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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Chobham
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:34:00 -
[91]
Did the U.S. complain about U-Boats not being fair because they attacked our troop transports and cargo ships with near impunity? Hell no, we built our own and did the same and also took the fight to their visible targets.
Get your own stealth bombers to hit back at their home system and attack their visible ships with your traditional fleets. If they don't have a home system then they are terrorists basically and the only way to kill terrorists is to cut off their money supply. If you really care, find out how they make their money and stop them.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:39:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Daenosa i said it in every whine afk cloaker threads along with everyone else. remove local with 0.0 afk cloakers arent the problem, its people abusing local chat as an intel tool.
This
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:32:00 -
[93]
#1 AFK cloakers are a good part of the game. U-boat tactics ect.
#2 Stealthbombers are pretty op right now. You should have them trained because they do awesome things. Bombs to kill blob's tacklers, unlikely to get ganked travelling, ect.
#3 A pvp fit bs that is fit with some intelligence is never going to die to a solo bomber. Bomber w/ faction disruptor might be interesting. Heavy neuts and drones will always give a stealthbomber a hard time.
#4 When someone gets tackled in the home system doing pve, warping to them is a monumentally stupid thing to do. You should have a fleet up, have everyone on coms, and have eyes in all adjacent systems before you do this thing. Otherwise you deserve the face raping that is coming to you. Holding a ratter while he screams in local for help while the gang waits for more victims to show up in the belt is one of a pvp groups most entertaining situations. Right behind fleet battles.
#5 Its not a good idea to rat with a hostile in local unless you're aligned out at all times, have some ecm drones or a neut to get him off you...If there is a cloaker in system you treat him likes he is at the keyboard every hour of every day accordingly.
#6 There is nothing wrong with getting all the ratters in system in one big blob doing one anomaly at a time. You will make the same isk/hour because anomalies spit as many rats at you as you can chew up. Pretty much as fast as you can chew them up. The only loss is if some faction loot turns up is has to be split. Assuming the anomalies aren't broken. Stupid things.
#7 Moving to another system is not a good answser post dominion cause you shouldn't be sitting on many fully upgraded systems. They are too expensive. See #6 for the new solution. On that same not afk cloakers did recieve a semi buff because of this and ratters hatred of trying to actually work with other ratters.
#8 Bait them out. Kill the ****ers. Camp them in. Learn how to decloak ships that jumped the gate and got caught in a bubble with an interceptor like a stiletto.
#9 Fire up your lvl 4 mission alt or jumpclone to empire. When the cloaker has you beat you can always retreat to the glory that is lvl 4 empire missions. You don't even make that much less money, if there is a loss at all. This begs the question of why you were trying to rat in 0.0 at all but life does take all sorts.
#10 Never, ever, let your whine become a call to nerf local. The only people who don't lose in a local nerf scenario is the cloaky ****s who have you being a ****ant on the forums in the first place. A 0.0 without local actually horrifies me. Of course I would adapt. I can fly a rapier, sb, and I'm not that far from a black ops. Alot of skill would go out the window if 0.0 became a situation where you were reduced to playing chicken as to who had more cloakies ready to join the fight. Not to mention finding anyone even if they aren't playing cloakies online...
#11 There need to be another couple classes of electronis boats. The words ewar and recon are already taken but what I'm getting at is ship classes that can do these things:
Drop 'depth charges' to have a chance to decloak nearby cloakers on grid.
Scan out deep cloakers and unprobable ships with a minimun time requirement around 20 mins to half an hour.
Be a cruiser or battlecruiser version of the covops that could give more definitive information in terms of what is in system where.
Be a ship that could put out interference that would limit probes, the onboard scanner, and other information gathering tools.
If all of this was implemented I would then support removing local. If there are U-boats there should be destroyers that can hunt them. And huge ammounts of naval warfare has always been about finding the enemy. Go read a WW2 naval history if you want to make claims about U-boats and ****.
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Trader Jjenna
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:33:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Trader Jjenna on 10/12/2009 22:33:51 Remove local in all of 0.0. Keep it in low sec if you must for the bears.
Best thing about WH is the removal of local. Concerned about people jumping in? Have someone scout the WH entry.
Need to mine or rat in a belt? Bring friends. More battles will happen all over the place.
Remove local.
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Toma Pulii
The Circle Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.10 23:37:00 -
[95]
we need some cheese in here!!
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:22:00 -
[96]
Originally by: HeliosGal even if u have afk cloakers the smart ones will assign fast lock arazu or falcon or HIC pilot to the ratting-mining gang and if a afk stealth bomber uncloaks u simply lock and remove the threat
And if the 6 formerly AFK cloakers decloak (as mentioned by the OP), they remove the Arazu, Falcon or HIC in that mining gang.
The cloak is not the issue, it's the AFK that's the issue. Anybody who says an AFK cloaker can't hurt you are the ones sitting AFK and cloaked in your local 0.0.
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Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2009.12.11 01:21:00 -
[97]
you really dont like seeing afk cloaker in your local
reduce the local window and forget about them ... see no more problem
alternativly: remove local from 0.0 .... about time
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Caleb Fury
Amarr Did I just do that
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Posted - 2009.12.11 01:41:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras you really dont like seeing afk cloaker in your local
reduce the local window and forget about them ... see no more problem
alternativly: remove local from 0.0 .... about time
Works for me. Oh and thank you Valadeya. I used your guide to kill a ratting Ishtar!
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:36:00 -
[99]
Point 1. Local will never be removed this has been discussed since i started EVE in 2004
Point 2. Read the op and you will actually notice he is talking about alts, Or just do it before u go to bed/work when you wouldnt be generating isk anyway.
Point 3. Your absolutely clueless here, The cloakers will go afk in a deep safespot not at a random planet. Keeping them out of a system is impossible expecially with blackops now.
Funy you telling someone to grow up when your comments are junk and you have no grasp of the situation at all.
Originally by: Jennitha Flowerwind Edited by: Jennitha Flowerwind on 10/12/2009 21:05:50 humm just a few thoughts on this matter,
1- remove local like it is in wh's, and then the fused loss that goes with it, ie no market or contract access will make most pilots beg for local back very fast.
2- an afk cloaked player does no damage, makes no isk for themselves or there corp/alliance, builds nothing, defends nothing, moves nothing. all for the chance to glean some intell. Try to sour there intell or invalidate it. But please stop crying about it, ccp has invested to much time and labor into expanding the cloaking function so face it its not going away.
3- 3 days the op mentioned that they had these 6 pilots cloaked and afk in there system? 3 days?...wtf? u trying to tell us u couldnt do a well orginized drone sweep of the system in 3 days? or perhaps a massive orginized fleet of smartbombing ships to elliminate the pest problem? I refuse to accept that you (the op) and all the pilots in ur area didnt have the ability to take the steps required to secure your system.
But that instead your to lazy to take the steps needed to do this, and that rather then do so you would rather post up on these magnificant forums your pettyness and cry to others about the injustices of other pilots playing a game the way they want to and not the way you want them to.
Grow the hell up and learn new tactics and when you have a problem fix it there is always an answer to every problem eve presents you with, however the solution may be worse then the problem was but thats eve.
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:49:00 -
[100]
This is how I use to kill people with AFK cloaking and it is damn near impossible to stop.
Me in an arazu and my alt in a hound.
1. We would log on then go AFK at a safespot for hours. 2. Find a belt with a strong BS spawn (like 3 1.8 mill rats) 3. Wait untill ratter enters belt and engages rats 4. Align to a SS near a distant object. 5. Uncloak, scramble and dampen, staying aligned and outside the target BS's scramble range. 6. The enemy BS should die within 1 minute, If any hostile appears i can insta warpout. 7. Destroy/ collect loot 8. recloak
There is prety much nothing at all the enemy can do about it. The only time im uncloaked i am out of scramble range and aligned ready to warp at first sign of trouble.
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theRaptor
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.12.11 06:12:00 -
[101]
Edited by: theRaptor on 11/12/2009 06:14:17
Originally by: Mire Stoude
Originally by: HeliosGal even if u have afk cloakers the smart ones will assign fast lock arazu or falcon or HIC pilot to the ratting-mining gang and if a afk stealth bomber uncloaks u simply lock and remove the threat
And if the 6 formerly AFK cloakers decloak (as mentioned by the OP), they remove the Arazu, Falcon or HIC in that mining gang.
The cloak is not the issue, it's the AFK that's the issue. Anybody who says an AFK cloaker can't hurt you are the ones sitting AFK and cloaked in your local 0.0.
AFK cloakers can't hurt you for 22 hours out of the day (assuming they aren't no lifers). You may as well whine that anyone can have an active spy call in his five logged out buddies to login trap you.
You aren't supposed to be safe ANYWHERE in EvE. And especially in frigging 0.0.
Just wait until CCP redo 0.0 local, then all you 0.0 carebears will be screaming for blood.
I sometimes wonder how people like you survived in 0.0 before they added bubbles, dictors, and scan probes so you could PVE in peace. Oh right you didn't.
Back in 2004 I was in Tenal and trying to rat in a system that had spies watching us around the clock who would regularly pull a login trap. They could sit at a safe in a BS and we couldn't do anything about it (except for the one guy in my corp who was awesome at the scanner and even managed to manually scan down spare BS to steal). ---
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production |
Jukhta Mein
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
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Posted - 2009.12.11 07:11:00 -
[102]
Afk cloakers harms you in different ways from an active, hunting cloaker. And they're able to do so at no expense of their time nor energy. I'm not really sure if that's intended.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:41:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/12/2009 08:42:37
Quote: 3 days the op mentioned that they had these 6 pilots cloaked and afk in there system? 3 days?...wtf? u trying to tell us u couldnt do a well orginized drone sweep of the system in 3 days? or perhaps a massive orginized fleet of smartbombing ships to elliminate the pest problem? I refuse to accept that you (the op) and all the pilots in ur area didnt have the ability to take the steps required to secure your system.
How stupid are you exactly? On a scale of 1 to 10?
And at two posts above, how do you propose then you deal with afk cloakers, because they arent playing 22 hours of the time they are cloaked you should just accept you lose a mining fleet every day and make up for it in the time they are really afk? Honestly that is not one of the better ideas. The previously mentioned running lvl 4s in high sec is a way better idea.
Lets assume we got a few afk cloakers in a system, and we know they are stealth bombers, then there are three options: 1. Not using the system anymore for pve activities. I dont think that was really the idea of dominion.
2. Having 23/7 at least an equal amount of pvp ships ready to defend the pve'ers. I hope you see yourself how terrible this idea is. Assuming the previously mentioned 1 hour average time per day people play, and lets say 3 afk cloakers in system, you need 69 pvp'ers who dont do anything besides sitting in that system wondering the cloakers will decloak.
3. Accepting that once per day you lose a couple of ships (best case) or your entire mining fleet.
Quote: You aren't supposed to be safe ANYWHERE in EvE. And especially in frigging 0.0.
Dont you see the irony yourself in this? You whine that people shouldnt be safe anywhere, yet that is exactly the point of the people you are arguing against. You arent supposed to be safe ANYWHERE in EvE. And especially in frigging 0.0 WHEN YOU ARENT EVEN AT YOUR COMPUTER.
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Dracoknight
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:50:00 -
[104]
Personally i wouldnt be so damned scared of Cloakers in local, you know the enemy is there and be ready for him! Additionally think of it this way: what kind of enemy do you want? a enemy you cant see but know is there, or a enemy that you can see but you dont know about?
( Metaphor for spies in corps, you dont really know they arent on your side before you get your ass stabbed ) ____________________
I wish my Thorax could use missiles... |
Varesk
Gallente Maelstrom Crew Underworld Excavators
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Posted - 2009.12.11 10:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
best post of the year.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 10:17:00 -
[106]
Originally by: A Ingus It's not the cloak that is the problem it's the afk harrassment. And typically that's what it is, it is not done for intel purposes.
Sounds to me like he's doing a good job. If you're getting so upset, then the quite legitimate 'mental warfare' tactic is working.
afk harassment, man that made me laugh
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Naomi Tirawa
Amarr Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2009.12.12 00:08:00 -
[107]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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Flaming Butterfly
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Posted - 2009.12.12 01:37:00 -
[108]
Run the cloak long enough and it should overheat, burn out, afk cloaker uncloaked.
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Chobham
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Posted - 2009.12.12 02:38:00 -
[109]
IMO the only thing that needs to be changed is that the 2km radius to discover cloakers needs to be extended back to the original 5km or at least 4km. Right now it's nearly impossible to find them at a gate camp without a swarm of drones behind an interceptor.
Perhaps give assault frigates some sort of sonar module with a fairly large radius. Make it take a ridiculous amount of grid or cpu and give AF a role bonus so they are the only ones that can fit it realistically. This would give them a clear role in EVE when they really don't have one currently.
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A Ingus
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Posted - 2009.12.12 03:08:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Chobham Did the U.S. complain about U-Boats not being fair because they attacked our troop transports and cargo ships with near impunity? Hell no, we built our own and did the same and also took the fight to their visible targets.
Get your own stealth bombers to hit back at their home system and attack their visible ships with your traditional fleets. If they don't have a home system then they are terrorists basically and the only way to kill terrorists is to cut off their money supply. If you really care, find out how they make their money and stop them.
Ah, nice analogy, though not the way you think. You see a u-boat could not remain submerged forever. It did have to come up for air. An eve afk cloaker does not have any limit to his cloak, other than being logged out at downtime.
Originally by: Chobham IMO the only thing that needs to be changed is that the 2km radius to discover cloakers needs to be extended back to the original 5km or at least 4km. Right now it's nearly impossible to find them at a gate camp without a swarm of drones behind an interceptor.
Perhaps give assault frigates some sort of sonar module with a fairly large radius. Make it take a ridiculous amount of grid or cpu and give AF a role bonus so they are the only ones that can fit it realistically. This would give them a clear role in EVE when they really don't have one currently.
An interesting suggestion. But still would leave the ss'd afk cloaker immune from detection.
Originally by: Mag's Sounds to me like he's doing a good job. If you're getting so upset, then the quite legitimate 'mental warfare' tactic is working.
afk harassment, man that made me laugh
Who said I'm "getting so upset". Hell I have had alts afk cloaked. But, I also analyse the game outside of of what I can do and do do. And, from that perspective, how are you playing the game if you are afk and safe. Apparently you like to be afk and safe and see nothing wrong with it. Didn't you read Furb Killer's post above yours? Here it is if you missed it:
Originally by: Furb Killer Dont you see the irony yourself in this? You whine that people shouldnt be safe anywhere, yet that is exactly the point of the people you are arguing against. You arent supposed to be safe ANYWHERE in EvE. And especially in frigging 0.0 WHEN YOU ARENT EVEN AT YOUR COMPUTER.
So, Mag's, who's really the wimp? The "carebears" mining and ratting away in a belt with a threat in local, or the person who logs on in the morning, ss and cloaks, goes to work in perfect safety for 8 hours, and then when he comes home looks to sneak up and gank a miner or ratter who had the courage to mine while he's been afk submerged without any worry of running out of air.
Maybe if you'ld have done both, like I have, and Bundy Bear has, you'ld recognize that hunting in a stealth bomber is fine and good for the game. It's just that it should be "hunting" with skill and effort. A fuel timer, or a decloaking scanner of an afk cloaker, or sonar or depth charges, or some mechanic should be in game to make cloaked hunting/scouting require some player skill (and I'm not just talking avoiding being decloaked on a gate jump-in). When I'm out in my recon or bomber I think it would be good if I had to consider how long I've been stationary, or on the same grid, or hell even just exactly how long I've been cloaked.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.12 03:24:00 -
[111]
I don't fly SBs but I do fly cov ops and the one thing that I ask myself is if cov ops and SBs haven't made force recons and black ops somewhat obsolescent? It's far easier to get inside a system with a cov ops than either of the two larger ship types, I think, and it does seem a bit OP that they can both do the role as opposed to perhaps only one.
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Chobham
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Posted - 2009.12.12 06:41:00 -
[112]
Originally by: A Ingus
An interesting suggestion. But still would leave the ss'd afk cloaker immune from detection.
Cloaking has nothing to do with the safed afker. Someone in a ship with eccm can do the exact same thing. The problem is that the cloaker can get through the gate camps all the way to the home system without much trouble unless he gets really unlucky.
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2009.12.12 10:22:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Originally by: Daenosa i said it in every whine afk cloaker threads along with everyone else. remove local with 0.0 afk cloakers arent the problem, its people abusing local chat as an intel tool.
This
/sign
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Maeve Kell
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Posted - 2009.12.12 10:37:00 -
[114]
Totally agree, this just sucks, at least there should be some possibility to find them if you work hard for it.. like some new destroyers that can search cloakers.. (i always compare cloakers to submarines)
Give us Sonar and Waterbombs
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.12.12 12:16:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Mag''s on 12/12/2009 12:17:32
Originally by: A Ingus Apparently you like to be afk and safe and see nothing wrong with it.
I've never been long term afk whilst cloaked, not sure where you read that. But I do often have an alt logged and cloaked, sat still in the same spot for hours, does that count even though I'm using it?
Originally by: A Ingus So, Mag's, who's really the wimp? The "carebears" mining and ratting away in a belt with a threat in local, or the person who logs on in the morning, ss and cloaks, goes to work in perfect safety for 8 hours, and then when he comes home looks to sneak up and gank a miner or ratter who had the courage to mine while he's been afk submerged without any worry of running out of air.
Out of air?
The fact that they decided to mine/rat in the same system and ended up getting ganked, is their fault. They win the Darwin award.
The problem with all your ideas on fuel usage, timer etc, is that when you are cloaked and trying to gain a position on the enemies fleet, (which can takes hours of time depending on the situation) any of those ideas could fail and uncloak you. Plus who's to say they are afk, do you know when someone is afk? Can you say for certain? Well no you can't, you're guessing they are.
My alt sits there, in the same spot most of the time, for hours. But there I am, looking at the screen and scanning every now and then. I don't talk in local, even to reply, so should I be made to jump through hoops, because some people in 0.0 are scared and can't move to other systems?
I'm becoming more and more inclined to the idea of removing local from 0.0, it would at least stop all the whining on this. But knowing the type, they would move onto another topic asap.
Edit: I don't live in 0.0 any more, haven't done for some time.
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Maeve Kell
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Posted - 2009.12.12 13:16:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Mag's
The fact that they decided to mine/rat in the same system and ended up getting ganked, is their fault. They win the Darwin award.
So in your oppinion an ally with 6 systems and 600 people shall stop all their daily work because of 6 afk cloakers.. one in every system? wow.. thats nice..
But those 600 can do nothing except of wait for actions/mistakes of the bombers..
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Lemmy Kravitz
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Posted - 2009.12.12 13:26:00 -
[117]
Trying to figuere out why you would stick around in a system with a hostile in it and mine? You know he's there, you know it's watching, and yet you still mine.
Idk... kinda seems like the kid whining about how he keeps hurting himself when he runs in to the same pole all the time.
If he's AFK just pick up your operations and find a new place to carebear. and here is the best part. If he follows, you know he's not afk.
omg amazing, and revolutionary.
maybe it's an oversimplification of the problem. idk.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.12 13:26:00 -
[118]
Quote:
The fact that they decided to mine/rat in the same system and ended up getting ganked, is their fault. They win the Darwin award.
/facepalm, serious this is the entire problem, and apparently you still fail to see it when it is right in front of you. It shouldnt be needed to stop pve'ing in a system because one afk'er cloaked up.
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Maeve Kell
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Posted - 2009.12.12 13:31:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz Trying to figuere out why you would stick around in a system with a hostile in it and mine? You know he's there, you know it's watching, and yet you still mine.
Idk... kinda seems like the kid whining about how he keeps hurting himself when he runs in to the same pole all the time.
If he's AFK just pick up your operations and find a new place to carebear. and here is the best part. If he follows, you know he's not afk.
omg amazing, and revolutionary.
maybe it's an oversimplification of the problem. idk.
maybe because some allies have no ****load of space to carebear in?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.12.12 13:52:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Mag''s on 12/12/2009 13:54:10
Originally by: Maeve Kell So in your oppinion an ally with 6 systems and 600 people shall stop all their daily work because of 6 afk cloakers.. one in every system? wow.. thats nice..
But those 600 can do nothing except of wait for actions/mistakes of the bombers..
If you can't set up a proper gang for protection with 600 people, then you shouldn't be in 0.0.
Originally by: Furb Killer
/facepalm, serious this is the entire problem, and apparently you still fail to see it when it is right in front of you. It shouldnt be needed to stop pve'ing in a system because one afk'er cloaked up.
How do you know he is afk and why should it stop you PvE'ing with friends? Maybe no local would help the weak minded, in these situations.
I've lived in 0.0 for most of my eve life, supposed afk cloakers never bothered me.
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