Originally by: Sochin

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CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.

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Originally by: Sochin

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CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too

By the way, I just gave autocannons 20% better tracking, artilleries 15% more damage and optimal range and howitzers 15% more damage on the test server. Ya mon, let's see if this fixes projectiles.

We're jammin', jammin', we're jammin', jammin'....

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too

By the way, I just gave autocannons 20% better tracking, artilleries 15% more damage and optimal range and howitzers 15% more damage on the test server. Ya mon, let's see if this fixes projectiles.

We're jammin', jammin', we're jammin', jammin'....

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too

---

Originally by: CCP Hammer

---

Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too

---

Originally by: CCP Hammer

---

Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too

By the way, I just gave autocannons 20% better tracking, artilleries 15% more damage and optimal range and howitzers 15% more damage on the test server. Ya mon, let's see if this fixes projectiles.

We're jammin', jammin', we're jammin', jammin'....

---

Originally by: CCP Hammer

---

Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too

By the way, I just gave autocannons 20% better tracking, artilleries 15% more damage and optimal range and howitzers 15% more damage on the test server. Ya mon, let's see if this fixes projectiles.

We're jammin', jammin', we're jammin', jammin'....

---

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

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Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

---

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

---

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

---

Quote:

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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage

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Quote:

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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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it would have been better if you had given 15% more dmg to autocannons and 20% more tracking to artillerys

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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it would have been better if you had given 15% more dmg to autocannons and 20% more tracking to artillerys

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Originally by: Ultrabug

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Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:33:36
Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:32:18

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

I agree, 1400 suffer more of the tracking and RoF than damage imo ! Inverted stats would make more sense to me but wouldn't be enough.

Lasers get all the benefits : tracking + RoF + NO AMMO CHANGING TIME. How can you imagine such little changes will balance that ? Why doing more damage if you can't get a hit ??? Rolling Eyes

---

lasers went from rubbish ( all amarr ships fitting hybrids) to good with a single 5% per ship lvl decrease in cap use. this was because other turrets types simply out damaged lasers for the use of less cap leaving no point in fitting them.

the changes suggested are between 15%-20% of diffrent attributes, would it not be better to fully test these increase before nerfing lasers?

Originally by: Ultrabug

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Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:33:36
Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:32:18

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

---

How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

I agree, 1400 suffer more of the tracking and RoF than damage imo ! Inverted stats would make more sense to me but wouldn't be enough.

Lasers get all the benefits : tracking + RoF + NO AMMO CHANGING TIME. How can you imagine such little changes will balance that ? Why doing more damage if you can't get a hit ??? Rolling Eyes

---

lasers went from rubbish ( all amarr ships fitting hybrids) to good with a single 5% per ship lvl decrease in cap use. this was because other turrets types simply out damaged lasers for the use of less cap leaving no point in fitting them.

the changes suggested are between 15%-20% of diffrent attributes, would it not be better to fully test these increase before nerfing lasers?

Originally by: jukriamrr

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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it would have been better if you had given 15% more dmg to autocannons and 20% more tracking to artillerys

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yes, maybe that would be a VERY nice solution.

---

Quote:

---

Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage

---

Originally by: jukriamrr

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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it would have been better if you had given 15% more dmg to autocannons and 20% more tracking to artillerys

---

yes, maybe that would be a VERY nice solution.

---

Quote:

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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: jukriamrr

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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it would have been better if you had given 15% more dmg to autocannons and 20% more tracking to artillerys

---

yes, maybe that would be a VERY nice solution.

---

...how about 20% more tracking + 5% more RoF to AC's coupled with a 100% increase on ammo clip, and 15% more damage and 7.5% more tracking to artys?

AC's nowadays chew too much ammo, making reloading very comon with them. An increase on the ammout of ammo that they can load would be very nice.

---

Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: jukriamrr

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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it would have been better if you had given 15% more dmg to autocannons and 20% more tracking to artillerys

---

yes, maybe that would be a VERY nice solution.

---

...how about 20% more tracking + 5% more RoF to AC's coupled with a 100% increase on ammo clip, and 15% more damage and 7.5% more tracking to artys?

AC's nowadays chew too much ammo, making reloading very comon with them. An increase on the ammout of ammo that they can load would be very nice.

---

Originally by: Grimpak

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...how about 20% more tracking + 5% more RoF to AC's coupled with a 100% increase on ammo clip, and 15% more damage and 7.5% more tracking to artys?

AC's nowadays chew too much ammo, making reloading very comon with them. An increase on the ammout of ammo that they can load would be very nice.

---

Originally by: Grimpak

---

...how about 20% more tracking + 5% more RoF to AC's coupled with a 100% increase on ammo clip, and 15% more damage and 7.5% more tracking to artys?

AC's nowadays chew too much ammo, making reloading very comon with them. An increase on the ammout of ammo that they can load would be very nice.

---

Originally by: DarkMatters

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Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:50
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:09
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:49:26

Originally by: Ultrabug

---

Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:33:36
Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:32:18

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

---

How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

I agree, 1400 suffer more of the tracking and RoF than damage imo ! Inverted stats would make more sense to me but wouldn't be enough.

Lasers get all the benefits : tracking + RoF + NO AMMO CHANGING TIME. How can you imagine such little changes will balance that ? Why doing more damage if you can't get a hit ??? Rolling Eyes

---

lasers went from rubbish ( all amarr ships fitting hybrids) to good with a single 5% per ship lvl decrease in cap use. this was because other turrets types simply out damaged lasers for the use of less cap leaving no point in fitting them.

the changes suggested are between 15%-20% of diffrent attributes, would it not be better to fully test these increase before nerfing lasers?

---

you forget the tracking changes

and i think chrystales got beafed upped
Wanna fly with me?

Originally by: DarkMatters

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Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:50
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:09
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:49:26

Originally by: Ultrabug

---

Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:33:36
Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:32:18

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

---

How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

I agree, 1400 suffer more of the tracking and RoF than damage imo ! Inverted stats would make more sense to me but wouldn't be enough.

Lasers get all the benefits : tracking + RoF + NO AMMO CHANGING TIME. How can you imagine such little changes will balance that ? Why doing more damage if you can't get a hit ??? Rolling Eyes

---

lasers went from rubbish ( all amarr ships fitting hybrids) to good with a single 5% per ship lvl decrease in cap use. this was because other turrets types simply out damaged lasers for the use of less cap leaving no point in fitting them.

the changes suggested are between 15%-20% of diffrent attributes, would it not be better to fully test these increase before nerfing lasers?

---

you forget the tracking changes

and i think chrystales got beafed upped
Wanna fly with me?

Originally by: Nafri

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you forget the tracking changes

and i think chrystales got beafed upped

---

Originally by: Nafri

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you forget the tracking changes

and i think chrystales got beafed upped

---

Originally by: DarkMatters

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Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:50
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:09
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:49:26

Originally by: Ultrabug

---

Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:33:36
Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:32:18

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

---

How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

I agree, 1400 suffer more of the tracking and RoF than damage imo ! Inverted stats would make more sense to me but wouldn't be enough.

Lasers get all the benefits : tracking + RoF + NO AMMO CHANGING TIME. How can you imagine such little changes will balance that ? Why doing more damage if you can't get a hit ??? Rolling Eyes

---

lasers went from rubbish ( all amarr ships fitting hybrids) to good with a single 5% per ship lvl decrease in cap use. this was because other turrets types simply out damaged lasers for the use of less cap leaving no point in fitting them.

the changes suggested are between 15%-20% of diffrent attributes, would it not be better to fully test these increase before nerfing lasers?

---

And what about Amarr ship the only ships getting 10% bonuses ?...
Crystals has been changed btw proj don't statistically no longer have the best dmg output at optimal !

Originally by: DarkMatters

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Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:50
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:50:09
Edited by: DarkMatters on 21/12/2004 16:49:26

Originally by: Ultrabug

---

Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:33:36
Edited by: Ultrabug on 21/12/2004 16:32:18

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

---

How about, testing these stats. Then switching it and giving autocannons the damage increase and the big guns the tracking increase. Because, and it may be only me here, i think that would be more beneficial.

As the issue with the projectiles was that they cant hit a barn door. But any positive nerf is something eh? Just a suggestion.

I agree, 1400 suffer more of the tracking and RoF than damage imo ! Inverted stats would make more sense to me but wouldn't be enough.

Lasers get all the benefits : tracking + RoF + NO AMMO CHANGING TIME. How can you imagine such little changes will balance that ? Why doing more damage if you can't get a hit ??? Rolling Eyes

---

lasers went from rubbish ( all amarr ships fitting hybrids) to good with a single 5% per ship lvl decrease in cap use. this was because other turrets types simply out damaged lasers for the use of less cap leaving no point in fitting them.

the changes suggested are between 15%-20% of diffrent attributes, would it not be better to fully test these increase before nerfing lasers?

---

And what about Amarr ship the only ships getting 10% bonuses ?...
Crystals has been changed btw proj don't statistically no longer have the best dmg output at optimal !

Originally by: Eris Discordia

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Please reply constructively

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Originally by: Eris Discordia

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Please reply constructively

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Originally by: Sochin

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Originally by: Eris Discordia

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Please reply constructively

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Rofl, you post this one post AFTER talking about how hypnotic flashing UI lights look when stoned?

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Originally by: Sochin

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Originally by: Eris Discordia

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Please reply constructively

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Rofl, you post this one post AFTER talking about how hypnotic flashing UI lights look when stoned?

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Originally by: Gian Bal

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Edited by: Gian Bal on 21/12/2004 18:21:45
to all thoose that don't see the light: theese cahnges rock in their way, and it is far more than i expected. i tested proj. few times with a dev creating a new char for it ( he had an irregulary in his char information, so i recognized him, still no idea who it was). the problem they have to to 1400mm is that they will be to strong with more tracking , as u can boost a tempest with a scorp and then even able to hit intys (i was in claw and he hitted me). i talke a bit with him, and theese 15% on 1400mm we have now is far better than most of u may see on the first look. eve gives all its boni in percent. that means, 50% bonus with skills/mods/etc. on a dmgmultiplier on 5 is FAR more than on 2,5, of course. with current changes, 1400mm does WAYS more dmg with matari ship boni then before. but they do it only on big targets , as supposed, the point why howitzers won't get an increase in tracking is just to not make them able to sniper everything out (like my claw or crow) when boosted by medslotmonsters... x(the dev that tested it with me) told me that they can't increase the dmg due to that percent thing i talked of 3 rows earlier. so 15% is far more than could be nice to enemies of a tempest gang.
x, whoever u are, i love ya, man

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Originally by: Gian Bal

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Edited by: Gian Bal on 21/12/2004 18:21:45
to all thoose that don't see the light: theese cahnges rock in their way, and it is far more than i expected. i tested proj. few times with a dev creating a new char for it ( he had an irregulary in his char information, so i recognized him, still no idea who it was). the problem they have to to 1400mm is that they will be to strong with more tracking , as u can boost a tempest with a scorp and then even able to hit intys (i was in claw and he hitted me). i talke a bit with him, and theese 15% on 1400mm we have now is far better than most of u may see on the first look. eve gives all its boni in percent. that means, 50% bonus with skills/mods/etc. on a dmgmultiplier on 5 is FAR more than on 2,5, of course. with current changes, 1400mm does WAYS more dmg with matari ship boni then before. but they do it only on big targets , as supposed, the point why howitzers won't get an increase in tracking is just to not make them able to sniper everything out (like my claw or crow) when boosted by medslotmonsters... x(the dev that tested it with me) told me that they can't increase the dmg due to that percent thing i talked of 3 rows earlier. so 15% is far more than could be nice to enemies of a tempest gang.
x, whoever u are, i love ya, man

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Originally by: Sochin

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Originally by: Eris Discordia

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Please reply constructively

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Rofl, you post this one post AFTER talking about how hypnotic flashing UI lights look when stoned?

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Originally by: Sochin

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Originally by: Eris Discordia

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Please reply constructively

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Rofl, you post this one post AFTER talking about how hypnotic flashing UI lights look when stoned?

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Originally by: Hakera

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nah the original change is good, autocannons miss a hell of a lot.

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Originally by: Hakera

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a 50% magazine increase would be cool across the board.

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Originally by: Hakera

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nah the original change is good, autocannons miss a hell of a lot.

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Originally by: Hakera

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a 50% magazine increase would be cool across the board.

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

megapulses work from 5 to 60km

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Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

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Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

megapulses work from 5 to 60km

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Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

ohh and i forgot, atm megapules on armas do 40% damage then any other long range gun

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Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

ohh and i forgot, atm megapules on armas do 40% damage then any other long range gun

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Originally by: Anteract

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This is whats wrong with projectiles...

[ 2004.12.21 04:13:36 ] (combat) Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I glances off Ruined Stargate, causing no real damage.

Sitting still. Both of us.

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Originally by: Anteract

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This is whats wrong with projectiles...

[ 2004.12.21 04:13:36 ] (combat) Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I glances off Ruined Stargate, causing no real damage.

Sitting still. Both of us.

---

Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

ohh and i forgot, atm megapules on armas do 40% damage then any other long range gun

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I don't agree with this one... If you use megapulse for long range, you use low-damage crystals. You then get less damage than real long-range guns. I rather prefer using rails for this job.

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Razaelle

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Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

ohh and i forgot, atm megapules on armas do 40% damage then any other long range gun

---

I don't agree with this one... If you use megapulse for long range, you use low-damage crystals. You then get less damage than real long-range guns. I rather prefer using rails for this job.

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

megapulses work from 5 to 60km

---

Granted, megapulses are somewhat overpowered atm.
But IMO this doesn't invalidate that arties and pulses are not sharing the same roles and thus should not be compared.

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

And for lasers, you should not compare pulses with arties... pulses are the equivalent of autocannons, megabeams and tachs are the equivalent of arties. Have you tried to hit anything with tachs at short range recently ?

---

megapulses work from 5 to 60km

---

Granted, megapulses are somewhat overpowered atm.
But IMO this doesn't invalidate that arties and pulses are not sharing the same roles and thus should not be compared.

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

Why start yapping about lasers and hybrids ? Im very happy that CCP are trying to fix the broken brother among the weapon types. I hope they succeed.

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

And apropos the hybrids, it cant be that bad, since you dont see many Megathrons fitting lasers because the hybrids do too little damage, do you ? Thats what it was like before the laser change, people fitted hybrids on their Apocs because lasers did too little damage....

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

Why start yapping about lasers and hybrids ? Im very happy that CCP are trying to fix the broken brother among the weapon types. I hope they succeed.

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

And apropos the hybrids, it cant be that bad, since you dont see many Megathrons fitting lasers because the hybrids do too little damage, do you ? Thats what it was like before the laser change, people fitted hybrids on their Apocs because lasers did too little damage....

---

Originally by: "siddy"

---

now im going to ask - HOW hard was it to introduce thees changes... err 3 MONTHs earlier?

---

Originally by: "siddy"

---

now im going to ask - HOW hard was it to introduce thees changes... err 3 MONTHs earlier?

---

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

Why start yapping about lasers and hybrids ? Im very happy that CCP are trying to fix the broken brother among the weapon types. I hope they succeed.

---

Because laser are a tad overpowered now?

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

And apropos the hybrids, it cant be that bad, since you dont see many Megathrons fitting lasers because the hybrids do too little damage, do you ? Thats what it was like before the laser change, people fitted hybrids on their Apocs because lasers did too little damage....

---

You can only effectively use lasers on amarr ships, because of the cap.
And lasers do outdmg hybrids in almost all pvp situations.

What you do forget is that a) cap reduction bonus changed from 5% to 10%! causing lasers to use less cap on amarr ships than hybrids do.
b) that laser dmg got uped
c) that laser have the best tracking (more and better hits = hihger dot)

So i do think the way for balance will be to get lasers a bit down, while upping projs dmg trough ship boni and tweaking hybrids a bit.

---

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

Why start yapping about lasers and hybrids ? Im very happy that CCP are trying to fix the broken brother among the weapon types. I hope they succeed.

---

Because laser are a tad overpowered now?

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

And apropos the hybrids, it cant be that bad, since you dont see many Megathrons fitting lasers because the hybrids do too little damage, do you ? Thats what it was like before the laser change, people fitted hybrids on their Apocs because lasers did too little damage....

---

You can only effectively use lasers on amarr ships, because of the cap.
And lasers do outdmg hybrids in almost all pvp situations.

What you do forget is that a) cap reduction bonus changed from 5% to 10%! causing lasers to use less cap on amarr ships than hybrids do.
b) that laser dmg got uped
c) that laser have the best tracking (more and better hits = hihger dot)

So i do think the way for balance will be to get lasers a bit down, while upping projs dmg trough ship boni and tweaking hybrids a bit.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Erm...how do lasers outdamage in PvP situations?

---

Quote:

---

Lasers only do two damage types and every half intelligent pilot in the game makes sure they are hardened for that damage when going into PvP.

---

Quote:

---

At least with missiles/hybrids and projectiles you can pick and choose your ammo to do different damage types.

---

Quote:

---

BTW CCP good work on boosting projectiles. It was demoralising having to blow up lovely Amarrian ships flown by Minmatar terrorists. Maybe now they will get back into their rustbuckets

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Erm...how do lasers outdamage in PvP situations?

---

Quote:

---

Lasers only do two damage types and every half intelligent pilot in the game makes sure they are hardened for that damage when going into PvP.

---

Quote:

---

At least with missiles/hybrids and projectiles you can pick and choose your ammo to do different damage types.

---

Quote:

---

BTW CCP good work on boosting projectiles. It was demoralising having to blow up lovely Amarrian ships flown by Minmatar terrorists. Maybe now they will get back into their rustbuckets

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

because they have a higher DoT - just compare the base crystal damage against projectiles.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

lasers use no ammo, with the HP increase, ammo will become an important factor in who wins as well as the reload time, as 20 sec to reload every 140 secs decreases your DoT by 20-30%.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

not quite - with no tracking on the artilleries, we still wont hit for **** but something is better than nothing at all.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

because they have a higher DoT - just compare the base crystal damage against projectiles.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

lasers use no ammo, with the HP increase, ammo will become an important factor in who wins as well as the reload time, as 20 sec to reload every 140 secs decreases your DoT by 20-30%.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

not quite - with no tracking on the artilleries, we still wont hit for **** but something is better than nothing at all.

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

not quite - with no tracking on the artilleries, we still wont hit for **** but something is better than nothing at all.

---

Increased Damage mod is actually a better option then tracking. The DoT will increase, making those hits you do get count even more. The Artilery and Howitzer tracking will stay like it is, since adding more tracking will make them vastly superior to all other guns (which was why the 1400mms got nerfed in the first place).

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

not quite - with no tracking on the artilleries, we still wont hit for **** but something is better than nothing at all.

---

Increased Damage mod is actually a better option then tracking. The DoT will increase, making those hits you do get count even more. The Artilery and Howitzer tracking will stay like it is, since adding more tracking will make them vastly superior to all other guns (which was why the 1400mms got nerfed in the first place).

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

TomB has stated in his original Blog that ammo sizes and possible magazine sizes will be adjusted to compensate for battles lasting longer.

Not a good argument

---

Quote:

---

Increased Damage mod is actually a better option then tracking. The DoT will increase, making those hits you do get count even more. The Artilery and Howitzer tracking will stay like it is, since adding more tracking will make them vastly superior to all other guns (which was why the 1400mms got nerfed in the first place).

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

TomB has stated in his original Blog that ammo sizes and possible magazine sizes will be adjusted to compensate for battles lasting longer.

Not a good argument

---

Quote:

---

Increased Damage mod is actually a better option then tracking. The DoT will increase, making those hits you do get count even more. The Artilery and Howitzer tracking will stay like it is, since adding more tracking will make them vastly superior to all other guns (which was why the 1400mms got nerfed in the first place).

---

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Which is why laser need a tracking nerf ;)

---

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Which is why laser need a tracking nerf ;)

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

nevertheless, reload does decrease DoT, now if it stays the same and we must reload, every 140 seconds or 280 seconds, its still a big factor in DoT consideration, not to mention the fact it takes 20 sec if we must switch ammo due to a hardned target. Add to that the few seconds it takes to pull up the reload menu.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

all well & true, but we still must hit in order to cause damage.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

nevertheless, reload does decrease DoT, now if it stays the same and we must reload, every 140 seconds or 280 seconds, its still a big factor in DoT consideration, not to mention the fact it takes 20 sec if we must switch ammo due to a hardned target. Add to that the few seconds it takes to pull up the reload menu.

---

Originally by: Hakera

---

all well & true, but we still must hit in order to cause damage.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

Why start yapping about lasers and hybrids ? Im very happy that CCP are trying to fix the broken brother among the weapon types. I hope they succeed.

---

Because laser are a tad overpowered now?

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

And apropos the hybrids, it cant be that bad, since you dont see many Megathrons fitting lasers because the hybrids do too little damage, do you ? Thats what it was like before the laser change, people fitted hybrids on their Apocs because lasers did too little damage....

---

You can only effectively use lasers on amarr ships, because of the cap.
And lasers do outdmg hybrids in almost all pvp situations.

What you do forget is that a) cap reduction bonus changed from 5% to 10%! causing lasers to use less cap on amarr ships than hybrids do.
b) that laser dmg got uped
c) that laser have the best tracking (more and better hits = hihger dot)

So i do think the way for balance will be to get lasers a bit down, while upping projs dmg trough ship boni and tweaking hybrids a bit.

---

Erm...how do lasers outdamage in PvP situations?

Lasers only do two damage types and every half intelligent pilot in the game makes sure they are hardened for that damage when going into PvP.

At least with missiles/hybrids and projectiles you can pick and choose your ammo to do different damage types.

BTW CCP good work on boosting projectiles. It was demoralising having to blow up lovely Amarrian ships flown by Minmatar terrorists. Maybe now they will get back into their rustbuckets

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

Why start yapping about lasers and hybrids ? Im very happy that CCP are trying to fix the broken brother among the weapon types. I hope they succeed.

---

Because laser are a tad overpowered now?

Originally by: Helmut 314

---

And apropos the hybrids, it cant be that bad, since you dont see many Megathrons fitting lasers because the hybrids do too little damage, do you ? Thats what it was like before the laser change, people fitted hybrids on their Apocs because lasers did too little damage....

---

You can only effectively use lasers on amarr ships, because of the cap.
And lasers do outdmg hybrids in almost all pvp situations.

What you do forget is that a) cap reduction bonus changed from 5% to 10%! causing lasers to use less cap on amarr ships than hybrids do.
b) that laser dmg got uped
c) that laser have the best tracking (more and better hits = hihger dot)

So i do think the way for balance will be to get lasers a bit down, while upping projs dmg trough ship boni and tweaking hybrids a bit.

---

Erm...how do lasers outdamage in PvP situations?

Lasers only do two damage types and every half intelligent pilot in the game makes sure they are hardened for that damage when going into PvP.

At least with missiles/hybrids and projectiles you can pick and choose your ammo to do different damage types.

BTW CCP good work on boosting projectiles. It was demoralising having to blow up lovely Amarrian ships flown by Minmatar terrorists. Maybe now they will get back into their rustbuckets

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

Edited by: Discorporation on 22/12/2004 12:29:37

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Which is why laser need a tracking nerf ;)

---

Only the Mega Pulse laser. The rest are perfectly fine.

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

Edited by: Discorporation on 22/12/2004 12:29:37

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Which is why laser need a tracking nerf ;)

---

Only the Mega Pulse laser. The rest are perfectly fine.

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

no, look at my post

1400er AND 425er are both underpowered atm, compared to megabeams


ohh and only the range of megapulses is fubared, not the damage

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

no, look at my post

1400er AND 425er are both underpowered atm, compared to megabeams


ohh and only the range of megapulses is fubared, not the damage

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

Originally by: Jack Ryan

---

It's Hammer time!

---

Originally by: Jack Ryan

---

It's Hammer time!

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Hmmmmm unless I'm completely mistaken optimal range has no relationship whatsoever to tracking - increasing optimal will both extend range and increase average damage slightly for a given range, for a given set of skills and setup changing optimal will have no effect on missing due to tracking. The distance at which tracking becomes an issue is set based on skills and the gun tracking alone.

---

False. The farthest the ennemy, the less tracking you need.
You get a 15% bonus on optimal, so you can attack from 15% farthest and then hit more easely than before.

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

Edited by: Discorporation on 22/12/2004 12:29:37

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Which is why laser need a tracking nerf ;)

---

Only the Mega Pulse laser. The rest are perfectly fine.

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

Edited by: Discorporation on 22/12/2004 12:29:37

Originally by: Arthur Guinness

---

Which is why laser need a tracking nerf ;)

---

Only the Mega Pulse laser. The rest are perfectly fine.

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Well aware that upping the distance will reduce the amount of tracking you need, but at a fixed distance changing the optimal won't affect misses due to tracking i.e. if your ship is missing a lot due to tracking when firing at a range of 60km upping the optimal from say 40km to 50km won't reduce misses due to tracking if your ship stays at that range, hmmmm if that makes sense.

---

Originally by: Celt Eireson

---

Well aware that upping the distance will reduce the amount of tracking you need, but at a fixed distance changing the optimal won't affect misses due to tracking i.e. if your ship is missing a lot due to tracking when firing at a range of 60km upping the optimal from say 40km to 50km won't reduce misses due to tracking if your ship stays at that range, hmmmm if that makes sense.

---

Originally by: Zhuge Liang

---

I just splurted tea all over my screen.

---

Originally by: Zhuge Liang

---

I just splurted tea all over my screen.

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

Stop wining about nerfing lazers

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

Amar ships do not have damage bonuses like Mega and Tempest + 25%
Megapulse is a short range weapon - with radio at 60km it does like 100-150 dmg per shot only (without resists). They have the highest fitting requirements - they were nerfed for a very long long long time. Now they finally turned in to something that found it's way in to actual gameplay. They are unnerfing Projects, Rails are probably next. What the hell is wrong with you people let us ask for further improvements not cutting down what we were fighting for to be improved previously.

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

Stop wining about nerfing lazers

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

Amar ships do not have damage bonuses like Mega and Tempest + 25%
Megapulse is a short range weapon - with radio at 60km it does like 100-150 dmg per shot only (without resists). They have the highest fitting requirements - they were nerfed for a very long long long time. Now they finally turned in to something that found it's way in to actual gameplay. They are unnerfing Projects, Rails are probably next. What the hell is wrong with you people let us ask for further improvements not cutting down what we were fighting for to be improved previously.

---

Originally by: Proconsul Para

---

I really doubt that tracking here and damage there is the answer we projectile users were waiting for.
The whole mathematical equation behind them is borked and inconsistent.

For instance:
- going head-on with the target should account for bigger transversal velocity, as opposed to trailing or being trailed by a target at roughly the same speed. But lo and behold, I get more consistent hits in a head-on encounter then when I'm "kiting".
- tracking computers should improve the chance to hit. They may be doing so, but in a weird way. I can put more 1400mm hits on a frigate at optimal + a few km after switching off my tracking module.
- missing a station with at least 10% of the shots, while sitting still at optimal, is just wrong.

And come on DEVs, can't u just take pairs of people with the same skill-point spread in gunnery and spaceship command, of different races, fabricate some targets and let 'em all shoot for a coupla hours? U'd get a nice database with percentage of hits, dot and whatever. I'll volunteer.

---

Originally by: Proconsul Para

---

I really doubt that tracking here and damage there is the answer we projectile users were waiting for.
The whole mathematical equation behind them is borked and inconsistent.

For instance:
- going head-on with the target should account for bigger transversal velocity, as opposed to trailing or being trailed by a target at roughly the same speed. But lo and behold, I get more consistent hits in a head-on encounter then when I'm "kiting".
- tracking computers should improve the chance to hit. They may be doing so, but in a weird way. I can put more 1400mm hits on a frigate at optimal + a few km after switching off my tracking module.
- missing a station with at least 10% of the shots, while sitting still at optimal, is just wrong.

And come on DEVs, can't u just take pairs of people with the same skill-point spread in gunnery and spaceship command, of different races, fabricate some targets and let 'em all shoot for a coupla hours? U'd get a nice database with percentage of hits, dot and whatever. I'll volunteer.

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

How can you further reduce a range for a megapulse? Range with Multi lens which can do some damage now without trackers is 16-15 km. Do not forget that lazer optimal is what actually written ON the gun it is not like proj or rail which is optimal + faloff. Raven can tank 2 arma's or apocs with ease what the hell are you talking about if you can not outfit your ship to tank 2 types of damage it is your problem. People invest skills in to lasers like you did in projectiles so what now we are all supposed to fly Ravens again? Bah - do whatever you want I will still find the best combination to kill you without Arma or Apoc or Raven - I will fight in a suicide shuttle mwhahaha =)))

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

How can you further reduce a range for a megapulse? Range with Multi lens which can do some damage now without trackers is 16-15 km. Do not forget that lazer optimal is what actually written ON the gun it is not like proj or rail which is optimal + faloff. Raven can tank 2 arma's or apocs with ease what the hell are you talking about if you can not outfit your ship to tank 2 types of damage it is your problem. People invest skills in to lasers like you did in projectiles so what now we are all supposed to fly Ravens again? Bah - do whatever you want I will still find the best combination to kill you without Arma or Apoc or Raven - I will fight in a suicide shuttle mwhahaha =)))

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

15% more damage = one less Gyro. Fit a T II Tracking mod and vila, Roflpwns.

---

Originally by: Discorporation

---

15% more damage = one less Gyro. Fit a T II Tracking mod and vila, Roflpwns.

---

Originally by: CCP Hammer

---

...By the way, I just gave autocannons 20% better tracking, artilleries 15% more damage and optimal range and howitzers 15% more damage on the test server. Ya mon, let's see if this fixes projectiles.

---

Originally by: CCP Hammer

---

...By the way, I just gave autocannons 20% better tracking, artilleries 15% more damage and optimal range and howitzers 15% more damage on the test server. Ya mon, let's see if this fixes projectiles.

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

If you have all skills on average 4th level no wonder you can't see advantages of different weapons.

I have a friend who started trainig gallente all the way I did the same with ammarr (ships and weapons) I've never seen him complain about his Mega-T with 5th level gallente BS and 9mln in gunnery using T2 425mm. I'm sure that a lot of ppl invested skills in to Projectiles and I am happy to see that they are about to be boosted. But I am competly against any type of nurfing of anything. Just boost the counter measure to whatever is too powerful and not nurf.

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

If you have all skills on average 4th level no wonder you can't see advantages of different weapons.

I have a friend who started trainig gallente all the way I did the same with ammarr (ships and weapons) I've never seen him complain about his Mega-T with 5th level gallente BS and 9mln in gunnery using T2 425mm. I'm sure that a lot of ppl invested skills in to Projectiles and I am happy to see that they are about to be boosted. But I am competly against any type of nurfing of anything. Just boost the counter measure to whatever is too powerful and not nurf.

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Anteract

---

This is whats wrong with projectiles...

[ 2004.12.21 04:13:36 ] (combat) Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I glances off Ruined Stargate, causing no real damage.

Sitting still. Both of us.

---

At optimal range ?

---

Originally by: Razaelle

---

Originally by: Anteract

---

This is whats wrong with projectiles...

[ 2004.12.21 04:13:36 ] (combat) Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I glances off Ruined Stargate, causing no real damage.

Sitting still. Both of us.

---

At optimal range ?

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Kay Rissa

---

*snip*

---

you dont get the point

megabeams = 40% more damage then 425er rails with equal skills

---