Gatecamping is heavily in favor of those that live in the lower sec areas. Choke points kill high sec ppl adventuring into low/ null.
Everyone looses except the laziest players that sit and watch all day.

Pvp skills are about PvP, gate camp are gankers, no skills required just like carebears.

Fix it and low/null will be busy!

Many ideas
- damage dampening effect around sec changing gates?
- dampening lock time effect?
- alternate pay gates?
- npc jump services?
- jump into gate at > 100km?

Pvp is a skill that we learn to be good at and should be proud of our kills!
Gate campers are just gang gankers, sadly no skills required.

AND

Add high sec pirate gates into dead space? Give high sec some pvp easy to access areas?

Give us easier options to mix it up!!!

Yes, Eve is cruel.

PvP is not necessarily skill. PvP is blowing up other ships, no matter which way. Or are you talking about "eHonor"? Plz tell me that you don't. If so: No cookie for you.

Yea ppl like me can use a cloaky nullified easily. I'm talking about letting all have better access all sec space. Not just the 1 year plus players.

Get carebears access to null. Let them try it without having to signon to a null corp

Give me options!

Think newer player action

Why do people always QQ about gate camp? you have a f10 option you can use or a jump clone or you can make a sec char without skills and go trou that gate and see if there is a camp lol. There are so many options that will help you even i remeber correct there are some warning chats also. Use your brain people. Gate camp is the less problem in zero sec the scary shoot everything people thats the problems in low sec.

don't like gatecamps, wants to go to null.

i have some bad news for you...

Gatecamping is heavily in favor of those that live in the lower sec areas. Choke points kill high sec ppl adventuring into low/ null.
Everyone looses except the laziest players that sit and watch all day.

Pvp skills are about PvP, gate camp are gankers, no skills required just like carebears.

Fix it and low/null will be busy!

Many ideas
- damage dampening effect around sec changing gates?
- dampening lock time effect?
- alternate pay gates?
- npc jump services?
- jump into gate at > 100km?

Pvp is a skill that we learn to be good at and should be proud of our kills!
Gate campers are just gang gankers, sadly no skills required.

AND

Add high sec pirate gates into dead space? Give high sec some pvp easy to access areas?

Give us easier options to mix it up!!!

Yea ppl like me can use a cloaky nullified easily. I'm talking about letting all have better access all sec space. Not just the 1 year plus players.

Get carebears access to null. Let them try it without having to signon to a null corp

Give me options!

Think newer player action

don't like gatecamps, wants to go to null.

i have some bad news for you...

Spoken by an old character that missed the point. This is about getting interaction. As usual the oldies can't think of change.

Change, evolve, make eve better for new players to pvp

Read again, choke points from high to low or null

Protecting territory inside is different

*** I get it, null is for oldies

Sadly eve is funded by oldies and new blood is slow to come in. How long has it been since I've talked to a new player and not a new alt or character?

Fresh meat is fun haha

Killing someone in LOWSEC should require more skill and effort than waiting for a gate to flash and then mashing buttons before the poor sod loads the graphics required to react.

Killing someone in LOWSEC should require more skill and effort than waiting for a gate to flash and then mashing buttons before the poor sod loads the graphics required to react.

Yes!, Because jumping blindly into LOWSEC should be rewarded. Make 1 freind who can fly a shuttle to scout for you = problem solved.

I think these old geezers are more against allowing everyone and his dog to roam around the space they work to protect/control. If you want to explore the game the focus should be to make friends and work as a team to do that. Isn't that what the campers have done to get to that position in the first place?

Gate campers are just gang gankers, sadly no skills required.

Not to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure gate camping requires more skills than you will ever have. Therefore, sadly, you have less than "no skills" .

If you care to prove me wrong, please explain how exactly you would set up this "invincible/no skill" gate camp and I will gladly tell you how to counter it.

lowsec gate camping is on par with spawn camping in an FPS....

However EVE provides tools to avoid these camps, first and foremost is the F10 and going to the starmap and finding the system in question and checking ships destroyed and pod kills in the last hour. if its really active you know you should avoid it like Detroit.

Are you saying it is too much work to actually have to hunt down infiltrators and fight them in a fair fight?

Spawn camping in FPS is the equivalent of baiting new players in starter systems (freshly spawned/unprepared). Gate camping is the equivalent of simply camping (natural chokepoints). I just think this is a bit more accurate.

No. I'm saying every Tom, **** and Harry shouldn't be able to move in and out of losec/nullsec with impunity when people are working as a team to prevent that. Both sides should always have to work to obtain the upper hand. What you talk about gives the upper hand to the gate crasher, especially the gate crasher who already knows what he's doing. Tipping the scales in the way you suggest ignores the fact that there are already people who know how to avoid/break/destroy said camps.

Also why does it have to fair?

nah i dont miss the point you got ownd perhaps by gatecampers. The gate camps fits easy for noobs. people that are fresh in the game the getting a shower that eve is dangers and you need to be aware of this. Gate campers is like a wake up call. Dont change what is not broken.

I only meant "fair" in terms of not taking advantage of someone passing a transition and waiting for a screen load. Hunt them down in a 20-man fleet or hotdrop a few carriers on their BS. That is all good.

Note, AGAIN-- I have said like 5 times now my stance is in regards to HI-LOW transitions, NOT NULL. They are not the same. You do know the difference right?

Exploring the game should be rewarded, yes. Risk should also be there, but it should be gradual from High-Low-Null instead of death on transition.

I have been on both sides of gate camps and it requires no skill. NONE.

I can't believe people are defending gate camping in LOW. I understand NULL, but LOW? No wonder why new people have a hard time getting into this game. It's like a bunch of spoiled old geezers that don't want anyone else to enjoy the game.

No. I'm saying every Tom, **** and Harry shouldn't be able to move in and out of losec/nullsec with impunity when people are working as a team to prevent that. Both sides should always have to work to obtain the upper hand. What you talk about gives the upper hand to the gate crasher, especially the gate crasher who already knows what he's doing. Tipping the scales in the way you suggest ignores the fact that there are already people who know how to avoid/break/destroy said camps.

Also why does it have to fair?

edit- bolded the important part.

I only meant "fair" in terms of not taking advantage of someone passing a transition and waiting for a screen load. Hunt them down in a 20-man fleet or hotdrop a few carriers on their BS. That is all good.

Note, AGAIN-- I have said like 5 times now my stance is in regards to HI-LOW transitions, NOT NULL. They are not the same. You do know the difference right?

In a typical FPS there is equal ground on paper. The original analogy posted by Viktor is far more appropriate. In an FPS everyone dies, and thus everyone respawns. Spawn camping gives those who are on the defending side little chance of recovery. It is an unfair fight because mechanics are tilted in the favor of the camper. Much like Hi-Low transitions, but worse due to paper skill differences.

Oh it's easy to get through a gate camp if you only want to play the frigate or covertops game. Don't we want better ships coming through except by mistake?

I disagree, there is no such thing as gradual risk in EVE. You don't lose "part" of your ship, it's all or nothing. There are bright lines seperating high sec from unprotected space, either one must stay in protect space OR make the modifications/adaptations needed to venture somewhere else. Some how making some "gradual risk" mechanic is in fact dumbing down the game.

The game is open to exploration for anyone willing to make friends or learn how to fly.




I hate that whole "skill" fallacy. Very little in eve require "skill", lots of things require intelligence, patience and the ability to make friends.

I fail to see how making the game easier on noobs somehow increases "skill". If you want to increase noob skill, make them solve a math problem before being allowed to jump into low sec lol.



Hundreds of thousands of actual human beings have learned how to live, survive and thrive in EVE online, once again, if a person can't figure out some very simple things about the EVe life (and Gate Camps are part of that life), they should be playing something more forgiving, like Star Trek Online.

It's not that "old players" don't want anyone else to play the game, it's that veteran players have paid their dues to gain the rewards that come with old age (lol, my oldest eve Char is 5 year old).

If I can learn the game, they can too. Stop asking CCP to make things easier.

1st did the name **** really get edited out. Wow haha

It's not about balance. Eve is not about being fair.. It's real..

It's about getting more people to come into low and null. Improving the fun and more action in roams.

Ease the barriers to low or rather null, and those highseccers will come down. We all wi !

Not asking CCP to make things easier. I am asking them to put RISK on the side of the gate campers. Instead of camping a gate and mindlessly playing whack-a-mole, let them scan down their prey. Make them get off their security blanket of abusing the gate jump mechanics and actually engage someone who is ready for a fight. Whats the problem, you don't want to be shot back while camping? Stop trying to twist this into some kind of "I am awesomer conversation, get skills".

It is pathetic how gate campers want to sit in a low risk area and shoot fish in a barrel that cant shoot back as easily. Hiding behind the "dont make it easier" is laughable. I want it to be HARDER on the gate camper because they have little risk.

HARDER, not easier.

Not asking CCP to make things easier. I am asking them to put RISK on the side of the gate campers. Instead of camping a gate and mindlessly playing whack-a-mole, let them scan down their prey. Make them get off their security blanket of abusing the gate jump mechanics and actually engage someone who is ready for a fight. Whats the problem, you don't want to be shot back while camping? Stop trying to twist this into some kind of "I am awesomer conversation, get skills".

It is pathetic how gate campers want to sit in a low risk area and shoot fish in a barrel that cant shoot back as easily. Hiding behind the "dont make it easier" is laughable. I want it to be HARDER on the gate camper because they have little risk.

HARDER, not easier.

Not asking CCP to make things easier. I am asking them to put RISK on the side of the gate campers. Instead of camping a gate and mindlessly playing whack-a-mole, let them scan down their prey. Make them get off their security blanket of abusing the gate jump mechanics and actually engage someone who is ready for a fight. Whats the problem, you don't want to be shot back while camping? Stop trying to twist this into some kind of "I am awesomer conversation, get skills".

It is pathetic how gate campers want to sit in a low risk area and shoot fish in a barrel that cant shoot back as easily. Hiding behind the "dont make it easier" is laughable. I want it to be HARDER on the gate camper because they have little risk.

HARDER, not easier.

Gatecamping is heavily in favor of those that live in the lower sec areas. Choke points kill high sec ppl adventuring into low/ null.
Everyone looses except the laziest players that sit and watch all day.

CCP wants to mix it up, get carebears into low and null.. It's just good for the eve game overall. Yeah yeah I know oldies are hard to change. The iron age was great for me too.

Do you want new blood in the game?
Fix it and low/null will be busy!

Many ideas
- damage dampening effect around sec changing gates?
- dampening lock time effect?
- alternate pay gates?
- npc jump services?
- jump into gate at > 100km?

Pvp is a skill that we learn to be good at and should be proud of our kills!
Gate campers are just gang gankers, sadly no skills required.

CCP, Give us easier options to mix it up!!!

STALE Oldies need not reply.

And yes, everyone understands that gate camping hurts PvP more than it provides PvP.

If you make it "harder" for "campers" you make it easier for people to jump blindling into less safe space, thus making the overall game easier. That is non-sense and against the nature of the game. I make it harder for campers BY KILLING THEM.

I don't gate camp, I find it boring. In fact I prefer to hotdrop gate campers and just last week finished training an alt to fly a Panther with a Covert portal (my main flys a Redeemer for such drops, the covert portal is so we can bring along bombers and recons too). Hell, I've been Titan Bridged onto Gate camps more times than I've actually gate camped lol.

So no, you can't pin that "I'm just defending my gate camping play style" on me. What I am defending is the Spirit of EVE. Gate camps are a (crappy) part of life, you either learn to deal with it or you stay in high sec (and complain on the forums).

I don't get mad at people doing things I don't like, I get even, come back with friends and bust that camp. Asking for the GAME to change rather than adapting to the game itself is an example of the whiney entitlement carebearism I crusade against.

Gate Camping might be silly, complaining about it is worse lol.

How about you find some friends instead and go start shooting these people ?

Stupid.

This guy wants tanking in the form of "no guns, no tank, no cloak, no speed". It already exists: it's called not jumping unprepared. A properly prepared freighter will have an easier time jumping through lowsec than an unprepared drake. You can't deny that.

Do I think it is good for player retention to let gate campers sit on a gate and farm ships that have a disadvantage due to the nature of the zone transition? No.

Are you saying it is too much work to actually have to hunt down infiltrators and fight them in a fair fight?

No, he doesn't. Don't make **** up.

If you hunt them down yes it is a fair fight with exactly the same numbers as on a gate.

If they are camping a low sec gate as pirates they have the Gate Guns to deal with and you can jump a scout through and see what they under cloak have before engaging them.

You have a greater combat advantage on a gate then they do.

Lowsec gatecamps are like a college initiation, it is a test of skill, a trial by fire to separate the "worthy" from the 'unworthy".

Once I'm clear of the Gate, I am very rarely pursued, even though I'm in Local, with Hostiles, and not cloaked

Current gate gun dps is silly. If it were higher, it may mean something. As of right now it is way too easy to tank.

This I agree with. I always thought that their damage should scale with ship size. So little frigates can effectively speedtank them but a battleship would have less then a minute before it's tank was overwhelmed.

Frigate fights, best fights

No guns and untanked? What the heck are you talking about? Stop making **** up.

Instead of camping a gate and mindlessly playing whack-a-mole

Make them get off their security blanket of abusing the gate jump mechanics and actually engage someone who is ready for a fight.

Whats the problem, you don't want to be shot back while camping?

It is pathetic how gate campers want to sit in a low risk area and shoot fish in a barrel that cant shoot back as easily

Why am I not surprised that you argue from the vantage point of being able to hotdrop? A player under 1 year experience is not likely to have access to such tools, even with friends as most cyno-capable corps and alliances require 10 million sp for consideration. You are viewing the world through an isk-filled wallet and the convenience of already having years of skill points.

I first jumped into low at around 3 million sp on my main. I didn't learn to pass through with relative ease until 5 million sp and by using a scout. I couldn't do anything useful once over there until 8 million sp and even then, with great risk of isk loss.

Do I think hotdropping gate camps is hilarious? Yes. Do I think it is a fair fight? Yes. Do I think it is good for player retention to let gate campers sit on a gate and farm ships that have a disadvantage due to the nature of the zone transition? No.

I want players to have a chance to see other aspects of the game. Many are not as adventurous as those of us who have spent time in Low/Null.

The "EVE is hard herp derp" mantra is over used and childish. Well no shyte, it is hard? Wow, I haven't heard that 1,000 times. What has been tried, has thus far failed to get more players into lowsec. Change is needed.

Changes do not mean it gets easier. Make it harder on gate campers in HI-LOW transitions.

Only been into low-sec twice, once to 0.0 and did not see anyone enroute and once through a gate camp in a shuttle guess they were getting bored as they were so slow to react, only one even bothered to try and target me and he started that too late.

Heres an idea... Get in a ship and kill the people gate camping?


HUUURRRRRDUUURRRRRRWHOWUDATHOUGHTDURRRRRR

Shuttles make my whole point!
Who wants to pvp with shuttles and covertops?

Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.

If the spawn campers can't handle the slightest challenge then at least NCP null gates should have proximity ship count alerts before jumping. It's NPR space so go sown camp your own sov space.

I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd

I want players to have a chance to see other aspects of the game. Many are not as adventurous as those of us who have spent time in Low/Null.

The "EVE is hard herp derp" mantra is over used and childish. Well no shyte, it is hard? Wow, I haven't heard that 1,000 times. What has been tried, has thus far failed to get more players into lowsec. Change is needed.

Changes do not mean it gets easier. Make it harder on gate campers in HI-LOW transitions.

Shuttles make my whole point!
Who wants to pvp with shuttles and covertops?

Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.

If the spawn campers can't handle the slightest challenge then at least NCP null gates should have proximity ship count alerts before jumping. It's NPR space so go sown camp your own sov space.

I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd

While I can certainly see that making entry into losec would increase the population and so the targets there and I can see where you are coming from on that point, I've never had a problem getting into losec through a gate camp in a frigate or destroyer. Maybe I've never run into that legendary insta-locking gate camp. On the otherhand I don't bring anything bigger than a destroyer or a very fast aligning cruiser in, which leaves out losec mining or mission running for me. I fly solo so I'm not going to be taking on the gate camp. The camps I worry more about are the ones between losec and nullsec, nullsec entry points are usually camped and frequently bubbled. I have to say some of my most adrenaline filled times in game have been escaping those bubbled camps though. Once you are past the entry pont into null its hit or miss which gates are camped, just warp to a planet near the gate you are going to and you can scan the gate for any campers or bubbles, bubbles are the chief concern since you can warp to zero otherwise and insta jump through.

Look at growth stats, not returnies that will just leave again, look at new blood stats!

Evolve or in time LOTRO will be your only choice. Games fade when only the old have a voice.

Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.

I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd

You've already been told the answer, and you just dismissed it as 'not involving radical enough changes'. The answer is the star map. That's your fair warning. That's what gives you a chance. That's what allows even solo people under a year old to navigate nullsec. If you want to encourage people entering nullsec, then encourage them to use the star map.



Dude, you're the one not wanting to learn to use this game feature that should be about as important to you as your directional scanner.

This video is titled 'Finding fights with the map'. What you can find, you can also avoid. If you want some practice with it, try getting to Venal and then Stain without running into a gatecamp. If you do the pirate epic arcs (involving Curse and Venal), you'll get paid a good sum of isk to do this.

Map data is not accurate enough nor up to date enough for LOWSEC.

In LOWSEC gates can be camped non-stop 24/7.

I would tend to agree that the current mechanics does not really need to change. The cloak +MWD trick is effective enough.

However, I would find it extremely cool if concord (or the faction navy) would randomly patrol lowsec.

My idea in detail: Jumping trough a gate they (concord or navy) would wait 30 sec till they take any actions. If they find a player with lower sec status than -5 they will start shooting at him/her until the player warps off or are destroyed. If they find a player with a global criminal countdown in system they will (after 30 sec) try to warp scramble that player. If the player is waiting the GC tag to go away somewhere in the system they will give chase.

A gate camp could easily avoid the patrol, but a cunning player could use the patrol to fly through the camp. Even better, the player could gamble on that the patrol will jump after him/her and jump through the gate, get the campers to agress and then scramble as many as possible and tank the campers till the patrol jumps through and finishes of the camp, however the patrol might not jump through in time or even warp off to a different gate...

Sounds like good fun to me.

This idea I really like. I have always felt that people with crappy sec ratings should not be able to continue douchebaggary in the same spot for 12 hours straight (like gate camping).

I like how the high sec dweller falls into the usual selfish, self-centered stereotype. Eve is a sandbox, if you don't like players doing something... stop them. Why are you folks always incapable of helping yourselves? You always run to CCP, begging them to nerf something, instead of taking care of the problem on your own.

You don't want gates camped? Stop thinking only about yourself for once, stop thinking about Eve as a solo venture for once, make some friends and go blow the campers up. It really isn't hard: something fast to scout the camp, something tanked to hell to bait them, a black bird tailored for their ships and some dps. Boom, boom, boom, dead pirates. They're just as cowardly as you are; they'll be too busy trying to flee to fight back effectively.

Spoken by an old character that missed the point. This is about getting interaction. As usual the oldies can't think of change.

Change, evolve, make eve better for new players to pvp

OK, on that line of thought then I would simply ask for KILL RIGHTS on anyone who has gate camped in the past 24 hours. ANYONE. Also, I want KILL RIGHTS on anyone with security rating more than 4 points below my own (and negative). EVERYWHERE.

Fair? You see, not all of us want our security rating to go to ****. Some of us actually want certain characters of ours to be on the good guy side of the game...

Heres an idea... Get in a ship and kill the people gate camping?


HUUURRRRRDUUURRRRRRWHOWUDATHOUGHTDURRRRRR

Isn't that like telling an army recruit to fight a navy seal?

Kind of like saying "1+1 = 2, now that you know math, here's some advanced physics". There needs to be a "some what" gradual process to getting into PvP. Not "You can fly an Ibis, now venture off into null and go fight a titan"

You don't get security rating hits for blowing up people in 0.0 space. And the vast majority of lowsec campers you're whining about are already -5.0 or lower anyway, so you don't get a security rating hit for blowing them up either. Any other excuses for not taking care of these guys yourself?

I like how the high sec dweller falls into the usual selfish, self-centered stereotype. Eve is a sandbox, if you don't like players doing something... stop them. Why are you folks always incapable of helping yourselves? You always run to CCP, begging them to nerf something, instead of taking care of the problem on your own.

You don't want gates camped? Stop thinking only about yourself for once, stop thinking about Eve as a solo venture for once, make some friends and go blow the campers up. It really isn't hard: something fast to scout the camp, something tanked to hell to bait them, a black bird tailored for their ships and some dps. Boom, boom, boom, dead pirates. They're just as cowardly as you are; they'll be too busy trying to flee to fight back effectively.

Isn't that like telling an army recruit to fight a navy seal?

... they would have banded together as an anti-Goon crusade and would have conquered Deklien by now lol.

This is the pipiest of pipe dreams. We can hope one day they'll try it. But that would require organization and the high-sec dweller plays Eve-Online as though it were a single player game with pretty good AI ships flying around and whines to CCP when they don't get their way.

Frigates are not camping lowsec gates. You're beginning to get hysterical in your quest to prove you're somehow a victim. Everything you're complaining about is something you have the power to fix. You just need to stop being a victim and start shooting back, your security rating is irrelevant and easily corrected anyhow.

Can't see that ever happening, you've become too big, when you add TEST, FA and whoever else bands with you these days.

Dodging the question, like most of the older posters I see. Must be a gate camper. Wouldn't want to get shot first.

My security rating isn't for you to decide how important it is. I should start shooting back? Oh, after the gate camper shoots first?

How strange an advantage... even a player from a seasoned alliance in SOV can't see past their own little world.

Nope, it's like telling that army recruit to "go get your entire PLATOON to fight that navy Seal".

Devils Advocate:

What about from the perspective of a new player? You just joined the game, you don't know anyone, you're not in a useful corp, you want to go take a peek at Low-Sec to see if you're even interested into upgrading from your trial account, and POP. You jumped into low and your're dead.

The way I see it, Low-sec players are a bunch of bullies in their own playground, mostly separate of the high-sec playground. The pick on everyone who ventures into their territory while at the same time complaining that not everyone wants to come play.

Be bullies all you want, just stay out of our playground and we'll stay out of yours. If you want to come to our playground, then play by our rules. If you want to change our rules, then we should be free to change your rules, it's only fair.

Be bullies all you want, just stay out of our playground and we'll stay out of yours. If you want to come to our playground, then play by our rules. If you want to change our rules, then we should be free to change your rules, it's only fair.

The previous posts are proof enough that gate campers don't actually want a fight. They just want to gank without risk. Otherwise, they would have been all for the idea of allowing people with high security rating to shoot the gankers first.

Bullies don't like fair fights; it is only fun for them when they can look tough in a tilted fight and pat each other on the butt when they kill a noob on alpha.

Isn't that like telling an army recruit to fight a navy seal?

Kind of like saying "1+1 = 2, now that you know math, here's some advanced physics". There needs to be a "some what" gradual process to getting into PvP. Not "You can fly an Ibis, now venture off into null and go fight a titan"

What's wrong with the idea I proposed? You afraid of being killed in a fair fight? Don't want to lose your edge of getting to shoot first?

I love it how when someone wants to kill gate campers without the loss of SEC status is now whining. Wow man, wake up. I want a fair fight with none of the meta-mechanics stopping me. Pirates should be shot dead. I want to shoot them without losing sec status. Is that so scary to you?

If the High Sec crowd were like "us",Hulkageddon wouldn't be an issue because they would have banded together as an anti-Goon crusade and would have conquered Deklien by now lol.

If they shoot first, then the gate guns will be on your side. Meaning you will not lose sec status. Seriously, try to at least know game mechanics before whining for nerfs to certain game professions.

There have been plenty of explanations in this thread, that tell you exactly how to deal with camps. The only issue I see here, is that you simply cannot be arsed to use any of them.

The previous posts are proof enough that gate campers don't actually want a fight. They just want to gank without risk. Otherwise, they would have been all for the idea of allowing people with high security rating to shoot the gankers first.

Bullies don't like fair fights; it is only fun for them when they can look tough in a tilted fight and pat each other on the butt when they kill a noob on alpha.

I am aware of this. Try and read. I want to be the one to shoot first. They don't deserve the advantage of initiating the conflict in high or low security space. A known pirate (SEC status below 0) should be kill on sight for all pilots with positive SEC rating.

Most of Eve vs null sec? See youve missed the whole point.

AGAIN, getting ppl into null is the point. Make the entrance way work. The 'entrance', or door ... Get it... How you enter DF

No not really. Goonswarm continues to have incredible success sending newbies off to war on their first day in Eve Online. Remember that Shrike's Titan died because a three day old newbie listened to his blood lust and burned straight at the spot he saw a cloaking Titan. Newbies can be an incredible asset when veteran players aren't busy spitting on them.

No one is saying you need to take on these camps by yourself. That's the last thing you should be doing. Even newbies can bust up a gate camp with ease if they bring numbers and smarts to the battle. ECM and guts let your fleet punch well above its weight, you just need to stop thinking of Eve as a solo game.

Devils Advocate:

What about from the perspective of a new player? You just joined the game, you don't know anyone, you're not in a useful corp, you want to go take a peek at Low-Sec to see if you're even interested into upgrading from your trial account, and POP. You jumped into low and your're dead.

The way I see it, Low-sec players are a bunch of bullies in their own playground, mostly separate of the high-sec playground. The pick on everyone who ventures into their territory while at the same time complaining that not everyone wants to come play.

Be bullies all you want, just stay out of our playground and we'll stay out of yours. If you want to come to our playground, then play by our rules. If you want to change our rules, then we should be free to change your rules, it's only fair.

But anyway, that comment always makes me smile. How do people expect a large force to gather from smaller groups and individuals that don't know each other when one of the things you learn in EvE is not to trust anyone?

Heres an idea... Get in a ship and kill the people gate camping?


HUUURRRRRDUUURRRRRRWHOWUDATHOUGHTDURRRRRR

Doing so will make null lively again, in theory.

Making space undefendable would do the exact opposite, in practice. It's a stupid idea.

Newbies can either join a team or go it on their own.

Making space undefendable would do the exact opposite, in practice. It's a stupid idea.

Newbies can either join a team or go it on their own.

HUUURRRDURRR missed the context of the OP argument. New player(s) are not capable of killing a null gate camp. OP is trying to tell NULL players to pull off of the null entry gates as to not scare new blood out of nullsec at the get go.

Doing so will make null lively again, in theory.

Dumbass.

Devils Advocate:

What about from the perspective of a new player? You just joined the game, you don't know anyone, you're not in a useful corp, you want to go take a peek at Low-Sec to see if you're even interested into upgrading from your trial account, and POP. You jumped into low and your're dead.

As usual the oldies can't think of change.

Change, evolve, make eve better for new players to pvp

As irritating as gate campers in low seccan be, it's simply not something I care about changing. Like a bad shop, if all the customers leave it won't stay open, the same goes for a gate camped low-sec system. If your idea of pvp is popping unprepared ships, then kudos to you, you've found the most boring way to play Eve. While you're camping jump gates with little to no risk, come and complain on these forums about high-sec carebears who play the game with little to no risk. It'll make you the perfect hypocrit.

Not at the expense of the spirt of the game. EVE IS HARSH, if we wanted easy we'd play a themepark game.

Heres an idea... Get in a ship and kill the people gate camping?


HUUURRRRRDUUURRRRRRWHOWUDATHOUGHTDURRRRRR

Getting more people out of highsec is a good goal, but I don't think sneaking more security into lowsec is the answer. If you're going to make anything of yourself in more dangerous space, you should be prepared to have a plan. How to get there should probably be pretty high on the checklist for said plan.

Gatecamping is heavily in favor of those that live in the lower sec areas. Choke points kill high sec ppl adventuring into low/ null.
Everyone looses except the laziest players that sit and watch all day.

CCP wants to mix it up, get carebears into low and null.. It's just good for the eve game overall. Yeah yeah I know oldies are hard to change. The iron age was great for me too.

Do you want new blood in the game?
Fix it and low/null will be busy!

Many ideas
- damage dampening effect around sec changing gates?
- dampening lock time effect?
- alternate pay gates?
- npc jump services?
- jump into gate at > 100km?

OR

Gate alerts, fair warning on how many ships are on the other side

Pvp is a skill that we learn to be good at and should be proud of our kills!
Gate campers are just gang gankers, sadly no skills required.

CCP, Give us easier options to mix it up!!!

STALE Oldies need not reply.

What happened to Goon posts?
The last few days you guys keep pointing out how you cherish newbies, how you dislike renter alliances that treat their renters like cattle, make constructive suggestions and are generally helpful..
Where is the usual condescending "Y'all worthless pubbies"- rant?
Is this a new PR policy or have I just become so blunted over the time that I cannot find your posts offensive anymore?

Life in eve...
Industrialists, explorers, traders, pve'rs VS the rebels.. Pvp'rs

Just be happy CCP loves the goons accounts and CCP loves isks sinks

To address the topic, nah. 0.0 is supposed to be unforgiving, it's part of the game. The NPE could be improved to point newbies in the right direction (learning how to scout gates, encouraging players to only fly what they can afford to lose, joining a corporation, how to use map statistics, the basics on tackle and evading tackle)

Life is only black and white. Shades of gray cause me headaches and progress is always bad, because it means change *shudder*. Please get me back to the retirement home now. I'm scared by the youngsters over there.

Heres an idea... Get in a ship and kill the people gate camping?


HUUURRRRRDUUURRRRRRWHOWUDATHOUGHTDURRRRRR

What happened to Goon posts?
The last few days you guys keep pointing out how you cherish newbies, how you dislike renter alliances that treat their renters like cattle, make constructive suggestions and are generally helpful..
Where is the usual condescending "Y'all worthless pubbies"- rant?
Is this a new PR policy or have I just become so blunted over the time that I cannot find your posts offensive anymore?

Nothing has changed. A part of Goonswarm's culture is to cherish our newbies and has been since the day Remedial founded Goonfleet. All those pilots steam rolling the Soco with Tengu fleets and Super Caps, started the game by being handed a stack of skill books and rifters and being paired up with a mentor.

Same with the renter part. Rather than rent space we create strong alliances with other player organizations base on mutual respect and self-interest. Diplomacy is something we take very seriously at an alliance level. Turns out when you don't treat your friends and neighbors like dirt they'll be there for you when you need them. This is a concept that is so foreign to so many folks playing Eve-Online that they continue to call our allies pets.

Those of you who aren't blue or have spat on our olive branch? You can all go die in your own filth.

Edit: And not offering constructive suggestions when you have a decent answer is just petty.

Yeah the funny thing is the reason Goons arent falling apart is by all reports they DONT treat their renters like **** LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

funnily enough the Goons are the good guys in this case

What wonderful piles of bs being spewed in this thread.

People want easy kills on clueless noobs, what better place to get them.

Are you serious? You do know there are things called "corporations" and "alliances" and "coalitions" in this game right? Where people come together for common goals.

So you're saying that there is NO WAY Hgih sec can band together, because you can't trust anyone? That's pure nonsense. You don't get a pop up that says "do you trust this guy who is also shooting at the same target you want to shoot at" lol.

You high sec people will hide behind any possible (and illogical, fallacy filled) reason to not do anything on your own behalf, it's amazing.

It's further Amazing that you high sec can group up in Mega Bling Blobs to kill incursion rats with people you don't know while flying 5 billion isk Nightmares and Bhaalgorns, but going to fight the guys suicide ganking your Hulks in high sec with 200 mil isk Maelstroms is too much of a stretch trustwise?

WTF mate?

Well there's a lot of industry in high-sec, NPC corps, mining corps. I wouldn't say I know of many real PvP corps (except merc corps and RvB with their wargames), because there's no real PvP in high-sec (I don't count suicide jockeys and the wardecs in high-sec as being real PvP, maybe I've seen the wrong war decs). So you expect all the peeps from NPC corps, mining corps, solo corps, industry corps to jump in ships and tackle someone like the Goons and associates. Yeah right keep dreaming.

Is there any corp/alliance big enough to tackle Goons and all their associates now? I doubt it somehow and even if there was would they bother if they're not being bothered.

Why am I not surprised that you argue from the vantage point of being able to hotdrop? A player under 1 year experience is not likely to have access to such tools, even with friends as most cyno-capable corps and alliances require 10 million sp for consideration. You are viewing the world through an isk-filled wallet and the convenience of already having years of skill points.

I first jumped into low at around 3 million sp on my main. I didn't learn to pass through with relative ease until 5 million sp and by using a scout. I couldn't do anything useful once over there until 8 million sp and even then, with great risk of isk loss.

Do I think hotdropping gate camps is hilarious? Yes. Do I think it is a fair fight? Yes. Do I think it is good for player retention to let gate campers sit on a gate and farm ships that have a disadvantage due to the nature of the zone transition? No.

I want players to have a chance to see other aspects of the game. Many are not as adventurous as those of us who have spent time in Low/Null. The "EVE is hard herp derp" mantra is over used and childish. Well no shyte, it is hard? Wow, I haven't heard that 1,000 times. What has been tried, has thus far failed to get more players into lowsec. Change is needed.

Changes do not mean it gets easier. Make it harder on gate campers in HI-LOW transitions.

If those newbies banded together they would be a rather frightening force.

ITT everything coming down to team work and the average high-sec dwellers inability to use it.

Did anybody else feel the stupid in this thread go up?

Yeah, generally anytime Tarsus posts

Gate alerts, fair warning on how many ships are on the other side

Thats funny because I was talking about you.

Its more funny you think I care

Or that anyone does for that matter

Maybe instead of changing the gate camps , ccp should make some gate camp training sites run by NPC.

Where a new person could learn how to fit a ship and strategys to use to get through gate camps and bubbles . Make it part of the career agents.

Might even want to expand it to learn some other basics of surving in lo /null .

People armed with some basic knowledge might be less inclined to stay away from lo/null

Maybe instead of changing the gate camps , ccp should make some gate camp training sites run by NPC.

Where a new person could learn how to fit a ship and strategys to use to get through gate camps and bubbles . Make it part of the career agents.

Might even want to expand it to learn some other basics of surving in lo /null .

People armed with some basic knowledge might be less inclined to stay away from lo/null

Yea ppl like me can use a cloaky nullified easily. I'm talking about letting all have better access all sec space. Not just the 1 year plus players.

Get carebears access to null. Let them try it without having to signon to a null corp

Give me options!

Think newer player action

Or the whiners could use their grey matter to come up with a plan like everyone else did in the entire history of EVE.

As far as I know, there are a number of newbro training programs that get players acclimated to null-sec as soon as they start playing.

I have met members of TEST who have only spent - seriously - an hour or two total in high-sec their entire EVE career. They joined Dreddit after reading about TEST and EVE in general, and after finishing the tutorials podded themselves straight to 1DH/6VDT. If you are a player looking to move into low-sec or null-sec, there are people who will accommodate you. Do current game mechanics make that transition viable for a new player to make on their own? No. Is it possible for anyone with an interest to move out of high-sec with the assistance of others? Absolutely.

Yeah go down to 0.0 in an untanked hulk like I did. its fun.

Its people like you who force feed me kills.

Yeah go down to 0.0 in an untanked hulk like I did. its fun.



meh Id rather give my real money to CCP not the moderators of Something Aweful

Pretty sure you don't have to spend money on an SA account to join TEST or literally any CFC/SoCo alliance besides Goons.

Well there's a lot of industry in high-sec, NPC corps, mining corps. I wouldn't say I know of many real PvP corps (except merc corps and RvB with their wargames), because there's no real PvP in high-sec (I don't count suicide jockeys and the wardecs in high-sec as being real PvP, maybe I've seen the wrong war decs). So you expect all the peeps from NPC corps, mining corps, solo corps, industry corps to jump in ships and tackle someone like the Goons and associates. Yeah right keep dreaming.

Is there any corp/alliance big enough to tackle Goons and all their associates now? I doubt it somehow and even if there was would they bother if they're not being bothered.

As for Hulkageddon there's a lot of us in high-sec it does not even effect, which is another reason I can't see high-sec rising up as you would like to see. Sure PvPers would like to see high-sec PvPing but you can't force them too, it's not like the real world when pressure is applied because they always have a choice when it's a game.

ITT everything coming down to team work and the average high-sec dwellers inability to use it.

That's funny. So why don't all the "skilled - team work players" go around clearing gate camps? It's virtually unlimited PvP. Oh yeah... thought so ... you'd rather sit there and pop noobs that just started the game.

Gatecamping is heavily in favor of those that live in the lower sec areas. Choke points kill high sec ppl adventuring into low/ null.

[...]

Many ideas
- damage dampening effect around sec changing gates?
- dampening lock time effect?
- alternate pay gates?
- npc jump services?
- jump into gate at > 100km?

What I see is a few problems in conflict with each-other

1) New players get steam-rolled too easily and there is too much "cost", so either they leave Eve or stay in high-sec
2) Current attempts to make things "easier" for new players mostly give an un-fair advantage or remove much of the "fun" of low/null
3) Low/Null players are doing what is "fun", but in doing so, scare away new players keeping the player pool stagnant

I have nothing against low/null style play, but it is very hostile to people not used to the style. There must be a solution that doesn't involve making things easier.

Just a random idea, not well though out, but still an idea:

How about locations in high-sec beginning space that are like mission rooms, they have ship restrictions to keep non-newb ships out, and allow people to have a free-for-all. Make it so ship costs are low, but those ships cannot be used in the rest of the game.

So like a null sec in high sec, but with limitations that make it not so much fun for non-new players.

Spoken by an old character that missed the point. This is about getting interaction. As usual the oldies can't think of change.

Change, evolve, make eve better for new players to pvp

Well there's a lot of industry in high-sec, NPC corps, mining corps. I wouldn't say I know of many real PvP corps (except merc corps and RvB with their wargames), because there's no real PvP in high-sec (I don't count suicide jockeys and the wardecs in high-sec as being real PvP, maybe I've seen the wrong war decs). So you expect all the peeps from NPC corps, mining corps, solo corps, industry corps to jump in ships and tackle someone like the Goons and associates. Yeah right keep dreaming.