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What does a Minmatar EW specialist sing?

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Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.12.28 05:33:00 - [301] Originally by: Discorporation Mon, why you be messin' wit da gonz? Dem minnie bways no fight dere mastars in da Empire, not good, right? classic disco cant wait till my 6.5 million skillpoints in minnie gunnery actualy means something, so i dont have to fly a Raven, i swear that ship is about as ugly as it can get So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.12.28 05:33:00 - [302] Originally by: Discorporation Mon, why you be messin' wit da gonz? Dem minnie bways no fight dere mastars in da Empire, not good, right? classic disco cant wait till my 6.5 million skillpoints in minnie gunnery actualy means something, so i dont have to fly a Raven, i swear that ship is about as ugly as it can get So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Pothead CEO	Posted - 2004.12.28 11:25:00 - [303] and again my oppinion to solve that prob is to give the tracking bonus to the ships and not to the guns. with a decreased base-rof and ,for example, 5% dmg and tracking on a tempest, 1400's will be usefull again, but only on the ships they should be. if CCP increases the tracking on the guns itself, we wont see tempest,but more sniping scorps on the battlefield, full of tracking comps and sensorboosters. with new shipboni the minmatar ships ( DEFINATELY by far the weakest ships ingame in defense) will get a big bonus in offense, what might get them back in line, and maybe (???) able to bring down an apoc. something that is more than impossible if 2 equal experienced and skilled players fight each other. even if they will be slower than then now, if they hit like 75% and like 25% of that with criticals , a tempest will again be a worthy opponent, and not a moveable lootbox like now.... i personally like my idea well. lets see, what others think about
Pothead CEO	Posted - 2004.12.28 11:25:00 - [304] and again my oppinion to solve that prob is to give the tracking bonus to the ships and not to the guns. with a decreased base-rof and ,for example, 5% dmg and tracking on a tempest, 1400's will be usefull again, but only on the ships they should be. if CCP increases the tracking on the guns itself, we wont see tempest,but more sniping scorps on the battlefield, full of tracking comps and sensorboosters. with new shipboni the minmatar ships ( DEFINATELY by far the weakest ships ingame in defense) will get a big bonus in offense, what might get them back in line, and maybe (???) able to bring down an apoc. something that is more than impossible if 2 equal experienced and skilled players fight each other. even if they will be slower than then now, if they hit like 75% and like 25% of that with criticals , a tempest will again be a worthy opponent, and not a moveable lootbox like now.... i personally like my idea well. lets see, what others think about
Rivek	Posted - 2004.12.28 14:55:00 - [305] Hammerhead, such a change will only begin to address the balance issues that I try to bring to light in this thread: Linkage ---------------------------------------------- BS Weapon Comparison TunDraGon.com
Rivek	Posted - 2004.12.28 14:55:00 - [306] Hammerhead, such a change will only begin to address the balance issues that I try to bring to light in this thread: Linkage ---------------------------------------------- BS Weapon Comparison TunDraGon.com
Nervar	Posted - 2004.12.28 15:38:00 - [307] Originally by: Pothead CEO and again my oppinion to solve that prob is to give the tracking bonus to the ships and not to the guns. with a decreased base-rof and ,for example, 5% dmg and tracking on a tempest, 1400's will be usefull again, but only on the ships they should be. if CCP increases the tracking on the guns itself, we wont see tempest,but more sniping scorps on the battlefield, full of tracking comps and sensorboosters. with new shipboni the minmatar ships ( DEFINATELY by far the weakest ships ingame in defense) will get a big bonus in offense, what might get them back in line, and maybe (???) able to bring down an apoc. something that is more than impossible if 2 equal experienced and skilled players fight each other. even if they will be slower than then now, if they hit like 75% and like 25% of that with criticals , a tempest will again be a worthy opponent, and not a moveable lootbox like now.... i personally like my idea well. lets see, what others think about Wouldnt make much of an difference unless you decrease the base rof of the 1200's/1400's -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Nervar	Posted - 2004.12.28 15:38:00 - [308] Originally by: Pothead CEO and again my oppinion to solve that prob is to give the tracking bonus to the ships and not to the guns. with a decreased base-rof and ,for example, 5% dmg and tracking on a tempest, 1400's will be usefull again, but only on the ships they should be. if CCP increases the tracking on the guns itself, we wont see tempest,but more sniping scorps on the battlefield, full of tracking comps and sensorboosters. with new shipboni the minmatar ships ( DEFINATELY by far the weakest ships ingame in defense) will get a big bonus in offense, what might get them back in line, and maybe (???) able to bring down an apoc. something that is more than impossible if 2 equal experienced and skilled players fight each other. even if they will be slower than then now, if they hit like 75% and like 25% of that with criticals , a tempest will again be a worthy opponent, and not a moveable lootbox like now.... i personally like my idea well. lets see, what others think about Wouldnt make much of an difference unless you decrease the base rof of the 1200's/1400's -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.28 16:05:00 - [309] changes are quite good... maybe give them a higher chance to wreck... this means something like 1/50 instead 1/100 shots... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.28 16:05:00 - [310] changes are quite good... maybe give them a higher chance to wreck... this means something like 1/50 instead 1/100 shots... Greetings Grim
Aornn	Posted - 2004.12.29 10:11:00 - [311] Big friggin bump(tm). Sticky this! - http://fa.s-44.net/images/banners/blue/aornn.jpg[/IMG]
Aornn	Posted - 2004.12.29 10:11:00 - [312] Big friggin bump(tm). Sticky this! - http://fa.s-44.net/images/banners/blue/aornn.jpg[/IMG]
Drutort	Posted - 2004.12.29 22:08:00 - [313] I seriously cant see this fix as a fix, when proj need a boost in trackingà seriously thoughà and im not talking about trying to keep transv under 100 or lessà (which btw you would think would mean for ships smaller then bs, but its not true it stands the same even when fighting a bs û you need it at 100 or less to hit even BS) which btw the guns were made vs bs.. so I donÆt get why transv has to be so low even when fighting a BS. If proj are meant to miss then I 2nd that they should get better chance to do wrecking then other guns. No BS should have to put on tracking comps when fighting another BS at there optimal rangeà that just shows how broken proj are. And talking about energy? Please if proj donÆt hit the other target energy isnÆt an issue as you did jack dmg to them so they donÆt need to repair a damn thingà unlike minmatar were they are not the best at either armor or shield tankingà will have to be tankingà as the other player is guaranteed to be dealing dmg to you. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2004.12.29 22:08:00 - [314] I seriously cant see this fix as a fix, when proj need a boost in trackingà seriously thoughà and im not talking about trying to keep transv under 100 or lessà (which btw you would think would mean for ships smaller then bs, but its not true it stands the same even when fighting a bs û you need it at 100 or less to hit even BS) which btw the guns were made vs bs.. so I donÆt get why transv has to be so low even when fighting a BS. If proj are meant to miss then I 2nd that they should get better chance to do wrecking then other guns. No BS should have to put on tracking comps when fighting another BS at there optimal rangeà that just shows how broken proj are. And talking about energy? Please if proj donÆt hit the other target energy isnÆt an issue as you did jack dmg to them so they donÆt need to repair a damn thingà unlike minmatar were they are not the best at either armor or shield tankingà will have to be tankingà as the other player is guaranteed to be dealing dmg to you. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Aornn	Posted - 2004.12.30 11:52:00 - [315] I got hot glue gun and i aint afraid to use it!! Ie, Sticky, Pretty Please? - http://fa.s-44.net/images/banners/blue/aornn.jpg[/IMG]
Aornn	Posted - 2004.12.30 11:52:00 - [316] I got hot glue gun and i aint afraid to use it!! Ie, Sticky, Pretty Please? - http://fa.s-44.net/images/banners/blue/aornn.jpg[/IMG]
Hayden	Posted - 2004.12.31 20:01:00 - [317] This SHOULD be a sticky... Now you definetely need to look at the tracking of projectiles as well as damage over time. A friend of mine in a gankageddon could hit me anywhere... even at 0 meters. 800 artillery stops hitting at about 2 km, it misses everything completely. 1400's don't hit anything once you get below your max optimal range. Please look at what needs to be fixed with projectiles. Adding 15% damage here isn't enough.
Hayden	Posted - 2004.12.31 20:01:00 - [318] This SHOULD be a sticky... Now you definetely need to look at the tracking of projectiles as well as damage over time. A friend of mine in a gankageddon could hit me anywhere... even at 0 meters. 800 artillery stops hitting at about 2 km, it misses everything completely. 1400's don't hit anything once you get below your max optimal range. Please look at what needs to be fixed with projectiles. Adding 15% damage here isn't enough.
everaider	Posted - 2004.12.31 20:22:00 - [319] change the BS bonus to increase with skill level. 5-10% per level towards tracking of L turrets. the penalty of projectils should always remain their speed. one thing that really disheartens my trust in their equation of damage is the fact that a turret should never miss a stationary target even though they still do. A BS can no longer go fast enough at the range artilleries have to where their tracking speed would be too slow. Just would be nice if the tracking speed was made more realistic here on account for their distances. Obviously you wouldnt be able to hit anything up close moving 500m/s but you should be able to hit something at 100km moving 2km/s. I still refuse to fly a tempest with projectiles do to their nerfing. Sad thing is i have minmatar 5 :(. So in conclusion i agree with many here. Damage amount is fine, it is the tracking which needs improvement.
everaider	Posted - 2004.12.31 20:22:00 - [320] change the BS bonus to increase with skill level. 5-10% per level towards tracking of L turrets. the penalty of projectils should always remain their speed. one thing that really disheartens my trust in their equation of damage is the fact that a turret should never miss a stationary target even though they still do. A BS can no longer go fast enough at the range artilleries have to where their tracking speed would be too slow. Just would be nice if the tracking speed was made more realistic here on account for their distances. Obviously you wouldnt be able to hit anything up close moving 500m/s but you should be able to hit something at 100km moving 2km/s. I still refuse to fly a tempest with projectiles do to their nerfing. Sad thing is i have minmatar 5 :(. So in conclusion i agree with many here. Damage amount is fine, it is the tracking which needs improvement.
Hayden	Posted - 2005.01.01 19:14:00 - [321] It's both damage and tracking... And no changing the BS bonus to tracking and taking away either rate of fire or damage would be pretty foolish. How about making the tempest bonus 7.5% instead of 5%?
Pothead CEO	Posted - 2005.01.01 20:08:00 - [322] i don't think this will solve the problem either, just like the first time they raised the dot. u can give it 15% more dmg per skill level of a bs. 75% of 0 is still 0, and that is the problem. with the 5% tracking on the minmatar bs they should decrease the basic rof of projectiles also. even if it wouldn't be as fast (or slow) then atm, the dmgoutput will be better. doing more dmg with less shoots also means u mustn't reload that often, and a normal 1400mm only has 10 rounds equipped. so i still think the tracking bonus is far more important than damn higher dmgmultipliers . my first ship i used in pvp was an apoc with 8 1400mm (and it is ages ago) because they were ³ber. with an increased tracking on the weapon itself, it might get overpwered again and such a ship will be a nearly common sight again. and its just a suggestion. so why not give the tempest a damn tracking bonus on sisi and see what happens???
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.01.06 13:41:00 - [323] Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 06/01/2005 22:23:09 Originally by: Celt Eireson Well aware that upping the distance will reduce the amount of tracking you need, but at a fixed distance changing the optimal won't affect misses due to tracking i.e. if your ship is missing a lot due to tracking when firing at a range of 60km upping the optimal from say 40km to 50km won't reduce misses due to tracking if your ship stays at that range, hmmmm if that makes sense. Edit: going to try an explain better. Tracking is all or none. Either you can hit, or you can not. Tracking does not give you a 'hit percentage.' If you can track your enemy, and he is at or below optimal, you will have your maximum 'hit percentage.' That hit percentage will fall as you extend your distance to "optimal + falloff." (Your damage is reduced because your hit percentage is reduced; you do not start getting more 'barely scratches.') Thus, increasing optimal is going to increase your hit percentage for those distances above optimal. If you can't track, all bets are off. But the long guns don't have a tracking issue, imho, its a falloff issue. Take the 1400 Howitzer artillery with tracking of .009. It can hit a BS @40000 with transversal of 360m/s (optimal) @60000 with transversal of 540m/s @70000 with transversal of 630m/s For frigate divide speed by 10. This is more than enough 'tracking' to hit a BS going transversally, that does not use an AB or MWD, and no where near enough tracking to hit a frigate. So increasing tracking won't help at and above optimal unless you are trying to make the 1400s hit BS with AB without requiring a tracking computer. So I don't think the change is backwards wrt/ artillery. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Pothead CEO	Posted - 2005.01.06 23:46:00 - [324] you are damn right. its all about hitable or not hitable. the problem is that too many things are not hitable in an ok manner...
Shidhe	Posted - 2005.01.07 13:35:00 - [325] Good to see things are rolling now... But how are Minnie ships supposed to shield tank when they still need lots of modules to be able to 1) hit anywhere near as well as the other ships 2) boost lock range to get to the range where their long range weapons are supposed to work. I dont get the explanation about cant boost tracking because of remote tracking boosting - that could apply to any BS weapons- AND any other race could do it more easily... Projectiles need to be able to hit reasonably, anything else will still leave a problem.

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