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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.16 09:00:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Dracoknight Okay.... what CAN you do in empire then?
You can petition your friends in GM land to remove those pesky wardecs that complicate your nullsec logistics. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Donny Maurasi
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Posted - 2010.11.16 09:50:00 -
[152]
I always love how the null sec care bears always act as if they are some how more elite than the high sec care bears.
All the little high sec war decers should WD them just for the future comedy KM's.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.16 10:55:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Grimpak on 16/11/2010 10:55:22
Originally by: Moral Virologist
Originally by: Antonius Lee Edited by: Antonius Lee on 16/11/2010 00:12:21 CCP Morpheus and the GM team,
I think you are accorded the benefit of the doubt considering your position and employment; however, based on the information that I have read in this thread and the short and ambiguous responses of CCP Morpheus, I am forced to assume that there was an embarrassing error on the part of a GM that resulted in an unfair advantage being given to a group of players.
As I understand it, this unfairness was resolved by giving back to the advantaged players what they lost in the first place to valid game mechanics. The fact that the losses of the other party were also refunded is irrelevant, especially considering these losses were minuscule in comparison.
According to what I've learned from this thread, this situation was not only poorly handled to begin with, but the mishandling was then compounded by a frankly deceitful post from CCP Morpheus. Listed below are my concerns with what has transpired (as I have observed from this thread):
1. A CCP Employee failed to understand a basic and rather obvious game mechanic and penalized a group of players for his own failure. 2. The CCP IA team investigated the incident, including going over a "paper trail of emails, defects, and petitions" related to it. None of these documents have been referenced by CCP Morpheus in his responses in this thread. Neither have the names of the GMs responsible for this been mentioned. There is thus no evidence to support any of the claims made by CCP, though ample documentation has been provided by players to show that they followed legitimate mechanics to achieve their goals. 3. The reimbursement that the wronged players received was smaller than that of the players who were given an unfair advantage. In fact, the wronged players were further penalized by CCP in that their enemies (who they fought using legitimate means) were allowed to fulfill their goals.
The only recourse that will show a decent level of honesty and transparency from CCP would be a public apology (in this thread and in a dev blog) from the GM responsible and an explanation of how a similar situation will be avoided in the future and of the punishment that the guilty GM will receive. Such an apology would make me satisfied with the GM team. Anything less would be, according to what I've experienced in the game and in this thread, would leave the player base with a damaging distrust for the GMs and for CCP in general.
A big thank you to Aerion and Violent Intent for bringing this to everyone's attention.
TL;DR: /me is mad, want blood, grrrrr.
I fully agree with this post.
Whether the GM was acting maliciously or simply ignorantly, the situation was handled inapropriately.
indeed that seems what looks like.
did the GM acted on purpose or no? dunno. But Morpheus reply wasn't nearly enough to sane the wounds.
benefit of doubt tho, IA is not an organism that's supposed to deal directly with the public beyond saying "**** happened, procedures were done, issue solved." That's more like PR stuff.
...it wouldn't do any harm to IA release statements about certain issues thru PR representatives tho, and this seemed like the best way in this case. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.11.16 11:27:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr Theres a 3 Page response from the GMs in my inbox, theres actually evidence, important people have read it. Pretty sure if you actually thumb through the whole thread, we've openly shared information arguing our point.
Have you posted that correspondence to some other forum such as SHC?
Quote: Edit: They removed their offer to reimburse ships/losses. This at least makes me a little happier about the situation.
At least they're not trying to fix the mistake by making another mistake :)
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.16 12:29:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr Theres a 3 Page response from the GMs in my inbox, theres actually evidence, important people have read it. Pretty sure if you actually thumb through the whole thread, we've openly shared information arguing our point.
Have you posted that correspondence to some other forum such as SHC?
Quote: Edit: They removed their offer to reimburse ships/losses. This at least makes me a little happier about the situation.
At least they're not trying to fix the mistake by making another mistake :)
SHC?
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.11.16 12:47:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr SHC?
Scrapheap Challenge, I assume.
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Borgh Brainbasher
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.16 12:50:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Borgh Brainbasher on 16/11/2010 12:51:05
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
SHC?
If you don't know it, you prbably shoudn't go there without familiarizing yourself with the locals first. Scrapheap Challenge is a eve-related forum where you can post gm corespondence without ccp-hired mods banning you. But as I said, it has a very...peculiar atmosphere to it.
EDIT: too slow, but its the link the guy above me posted
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.16 13:15:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Borgh Brainbasher Edited by: Borgh Brainbasher on 16/11/2010 12:51:05
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
SHC?
If you don't know it, you prbably shoudn't go there without familiarizing yourself with the locals first. Scrapheap Challenge is a eve-related forum where you can post gm corespondence without ccp-hired mods banning you. But as I said, it has a very...peculiar atmosphere to it.
EDIT: too slow, but its the link the guy above me posted
Ahh. Well the contents of the discussion with the GMs has been discussed amongst some of the leaders of the Merc industry, I just don't find it appropriate for general public consumption. The GM's are trying to make good with the afflicted side of the ordeal (us) and havn't reimbursed FA or anything (so they say).
I've briefly been given the answer I kind of wanted, in the typical manner I expected it. It has been forwarded to the CSM Council though, and they can tear it apart at their leisure.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.11.16 13:41:00 -
[159]
CCP in clueless and corrupt shocker.
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Silver river
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Posted - 2010.11.16 13:46:00 -
[160]
This topic is already discussed on SHC: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=24745&start=1800
Go there and post your information. Players are already leaving EVE.com because of trolls / deleted information and general don't care attitude and spam infested topics. E.g. for war related information visit SHC or...
Other EVE related forum you can turn is kugu's PL infested forum ;), but the link to the actual forum would be immediately deleted from eve.com. So I leave it up to you where you want to put it forward. (The level of HTFU and Troll invasion is hard on Kugu, thread carefully.)
Bitter vet way of thinking is hard in all 3+ years old eve external forums. As a good advice: be aware, that all outsider forums are regularly monitored by CCP.
Version 1 (You play it nice) If you do feel you still have arguments to discuss with GM and/or with IA do not post it anywhere, until you are over all means. You jeopardize senior GMs goodwill if you do so. If GMs deem you are not worthy for the invested time, you will be dropped -> you rage -> nothing happens, but you played by the rules.
Version 2(You want to force CCP/the Darkside/earn some internetz points) Post it in all external forums and all dirty sh*t. This way has turned out to get your bugs fixed and CCP rage over you (a bit) as you force them to work on your issue instead of some fancy new subscription increasing feature. Examples: No local exploit, by Monkey or the Infini-tracking guns story in WH space.
Fly safe
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Captain Merkin
Minmatar Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2010.11.16 14:42:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Eto LabOne GM's should not be able to play this game outside of test.
I utterly cannot believe that CCP allows its employees to play this game like any normal player. Most free game servers that host games and GMS do not allow their GMS to play on the server to avoid favoritism.
We pay for this game, and to see latent favoritism on many different situations is getting out of hand.
Anyone that has anything to do with the making of this game should not be able to play as a normal character.
I would much rather GM's that do infact play eve and give a toss about it, even if the occasional "whoopsy" occurs along the way. Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
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MASTERLESS SLAVE
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Posted - 2010.11.16 15:38:00 -
[162]
IF THIS IS TRU HE SHOULD BE HANGED BY HIS BALLS.
THIS GAME IS TURNING INTO HELLO KITTY KAT AND LOSING ITS HARDCORENESS
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Captain Charismatic
Minmatar Honorless Internet Jerks
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Posted - 2010.11.16 16:03:00 -
[163]
Meh, smells like a simple gm mistake to me. Adapt. Crying about it cannot help, and every mistake, no matter what, will lead to fewer in the future. It's JUST a game. Raging (which is what 90% of this thread looks like to me, just makes my tearmometer jump a few notches. |
ajduB
Minmatar Militaris Industries Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.11.16 16:24:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Inevitability A little more info for the jury (you, the viewers). We were initially contracted against Militaris Industries. They promptly ran and joined Fatal Ascension. As the screenshots clearly show, all war fees were paid and paid in a timely manner. The war mysteriously ends 4 days early, and I receive a GM Refund for the war in my personal wallet with no explanation, no evemail, no GM convo, nothing.
Ok not that i care about your war dec, as you are no bother to me, but a slight correction. We ran no where. We where is the process of joining FA when you war dec'ed us, we just went along with our plans. As for my corp, we have no clue why the war was retracted. It had nothing to do with us and if i ever found out it was a member if my corp that petitioned ccp, he/she would be looking for a new corp. I prefer to let the person who hired you waste his isk as hes still mad from 3 years ago!
Originally by: Jim Lovell
Adjub im Shocked!
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.16 17:14:00 -
[165]
I love how everyone is jumping to conclusions about GM corruption and yet we do not know the full story. So far we have only gotton the story from one side.
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Gregor Vernof
Voodoo Tactical Ghost Syndicate.
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Posted - 2010.11.16 17:42:00 -
[166]
Ok, so here's the recap.
What is known:
1. Merc Corp A war dec'd Corp B, Corp B joined Alliance C, All war dec fees were paid, all warning timers heeded.
2. During the second week of the war dec, a GM canceled the war and refunded the last war fee with no explanation. Petitions ensued. Thread posted on C&P.
3. Denizens of C&P tin foil hat brigade yell conspiracy, jaded regulars cry GM idiocy, others troll.
4. CCP IA researched the issue from their perspective and found no corruption or favoritism. More petitions ensue demanding explanation. More C&P conspiracy yelling, more jaded banter, more trolling.
5. Petitions answered with "Ops, our bad, were sorry. Would you like us to replace everyone's ships involved during this war?" Request for ship replacement refused and rescinded. Merc Corp A still ****ed (rightly so). C&P madness continues, conspiracies still abound, the jaded shake their heads, several actually try to be rational (apparently they don't realize this is C&P), trolling get more pathetic.
6. CCP remains officially silent on the entire issue since IA's proclamation. The Tin Foil Hat Brigade runs off site to continue their conspiracy chatter. The jaded give up realizing this is now a dead horse as far as CCP is concerned. The trolls still think someone should care what they say. And the rational, yet deluded, pass the issue to the CSM, the jaded take notice again and chuckle.
That about sum it up?
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MASTERLESS SLAVE
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Posted - 2010.11.16 18:51:00 -
[167]
Ccp owes us the entire community explenation and apology and should let us know what they will do about this GM misconduct and when he will be fired because this is unacceptable behaviour and Ccp should have zero tolerance for such behaviours.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.16 19:12:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Gregor Vernof Ok, so here's the recap.
What is known:
1. Merc Corp A war dec'd Corp B, Corp B joined Alliance C, All war dec fees were paid, all warning timers heeded.
2. During the second week of the war dec, a GM canceled the war and refunded the last war fee with no explanation. Petitions ensued. Thread posted on C&P.
3. Denizens of C&P tin foil hat brigade yell conspiracy, jaded regulars cry GM idiocy, others troll.
4. CCP IA researched the issue from their perspective and found no corruption or favoritism. More petitions ensue demanding explanation. More C&P conspiracy yelling, more jaded banter, more trolling.
5. Petitions answered with "Ops, our bad, were sorry. Would you like us to replace everyone's ships involved during this war?" Request for ship replacement refused and rescinded. Merc Corp A still ****ed (rightly so). C&P madness continues, conspiracies still abound, the jaded shake their heads, several actually try to be rational (apparently they don't realize this is C&P), trolling get more pathetic.
6. CCP remains officially silent on the entire issue since IA's proclamation. The Tin Foil Hat Brigade runs off site to continue their conspiracy chatter. The jaded give up realizing this is now a dead horse as far as CCP is concerned. The trolls still think someone should care what they say. And the rational, yet deluded, pass the issue to the CSM, the jaded take notice again and chuckle.
That about sum it up?
I, as a jaded troll, concur with this post.
I shall now stamp it with a /signed, even if I still say that PR should've done any sort of damage control.
I shall now proceed to troll new stupid threads and shake my at the young'uns pathetic trollin'. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
yopparai
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Posted - 2010.11.16 19:47:00 -
[169]
As an ex-FA- member I can vouch that these guys would totally try to pull off something so lame. Also I've flown with Zagdul & my guess would be he put in the petition.
Finally I love how they say pew pew allways welcome; when they really mean is you're welcome to try and fight us but we will just pos up while you blow up our ratting carriers.
inb4 you mad, & yes I'm mad I wasted 6 months flying with these losers. O and shame on you CCP.
Yopp
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Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.11.16 20:23:00 -
[170]
Originally by: yopparai As an ex-FA- member I can vouch that these guys would totally try to pull off something so lame. Also I've flown with Zagdul & my guess would be he put in the petition.
Finally I love how they say pew pew allways welcome; when they really mean is you're welcome to try and fight us but we will just pos up while you blow up our ratting carriers.
inb4 you mad, & yes I'm mad I wasted 6 months flying with these losers. O and shame on you CCP.
Yopp
I seriously wish you all were still around.
It's like night and day in comparison.
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Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.11.16 21:05:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Mynxee on 16/11/2010 21:06:10 Several players have brought this matter to my and other CSM members' attention.
Just letting you all know that CCP is discussing the matter with CSM in our internal forums. I'm at work and confined to access here by iPhone so catching up on this thread and responding at length won't be possible til later. However, CCP has indicated to CSM that there will be a response here (hopefully today). If you can all be patient a little longer, I believe you will get the answers you are seeking and the matter will be clarified/sorted.
Life In Low Sec |
Inevitability
Caldari Death By Association Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.16 21:09:00 -
[172]
Mynxee,
Thanks for your dedication and prompt reply. At this point, we're basically asking for CCP to write a devblog and let the community know how this GM failed and let us all down. With that, we're asking for a public, and private apology and an explanation of how they plan to rectify this situation and ensure it doesn't happen again. We want to see good come out of this and appreciate the CSM answering our call for assistance.
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.11.16 21:40:00 -
[173]
Originally by: ajduB I too would hope to see an answer to the "why it was ended" question. If it was a bad error by a gm then fix irt and go on.
Obviously someone petitioned.
Quote: We also have no gm's in my corp to friends that are gm's....If a petition on my part could help better solve this **** up please feel free to pm in game! I'll get my GM buddies on it immediately!
Fixed that for you.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.11.16 22:16:00 -
[174]
I would venture a guess that implementing anything with a timer to coincide with extended downtime hasn't ever been an intended mechanic, and they're just now getting around to trying to stop it to some degree...just like ghost training/datacores was never an intended mechanic, it's just taken a really long time for CCP to get around to addressing it.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.16 23:20:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Mynxee Edited by: Mynxee on 16/11/2010 21:06:10 Several players have brought this matter to my and other CSM members' attention.
Just letting you all know that CCP is discussing the matter with CSM in our internal forums. I'm at work and confined to access here by iPhone so catching up on this thread and responding at length won't be possible til later. However, CCP has indicated to CSM that there will be a response here (hopefully today). If you can all be patient a little longer, I believe you will get the answers you are seeking and the matter will be clarified/sorted.
Horatio: CCP waxes desperate with excuses.
Marcellus: Let's investigate. 'Tis not fit thus to obey them.
Horatio: Have after. To what issue will this come?
Marcellus: Something is rotten in the state of New Eden.
Horatio: Mynxee will direct it.
Marcellus: Nay, let's still be wary. [Exeunt.]
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Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
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Posted - 2010.11.16 23:33:00 -
[176]
"excellent is what we strive to be if you're going to follow us to the top, harden the **** up"
Now the true meaning of this phrase shows its true meaning. That "top" is sinking lower and lower it seems, eh CCP? Kinda hard to reach the top when your own employees don't understand the simplest of game mechanics. Or did they? hmmmmmm
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.17 00:08:00 -
[177]
(Reserved- Pending GM Response)
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2010.11.17 01:16:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 17/11/2010 01:25:13
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr So- the long and short of our GM Response was... apparently a GM didn't understand that a corporation that we're at war with, joins an alliance, thus making the alliance a wartarget. Without a 24 hour cooldown.
So- now, they are going to refund everything lost on both sides, so we get 4 random ships back, and they get all 45 of theirs back...Linkage.
We got an apology.....
Eh wat?
So your wardec gets messed up and yet they get 45 ships back for free??
And that's supposed to make this up for you??
edit: Ok so now CCP Morpheus is saying that this was "warranted"??
You're kidding me right? How is erroneously ending a wardec because a GM supposedly did not understand basic wardec mechanics ... "warranted"??
Not to interject past games into anything but I ran into this quite a lot back in my Ultima Online days. Frankly there is no excuse for this behavior on the part of the GM and is a clear indication of unfitness for employment whether or not it's for friends or corpies on an alt.
Maybe what is really needed is to find out who actually owns CCP and contact them directly. In my experience not everyone who owns a corporation is involved enough in day to day affairs to keep on top of stuff like this.
Seriously. "warranted"??
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society Violent Intent
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Posted - 2010.11.17 01:52:00 -
[179]
They didn't have anything reimbursed, and CCP Morpheus, isn't the GM currently handling the Petition. I won't comment any further on the GM interactions with this incident, I would encourage you to read the thread (or at least Inevitability and I's responses for a full range as to how this has been handled. The CSM has been contacted, as well as IA and several senior GM's and we're currently waiting for them to address the issue here (as they said they would).
I will comment however, that despite all their efforts to deny they petitioned, -FA- has in fact petitioned the war because apparently they didn't understand that accepting a corp with active WarDecs will convert that dec against their entire alliance after said corps 24 hour warm up expires and they actually enter the alliance. This issue actually has NOTHING to do with the extended downtime from what I understand, and more to do with the oversight to 'hazy' war dec mechanics. I realize that alot of whats been said by Inev and Myself might be under scrutiny, but its in response to GM Correspondence not shared on these forums or any other for public consumption (since we don't feel its necessary, nor do I want a EvE-O Ban).
I would kindly ask, that any further discussion of this incident, that hasn't read it in its entirety be kept to a minimum pending the response from the Dev Team/GMs. Hopefully this type of incident won't happen again.
Cheers C&P, and thanks for all your support.
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Rheige Bladewhisper
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Posted - 2010.11.17 02:03:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr I will comment however, that despite all their efforts to deny they petitioned, -FA- has in fact petitioned the war because apparently they didn't understand that accepting a corp with active WarDecs will convert that dec against their entire alliance after said corps 24 hour warm up expires and they actually enter the alliance.
Quite frankly, if they had their heads up their butts and it somehow IS the truth, the end result is even more ridiculous. Do we get to start petitioning when someone ninjas us while mining? Do I get to petition for a new hauler because, gosh, I didn't realize lowsec would be dangerous for it?
If they truly didn't understand the mechanics, then it was EVE's own form of Darwinism in action.
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