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Simply Put: LowSec Sucks

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Kosak Blood	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:03:00 - [1] I have been playing eve actively in lowsec over the last year. I have not tried joining my nullsec corp team because I do not commit time in even needed for ops. I have begun to question CCPs need for expansions rather than fixing the current game. This game is rampant with macroers in just about any lowsec system that borders hisec. Right now in Arzi there are about 20-30 macroers constantly running the same trips like clockwork. If you attack them, or scram them they still do nothing. I'd rather see a system that has 0 players than all macroers. The point of the local chat is to tell me who is in system, and now it is completely clogged up. So that is only a few systems, lets take a deeper look into lowsec. There are no miners. ever. I just did a 36 jump route in lowsec and found under 10 active players. This is usually the case. I highly doubt tyrannis will fix this, but hopefully in the future eve will give some incentive for people to mine in lowsec, or transport in lowsec. Heck, remove asteroid belts from hisec. I do hope to see some effort to address this because as far as im concerned, a majority of the lowsec systems are a complete waste of space.
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:15:00 - [2] hi cat here well of course low sex sucks lol cos and also that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank i think if we are going to fix low sc that means that we need to fix the problem of pirates too but i have tried but there are so many of the damed pirates that my trusty defencemobile isnt always up to the job but i am always interested in other ideas so that we can make the game more fun for everyone and not just pirates x My Facebook!
darkmaninov Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:17:00 - [3] I think someone needs a hug.
Marquis Zenas I.X Research	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:22:00 - [4] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails ... low sex sucks ... This thread well end well... -------------------------- Sigless
omgevenmoarfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Kosak Blood Right now in Arzi there are about 20-30 macroers constantly running the same trips like clockwork. If you attack them, or scram them they still do nothing. I'd say this post is a stealth "come to Arzi in the hopes of getting lots of easy kills, but in fact die to my waiting blob" post.
Sisohiv	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:24:00 - [6] Courier missions in low sec are the only ones worth doing. You can stab a 500K Industrial, run a 2nd client to pirate locals and make ISK while you are at it. Yes, Low sec sucks. CCP have tried in vain to make it more appealing but it still sucks. Avoid it. Most do.
Grainsalt Free-Corp Auxiliary	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:28:00 - [7] Welcome to 2005 ---
Poo Ka'hontas Red Eye Brigade Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:29:00 - [8] So... Have you (or the other low-sec whiners) ever stopped and realy thought about why there are so few in low-sec? Because you do realize that what you personally believe is fun, might not be fun for other people? Let me toss this crazy idea out there: What if (dramatic pause) those living in high-sec actually wanna play a internet-spaceship-game without being blobbed or hunted by "pirates"? Maybe someone actually like to run missions and mine in realtive peace..? Hi-sec = Crowded / Low-sec = not so crowded.. This tells me that most players (not counting the crazy 0.0'ers ) dont care about low-sec.. EVE is not only for pixel-badasses, it is for all kinds of peeps.. I myself can enjoy sitting in station and fit/re-fit a ship for several hours.. it makes me calm and i enjoy myself doing it ______________________________________________ My sig is on strike due to lack of attention!
TheBaptist Vori V Zakoni	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank You call us pirates, but this is our home, lowsec is where we choose to live, so we are merely protecting our systems. You go into nullsec and get ganked and don't complain, why should it be much more different in lowsec? ;)
Resonanza	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:30:00 - [10] Edited by: Resonanza on 19/05/2010 08:31:09 Originally by: Kosak Blood Heck, remove asteroid belts from hisec. How about this: Don't gank all those harmless traders, miners, mission runners and haulers who are trying to populate and animate "your" lowsec space, dear pirate? I mean, it is allways the same: The usual suspects - lame kiddo gate griefers , who are waiting for easy targets in low sec, trespassers, haulers - blow in a gank-group all those people up, who try to utilize lowsec. Then they complain that "they have no targets" (anymore)... Ohhh wonder. I tell you waht: - Eradicating level 4 mission from high sec will not help you - CAsting out asteroid belts from highsec will not help you - Banning all other carebears activities from highsec will not going to help you Ppl will simpl ystop playing AND paying Eve. You cannot force people to play teh game like you want it to be played. You can't people force to become YOUR victims. You say "adapt or die"!. Well i tell you this: Adapt or die of boredem. It is now time for to YOU, for the PVP players, to adapt.
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:32:00 - [11] Originally by: omgevenmoarfreemoniez Originally by: Kosak Blood Right now in Arzi there are about 20-30 macroers constantly running the same trips like clockwork. If you attack them, or scram them they still do nothing. I'd say this post is a stealth "come to Arzi in the hopes of getting lots of easy kills, but in fact die to my waiting blob" post. ^^ This. LOL. I think you nailed it. :) Doesn't mean we can't ban Russia in the meantime, of course, and get rid of all macro-miner once and for all. :P --
Babylonian Harlot	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:47:00 - [12] I live in low sec. But I'm a scout. I have no skills, ships or concerns. In my many hrs in lowsec, I have found it to be a bad place to mine and mission because pirates will hound you out. I find its a bad place to pirate because there are no targets. Its a good spot to build capital ships. Lots of carriers in low sec. Some stay there because the capsuleers dont want to lose them in 0.0 sec so they undock them every now and then and admire them. Then dock them and get out thier Battleship to blow up another free noob ship and send me back to the base I just undocked from. Low sec is like watching paint dry. Even mining in .5 will see more action. The odd officer spawn. Odd suicide runs against macro miners. Low sec is boring.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.05.19 09:04:00 - [13] If you added CONCORD to lowsec more people would go there. Just saying. In during simultaneous pirate and carebear tears. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.19 09:49:00 - [14] I think this is what the OP basically tries to say. ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.05.19 09:58:00 - [15] Low sec is fine the way it is, tbh. It is 0.0 that sucks the big one! But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.19 10:09:00 - [16] Youre not doing it right Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Nobzy	Posted - 2010.05.19 10:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Nobzy on 19/05/2010 10:15:13 Originally by: TheBaptist Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank You call us pirates, but this is our home, lowsec is where we choose to live, so we are merely protecting our systems. You go into nullsec and get ganked and don't complain, why should it be much more different in lowsec? ;) What are you protecting your systems from exactly? How does ransoming money from them, and then letting them go in to "your" system enforce this protection? Also to the OP, lowsec will be useless as long as there are pirates roaming there, free to kill off anyone entering it. I dont think the problem lies with worthless ore in lowsec, it's just that people don't like to enter there because they will die within 30 minutes. Someone else already said it, why the hell would you want to be food for the guns, is there anyone who thinks that's fun?
Babel Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:04:00 - [18] Yes, nerf macro-losec-couriers ... hilariously annoying As for lowsec mining; MMO - so peeps should really bring friends with guns to keep an eye on their bargey mates - Everyone wins, miners get ore, escort gets a decent chance of a fight. Knowing the Eve playerbase - duelling hotdropped Titans over a Jaspet roid coming soon ? :) . All generalisations are false - Discuss.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:08:00 - [19] Low sec sucks because the entire game design greately favors a hunter/killer over a PvEer.(simply put a pirate has a 100% chance to kill a PVEer unless the PVEer runs away wheneverer he isnt alone.) So no one in their right mind PVEs in low sec unless they are alone. The mechanics are just as stupid in high sec and 0.0 - but Cocord and Alliance defense forces keep you modestly safe. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Ghoest Low sec sucks because the entire game design greately favors a hunter/killer over a PvEer.(simply put a pirate has a 100% chance to kill a PVEer unless the PVEer runs away wheneverer he isnt alone.) So no one in their right mind PVEs in low sec unless they are alone. Well, from my limited PVE experiences. You can rat in 0.1 (this is how I fixed my sec) in a PVP fit BC with zero problems. I had people try to "pirate" me too, which was lol and broke the tedium, and got me some shiny killmails/T2 salvage on top. Of course, I could have just went away (it's rather easy to, after all, scanner and local exist), but it's not really fun that way. I didn't feel like game design favoured the other guy, if anything he though he was getting some poor ratter so I had element of surprise. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Free Folen	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Poo Ka'hontas ..(not counting the crazy 0.0'ers ).. That made me lol. You should try 0.0 and you would see y us crazy 0.0 love it there and y provi used to be more populated than hi-sec.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here well of course low sex sucks lol cos and also that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank i think if we are going to fix low sc that means that we need to fix the problem of pirates too but i have tried but there are so many of the damed pirates that my trusty defencemobile isnt always up to the job but i am always interested in other ideas so that we can make the game more fun for everyone and not just pirates x Exactly right, no low-sec pirate can complain about the state of low-sec after all they have made it what it is.
Aurum Bellator	Posted - 2010.05.19 12:45:00 - [23] My 2 cents . . . supply will always meet demand. Simply put, there isn't anything in lowsec worth enough to risk the pirates or organize a force to drive them out. Try adding crokite or spodumain in 0.3 systems and see what happens? Amp up mission rewards for missions wholly within 0.4 and below (and nerf highsec mission rewards). Maybe add a nerfed-down version of CONCORD . . . they respond with cruisers and frigates and don't have insta-death rayguns. If you make it worth their while they will go. If the rewards are good enough, people will organize against pirates in lowsec and drive them out (or attempt to). The problem is, you have NO RISK + HIGH REWARDS in 0.5 and above, and HIGH RISK + HIGH REWARDS in 0.4 to 0.1. Who would venture into 0.4 ? AUB
Fon Revedhort Monks of War Monks of War.	Posted - 2010.05.19 12:59:00 - [24] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 19/05/2010 13:02:20 Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 19/05/2010 13:01:35 Originally by: Ghoest Low sec sucks because the entire game design greately favors a hunter/killer over a PvEer.(simply put a pirate has a 100% chance to kill a PVEer unless the PVEer runs away wheneverer he isnt alone.) So no one in their right mind PVEs in low sec unless they are alone. The mechanics are just as stupid in high sec and 0.0 - but Cocord and Alliance defense forces keep you modestly safe. WTF are you talking about? You can either scan for probes and incoming ships or just stay aligned and warp out as soon as any ship appears in the overview. It's a 100% chance for a farmer to evade the punishment and not the other way round. Also there is no point in farming with a PvE ship. Go have plexes in PvP ones, like I do. PvE setups are excusable only for lvl 5 or null-sec plexes or for the WHs. Low-sec sucks cause there are NO DAMNED REASONS to LIVE there. This has been stated over and over again for the last years, but after Dominion released customizable farmvilles in o.o and after the folks tasted the WH farming, it became even more evident. Vote Elise Randolph for CSM and hope for the best. ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.19 13:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Low-sec sucks cause there are NO DAMNED REASONS to LIVE there. This has been stated over and over again for the last years, but after Dominion released customizable farmvilles in o.o and after the folks tasted the WH farming, it became even more evident. Fairly easy to find PVP and solid ISK-making opportunities if you are poor sound quite good to me. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Johnny Spacer School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.19 13:28:00 - [26] The only thing you can add to lowsec to make career highsecer's venture there is Concord. It's not an insult, just the truth. Whatever floats your boat, that's what I say.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb Nostradamus Effect	Posted - 2010.05.19 13:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/05/2010 13:33:35 Quote: Simply Put: I Suck fyp Edit: Low sec is a place to open PVP without CONCORD or nullsec politics. Leave it alone please.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.05.19 13:38:00 - [28] Make lowsec lucrative enough that it is more profitable than highsec taking into account regular losses. Carebears then have a reason to go there even though they will lose ships. Pirates then have targets to shoot who won't be scared off permanently by being killed. Won't force anyone anywhere, but will offer a solid reason for both segments of the playerbase to go there. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.05.19 14:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Poo Ka'hontas EVE is not only for pixel-badasses, it is for all kinds of peeps.. I myself can enjoy sitting in station and fit/re-fit a ship for several hours.. it makes me calm and i enjoy myself doing it Hey, you too. I do the exact same thing. Got dozens of fit ships now including Maurauders, Navy Ships, etc all just for fitting and re-fitting but never fly/lose them. I love it...
Grohalmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.05.19 14:19:00 - [30] Guys, seriously, STOP KILLING PEOPLE IN LOW SEC. If we want low sec to be fun, we have to STOP KILLING PEOPLE IN LOW SEC.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.19 14:19:00 - [31] Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 19/05/2010 14:19:56 Originally by: Grohalmatar Guys, seriously, STOP KILLING PEOPLE IN LOW SEC. If we want low sec to be fun, we have to STOP KILLING PEOPLE IN LOW SEC. u mad? PI EDIT Snipe! ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Aaron Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.19 14:20:00 - [32] Edited by: Aaron on 19/05/2010 14:21:14 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here well of course low sex sucks lol cos and also that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank i think if we are going to fix low sc that means that we need to fix the problem of pirates too but i have tried but there are so many of the damed pirates that my trusty defencemobile isnt always up to the job but i am always interested in other ideas so that we can make the game more fun for everyone and not just pirates x Hey cat, Hey OP, Yes, this is a difficult one. One I fear CCP cannot fix. People will have to accept the only way to battle piracy is to form some sort of group. Its a real shame that lots of people do not have a team player mentality these days, so much could be achieved. There will always be safety in numbers, all thats needed is some basic PVP skills, allot of PVP is just warp to X, primary X. As a community we just need to get together and do it. The main problem with team play is everyone wants to be leader, people are so quick to jump on you if you make 1 small mistake. Managing a large group of people is a difficult task. Cat, you seem dedicated to doing something like this, I strongly advise that you use the recruitment forums to boost your numbers. Maybe change your corp name to something people can relate to "Pirate Gankers" or "The Federation" its a long process , with determination and hard work Im sure you could do it. General Public, you really need to realise that you are very powerful if you work with a team.
Aqriue	Posted - 2010.05.19 14:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Kosak Blood constantly running the same trips like clockwork. If you attack them, or scram them they still do nothing. Which is precisely what you want? Some poor fat battleship running missions like an automaton and when attacked won't stand a chance because PVP > PVE ships. So, your complaining about exactly what you want . There is zero reason to go lowsec when EVE's lousy PVP system contains three locations to PVP in (gate/station/POS with thousands of other grid space available), stupidly active tank skills that don't work when everyone is flying buffer, and targets either dock up when the numbers are against them or bring out a neutrol repper which only seems to cause more stupid trolling on the forums of moving carebears to lowsec because you can't actually handle those that might put up a challenge and they might try to flee, which is a natural human motivation.
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.05.19 14:45:00 - [34] Carebears dock up even when the numbers aren't against them.
Squat Hardpeck State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.05.19 15:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Resonanza Edited by: Resonanza on 19/05/2010 08:31:09 Originally by: Kosak Blood Heck, remove asteroid belts from hisec. How about this: Don't gank all those harmless traders, miners, mission runners and haulers who are trying to populate and animate "your" lowsec space, dear pirate? I mean, it is allways the same: The usual suspects - lame kiddo gate griefers , who are waiting for easy targets in low sec, trespassers, haulers - blow in a gank-group all those people up, who try to utilize lowsec. Then they complain that "they have no targets" (anymore)... Ohhh wonder. I tell you waht: - Eradicating level 4 mission from high sec will not help you - CAsting out asteroid belts from highsec will not help you - Banning all other carebears activities from highsec will not going to help you Ppl will simpl ystop playing AND paying Eve. You cannot force people to play teh game like you want it to be played. You can't people force to become YOUR victims. You say "adapt or die"!. Well i tell you this: Adapt or die of boredem. It is now time for to YOU, for the PVP players, to adapt. Hi Ankh! waves
Zahira Wrath Amarr Dominion Strategic	Posted - 2010.05.19 15:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: omgevenmoarfreemoniez I'd say this post is a stealth "come to Arzi in the hopes of getting lots of easy kills, but in fact die to my waiting blob" post. ^^ This. LOL. I think you nailed it. :) Actually, Arzi is really really really really bad for macro haulers. I used to pirate in there. The place is worse than a ant hive. My corp tried our damnest to kill as many as we could but they kept coming. We eventually gave up after 5-6 months because all we really accomplished was a bunch of hauler kills, -10 sec status, and no change in macro runners.
Subuotah Amarr Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.19 15:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Crumplecorn Make lowsec lucrative enough that it is more profitable than highsec taking into account regular losses. Carebears then have a reason to go there even though they will lose ships. Pirates then have targets to shoot who won't be scared off permanently by being killed. Won't force anyone anywhere, but will offer a solid reason for both segments of the playerbase to go there. QFT!
True Sight THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.05.19 16:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Kosak Blood So that is only a few systems, lets take a deeper look into lowsec. There are no miners. ever. I just did a 36 jump route in lowsec and found under 10 active players. This is usually the case. I highly doubt tyrannis will fix this, but hopefully in the future eve will give some incentive for people to mine in lowsec, or transport in lowsec. Heck, remove asteroid belts from hisec. I do hope to see some effort to address this because as far as im concerned, a majority of the lowsec systems are a complete waste of space. You're right in most regards, but its a difficult thing to fix, look at it this way: High Sec: Your mining is 100% safe, as far as risk vs reward goes, it has the lowest turnover, but as you can easily go for many hours (and don't have to pay a lot of attention either, not like you're that likely to get ganked), so in the end, mining the low-end ores still turns a profit. Null Sec: Hugely profitable, ABC ores, mining ops with Rorquals compressing, a big group of hulks, you can mine enough ore to throw a dread together in a couple of hours. The risk here is still extremely well controlled: - Your likely in your alliance territory, you have advanced intel on a lot of enemy movement, you'll be in a through (2gate) or dead-end system, and have a scout sitting next door monitoring things, your mega rorqual is sitting safely inside a POS, compressing your ore - Your remote, your out of range of most stuff, and overall activity is low Now.. Low sec.. Ores are better than high-sec, no where near as good as null, you can't claim a system like in SOV and upgrade it to give you more ore, in the 0.4 systems you can't even anchor a POS easily because of standings requirements in a lot of places. TLDR: The risks mining in low-sec out-weigh the long-term profits of high-sec, and the reward isn't great enough over null-sec. Solutions: Most stuff been suggested, most suggestions are very bad "remove asteroids from high-sec", forcing people to do things they don't want to do isn't really a 'solution', its like saying "No one wants to play russian roulette, so lets tie them down and force them to do it" Other solution... how about low-sec mining ships? something with some mean defencive capability (tank, manouverable, warp core stab) less effective than a hulk, but able to hold its own (defensively only) thats purely an idea just off the top of my head tho. -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
Illwill Bill House of Tempers	Posted - 2010.05.19 16:11:00 - [39] Lowsec isn't just a location; it is a mindset. To improve lowsec, you need to create activities for the people who live there. Lowsec inhabitants generally enjoy PvP, thus, factional warfare was created. While it did not become a gigantic success that pulled half the hisec population into lowsec, there are now regular large blobs flying around, posing as both targets and threats. I would say that the lowsec population has increased since FW was introduced, so FW was successfull in getting more people into lowsec. Now, you apparently want moar people in lowsec. How many would you like to have in an average lowsec system, what do you want them to do, and why do you want them there? Most whines are from people who are crying because they got blown to bits by ebil piwats, or by ebil piwats who whine about the lack of carebears blow up. Neither of those two reasons are really enough to justify boosting lowsec, so what do we want to do? Personally, I see lowsec as sparsely populated wastelands, where bands of lawless, and those daring enough to stand up to them should thrive. The principle of lowsec, is that there is nobody to watch your back, apart from the hopeless gate/station guns (which are just fine, by the way). This inevitably results in horrible deaths for a lot poor souls who venture there, so moving carebear activities there is bound to fail. As others have stated, it would be a slaughter for a couple of weeks, until the carebears went back to hisec or cancelled their subscriptions. So what can we do to improve lowsec? What we need is more activities, that are lucrative enough to attract lowsec-dwellers. FW was successful in a way, as people are actively enjoying it, even though the amount of players dedicated to this is most likely much lower than CCP initially had hoped for. What else can we do? ISK making possibilities in lowsec are still limited, at least if you're not a part of FW. I would suggest activities doable solo, or by small groups. Preferably in small ships, as this counters the relative danger that being in lowsec imposes (possible area where AF's can be boosted?). Perhaps exploration missions. I also heard there are epic arcs done for ceptors. Perhaps this is something that can be applied in lowsec aswell? Exploration is also an area that has decent possibilities in lowsec. By improving conditions for the people who already live and thrive in lowsec, there will be increased numbers of people interested in moving there.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.19 16:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Kosak Blood lowsec... There are no miners. ever. It's as if miners dont wanna take their mining ship to face your gang of HACs. But why? It just doesnt make any sense! . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
True Sight THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.05.19 16:41:00 - [41] As far as my personal opinion goes, I'd like to see it that the sentry guns on stations and gates are at least able to take out solo or 2 man gangs. Its a huge jump from a 0.5 system, where you are 100% assured that, even should you be ganked, concord will give you retribution by vaporizing your attacker, whereas you jump into the next door 0.4 system, and a solo Heavy Interdictor can permanently tank the 2 sentry guns without flinching and infi-jam the poor guy that jumped through. I think removing the frustrating 'solo ganks on gates' would slightly improve traffic, it wouldn't make people flow like water into low-sec, but its at least not so bad if you jump into a system with 50 guys sitting there waiting to blow you up (been there, done that) As I said in my previous reply, there are already activities to take part in 0.0, mining.. ice mining etc, but risk vs reward is 'broken' You'd need a pretty brave force to set up a mining op in low sec, with scouts and a POS, bubbles are a double-edged sword, if you allowed them, mining ops could use them defensively, or course, the hostiles would then use them aggresively too, so it just doesn't work. -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.19 16:44:00 - [42] sounds to me like the problem is solo ****tards. Why would you fly into pirate space w/o a fleet? Sounds like people need to read strategy 101. This is clearly a signature.
Johnny Spacer School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.19 17:25:00 - [43] You can't fix lowsec for carebears. They don't like the low security part of it.
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2010.05.19 17:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Illwill Bill Edited by: Illwill Bill on 19/05/2010 16:22:48 Lowsec isn't just a location; it is a mindset. To improve lowsec, you need to create activities for the people who live there. Good lord, you read my mind. In regards to the stuff about mining in lowsec not being profitable over highsec: It damn well can be if you find a good Grav site and a quiet system. More common than you'd think. --- Out of Sinq
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.19 18:17:00 - [45] I give the OP a 6/10 on the trolling scale for continuing this discussion to a second page! There is plenty to do in low-sec. PvP, from small gang skirmishes to fighting over moon gold in capital ship fleets, takes place all of the time. Exploration can produce some nice results, as well. And there are good mission agents in low-sec, too. Best of all: there are a bunch of empty systems into which a player can move if a player isn't happy with his or her current location! Amazing.
Blnukem 192 Amarr Clan Gold Viper	Posted - 2010.05.19 19:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Kosak Blood ...The point of the local chat is to tell me who is in system, and now it is completely clogged up... Simple fix. Remove local.
Flein Sopp	Posted - 2010.05.19 19:54:00 - [47] From the hisec hugger point of view: There are only so many times you can be arsed to get blown up in the midst of difficult storyline missions in losec until you simply find something better to do.
Luminary Xion Gallente Unknown-Heroes	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:09:00 - [48] Sometimes, lo-sec offers low-risk / extremely high-reward in the form of shortened routes to different parts of space. I like cloaky ships for transport of goods to meet a time critical deadline. Now if only my Obelisk could cloak and/or warp cloaked ...
Kosak Blood	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:14:00 - [49] So then to those who claim that pirates kill lowsec. What ever happened to mining ops? How about the mining corps have a reason to enter lowsec with guards. I never said that lowsec mining or transporting should be a solo task- but there should be reason to go through lowsec at the risk of pirates. This is the same risk that I take while solo hunting in a non cloaked ship. Miners should have to take the same risk or fleet up while mining themselves into the trillions
Kosak Blood	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Blnukem 192 Originally by: Kosak Blood ...The point of the local chat is to tell me who is in system, and now it is completely clogged up... Simple fix. Remove local. This should also be done in lowsec and nullsec. I just think it ruins the point of space combat- no one uses it and it's just a dead giveaway.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Subuotah Originally by: Crumplecorn Make lowsec lucrative enough that it is more profitable than highsec taking into account regular losses. Carebears then have a reason to go there even though they will lose ships. Pirates then have targets to shoot who won't be scared off permanently by being killed. Won't force anyone anywhere, but will offer a solid reason for both segments of the playerbase to go there. QFT! I too will QFT. As a long time player having spent life in high sec, low sec and 0.0 at different times I can in all honesty say that people need more rewards vs effort to live in low sec. Punishments for living in high sec as well as more punishments and nerfs to pirating are not needed at all. More incentives and player tools to police low sec are a much better options.
Johnny Spacer School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:44:00 - [52] I guess I just don't understand the travesty of not having dangerous areas (either low or null) super populated.
Liorah	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Kosak Blood So then to those who claim that pirates kill lowsec. What ever happened to mining ops? How about the mining corps have a reason to enter lowsec with guards. I never said that lowsec mining or transporting should be a solo task- but there should be reason to go through lowsec at the risk of pirates. This is the same risk that I take while solo hunting in a non cloaked ship. Miners should have to take the same risk or fleet up while mining themselves into the trillions Lowsec is primarily PvP, with very few restrictions. To be anything other than destroyed in Lowsec, it is best that you travel in a group and employ the use of stealth. Since grouping is adviseable, you bring 4 or 5 people and set up in a grav site to mine. Mining is a slow process, so you would ordinarily be there for an hour or more to make the excursion worthwhile. The PvP groups who are not gatecamping have become very adept at using the D-scanner and probes to locate anyone lingering in the system, outside of a station, within a few minutes. That time is drastically reduced if your target is sitting in a belt or at a planet. You're alone, so there's no reason for the group of 5 or 6 to fear you. Besides, they'd never get anything done if they ran from every ship that entered the system. Once you find that group of 5 or 6 people mining or babysitting, and scout out what ships they are using, you know what you need to bring to fight them quickly and decisively. Suddenly Local spikes. Tacklers warp to the scout who has moved in closer to a minimum safe distance. Mining ships and haulers get bumped and pointed because even aligned, they can't accelerate any faster than molasses moving uphill in the winter. Your recon scout also uncloaks and points targets (or lights a cyno for a hotdrop). Half a second later, the rest of the attack fleet finishes warping in and destroys what didn't get away (ie: the ships that couldn't accelerate from 0 to warp speed in a few seconds). The advantage is 100% in the attacker's favour in this situation, and in any situation where people need to sit still for more than a couple minutes. It's worth emphasizing this point, since it's glossed over by the Lowsec dwellers. You can bring a bigger group with a bigger guard, and you'll just be a bigger target for an even bigger group. It's a never-ending battle which is always in favour of the attackers because they choose the time of the fight, and they choose the rules of the encounter. The miners have to stay for an extended period of time, or it's not even worth mining in the first place, and they have to say on constant watch, giving near 100% attention the entire time to hope to be able to get away with minimal losses. To be safe in Lowsec as it exists now, you have to be: 1) large enough that you can bust any gatecamp you may run through 2) be mobile, and never sitting still for more than a minute or two (unless you're gatecamping) In short, Lowsec as it exists now, is only for the Hunter. The Hunted have learned this, and stay away. So the Hunters whine about not having targets to hunt, but they whine even louder if you suggest changing the rules. So the potential that exists in Lowsec is never realized.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.19 20:59:00 - [54] @Liorah This is why I advocate the addition of tools to help players police low sec. A complete revamp of the bounty hunting system would be a great place to start.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.05.19 21:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Crumplecorn Make lowsec lucrative enough that it is more profitable than highsec taking into account regular losses. Carebears then have a reason to go there even though they will lose ships. Pirates then have targets to shoot who won't be scared off permanently by being killed. Won't force anyone anywhere, but will offer a solid reason for both segments of the playerbase to go there. nah, even if stuff was more lucrative, I believe that many would still prefer hi-sec boost to population? probably, but not much. thing is, pirates are victims of their own success. you kill enough people, and they will stop coming to your patch of ground. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.05.19 21:45:00 - [56] Originally by: Grimpak you kill enough people, and they will stop coming to your patch of ground. Even if it is still more profitable to go there? ... Yeah, you're probably right. But I still think it is the best solution. If it won't work, nothing will. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
Spurty Caldari D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.05.19 22:41:00 - [57] weirdly enough, the issue is that low sec is just too watered down resource wise. can't grind enough LP fast enough to recover from loss forcing you into a dumb cycle you can't get out of to actually buy, cut and insure your pvp ship. highsec removes that restriction on your income so you get out of the cycle sooner and for longer. LP for goodies to sell ratting for sec status ganking best income lowsec just isn't important except to allow some less worry for cap pilots. as the average pilots skill points reaches 30mill, 1.0 systems are needed less and less. hope to see ccp degrade sec levels on systems over time based on population density that or dynamic tax system for much the same reasons. more people, more strain on system resources so higher taxes to provide them. Originally by: Hurley I WAS NOT QUITTING SoT AND WAS NOT THINKING ABOUT JOINING IT. PL/SoT MADE A MISTAKE AND ARE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT OR FIX IT.
kerjin Minmatar Atomic Warfare	Posted - 2010.05.19 22:41:00 - [58] 22:36:43 Notify The stargate denies you permission to jump into this 0.5 solar system because your character is over thirty days old.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.05.19 22:44:00 - [59] Even making highsec literally inaccessible won't make lowsec good, it'll just be a bad place you're stuck in (until you quit) instead of a bad place you avoid. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.05.19 23:26:00 - [60] Originally by: Crumplecorn Yeah, you're probably right. But I still think it is the best solution. If it won't work, nothing will. improving it will only go so far. best solution I've seen by far is a sort of bounty hunting system that allows for a more proactive pirate hunting. combined with improving low-sec, this should be the best bet. if not, it will, at the very least, make more pirates fighting between themselves for the bounties. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Teinyhr Minmatar Nor'akho Matar	Posted - 2010.05.19 23:40:00 - [61] You'd need to make easily killable 1-2 million ISK belt rats to make low-sec lucrative enough. Just did a few tests today with cheap ships, went to rat and mission in low-sec. Not two minutes went by before some asshat came to shoot you in the face while you were fighting rats. At least both of them attacked solo and not lolgank, too bad T1 PvE fitted cruisers don't offer much resistance to T2 fitted T2 cruisers and Tier 2 BC's.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.19 23:52:00 - [62] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/05/2010 23:53:45 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/05/2010 23:52:49 Originally by: Teinyhr Just did a few tests today with cheap ships, went to rat and mission in low-sec. Not two minutes went by before some asshat came to shoot you in the face while you were fighting rats. At least both of them attacked solo and not lolgank, too bad T1 PvE fitted cruisers don't offer much resistance to T2 fitted T2 cruisers and Tier 2 BC's. It's called local and d-scan and there is 0 reasons why you should ever be actually caught unless you actually wish to. If it's not blue it's hostile; if after 30-45 seconds the ship isn't on d-scan it's very likely it's cloaked which means either covops scout or lolPilgrim or something else of the sort and being aligned is a really good idea (of course, if the character is very young then you can typically just ignore it, a 3 day old character won't be in a covops or recon). If you're not on a celestial but rather in deadspace, drop can at entrance, get away from entrance, watch d-scan for cloaky ships uncloaking and probes ; remember to drop a can at the enrance so it has very good odds of keeping cloaky ships decloaked for a longer period. Closeby places are more populated places. If you are not doing something which requires you to move in a certain direction then you align to station or w/e. Basic survival tips. Lowsec will never ever be lucrative for people who can't take care of their own safety. Local and d-scan combo are very powerful intel tools, learn to use them. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:08:00 - [63] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Crumplecorn Yeah, you're probably right. But I still think it is the best solution. If it won't work, nothing will. improving it will only go so far. best solution I've seen by far is a sort of bounty hunting system that allows for a more proactive pirate hunting. combined with improving low-sec, this should be the best bet. if not, it will, at the very least, make more pirates fighting between themselves for the bounties. This is what I have been saying. Simply punishing hi sec people for being in hi sec will drive them from the game. Nerfing piracy and preventing gate camps with arbitrary rules hurts pvp and piracy which is no good as well. Driving the pirates off the gates will only force them to even more actively hunt low sec mission runners, miners and plex runners. This in turn makes low sec even less viable to live in. Heavily boosted rewards for living in lo sec combined with a complete revamp of the bounty system putting tools in the hands of players to police lo sec is a much better combination. Giving players a reason to band together and protect themselves will keep them in lo sec and in turn give the pirates more targets and fights which is what they all want. Now we just need a working and severely improved bounty hunting system which is a whole other topic all together.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:14:00 - [64] Low sec is a bastard child that should be taken out behind the woodshed and shot. Time to put that poor exercise in social dynamics to bed. If you are a carebear, you'd be stupid to go wandering about 0.4 in a hulk. Solo ratting is fine, as for the most part, losec is empty and the BS spawns pay OK. If you want a little PVP action, you'll be SOL as once you jump through the gate in a small gang fit to fight all the ganksters will dock up and that's the last you will see of them. So low security space is good for one thing. Gate ganking. How lame is that? What a waste of a huge swath of real estate. Time to take the bull by the horns and turn 0.4 and lower into 0.0 like it should have been in the first place. Better yet, just get rid of the whole 0.0 to 1.0 altogether. Make it two areas. Concord controlled and player controlled. That's all that's needed. Mr Epeen
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:19:00 - [65] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 20/05/2010 00:22:02 Originally by: Cpt Branko It's called local and d-scan and there is 0 reasons why you should ever be actually caught unless you actually wish to. If it's not blue it's hostile; if after 30-45 seconds the ship isn't on d-scan it's very likely it's cloaked which means either covops scout or lolPilgrim or something else of the sort and being aligned is a really good idea (of course, if the character is very young then you can typically just ignore it, a 3 day old character won't be in a covops or recon). If you're not on a celestial but rather in deadspace, drop can at entrance, get away from entrance, watch d-scan for cloaky ships uncloaking and probes ; remember to drop a can at the enrance so it has very good odds of keeping cloaky ships decloaked for a longer period. Closeby places are more populated places. If you are not doing something which requires you to move in a certain direction then you align to station or w/e. Basic survival tips. Lowsec will never ever be lucrative for people who can't take care of their own safety. Local and d-scan combo are very powerful intel tools, learn to use them. This is how I can tell you don't mission much yourself. What you say sounds really good on paper.... Until you actually try it out and end giving up because this just isn't reasonable. Let's see. Quote: It's called local and d-scan and there is 0 reasons why you should ever be actually caught unless you actually wish to. Docking every time a non-blue enters system while carebearing is extremely inefficient. If you see probes on d-scan then dock. And be prepared to stay docked for a good while. In other words, also inefficent. And yeah, you could go to another system with crap agents and crap rewards. But then then why not go to hi sec and find a crap agent and slowly build your riches there? Quote: If it's not blue it's hostile; if after 30-45 seconds the ship isn't on d-scan it's very likely it's cloaked which means either covops scout or lolPilgrim or something else of the sort and being aligned is a really good idea So then, if non-blue enters system you have 30 to 45 seconds to stop what you're doing and dock. If 30-45 seconds have passed it means hostile is in cloaky and you should run and dock... Or at least stay aligned. Have you ever "stayed aligned" while approaching the next acceleration gate on a mission at the same time? When you've figured this one out please let me know. And no, you cannot "stay aligned" at zero velocity. You'd know this if you've ever tried putting to use your "advice". Have you tried mining while "staying aligned"? . Give it a try and tell me how your advice goes. Quote: If you're not on a celestial but rather in deadspace, drop can at entrance, get away from entrance, watch d-scan for cloaky ships uncloaking and probes ; remember to drop a can at the enrance so it has very good odds of keeping cloaky ships decloaked for a longer period. If they busted your mission might as well forget about it for a couple of hours, days even! If it had mission-critical loot, then you're better off just forfeiting. Let me know how your isk-making goes during that time :P. Quote: Lowsec will never ever be lucrative for people who can't take care of their own safety. Before accusing people of not wanting to take care of themselves put your blind advice to the test. If someone is in lo sec to make a better living there than hi sec then they're gonna want to make BETTER ISK FOR THEIR TIME. Let that sink in for a bit. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:35:00 - [66] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Before accusing people of not wanting to take care of themselves put your blind advice to the test. If someone is in lo sec to make a better living there than hi sec then they're gonna want to make BETTER ISK FOR THEIR TIME. Let that sink in for a bit. Re-read what he said. He said "can't" protect themselves, not "want" to protect themselves. Big difference here.
Vilgan i'Lakin Pirates and Ninjas	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:41:00 - [67] risk/reward with lowsec just seems borked. It also seems hard to fix, since 0.0 seems to always offer similar rewards to lowsec but better. Lowsec ores AND 0.0 ores. Better LP from missioning. Better LP rewards. Better exploration sites. Imo, lowsec needs to offer some sort of risk/reward that is different than what is available in high/0.0. FW is a good start, but its not enough and it also needs some tweaks to encourage fights (imo). Make it so that lowsec combat missions w/ lowsec destination systems give super huge amounts of LP. Or give them a chance to drop +6 skill implants. or whatever. I think a lot of people are willing to go into places where risk is much higher IF the rewards go up. 0.0 and wormholes seem to be fine in this respect, while lowsec gets pretty much ignored.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.20 01:00:00 - [68] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/05/2010 01:02:09 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Safety ruins my ISK/hr. If safety ruins your ISK/hr stay in highsec. And a novel idea; in lowsec, if someone is hunting you, you can actually just gank them instead (unless they have too many people to handle). Then resume doing your merry business. Most of the time while ratting sec (which, bar a radar site now and then or complex which i find wh scanning, is the only PVE I do really) it's like this: happily ratting local +1 vagabond on scan heat scram, heat mwd, hope vagabond comes vagabond off scan local -1 happily ratting As for the "im gonna stay docked because someone might pvp me" crowd, they can freely stay in highsec. However, saying "you cannot be safe in lowsec" is idiocy, because you really can avoid getting killed quite well. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jo Deth	Posted - 2010.05.20 01:30:00 - [69] Pirate corp moves into low sec system, secures the borders and sets up shop. Advertises low sec opportunity to make money to the pve crowd. Pve crowd says "yeah right", you're just gonna blow me up. Ah but pirates have a plan. We will offer protection for a reasonable fee. Mission runners and miners ponder this a say "what the heck, lets give them a shot". After a while the the pve doods realize they're makin bank and the protection fee is easy to make. Next system over a rival pirate gang see all the activity in the next system and thinks "bro there be carebears to plunder." So they grab the rum and a few cannon balls and head on over. Little do they know whats in store... So now the local gang gets kills, they dont have to mission run for cash, pve guys make money. Heck maybe those guys in the next system get jealous, challenge the locals for thier turf and take over operations. Yeah you could trick the pve guys, but that doesn't populate low sec. tl;dr pve pays for protection in low sec, pirates police system of all infidels (read pvp)
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.05.20 02:56:00 - [70] Ah one of my favorite topics. Lowsec sucks for the same reason the tropics of the Atlantic and Pacific would have sucked IF the real seagoing pirates were out there killing everything that moved. They didn't, of course. They went after the truly valuable targets, the complacent, and the corrupt. But they didn't attack every fishing boat, every ferry, every single native fisherman, or bombard every coastal or port town. They engaged those who had something worthwhile to take, and the navies that pursued them. EvE Lowsec is everything that moves getting attacked. Lowsec back in 2006 was good. I used to mission there in a rookie ship and T1 cruisers and never got bothered. It was the big fish they were after. Now, even in high sec, I am careful with my all-T2 Flying Piniata. The bad signs were just coming in in low sec back around those days. There were systems where people were just starting to kill everything that moved, and made entire websites making fun of everybody they killed. This is not playing a game. This is blaming the world for that time your crazy uncle or mothers boyfriend diddled you. But as before, CCP means "Crowd Control Productions" and as the world goes to hell and Schadenfreude fueled by impotent rage of the victims (most people who are angry but too cowardly to do anything real about it), becomes a national sport, every faction ship getting lolgankged is one less new car getting keyed or tired getting slashed. Every noob tricked out into lowsec after being befriended and ganked is one less person getting their face bloodied in the back of the playground. One corp being scammed bloodless is one less estranged boy or girl finding their stuff in the driveway. Every gallon of tears poured out is one less neighborhood cat tortured to death. Good job CCP.
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.05.20 03:40:00 - [71] the flaw with the "band together " idea is the fact that if i need to band together with say, 3 others the rewards have to be 400% of highsec + enough to cover ship losses or it's a waste of my time, if the reward isn't the reason I'mthere increasing it at all is irrelevant. the only thing worth doing in losec is ganking or something quick like ratting or fast scan sites. everything else is suicide
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2010.05.20 04:28:00 - [72] People will never go into lowsec so long as there is risk involved, and its as simple as that. Want to remove all the asteroid belts from high sec and move them into lowsec? Fine, 98% of player mining will cease. Want to move all agents to lowsec? Fine, implant sources will evaporate and no one will be plugged anymore. Want to move ice from high sec to lowsec? Fine, see mining Nothing you do to lowsec will ever compensate for the risk involved; industry thrives on security. Quite frankly, if you want lowsec population to improve unsubscribe to EVE, and take all your solo PvP buddies with you. The entire solo PvP relationship is wholy onesided in lowsec anyways, 9/10 the people you kill dont have the means to fight back (due to their own actions, of course), so whatever perversion satisfaction you guys get out of lowsec can't be any different then masterbation. So go jerk of quietly and stop crying about how you can't get any action in EVE.
Yerotun	Posted - 2010.05.20 05:04:00 - [73] All these posts about low sec........ ALL I CAN SAY IS YOU REJECTS ARE DOING IT ALL WRONG.... There is loads of isk in low sec, as you say it is desolate.....so if it is so desolate, then why worry about the pirates? IF YOU REJECTS WOULD LEARN TO USE YOUR MAP AS A TOOL AND NOT A PRETTY THING TO LOOK AT, you might just realize there are ways around the normal gate camps, sometimes you still catch that roaming one, but that is part of the romance (or for you rejects) the thrill of low sec. I have played probably 90% of my game time spread across 3 accounts in low sec, no I am not an ebil gate camping pirate with my falcon alt...oh wwwaaaiit... Anywhoooooooooooooooo will let you rejects continue to play a stupid grind the same 5 missions for the 16000000000000000000000000000000000000000 time. Or blast the same puny asteroids for the 300000 day in a row. Idiots, there is so much fun to be had in the game if youd get over your hoarding nature (idiots its your carebear faults the market is broken to banana farts and back.) . Go lose some ships, play the game the way the devs envisioned it. I wish theyd just get rid of all missions, if you really need isk, just go rat, or mine, or plex, or wh, or scam, or help, or hunt pirates or or or or or or GET THE EFFFFFFFF OUTTA HIGH SEC?!!??!? All of these low sec is broken threads are kinda played out, ITS MORE LIKE YOU RISK ADVERSE ARE THE BROKEN PART OF THE GAME.idiots.
Yerotun	Posted - 2010.05.20 05:14:00 - [74] Originally by: Derovius Vaden , so whatever perversion satisfaction you guys get out of lowsec can't be any different then masterbation. So go jerk of quietly and stop crying about how you can't get any action in EVE. Prolly get more action when I sleep at night rubbing myself on my ladies hind parts, but anyway.......What perverse satisfaction is it that I get outta low sec? The fact that CCP constantly makes high sec just like low sec but without the pew pew? You shouldn't have a pos in high sec, that is for cowards and those that don't want to socialize...No individual should be able to own a pos, that is the reason they increased the price of them way back when. Anyone remember buying tons of small towers for what 20m a whack it was. They changed that becasue everyone and their brother was getting them and they were clogging things up because people would just place them at moons and never fuel them, then carebears cry about how long it takes to blow up said pos (a small no more then 15 mins if not reinforced, that is without caps..) Anyway, if the stupid risk adverse would get out there and play with everyone else, (point being, the only ones masturbatin in eve are the high sec dwellers) the market would be better, the carebears wouldn't be so easily made to emorage, and there would just be more lols for everyone even the losers. You get to a point where you can just laugh about losses, why you ask, because it is pixels, idiots
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Jo Deth Pirate corp moves into low sec system, secures the borders and sets up shop. Advertises low sec opportunity to make money to the pve crowd. Pve crowd says "yeah right", you're just gonna blow me up. Ah but pirates have a plan. We will offer protection for a reasonable fee. Mission runners and miners ponder this a say "what the heck, lets give them a shot". After a while the the pve doods realize they're makin bank and the protection fee is easy to make. Next system over a rival pirate gang see all the activity in the next system and thinks "bro there be carebears to plunder." So they grab the rum and a few cannon balls and head on over. Little do they know whats in store... So now the local gang gets kills, they dont have to mission run for cash, pve guys make money. Heck maybe those guys in the next system get jealous, challenge the locals for thier turf and take over operations. Yeah you could trick the pve guys, but that doesn't populate low sec. tl;dr pve pays for protection in low sec, pirates police system of all infidels (read pvp) Except pirates aren't interested in protecting carebears for isk. They're interested in lolganking them and anything that moves in lo sec. They rather have a killmail than isk. And when **** stops moving in lo sec, then they whine that nothing's coming by for them to kill. Like Cpt. Branko, they give ill advice on how you could be making tons of isk even when tyou're docked up or running away from pirates. This just isn't true. In lo sec, unless you're a pirate, you're either docked up/cloaked NOT making isk, or you're attempting to make that isk and dying while at it, hence not making better-than-hi-sec isk. If you truly believe you can control your safety AND make isk in lo sec GO TRY IT YOURSELF. Lo sec is for pirates. It's designed for piracy to thrive. Pirates know where the good mission agents are. All they need is 10 seconds to probe you out without you ever seeing a probe on scan. They won't tell you this. They'll tell you it's easy to stay safe, and to go to the crappy systems with crappy agents. They'll tell you to come on down and carebear to your heart's content. And when you do go, get ganked, and come back to say what happened they'll call you a liar and say it was your own fault. And the cycle begins again. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:16:00 - [76] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 If you truly believe you can control your safety AND make isk in lo sec GO TRY IT YOURSELF. Mmm, how do pirates do it then? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Angeli Domini Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:21:00 - [77] Originally by: Jo Deth Pirate corp moves into low sec system, secures the borders and sets up shop. Advertises low sec opportunity to make money to the pve crowd. Pve crowd says "yeah right", you're just gonna blow me up. Ah but pirates have a plan. We will offer protection for a reasonable fee. Mission runners and miners ponder this a say "what the heck, lets give them a shot". After a while the the pve doods realize they're makin bank and the protection fee is easy to make. Next system over a rival pirate gang see all the activity in the next system and thinks "bro there be carebears to plunder." So they grab the rum and a few cannon balls and head on over. Little do they know whats in store... So now the local gang gets kills, they dont have to mission run for cash, pve guys make money. Heck maybe those guys in the next system get jealous, challenge the locals for thier turf and take over operations. Yeah you could trick the pve guys, but that doesn't populate low sec. tl;dr pve pays for protection in low sec, pirates police system of all infidels (read pvp) So.. You just invented 0.0?
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:31:00 - [78] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 20/05/2010 12:34:20 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 If you truly believe you can control your safety AND make isk in lo sec GO TRY IT YOURSELF. Mmm, how do pirates do it then? Simple. Pirates dont run missions as their primary source of income. They do it to kill time or out of boredom while prey comes into range. They don't do it to make better isk from that of hi sec. Like you, they come here to profess running lvl 4s in their PVP-fit Deimos is "profitable" but they have no idea what it is they're talking about. Put simply, you have no idea what it is to run missions for profit. You may do 1 or 2 to kill time and then feel like you can speak of it like a mission pro, even claiming that doing missions on PVP fits and scanning every friggin 5 seconds is "easy" and will keep you safe and whatnot. But you really know nothing. It's like me telling you how to pirate. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
KaraStarbuckThrace	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:37:00 - [79] Yerotun - just knowing that there people with your mentally in low sec puts me off from going. Good Job
Zverofaust Gallente Locus Industries	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:48:00 - [80] I agree partially. The only reason for a person to live in lowsec right now is PvP or macroing courier missions in warpstabbed frigates. What I'd like to see is expanding options for small to medium-sized corporations concerning available isk-making oppurtunities in lowsec. Mining, exploration, production, etc. I'd like to see corporations "claiming" systems and creating permanent presences there, as a sort of small-scale 0.0 without the 1000-man blobs, bubbles and pos-bashing, as well as giving more pew oppurtunities for lowsec pirates and PvPers like myself. That said, making lowsec as "safe" as highsec as a way to attract people is a wretched idea. Just make the oppurtunities for isk-making greater, and they will come. Also, make lowsec courier missions require at least a cruiser if not an actual indy ship. Hundreds of macroers running them in warpstabbed frigs is just stupid. ___________________________________________ The Hero of Kamela The Terror of Tararan The Executioner of Ezzara
Wolfgang Jager Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Aurum Bellator Simply put, there isn't anything in lowsec worth enough to risk the pirates or organize a force to drive them out. Try adding crokite or spodumain in 0.3 systems and see what happens? Amp up mission rewards for missions wholly within 0.4 and below (and nerf highsec mission rewards). This...that's really all there is to it. Lowsec has absolute crap for belt rats, worthless minerals and an insignificant boost to mission pay outs...so why bother adding any risk whatsoever to play there? Nullsec is actually a good deal safer than lowsec in most places unless there is an active war in the area and at least there the rewards are actually higher.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War Monks of War.	Posted - 2010.05.20 14:50:00 - [82] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 20/05/2010 14:52:12 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 20/05/2010 12:34:20 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 If you truly believe you can control your safety AND make isk in lo sec GO TRY IT YOURSELF. Mmm, how do pirates do it then? Simple. Pirates dont run missions as their primary source of income. They do it to kill time or out of boredom while prey comes into range. They don't do it to make better isk from that of hi sec. Like you, they come here to profess running lvl 4s in their PVP-fit Deimos is "profitable" but they have no idea what it is they're talking about. Put simply, you have no idea what it is to run missions for profit. You may do 1 or 2 to kill time and then feel like you can speak of it like a mission pro, even claiming that doing missions on PVP fits and scanning every friggin 5 seconds is "easy" and will keep you safe and whatnot. But you really know nothing. It's like me telling you how to pirate. Now that's exactly the problem - most want to farm, farm and FARM their damned missions. If you don't insist on making mission whoring your only activity - yeah, hard to imagine this - you can actually have quite a good time. That's the way the game's ment to be played. At least when CCP gets the things fixed so that low-sec missions are at least twice as profitable as of high-sec. ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Angeli Domini Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.20 14:55:00 - [83] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Waaah, everyone - play the game as I do!
Fon Revedhort Monks of War Monks of War.	Posted - 2010.05.20 15:04:00 - [84] Originally by: Angeli Domini Look, I can poast on whorums. So what? ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
JASON W0RTHING Nomad LLP Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.20 15:15:00 - [85] Originally by: Subuotah Originally by: Crumplecorn Make lowsec lucrative enough that it is more profitable than highsec taking into account regular losses. Carebears then have a reason to go there even though they will lose ships. Pirates then have targets to shoot who won't be scared off permanently by being killed. Won't force anyone anywhere, but will offer a solid reason for both segments of the playerbase to go there. QFT! Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
Donny Maurasi	Posted - 2010.05.20 15:23:00 - [86] Originally by: Poo Ka'hontas So... Have you (or the other low-sec whiners) ever stopped and realy thought about why there are so few in low-sec? Because you do realize that what you personally believe is fun, might not be fun for other people? Let me toss this crazy idea out there: What if (dramatic pause) those living in high-sec actually wanna play a internet-spaceship-game without being blobbed or hunted by "pirates"? Maybe someone actually like to run missions and mine in realtive peace..? Hi-sec = Crowded / Low-sec = not so crowded.. This tells me that most players (not counting the crazy 0.0'ers ) dont care about low-sec.. EVE is not only for pixel-badasses, it is for all kinds of peeps.. I myself can enjoy sitting in station and fit/re-fit a ship for several hours.. it makes me calm and i enjoy myself doing it Please show me on the doll, where the bad pirate man touched you.
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.05.20 15:44:00 - [87] So I guess the real question is - Why don't the pirates who are looking for people to kill venture into 0.0? There are heaps of people out here.
Tom Sasaki	Posted - 2010.05.20 16:25:00 - [88] Originally by: Balsak Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Before accusing people of not wanting to take care of themselves put your blind advice to the test. If someone is in lo sec to make a better living there than hi sec then they're gonna want to make BETTER ISK FOR THEIR TIME. Let that sink in for a bit. Re-read what he said. He said "can't" protect themselves, not "want" to protect themselves. Big difference here. And how exactly can you continue earning isk while protecting youself from either a titan bridged hotdrop or a capital hotdrop while in your missionboat? Time sitting still != time earning isk
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.20 16:27:00 - [89] Edited by: Merouk Baas on 20/05/2010 16:29:54 Replying to this against my better judgment, and knowing that my reply will be buried in the thread and probably overlooked by everyone. But, basically, I think that CCP needs to make PVP a money-making activity. How? The insurance payout (40%) that currently goes to the person who lost the ship, change it to 100% payout and distribute it among the killers. That way PVP becomes much like grinding rats for ISKs, and basically becomes a money-making activity (depending on how good you are), and a PVP'er can then (in theory, and with skill) be fully self-sustained. If you're good, you can grind on the enemy's battleships or whatever, and rack up ISK by killing them over and over. And they can grind on you too, and if you lose, well, then get better so you don't lose. Basically, the winners get the cash worth of the ship, and the losers don't get anything. It may bring more people to lowsec. It may make people x up for fleets too, more than current attendance levels. And the ISK that enters the game via the insurance thing, still enters the game.
Lyn Kishin	Posted - 2010.05.20 16:37:00 - [90] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas So I guess the real question is - Why don't the pirates who are looking for people to kill venture into 0.0? There are heaps of people out here. They can't do that, someone out there might shoot back at them.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.20 16:40:00 - [91] Edited by: Balsak on 20/05/2010 16:41:04 Originally by: Tom Sasaki Originally by: Balsak Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Before accusing people of not wanting to take care of themselves put your blind advice to the test. If someone is in lo sec to make a better living there than hi sec then they're gonna want to make BETTER ISK FOR THEIR TIME. Let that sink in for a bit. Re-read what he said. He said "can't" protect themselves, not "want" to protect themselves. Big difference here. And how exactly can you continue earning isk while protecting youself from either a titan bridged hotdrop or a capital hotdrop while in your missionboat? Time sitting still != time earning isk What does that have to do with the difference between "can't" and "want" ? To answer your question though you make isk by increasing rewards and incentives to live in low sec. Give people reasons to want to group up to protect themselves and make enough isk to offset the losses that will occur. At the same time you give people the tools to police low sec and help better protect themselves in groups in low sec. However you cannot make low sec safe enough that a solo player can just blindly wander around doing whatever they want to do on their own like in high sec.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.20 16:48:00 - [92] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas So I guess the real question is - Why don't the pirates who are looking for people to kill venture into 0.0? There are heaps of people out here. That would be risky and most pirates are extremly risk adverse in my experience "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 16:51:00 - [93] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 20/05/2010 16:53:34 Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 20/05/2010 14:52:12 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 20/05/2010 12:34:20 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 If you truly believe you can control your safety AND make isk in lo sec GO TRY IT YOURSELF. Mmm, how do pirates do it then? Simple. Pirates dont run missions as their primary source of income. They do it to kill time or out of boredom while prey comes into range. They don't do it to make better isk from that of hi sec. Like you, they come here to profess running lvl 4s in their PVP-fit Deimos is "profitable" but they have no idea what it is they're talking about. Put simply, you have no idea what it is to run missions for profit. You may do 1 or 2 to kill time and then feel like you can speak of it like a mission pro, even claiming that doing missions on PVP fits and scanning every friggin 5 seconds is "easy" and will keep you safe and whatnot. But you really know nothing. It's like me telling you how to pirate. Now that's exactly the problem - most want to farm, farm and FARM their damned missions. If you don't insist on making mission whoring your only activity - yeah, hard to imagine this - you can actually have quite a good time. That's the way the game's ment to be played. At least when CCP gets the things fixed so that low-sec missions are at least twice as profitable as of high-sec. So basically stop whoring missions because they're boring to you and instead do what you think Eve is about. How's about if I told you to stop whoring killmails? Would that sit well with you? Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.05.20 18:01:00 - [94] Quote: So I guess the real question is - Why don't the pirates who are looking for people to kill venture into 0.0? There are heaps of people out here. If by 'heaps of people' you mean 'a macro raven in every system, who logs out whenever local is >1', sure...
Kayta Danaari	Posted - 2010.05.20 21:13:00 - [95] I've been in losec for a little while, lured by the promise of better rocks... but I've been quite disillusioned since. In hisec, I can mine by myself and keep 100% of my ore. In losec, I need other people with me, people guarding, scouts watching gates, etc... all of whom then take a share of my ore. So, yeah, I get hermorphite instead of plagioclase, but I only get to keep 25% of it. How is that cost-effective? How is that worth my time? It isn't. And as for all the "be smart and stay safe" crap, I fail to see how keeping my D-scanner open (and taking up most of my screen) and spamming the scan button every 15 seconds is supposed to be fun. Compounding that, there's no way to add scanner probes to overview, meaning no using an active overview filter, meaning every 15 seconds I have a huge list of crap to scroll through looking for scanner probes. And this is supposed to be fun? It's not fun at all. It's a serious pain in the a$$. I'll probably be going back to hisec pretty soon.
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.20 21:39:00 - [96] Originally by: Kayta Danaari I've been in losec for a little while, lured by the promise of better rocks... but I've been quite disillusioned since. In hisec, I can mine by myself and keep 100% of my ore. In losec, I need other people with me, people guarding, scouts watching gates, etc... all of whom then take a share of my ore. So, yeah, I get hermorphite instead of plagioclase, but I only get to keep 25% of it. How is that cost-effective? How is that worth my time? It isn't. And as for all the "be smart and stay safe" crap, I fail to see how keeping my D-scanner open (and taking up most of my screen) and spamming the scan button every 15 seconds is supposed to be fun. Compounding that, there's no way to add scanner probes to overview, meaning no using an active overview filter, meaning every 15 seconds I have a huge list of crap to scroll through looking for scanner probes. And this is supposed to be fun? It's not fun at all. It's a serious pain in the a$$. I'll probably be going back to hisec pretty soon. It's not meant to be fun for YOU, carebear. PvErs such as you, are just PvE for the PvPers! Noone gives a damn what your opinion is, your purpose is to die.
Kayta Danaari	Posted - 2010.05.20 21:43:00 - [97] Exactly my point!
Angeli Domini Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.20 22:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Demolishar It's not meant to be fun for YOU, carebear. PvErs such as you, are just PvE for the PvPers! Noone gives a damn what your opinion is, your purpose is to die. You sir, just won this week's internets.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.20 22:06:00 - [99] Originally by: Demolishar It's not meant to be fun for YOU, carebear. PvErs such as you, are just PvE for the PvPers! Noone gives a damn what your opinion is, your purpose is to die. That about sums up why low-sec is like it is.
XY55XTY Amarr The Fizzy Drink Corp	Posted - 2010.05.20 22:22:00 - [100] Originally by: Demolishar It's not meant to be fun for YOU, carebear. PvErs such as you, are just PvE for the PvPers! Noone gives a damn what your opinion is, your purpose is to die. There is proper PVP and there is the PVP where a gang wait to prey on the individual who jumps through a gate. Sorry but those who say they are protecting their home is utter tosh. If you want to protect your home and gate camp, get to 0.0! I give into the fact, that those in low sec who mission run and do plex's are fair game if hunted down but gatecamps and staion camping is just lame. The only possible solution to this would be to introduce a system at gates and at stations where a targeting penalty would be applied (much like the effects found in some wormholes) to all vessels within a certain radius of the gate or station. Gives a fair chance to the traveller and still a chance to the pirates.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.05.21 00:24:00 - [101] the simplest solution: But the really good stuff in 0.0 space, the highest price for them in high sec. Nobody has to live in that zombieland ghetto known as low sec. But they have to cross there. But the blobs! It's the blobs man! Yes. It's the blobs. That's why all you gotta do is have it so that when you jump into a system, you are placed in a random spot. Yes it's the people killing everything that moves in low sec who are killing it. When the zombies eat all of the living flesh, there are nothing left but zombies. And you really have to be a zombie or have a brain like one to hang around low sec all day waiting for someone to kill. But killing everything that moves, and having an expectation of there being a few predetermined spots were movement will be, makes the Jan Brady strategy of killing everything just because it's there possible. If they didn't know where everything was, it would not be so easy. End these gate to gate jumps and just do random deposit into the next system, and the blob is over. Let the emoragegankers have to earn their kills the hard way. The Sansha have the right idea.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.21 00:39:00 - [102] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer the simplest solution: But the really good stuff in 0.0 space, the highest price for them in high sec. Nobody has to live in that zombieland ghetto known as low sec. But they have to cross there. But the blobs! It's the blobs man! Yes. It's the blobs. That's why all you gotta do is have it so that when you jump into a system, you are placed in a random spot. Yes it's the people killing everything that moves in low sec who are killing it. When the zombies eat all of the living flesh, there are nothing left but zombies. And you really have to be a zombie or have a brain like one to hang around low sec all day waiting for someone to kill. But killing everything that moves, and having an expectation of there being a few predetermined spots were movement will be, makes the Jan Brady strategy of killing everything just because it's there possible. If they didn't know where everything was, it would not be so easy. End these gate to gate jumps and just do random deposit into the next system, and the blob is over. Let the emoragegankers have to earn their kills the hard way. The Sansha have the right idea. Terrible idea, you nerf high sec and even worse you nerf pvp as a whole. Are you trying to kill the game for everyone ?
Henri Rearden Gallente HITAM R-I-P	Posted - 2010.05.21 01:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Balsak Terrible idea, you nerf high sec and even worse you nerf pvp as a whole. Are you trying to kill the game for everyone ? Umm... why does this nerf high-sec? I understand why it would nerf lame-pvp, which was his whole idea, really. And it would only nerf out-going gatecamps, you'd still have the opportunity to pop noobs entering gates and entering/leaving stations...
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.21 01:43:00 - [104] Originally by: Henri Rearden Originally by: Balsak Terrible idea, you nerf high sec and even worse you nerf pvp as a whole. Are you trying to kill the game for everyone ? Umm... why does this nerf high-sec? I understand why it would nerf lame-pvp, which was his whole idea, really. And it would only nerf out-going gatecamps, you'd still have the opportunity to pop noobs entering gates and entering/leaving stations... Well since you never really defined what the "really good stuff" is I can only assume you mean loot drops since the really good plexs and ores are already in 0.0. You also suggest high sec having the highest prices. How do you propose this other than some arbitrary tax or some other artificial price increase ? That is how you are nerfing high sec. Now you go and say something like "nerf lame-pvp", please elaborate on what you mean by this because if you don't all we are left with is the belief that you just don't want to be shot at. Are you really able to lock and pop people other than total noobs going through out gates and docking ? All you are left with is station camp games which to use your term is "lame-pvp" at its worst. You are killing any way of legitimate pvp to happen just for the sake of making travel a hell of a lot safer. So I ask again are you trying to kill the game for everyone ?
Seishi Maru Organization for Nuclear Research	Posted - 2010.05.21 02:24:00 - [105] Edited by: Seishi Maru on 21/05/2010 02:25:18 Low sec is NOT even 1/10 as dangerous as most people like to make it sound. Its VERY dangerous if you expect to go SOLO in a battleship, or expect to mine in a hulk. For starters, FW made WONDERS on making low sec populated with much less gate camps. If you make a gate camp and stay there too long, some bored militia fleet will come and blow you up. So pirats make short gate camps .. or make serious gate camps on VERY important spots. But if you are smart.. and i know quite FEW eve players can be classified as smart.. so I indulge those.... you get to a region you want to live first in small fast ships. You will NOT die unless you go afk. Get to know the regions. ANNALYSE THE DAMM MAP!!!! and use your brain to figure where are the possible choke points were gate camps might happen. PAY ATTENTION on map intel. And START TO MAKE FRIENDS in region! No you do not need to make a huge corp. not even a CORP. You just need to socialize and very fast you will get at the intel channel that almost ANY populated low sec region has. BEign a nice perosn you wil make friends with even SOME Pirates. Because pirates are not a single MASSIVE GROUP that works against everyone else. MOst pirates have other pirate groups as enemies. And most pirates call a tiny place in low sec their home. Quite some SMART pirates wil even prefer to befriend people of a specific system and not cause trouble with them, so they can share their intel channel. LOOK at them damm map and USE your brain. And figure that there are systems with NO reason for anyone to travel there but to be a local resident.. or to hunt people. So on those system if you know the locals .. you WILL recognize imediatelly the dangers. And when you use your brains you figure there are systems you shoudl NOT even try to live there. And be sure they will be FAR less common than you might believe. This char lived in low sec for 10 months in 2009. Got killed ZERO times. My main stil lives in low sec, but in Faction warfare. And after you get to know the region you live it becomes MUCH safer than most COWARDS believe it could be. I feel safer in low sec in a mobile ship (not a Battleship) than in high sec while flying a faction battleship with faction modules Summarizing.. low sec is interesting for people with BRAINS. It coudl really be more interesting because the isk paying there is not much more than an UBERLY pimped mission runner can do in high sec. But hat is the only things tha need change. MORE rewards...... because the risk is already low enough.
Henri Rearden Gallente HITAM R-I-P	Posted - 2010.05.21 02:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Seishi Maru Edited by: Seishi Maru on 21/05/2010 02:25:18 Low sec is NOT even 1/10 as dangerous as most people like to make it sound. Its VERY dangerous if you expect to go SOLO in a battleship, or expect to mine in a hulk. For starters, FW made WONDERS on making low sec populated with much less gate camps. If you make a gate camp and stay there too long, some bored militia fleet will come and blow you up. So pirats make short gate camps .. or make serious gate camps on VERY important spots. But if you are smart.. and i know quite FEW eve players can be classified as smart.. so I indulge those.... you get to a region you want to live first in small fast ships. You will NOT die unless you go afk. Get to know the regions. ANNALYSE THE DAMM MAP!!!! and use your brain to figure where are the possible choke points were gate camps might happen. PAY ATTENTION on map intel. And START TO MAKE FRIENDS in region! No you do not need to make a huge corp. not even a CORP. You just need to socialize and very fast you will get at the intel channel that almost ANY populated low sec region has. BEign a nice perosn you wil make friends with even SOME Pirates. Because pirates are not a single MASSIVE GROUP that works against everyone else. MOst pirates have other pirate groups as enemies. And most pirates call a tiny place in low sec their home. Quite some SMART pirates wil even prefer to befriend people of a specific system and not cause trouble with them, so they can share their intel channel. LOOK at them damm map and USE your brain. And figure that there are systems with NO reason for anyone to travel there but to be a local resident.. or to hunt people. So on those system if you know the locals .. you WILL recognize imediatelly the dangers. And when you use your brains you figure there are systems you shoudl NOT even try to live there. And be sure they will be FAR less common than you might believe. This char lived in low sec for 10 months in 2009. Got killed ZERO times. My main stil lives in low sec, but in Faction warfare. And after you get to know the region you live it becomes MUCH safer than most COWARDS believe it could be. I feel safer in low sec in a mobile ship (not a Battleship) than in high sec while flying a faction battleship with faction modules Summarizing.. low sec is interesting for people with BRAINS. It coudl really be more interesting because the isk paying there is not much more than an UBERLY pimped mission runner can do in high sec. But hat is the only things tha need change. MORE rewards...... because the risk is already low enough. I agree, I never suggested lowering the risk. I am with you, increase the rewards and it will be more enticing.
Wolfgang Jager Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2010.05.21 03:21:00 - [107] Originally by: Seishi Maru Edited by: Seishi Maru on 21/05/2010 02:25:18 A whole lot of basically irrelevant advice As others have said, the problem isn't that no one can live in Low sec; it is that there is simply no reason to. High sec actually pays out better because you can use more specialized ships, solo and not spend time avoiding threats - time=ISK. Or, if you prefer a different prize...null sec payouts are at least worth the risks (although arguably actually still lower than pure high sec ISK farming) It has nothing to do with courage or the lack thereof, low sec just isn't worth it. The last bit of your closing line is right though, the risks in low sec are fine...but the rewards really need to be looked at.
Jerid Verges Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand	Posted - 2010.05.21 04:04:00 - [108] Here's a proposal. Fix the bounty system, create a bounty hunter profession that requires Sec. standings with Concord and gives rewards based on Pirates killed. This will send people to lowsec and has the potential to create parts of lowsec that are safe enough for industrialists to use.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2010.05.21 04:39:00 - [109] The fix to low sec is also the fix to a lot of other things in Eve. Fix space, space and travel mechanics need improvement. IMO, and entire reworking. Eve is too easy, too simplistic in its travel mechanics. A comprehensive redo of session changes, warping, cynos/bridge, grids and scanning would do wonders for Eve, and low sec.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.05.21 04:46:00 - [110] Originally by: Adunh Slavy The fix to low sec is also the fix to a lot of other things in Eve. Fix space, space and travel mechanics need improvement. IMO, and entire reworking. Eve is too easy, too simplistic in its travel mechanics. A comprehensive redo of session changes, warping, cynos/bridge, grids and scanning would do wonders for Eve, and low sec. Any specific suggestions ? From the couple of threads here on the main page and some of my own thoughts off the top of my head im in favor of things like: More Isk per mission More Loyalty Points per mission Some better ores or more ore mined per laser cycle Better bounty hunting system - Requires it's own discussion to fix Expand low sec system to encircle the factions - no high sec travel between faction space (need some stick to go with the carrots afterall More entrances from low sec into null sec Expanded FW - controlling systems gives faction region boosts / rewards for FW members Strategic systems w/ outposts taken through the FW system and not seige Control of system w/ outpost gives access to agent with lurcative missions (reg agent and FW agent) PvP missions for players not wanting to join FW I'm there are a lot of good ideas out there
Seishi Maru Organization for Nuclear Research	Posted - 2010.05.21 10:53:00 - [111] CCP must figure that what they did with elvel 5 missions was OPPOSITE of what shoudl ahve been done. And what they have done with FW and pirate epic arcs is the correct path. Missions are NOT gonna be run in large groups by default.. never EVER! And battleships are TOO slow and easy to kill tobe used in unregulated space. Level 5 shoudl be remade into missions that can be done in SMALLER ship. Smaller than level 4 ones!!! Therefore making more likely for you to avoid being easily ganked. Make level 5 missions to be exaclty as level 3 missions, buthwith sleeper AI and exclusive to low sec. YEs they WILL pay more than L4 ones for LESS effort. And THAT is what is required to make low sechave a strong economy appeal.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.23 12:36:00 - [112] Originally by: Demolishar It's not meant to be fun for YOU, carebear. PvErs such as you, are just PvE for the PvPers! Noone gives a damn what your opinion is, your purpose is to die. Is anyone still wondering why lo sec is desolate? Here's a clue. If "noone [SIC]" gives a damn" on what the carebear's opinion is THEN STOP CRYING ABOUT HOW THERE'S NO CAREBEARS IN LO SEC. Your idiotic mentallity is EXACTLY the reason why there are no carebears in lo sec. You made your bed. Now lay in it, quietly. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Smabs	Posted - 2010.05.23 14:45:00 - [113] Quote: Is anyone still wondering why lo sec is desolate? I am. The parts of lowsec close to trade hubs aren't really that desolate at all.
Aurum Bellator	Posted - 2010.05.23 15:14:00 - [114] The only way to really convert lowsec into a populated area is if people actually "live" there. To live somewhere in Eve, there needs to be industry and production. To have industry and production, there needs to be an incentive for industrialists to cater to a particular market. Now, how do you get industrialists to move their production hubs from Jita to Jan? Well, that's easy. You manipulate the profit margins by implementing: (a) a sales tax for all purchases, which tax would be consumerate with the security status of a system; and (b) manipulate the fees associated with refining and producing so that it is much lower to produce and refine in lowsec. If you want to encourage mining or mineral production in lowsec, simply make isogen and better minerals available only in lowsec to nulsec. Yes, this means eliminating or manipulating the NPC loot drops as well. You would still have your "safe" mining activities in highsec, only there would be courier missions to get the minerals or ore into lowsec. If you make it significantly more profitable to engage in industry in lowsec, someone will do it, if only to effectively compete against those in highsec. It won't eliminate the highsec industry, and isn't intended to. But it will create a thriving lowsec population. NOTE: the tax rate and fees levied must give a SIGNIFICANT advantage to production in lowsec! Otherwise, you are back to the whole risk vs. reward issue. My recommendation is a 25% sales tax and 25% tax on refining in highsec; 5% in lowsec. But I'm sure CCP can figure out what the right balance should be. AUB
Riggs Droput Mad Bombers	Posted - 2010.05.23 19:30:00 - [115] You are never safe in space in EVE, you never should be. When I first started playing this game a buddie of mine gave me some advice that I live by. Never fly what you cannot afford to lose. If you cant afford to lose your hulk then mine in empire where your chances of a lose are at a minimum. If you can afford to replace it take a chance and go mine in low sec. I am not going to argue with anyone that low sec is more dangerous and less profitable then null sec mainly because all path's to null sec are pipes that go through low sec. More trafic = more targets = more fun for people like me who like to kill. Tips for low sec that I have come across are Make safe spots off of belts and moons where you are still in scan range. Make safe spots during long warps so you are off grid on belts/moons/planets. Dont go into low sec unprepared. Scout! Know your exit gates and make bookmarks off of them at various distances. off grid. 50k off the gate. 100k off the gate. Watch local! Everytime a new player comes through local check their sec status and their age. This right there will give you a basic outline if they are going to come gank you. A 3month old character most likely will either be a scout or someone who is there for a mission or ratting. A 6year old Char with a - sec status is there to gank you. Use your map! There are many options there to find out the stats. Pod kills, Players in system, trafic. If you study the map and look at the stats you can find low sec systems that are quieter then others, also pick low sec systems that have multiple gates out in different directions. If your too inept to do multiple things at a time maybe you should go back to Hello Kitty Adventure Island, this game is not easy when played in low sec/null sec. You always need to be aware of your surroundings. I dont feel bad killing inept players. It was their fault they are there and being fodder for my guns. The greatest part about this game is that it doesnt dictate how you have to play. I can keep my coffers at a resonable level by ganking you mission runners in your factionfit ship and looting what survives. Riggs I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees
Aurum Bellator	Posted - 2010.05.24 15:47:00 - [116] If lowsec were worth living in rather than traveling through, pirates would get a run for their money. It wouldn't just be pimped out mission runners and travelers, people would have an incentive to actively battle the pirates lurking in lowsec . . . It would be worth living in if it gave significant advantages over highsec, significant enough to outweigh the risk. AND, the advantages SHOULD outweigh the risk because the goal should ultimately be to "progress" from high sec to low sec to nulsec. AUB
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.05.24 16:25:00 - [117] Originally by: Merouk Baas Edited by: Merouk Baas on 20/05/2010 16:29:54 Replying to this against my better judgment, and knowing that my reply will be buried in the thread and probably overlooked by everyone. But, basically, I think that CCP needs to make PVP a money-making activity. How? The insurance payout (40%) that currently goes to the person who lost the ship, change it to 100% payout and distribute it among the killers. That way PVP becomes much like grinding rats for ISKs, and basically becomes a money-making activity (depending on how good you are), and a PVP'er can then (in theory, and with skill) be fully self-sustained. If you're good, you can grind on the enemy's battleships or whatever, and rack up ISK by killing them over and over. And they can grind on you too, and if you lose, well, then get better so you don't lose. 1: Abusable with alts. 2: So if you get ganked, you don't even get insurance. Okay, another reason to avoid PVP at all costs. 3: People stop taking out insurance for meant-for-PVP ships, to avoid giving the enemy free money. Originally by: Riggs Droput If your too inept to do multiple things at a time maybe you should go back to Hello Kitty Adventure Island, this game is not easy when played in low sec/null sec. You always need to be aware of your surroundings. I dont feel bad killing inept players. It was their fault they are there and being fodder for my guns. People can sure do all that....but why do they want to do it? What are the rewards? You talk about mining in lowsec. Try that for a bit, and let us know how much profit you make in your big fat target of a ship, that can't stay aligned, either can't be insured well or can't tank belt rats. By your advice, the only way to survive is to dock whenever someone shady enters local. The game doesn't force people to play a certain way, but it sure encourages it. Originally by: Riggs Droput I can keep my coffers at a resonable level by ganking you mission runners in your factionfit ship and looting what survives. "Man, I've been killing every carebear I meet in lowsec, and they don't like to come here? Plainly, the solution is to nerf HS level 4's!"
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 16:37:00 - [118] Originally by: Kiri Serrensun "Man, I've been killing every carebear I meet in lowsec, and they don't like to come here? Plainly, the solution is to nerf HS level 4's!" Not surprising they're not interested in going to low-sec if you keep killing them and the ones you kill are more than likely soft targets with little chance of defending themselves. Keep nerfing high-sec won't get people into low-sec but it will get people to leave the game and some of those carebears as you call them have 9+ accounts. Very bright suggestion from you.
Jekyl Eraser	Posted - 2010.05.24 16:41:00 - [119] I just got an idea... Allow CONCORD at losec but only near stations and gates. Would allow safe travel and pirating against mission runners, ratters, plexers and PI and POS owners. I'd like to see the losec missions be more like FW missions tho... fast with public beacon. Station and gatecamping is boring anyway :)
Chopper Rollins Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:13:00 - [120] Edited by: Chopper Rollins on 24/05/2010 17:13:54 Originally by: Seishi Maru gold.[/quote Funniest people i've met in eve have been -8 or less. Also the most helpful and well informed. That doesn't mean every red is a nice person, The Baptist isn't fooling anybody, i've seen him in Heild killing rookie ship after rookie ship in his Dramiel. Hey that's where the cheap skillbooks are, a lot of people's first belting in lo sec is from that. All the stuff Seishi Maru said is true, carebears and killmail carebears alike need to just switch on the brains. Me, i'm addicted to rats. Started on 0.5, then could never go back to empire after finding 0.4 systems to prey on, now i'm at 0.1 and darting into 0.0 for the million plus bounties. It's a serious problem, as i can't cut back or even stay awake in hisec. The real pew-heads are cool, it's the pretend ruthless killers who are waste and fail.
TheBaptist Vori V Zakoni	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:38:00 - [121] Originally by: Chopper Rollins Edited by: Chopper Rollins on 24/05/2010 17:13:54 Funniest people i've met in eve have been -8 or less. Also the most helpful and well informed. That doesn't mean every red is a nice person, The Baptist isn't fooling anybody, i've seen him in Heild killing rookie ship after rookie ship in his Dramiel. Hey that's where the cheap skillbooks are, a lot of people's first belting in lo sec is from that. You mad? Perhaps if you didn't post with an alt I could check my killboard and see what you lost? Were you that frig that undocked with Gallente Carrier book in it and died and got podded maybe? Perhaps you were that deadspace fit thrasher? Also please try to engage a non-flashy on station in a frigate (i.e. a Dramiel)...I would like to see how long you live after that.
Milla Sirius The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:45:00 - [122] And I kill rookies with my paper manticore at any stations, I can escape from sentries fire. Milla "10 minutes" Sirius
TheBaptist Vori V Zakoni	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:47:00 - [123] Confirming Milla, I have KMs as proof =)
iminjitalol	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:47:00 - [124] However, take this lightly as Milla has a reputation for being fast
Djakku Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:13:00 - [125] YARR!!! This is an outrage!!! yarr, you'll never be rid o' me an mi' hearties yarr... This is not a signature.
Jalif	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:33:00 - [126] LowSec doesn't suck. You are just being lazy or you don't look further when you should do so. But I blame the pirates and the "carebears". Pirates are just ganking and spanking everything they encounter (its not wrong) - maybe if they started ransoming a bit more often they would get more out of their targets and targets more out of them. Beside that, I remember that some old pirate corporations used to get paid for protection or leave the people alone? I offered that to another corporation ones for 50mil a week. They refused and I eventually was killing them 100mil in damage each week and they still keep refusing. Why does nobody think of this? How about you carebears? You want to make a diffrence? Talk to the pirates. If you give a good offer they will defiantly help you (depends on pirate tho) - Slowly build up your contacts and trust. Don't jump directly a couple Orca's on top while you mine. Start a smart business. - Lowsec isn't lacking. Its more the players who are lacking and who don't think about teamwork. - You just want more game mechanics to make it easier for yourself. Wake up, it will never will be and the ones with the most contacts are always the most successful. - Eve is more then just pressing buttons. Talking (not smacking) is also a part of it. - You just want to see Good vs Evil - Ones again, wake up, you are able to change that. If you are a corporation who wants protection/left alone in lowsec then talk to the pirates because they control/dominate/know the area and often know how to pvp against other people. Better then all those carebear anti-pirates. Think about it, You can make a diffrence, if you do, you will grow and earn reputation and what else. If you don't, you will stay the average player. Notting more then that. PVP-Videos: Jalification
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:41:00 - [127] Originally by: Jalif Beside that, I remember that some old pirate corporations used to get paid for protection or leave the people alone? I offered that to another corporation ones for 50mil a week. They refused and I eventually was killing them 100mil in damage each week and they still keep refusing. Why does nobody think of this? I would not pay you either, I say good on them. If they had isk to throw away they should have hired mercs to come and smash your toys up.
TheBaptist Vori V Zakoni	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:45:00 - [128] Jalif, hai o/ I'm glad you are violencing boats once again for great justice. Also, I support what you are saying, except for the ransoms part.
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:53:00 - [129] Edited by: Kiri Serrensun on 24/05/2010 18:53:21 Originally by: Jo Ka Not surprising they're not interested in going to low-sec if you keep killing them and the ones you kill are more than likely soft targets with little chance of defending themselves. Keep nerfing high-sec won't get people into low-sec but it will get people to leave the game and some of those carebears as you call them have 9+ accounts. Very bright suggestion from you. Yes, that is exactly what I was personally advocating. Was it the quotation marks that tipped you off about how deathly serious I was, or the juxtaposition of two pirate arguments that most of them never seem to join up?
Jalif	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:54:00 - [130] Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: Jalif Beside that, I remember that some old pirate corporations used to get paid for protection or leave the people alone? I offered that to another corporation ones for 50mil a week. They refused and I eventually was killing them 100mil in damage each week and they still keep refusing. Why does nobody think of this? I would not pay you either, I say good on them. If they had isk to throw away they should have hired mercs to come and smash your toys up. Thats your problem. They did that often enough and failed (epicly). And also, its cheaper to pay a pirate corp to leave you alone then hire a merc corporation. Are there any mercs around still? Maybe, NOIR. but thats way to expensive for to many corporations. I've already kicked ones 2 allainces out with my 5man corp at the time. Just pure frigs and harrasing and keeping people docked. If they had payed me 50mil a week I would have protected them or left them alone and they could do their business. Ones again, you are just the "average" player - you will never get far. The one who thinks about his business opertunities and leaves the Good vs Evil aside will grow 100x faster then you ever do. PVP-Videos: Jalification
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:00:00 - [131] Edited by: Jo Ka on 24/05/2010 19:05:26 Originally by: Jalif Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: Jalif Beside that, I remember that some old pirate corporations used to get paid for protection or leave the people alone? I offered that to another corporation ones for 50mil a week. They refused and I eventually was killing them 100mil in damage each week and they still keep refusing. Why does nobody think of this? I would not pay you either, I say good on them. If they had isk to throw away they should have hired mercs to come and smash your toys up. Thats your problem. They did that often enough and failed (epicly). And also, its cheaper to pay a pirate corp to leave you alone then hire a merc corporation. Are there any mercs around still? Maybe, NOIR. but thats way to expensive for to many corporations. I've already kicked ones 2 allainces out with my 5man corp at the time. Just pure frigs and harrasing and keeping people docked. If they had payed me 50mil a week I would have protected them or left them alone and they could do their business. Ones again, you are just the "average" player - you will never get far. The one who thinks about his business opertunities and leaves the Good vs Evil aside will grow 100x faster then you ever do. Average player or griefer, I guess I can tolerate being called an average player at least I'm not being called a griefer. Yep, I could never be a pirate but a merc that's a different story.
Aurum Bellator	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:09:00 - [132] Edited by: Aurum Bellator on 24/05/2010 19:10:10 Originally by: Jekyl Eraser I just got an idea... Allow CONCORD at losec but only near stations and gates. Those who knew me in my previous life way back in 2003 - 2005 would roll in my grave if they heard me say: I support this idea, if implemented properly. It was also part of my four point thread to improve lowsec in the Ideas forum. It should not, however, be designed to eliminate gate and station camping --- but only limit it. For example, if CONCORD responded at gates and stations in increasingly powerful wave . . . frigates first, after 5 minutes then cruisers show up, after 5 more minutes, fleets begin warping in . . . etc. And allow them to be killable which ofc reduces such player's sec status as well. Combined with a few other tweaks to make lowsec more profitable (versus highsec) such as tax and fee rates and mission rewards, I believe that many people would in fact go to lowsec. AUB
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:14:00 - [133] Originally by: Aurum Bellator Edited by: Aurum Bellator on 24/05/2010 19:10:10 Originally by: Jekyl Eraser I just got an idea... Allow CONCORD at losec but only near stations and gates. Those who knew me in my previous life way back in 2003 - 2005 would roll in my grave if they heard me say: I support this idea, if implemented properly. It was also part of my four point thread to improve lowsec in the Ideas forum. It should not, however, be designed to eliminate gate and station camping --- but only limit it. For example, if CONCORD responded at gates and stations in increasingly powerful wave . . . frigates first, after 5 minutes then cruisers show up, after 5 more minutes, fleets begin warping in . . . etc. And allow them to be killable which ofc reduces such player's sec status as well. Combined with a few other tweaks to make lowsec more profitable (versus highsec) such as tax and fee rates and mission rewards, I believe that many people would in fact go to lowsec. AUB Doubt it sounds more like you just want something to do whilst you are gate camping.
Jalif	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:15:00 - [134] Originally by: Jo Ka Edited by: Jo Ka on 24/05/2010 19:05:26 Originally by: Jalif Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: Jalif Beside that, I remember that some old pirate corporations used to get paid for protection or leave the people alone? I offered that to another corporation ones for 50mil a week. They refused and I eventually was killing them 100mil in damage each week and they still keep refusing. Why does nobody think of this? I would not pay you either, I say good on them. If they had isk to throw away they should have hired mercs to come and smash your toys up. Thats your problem. They did that often enough and failed (epicly). And also, its cheaper to pay a pirate corp to leave you alone then hire a merc corporation. Are there any mercs around still? Maybe, NOIR. but thats way to expensive for to many corporations. I've already kicked ones 2 allainces out with my 5man corp at the time. Just pure frigs and harrasing and keeping people docked. If they had payed me 50mil a week I would have protected them or left them alone and they could do their business. Ones again, you are just the "average" player - you will never get far. The one who thinks about his business opertunities and leaves the Good vs Evil aside will grow 100x faster then you ever do. Average player or griefer, I guess I can tolerate being called an average player at least I'm not being called a griefer. Yep, I could never be a pirate but a merc that's a different story. OH, im such a sad griefer right? I think you are playing the wrong game. In eve you either loose or win and I got a feeling im winning more often then you are :) PVP-Videos: Jalification
AvatarADV	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:34:00 - [135] Sure, you can deal with low-sec in a well-organized corporation. Or... you can take the same well-organized corp out to 0.0, sign on with one of the alliances, and grab some actual space. Requires more of a logistics effort, but on the other hand, defense is a lot easier, what with less traffic (to the point where you can assume that "not allied" = "hostile"). If you have the skills and the chops to set up in low-sec, you can make it in 0.0, and make several times as much isk. Easier to defend too - no sec status hit for popping intruders. The thing is, there's nothing in low-sec that you can't also get in 0.0. You're taking on all of the risk, for significantly less reward.
LiquidsteeI	Posted - 2010.05.24 23:53:00 - [136] Here is a suggestion. CCP make an invulnerability field that is just that totaly invulnerable for say a time limit . Buy it on the market, If u wanna run a lvl 4 mission in low or null sec it costs 100 mill or {insert price here] for say 30 minits or whatever. If you want to mine for 5 hours raise the cost to say a billion,Make it so one can make a profit but every noob in a boat cant afford it, I think most of you are smart enuff to catch my meaning.
Olleybear I R' Carebear	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:35:00 - [137] Originally by: TheBaptist Originally by: Chopper Rollins ... The Baptist isn't fooling anybody, i've seen him in Heild killing rookie ship after rookie ship in his Dramiel... You mad? Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I've almost killed TheBaptist Dramiel before while he was flying drunk. We both had a laugh at that. Oh, and o/ Baptist <<< Just because your pet likes you, that does not mean you are a good person. >>>
Haruki sensou	Posted - 2010.05.25 01:01:00 - [138] Yes, low-sec is horrible and offers no rewards vs. risk, please stay out of it cause making 15-20b every few weeks essentially passively if you have enough brain cells to align and scan is just not enough.
Prieith Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.25 01:14:00 - [139] In 06 i used to mine in lowsec for several months as a n00b, and everyone left me alone except a few flashies, anyway by the sound of it, if i did it now, i would get hotdropped wtfpwnd in like 5 minutes after undocking. And i don't think any changes has been made in lowsec since then has it?, so it is probably the people who needs to change then right? I dunno, just poasting
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.05.25 13:20:00 - [140] Originally by: Jalif I've already kicked ones 2 allainces out with my 5man corp at the time. Just pure frigs and harrasing and keeping people docked. If they had payed me 50mil a week I would have protected them or left them alone and they could do their business. Or they could have paid you and got blown up anyway. Maybe you're one of the few pirates motivated by something other than killmail addiction, but it's simply not worth the risk. And that protection money is coming out of profit, further eroding the supposed massive profits of lowsec.
trusted Tradera	Posted - 2010.05.25 13:32:00 - [141] Originally by: Resonanza Edited by: Resonanza on 19/05/2010 08:31:09 Originally by: Kosak Blood Heck, remove asteroid belts from hisec. H Ppl will simpl ystop playing AND paying Eve. You cannot force people to play teh game like you want it to be played. You can't people force to become YOUR victims. "adapt or die"!. This but in English
HalogenWraith Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.25 14:14:00 - [142] What really annoys me about lowsec is the gate guns. Gate guns don't save people from getting ganked, and in my opinion only serve to provide a false sense of security to new players. The only thing gate guns in lowsec manage to accomplish is to relegate pvp to battlecruisers and above, forcing any frigate-specialized pilots to go to belts or 0.0. Lowsec belts aren't exactly target-rich. Why does CCP feel the need to discriminate against frigate pilots with infinite tracking gate guns? We may never know. Either give them limited tracking or remove them entirely, because what did you intend loswec to be in the first place?
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 14:38:00 - [143] Well you won't see me in low-sec unless I'm traveling through it to 0.0. After all low-sec is where all the low-lifes go and I have standards.
Jeneroux Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.25 15:27:00 - [144] If you need to go to lowsec.. why no one ever mentions the best way to be safe? Do not wait for attack, threat, or ransom demand. Proactive bribery work well.
Rocktown	Posted - 2010.05.25 15:53:00 - [145] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Ah one of my favorite topics. Lowsec sucks for the same reason the tropics of the Atlantic and Pacific would have sucked IF the real seagoing pirates were out there killing everything that moved. They didn't, of course. They went after the truly valuable targets, the complacent, and the corrupt. But they didn't attack every fishing boat, every ferry, every single native fisherman, or bombard every coastal or port town. They engaged those who had something worthwhile to take, and the navies that pursued them. EvE Lowsec is everything that moves getting attacked. Lowsec back in 2006 was good. I used to mission there in a rookie ship and T1 cruisers and never got bothered. It was the big fish they were after. Now, even in high sec, I am careful with my all-T2 Flying Piniata. The bad signs were just coming in in low sec back around those days. There were systems where people were just starting to kill everything that moved, and made entire websites making fun of everybody they killed. This is not playing a game. This is blaming the world for that time your crazy uncle or mothers boyfriend diddled you. But as before, CCP means "Crowd Control Productions" and as the world goes to hell and Schadenfreude fueled by impotent rage of the victims (most people who are angry but too cowardly to do anything real about it), becomes a national sport, every faction ship getting lolgankged is one less new car getting keyed or tired getting slashed. Every noob tricked out into lowsec after being befriended and ganked is one less person getting their face bloodied in the back of the playground. One corp being scammed bloodless is one less estranged boy or girl finding their stuff in the driveway. Every gallon of tears poured out is one less neighborhood cat tortured to death. Good job CCP. i liek tu blowz up spaceships in gaem i iz sociopaths nao?
Stroh Blatz Gallente Dirty Martini Clinical Operations	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:18:00 - [146] Because that may mean actually getting into a fair fight or having to fight a fairly skilled player. Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas So I guess the real question is - Why don't the pirates who are looking for people to kill venture into 0.0? There are heaps of people out here.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:29:00 - [147] Edited by: BrundleMeth on 25/05/2010 16:32:27 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Demolishar It's not meant to be fun for YOU, carebear. PvErs such as you, are just PvE for the PvPers! Noone gives a damn what your opinion is, your purpose is to die. Is anyone still wondering why lo sec is desolate? Here's a clue. If "noone [SIC]" gives a damn" on what the carebear's opinion is THEN STOP CRYING ABOUT HOW THERE'S NO CAREBEARS IN LO SEC. Your idiotic mentallity is EXACTLY the reason why there are no carebears in lo sec. You made your bed. Now lay in it, quietly. You are 100% correct. I live mostly in 0.0 and occasionally high-sec. I will live where I please not where it's convienient for other players. Anyone in this game who believes their opinion is the only opinion that counts will always have something to whine about. I find low sec to be nothing more than a pain in tha arse and those crapping about no one to shoot could start shooting at each other... But in any case I doubt this entire discussion will amount to anything. No one will take any advice and CCP will likely do nothing to low-sec...
Gavin Neltharek Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:33:00 - [148] Originally by: TheBaptist Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank You call us pirates, but this is our home, lowsec is where we choose to live, so we are merely protecting our systems. You go into nullsec and get ganked and don't complain, why should it be much more different in lowsec? ;) If it really was your home assets you were protecting you'd do more than sit on gates with blobs ganking anything and everything that came through the system. Pirates are after easy kills to pad the board and nothing more. They prey on weak easy targets and scatter to the wind when a fight actually shows up. Use the system to your advantage. Build up a blue list of renters that you can actively defend and provide protection racket services to in a certain set of low sec systems. Kill any neuts and reds and respond to defense calls in those systems. You may find yourself actually enjoying seeing blues in your system that you can actually defend if attacked. Try the same thing with lvl 4-5 mission hubs in your low sec systems. Some carebear corps may be willing to foot a small bill to have some big bad -10 corps protecting them in low sec. All you'd need then is CCP to make low-sec not suck terribly from an ore perspective. <----------------------------------> Carebears aren't people, they're giant flying piniatas.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:35:00 - [149] Originally by: Gavin Neltharek Some carebear corps may be willing to foot a small bill to have some big bad -10 corps protecting them in low sec. This, exactly. I'd pay for protection of a small corp...
Yarpen Tsunami Cartel Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:35:00 - [150] Low sec doesn't suck people - low sec is just different that's all I agree when it gets to one thing - low sec needs some love from CCP. When I talk of love I do not mean better ores, I do not mean better mission rewards, or any means of more ISK, I certainly do not mean forcing carebears to go to low sec. Low sec is (prolly the last) place where small scale pvp still exists. Do not think that every pilot that lives there just waits at the gate for some 2 week old hauler to kill. Might actually sound funny to 0.0 people but we do actually fight over territory in low sec and the scale at which we engage is just fine. Now PLEASE do not try to populate our low sec with fluffy carebears mining and mission running, do not try adding concord etc casue that would just turn low sec into high sec - would be easier to just change the sec rating of the system. Now someone mentioned ideas like added exploration or reworked bounty system so pirates can be pursued/tracked - yes, that's the kind of attention low sec needs. At this point high sec is all about safe (hehe) isk grinding for carebears, 0.0 is for sov fight/better grinding and blob warfare (enjoy it guys) - my question is WTF is low sec supposed to be CCP? Please add some stuff so it has more flavour, so it actually feels like lawless secotrs of space with its own opportunities Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Adida
Gavin Neltharek Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:43:00 - [151] Low sec has several rewards that can outshine high sec rewards, but the flat truth is that the risk vs reward is far too high. You meet no pirates that are actively looking to be helpful. All they want is cheap smack and quick kills. The only Pirate Alliance I can say has any value whatsoever to talk to would be Veto, and even that is a pretty small factor. Flat facts are pirates make low sec un-bearable. Why waste time establishing any permanent presence when you can simply go to 0.0 and rent at a better value to your wallet. If pirate corps merged into small alliances, they could actively hold pockets of low sec and use either their larger fleets, or simply form more small roaming fleets to enforce their policies along pockets. Why shouldn't a pirate corp lay claim to 5 systems and then rent that space out to small industrial corps. Blue standings at a few hundred mil a month? There's no sov warfare to deal with either. Just gang warfare. When I flew under a -10 banner I always wondered why... with 20 man gangs roaming around we never bothered just holding a few systems to ourselves. <----------------------------------> Carebears aren't people, they're giant flying piniatas.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:44:00 - [152] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/05/2010 16:49:19 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/05/2010 16:48:27 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/05/2010 16:45:54 Originally by: Stroh Blatz Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas So I guess the real question is - Why don't the pirates who are looking for people to kill venture into 0.0? There are heaps of people out here. From my limited (read: I went there for a week and decided it's not worth the hassle) NPC 0.0 experience, all I found were either gangs (which resulted in a kill or two, though, fun if the gang is small enough) and people who when local jumps by one go and immediately cloak. Basically: I found less PVP, and I started running out of ammo and resupply is a hassle, comparatively. I might go again when/if I find a WH to some convenient place. Low-sec is more pleasurable to live in though. I would certainly say that lowsec is largely fine and its population levels are just fine. Also, I find the "lack of targets" comments puzzling, I mean sure if all you aim for are mission runners and miners then targets are few and far in between, but there is a solid number of people who are out there to PVP and you can kill them too, it's not such a novel idea (unless they run/dock/wait for blob to gather/undock, of course, or are playing falcon extravaganza in space). Actually that sort of thing (basically people who don't want to engage any combat ship unless they have 5x the numbers) is the worst part of lowsec. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Elldranga	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:21:00 - [153] Originally by: Marquis Zenas Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails ... low sex sucks ... This thread well end well... I foresee it coming off the deep end...
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:45:00 - [154] Originally by: HalogenWraith What really annoys me about lowsec is the gate guns. Gate guns don't save people from getting ganked, and in my opinion only serve to provide a false sense of security to new players. The only thing gate guns in lowsec manage to accomplish is to relegate pvp to battlecruisers and above, forcing any frigate-specialized pilots to go to belts or 0.0. Lowsec belts aren't exactly target-rich. Why does CCP feel the need to discriminate against frigate pilots with infinite tracking gate guns? What they accomplish is keeping insta-lock interceptors off the gates. That's more than enough.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:04:00 - [155] low sec is a fun place moreso now than before wormholes becaue a lot of high sec and 00 wormholes end up in low sec, bored grab a prober find a link take a small bc gang thro and have some fun Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Grasse	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:09:00 - [156] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here well of course low sex sucks lol cos and also that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank i think if we are going to fix low sc that means that we need to fix the problem of pirates too but i have tried but there are so many of the damed pirates that my trusty defencemobile isnt always up to the job but i am always interested in other ideas so that we can make the game more fun for everyone and not just pirates x Can you please learn to make some sense some time,, this is utter jibberish..
Kaal Redrum	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:55:00 - [157] Edited by: Kaal Redrum on 26/05/2010 13:59:13 Edited by: Kaal Redrum on 26/05/2010 13:58:04 You have no idea, what an entertaining read this thread has been - especially on a day like today, when i needed a distraction while Tyrannis is deployed :) Ty all. Honestly, i hope our new CMS team take the good suggestions from this thread, add more, and make something happen - say what you want, but EVE low-sec is fairly boring. This is from a perspective of a new EVE player, one who loves missioning in high-sec L4s as much as i love (the idea of) Piracy in low-sec. Not tried null-sec yet, so cant comment. I do have a very simple, straight forward suggestion that will attack a CORE problem. Pirates shoot and kill indiscriminately in low-sec, no questions about this truth. This fact, makes the risk/reward of low-sec so poor, that 0.5 ratting/missions/mining will ALWAYS be prefered. Pirates, by definition will prey upon ships they KNOW they can 'take' - as it should be. The reason EVE's sandbox mechanics have allowed Piracy bloom, but gimped low-sec population, all boils down to this fact: Dead men and boats DONT give gold - your 15th century Pirates of real Earth, didnt shoot and burn every ship they came by, simply because it was ALWAYS more lucrative to 'ransom' and loot the cargo. Currently, a destroyed ship leaves majority of its delish equipped modules on its wreck, while majority of the cargo is destroyed. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE. A ship destroyed should destroy MAJORITY of all modules equipped AND in cargohold. This alone will severely reduce the incentive to kill things for pirates. As it stands, im still living of a single Thrasher kill - sure flying junk-Rifters is cheap, but thats not the point. The sheer amount of loot i got off that kill is what, according to me, the problem is. Every pilot knows what their ship is worth and really, CCP need to work on a ransom mechanic. Currently i have no incentive to ransom - the target will try and kill me till his last breath. Ransoming only occurs when someone snares the rare pod. Maybe the game needs a mechanic change, where by all high-slots and drones slots stop functioning at 10% structure, all mid at 5% and all lows at 2%. OR something. There is still the problem of 'whats stopping you from killing me, once ive paid the ransom' (a real world problem too, so not sure if this is bad. Your reputation will soon spread, and people will stop eventually paying ransom). And the problem of the target using the 'ransom negotiation' time to call for help (this obviously didnt exist, within reason, in real world). Security status hits for destroying ships, podding and the inconsequential bounty system are obviously NOT deterrant enough for me to kill everything i can. its too lucrative to destroy ships. Change that - Piracy will start mirroring real world 15th century piracy - will increase the appeal of low-sec, everyone is happy. Obviously along with other changes, such as increasing low-sec mission, mining, ratting rewards. Or applying a reprocessing/sales tax in high sec etc.
CannibalCorpseZor Caldari HISTORY INC Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:11:00 - [158] I like big butts...but anyway, lowsec is fine. you can find a fight if you want one, be a pirate if you want to be, or kill a pirate if you want to. I lurve it. And best of all the stations are unconquerable and my stuff never gets locked away. Oh, and I can go buy stuffs in Jita. I think the real problem in the game is 00. It is too easy to kill people due to bubbles. Zoiks! Aye, bubbles make 00 stupid. Ur bubbled and ur dooooomed. no chance of escape. At least in a lowsec camp there is a chance of escape and hunters and prey alike have to at least try, versus, bubble up, bubble up. Dur, and you can always get ur groove on with wardecs on top of lowsec fights to spice things up. point being, lowsec is not broken, it is just that some places are spicier than others. just as with 00. But at least in lowsec I will never have to deal with a bubble or a prick alliance leader who wants me to defend his freaking moon or someone's stupid supercap array.
Lucia Warbler Infinite Frontiers	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:11:00 - [159] Originally by: Kaal Redrum (suggestions to improve things) Well, I think they usually won't ransom someone because that said target is very close to escaping them thru stargate or something. What Eve really needs is possibility to damage ship subsystems, like, weapons or engines to bring a ship to complete hold. Then, for example, in-build ransom system would come to play opening and interaction between top damage dealer and the victim. Pirate enters ransom amount and if victim pays, the disabled ship is miraculously transported to nearest station. Not very realistic, but then again what in Eve is? Additional opportunities should include salvaging a disabled ship while it is still intact for extra module drops if victim refuses to pay. And for the record, I'm not a pirate.
CannibalCorpseZor Caldari HISTORY INC Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:22:00 - [160] that's why pirates use webs or ships with web bonuses.
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:27:00 - [161] Why oh why didn't I take the Blue Pill.
Garamond	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:27:00 - [162] I think they should let alliances start claiming sov in lowsec space. Then they would be tasked with its defense with the added benefit of a little extra security.
Roshin Lokel	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:39:00 - [163] I dont mind low sec nor getting killed once in a while in a good fight. The only thing I CANT stand is for a blob of ships to fly through a system killing everything. This isn't farm land and you are NOT locust. I had a person catch me in low sec once, he targeted me and scrammed. I figured ok.....ill fight you.....WRONG. 8 others in his corp showed up and bam I was dead before I even got off a shot. This is NOT a fight it is pretty much a bunch of cowards banding together to take on a single target. Grow a pair and fight 1 on 1 unless your too afraid to. Running up a score on the killboards may seem fun, but I ask you what is the logic behind it? I mean seriously does anyone really care who or what you killed and how many times? In a war yes, I suppose it would be nice to know who killed who and what dmg was done but just to kill to move up the ranks on the board is both stupid and not needed. So if anyone sees me in low sec, have the f***ing guts to fight me by yourself, don't call 6-8 ships out to help you kill me in one shot. That is NOT eve.......if you want to play like that go join a raid in WOW.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:42:00 - [164] Low sec is merely the highway between 0.0 and High-sec that the developers just do not care about.
Aurum Bellator	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:50:00 - [165] Originally by: Lucia Warbler . . . What Eve really needs is possibility to damage ship subsystems, like, weapons or engines to bring a ship to complete hold. Then, for example, in-build ransom system would come to play opening and interaction between top damage dealer and the victim. Pirate enters ransom amount and if victim pays, the disabled ship is miraculously transported to nearest station. Not very realistic, but then again what in Eve is? Additional opportunities should include salvaging a disabled ship while it is still intact for extra module drops if victim refuses to pay. I think you're onto something here, however it is incredibly unlikely to get a 'teleport' anywhere. However, there's no reason why a ransom "interface" couldn't result in an automatic warp-away upon deducting the ransom amount from the wallet. I.e., despite warp scramblers or whatever, if you pay the ransom your ship aligns and warps as if you'd dropped connection. Then, you would be free to warp to a station and dock. More likely to get something like that implemented than a teleport to a station IMO. I like the idea of disabling subsystems, engine, etc. or being able to give up equipped modules or whatever as part of a ransom. AUB
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:38:00 - [166] Originally by: Kaal Redrum Maybe the game needs a mechanic change, where by all high-slots and drones slots stop functioning at 10% structure, all mid at 5% and all lows at 2%. OR something. Why not have a "permanent kill counter" mechanic??? Right now, pirates can "work off" their kills to maintain sufficient security level to stay in whatever system they like. This should be a temporary situation, such that a pattern of indiscriminate killing, over time, will lead to permanently low security, forcing pirates into lower and lower sec systems, until eventually, they are stuck in 0.0. Currently there is virtually no risk for pirates. This solution would force pirates to chose their targets carefully, knowing that enough kills will eventually force them into a lower security system. Plus, to continue to be a successful pirate, they will be facing nastier and nastier opponents in the lower sec systems they are forced into. Alternatively, a player's "permanent kill count" could spawn NPC bounty hunters randomly over time. The frequency and potency of the NPC bounty hunters are in direct proportion to the their kill count, and could use the existing security rating methodology. This would make their pirating work "more interesting" to impossible, unless they voluntarily move to a lower security system, and in 0.0, piracy would be completely unhindered. I have no doubt that many will say something like would change the "fabric of EvE". But in a game supposedly based on risk versus reward, isn't it time that pirates actually realized some risk ?
Lucia Warbler Infinite Frontiers	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:41:00 - [167] Originally by: Aurum Bellator I think you're onto something here, however it is incredibly unlikely to get a 'teleport' anywhere. However, there's no reason why a ransom "interface" couldn't result in an automatic warp-away upon deducting the ransom amount from the wallet. I.e., despite warp scramblers or whatever, if you pay the ransom your ship aligns and warps as if you'd dropped connection. Then, you would be free to warp to a station and dock Yesh. Emergency warp out sounds better than teleporting to a station, but it needs to restore a tiny bit of propulsion subsystem for victim to limb back to a station.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:47:00 - [168] It sucks because of all the frenzied idiots obsessed with killmails. They aren't looking to make isk, or 'protect their systems' they just want any killmail they can get. Shuttles, noobships, they'll jump on anything like a fat kid on a dunkaroo. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Aurum Bellator	Posted - 2010.05.26 21:30:00 - [169] I wonder if more people will go to lowsec because of Tyrannis?
Leucippus Apostasy Inc.	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:23:00 - [170] Lowsec is just fine as it is, thank you. Quote: I think they should let alliances start claiming sov in lowsec space. Then they would be tasked with its defense with the added benefit of a little extra security. Benefit to whom exactly? Carebears are welcome to overpopulate all sorts of systems from 0.5 to 1.0. They can mine and play and frolic to their hearts' content. When they venture into lowsec, the rules change. And they should learn to shoot straight and pack good gear. Few of them bother. But that's as it should be. This is not a broken mechanic; it's a harsh reality and it appeals tremendously to meaner but more enterprising segment of the player base. Please, for the love of god, keep player alliances out of lowsec and at least some nullsec. Fascinating as their antics are, they are just one part of the community. Let's not shaft the free privateers by preventing them from shafting you!
TheSlaveMaster	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:41:00 - [171] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here well of course low sex sucks lol cos and also that is just where pirate hang out camping gates waiting for innocent travelers they can mercilessly gank i think if we are going to fix low sc that means that we need to fix the problem of pirates too but i have tried but there are so many of the damed pirates that my trusty defencemobile isnt always up to the job but i am always interested in other ideas so that we can make the game more fun for everyone and not just pirates x im happy you didn't win csm 5
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:50:00 - [172] rumour mongering amust high sec players keeps a vast majority from even trying it. In the last few years ive earn a savage amount of isk from low sec missions, and enjoyed defending the space from pirates and greedy "all for me" type corps and alliences. I like the fact theres little to no lag in low sec, misison rewards are far higher, no ninja looters (and any that try you can fully blow up before or after they touch your stuff) any 5-10 man corp that is capable of doing lvl 4s solo in tech 1 BS will make double their money in low sec and perhaps maybe enjoy the introduction to the pvp side that low sec has (but can be mostly avoided with scouts if they REALLY dont want to pvp) theres risk vs reward, but also reward vs rumour which seems ot be having more of an impact. my 2 isks.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:52:00 - [173] Originally by: Professor Tarantula It sucks because of all the frenzied idiots obsessed with killmails. They aren't looking to make isk, or 'protect their systems' they just want any killmail they can get. Shuttles, noobships, they'll jump on anything like a fat kid on a dunkaroo. QFT. Only thing that can fix lo sec is the people that live there themselves. There is a large enough population (still small in comparison to the rest) that are simply just interested in pising people off and, in other words, they're just interested in "collecting tears". That's where their fun is to be had. They stay away from 0.0 because their own chances of survival are reduced. They lurk into hi sec looking for easy and cheap ganks (usually suicides, ninja salvaging, etc.). But mostly where they can easily collect tears is in lo sec. They bich and whine that targets aren't coming to play with them. But truth be told they aren't interested in "playing" with their targets. They want to gank them to provoke "tears" and get some cheap laughs from it. And there is absolutely nothing that can "fix" lo sec to still accommodate this playstyle (if it can even be called that) while still enticing people into lo sec. Well, the only thing is if CCP FORCED targets into their guns. But that would cause more problems and just to satisfy these psychopaths it really just isn't worth it. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
TheBaptist Vori V Zakoni	Posted - 2010.05.27 14:36:00 - [174] Lowsec after the patch was much much fun, all those covops swooping in to buy the new skillsbooks, only to undock to their doom. Ooh delicious. It was PvP eve style (person vs people)

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