't have to go cyno to cyno. Once you make that first jump out of high sec, remainder of jumps you have to make beacon to beacon. JF has shorter jump ranges than carriers and where carrier can make just 1 jump JFs often have to make 2. Originally by: Omarvelous To people claiming you can get bumped off a station - the easy solution is getting the cyno pilot to use the tactical display - go out to the 5km circle and make sure you're still within 0km of the station. Now you have 0 risk in bumping off a station. Once you jump to station you cannot dock for 30 seconds because of session change. In this time if a party is waiting for you on the other end they can bump you out of that 0m point with their ships. Station docking perimeters also come in different sizes - some are quite shallow making bumping much easier. Originally by: Omarvelous Logistics should be made harder in this game - being in the outer fringes of the game should be more difficult (with the reward that they're better quality systems). Easy Risk-free logistics = static end game. One of the reasons that new/small alliances have trouble getting started in 0.0 is precisely because logistics is very risky such that without heavy back-up and a see of friends/blues your small alliance just won't be able to run logistics to support your infrastructure. Link to PVP University

Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.08.20 20:40:00 - [131] Originally by: Deva Blackfire From your KB: Jump Freighter1315 I guess "all the time" = 2 per month? Or less (cant remember when they were introduced). Thats not nearly enough. Strategic Cruisers are also unbalanced as the Goons havn't killed 20 of them yet.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.20 20:52:00 - [132] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/08/2009 20:54:05 Originally by: Terranid Meester Originally by: Deva Blackfire From your KB: Jump Freighter1315 I guess "all the time" = 2 per month? Or less (cant remember when they were introduced). Thats not nearly enough. Strategic Cruisers are also unbalanced as the Goons havn't killed 20 of them yet. Except for: strat cruisers are in game for around 4 months now (including production warmup time which took around 1-2 months). JFs are for over a year. Quote: One of the reasons that new/small alliances have trouble getting started in 0.0 is precisely because logistics is very risky such that without heavy back-up and a see of friends/blues your small alliance just won't be able to run logistics to support your infrastructure. You sure? And not because as soon as you show up you get removed by larger alliance? Try planting 1 tower in the north (doesnt matter which region) and tell me how long will it last. Even with current "easy" logistics.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.08.20 21:25:00 - [133] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Quite frankly, these days any sort of negative post is branded a 'whine'. Particularly when it's not a popular idea and especially when the point of the post directly makes someone's playing more difficult if a change resulted from the post. Did you type that with a straight face? This guy seems legit. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Rotnac Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.08.20 21:38:00 - [134] Man, you guys got trolled hard. And by a really bad troll.. Feel pretty stupid now, huh?
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.08.21 06:53:00 - [135] Originally by: The AEther Once you make that first jump out of high sec, remainder of jumps you have to make beacon to beacon. JF has shorter jump ranges than carriers and where carrier can make just 1 jump JFs often have to make 2. JF are invincible in low sec. 0.0 has some mechanics to make it a little bit more possible to catch and destroy. Originally by: The AEther Once you jump to station you cannot dock for 30 seconds because of session change. In this time if a party is waiting for you on the other end they can bump you out of that 0m point with their ships. Station docking perimeters also come in different sizes - some are quite shallow making bumping much easier. WTB Crystal ball knowing exactly when JF is cynoing to system to tony docking radius station so my 20 man RR BS fleet is ready to kill it. Originally by: The AEther One of the reasons that new/small alliances have trouble getting started in 0.0 is precisely because logistics is very risky such that without heavy back-up and a see of friends/blues your small alliance just won't be able to run logistics to support your infrastructure. No small alliances can't get a foothold because the larger powerblocks will annihilate anything near them. You can even the playing field with tougher logistics. Easier logistics means the bigger alliances can make use of them that much easier. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.08.21 07:43:00 - [136] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Sarcasm aside, coupled with WTZ, POSes, jump bridges and cyno jammers jump freighters provide easy logistics with near 100% immunity to being destroyed. WTF? I don't see the risk/reward here. If they are at poses, you drop capitals on them (carriers or a suicide dread which costs 500m after insurance and killing 4b + cargo would be considered nice risk/reward). Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Dibsi Dei If you think jump freighters are bad how do you feel about jump bridges? Jump bridges are horrible. Dropping one of those NIFTY bubbles on a jump bridge makes it impossible to jump through. You should try it ______________________________________________
Iria Ahrens Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.08.21 07:50:00 - [137] Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 21/08/2009 07:55:20 Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 21/08/2009 07:52:43 Originally by: Bellum Eternus If WTZ and precision cynos were removed, JFs wouldn't be invulnerable like they are now. I'm not saying that their utility isn't needed. I'm saying that other game mechanics make them invulnerable. Do you REALLY think that removing WTZ will change the game? Lesse, WTZ didn't always exist, what did people do then? Why they had dozens of bookmarks at the gate so they could WTZ. All any competent pilot would do would be to run the route first in an inty or cloaky ship and preset bookmarks before going, so you only have a chance at the COMPLETELY incompetent pilots, which generally don't fly jump freighters anyway. Actually, they probably added WTZ so player's would cut down on the bookmarks, which started being so numerous they made the system lag. Quote: No small alliances can't get a foothold because the larger powerblocks will annihilate anything near them. You can even the playing field with tougher logistics. Easier logistics means the bigger alliances can make use of them that much easier. making something harder puts more pressure on the weak, not the strong. Yes it will level the playing field, by cutting out the weaker alliances. -- EVE is about balls, brains, and paranoia. SP comes in a distant fourth place.
Doggiee	Posted - 2009.08.21 07:54:00 - [138] YES to convoys NO to easy-road logistics NO to magical "Move to Jita" button NO to lager power-blocks that hold absurdly large areas with almost no effort
LittleTerror	Posted - 2009.08.21 08:35:00 - [139] Complaining about something that is doing what is designed to do is stupid really. So what the OP is asking is for them to be removed from the game? Allowing an enemy to setup a POS that close to empire is a failure on your part sir and if its such a problem for you then perhaps you should go and destroy the POS or take the station instead of crying on the forums for it to be changed? I never understand these people that whine about such little things its like they must just sit there and find something, any little thing to cry about and then go make a crappy whine post on the forums. QQ more.
Doggiee	Posted - 2009.08.21 08:48:00 - [140] Looks like CCP thinks the same: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=683 So it's like a stop of carrier/dread hauling, now at least you'll need a specialized char and expensive ship for almost 99.99% secure logistics in null/low-sec. Good job for the start, but a bigger step is needed - Jump Fireghters shouldn't run with daily supplies - thats what a convoys are for. JF job should be logistic spec-ops and emergency supplies delivery, not a way to earn a living. IMHO: haluers + escort = lots of fun for both sides (traders and pirates) and should be supported by game mechanics. Howgh!

Taradis Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.08.21 09:43:00 - [141] waaaaa
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.21 09:55:00 - [142] Lowsec Pirate fails to sologank capital ship. Cries to forum Fail. -- Come join the carebear napfest train, everyone is welcome!
Doggiee	Posted - 2009.08.21 10:01:00 - [143] Edited by: Doggiee on 21/08/2009 10:04:13 Null-sec nerd is terrified to ask for help with escort because he has no friends he can trust or even talk to, so he prefers to run his 10 accounts alone. He then sees an idea that could put his selfish existance to danger, so pops-out with "oh-Im-so-tough" pose and spits venom instead of reasonable arguments Orrr... he just can't accept that someone could actaly do something bad, boo hoo, to his precious itemsss, oh noes, but cannot accept the fact that he maybe would have to share the profit from hauling with other players involved in the convoy, boo!
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.21 10:59:00 - [144] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 21/08/2009 11:02:54 Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 21/08/2009 11:02:08 Originally by: Doggiee Edited by: Doggiee on 21/08/2009 10:04:13 Null-sec nerd is terrified to ask for help with escort because he has no friends he can trust or even talk to, so he prefers to run his 10 accounts alone. He then sees an idea that could put his selfish existance to danger, so pops-out with "oh-Im-so-tough" pose and spits venom instead of reasonable arguments Orrr... he just can't accept that someone could actaly do something bad, boo hoo, to his precious itemsss, oh noes, but cannot accept the fact that he maybe would have to share the profit from hauling with other players involved in the convoy, boo! Better than being a condescending forum-alt warrior, to be honest :) Honestly, the problem with escort is that a lot of times it turns into a fancy word for gatecamping and maybe another RR BS blob - if enough enemies show up, it doesn't matter WHAT you have protecting your %ESCORTED_SHIP%, it WILL die because there is nothing you can do as the escorting force to stop the pain unless you're all in Falcons or something. There's a reason why most gamers heap scorn upon escort missions in other games ;) Not that work is good or bad - I'm too tired to think about that T-T ... just that maybe your "Escort is fun for both sides :D" argument is full of it ... ----
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.08.21 11:00:00 - [145] Originally by: Butter Dog but heres the thing people are stupid and lazy - jump freighters can use gates too, and unbelievably, they do you get kills when people get lazy and/or stupid, just like any other kill in eve This, unconsensual pvp in EVE only happens with pilot stupidity.
Neriel Odershank	Posted - 2009.08.21 11:03:00 - [146] Bellum, stop crying for an easy game, the most of your threads are about you crying becouse you are not capable to kill something....
Rockhead Rumple	Posted - 2009.08.21 11:14:00 - [147] What you guys fail to see is that despite the way some of you are using this topic to boost your standings with the uber-l33t-faction, jump freighters HAVE ruined the game for everyone who's into logistics and diplomacy. Jump freighters are making this game smaller and dull EXACTLY for the reasons Bellum stated. None of the outter territories could be supplied this easy and so far without proper planning. I'm really hoping to see a vote on this subject soon.
chromez0r Gallente Roving Guns Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.21 11:16:00 - [148] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Exactly. JFs should be possible to kill, not nearly impossible to kill. IMO they should be removed from the game completely, as there isn't any way to fix the flaws in the game design without making other ships (freighters) redundant. im⋅pos⋅si⋅ble - [im-pos-uh-buhl] ûadjective 1. not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. 2. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.: an impossible assignment. 3. incapable of being true, as a rumor. 4. not to be done, endured, etc., with any degree of reason or propriety: an impossible situation. 5. utterly impracticable: an impossible plan. 6. hopelessly unsuitable, difficult, or objectionable. pos⋅si⋅ble - [pos-uh-buhl] ûadjective 1. that may or can be, exist, happen, be done, be used, etc.: a disease with no possible cure. 2. that may be true or may be the case, as something concerning which one has no knowledge to the contrary: It is possible that he has already gone. so ah if something is "nearly" impossible, doesn't that make it possible? scratchs head
Rockhead Rumple	Posted - 2009.08.21 11:18:00 - [149] Edited by: Rockhead Rumple on 21/08/2009 11:18:41 No. Well yes. But you're not funny, nor clever.
chromez0r Gallente Roving Guns Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.21 11:24:00 - [150] Originally by: Rockhead Rumple Edited by: Rockhead Rumple on 21/08/2009 11:18:41 No. Well yes. But you're not funny, nor clever. you're cute.



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