Originally by: Paul Clavet

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My advise is to get screenshots of the wallet transactions and in-game notifications. Post them here (for cred, word) and at another non-CCP forum, since things like this tend to fall down the memory hole...

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Originally by: Voogru

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Wow.

Something stinks. Petition and escalate to a Senior GM right away.

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Originally by: Alara IonStorm

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Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 15/11/2010 05:13:55
CCP Arkanon

Director of Internal Affairs

CCP Morpheus

Internal Affairs Agent

Just incase you were not awhere make sure you EVE Mail these two. They are the Internal Affairs Devs at CCP.

One Question: Were you using any kind of new unheard of tactic that could be deamed a future exploit? I know it is unlikely do too the weird GM response but I thought I sould mention it.

First Test and now this...

Very disconcerting.

---

Originally by: NoNah

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Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.

Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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Originally by: NoNah

---

Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.

Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.

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How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?

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Originally by: NoNah

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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Originally by: NoNah

---

Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.

Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.

---

Just asking mate; Honestly I didn't fully understand what you said.

My basic understanding of war decs are, I get a message, I get flashies, I have fun. No exploits we're used, attempted, or even newb-attempted during this war.



How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?

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Never said it was. I said you exploited the fact that there was an extended downtime to gain a noticable advantage. If you noticed what I posted I said this wasn't the best of solutions, but it's not as black and white as implied. Personally I would've prefered seeing your wardec delayed 24 hours, as that didn't happen I'd expect nothing to happen, but I can also see the other end of it. Not going to say it was right or wrong, just pointing the above details out as they're somewhat relevant.

Originally by: NoNah

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Edited by: NoNah on 15/11/2010 05:22:42
Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.

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Originally by: Expert Troll

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Edited by: Expert Troll on 15/11/2010 05:52:17

Originally by: NoNah

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Edited by: NoNah on 15/11/2010 05:22:42
Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.

---

It's not an exploit to war dec before an extended downtime though, it's been done before with great fanfare.

It's the ultimate dirty trick.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=540256

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Originally by: Inevitability

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A little more info for the jury (you, the viewers). We were initially contracted against Militaris Industries. They promptly ran and joined Fatal Ascension. As the screenshots clearly show, all war fees were paid and paid in a timely manner. The war mysteriously ends 4 days early, and I receive a GM Refund for the war in my personal wallet with no explanation, no evemail, no GM convo, nothing.

Screenshot of GM Refund: linkeh

Screenshot of Initial Wardec Payment: linkeh

Screenshot of Second Week Wardec Payment: linkeh

Copies of CONCORD mails corroborating our story: linkeh

So, in short, a GM steps in with no explanation, cancels our war, and this alliance we were keeping supressed subsequently moves 3-4 freighters of supplies out of Jita to their carrier jump systems, resulting in them taking sov in 4 new areas. Strange?

Discuss.

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Originally by: NoNah

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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Originally by: NoNah

---

Looks like the wardec preperation time was circumvented by the extended downtime. Which I guess was "forgotten" in the op and following posts. That said, I'm not sure I'd just cancel the war 11 days later. Things would've been so much easier if all timers but skilltraining(or maybe even that) was paused during downtimes - what should've happened is Fatal got their 24 hour warning right after downtime and had their prep time.

Might not be the best solution, but hey atleast there's a case.

---

How does the 24 hour warmup (during downtime or not) and 5 days of fighting = ended dec?

---

Never said it was. I said you exploited the fact that there was an extended downtime to gain a noticable advantage. If you noticed what I posted I said this wasn't the best of solutions, but it's not as black and white as implied. Personally I would've prefered seeing your wardec delayed 24 hours, as that didn't happen I'd expect nothing to happen, but I can also see the other end of it. Not going to say it was right or wrong, just pointing the above details out as they're somewhat relevant.

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Originally by: The PitBoss

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Edited by: The PitBoss on 15/11/2010 13:43:45

Please contact me in-game and let me know what happens

If it turns out GMs are hand holding again .. I'll offer my services for free for a couple weeks on them

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Originally by: seany1212

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This reeks of fishiness, CCP removed the TCUs because sovereignity was being intentionally taken without having to worry about anyone being able to stop it due to the extended downtime, war decs however in my opinion are completely different, going through without being able to be interferred with. The only thing that -FA- missed out on due to it was being able to move assets around eve to there advantage. I hope this GM business is cleared up instead of being swept under the covers

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Originally by: The PitBoss

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Edited by: The PitBoss on 15/11/2010 13:43:45

Please contact me in-game and let me know what happens

If it turns out GMs are hand holding again .. I'll offer my services for free for a couple weeks on them

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Originally by: Ghoest

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Originally by: seany1212

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This reeks of fishiness, CCP removed the TCUs because sovereignity was being intentionally taken without having to worry about anyone being able to stop it due to the extended downtime, war decs however in my opinion are completely different, going through without being able to be interferred with. The only thing that -FA- missed out on due to it was being able to move assets around eve to there advantage. I hope this GM business is cleared up instead of being swept under the covers

---

Well your right that anything unexplained is fishy - you are wrong otherwise.

Its is analogous to exploiting downtime to establish sovereignty. Both are PVP situations where downtime is being used to limit the normal responses an opponent would be allowed to use.

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Originally by: Aeir Myiez

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I can tell you why. 1 member of MI is suspected as being a CCP Dev. Even their own corpies suspect this.

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Originally by: Lubomir Penev

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Originally by: Aeir Myiez

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I can tell you why. 1 member of MI is suspected as being a CCP Dev. Even their own corpies suspect this.

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Who is MI and how are they related to this story?

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Originally by: Aeir Myiez

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I can tell you why. 1 member of MI is suspected as being a CCP Dev. Even their own corpies suspect this.

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Originally by: Omara Otawan

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Originally by: Aeir Myiez

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I can tell you why. 1 member of MI is suspected as being a CCP Dev. Even their own corpies suspect this.

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I kinda doubt that if that was true, he would be *that* stupid. After all the noise from the past and stuff...

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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(and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).

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Originally by: Lubomir Penev

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Originally by: Aeir Myiez

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I can tell you why. 1 member of MI is suspected as being a CCP Dev. Even their own corpies suspect this.

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Who is MI and how are they related to this story?

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Originally by: Alara IonStorm

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Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 15/11/2010 05:13:55
CCP Arkanon

Director of Internal Affairs

CCP Morpheus

Internal Affairs Agent

Just incase you were not awhere make sure you EVE Mail these two. They are the Internal Affairs Devs at CCP.

One Question: Were you using any kind of new unheard of tactic that could be deamed a future exploit? I know it is unlikely do too the weird GM response but I thought I sould mention it.

First Test and now this...

Very disconcerting.

---

Originally by: Vaal Erit

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Care to comment on the whole war decs before extended downtime thing CCP Morpheus?

Oh man this sounds really, really juicy now. I must know all the drama, when I get home from work I better see a nice thread on shc.

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Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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I can't go into more detail on a public forum, but the affected parties will have their concerns addressed

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Originally by: thelung187

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Yes, because heaven forbid anyone with blue/red next to their name provide situational clarity to the community at large. I can't *wait* to read the applied rationale here

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Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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Hi, I'm CCP Morpheus, Internal Affairs Specialist at CCP.
There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.

---

Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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Hi, I'm CCP Morpheus, Internal Affairs Specialist at CCP.

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.

---

Originally by: Pennwisedom

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Originally by: thelung187

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Yes, because heaven forbid anyone with blue/red next to their name provide situational clarity to the community at large. I can't *wait* to read the applied rationale here

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I am sure it is a CRAZY CONSPIRACY OH MY GOD!!!!!!!

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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Care to comment on the whole war decs before extended downtime thing CCP Morpheus?

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Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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The Internal Affairs department deals mainly with issues regarding CCP staff and their in-game conduct, I'm the wrong person to comment on that matter.

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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So- the long and short of our GM Response was... apparently a GM didn't understand that a corporation that we're at war with, joins an alliance, thus making the alliance a wartarget. Without a 24 hour cooldown.

So- now, they are going to refund everything lost on both sides, so we get 4 random ships back, and they get all 45 of theirs back...Linkage.

We got an apology.....

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

So- the long and short of our GM Response was... apparently a GM didn't understand that a corporation that we're at war with, joins an alliance, thus making the alliance a wartarget. Without a 24 hour cooldown.

So- now, they are going to refund everything lost on both sides, so we get 4 random ships back, and they get all 45 of theirs back...Linkage.

We got an apology.....

---

Quote:

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The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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So- the long and short of our GM Response was... apparently a GM didn't understand that a corporation that we're at war with, joins an alliance, thus making the alliance a wartarget. Without a 24 hour cooldown.

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.

Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

Originally by: Jack Dant

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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So- the long and short of our GM Response was... apparently a GM didn't understand that a corporation that we're at war with, joins an alliance, thus making the alliance a wartarget. Without a 24 hour cooldown.

---

That's absurd. The mechanics of joining an alliance with an active war are well known, and have been often been used by the targets to trap the wardeccers. I myself have seen this happen many, many times over the last two years.

Joining an alliance has a 24 hour delay anyway, during which the alliance leadership knows a war is incoming and can warn their members.

But even if this really merited GM action, what is the sense in cancelling the war after the 24 hour warning period has passed. Or reinbursing losses after that time? It only creates an easy way out for decced corps: join an alliance, petition, and get the war cancelled.

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Quote:

---

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.

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Originally by: souhyeahright

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Quote:

---

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.

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Would really love to see what that paper trail looks like.

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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We got an apology.....

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Originally by: souhyeahright

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Quote:

---

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.

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Would really love to see what that paper trail looks like.

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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Originally by: souhyeahright

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Quote:

---

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.

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Would really love to see what that paper trail looks like.

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I would as well...

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Originally by: Schwa88

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Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

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Originally by: souhyeahright

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Would really love to see what that paper trail looks like.

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I would as well...

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And I.

WE DEMAND JUSTICE!

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.

Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

Originally by: Inevitability

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I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

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Originally by: Inevitability

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I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

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Originally by: knickersoffalot

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Originally by: Inevitability

---

I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

---

You sir have hit the nail clean on the head!

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Originally by: Inevitability

---

I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Inevitability

---

I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

---

Of course the GM involved knew. He knew he was helping his buddies.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

Originally by: Roosterton

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Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Inevitability

---

I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

---

Of course the GM involved knew. He knew he was helping his buddies.

---

I TOO AM A CONSPIRACY THEORIST!

Seriously, though, this seems like an ordinary mistake to me. Sure, the GM should apologize and be scolded by his fellow employees, yada yada, but seriously? Accusations like that with no evidence?

---

Originally by: Roosterton

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Inevitability

---

I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

---

They are called game "MASTERS" ie: they are supposed to have a vague understanding of game mechanics, or is it just me that see's them in this light?

Of course the GM involved knew. He knew he was helping his buddies.

---

I TOO AM A CONSPIRACY THEORIST!

Seriously, though, this seems like an ordinary mistake to me. Sure, the GM should apologize and be scolded by his fellow employees, yada yada, but seriously? Accusations like that with no evidence?

---

Quote:

---

Game Master
 
ûnoun
the person who controls a role-playing game.

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Originally by: Roosterton

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Inevitability

---

I not only want to see a paper trail. I want a dev blog explaining this to the ENTIRE community. This error is absolutely unacceptable. Morpheus, Internal Affairs needs to do more than just let this slide by as a mistake. Look at the facts.

Fatal Ascension KNEW they were getting into a war with a 24-hour stasis before Militaris Industries was active in their alliance their alliance. I'm sure they knew about this war DAYS before MI even applied to join the alliance. They knew this was coming! Don't play this off! This GM doesn't need to be a GM any longer if he doesn't understand this simple game mechanic.

---

Of course the GM involved knew. He knew he was helping his buddies.

---

I TOO AM A CONSPIRACY THEORIST!

Seriously, though, this seems like an ordinary mistake to me. Sure, the GM should apologize and be scolded by his fellow employees, yada yada, but seriously? Accusations like that with no evidence?

---

Originally by: Roosterton

---

I TOO AM A CONSPIRACY THEORIST!

Seriously, though, this seems like an ordinary mistake to me. Sure, the GM should apologize and be scolded by his fellow employees, yada yada, but seriously? Accusations like that with no evidence?

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Originally by: Bobkate Dobbs

---

WTF?

Id like to see some more info before I completely jump to the conclusion that this is utter BS, but my god.. it walks like a pile of steaming BS, talks like a pile of steaming BS, and certainly stinks like one.

Im sorry but actions like this completly destroy credibility of this game, and everything that makes it fun. Really sad... and really dissapointing.

Only one thing to say really.... VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS!!

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Bobkate Dobbs

---

WTF?

Id like to see some more info before I completely jump to the conclusion that this is utter BS, but my god.. it walks like a pile of steaming BS, talks like a pile of steaming BS, and certainly stinks like one.

Im sorry but actions like this completly destroy credibility of this game, and everything that makes it fun. Really sad... and really dissapointing.

Only one thing to say really.... VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS!!

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A better solution is to wipe out the corporation that the GM is involved with.

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Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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"vague and unsubstantiated assurances"

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Bobkate Dobbs

---

WTF?

Id like to see some more info before I completely jump to the conclusion that this is utter BS, but my god.. it walks like a pile of steaming BS, talks like a pile of steaming BS, and certainly stinks like one.

Im sorry but actions like this completly destroy credibility of this game, and everything that makes it fun. Really sad... and really dissapointing.

Only one thing to say really.... VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS!!

---

A better solution is to wipe out the corporation that the GM is involved with.

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Originally by: CCP Morpheus

---

Hi, I'm CCP Morpheus, Internal Affairs Specialist at CCP.

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.
I can't go into more detail on a public forum, but the affected parties will have their concerns addressed via petitions. A Senior GM will be replying to your CEO's petition as soon as possible.

Internal Affairs is reachable by email at "[email protected]".

Best regards,
CCP Morpheus

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Originally by: Keeves

---

Edited by: Keeves on 16/11/2010 00:01:56

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

FA is an alliance full of morons, it won't be an issue.

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Originally by: Rommell Drako

---

Edited by: Rommell Drako on 16/11/2010 00:09:35

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Guess what. Our little high sec war dec is obviously a thorn in your side if you hade to petition it to a GM as "evidence provided" claims.

The arguement is not about just you anymore. It is about the suggeted and undefended claims of GM abuse of power that was used for your gain.

If FA is not insulted by the fact that a GM helped them or is capable of this then it just proves that you were in on it.

This is an assualt on all of EVE players not just Violent Intent or mercs.

And there ladies and gentlmen is the final piece of evidence proving htat FA has a GM on its payroll. (maybe not even just one as we have seen GMs covering for other GMs.)

Will someone please defend this? Please prove me wrong. There is nothing that would make me happier then to wrong now.

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Originally by: Lubomir Penev

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So all you need to do if you lose a war is to find an intellectually challenged GM for everything to be wiped out?

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

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Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

That would sound MUCH more impressive if you were not hiding behind your GM's skirts when you said it. In any case, what impact can anyone have when the GM's will simply reverse your losses.

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Originally by: Rommell Drako

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If FA is not insulted by the fact that a GM helped them or is capable of this then it just proves that you were in on it.

---

Originally by: Evelgrivion

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Edited by: Evelgrivion on 16/11/2010 00:22:14

Originally by: Rommell Drako

---

If FA is not insulted by the fact that a GM helped them or is capable of this then it just proves that you were in on it.

---

This statement asserts that because Fatal Ascension has not yet been demonstrably offended over this issue, they must be co-conspirators.

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Originally by: OT Smithers

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

That would sound MUCH more impressive if you were not hiding behind your GM's skirts when you said it. In any case, what impact can anyone have when the GM's will simply reverse your losses.

---

^ This. Nothings funnier then NC Pets acting hardcore. You we're given space when Ev0ke left. You have a huge history or being pets.. for just about anyone that would take you. If you want to impress someone go out and do it on your own, then talk ****, in the meantime you have the same significance as a Jita Spammer.

---

Originally by: Lubomir Penev

---

Originally by: Evelgrivion

---

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 16/11/2010 00:22:14

Originally by: Rommell Drako

---

If FA is not insulted by the fact that a GM helped them or is capable of this then it just proves that you were in on it.

---

This statement asserts that because Fatal Ascension has not yet been demonstrably offended over this issue, they must be co-conspirators.

---

Actually for a GM to make a mess of the situation someone had to petition, who else but fatal Ascension?

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Originally by: Eto LabOne

---

GM's should not be able to play this game outside of test.

I utterly cannot believe that CCP allows its employees to play this game like any normal player. Most free game servers that host games and GMS do not allow their GMS to play on the server to avoid favoritism.

We pay for this game, and to see latent favoritism on many different situations is getting out of hand.

Anyone that has anything to do with the making of this game should not be able to play as a normal character.

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

Originally by: Raz Lictor

---

The best thing about this thread is the concept that highsec wardecs affect the operations of nullsec alliances beyond killing off morons who are too stupid to have and/or use neutral haulers.

It's nice that Violent Intent thinks camping trade hubs is such an inconvenience as to somehow interfere with taking sovereignty. I'm sure that makes them feel important.

Come into nullsec and "punish" us if you actually want to have some sort of impact.

---

Quoting this for truth and justice.

I noticed the war dec dropped and didn't know why. Then saw this thread linked in GD.

OP, you honestly think that you are the first alliance to dec us and that we've not adjusted our logistics to support people who are dumb enough to think this has an impact on us?

Feel free to war dec us again. It helps weed out the dummies in empire who shouldn't be there anyway.

As Raz stated, you won't see our "fighters" in empire so dec'ing us doesn't effect our normal operations. Feel free to join us in Cloud Ring for a fight if you'd like one. We're always looking for some pew pew.

Here's a hand on where we reside: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Fatal_Ascension

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

Stuff.. 0.0... this is Dotlan *sigh*... stuff

---

Originally by: Eto LabOne

---

GM's should not be able to play this game outside of test.

I utterly cannot believe that CCP allows its employees to play this game like any normal player. Most free game servers that host games and GMS do not allow their GMS to play on the server to avoid favoritism.

We pay for this game, and to see latent favoritism on many different situations is getting out of hand.

Anyone that has anything to do with the making of this game should not be able to play as a normal character.

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

Originally by: Rustpunk

---

For those criticizing CCP Morpheus: the job of IA isn't to arbitrate the actual GM decisions. Rather, they verify that no corruption was involved (e.g. the GM having ties to the parties which he's "judging", etc.) The specifics of whether the decision adheres to CCP GM policies, IG rules, etc. gets left to the senior GMs and their management.

So an honest GM mistake isn't IA's problem, hence the phrasing of Morpheus's post.

---

Originally by: Rustpunk

---

For those criticizing CCP Morpheus: the job of IA isn't to arbitrate the actual GM decisions. Rather, they verify that no corruption was involved (e.g. the GM having ties to the parties which he's "judging", etc.) The specifics of whether the decision adheres to CCP GM policies, IG rules, etc. gets left to the senior GMs and their management.

So an honest GM mistake isn't IA's problem, hence the phrasing of Morpheus's post.

---

Originally by: Evelgrivion

---

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 16/11/2010 01:12:16
Four Edits later...

Originally by: Lubomir Penev

---

Originally by: Evelgrivion

---

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 16/11/2010 00:22:14

Originally by: Rommell Drako

---

If FA is not insulted by the fact that a GM helped them or is capable of this then it just proves that you were in on it.

---

This statement asserts that because Fatal Ascension has not yet been demonstrably offended over this issue, they must be co-conspirators.

---

Actually for a GM to make a mess of the situation someone had to petition, who else but fatal Ascension?

---

Someone within Fatal Ascension petitioned about it. This doesn't mean the alliance's leadership is involved with some sort of conspiracy, but it doesn't preclude the possibility either.

If this thread is any indication, there needs to be public correspondence about what decisions the Game Masters make and why they have made them. As with the TCU case, decisions that are made and actions that are taken without past precedent and without public statements to accompany them have resulted in controversy. I doubt this trend will cease without a change in Game Master correspondence policies. This is the real problem which needs to be addressed, and it is one that has been plaguing the game for years.

Since the job of a Game Master is to act on infractions of the game's rules, a Game Master must first decide if an infraction has in fact taken place before acting to remedy these infringements. However, these decisions, the reasoning behind them, and the subsequent actions are not logged publicly, even though they have very public consequences.

Game Master decisions, rationality and resulting actions that have public repercussions should be made available to the public. Dozens of controversies over the game's lifetime could have been averted by making these types of public issues open for all to see. Today, Eve Online's rules are presented by a non-comprehensive End User License Agreement and a Game Master Correspondence system which is automatically placed under a loosely enforced gag order. It's clear that a new system is needed.

---

Originally by: podlol

---

RANT RANT RANT.

---

Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff

---

Originally by: podlol

---

RANT RANT RANT.

---

Little known fact: Posting in all caps gets your point across more clearly and makes people take you seriously.

While I agree that there is something weird going on here, and that CCP really should make some sort of public statement, your way of going about this is more than irritating. TBH you are more likely to alienate yourself and your viewpoint if you continue with your tinfoil hat ranting, incessant cross-posting, and general douchery.

---

Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff

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Originally by: podlol

---

RANT RANT RANT.

---

Little known fact: Posting in all caps gets your point across more clearly and makes people take you seriously.

While I agree that there is something weird going on here, and that CCP really should make some sort of public statement, your way of going about this is more than irritating. TBH you are more likely to alienate yourself and your viewpoint if you continue with your tinfoil hat ranting, incessant cross-posting, and general douchery.

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

Stuff.. 0.0... this is Dotlan *sigh*... stuff

---

Thanks for the stereotypical "we're in 0.0" response, we know that this war may have minimal impact on you, we know that several freighters made dozens of trips out of Jita the minute the dec dropped, we know, that killing all your morons in Empire is effectively just helping you weed them out anyway.

What you keep overlooking..WE WERE PAID TO KILL YOUR IDIOTS. We are enjoying it, I'm glad the GM's decided against reimbursing them at our request (we wern't very happy about all that when it was first mentioned). So I'm sure denying you trade hub access in Empire for however long we feel like doing it won't bother you at all.

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

Stuff.. 0.0... this is Dotlan *sigh*... stuff

---

Thanks for the stereotypical "we're in 0.0" response, we know that this war may have minimal impact on you, we know that several freighters made dozens of trips out of Jita the minute the dec dropped, we know, that killing all your morons in Empire is effectively just helping you weed them out anyway.

What you keep overlooking..WE WERE PAID TO KILL YOUR IDIOTS. We are enjoying it, I'm glad the GM's decided against reimbursing them at our request (we wern't very happy about all that when it was first mentioned). So I'm sure denying you trade hub access in Empire for however long we feel like doing it won't bother you at all.

---

hey bud...

Why the claims of our gains in 0.0 then? What exactly were you trying to imply?

Just sayin'.

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

Why the claims of our gains in 0.0 then? What exactly were you trying to imply?

Just sayin'.

---

Originally by: Roosterton

---

Edited by: Roosterton on 16/11/2010 02:15:43
Did anyone actually read my post? Yes, it's a **** up. The GMs forgot the rules, etc. But waving your finger around making accusations that they are cheating and corrupt, without evidence, is extremely childish.

To the person who said GMs don't just end wars without consulting others, how do you know? Have you worked for CCP? Do you have any idea how they operate? Maybe the company trusts its employees to work independently? I have no idea either, but having no idea isn't an excuse for having no evidence.

---

Originally by: Dracoknight

---

p.s
Also the "big mighty alliance" that smacktalks: you might be big in zero-zero, but Empire hold a whole different setting which make your regular zero-zero fleet null and void.

---

Originally by: The PitBoss

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Error or not .. This will be dealt with

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

while the rest of us fight off IT Alliance.

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Originally by: Zagdul

---

Are you guys like RP'ing mercs or something?

---

Originally by: Schwa88

---

I had to lol at that one too, FA big in 0.0? That's hilarious. They're nobodies, merely thorns in IT's side.

---

Originally by: CCP Morpheus

---

Hi, I'm CCP Morpheus, Internal Affairs Specialist at CCP.

I have looked into this matter and found that these GM actions were warranted. There is a paper trail of emails, defects and petitions directly related to this case.
I can't go into more detail on a public forum, but the affected parties will have their concerns addressed via petitions. A Senior GM will be replying to your CEO's petition as soon as possible.

Internal Affairs is reachable by email at "[email protected]".

Best regards,
CCP Morpheus

---

Originally by: Hegbard

---

You actually believe that people in 0.0 care enough about your war decs to ask GMs to do something. How cute.

---

Originally by: Hegbard

---

You actually believe that people in 0.0 care enough about your war decs to ask GMs to do something. How cute.

---

Originally by: Hegbard

---

You actually believe that people in 0.0 care enough about your war decs to ask GMs to do something. How cute.

---

Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper

---

Originally by: Hegbard

---

You actually believe that people in 0.0 care enough about your war decs to ask GMs to do something. How cute.

---

Well seeing as how the entire reason this conversation is being had is because someone petitioned a GM...

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Originally by: Zagdul

---

Edited by: Zagdul on 16/11/2010 05:11:19

Originally by: Dracoknight

---

p.s
Also the "big mighty alliance" that smacktalks: you might be big in zero-zero, but Empire hold a whole different setting which make your regular zero-zero fleet null and void.

---

HAHAHA

I had a full mouth of coffee when reading this.

brb with some towels to clean off my monitor.

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Originally by: Zagdul

---

while the rest of us fight off IT Alliance.

---

For the record- we're currently shooting them too. Shame they actually think before they undock, and have a plan. IT has more cap pilots then your alliance has members.

Do you have anything meaningful to say? Or are you going to force us to listen to your drivel longer?

---

Originally by: Antonius Lee

---

Edited by: Antonius Lee on 16/11/2010 00:12:21
CCP Morpheus and the GM team,

I think you are accorded the benefit of the doubt considering your position and employment; however, based on the information that I have read in this thread and the short and ambiguous responses of CCP Morpheus, I am forced to assume that there was an embarrassing error on the part of a GM that resulted in an unfair advantage being given to a group of players.

As I understand it, this unfairness was resolved by giving back to the advantaged players what they lost in the first place to valid game mechanics. The fact that the losses of the other party were also refunded is irrelevant, especially considering these losses were minuscule in comparison.

According to what I've learned from this thread, this situation was not only poorly handled to begin with, but the mishandling was then compounded by a frankly deceitful post from CCP Morpheus. Listed below are my concerns with what has transpired (as I have observed from this thread):

1. A CCP Employee failed to understand a basic and rather obvious game mechanic and penalized a group of players for his own failure.
2. The CCP IA team investigated the incident, including going over a "paper trail of emails, defects, and petitions" related to it. None of these documents have been referenced by CCP Morpheus in his responses in this thread. Neither have the names of the GMs responsible for this been mentioned. There is thus no evidence to support any of the claims made by CCP, though ample documentation has been provided by players to show that they followed legitimate mechanics to achieve their goals.
3. The reimbursement that the wronged players received was smaller than that of the players who were given an unfair advantage. In fact, the wronged players were further penalized by CCP in that their enemies (who they fought using legitimate means) were allowed to fulfill their goals.

The only recourse that will show a decent level of honesty and transparency from CCP would be a public apology (in this thread and in a dev blog) from the GM responsible and an explanation of how a similar situation will be avoided in the future and of the punishment that the guilty GM will receive. Such an apology would make me satisfied with the GM team. Anything less would be, according to what I've experienced in the game and in this thread, would leave the player base with a damaging distrust for the GMs and for CCP in general.

A big thank you to Aerion and Violent Intent for bringing this to everyone's attention.

TL;DR: /me is mad, want blood, grrrrr.

---

Originally by: Dracoknight

---

Okay.... what CAN you do in empire then?

---

Originally by: Moral Virologist

---

Originally by: Antonius Lee

---

Edited by: Antonius Lee on 16/11/2010 00:12:21
CCP Morpheus and the GM team,

I think you are accorded the benefit of the doubt considering your position and employment; however, based on the information that I have read in this thread and the short and ambiguous responses of CCP Morpheus, I am forced to assume that there was an embarrassing error on the part of a GM that resulted in an unfair advantage being given to a group of players.

As I understand it, this unfairness was resolved by giving back to the advantaged players what they lost in the first place to valid game mechanics. The fact that the losses of the other party were also refunded is irrelevant, especially considering these losses were minuscule in comparison.

According to what I've learned from this thread, this situation was not only poorly handled to begin with, but the mishandling was then compounded by a frankly deceitful post from CCP Morpheus. Listed below are my concerns with what has transpired (as I have observed from this thread):

1. A CCP Employee failed to understand a basic and rather obvious game mechanic and penalized a group of players for his own failure.
2. The CCP IA team investigated the incident, including going over a "paper trail of emails, defects, and petitions" related to it. None of these documents have been referenced by CCP Morpheus in his responses in this thread. Neither have the names of the GMs responsible for this been mentioned. There is thus no evidence to support any of the claims made by CCP, though ample documentation has been provided by players to show that they followed legitimate mechanics to achieve their goals.
3. The reimbursement that the wronged players received was smaller than that of the players who were given an unfair advantage. In fact, the wronged players were further penalized by CCP in that their enemies (who they fought using legitimate means) were allowed to fulfill their goals.

The only recourse that will show a decent level of honesty and transparency from CCP would be a public apology (in this thread and in a dev blog) from the GM responsible and an explanation of how a similar situation will be avoided in the future and of the punishment that the guilty GM will receive. Such an apology would make me satisfied with the GM team. Anything less would be, according to what I've experienced in the game and in this thread, would leave the player base with a damaging distrust for the GMs and for CCP in general.

A big thank you to Aerion and Violent Intent for bringing this to everyone's attention.

TL;DR: /me is mad, want blood, grrrrr.

---

I fully agree with this post.

Whether the GM was acting maliciously or simply ignorantly, the situation was handled inapropriately.

---

Quote:

---

The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Theres a 3 Page response from the GMs in my inbox, theres actually evidence, important people have read it. Pretty sure if you actually thumb through the whole thread, we've openly shared information arguing our point.

---

Quote:

---

Edit: They removed their offer to reimburse ships/losses. This at least makes me a little happier about the situation.

---

Originally by: Mara Rinn

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Theres a 3 Page response from the GMs in my inbox, theres actually evidence, important people have read it. Pretty sure if you actually thumb through the whole thread, we've openly shared information arguing our point.

---

Have you posted that correspondence to some other forum such as SHC?

Quote:

---

Edit: They removed their offer to reimburse ships/losses. This at least makes me a little happier about the situation.

---

At least they're not trying to fix the mistake by making another mistake :)

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

SHC?

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

SHC?

---

Originally by: Borgh Brainbasher

---

Edited by: Borgh Brainbasher on 16/11/2010 12:51:05

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

SHC?

---

If you don't know it, you prbably shoudn't go there without familiarizing yourself with the locals first. Scrapheap Challenge is a eve-related forum where you can post gm corespondence without ccp-hired mods banning you. But as I said, it has a very...peculiar atmosphere to it.

EDIT: too slow, but its the link the guy above me posted

---

Originally by: Eto LabOne

---

GM's should not be able to play this game outside of test.

I utterly cannot believe that CCP allows its employees to play this game like any normal player. Most free game servers that host games and GMS do not allow their GMS to play on the server to avoid favoritism.

We pay for this game, and to see latent favoritism on many different situations is getting out of hand.

Anyone that has anything to do with the making of this game should not be able to play as a normal character.

---

Originally by: Inevitability

---

A little more info for the jury (you, the viewers). We were initially contracted against Militaris Industries. They promptly ran and joined Fatal Ascension. As the screenshots clearly show, all war fees were paid and paid in a timely manner. The war mysteriously ends 4 days early, and I receive a GM Refund for the war in my personal wallet with no explanation, no evemail, no GM convo, nothing.

---

Originally by: Jim Lovell

---

Adjub im Shocked!

---

Originally by: Gregor Vernof

---

Ok, so here's the recap.

What is known:

1. Merc Corp A war dec'd Corp B, Corp B joined Alliance C, All war dec fees were paid, all warning timers heeded.

2. During the second week of the war dec, a GM canceled the war and refunded the last war fee with no explanation. Petitions ensued. Thread posted on C&P.

3. Denizens of C&P tin foil hat brigade yell conspiracy, jaded regulars cry GM idiocy, others troll.

4. CCP IA researched the issue from their perspective and found no corruption or favoritism. More petitions ensue demanding explanation. More C&P conspiracy yelling, more jaded banter, more trolling.

5. Petitions answered with "Ops, our bad, were sorry. Would you like us to replace everyone's ships involved during this war?" Request for ship replacement refused and rescinded. Merc Corp A still ****ed (rightly so). C&P madness continues, conspiracies still abound, the jaded shake their heads, several actually try to be rational (apparently they don't realize this is C&P), trolling get more pathetic.

6. CCP remains officially silent on the entire issue since IA's proclamation. The Tin Foil Hat Brigade runs off site to continue their conspiracy chatter. The jaded give up realizing this is now a dead horse as far as CCP is concerned. The trolls still think someone should care what they say. And the rational, yet deluded, pass the issue to the CSM, the jaded take notice again and chuckle.

That about sum it up?

---

Quote:

---

The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.

---

Originally by: yopparai

---

As an ex-FA- member I can vouch that these guys would totally try to pull off something so lame. Also I've flown with Zagdul & my guess would be he put in the petition.

Finally I love how they say pew pew allways welcome; when they really mean is you're welcome to try and fight us but we will just pos up while you blow up our ratting carriers.

inb4 you mad, & yes I'm mad I wasted 6 months flying with these losers. O and shame on you CCP.

Yopp

---

Originally by: ajduB

---

I too would hope to see an answer to the "why it was ended" question. If it was a bad error by a gm then fix irt and go on.

---

Quote:

---

We also have no gm's in my corp to friends that are gm's....If a petition on my part could help better solve this **** up please feel free to pm in game! I'll get my GM buddies on it immediately!

---

Originally by: captain foivos

---

Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?

Wait a minute...

---

Originally by: Mynxee

---

Edited by: Mynxee on 16/11/2010 21:06:10
Several players have brought this matter to my and other CSM members' attention.

Just letting you all know that CCP is discussing the matter with CSM in our internal forums. I'm at work and confined to access here by iPhone so catching up on this thread and responding at length won't be possible til later. However, CCP has indicated to CSM that there will be a response here (hopefully today). If you can all be patient a little longer, I believe you will get the answers you are seeking and the matter will be clarified/sorted.

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

So- the long and short of our GM Response was... apparently a GM didn't understand that a corporation that we're at war with, joins an alliance, thus making the alliance a wartarget. Without a 24 hour cooldown.

So- now, they are going to refund everything lost on both sides, so we get 4 random ships back, and they get all 45 of theirs back...Linkage.

We got an apology.....

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

I will comment however, that despite all their efforts to deny they petitioned, -FA- has in fact petitioned the war because apparently they didn't understand that accepting a corp with active WarDecs will convert that dec against their entire alliance after said corps 24 hour warm up expires and they actually enter the alliance.

---

Originally by: The PitBoss

---

Error or not .. This will be dealt with

---

Originally by: Ore Grunt

---

Originally by: The PitBoss

---

Error or not .. This will be dealt with

---

What you think you're eve's friggin godfather or something lol

you all do know this is a game right lol

---

Originally by: Allestin Villimar

---

Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.

Originally by: Torothanax

---

Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

Originally by: Ore Grunt

---

Originally by: The PitBoss

---

Error or not .. This will be dealt with

---

What you think you're eve's friggin godfather or something lol

you all do know this is a game right lol

---

Originally by: Vaal Erit

---

From what I gather you got hit by the GM dork disease in which a GM makes a terribly bad call only to be later overruled by a smarter GM. In this case yes it is quite a terrible thing and you were given a bad deal as that GM did a very wrong thing by canceling your war dec early.

However, demanding a public apology and dev blog about this is going over the top. They did something wrong to you so they should apologize to you. CCP should only apologize to the community when it is an issue that affects the community at large (T20/POS exploit/etc) If you think this is the first time a GM has made a mistake then you got another thing coming.

Unless you can prove some GM/dev favoritism or involvement as I see it CCP refunds your isk, gives you personally an apology and says that the GM has been dealt with and the situation is over. Asking for some grand apology is unwarranted and unnecessary. We get it, a GM did something dumb...again.

---

Originally by: Indeterminacy

---

I heard neutral freighterm alts are the new black.

Also, why let a formality such as a war dec deflect from what you've been paid to do? You can go into low-sec / 0.0 and kill them for free. Perhaps you'd like to explain why you chose not to? Afterall, disrupting logistics into 0.0 should be easy right especially because FA are ****, etc, etc as you say. It's not like there aren't choke points for you to gank'm.

Wait, wait, don't tell me. You just wanted to chill outside 4-4 and get epic killmails courtesy of Charles Darwin himself. You're not actually interested in PVP. Would that be about right?

Srs Bzns....I went through a lot of posts and one thing I don't see a record of is a request on FA's part to end the dec via sekrit GM powers. That would be a useful piece of information to see. Otherwise, it's just accusations.

---

Originally by: Quendishir

---

Originally by: Indeterminacy

---

I heard neutral freighterm alts are the new black.

Also, why let a formality such as a war dec deflect from what you've been paid to do? You can go into low-sec / 0.0 and kill them for free. Perhaps you'd like to explain why you chose not to? Afterall, disrupting logistics into 0.0 should be easy right especially because FA are ****, etc, etc as you say. It's not like there aren't choke points for you to gank'm.

Wait, wait, don't tell me. You just wanted to chill outside 4-4 and get epic killmails courtesy of Charles Darwin himself. You're not actually interested in PVP. Would that be about right?

Srs Bzns....I went through a lot of posts and one thing I don't see a record of is a request on FA's part to end the dec via sekrit GM powers. That would be a useful piece of information to see. Otherwise, it's just accusations.

---

1.) Popping neutral freighter alts in low-sec brings with it the loss of security standing, resulting in loss of access to to high-sec systems. As a mercenary corporation, access to those systems is important for contracts.

2.) The war dec's premature and unforeseen termination led to the freighters getting away into safe null sec space. They aren't going to chase them into their enemy's safe space, since to do that would be tantamount to pulling a Custer.

3.) Posting chat logs and GM conversations on the forums is warranting of a ban.

4.) STFU you stupid **** and next time don't make it so obvious that you're an FA alt.

---

Originally by: Indeterminacy

---

I heard neutral freighterm alts are the new black.

Also, why let a formality such as a war dec deflect from what you've been paid to do? You can go into low-sec / 0.0 and kill them for free. Perhaps you'd like to explain why you chose not to? Afterall, disrupting logistics into 0.0 should be easy right especially because FA are ****, etc, etc as you say. It's not like there aren't choke points for you to gank'm.

Wait, wait, don't tell me. You just wanted to chill outside 4-4 and get epic killmails courtesy of Charles Darwin himself. You're not actually interested in PVP. Would that be about right?

Srs Bzns....I went through a lot of posts and one thing I don't see a record of is a request on FA's part to end the dec via sekrit GM powers. That would be a useful piece of information to see. Otherwise, it's just accusations.

---

Originally by: Indeterminacy

---

Excuse me while I completely miss the point and try to derail the discussion. Since I am Ubermench I will now rant/boost about Null Sec warfare vs Empire warfare.

Finally, success.

Fake Edit: Hold on a sec, I still need to make myself sound like the superior player I believe myself to be....

---

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr

---

Originally by: Vaal Erit

---

From what I gather you got hit by the GM dork disease in which a GM makes a terribly bad call only to be later overruled by a smarter GM. In this case yes it is quite a terrible thing and you were given a bad deal as that GM did a very wrong thing by canceling your war dec early.

However, demanding a public apology and dev blog about this is going over the top. They did something wrong to you so they should apologize to you. CCP should only apologize to the community when it is an issue that affects the community at large (T20/POS exploit/etc) If you think this is the first time a GM has made a mistake then you got another thing coming.

Unless you can prove some GM/dev favoritism or involvement as I see it CCP refunds your isk, gives you personally an apology and says that the GM has been dealt with and the situation is over. Asking for some grand apology is unwarranted and unnecessary. We get it, a GM did something dumb...again.

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Actually- I would say we asked for one, them pulling a dec for whatever reason affects more then just our alliance, but most of the Merc world (and those Griefer types too). The reason it was mentioned, is simply because a senior GM said they would respond to this thread with what happened, why, and how they are going to make it so that when a corp joins an alliance, the alliance gets a similar warmup message with a war, and whom its with.

Mynxee and the CSM Reps have been amazingly supportive during this whole situation, and I look forward to reading the notes from the summit. If you think that a wardec getting pulled via petition under false pretenses only affects me and my alliance, well... go back to mining. General Discussion is over there --->

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Originally by: Detria

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^^ This

Being a merc, the final outcome of this has a direct impact on how we play the game. High sec wars are our bread and butter and is a large reason why IÆve stuck with EvE for so long. If not handled properly this could set a horrible precedent that could drastically alter the way the game is played for the entire merc / griefer community. That being said, IÆm anxiously awaiting the resolution and applaud the efforts of Violent Intent in pursuing this with professionalism and patience. Seeing Myx involved gives me confidence that this will be handled appropriately.

Kill Em All,
Dee.

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Originally by: GM Lelouch

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There are no indications that the petition filed by Fatal Ascension was created with malicious intent.

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Originally by: GM Lelouch

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We have taken measures internally to ensure that all current and future GMs are familiar with in-game war mechanics as well as the policy listed above and we hope that these mistakes will not repeat themselves.

I'd like to address the matter of the reimbursement offer which was made to both sides which has been discussed quite a bit within this thread. As was mentioned above, Fatal Ascension was offered reimbursement for any ships which had been lost as a result of the war on the basis that the war notification had indeed been bugged. During our investigation into the whole ordeal on the 15th of November when Violent Intent's petition was being handled, an offer to reimburse the losses they had incurred was extended on the basis that Fatal Ascension had already received such an offer in the past and that their reimbursement claims had most likely already been granted at that point in time.

Removing ships which have already been reimbursed is something we wish to avoid as much as possible. This offer was made with the intention of compensating everyone involved and it was made before we had taken an in-depth look into the actual losses that were incurred throughout the duration of the war. After further consideration we decided instead that it would be best to redact the reimbursement offers that had been made to both sides on the grounds that it was the most reasonable way to be fair to everyone involved. All petitions submitted by members of corporations within Fatal Ascension after the war had been canceled were reviewed and no reimbursement had been granted.

I'd like to extend my most sincere apologies on behalf of the whole GM team for these mistakes on our part and I hope that the measures we've taken and are planning to take in response to this will prevent similar mistakes from happening in the future.

Best regards,
Senior GM Lelouch
EVE Online Customer Support

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