HTFU

It's actually not the eledged skill that suicide gankers claim to have that contributes the biggest part to their succes but rather the lack of skill and adaptability that miners had.

How can you continue to justify and defend your so called experience and superior knowledge towards "Carebares" by engaging is such almost pathetic strategies to feel better about yourself?

Would you agree that if miners adapted succesfully to the changes suicide gankers bring on in high sec that their arguments for calling them carebares are invalid and that if suicide gankers continue to engage in this low risk, low skill activity it makes them actually look like more of a carebear then their victims?

Doesn't apply here. Learn how to read mister!

Carebears physically fear losing their ship. Suicide gankers don't fear losing their ship.

vOv

I don't think you understand what a carebear is.

I think a lot of them do actually. How do you account for going in with alts losing ships that are basically worthless to them and as a fact are?

For every gank I ever made, I have ten other kills in my records, with most being solo, or at most as part of a group of five or less people.

Your whole wall of text is one big fallacy. Do you really think that gankers only possess that singular capability to blow up barges with destroyers? No, ganking stems from an attitude that can only be cultivated by experiencing the many different interactive facets this game possesses, including industry, combat pvp, and market trading.

On the other hand, the defining trait of a carebear is the monotonous repetition of the cycle of dying, and then whining about it and begging for the game to be changed in favor of unjustified and undeserved safety.

Carebears physically fear losing their ship. Suicide gankers don't fear losing their ship.

vOv

They are "risking" anything.. that buys you nothing..

I don't think you understand what a carebear is.

I think you're thinking more of it then it actually is. Which is a common trait among people who engage in it. Just takes a couple of days to skill up for it.

yeah, he's someone who doesn't risk more than he can afford to lose.....hmmm.

No, it's still a ship loss. Tell carebears to fight back against the -10's, and they'll quickly whine about how they could lose their ship if they tried, no matter how cheap it is.

The price doesn't matter, except to make the loss easier to swallow. They're still going in there knowing they'd lose their ship, whereas most carebears start blubbering uncontrollably when the topic of "engaging another player" comes up.

Not really a testament to their motivation and air of superiority towards their victims.

Whenever the risks go up and they'd have to pull some more weight pulling a gank of they seem to drop the ball and go for an easier kill. Which makes sence but shows a weak resolve. Not really a testament to their motivation and air of superiority towards their victims.

No I don't think that. But your KB and whatever kills you made solo etc or in a small gang don't do a lot of justice to the skills you have to be able to do that by reverting to something as easy and low risk as suicide ganking carebears for being carebears.

I think you're thinking more of it then it actually is. Which is a common trait among people who engage in it. Just takes a couple of days to skill up for it. To be honest a 10 day old noob engaging in it is a GD hero compared to some skilled null sec player using alts.

GǪand the question remains: is anyone really claiming any of this? What motivation and air superiority are you talking about?

You try to make good points but it's not actually said anywhere. But that indication is given in tens of thousands of posts on this forum. Overall suicide gankers do give off an air of feeling superior towards their victims. Specially when the tears come as it's said. To me suicide ganking doesnt do justice to those indications on the forums and makes those who participate in it, by those actions alone, look like carebears in my oppinion. Despite of their experience and skills.

You're making it seem like ganking reverts all other accomplishments a player might have. That is ridiculous.

[quote=Aldeskwatso][quote=Tippia][quote=Aldeskwatso]

Most of the gankers inform their victims how to not be victims and try to convince them to adapt to their tactics. The victims usually don't like the advice....we usually hear a response that sounds almost as ludicrous as saying a beautiful woman should have every right to walk down a dark street at night alone wearing nothing but a bra and panties and not be a victim.

What I am saying is that, based on the large amounts of posts on this forum largely by suicide gankers that hint to their awesomeness over their victims from tears they have dropped on their recent losses.

I'm simply implying based on my interpretation that it does not do justice to their own hints of awesomeness and that by those action alone they actually become what they claim to despise regardless of their true motivations and other accomplishments. Even if those other accomplishments claim or prove otherwise.

.. celebrate the bigger picture....

......almost as ludicrous as saying a beautiful woman should have every right to walk down a dark street at night alone wearing nothing but a bra and panties and not be a victim.

Stopped there, the "bigger picture" is bullshit self justification for picking on the weakest players in the game, if these players had any balls they would be in low, wh or null.

Are you saying you think a women dressed like that deserves to be attacked? Interesting . Personaly I think a women wearing anything they like is not an open invetation to be raped under any circumstances but thats just me.

HTFU

You're making it sound like most ganking isn't done by the alts of low, wh, and null players.

You try to make good points but it's not actually said anywhere.

To me suicide ganking doesnt do justice to those indications on the forums and makes those who participate in it, by those actions alone, look like carebears in my oppinion.

Suicide gankers have, in a twist of brilliant irony, set themselves up in a position very similar to that which miners occupy - that of an utterly indispensible part of EVE Online's culture and the guardians of its future.

question remains: does anyone actually claim this, or are you just employing the same fallacy as the OP?

So your entire OP is basically a big strawman.

Then you need to check your definition of GÇ£carebearGÇ¥ because it doesn't make much sense. You also need to dump those assumptions, because that's what's tripping you up.

GǪand the question remains: does anyone actually claim this, or are you just employing the same fallacy as the OP?


Oh, and Kijo, you need to look up the word GÇ£rightGÇ¥. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Tripping me up?! I'm just asking if people would agree if suicide gankers would be the new carebears or not if miners adapt and gankers don't and keep looking for the easy poppings to be made instead of actually rising to a challenge set by adapting miners.

Oh, and Kijo, you need to look up the word GÇ£rightGÇ¥. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

I think these actions (or lack of them) by miners contribute the biggest part to the "succes" that suicide gankers have. It's actually not the eledged skill that suicide gankers claim to have that contributes the biggest part to their succes but rather the lack of skill and adaptability that miners had.

Suicide ganking is a low skill and low risk trade, takes place in high sec, most are alts making it even less risky. While mining takes more skill training, is riskier these days, takes more experience to pull off and you need to be far more adaptable.

Tripping me up?!

Lets just agree to disagree and quit the analytical on this.

Have you not read James 315's 18-post spiel.

It's the opposite of left, right?

No. Don't try to be cute. IRL, everyone has the right not to be a victim. The clothing is utterly and completely irrelevant to the existence of this right.

[quote]
The problem with your comparison is that it, in turn, is completely irrelevant to the virtual world of EVE. The right that exists in real life does not exist in EVE. The only universal right you have in this game is to undock and log out. It's an idiotic comparison and you should not use it. I know miners are very fond of trying to claim that rape as innocent an activity as playing a game, but that just means you shouldn't lower yourself to their level of idiocy and employ their braindead and despicable logic.

Instead, you should explain to them that they are playing a game and that they have different rights in this world than they have in the real one. You should then report them for hate-mongering.

How do you provide rights for something our society cannot possibly prevent or control other than through our own self protecting measures?

I think the comparison is spot on

I don't consider trolls arguments, so the question remains.
At best, I'd consider it a caricature of the kind of self-righteously indignant tirades carebear miners tend to vomit out when you explain to them that they aren't particularly necessary for EVE. If they read his post and realise the silliness of the whole concept, then he's done a good job.

By proclaiming it a right. That is really all that is needed.

GǪaside from the right not to be a victim existing in real life and not in EVE.

This doesn't change the fact that the miners need to stop making themselves victims by actively choosing to make themselves the easiest targets imaginable (in close competition with the rocks they're trageting, but given the GÇ£onoz, it's crowdedGÇ¥-whines that pop up every now and then, the rocks sure seem more difficult). But that's just it: there's a difference between the game GÇö where making that choice, actively or passively, is just yet another decision in how you want to approach the world GÇö and real life GÇö where the passive right not to be victim exists.

GǪthe comparison is even more flawed since you don't have the right to walk down the street dressed however you like, but this is a completely separate issue to your right not to be a victim of crime.

Oh, and Kijo, you need to look up the word GÇ£rightGÇ¥. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Because their ships are crap. They aren't "risking" anything.. that buys you nothing..

Suicide gankers don't fear losing their ship.

It's not risky PVP, it's buy low, sell high.

...
Your interpretation is based on stuff you just made up. It has no substance.
...

Now there is an assumption if I ever saw one. I wonder, what do you think I actually think on this subject?

Actually, why can't you give a straight awnser and elaborate on that instead of trying to debunk my reasoning which is based on my own observations and experience.

I am a suicide ganker AND a carebear. Whatever is to become of me???

Overall suicide gankers do give off an air of feeling superior towards their victims.

....we usually hear a response that sounds almost as ludicrous as saying a beautiful woman should have every right to walk down a dark street at night alone wearing nothing but a bra and panties and not be a victim.

Carebears physically fear

Fear isnt a physical thing.

so many words to cry about suicide gankers...

Beautiful women (and ugly women, and ugly dudes) have the right to walk down the street at night and not be a victim. I'm not sure what country you're in, but in mine, attacking another person is illegal. Even if they're wearing a bikini and it's night time.

While I'm at it, did you notice your analogy boils down to 'gankers are like rapists'?

If your intent was to defend ganking, I'd suggest that's not the best argument.

Carebears physically fear losing their ship. Suicide gankers don't fear losing their ship.

vOv

Anything that bring down the quality of eve is something to cry about.

Whatever happen to empire building.

Didnt start this game to play with a bunch of pu$$ys killing mining ships

Anything that bring down the quality of eve is something to cry about. Whatever happen to empire building.
Didnt start this game to play with a bunch of pu$$ys killing mining ships

GǪwhich in itself is risky PvP, since the buying and selling are both PvP and since there are risks involved that may remove those GǣlowGǥ and GǣhighGǥ parts.

I'm not sure how *some* of it can be called risky.

A while back I bought a rare antique book at an estate sale for $4. The market value on that book was estimated at over $500. Even if I get 10% of that, I make a profit. The risk of losing money on that investment is so low that it was never a consideration.

[quote=Aldeskwatso]No. It's someone who refuses to even risk that.

Fear isnt a physical thing. Its mental. Genius.

I think that you think that gankers, GÇ£by those actions alone, look like carebearsGÇ¥.
The problem is that the actions you're referring to are made up by you and based on your assumptions. I'm not assuming anything GÇö I'm looking at the lack of proof you have for the claims you make about what gankers say and do.

Because your reasoning doesn't seem to be on very good footing, but rather seems to be a strawman argument.

comon tippia we all know the that profit for killing hulks goes right into the hands of the people who make the ships and isk fauset the items for ship production.

killing a hulk is not risk... flying a hulk in high sec is mega risk atm.

What you gankers do after every gank?

Hek, even can flippers run away if there's even a small chance they lose their ship.

They're managing and mitigating their risk. That's pretty much the final proof that the risk is there, and that they're not refusing to risk those ships.

I live in The Citadel, so I have no idea what goes on in Hek. And yes? So what? They're managing and mitigating their risk. That's pretty much the final proof that the risk is there, and that they're not refusing to risk those ships.

You are fixating so much on how my point of view came to be and missing what the actual point of view is.

I just flipped a can and engaged a drake in an Iteron V.

It was a draw.

i have seen this before thought the quote was not from me... just a lousy copy and paste effort...


you killed his drones first so he could no longer kill you but he is purger setup so you did not have enough dps to break tank?

i remember once trying to save a pve drake in scalding pass that was purger fit... i was attacked by three ships that could not break my tank and i could not keep them still due to the fact i could not refit as i had no station rights...

was rather funny after 15 min they gave up and let me pass lol...

Tippia? More like Tippiowned, amirite?

No. I am wondering what you have to support your point of view. It doesn't seem to be much aside assumptions about gankers' motivations and reasoning.

Your assertions look like strawman arguments, and your question born from these assertions seems completely academic because it has no connection to the realities of the situation you're asking about.

Basically, you're asking GÇ£what if cars were made from balloon animals, wouldn't that mean that hedgehogs are the largest menace to highway traffic?GÇ¥ except you're skipping the GÇ£what ifGÇ¥ part and going with the assumption that they are and then claim hedgehogs are really really horrible. I'm asking you why on earth you'd think that cars would be built from balloon animals.

And no, it's not about experience or interpretation GÇö you are making some very explicit claims about what people say and do, and I'm asking you to back those claims up.

Also suicide gankers suck

For my conclusion i would like to state that Tippa is the scum of the universe

Also suicide gankers suck

So what are we talking about now?

If you're going to do something, might as well do it right.


That's not a nice thing to say at all.

why they call them french fries when we all know it was Belgium that made them first...

Incorrect. That only means they are low skilled players who don't have what it takes to fight.

Tippia? More like Tippiowned, amirite?

For arguments sake lets assume [GǪ]

Then what? It would still actually be insignificant and meaningless being the oppinion of one person. Just you.

Besides, skipping the "what if"? You should read back a little. It's there.

Tippa (or whatever the **** her name is) drew all attention away from the original topic at every opportunity, drawing attention to how OP started his argument and how other people posting on this thread are misinterpreting words and ideals.

GǪso they mitigate the risks they have to take.

How do you manage not to get a very simple name right. It's six letters long and only uses four very distinct letters of the alphabet.

How do you manage not to get a very simple name right. It's six letters long and only uses four very distinct letters of the alphabet.

About that "mining is risk free"...

Drop is easier to pronounce and it fits better to your posts.

GǪand it is if you manage your risks. Until you do, gankers and the like provide the risk it should have.

No. You will read about suicide gankers and how local ruins EVE until you relent and remove them both, and you will like it.

Based on the responses to this topic alone I guess most people on this forum as of now disagree because the act of suicide ganking alone does not condemn other accomplishments.

That isn't true, the people that get killed, get kill rights on the gankers.

For PvP and like to encourage more of it? Or perhaps you are an industrialist with a specific focus in game not directly concerned with PvP skilling to be effective at your role and therefore ineffective to apply teeth in response to criminal activities?

Want to validate a potential Career path in GëívGëí with new income potential that is ideally designed as simply a transferance of ISK from one pilot to another?

Actually like situations where ships shoot back and "really" improve your KB resume as opposed to simply suprising soft industrial targets?

You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in GëívGëí where acceptance of risk is an everyday seperator of those getting ahead on the curve, criminals included, to ensure the game evolves instead of being kept dumbed down?

Or simply want to make GëívGëí less boring with adding more fun and challenging gameplay elements?

Would like to see CCP finally correct a long standing broken mechanic in the game which at best provides an exploit for the effected criminal party to profit further from and yet has been left in the game still?

"It's going to be awesome."

"It's absolutley on the list of things to do."

"We have a spaceships game, but you can't be han solo or boba fett, that's not clever."

So yes they obviously like it safe if they are resistant to seeing the BH system repaired

I just want to say to high-sec miners :

MINE IN COVETOR!

No gankers will attack you and what will you lost? around 10% of yield
How far it is from a 300M hulk?
And if you loose it, that's the cost of one hour of veldspar mining!

Suicide gankers I have to agree are like little girls with a spreadsheet mentality to EVE achievements. But moreso pathetic that they operate under broken bounty hunter mechanics which would be one obvious nominal risk element afforded to the criminal contigent outside of their spreadsheet calulations, if it was actually effective. So yes they obviously like it safe if they are resistant to seeing the BH system repaired so an interesting analogy to draw about gamer mentalities even if the definition is indifferent to the purposes.

hey i am gonna post some magic psychology here, if i call them carebears they will stop ganking