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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
Septu Resheph
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:04:00 -
[121]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Originally by: Cornwalace Q: What is the meaning of life? A:
What is 6 times 7?
and don't forget your Towel!!
LMFAO thank you so much for saying that, it totally made my night. AWESOME
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:16:00 -
[122]
sorry navigator.. but something had to be done about this
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Doctor Norris
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:05:00 -
[123]
Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Q: *Your question here* A:
What about my "72 sp/hour"?
Is that good or bad?
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Cassus Temon
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:41:00 -
[124]
Neither. They're hoping you'll quiet down, after you get to spend your free skillpoints. Seriously, whats the problem with this? I only ever trained one character to full 5/5; and I won't get any of that back. I sold him, so the guy who bought him; gets full refund of SP, to spend any way he likes. Means he payed 4 billion ISK; for 17 million dedicated PvP SP. Course, I got the 4 billion ISK; but, thats not much against a year of training.
Learning skills were tedious and unrewarding; be happy they are gone, and move on. I understand this is why some people are upset. It's not the 5/4 training that gets you; it's the 10+ day extra for each of the Adv. skills to V; when, really, you'd rather be doing anything else. But then, you've got to be obsessed to go that far anyway.
So glad its over!! Unfortunately, I'm a little disappointed; I only have 2.4 million SP to spend on each of my characters. Does that make sense?
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Debir Achen
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:41:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Debir Achen on 13/12/2010 03:45:54 Edited by: Debir Achen on 13/12/2010 03:45:15
Originally by: qaz zaq I am trying to apply this logic to a RL scenerio: Let me see...
So I have a Job that pays $5.72/hour New change: Job now pays $5.00/hour
A REFUND of earned points would be same as,
I have a bank account (sp in learning) of 5376000 points. The bank erases this amount and refunds(gives me the cash) which I can use anyway I want... Which I should as I earned every point.
I fail to see how dropping a pay rate from $5.72/hour to $5.00/hour is good and better for me, the wife and kids. If anyone out there, thinks it is, let me know. I want to hire you in RL... :-)
The analogy is broken. The ONLY thing your SP did was make your pay rate $5.72 per hour. You didn't get to take a cent of it home; all you did was re-invest it in your pay.
Now, they're making the pay rate a flat $5.00 hour, and giving all that "dead" investment back to you in a lump sum.
The RL scenario is that the Royal Amarr Investment Fund (the ONLY fund in town) says that rather than buying "investment shares" that up your pay rate to $5.72, everyone gets paid $5.00. But those who paid in the big bucks for a run at the higher rate get their big bucks refunded, but also get to keep any benefits from the $5.72 they used to earn.
Proposition 1: regardless of your current Learning skills now, it will take several YEARS into the future before you'll be in a mathematically worse situation after this change than before. This is trivially easy to prove.
Proposition 2: if you knew this change was coming, and ignoring the cost of buying skill-books, you would still not lose out if you proceeded to train advanced learning in your best skills. These skills convert 1:1 to ANY skill you wish to train (even those where you'd normally learn at reduced rate). Mostly, you only lose out here if you've remapped away from memory and then spent the last 2 weeks training basic learning skills (in which case, there are a bunch of friendly people in Jita who'd love to offer you a bargain). |
Ryhss
Caldari Ominous Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:55:00 -
[126]
Originally by: ROCK JOKK Since some of us have trained some of the Learning skills to lv2 or 3, but spent 4.5 mil isk, will we receive a partial reimbursement in skill points or isk?
Yes....
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 04:49:00 -
[127]
Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 04:55:55
Originally by: Debir Achen Edited by: Debir Achen on 13/12/2010 03:45:54 Edited by: Debir Achen on 13/12/2010 03:45:15
Originally by: qaz zaq I am trying to apply this logic to a RL scenerio: Let me see...
So I have a Job that pays $5.72/hour New change: Job now pays $5.00/hour
A REFUND of earned points would be same as,
I have a bank account (sp in learning) of 5376000 points. The bank erases this amount and refunds(gives me the cash) which I can use anyway I want... Which I should as I earned every point.
I fail to see how dropping a pay rate from $5.72/hour to $5.00/hour is good and better for me, the wife and kids. If anyone out there, thinks it is, let me know. I want to hire you in RL... :-)
The analogy is broken. The ONLY thing your SP did was make your pay rate $5.72 per hour. You didn't get to take a cent of it home; all you did was re-invest it in your pay.
Now, they're making the pay rate a flat $5.00 hour, and giving all that "dead" investment back to you in a lump sum.
The RL scenario is that the Royal Amarr Investment Fund (the ONLY fund in town) says that rather than buying "investment shares" that up your pay rate to $5.72, everyone gets paid $5.00. But those who paid in the big bucks for a run at the higher rate get their big bucks refunded, but also get to keep any benefits from the $5.72 they used to earn.
Proposition 1: regardless of your current Learning skills now, it will take several YEARS into the future before you'll be in a mathematically worse situation after this change than before. This is trivially easy to prove.
Proposition 2: if you knew this change was coming, and ignoring the cost of buying skill-books, you would still not lose out if you proceeded to train advanced learning in your best skills. These skills convert 1:1 to ANY skill you wish to train (even those where you'd normally learn at reduced rate). Mostly, you only lose out here if you've remapped away from memory and then spent the last 2 weeks training basic learning skills (in which case, there are a bunch of friendly people in Jita who'd love to offer you a bargain).
-----
You are losing the rate with a 72 diff (being a negative rate) and supplementing this rate from your savings is not the same. But, all u see is that in 8 years etc., you need to understand that Today, now, right this second... There is a 72 sp/hour LOSS in rate. LOSS, we are talking speed, not balance of refunded sp's, not how long this, or how lnog that.. I am talking RATE of Learning speed ONLY. It will DECREASE 72 sp/hour, nothing makes up for that loss.
There is nothing else to say, no matter what arguments everyone uses, about this refund or that refund or 8 years till this or that. At the end of day, the speed of many toons sp learning has DECREASED! I mean, am I missing something? Speed is speed, refund of something taken away is refund of something taken away? Speed is different after patch.... it is slower by 72 sp/hour.
Merry christmas.! :-)
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Zekor
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Posted - 2010.12.13 04:55:00 -
[128]
hahaha :D so many trolls here! :D CCP thx for removing learning skills! and let us put them into useful place! ^^
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Joba'Set
Drunken Profit
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Posted - 2010.12.13 04:58:00 -
[129]
72 skillpoints a hour around 630k a year right at 10 days a year of training
I like the idea of 600k a year on the 14 would shut me up. Have you noticed that when it came up on test sever they shut us up about it. Now they have not said anything about it.
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:10:00 -
[130]
Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:13:19 Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:10:14 Also an interesting detail during the CSM/CCP meeting notes (Raw log)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modify_or_Remove_Learning_Skills_%28CSM%29
Which was agreed upon or stated as an Important concern:
---------- Important Caveats Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:
No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate. ---------
I believe that training at a rate of 72 sp/hr slower than now is "slower than their current rate????"
Hmm, interesting concept. Not going by their own rules and agreements with CSM.
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Joba'Set
Drunken Profit
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:17:00 -
[131]
Originally by: qaz zaq Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:13:19 Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:10:14 Also an interesting detail during the CSM/CCP meeting notes (Raw log)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modify_or_Remove_Learning_Skills_%28CSM%29
Which was agreed upon or stated as an Important concern:
---------- Important Caveats Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:
No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate. ---------
I believe that training at a rate of 72 sp/hr slower than now is "slower than their current rate????"
Hmm, interesting concept. Not going by their own rules and agreements with CSM.
lol I would Have loved to have found this 1st when we tested . But for some reason I betting this post will disappear soon.
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:27:00 -
[132]
:-) Well, seems the CSM is not as 'powerful' or 'Important' as we thought. Funny thing is, that even though this is a stated item in both the Raw logs and Evepedia, the CSM members haven't said one thing in regards to it and niether has CCP. Interesting the Silence heard in these halls, about something they stated would never happen.
Thats Life!
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Joba'Set
Drunken Profit
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:32:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Joba''Set on 13/12/2010 05:32:37 From Test forum msg 66
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Kelby Becuase of the way the "Learning" skill worked (with my current implants and remap) my Perception has dropped from 33 to 32.
Yes, as far as I know that is the design we're sticking with. I understand that's annoying but it's not in my power to change. Please don't turn this topic into a discussion on the design. I need results from the test not opinions on things I cannot change.
However, changing an integer in the update is not rocket science so this test is just as valid for + 12 as it is for +0< X < MAX_INT.
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white kight
Galaxy Punks Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:35:00 -
[134]
Edited by: white kight on 13/12/2010 05:35:41
Originally by: qaz zaq Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:13:19 Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:10:14 Also an interesting detail during the CSM/CCP meeting notes (Raw log)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modify_or_Remove_Learning_Skills_%28CSM%29
Which was agreed upon or stated as an Important concern:
---------- Important Caveats Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:
No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate. ---------
I believe that training at a rate of 72 sp/hr slower than now is "slower than their current rate????"
Hmm, interesting concept. Not going by their own rules and agreements with CSM.
Maybe CCP didn't anticipate the amount of people crying over 72sp/h. FFS, if you all cry over this, what will happen when ccp changes something that really affects you?
Q: Do we get a free Neural Remap? A:?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:40:00 -
[135]
Stating the facts and the truth about promises, etc is not QQ'ing. It is stating the truth and facts.
If CSM is actually advocates FOR players, and they stated that 'no one learns slower than currently', where is their response? As well as CCP's?
And standing up for something you believe is unfair as agreed upon, is not crying.
Also, trying to figure out why you actually care? Stop reading the forums if the content is not what you want to read.
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white kight
Galaxy Punks Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:46:00 -
[136]
Originally by: qaz zaq Stating the facts and the truth about promises, etc is not QQ'ing. It is stating the truth and facts.
If CSM is actually advocates FOR players, and they stated that 'no one learns slower than currently', where is their response? As well as CCP's?
And standing up for something you believe is unfair as agreed upon, is not crying.
Also, trying to figure out why you actually care? Stop reading the forums if the content is not what you want to read.
If you care so much go to the CSM section part of the forums and post about it there. At the end of the day 72sp/h is such a small difference it doesn't a huge game changing issue. Quite simple put, who cares lol. So you train ever so slightly slower than before, how about the fact you now have 5 mil extra skill points to instantly do cap ships 5, titan 5, command ships 5 etc, without actually having to boredom of training them? (if you put the skill points into what was your lowest attribute, you can make the reimbursed skills train the skill slightly faster technically than if you were training it normally)
Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:49:00 -
[137]
So, I get 5 million extra sp's? So, Instead of having 35,000,000 I will now have 40,000,000? Or will I have 30,000,000 + 5 million that I can respend as they were REFUNDED from being taken away?
Not same issue as a rate change. but, you can't seem to understand that.
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Rommah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:55:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Rommah on 13/12/2010 05:55:52 Hello... I already posted a topic on the issue here: Skill Compensation
Basically, I remember that learning skills used to be 5x... I trained them while they were at 5x value... A while back they were made into 3x to make it easier on new players... Since I spent higher LP, then they were converted into 3x LP value. Someone told me Im a bit confused. Now I question my memory...
Q: If Im right, will I be compensated for the old SP value?
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Joba'Set
Drunken Profit
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:55:00 -
[139]
If they dont have max skill then they dont get it and will never get. More or less CCP is making us train a 10 Day Skill every year.
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:01:00 -
[140]
Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 06:01:47 I checked my screen captures from beginning 2006 and at that time, Advanced learning skills had a max of 768000 (3x). I can't help before that.
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Rommah
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:04:00 -
[141]
Originally by: qaz zaq Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 06:01:47 I checked my screen captures from beginning 2006 and at that time, Advanced learning skills had a max of 768000 (3x). I can't help before that.
Can you post the screenie in the linked topic please! I been looking/asking for a screenie confirmation for a while now. If Im wrong how the ell did I get this confused? : \
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Joba'Set
Drunken Profit
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:06:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Rommah Edited by: Rommah on 13/12/2010 05:55:52 Hello... I already posted a topic on the issue here: Skill Compensation
Basically, I remember that learning skills used to be 5x... I trained them while they were at 5x value... A while back they were made into 3x to make it easier on new players... Since I spent higher LP, then they were converted into 3x LP value. Someone told me Im a bit confused. Now I question my memory...
Q: If Im right, will I be compensated for the old SP value?
Thats a Problem, also that went under the rug, but the older player just accept they get screwed. I dont mind that everyone is able to train as Fast as I can Now. Even after i spent Weeks Maxing out my Skills. I just dont want "me" to be slower at it!
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qaz zaq
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:14:00 -
[143]
- <skillGroup groupName="Learning" groupID="267"> - <skill typeName="Analytical Mind" typeID="3377"> <groupID>267</groupID> <flag>7</flag> <rank>1</rank> <skillpoints>256000</skillpoints> <level>5</level> <skilllevel1>250</skilllevel1> <skilllevel2>1415</skilllevel2> <skilllevel3>8000</skilllevel3> <skilllevel4>45255</skilllevel4> <skilllevel5>256000</skilllevel5> </skill> - <skill typeName="Clarity" typeID="12387"> <groupID>267</groupID> <flag>7</flag> <rank>3</rank> <skillpoints>750</skillpoints> <level>1</level> <skilllevel1>750</skilllevel1> <skilllevel2>4243</skilllevel2> <skilllevel3>24000</skilllevel3> <skilllevel4>135765</skilllevel4> <skilllevel5>768000</skilllevel5> </skill>
that was 2006
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:48:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Arkhelus Are we going to get a free remap aswell?
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:51:00 -
[145]
Originally by: white kight ....
Maybe CCP didn't anticipate the amount of people crying over 72sp/h. FFS, if you all cry over this, what will happen when ccp changes something that really affects you?
Q: Do we get a free Neural Remap? A:?
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:54:00 -
[146]
Originally by: northroop Grumman Ok, Have a simple question, and haven't seen an actual answer from CCP:
On one of my toons, I have remapped about 6 months ago and maxed out Precep. When the learning thing is complete, will I be able to remap or will I have to wait the rest of the 6 months to do so?
And also, in regards to this "but please CCP, acknowledge that you have hurt us. At least give us that." from a previous post. No person in a higher position (political or otherwise) can ever admit publically that they created a 'hurt' to someone, otherwise once admitted, they would have to fix it. And a Negative change is a negative change, period, end of discussion. Nothing else matters.
So, what about a real answer to my remap question?
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:57:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Commander Kennedy Q: Will everyone be receiving a free remap on TQ like they did on Sisi? A:
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:59:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Ervol Libra Q: Will the neural remap counters be reset?
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 07:02:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Qrtayl
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Q: *Your question here* A:
With the extra attribute points naturally come questions of distributing them. Some of us will be waiting a long time for a remap. It would make sense to allow us to distribute those points and not have to wait for several months for a remap if we recently did one. Particularly since we did not know to wait on a remap, that a major change was coming. So...people are asking, did I miss the post where you addressed that concern?
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Guy Ferox
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Posted - 2010.12.13 07:06:00 -
[150]
Q: why wont you answer the question A:
Q: will we get the nerual remap counter reset A:
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