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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:06:00 -
[1]
So- enjoying our contracted war dec to punish Fatal Ascension, in its 2nd week, at 11 days, our alliance is issued the typical war-dec cooldown message. It seemed a little odd, and upon looking at the war page in alliance, math shows that it ended 3 days later. Our Executor is issued a refund by a GM, with no reasoning, notice or anything (deposited into his personal wallet and not into the alliance wallet).
Both the Executor and my corp CEO have petitioned this to find out exactly why this happened, and so far nothing. Since the dec has ended they have moved billions of ISK out of Jita and the surrounding trade hubs and Gained Sov in 4 systems. Given their safe window (24 hours to cooldown before we can re-dec them plus having someone on to push the button) they have since vanished getting away with what we were charged to prevent them with to begin with.
Sure this is EvE, and blah blah blah **** happens, but does this seem strange to anyone else?
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Paul Clavet
Honorless Internet Jerks
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Paul Clavet on 15/11/2010 04:11:41 My advice is to get screenshots of the wallet transactions and in-game notifications. Post them here (for cred, word) and at another non-CCP forum, since things like this tend to fall down the memory hole...
(Edited for terrible spelling) ---- Blog: My Loot, Your Tears |
Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:15:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Aerion Va''rr on 15/11/2010 04:19:10 Edited by: Aerion Va''rr on 15/11/2010 04:18:53
Originally by: Paul Clavet My advise is to get screenshots of the wallet transactions and in-game notifications. Post them here (for cred, word) and at another non-CCP forum, since things like this tend to fall down the memory hole...
Yeah I'm not one with roles to get screenies of the important stuff, Proof will come I'm sure, we delayed posting this to wait for some kind of response from the GM's but like all things, if its not important enough to get answered in the first 24 hours, the received answer is typically BS.
All I can post is the original screens of the war-dec notifications, and the retract.
DOTLan Alliance Info on FA : Linkage Killboard Campaign: Linkage (it was never reset, as soon as it was retracted, we immediately re-dec'd them as soon as the cooldown ended.)
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:28:00 -
[4]
Petition it. Get multiple pilots to petition it.
----
Gullible
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Rustpunk
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:29:00 -
[5]
I suggest contacting Internal Affairs if a senior GM is unable to handle this appropriately. Bit don't be surprised by a lock here, since the mods don't allow discussion of petitions.
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Schwa88
Death By Association Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Schwa88 on 15/11/2010 04:35:14 Edited by: Schwa88 on 15/11/2010 04:33:57 At this point any response would be nice.
FA's recent sov gains, 4 to be exact, make the timing of the dropped dec rather convenient.
Edit for linky:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Fatal_Ascension/changes
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Requiescat
Trinity Corp WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:34:00 -
[7]
sounds like fatal ascension have some gm's msn address. obv conspiracy -+- i'ma show you some sh-- rookie, push that button
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Inevitability
Caldari Death By Association Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:56:00 -
[8]
A little more info for the jury (you, the viewers). We were initially contracted against Militaris Industries. They promptly ran and joined Fatal Ascension. As the screenshots clearly show, all war fees were paid and paid in a timely manner. The war mysteriously ends 4 days early, and I receive a GM Refund for the war in my personal wallet with no explanation, no evemail, no GM convo, nothing.
Screenshot of GM Refund: linkeh
Screenshot of Initial Wardec Payment: linkeh
Screenshot of Second Week Wardec Payment: linkeh
Copies of CONCORD mails corroborating our story: linkeh
So, in short, a GM steps in with no explanation, cancels our war, and this alliance we were keeping supressed subsequently moves 3-4 freighters of supplies out of Jita to their carrier jump systems, resulting in them taking sov in 4 new areas. Strange?
Discuss.
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Voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:08:00 -
[9]
Wow.
Something stinks. Petition and escalate to a Senior GM right away.
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 15/11/2010 05:13:55 CCP Arkanon
Director of Internal Affairs
CCP Morpheus
Internal Affairs Agent
Just incase you were not awhere make sure you EVE Mail these two. They are the Internal Affairs Devs at CCP.
One Question: Were you using any kind of new unheard of tactic that could be deamed a future exploit? I know it is unlikely do too the weird GM response but I thought I sould mention it.
First Test and now this...
Very disconcerting.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Voogru Wow.
Something stinks. Petition and escalate to a Senior GM right away.
its beyond smelly
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 15/11/2010 05:13:55 CCP Arkanon
Director of Internal Affairs
CCP Morpheus
Internal Affairs Agent
Just incase you were not awhere make sure you EVE Mail these two. They are the Internal Affairs Devs at CCP.
One Question: Were you using any kind of new unheard of tactic that could be deamed a future exploit? I know it is unlikely do too the weird GM response but I thought I sould mention it.
First Test and now this...
Very disconcerting.
This is actually a low intensity war-dec, people need to make ISK or something (like Inev's broke ass). By using anything deemed a future exploit.. sitting on 4-4 Undock with sensor boosted pirate cruisers, and insta-locking targets without impunity, otherwise no.
Its pretty disheartening really. Hopefully nothing will stop the spanish inquisition.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: NoNah on 15/11/2010 05:22:42 Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.
EDIT: Oh, and as for the system gains, my connection isn't what it should be right now so I can't really check all the links, but part of me don't see how a wardec would affect taking over systems in 0.0. Part of me suggests that if the wardec is dropped that'd be prime time to claim them. The retraction may just aswell have caused the gain, as the gains caused the retraction. Razors anyone? Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 407124
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: NoNah Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.
How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Originally by: NoNah Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.
How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?
Never said it was. I said you exploited the fact that there was an extended downtime to gain a noticable advantage. If you noticed what I posted I said this wasn't the best of solutions, but it's not as black and white as implied. Personally I would've prefered seeing your wardec delayed 24 hours, as that didn't happen I'd expect nothing to happen, but I can also see the other end of it. Not going to say it was right or wrong, just pointing the above details out as they're somewhat relevant. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 157513
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?
Same reason it meant no TCU's.
No matter what happens now it will probably be claimed for this reason(weither it was or not) and it will suddenly be a surprise hidden rule. It is utter bull**** if that is the case because you would have deserved a detailed mail explaining this with a link to a newly posted rule.
I hope you get justice or at least an answer, better then non explenation test got.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:33:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Aerion Va''rr on 15/11/2010 05:34:50
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Originally by: NoNah Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.
Just asking mate; Honestly I didn't fully understand what you said.
My basic understanding of war decs are, I get a message, I get flashies, I have fun. No exploits we're used, attempted, or even newb-attempted during this war.
How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?
Never said it was. I said you exploited the fact that there was an extended downtime to gain a noticable advantage. If you noticed what I posted I said this wasn't the best of solutions, but it's not as black and white as implied. Personally I would've prefered seeing your wardec delayed 24 hours, as that didn't happen I'd expect nothing to happen, but I can also see the other end of it. Not going to say it was right or wrong, just pointing the above details out as they're somewhat relevant.
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Rommell Drako
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:35:00 -
[18]
The war against Militaris Industries went live on 2010.11.03 01:08. Militaris joined Fatal Ascension on 2010.11.07 20:30.
We paid for the second week as linked in previous post.
War against Fatal Ascension was retracted on 2010.11.12 11:48. With the 24 hour cooldown ending on 2010.11.13.
So doing the math 3+14 should be the 17... The war should have ended including the cooldown on the 17th. not on the 13... 4 Days.
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Expert Troll
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:52:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Expert Troll on 15/11/2010 05:52:17
Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 15/11/2010 05:22:42 Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
It's not an exploit to war dec before an extended downtime though, it's been done before with great fanfare.
It's the ultimate dirty trick.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=540256
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.11.15 05:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Expert Troll Edited by: Expert Troll on 15/11/2010 05:52:17
Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 15/11/2010 05:22:42 Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
It's not an exploit to war dec before an extended downtime though, it's been done before with great fanfare.
It's the ultimate dirty trick.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=540256
Quite aware, but theres been alot of discussion lately about other things like the mentioned tcus.
Regarding your intetions thats largely irrelevant, expecially as no cirect penalty has been executed against you. The war has "only" been nullified. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 207943
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Celes Steele
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Posted - 2010.11.15 06:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Inevitability A little more info for the jury (you, the viewers). We were initially contracted against Militaris Industries. They promptly ran and joined Fatal Ascension. As the screenshots clearly show, all war fees were paid and paid in a timely manner. The war mysteriously ends 4 days early, and I receive a GM Refund for the war in my personal wallet with no explanation, no evemail, no GM convo, nothing.
Screenshot of GM Refund: linkeh
Screenshot of Initial Wardec Payment: linkeh
Screenshot of Second Week Wardec Payment: linkeh
Copies of CONCORD mails corroborating our story: linkeh
So, in short, a GM steps in with no explanation, cancels our war, and this alliance we were keeping supressed subsequently moves 3-4 freighters of supplies out of Jita to their carrier jump systems, resulting in them taking sov in 4 new areas. Strange?
Discuss.
Neo, this clearly is what Inevitability sounds like.
And CCP Morpheus is IA, thats just priceless.
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Rommell Drako
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Posted - 2010.11.15 06:26:00 -
[22]
The Matter of concern is that there has been no explaination as with other infractures against eve CCP laws. If this is against a rule, the rule should be stated and a punishment told.
There has been nothing except "Shh Bribe" isk payment.
This is obviously not a normal action taken by CCP or a GM.
IF there is a new rule being discussed, which trust me we did not even think about downtime. (ok client says kill them, ok, derp, button pushed), then a rule should be created with a valid punishment and explaination.
Not a shady reimbursment payment made to a personal account instead of the alliance that paid for the war dec...
Please help me understand. Please.
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frolicsome
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Posted - 2010.11.15 08:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Originally by: NoNah Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.
Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.
How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?
Never said it was. I said you exploited the fact that there was an extended downtime to gain a noticable advantage. If you noticed what I posted I said this wasn't the best of solutions, but it's not as black and white as implied. Personally I would've prefered seeing your wardec delayed 24 hours, as that didn't happen I'd expect nothing to happen, but I can also see the other end of it. Not going to say it was right or wrong, just pointing the above details out as they're somewhat relevant.
The extended downtime did not last the full 24h warmup period, it did not even last half of it. The TCU's were pulled down because they would have infact finished onlining before a response could be made. FA still had more than 12h of time to move those freighters before the war went live, despite the extended downtime (which lasted 1h longer than officially announced). Calling foul play.
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.15 08:59:00 -
[24]
Its more of the fact that they got the freighters out thats bothersome, we were paid to disrupt their Empire Operation; and the way this was handled, without even a single word from a GM just doesn't sit right with me, or anyone else in my alliance. While out of our hands, we were denied the ability to do what we were paid to do.
I'd say this is something that nobody in the Merc world would tolerate. Unfortunately theres very little we can do about it, except to keep petitioning.
Exploits and the like aren't really relevant since our mindset is more along the lines of 'were happy if we get to log in, and press F1'. We don't even have a neut RR army, we don't even use cloaky alts to watch pipes, if we find you and catch you... we're going to kill you. We're going to laugh a bit, and move on.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.11.15 12:58:00 -
[25]
Petition, escalate, and don't stop bothering them until you get a straight answer. I don't like how this smells. Not one bit.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.11.15 13:26:00 -
[26]
It smells like the stopped a common exploit because the right people complained.
But yes as always and explanation would be good. Most curious would if going forward will all war decs made immediately before extended down times be retracted?
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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admiral fovios
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.11.15 13:28:00 -
[27]
All petitioning and escalation aside, what's the solution here? An apology from CCP? Probably no point in restarting the war now. An if the GM responsible is involved with the alliance benefiting, while he might face disciplinary action none of us will ever here about it.
For that matter, this thread is going to get locked, as will any follow ups. So the forums at large will never hear the GM response.
Not to say this isn't disappointing and disheartening. It is. I just can't imagine an appropriate GM response other than "it will never happen again."
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.11.15 13:37:00 -
[28]
lolbtl
Please do not question GM wardec moderation.
Thanks. Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.15 13:43:00 -
[29]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 15/11/2010 13:43:45
Please contact me in-game and let me know what happens
If it turns out GMs are hand holding again .. I'll offer my services for free for a couple weeks on them
Thank-You,
The Pitboss
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Kiritsubo
Ritual Suicide
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Posted - 2010.11.15 13:55:00 -
[30]
Internal Affairs, the CCP whitewash division. Good luck.
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