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Greme
   |
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:41:00 -
[451]
I have lost a couple of Battleships due to lag before this event, and have recieved no money or ship reimbursal for it (which I understand as CCP said they could not tell if I did actually lag/crash). But by doing this, they have just turned on their heels and rewarded people who decided to go out and fight in OBVIOUS lag, which any sane person will know will mean a high likelyhood of you getting your ship blown up. The lag did not magically appear for the first time during their battles or whatever, it was there before, and they decided to go out in it. Now they profit by 90million in some cases because not only do they get their battleships back (which is againt a CCP set point of generally not giving back ships), but they get to keep their insurance. Yay for punishing the smart/carefull and helping out no end the whiners and downright senseless people in this game.
Good game CCP, good game. You've just ass****** alot of pilots out here.
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Greme
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:41:00 -
[452]
I have lost a couple of Battleships due to lag before this event, and have recieved no money or ship reimbursal for it (which I understand as CCP said they could not tell if I did actually lag/crash). But by doing this, they have just turned on their heels and rewarded people who decided to go out and fight in OBVIOUS lag, which any sane person will know will mean a high likelyhood of you getting your ship blown up. The lag did not magically appear for the first time during their battles or whatever, it was there before, and they decided to go out in it. Now they profit by 90million in some cases because not only do they get their battleships back (which is againt a CCP set point of generally not giving back ships), but they get to keep their insurance. Yay for punishing the smart/carefull and helping out no end the whiners and downright senseless people in this game.
Good game CCP, good game. You've just ass****** alot of pilots out here.
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von Steinroehder
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:43:00 -
[453]
Hey DB Preacher,
first of all - I respect your views and would really like
not to talk about RL issues (such as our jobs etc.) in the
future, that's just way off topic.
I know what you mean, essentially the reimbursement measure
has led to increased inflation, as your ISK is worth less than
before now.
But on a grand scale I don't think that this (one shot, not
to be repeated again in the near future) measure really has
that large an impact as many people proclaim here. CCP has done
a quite simple assessment of the situation, basically deciding
that a reimbursement is the better alternative.
This is arguable. This surely changes the economy. But not
drastically.
If you want to look at it from an ingame economist's point of
view, there are many more details than just the inflation to
be included in the calculation, e.g.
- the market surge that happened when those pilots who lost their
ships bought a new one and insured it
- the modules, which also have a meta (non-ISK) value due to
their rarity (most agent runners I know rely heavily on a named fitting)
- the amount of ISK generated after the ship losses being less than
before them, because of the delay needed to get (kit, and insure) a new ship
- the general stability of the EVE currency, which is augmented by a player
driven oligopolic market
All in all there has been an influx of ISK to the economy without relating
values generated, but it's not catastrophic. Oveur said
 Quote:
...in addition to that, it's close to christmas, and we wanted to be nice to the customers that had a bad experience the first days of exodus and any "omg, you ruined the ship builders market" and "omg, now this guy has ships and cash". no, the ship market will be quite fine, at the rate that ships die in EVE, this is a drop in the ocean...
and I think it's not that difficult to agree.
That doesn't defeat your arguments, but it makes the situation look a
little less drastically defect-riddent than some posts here imply.
Yours,
von Steinroehder
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von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:43:00 -
[454]
Hey DB Preacher,
first of all - I respect your views and would really like
not to talk about RL issues (such as our jobs etc.) in the
future, that's just way off topic.
I know what you mean, essentially the reimbursement measure
has led to increased inflation, as your ISK is worth less than
before now.
But on a grand scale I don't think that this (one shot, not
to be repeated again in the near future) measure really has
that large an impact as many people proclaim here. CCP has done
a quite simple assessment of the situation, basically deciding
that a reimbursement is the better alternative.
This is arguable. This surely changes the economy. But not
drastically.
If you want to look at it from an ingame economist's point of
view, there are many more details than just the inflation to
be included in the calculation, e.g.
- the market surge that happened when those pilots who lost their
ships bought a new one and insured it
- the modules, which also have a meta (non-ISK) value due to
their rarity (most agent runners I know rely heavily on a named fitting)
- the amount of ISK generated after the ship losses being less than
before them, because of the delay needed to get (kit, and insure) a new ship
- the general stability of the EVE currency, which is augmented by a player
driven oligopolic market
All in all there has been an influx of ISK to the economy without relating
values generated, but it's not catastrophic. Oveur said
Quote:
...in addition to that, it's close to christmas, and we wanted to be nice to the customers that had a bad experience the first days of exodus and any "omg, you ruined the ship builders market" and "omg, now this guy has ships and cash". no, the ship market will be quite fine, at the rate that ships die in EVE, this is a drop in the ocean...
and I think it's not that difficult to agree.
That doesn't defeat your arguments, but it makes the situation look a
little less drastically defect-riddent than some posts here imply.
Yours,
von Steinroehder
|
Neslo
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:45:00 -
[455]
Edited by: Neslo on 10/12/2004 13:48:59
Well since there isn't a response and the server is technically still having issues? Why don't we all meet up in yulai and blow each other up and petition it on the laggy system / server and get back our ships? I mean they do it only if the petitions get to be enough to be unmanageable... I think if every alliance sent in people to yulai we could exasserbate the server issues still exsistant and continue the ship replacement policy now in effect due to the limite holiday good will of Oveur to ourselves over and over again.... since flooding the community with free money and ships is nothing to the devs if they feel overwhelmed by petitions from players....
Just a proposed Idea since we aren't getting a blog or response from anyone official....
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Neslo
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:45:00 -
[456]
Edited by: Neslo on 10/12/2004 13:48:59
Well since there isn't a response and the server is technically still having issues? Why don't we all meet up in yulai and blow each other up and petition it on the laggy system / server and get back our ships? I mean they do it only if the petitions get to be enough to be unmanageable... I think if every alliance sent in people to yulai we could exasserbate the server issues still exsistant and continue the ship replacement policy now in effect due to the limite holiday good will of Oveur to ourselves over and over again.... since flooding the community with free money and ships is nothing to the devs if they feel overwhelmed by petitions from players....
Just a proposed Idea since we aren't getting a blog or response from anyone official....
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
|
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:46:00 -
[457]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 10/12/2004 13:49:59
@ von Steinroehder
Of course, nothing is catastrophic....
If the Eve servers switched off tomorrow, it wouldn't matter an iota in the bigger scheme of things.
But within the confines of the gaming universe, I disagree that it is not a big thing.
So I guess we shall have to agree to disagree.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:46:00 -
[458]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 10/12/2004 13:49:59
@ von Steinroehder
Of course, nothing is catastrophic....
If the Eve servers switched off tomorrow, it wouldn't matter an iota in the bigger scheme of things.
But within the confines of the gaming universe, I disagree that it is not a big thing.
So I guess we shall have to agree to disagree.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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TriDane
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:47:00 -
[459]
I recieved four ships back (lost during agent missions) and would have no problem paying back the insurance gained. It was a nice suprise getting the ship, especially considering I didn't petition even when the concord log said destroyed by 'Unknown' rather then a user or a pirate name.
For the record 3*Incursus and 1*Tristan
With regards to the people complaining that the bad half gained from this and the good half didn't, well that's the sort of response one would expect from a narrow minded person.
Just because someone lost a ship it doesn't mean they were not careful, agent heavy players like myself lost things more valuable then isk and ships.
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TriDane
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:47:00 -
[460]
I recieved four ships back (lost during agent missions) and would have no problem paying back the insurance gained. It was a nice suprise getting the ship, especially considering I didn't petition even when the concord log said destroyed by 'Unknown' rather then a user or a pirate name.
For the record 3*Incursus and 1*Tristan
With regards to the people complaining that the bad half gained from this and the good half didn't, well that's the sort of response one would expect from a narrow minded person.
Just because someone lost a ship it doesn't mean they were not careful, agent heavy players like myself lost things more valuable then isk and ships.
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von Steinroehder
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:50:00 -
[461]
By the way, many level 4 agent runners lost their ships
even though they were prepaired (read: they brought friends)
due to the 'warp-in-bounce' bug, that pushed you right into
the middle of the enemy with all of them firing at you,
leaving you a sitting warpscrambled multiwebbed sentry peppered
friendless duck in a pit full of poultry haters with no chance
to get out (or in to get your can back).
So they neither wined nor were stupid nor did anything wrong,
and when they did it, there was no lag... so they lost ships
due to a bug, not to stupidity.
"Helping stupid players" is not the way to describe it.
And being evil about a christmas present isn't the fine english,
either.
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von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:50:00 -
[462]
By the way, many level 4 agent runners lost their ships
even though they were prepaired (read: they brought friends)
due to the 'warp-in-bounce' bug, that pushed you right into
the middle of the enemy with all of them firing at you,
leaving you a sitting warpscrambled multiwebbed sentry peppered
friendless duck in a pit full of poultry haters with no chance
to get out (or in to get your can back).
So they neither wined nor were stupid nor did anything wrong,
and when they did it, there was no lag... so they lost ships
due to a bug, not to stupidity.
"Helping stupid players" is not the way to describe it.
And being evil about a christmas present isn't the fine english,
either.
|
Neslo
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:51:00 -
[463]
Originally by: TriDane
I recieved four ships back (lost during agent missions) and would have no problem paying back the insurance gained. It was a nice suprise getting the ship, especially considering I didn't petition even when the concord log said destroyed by 'Unknown' rather then a user or a pirate name.
For the record 3*Incursus and 1*Tristan
With regards to the people complaining that the bad half gained from this and the good half didn't, well that's the sort of response one would expect from a narrow minded person.
Just because someone lost a ship it doesn't mean they were not careful, agent heavy players like myself lost things more valuable then isk and ships.
No one is saying that the better half of the Eve universe didn't lose anything, we are saying they took the risk and knew that they wouldn't get it replaced if they lost their ships. We are saying the "bad people" are the stupid ones who lost their ships and then petition despite the warnings by gms and are complaining that they got rewarded (sometimes doubly) for their stupidity, those of you who didn't complain cuz you knew the risks and still got "holidy gifts" yeah I'll grumble but it's not you that makes this situation such a bastard of one.... and I think you are smart enough to understand that...
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
|
Neslo
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:51:00 -
[464]
Originally by: TriDane
I recieved four ships back (lost during agent missions) and would have no problem paying back the insurance gained. It was a nice suprise getting the ship, especially considering I didn't petition even when the concord log said destroyed by 'Unknown' rather then a user or a pirate name.
For the record 3*Incursus and 1*Tristan
With regards to the people complaining that the bad half gained from this and the good half didn't, well that's the sort of response one would expect from a narrow minded person.
Just because someone lost a ship it doesn't mean they were not careful, agent heavy players like myself lost things more valuable then isk and ships.
No one is saying that the better half of the Eve universe didn't lose anything, we are saying they took the risk and knew that they wouldn't get it replaced if they lost their ships. We are saying the "bad people" are the stupid ones who lost their ships and then petition despite the warnings by gms and are complaining that they got rewarded (sometimes doubly) for their stupidity, those of you who didn't complain cuz you knew the risks and still got "holidy gifts" yeah I'll grumble but it's not you that makes this situation such a bastard of one.... and I think you are smart enough to understand that...
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
|
Neslo
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:53:00 -
[465]
Originally by: von Steinroehder
By the way, many level 4 agent runners lost their ships
even though they were prepaired (read: they brought friends)
due to the 'warp-in-bounce' bug, that pushed you right into
the middle of the enemy with all of them firing at you,
leaving you a sitting warpscrambled multiwebbed sentry peppered
friendless duck in a pit full of poultry haters with no chance
to get out (or in to get your can back).
So they neither wined nor were stupid nor did anything wrong,
and when they did it, there was no lag... so they lost ships
due to a bug, not to stupidity.
"Helping stupid players" is not the way to describe it.
And being evil about a christmas present isn't the fine english,
either.
This is a legitimate reason to petition and should have their ships replaced (but not their insurance) Blanket replacements is not the answer is what the rest of us are complaining about. If you are gonna give blanket reimbursements make sure the community as a WHOLE prospers not select few....
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
|
Neslo
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:53:00 -
[466]
Originally by: von Steinroehder
By the way, many level 4 agent runners lost their ships
even though they were prepaired (read: they brought friends)
due to the 'warp-in-bounce' bug, that pushed you right into
the middle of the enemy with all of them firing at you,
leaving you a sitting warpscrambled multiwebbed sentry peppered
friendless duck in a pit full of poultry haters with no chance
to get out (or in to get your can back).
So they neither wined nor were stupid nor did anything wrong,
and when they did it, there was no lag... so they lost ships
due to a bug, not to stupidity.
"Helping stupid players" is not the way to describe it.
And being evil about a christmas present isn't the fine english,
either.
This is a legitimate reason to petition and should have their ships replaced (but not their insurance) Blanket replacements is not the answer is what the rest of us are complaining about. If you are gonna give blanket reimbursements make sure the community as a WHOLE prospers not select few....
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:55:00 -
[467]
Originally by: von Steinroehder
So they neither wined nor were stupid nor did anything wrong,
and when they did it, there was no lag... so they lost ships
due to a bug, not to stupidity.
And this is reason enough for blanket full reimbursement of any loss?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:55:00 -
[468]
Originally by: von Steinroehder
So they neither wined nor were stupid nor did anything wrong,
and when they did it, there was no lag... so they lost ships
due to a bug, not to stupidity.
And this is reason enough for blanket full reimbursement of any loss?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:58:00 -
[469]
@ DB Preacher:
Right, I agree to our disagreement :)
I'm utterly sure someone at CCP fired an SQL statement
calculating the amount of ISK influx generated, getting
back a number and pivoting that versus the normal deviations
in EVE's daily ISK flow - in the bigger ingame scheme of things
(BINGASCHING).
They decided that the inflation wouldn't do more harm
than a day's irregular downtime and decided to go for it.
Keep on disagreeing if necessary, consider the above IMHOtagged 
Cheerio Ms. Sophie,
von Steinroehder
|
von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 13:58:00 -
[470]
@ DB Preacher:
Right, I agree to our disagreement :)
I'm utterly sure someone at CCP fired an SQL statement
calculating the amount of ISK influx generated, getting
back a number and pivoting that versus the normal deviations
in EVE's daily ISK flow - in the bigger ingame scheme of things
(BINGASCHING).
They decided that the inflation wouldn't do more harm
than a day's irregular downtime and decided to go for it.
Keep on disagreeing if necessary, consider the above IMHOtagged
Cheerio Ms. Sophie,
von Steinroehder
|
The Slavetrader
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:02:00 -
[471]
And all you CA thought Evol were Devs ...
Most retarded and unfair decision Ive ever heard of
Reads to me like "Im too lazy to use common sense on petitions so I'll not only replace their ships but my level of laziness is so high I wont even take back the 110 mil insurance payout they got"
Hurry up with next patch coz I will be self destructing about 10 insured battleships !!
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The Slavetrader
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:02:00 -
[472]
And all you CA thought Evol were Devs ...
Most retarded and unfair decision Ive ever heard of
Reads to me like "Im too lazy to use common sense on petitions so I'll not only replace their ships but my level of laziness is so high I wont even take back the 110 mil insurance payout they got"
Hurry up with next patch coz I will be self destructing about 10 insured battleships !!
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Greme
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:03:00 -
[473]
I am completely fine with ship reimbursal to save the time issues. It just annoys me that they deciced to let the players profit out of this, by leaving in the insurance.
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Greme
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:03:00 -
[474]
I am completely fine with ship reimbursal to save the time issues. It just annoys me that they deciced to let the players profit out of this, by leaving in the insurance.
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von Steinroehder
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Posted - 2004.12.10 14:03:00 -
[475]
Hey, don't look at me that way. I don't have the numbers.
Someone else did - and decided... very unpopular for some,
very popular for others. Who am I to complain? I got bounced
in a level 4 mission and didn't petition because I thought
it was by design, same as a corpmate did.
The only things I want to say are
1) the impact on economy is negligible and
2) don't call players who lost their ships shortly after the patch stupid.
Nomorenoless.
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von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:03:00 -
[476]
Hey, don't look at me that way. I don't have the numbers.
Someone else did - and decided... very unpopular for some,
very popular for others. Who am I to complain? I got bounced
in a level 4 mission and didn't petition because I thought
it was by design, same as a corpmate did.
The only things I want to say are
1) the impact on economy is negligible and
2) don't call players who lost their ships shortly after the patch stupid.
Nomorenoless.
|
von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:05:00 -
[477]
Erm, btw, my lost and reimbursed ship is not insured anymore.
It was before. Confirmation anyone?
|
von Steinroehder
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:05:00 -
[478]
Erm, btw, my lost and reimbursed ship is not insured anymore.
It was before. Confirmation anyone?
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fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:07:00 -
[479]
Edited by: fairimear on 10/12/2004 14:12:51
Originally by: von Steinroehder
Hey DB Preacher,
first of all - I respect your views and would really like
not to talk about RL issues (such as our jobs etc.) in the
future, that's just way off topic.
I know what you mean, essentially the reimbursement measure
has led to increased inflation, as your ISK is worth less than
before now.
But on a grand scale I don't think that this (one shot, not
to be repeated again in the near future) measure really has
that large an impact as many people proclaim here.
You either don't play much, don't know how much isk can be be made and the huge effects this has on alliances.
IF i had taken my Apoc out and pvp with normal mods and lost it to lag. A. i would have petitioned it and got it replaced fully. + now i would have gotten a second apoc + the original insure = 200mill.
And add to that 200 from a week of hunting i missed due to the fact I STAYED SAFE WITH MY BS FOR THE WEEK AFTER EXO LAUNCH = 400mill im out of pocket all because of exodus. when others are 200mill in pocket due to exodus.
thats a massive impact when you devide the comunity in two with half gaining and half lossing.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 14:07:00 -
[480]
Edited by: fairimear on 10/12/2004 14:12:51
Originally by: von Steinroehder
Hey DB Preacher,
first of all - I respect your views and would really like
not to talk about RL issues (such as our jobs etc.) in the
future, that's just way off topic.
I know what you mean, essentially the reimbursement measure
has led to increased inflation, as your ISK is worth less than
before now.
But on a grand scale I don't think that this (one shot, not
to be repeated again in the near future) measure really has
that large an impact as many people proclaim here.
You either don't play much, don't know how much isk can be be made and the huge effects this has on alliances.
IF i had taken my Apoc out and pvp with normal mods and lost it to lag. A. i would have petitioned it and got it replaced fully. + now i would have gotten a second apoc + the original insure = 200mill.
And add to that 200 from a week of hunting i missed due to the fact I STAYED SAFE WITH MY BS FOR THE WEEK AFTER EXO LAUNCH = 400mill im out of pocket all because of exodus. when others are 200mill in pocket due to exodus.
thats a massive impact when you devide the comunity in two with half gaining and half lossing.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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