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Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Panda Team
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Posted - 2009.11.25 15:10:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Pod Amarr
I cant believe ppl are actually going with this have you never seen a resonable fit bship being killed buy single bomber ...
I say remove Local in 0.0 and make it an upgrade would make it realy interesting. You dont have to remove it just dont show ppl till they speak to be exact.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Valadeya+uthanaras
Scroll trhought the first few page, I can tell you a bomber can easely solo a lot of regular battleship setup 
On an other note, the solution in removing afk cloaker is to remove local.... so you no longuer have flawless intel that make you post complain on CaoD about someone scaring you away from your mining/npcing.
I mean .... if you didnt know there was someone afk and cloaked in your system for 3 days like you say , you wouldn't think you are greifed and people are evil and stuff , you would mine and rat these days without problem
to the op, If you disagree ---`> empire level 4 are that way ... and stick with them liek the carebear you are
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Ethan Blue
Rubicon Vanguard
Emergence.
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Posted - 2009.11.25 16:35:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ethan Blue on 25/11/2009 16:35:49
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Originally by: Pod Amarr
I cant believe ppl are actually going with this have you never seen a resonable fit bship being killed buy single bomber ...
I say remove Local in 0.0 and make it an upgrade would make it realy interesting. You dont have to remove it just dont show ppl till they speak to be exact.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Valadeya+uthanaras
Scroll trhought the first few page, I can tell you a bomber can easely solo a lot of regular battleship setup
On an other note, the solution in removing afk cloaker is to remove local.... so you no longuer have flawless intel that make you post complain on CaoD about someone scaring you away from your mining/npcing.
I mean .... if you didnt know there was someone afk and cloaked in your system for 3 days like you say , you wouldn't think you are greifed and people are evil and stuff , you would mine and rat these days without problem
to the op, If you disagree ---`> empire level 4 are that way ... and stick with them liek the carebear you are
Val..... you always put a smile on my face. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for being you. You make our lives special and our hearts warm. I realize you are most likely Dutch or French (or similar TZ), but I would like to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, because tomorrow night when it's my turn to tell my 30+ relatives what I am most grateful for in life, you name will fall from my lips... Val... you complete me.
Edit: To the people whom subtlety is lost on, I am trolling Val in a friendly way (because I respect what he/she/it is able to do... effectively)
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2009.11.25 17:11:00 -
[63]
Omg dude!! I like have never heard of this issue before! Please, I beg you, tell me more about these cloakers.
I mean I suppose you could like set bait for them or perhaps defend your space?? I dunno just trying to help bro. Maybe just ignore them and accept your eventual doom? Heck, that's what I like to do.
Good luck with the cloakers |
Aalu Aullard
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Posted - 2009.11.25 17:49:00 -
[64]
Just curious... Has anyone has ever managed to kill afk cloaker? I mean that the cloaker went to work/sleep several hours before and when he finally got back he finds out that his ship and pod were destroyed.
If you have killed afk cloaker, can you please tell me what kind of mistake the cloaker made? While he was afk... And cloaked.. And in safespot...
I need this info so i dont do the same mistake myself while im afk.
Removing local from 0.0 would be really nice. Id fill my spare character slots with bomber alts and pocket them into enemy systems. And occasionally log them in to bombard something. Sounds cool...
Seems to me that bombers are new falcons. Everyone needs alt flying one.
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Arrador
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Posted - 2009.11.25 17:50:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Arrador on 25/11/2009 17:50:35
Originally by: Ethan Blue
Edited by: Ethan Blue on 25/11/2009 16:35:49
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Originally by: Pod Amarr
I cant believe ppl are actually going with this have you never seen a resonable fit bship being killed buy single bomber ...
I say remove Local in 0.0 and make it an upgrade would make it realy interesting. You dont have to remove it just dont show ppl till they speak to be exact.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Valadeya+uthanaras
Scroll trhought the first few page, I can tell you a bomber can easely solo a lot of regular battleship setup
On an other note, the solution in removing afk cloaker is to remove local.... so you no longuer have flawless intel that make you post complain on CaoD about someone scaring you away from your mining/npcing.
I mean .... if you didnt know there was someone afk and cloaked in your system for 3 days like you say , you wouldn't think you are greifed and people are evil and stuff , you would mine and rat these days without problem
to the op, If you disagree ---`> empire level 4 are that way ... and stick with them liek the carebear you are
Val..... you always put a smile on my face. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for being you. You make our lives special and our hearts warm. I realize you are most likely Dutch or French (or similar TZ), but I would like to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, because tomorrow night when it's my turn to tell my 30+ relatives what I am most grateful for in life, you name will fall from my lips... Val... you complete me.
Edit: To the people whom subtlety is lost on, I am trolling Val in a friendly way (because I respect what he/she/it is able to do... effectively)
bah... I want to put Val in the oven with the turkey.
edit: Better idea - I'll put Val in the boiling oil and deep fry him with the turkey.
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Belkadan
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Posted - 2009.11.25 18:05:00 -
[66]
OP, stfu. Stop whining. You don't like cloakers afk'ing, dock up and quit eve. Problem solved.
It's a valid tactic that can go both ways. You know, you can fit cloaks on your ships too! Take a page out of their book and do to the same to them.
Just because someone is doing something that you don't like, it doesn't mean the game is broken. It might however, mean that you're broken. You wanna be successful in eve, learn to adapt. Cause all the people that know this don't cry like b**ches on the forum about it.
CCP, props, cloakers work dandy, keep up the good work. :)
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World Director
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Posted - 2009.11.25 18:52:00 -
[67]
There's 2 solutions, first from CCP and it's AFK timer wich logs player out after some time doing nothing.
And there's a defense solution: Form gang with your corp/ally mates and keep ratting / mining / whatever so you can come help ech other.
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World Director
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Posted - 2009.11.25 19:07:00 -
[68]
TL:DR cloak is fine, owning scared carebears is fine, AFK for days however is not.
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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.11.25 19:23:00 -
[69]
You know, if they're afk... did you try moving one system over?
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Qi Teuf
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:09:00 -
[70]
I will agree with the OP that cloaking is NOT fine; however I make that statement with different reasons in mind. EVE uses cloaking in a different way than I have experienced in other games. An older Hi-Fantasy game (Shadowbane) had no "local" to tell you who was in the area, however you could get the skill of tracking which when used told you who was in the vacinity of your location; even stealthed characters showed up in the tracker you just couldn't "see" them. EVE shows us local, but does not give us a way to "see" the cloakers.
In line with getting rid of local to solve the cloaker problem (if a problem actually exists), I propose allowing the scanner to pick up cloaked ships when they are within max scan range of your ship. It is in this way that a cloaked ship may stay far away from others and never be touched, still able to disrupt trade/industry/ratting or be a general nuisance. Cloaks are so a ship can not be "seen" by another player, not so a ships equipment can't pick up signals of the cloaked ship.
Allowing scanners to pick up cloaked ships would not hurt a cloaker trying to get through a gate camp. In no way am I asking for probes to be able to pick up cloaked ships, only the on board scanner.
Imagine the following though under a no local system: A ratter is in the belt, with a group of 10 PvPers on standby to come and help at a moments notice. The ratter is attacked by a Recon, and calls for help. Help jumps into the system and warps to their corpmates help. The Recon not "knowing" of the other 10 that just jumped in (by way of no local) does not jump out of the belt, but keeps attacking. Suddenly 10 BS's fill the belt and easily tackle and kill the Recon..................To their surprise the Recon was bait and 30 other stealth ships decloak and wipe out the 10 corpmates that tried to help.
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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:17:00 -
[71]
That's a good way to enable macros to log off before they can get tackled. They are covert ships even on the same grid, and this doesn't need to change.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:46:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 25/11/2009 20:51:48
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
You know, if they're afk... did you try moving one system over?
If CCP wants people using upgraded systems, this probably wonŠt work since you have to constantly put effort in order to keep system upgrades at highest level. In other words, your only choice is to run huge gang, rat in pvp capable ship and hope hostiles donŠt have enough to attack you anyway. However, with 10 SB camper gang you can vaporize most ships outright no matter what kind of gang they have in system. 
And ratting in gang is counter-productive since you get less money per participant, only in wormhole space you need the other guys and loot is kind of worth it in right places...
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.11.25 21:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: A Ingus
It's not the cloak that is the problem it's the afk harrassment.
Bolded the pure comedy gold part.
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Gorefacer
Caldari
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.25 21:16:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
You know, if they're afk... did you try moving one system over?
Wow. The whole reason people don't like AFK cloakers is that there is no way to tell if they are AFK or not. If you don't get what's going on don't try and make or regurgitate senseless arguments. Yeah that AFK cloaker "poster" image counts too.
I don't rat or mine at all or even move about solo in a ship that's vulnerable much. On a personal level AFK cloakers do absolutely nothing to hinder my ability to play the game at all.
I still agree that AFK is the issue. If your active you should be able to cloak for days and have the impact that that will have. If not you shouldn't. If local is to be kept I always like the solution of having AFK cloaked ships dissapear from local after a set amount of inactivity and then have them show up again when they are active again and pressing stuff. This way if they want to stay a visible presence in system they just have to change direction while moving cloaked or something of that nature.
Setting up a new system without local could work as well. So could that system scanner idea someone mentioned. As well as many other ideas in the thousands of these posts before.
Most likely nothing will change anytime soon and Ill continue not to care on a practical level.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.11.25 22:19:00 -
[75]
Quote:
The whole reason people don't like AFK cloakers is that there is no way to tell if they are AFK or not
If he follows you one system over, chances are he isn't AFK.
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.11.25 22:50:00 -
[76]
I think I've read this thread before. The argument is circular and nothing of use ever happens.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.11.26 00:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Gorefacer
If local is to be kept I always like the solution of having AFK cloaked ships dissapear from local after a set amount of inactivity and then have them show up again when they are active again and pressing stuff. This way if they want to stay a visible presence in system they just have to change direction while moving cloaked or something of that nature.
Wouldn't work. It's very simple why it wouldn't too.
I'll let you figure out why not since the idea of "afk harrassment" doesn't strike you as comedic.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.11.26 01:11:00 -
[78]
Originally by: T***G0d
As it stands, cloaking is just fine. Local is the real problem in this thread.
This man speaks the truth!
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.11.26 05:06:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 26/11/2009 05:08:49
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
Quote:
The whole reason people don't like AFK cloakers is that there is no way to tell if they are AFK or not
If he follows you one system over, chances are he isn't AFK.
They wonŠt follow people because when they jump from a gate there is a small chance they get killed. :) Instead, in that other system there is another afk cloaker waiting for you. Or if there isnŠt, chances are that system you arrived in is low value system which canŠt compete with highsec income and thus isnŠt still worth the effort.
I also think local scouting is way too convenient (one person can operate multiple scouts very effectively).
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Securitas Protector
Stealthfield
Ihatalo Cartel Navy
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Posted - 2009.11.26 07:19:00 -
[80]
Hahaha, Stealthfield lives in Wildly Inappropriate's space and uses cloakies. Tista is in WI. Is this at us?
-sec
Proud to be shaych |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.26 07:39:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Its gonna be hilarious, with 20 anomalies in a mxed out systems a group of bombers can be in the system all day, probe out one anomaly via the shipscanner and sit next to a pveing ship without it being able to know. Bombers can then either launch enough bombs to kill it or simply open a covert cyno to bridge a gang ontop of the hostiles or even simpler a force recons scrambles the plexing ship and a gang comes in via a gate.
Before ppl could simply move to another system if there were cloakers dedicated to one system, but with one system being this important there are tactics that are very difficult to come by.
Baiting is the only solution, ie. having a bigger fleet on standbye, but how many days on end can you do this without seeing any action before the fleet shrinks below an effective size?
Adapt or die, i got my cov ops alt training for cyno 5 right now ;)
facepalm.jpg
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Mocam
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Posted - 2009.11.26 08:34:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Gorefacer
Edited by: Gorefacer on 25/11/2009 21:20:30
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
You know, if they're afk... did you try moving one system over?
Wow. The whole reason people don't like AFK cloakers is that there is no way to tell if they are AFK or not. If you don't get what's going on don't try and make or regurgitate senseless arguments. Yeah that AFK cloaker "poster" image counts too.
I don't rat or mine at all or even move about solo in a ship that's vulnerable much. On a personal level AFK cloakers do absolutely nothing to hinder my ability to play the game at all.
I still agree that AFK is the issue. If your active you should be able to cloak for days and have the impact that that will have. If not you shouldn't. If local is to be kept I always like the solution of having AFK cloaked ships dissapear from local after a set amount of inactivity and then have them show up again when they are active again and pressing stuff. This way if they want to stay a visible presence in system they just have to change direction while moving cloaked or something of that nature.
Setting up a new system without local could work as well. So could that system scanner idea someone mentioned. As well as many other ideas in the thousands of these posts before.
Most likely nothing will change anytime soon and Ill continue not to care on a practical level.
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: A Ingus
It's not the cloak that is the problem it's the afk harrassment.
Bolded the pure comedy gold part.
Nah not really.
Time out gigs won't really work. For more than a decade there have existed utilities (either software or hardware) that'll keep a client from timing out. A simply "move/click the mouse" type gig and they stay.
If you wish to find someone, you can do so -- form up a gang, pop out some cheap drones and go sweep an area in formation with your drones simply orbiting your craft. The drones extend your "knock them out of cloak" range and you can sweep around your systems pretty decently within a fairly short time window if you go with that intent in mind *AND* that person is parked AFK. If they're at their keyboard, they'll see you coming and simply move.
It's slower than some "40k omni-directional pop 'em out of cloak" tool but it'd work as long as you get close enough to them -- just like any lowsec gate camp has to deal with when someone pops through the gate. Get close enough to pop them out of cloak if they cloak up -- 2k range. With a gang, and drones out, you can stagger your group at 5k range from each other and fly around the area. How many in the gang = how wide a 'net' you are dragging to find them.
Where do you check? Well, where the hell would you park a ship AFK to spy on/annoy the locals? Check there first. If they aren't there then check the alternatives, etc... until you nail them or give up the attempt. Even if you had some 40km range sensor tool, you'd still have to fly all over the friggn system to find them but you'd probably end up trying that on your own vs with a gang.
The thing that gets to me is how much 'fear of the unknown' you'll read in this thread. The complaints seem to be by those that want more/better carebear protection than they get in empire space -- by a long shot. They seem to be more fearful of being attacked by a PvP ship than many/most of your highsec residents. "there's someone in the system that *MAY* attack me! I can't do anything!" -- hell, if that attitude were shared by the highsec residents, the markets would all shut down for fear of moving things around -- even highsec is riskier than what these folks seem to be asking after.
So there's a potential risk in the system. Suck it up and go about your daily routine. If you get thumped, you call it in and have folks come out to help or what not. That happens every-single-day in almost every system in empire space. Why the hell should nullsec space be safer?
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Seralder
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Posted - 2009.11.26 09:00:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Seralder on 26/11/2009 09:02:11
what you think about sentry drones on "active" mode in low-sec... ?
can this work?
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.26 09:50:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Here is some radical thinking for you...
Rat in PvP fits. 
Always be aligned
Don't join a failbear group that sits docked, and will come to aid people
This. The rats are easy enough that you should be able to rat in a PvP setup.
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aechos
Minmatar
Miners In Possession
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Posted - 2009.12.10 18:50:00 -
[85]
Golly gee how do W-space corps survive the constent struggle to mine and carebear? I mean 0.0 sounds way worse then wormholes with local telling them when there is a cloak in system and stations and stationary guns and system upgrades and static gate camps and static entrance/exits and no risk of losing everything when a scanner gets killed.... I am so glad I live in w-space it is at least safe from those mean cloakies....
With the sarcasm out of the way i just want to say, death to the toothless carebear and the indy whiners who can't effectively protect their claims. Oh and for the record I am a carebear except in the holes you better have teeth. Changing the game because you can not effectively problem solve will only ruin it in the end. Cloakies are a cost of doing business if you don't like it and can't figure out how to stop them from disrupting your operations move back to high sec and strip belts of veldspar. Then at least the low sec ore prices will go back up. These forums are a crutch for people who refuse to actively compete with other people..... I am sure in secondlife you could play with puppy dogs and sunshine because no matter what you change people will figure out how to adapt to the rules and you will be back here crying again. I have sat in a bomber in a wh for 4 days waiting for a chance to kill an indy miner. Do you really think adding mods or scanners or decloak timers is going to stop the people that effectively play bombers? You want to stop them put forth the effort and effectively solve it the answers are plain as day to my eyes. Cry less fix more or pay me a bil and IÆll think for you or pay my corp and we can protect your indiesà for a modest price of course
On a lighter note "Vala your my hero"
Quote:
I see you
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.10 19:01:00 -
[86]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Here is some radical thinking for you...
Rat in PvP fits.
Always be aligned
Don't join a failbear group that sits docked, and will come to aid people
This. The rats are easy enough that you should be able to rat in a PvP setup.
So how many of your pvp setups can solo one of the top anomalies?
The people saying you should have pvp'ers protecting the carebears are just plain stupid. Lets assume you play on average 1 hour per day, and server is up 23 hours per day. Then you need 23 people who are spending all their play time sitting arround wondering if the cloakers is afk or not, per afk cloakers. So effectively you need hunderds in your alliance who dont do anything besides sitting in station waiting if the afk cloaker is afk or not. And if he isnt afk he probably still escapes.
Btw did i just read someone suggesting to sweep an entire system to try to decloak the cloakers? WTF?
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Cyb3r D3ath
VAGAB0NDS
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:10:00 -
[87]
****in whinetard!
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Madla Mafia
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:38:00 -
[88]
Go back to high-sec!
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Jennitha Flowerwind
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:04:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Jennitha Flowerwind on 10/12/2009 21:05:50
humm just a few thoughts on this matter,
1- remove local like it is in wh's, and then the fused loss that goes with it, ie no market or contract access will make most pilots beg for local back very fast.
2- an afk cloaked player does no damage, makes no isk for themselves or there corp/alliance, builds nothing, defends nothing, moves nothing. all for the chance to glean some intell. Try to sour there intell or invalidate it.
But please stop crying about it, ccp has invested to much time and labor into expanding the cloaking function so face it its not going away.
3- 3 days the op mentioned that they had these 6 pilots cloaked and afk in there system? 3 days?...wtf? u trying to tell us u couldnt do a well orginized drone sweep of the system in 3 days? or perhaps a massive orginized fleet of smartbombing ships to elliminate the pest problem? I refuse to accept that you (the op) and all the pilots in ur area didnt have the ability to take the steps required to secure your system.
But that instead your to lazy to take the steps needed to do this, and that rather then do so you would rather post up on these magnificant forums your pettyness and cry to others about the injustices of other pilots playing a game the way they want to and not the way you want them to.
Grow the hell up and learn new tactics and when you have a problem fix it there is always an answer to every problem eve presents you with, however the solution may be worse then the problem was but thats eve.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:17:00 -
[90]
this thread is AWESOME!
troll thread of the year
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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