Originally by: CCP Stillman

---

• Any injected skill book that was not trained at all was removed without any reimbursement


• Any learning skill you had trained was removed, and all SP you had trained in it was reimbursed as free skill points (See the green text at the top of your skill sheet)


• If you were training a learning skill, the learning skill was removed from the skill queue and your skill queue was restarted with any non-learning-skill you had in your queue


• If you had any learning skill book in a hangar/cargo/corp hangar/container in space/etc., your skill books have been reimbursed at the following values, to the owning entity
  
  • Learning skill book: 31,500.00 ISK
  
  
  • Tier 1 learning skill book: 35,000.00 ISK
  
  
  • Tier 2 learning skill book: 4,500,000.00 ISK


• Any learning skill books in a contract have been replaced with a Pax Amarria, and the skill book was reimbursed at same above values.
  


• Any learning skill books in a market order was reimbursed at the same values listed above
  

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

Originally by: Tres Farmer

---

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 12/12/2010 18:59:54

Q: Did CCP Santa think of this all by himself or had he help from elves?
CCP Santa drinks beer instead of milk so all the elves had to help out.

Q: Does CCP Santa fly a North Polaris sled?
Yes

Q: Does CCP Santa talk with CCP Easter Bunny about additions to this, so that CCP Easter Bunny doesn't bring us something totally unrelated?
CCP Easter Bunny was unavailable for comments.

Q: Has CCP Easter Bunny a totally coloured Pod, like those Easter Eggs?
Yes, I reported him once for hacking and GM Horse just laughed at me.

Q: What's CCP Santas and CCP Easter Bunnys opinion on Armageddon Day on New Years Eve?
They think the current amount of chaos on Tranquility is enough.

Q: Will CCP Santa give us new Balls for our launchers from last year?
Have you been a good little boy or girl this year? Guess you will have to wait and see.

---

Originally by: Lirael Dyrim

---

"Any injected skill book that was not trained at all was removed without any reimbursement"

Does that only count for Learning skills or all skills that have not been trained?

---

Originally by: Lirael Dyrim

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"Any injected skill book that was not trained at all was removed without any reimbursement"

Does that only count for Learning skills or all skills that have not been trained?

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

Originally by: Salpad

---

Originally by: Lirael Dyrim

---

"Any injected skill book that was not trained at all was removed without any reimbursement"

Does that only count for Learning skills or all skills that have not been trained?

---

There's no logical reason whatsoever for removing injected-but-not-yet-trained skillz from outside the Learning category.

---

Originally by: Penicilin

---

Does our current rewmap stay the same + aded points or it resets to 20.20.20.19?
Do we get a mini or full rewmap to reallocate additional attribute points we are getting now (ppl that didn't have all learning skills trained to lvl5)?

---

Originally by: Dark Odile

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Q: If a character with free skill points is tranferred, what happens to the free skill points?

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Originally by: Arkhelus

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Are we going to get a free remap aswell?

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Originally by: NYTERRORZ

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Q: so these attribute points will they default into the assigned learning skill they were taken from or are they assignable to what ever we want? IE there are X ammount of learning skill bonus points to charisma can i put those into intelligence instead?

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Originally by: Giselle Garner

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Give us a neural remap to "correct" the new situation.

---

Originally by: realdognose

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Q: Are the Skillpoints of partialy trained learning skills reimbursed, too? (i.e. if you have trained 300k from lvl IV to V)

---

Originally by: Reicine Ceer

---

Edited by: Reicine Ceer on 12/12/2010 19:21:30
Q:Should i dump my skillpoints into ECM or Gunnery?
A: Your Answer Here

Q: But seriously now, is CCP anticipating any negative effects of this change, and if so, is there anything we should look out for?
A: Your Answer Here

---

Originally by: NYTERRORZ

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Q:i wasnt talking about the skill points i was talking about the attribute points that we get from the learning skills. like if you train iron will up to 5 you get 5 perception points from it. or are all the attribute points that come with the learning skills dissapeering as well? because thats gonna increase training time by a lot.

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Originally by: Guinness Hooker

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tell People what happens if you have max learning skills and a major remap with +5. 22/33/22/26.40/22 if you spent the time you get the shaft

---

Originally by: NYTERRORZ

---

Q:i wasnt talking about the skill points i was talking about the attribute points that we get from the learning skills. like if you train iron will up to 5 you get 5 perception points from it. or are all the attribute points that come with the learning skills dissapeering as well? because thats gonna increase training time by a lot.

---

Originally by: NYTERRORZ

---

Q:i wasnt talking about the skill points i was talking about the attribute points that we get from the learning skills. like if you train iron will up to 5 you get 5 perception points from it. or are all the attribute points that come with the learning skills dissapeering as well? because thats gonna increase training time by a lot.

---

Originally by: NYTERRORZ

---

Q:so let me get this right.... ccp is removing 55 attribute points from the learning system and thus increasing the learning time from this point on? or am i missing something?

---

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

In brief words: the people that got full Learning won't have a big change of we had (a very small portion of the player base).

---

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

Originally by: Guinness Hooker

---

tell People what happens if you have max learning skills and a major remap with +5. 22/33/22/26.40/22 if you spent the time you get the shaft

---

Right now I've got, with +5's but Charisma, 28,6/30,8/16,5/22/22. And even stating that, "correcting" the situation with a Neural Remap, I like this decision. The other matter are the "related things".

So your Fine with never being ablle to have 33 and a 26.4 high again best you can ever do now is 32 and 26 rest as 22 you lose 1.4 skill points

Originally by: I'thari

---

oh well, guess we won't ever find out why some of us actually got -1.5 attribute points as a "christmas present"...

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

In brief words: the people that got full Learning won't have a big change of we had (a very small portion of the player base).

---

That "not a big change" is actually why those people bothered to train full learning skills bacause it's basicly difference between 5/4 with +5s and 5/5 with +5s.

---

Originally by: I'thari

---

oh well, guess we won't ever find out why some of us actually got -1.5 attribute points as a "christmas present"...

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

In brief words: the people that got full Learning won't have a big change of we had (a very small portion of the player base).

---

That "not a big change" is actually why those people bothered to train full learning skills bacause it's basicly difference between 5/4 with +5s and 5/5 with +5s.

---

Originally by: 548645156

---

will all the char in the same account get the sp for each char

---

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

Originally by: I'thari

---

oh well, guess we won't ever find out why some of us actually got -1.5 attribute points as a "christmas present"...

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

In brief words: the people that got full Learning won't have a big change of we had (a very small portion of the player base).

---

That "not a big change" is actually why those people bothered to train full learning skills bacause it's basicly difference between 5/4 with +5s and 5/5 with +5s.

---

Don't see your point of -1.5 attribute points. I will receive 20+5 = 25 base points. And the highest attrib I've got right now is Perception with 30,8. Don't find possible to loss in any situation with the remap of March,12

In my case, I knew I was going to survive in this game for years (I started with another account in Red Moon Rising). Only a long term decision when had to create this new account with a problem in the old account to re-activate.

And you are forgetting the buff to skills with the points of removal. If you are worried of having slower training, put them in the longest skill of your plan. I will do it...

---

Originally by: Guinness Hooker

---

Originally by: I'thari

---

oh well, guess we won't ever find out why some of us actually got -1.5 attribute points as a "christmas present"...

Originally by: Giselle Garner

---

In brief words: the people that got full Learning won't have a big change of we had (a very small portion of the player base).

---

That "not a big change" is actually why those people bothered to train full learning skills bacause it's basicly difference between 5/4 with +5s and 5/5 with +5s.

---

I feel your pain on 3 accounts lol

---

Originally by: Cornwalace

---

Q: If I were to purchase the Commissioned Officer Edition from a store, do we still have access to the Cerebral Accelerator towards any new account/character we may decide to create, since it is a sort of "new player learning speed bonus"?
A:

Q: Would utilizing the Cerebral Accelerator be the equivalent of using the new player learning speed bonus for those of us with new accounts (or wanting to start new accounts)?
A:

Q:What other "Miscellaneous other cleanup tasks will be performed that are not very interesting" regarding the learning skills are happening?
A:

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Originally by: Cornwalace

---

Q: If I were to purchase the Commissioned Officer Edition from a store, do we still have access to the Cerebral Accelerator towards any new account/character we may decide to create, since it is a sort of "new player learning speed bonus"?
A:

Q: Would utilizing the Cerebral Accelerator be the equivalent of using the new player learning speed bonus for those of us with new accounts (or wanting to start new accounts)?
A:

Q:What other "Miscellaneous other cleanup tasks will be performed that are not very interesting" regarding the learning skills are happening?
A:

---

Implants are not being changed because they are not learning skills

I also have no idea about those miscellaneous other cleanup tasks but I'll see if I can find someone to answer that for you.

---

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate

---

I have only stupid questions, but I'll ask anyway to be certain...I tried the Sisi test, but being as I was training learning skills on TQ i had no point of reference to what my refunds should have been

Q: Will the bonus points expire at any point in the future, or can I hang onto them?
A:

Q: Will the new bonus points overwrite any existing bonus skillpoints, like from the unexpected server downtime however long ago?
A:

---

Originally by: CCP Stillman

---

The miscellaneous part refers to following items, but are not limited to:
1. All mentions of learning skills removed from tutorials, evelopedia, other text in the client
2. All complexes that required skills to activate gates, no longer requires those
3. Changing of the name and description of the static data for learning skills, as we can't complete remove them quite yet

---

Originally by: I'thari

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

What about my "72 sp/hour"?

---

Originally by: Kool StoryBro

---

<---

---

Originally by: CCP Spitfire

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Spam post removed.

---

Originally by: Ovella

---

Originally by: CCP Stillman

---

The miscellaneous part refers to following items, but are not limited to:
1. All mentions of learning skills removed from tutorials, evelopedia, other text in the client
2. All complexes that required skills to activate gates, no longer requires those
3. Changing of the name and description of the static data for learning skills, as we can't complete remove them quite yet

---

Any chance you'll also get to cnaging PLEX description to relate "recent" changes?

I'm reffering to ones that allowed it's transportation, ofc

---

Originally by: haarlowe

---

Q: Come December 14th, if a character is inactive, do they still get their skill points back to use upon reactivation?

A:

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

Originally by: CCP Stillman

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Originally by: Cornwalace

---

Q: If I were to purchase the Commissioned Officer Edition from a store, do we still have access to the Cerebral Accelerator towards any new account/character we may decide to create, since it is a sort of "new player learning speed bonus"?
A:

Q: Would utilizing the Cerebral Accelerator be the equivalent of using the new player learning speed bonus for those of us with new accounts (or wanting to start new accounts)?
A:

Q:What other "Miscellaneous other cleanup tasks will be performed that are not very interesting" regarding the learning skills are happening?
A:

---

Implants are not being changed because they are not learning skills

I also have no idea about those miscellaneous other cleanup tasks but I'll see if I can find someone to answer that for you.

---

Why hallo there,

The miscellaneous part refers to following items, but are not limited to:
1. All mentions of learning skills removed from tutorials, evelopedia, other text in the client
2. All complexes that required skills to activate gates, no longer requires those
3. Changing of the name and description of the static data for learning skills, as we can't complete remove them quite yet

As for the Cerebral Accelerator, we're not changing anything in regards to it, and it will continue to be given to players who buys the new sexy box, and anybody using it as of Tuesday will not experience any problems from using it.

---

Originally by: Matek Sorak

---

Q: Will the max possible value for attribute (except Chari be lowered to 32 from 33?
A:

---

Quote:

---

# Neural Remap window overhaul * Our UI designers and programmers were in holiday mood, and overhauled the Neural Remap window, making it much more intuitive. Why not check it out and see if any other gifts await you there!

---

Originally by: CCP Oveur

---

Guess what I'm wearing.

---

Originally by: Boinz

---

Q: In the patchnotes for the upcoming patch, this little tease is slipped in:

Quote:

---

# Neural Remap window overhaul * Our UI designers and programmers were in holiday mood, and overhauled the Neural Remap window, making it much more intuitive. Why not check it out and see if any other gifts await you there!

---

What does it mean?

A:

---

Originally by: Jeff Geoff

---

I've spent a lot of time with 4 toons (not main accounts - two main account toons already developed) training up learning skills to facilitate speedy learning of trade skills, and buying skill implants - I'm a trader in the main - to attempt to achieve tycoon IV in all accounts, aim being to dominate all possible 0.0 markets and all of Empire in those commodities I deal in.
I'm not sure what u r up to but it seems I have wasted a lot of time. I'm not happy, I could have trained these guys to fly dreads?
But then Eve probably is a total waste of time, sigh.
Sigh.
Timewaster Jeff

---

Originally by: Cornwalace

---

Q: What is the meaning of life?
A:

---

Originally by: Galen Kamari

---

Q: Will the day ever come when people will read a thread before asking questions already answered in it?
A: No, people are ****ing stupid.

---

Originally by: Mike deVoid

---

.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2700 SP/hour.

So *if* you have trained to 5/5 then your maximum possible rate drop by 72 sp/hr at most as this assumes you wear your +5 implants all the time. Because of the 5.376,000 SP reimbursement you won't feel any nerf for a minimum of just over 8.5 years. That figure drops by about 1 year for each Advanced Learning you only put to lvl 4.

For 5/4 and below, it's a boost.

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Since one question already been asked but not answered I take the liberty to put it a little clearer in 2 short questions:

WHAT ABOUT THE 72 SP/h NERF????
WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING THAT THIS IS A X-MAS PRESENT WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SOLID GFYHITA FOR PLAYERS WHO DID FINNISH THE MOTHER****ING ****TY MALNEUTRICIANT GOD DAM UGLY / EXPENSIVE CRAPPY ****SKILLS THAT THEY ARE?

If this is a christmas present, it would have to be in back-wards land, where santa climbs down the chimney to steal all the toys for the sleeping children. What a jerk eh?

Some x-mas this is....

---

Originally by: TSX01

---

Q: Currently I have already remaped my attributes, so after Dec 14 will all my attribute became 20/20/20/20/19? Or will it add attributes depends on my learning skill that have not been trained, and add to each corresponding category on top of my current remap status?

---

Originally by: Trina Carmen

---

so in 8 years from now when the diff between the sp you get back and the sp you lose an hours catches up you should be to uber to care.....no?

---

Originally by: Trina Carmen

---

honestly this is a good change for 99% of eve player's and will improve the new player base why don't you get over yourself and look at the big picture.

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Since one question already been asked but not answered I take the liberty to put it a little clearer in 2 short questions:

WHAT ABOUT THE 72 SP/h NERF????
WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING THAT THIS IS A X-MAS PRESENT WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SOLID GFYHITA FOR PLAYERS WHO DID FINNISH THE MOTHER****ING ****TY MALNEUTRICIANT GOD DAM UGLY / EXPENSIVE CRAPPY ****SKILLS THAT THEY ARE?

If this is a christmas present, it would have to be in back-wards land, where santa climbs down the chimney to steal all the toys for the sleeping children. What a jerk eh?

Some x-mas this is....

---

Originally by: Trina Carmen

---

honestly this is a good change for 99% of eve player's and will improve the new player base why don't you get over yourself and look at the big picture.

---

Originally by: Trina Carmen

---

so in 8 years from now when the diff between the sp you get back and the sp you lose an hours catches up you should be to uber to care.....no?

---

Originally by: DJWiggles

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

Can I have a Pony?

Love and kisses..

Wiggles

---

Originally by: mjed mazga

---

Originally by: Trina Carmen

---

honestly this is a good change for 99% of eve player's and will improve the new player base why don't you get over yourself and look at the big picture.

---

I'm one of the people who will be affected by the loss of 72 SP/hour optimal skill training speed, and on multiple accounts.

I admit to being fairly upset that yes, I did train all 5.3 million of those skillpoints at SUB-OPTIMAL sp/hour training speeds, and yes, even though I now get to reallocate them elsewhere, the 8 year argument does not hold water because of the sub-optimal training speeds I endured to max out my attributes.

It hurts, and CCP should come out and say so. They don't have to fix it but it's the right thing to do to at least acknowledge it. Do the right thing, CCP. Please.

HOWEVER, here's how I have justified the changes to myself and how these changes will affect me long-term:

I have a lot of alts, and on even my mains, I have a couple of toons which have skills trained, and which I would like to train a couple more skills.

Now I will be able to train them at optimal SP/hour levels far exceeding that which was previously possible (since I would never have trained all lvl5 learning skills on them). This, in the end, is where the change benefits us lvl5 learning skill people. The time we will save in training on new accounts or new toons versus the past will make it worth it.

In the end, however, it is about 700k SP per year that you are losing, so roughly 2 weeks of skill training time, and for CCP, it comes down to money and now they are going to make an extra few bucks every year off everyone, even their most loyal, devoted, long-term customers like myself and others who have trained all learnings to V.

Please accept the change as a good one, but please CCP, acknowledge that you have hurt us. At least give us that.

---

Originally by: Konoch

---

To those *****ing about that 72 sp per hour....


YOUR GETTING OVER FIVE MILLION FREE ****ING SP!!

72*24=1728 per day....630720 per year....it will take nearly EIGHT MORE YEARS TO EQUAL WHAT YOU RECIEVE ON TUESDAY!!

Jesus ****in Christ get the hell over yourselves.

---

Originally by: mjed mazga

---

Originally by: Konoch

---

To those *****ing about that 72 sp per hour....


YOUR GETTING OVER FIVE MILLION FREE ****ING SP!!

72*24=1728 per day....630720 per year....it will take nearly EIGHT MORE YEARS TO EQUAL WHAT YOU RECIEVE ON TUESDAY!!

Jesus ****in Christ get the hell over yourselves.

---

umad bro?

---

Originally by: Konoch

---

To those *****ing about that 72 sp per hour....


YOUR GETTING OVER FIVE MILLION FREE ****ING SP!!

72*24=1728 per day....630720 per year....it will take nearly EIGHT MORE YEARS TO EQUAL WHAT YOU RECIEVE ON TUESDAY!!

Jesus ****in Christ get the hell over yourselves.

---

Originally by: Billy Stevens

---

They should just make it +13 rather than +12, then everybody is happy :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ;_; JOO STEEL MAH SMUG SENSE OF SURPERIORITAH!!!!

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Kthksbai.

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Kthksbai.

---

Lamer!

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

screw the 8,5 years. The reimbursment does not count since I already did those SP (At reduced training speed mind you!) so as of 14'th I will receive SP slower then I did before 14'th. Nothing to argue about and spare me the theories and bullsacks.

You whiners have won and get your learning skills for free, now I get to rage about it! I suggest you get your cups and whatnot and collect tears or whatever you forum pro's call it.

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Kthksbai.

---

Lamer!

---

pot

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

pot

---

^^^---Which you smoke too much of....

---

Originally by: Guinness Hooker

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

screw the 8,5 years. The reimbursment does not count since I already did those SP (At reduced training speed mind you!) so as of 14'th I will receive SP slower then I did before 14'th. Nothing to argue about and spare me the theories and bullsacks.

You whiners have won and get your learning skills for free, now I get to rage about it! I suggest you get your cups and whatnot and collect tears or whatever you forum pro's call it.

---

IT Makes a big deal when you train a high lvl skill. Days not hours But then again you prob not even close to training any of the Battleship to 5 or Carriers to 5.

---

Originally by: Konoch

---

To those *****ing about that 72 sp per hour....


YOUR GETTING OVER FIVE MILLION FREE ****ING SP!!

72*24=1728 per day....630720 per year....it will take nearly EIGHT MORE YEARS TO EQUAL WHAT YOU RECIEVE ON TUESDAY!!

Jesus ****in Christ get the hell over yourselves.

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

pot

---

^^^---Which you smoke too much of....

---

OMG U Awesome dude. How you come up with this original reply?

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Since one question already been asked but not answered I take the liberty to put it a little clearer in 2 short questions:

WHAT ABOUT THE 72 SP/h NERF????
WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING THAT THIS IS A X-MAS PRESENT WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SOLID GFYHITA FOR PLAYERS WHO DID FINNISH THE MOTHER****ING ****TY MALNEUTRICIANT GOD DAM UGLY / EXPENSIVE CRAPPY ****SKILLS THAT THEY ARE?

If this is a christmas present, it would have to be in back-wards land, where santa climbs down the chimney to steal all the toys for the sleeping children. What a jerk eh?

Some x-mas this is....

---

Originally by: Dr Fighter

---

"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"

Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.

---

Originally by: Taedrin

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Since one question already been asked but not answered I take the liberty to put it a little clearer in 2 short questions:

WHAT ABOUT THE 72 SP/h NERF????
WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING THAT THIS IS A X-MAS PRESENT WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SOLID GFYHITA FOR PLAYERS WHO DID FINNISH THE MOTHER****ING ****TY MALNEUTRICIANT GOD DAM UGLY / EXPENSIVE CRAPPY ****SKILLS THAT THEY ARE?

If this is a christmas present, it would have to be in back-wards land, where santa climbs down the chimney to steal all the toys for the sleeping children. What a jerk eh?

Some x-mas this is....

---

Fine, I will answer your question for you.

You will be refunded your skill points, so it will be as if you had never had to train those skills in the first place. So NOT ONLY did you have the benefit of having 5/5 learning skills for your entire life until this point, but the time cost associated with training those skills will be removed - so it will be as if you never wasted any time training those skills to level 5 in the first place!

ALSO, the skill point refund is FAR greater than the 72 sp/hour nerf that you may experience. The proof?

Let us presume that you get a refund of 5.4 million sps. Divide that by 72 sp/hour to get 75,000 hours. This is the number of hours it would take for the 72 sp/hour nerf to "undo" the skill point refund. Given that there are approximately 8765 hours in a year (counting leap years), this means that it will take 8.5 years for this "nerf" to actually negatively effect your training speed.

---

Originally by: Taedrin

---

Originally by: Schmacos tryne

---

Since one question already been asked but not answered I take the liberty to put it a little clearer in 2 short questions:

WHAT ABOUT THE 72 SP/h NERF????
WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING THAT THIS IS A X-MAS PRESENT WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SOLID GFYHITA FOR PLAYERS WHO DID FINNISH THE MOTHER****ING ****TY MALNEUTRICIANT GOD DAM UGLY / EXPENSIVE CRAPPY ****SKILLS THAT THEY ARE?

If this is a christmas present, it would have to be in back-wards land, where santa climbs down the chimney to steal all the toys for the sleeping children. What a jerk eh?

Some x-mas this is....

---

Fine, I will answer your question for you.

You will be refunded your skill points, so it will be as if you had never had to train those skills in the first place. So NOT ONLY did you have the benefit of having 5/5 learning skills for your entire life until this point, but the time cost associated with training those skills will be removed - so it will be as if you never wasted any time training those skills to level 5 in the first place!

ALSO, the skill point refund is FAR greater than the 72 sp/hour nerf that you may experience. The proof?

Let us presume that you get a refund of 5.4 million sps. Divide that by 72 sp/hour to get 75,000 hours. This is the number of hours it would take for the 72 sp/hour nerf to "undo" the skill point refund. Given that there are approximately 8765 hours in a year (counting leap years), this means that it will take 8.5 years for this "nerf" to actually negatively effect your training speed.

---

Originally by: Useful Alt

---

EVE player was really more mature a few years ago, really

stop whining on the forum and talk with your wallet, if you even dare

for me, i don't care about this change, in fact no, i like the fact that i will be able to get "free" level to skill that i didn't want to train since i didn't want to do a remap for them

but yes IÆm also sad that i would not be able to do 2m sp every 30.5 days but it's minor for me

by the way, why people are asking for a free remap?

it's not like you will lose your current remap, the 14 points that is available for the remap wont move/change

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Originally by: Cornwalace

---

Q: What is the meaning of life?
A:

---

What is 6 times 7?

---

Originally by: I'thari

---

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

---

Q: *Your question here*
A:

---

What about my "72 sp/hour"?

---

Originally by: qaz zaq

---

I am trying to apply this logic to a RL scenerio: Let me see...

So I have a Job that pays $5.72/hour
New change: Job now pays $5.00/hour

A REFUND of earned points would be same as,

I have a bank account (sp in learning) of 5376000 points. The bank erases this amount and refunds(gives me the cash) which I can use anyway I want... Which I should as I earned every point.

I fail to see how dropping a pay rate from $5.72/hour to $5.00/hour is good and better for me, the wife and kids. If anyone out there, thinks it is, let me know. I want to hire you in RL... :-)

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Originally by: ROCK JOKK

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Since some of us have trained some of the Learning skills to lv2 or 3, but spent 4.5 mil isk, will we receive a partial reimbursement in skill points or isk?

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Originally by: Debir Achen

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Edited by: Debir Achen on 13/12/2010 03:45:54
Edited by: Debir Achen on 13/12/2010 03:45:15

Originally by: qaz zaq

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I am trying to apply this logic to a RL scenerio: Let me see...

So I have a Job that pays $5.72/hour
New change: Job now pays $5.00/hour

A REFUND of earned points would be same as,

I have a bank account (sp in learning) of 5376000 points. The bank erases this amount and refunds(gives me the cash) which I can use anyway I want... Which I should as I earned every point.

I fail to see how dropping a pay rate from $5.72/hour to $5.00/hour is good and better for me, the wife and kids. If anyone out there, thinks it is, let me know. I want to hire you in RL... :-)

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The analogy is broken. The ONLY thing your SP did was make your pay rate $5.72 per hour. You didn't get to take a cent of it home; all you did was re-invest it in your pay.

Now, they're making the pay rate a flat $5.00 hour, and giving all that "dead" investment back to you in a lump sum.

The RL scenario is that the Royal Amarr Investment Fund (the ONLY fund in town) says that rather than buying "investment shares" that up your pay rate to $5.72, everyone gets paid $5.00. But those who paid in the big bucks for a run at the higher rate get their big bucks refunded, but also get to keep any benefits from the $5.72 they used to earn.

Proposition 1: regardless of your current Learning skills now, it will take several YEARS into the future before you'll be in a mathematically worse situation after this change than before. This is trivially easy to prove.

Proposition 2: if you knew this change was coming, and ignoring the cost of buying skill-books, you would still not lose out if you proceeded to train advanced learning in your best skills. These skills convert 1:1 to ANY skill you wish to train (even those where you'd normally learn at reduced rate). Mostly, you only lose out here if you've remapped away from memory and then spent the last 2 weeks training basic learning skills (in which case, there are a bunch of friendly people in Jita who'd love to offer you a bargain).

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:13:19
Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:10:14
Also an interesting detail during the CSM/CCP meeting notes (Raw log)

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modify_or_Remove_Learning_Skills_%28CSM%29

Which was agreed upon or stated as an Important concern:

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Important Caveats
Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:

No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate.
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I believe that training at a rate of 72 sp/hr slower than now is "slower than their current rate????"


Hmm, interesting concept. Not going by their own rules and agreements with CSM.

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Originally by: CCP Prism X

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Originally by: Kelby

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Becuase of the way the "Learning" skill worked (with my current implants and remap) my Perception has dropped from 33 to 32.

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Yes, as far as I know that is the design we're sticking with.
I understand that's annoying but it's not in my power to change. Please don't turn this topic into a discussion on the design. I need results from the test not opinions on things I cannot change.

However, changing an integer in the update is not rocket science so this test is just as valid for + 12 as it is for +0< X < MAX_INT.

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:13:19
Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 05:10:14
Also an interesting detail during the CSM/CCP meeting notes (Raw log)

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modify_or_Remove_Learning_Skills_%28CSM%29

Which was agreed upon or stated as an Important concern:

----------
Important Caveats
Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:

No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate.
---------

I believe that training at a rate of 72 sp/hr slower than now is "slower than their current rate????"


Hmm, interesting concept. Not going by their own rules and agreements with CSM.

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Originally by: CCP Greyscale

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:facepalm:

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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Stating the facts and the truth about promises, etc is not QQ'ing. It is stating the truth and facts.

If CSM is actually advocates FOR players, and they stated that 'no one learns slower than currently', where is their response? As well as CCP's?

And standing up for something you believe is unfair as agreed upon, is not crying.

Also, trying to figure out why you actually care? Stop reading the forums if the content is not what you want to read.

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Originally by: CCP Greyscale

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:facepalm:

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 06:01:47
I checked my screen captures from beginning 2006 and at that time, Advanced learning skills had a max of 768000 (3x). I can't help before that.

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Originally by: Rommah

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Edited by: Rommah on 13/12/2010 05:55:52
Hello...
I already posted a topic on the issue here: Skill Compensation

Basically, I remember that learning skills used to be 5x...
I trained them while they were at 5x value...
A while back they were made into 3x to make it easier on new players...
Since I spent higher LP, then they were converted into 3x LP value.
Someone told me Im a bit confused. Now I question my memory...

Q: If Im right, will I be compensated for the old SP value?

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Originally by: Arkhelus

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Are we going to get a free remap aswell?

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Originally by: white kight

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....

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Originally by: northroop Grumman

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Ok, Have a simple question, and haven't seen an actual answer from CCP:

On one of my toons, I have remapped about 6 months ago and maxed out Precep. When the learning thing is complete, will I be able to remap or will I have to wait the rest of the 6 months to do so?

And also, in regards to this "but please CCP, acknowledge that you have hurt us. At least give us that." from a previous post. No person in a higher position (political or otherwise) can ever admit publically that they created a 'hurt' to someone, otherwise once admitted, they would have to fix it. And a Negative change is a negative change, period, end of discussion. Nothing else matters.

So, what about a real answer to my remap question?

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Originally by: Commander Kennedy

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Q: Will everyone be receiving a free remap on TQ like they did on Sisi?
A:

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Originally by: Ervol Libra

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Q: Will the neural remap counters be reset?

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Originally by: Qrtayl

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Q: *Your question here*
A:

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With the extra attribute points naturally come questions of distributing them. Some of us will be waiting a long time for a remap. It would make sense to allow us to distribute those points and not have to wait for several months for a remap if we recently did one. Particularly since we did not know to wait on a remap, that a major change was coming.
So...people are asking, did I miss the post where you addressed that concern?

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Originally by: Debir Achen

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The RL scenario is that the Royal Amarr Investment Fund (the ONLY fund in town) says that rather than buying "investment shares" that up your pay rate to $5.72, everyone gets paid $5.00. But those who paid in the big bucks for a run at the higher rate get their big bucks refunded, but also get to keep any benefits from the $5.72 they used to earn.

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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:-) Well, seems the CSM is not as 'powerful' or 'Important' as we thought.

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Originally by: white kight

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At the end of the day 72sp/h is such a small difference it isn't a huge game changing issue.

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Originally by: I'thari

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Aww, comeon we only ask to admit the truth, "it's by design, HTFU" responce is as good as any. That line in devblog saying that it's not necacarily final changes gives false hope so people simply asking for confirmation that you actually going to do this - that's all (since no one had balls to actually confirm this before).

Originally by: Debir Achen

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The RL scenario is that the Royal Amarr Investment Fund (the ONLY fund in town) says that rather than buying "investment shares" that up your pay rate to $5.72, everyone gets paid $5.00. But those who paid in the big bucks for a run at the higher rate get their big bucks refunded, but also get to keep any benefits from the $5.72 they used to earn.

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You forgot the part where everyone else gets their smaller investments back too and increase from , say, $4.00 to $5.00

Point is: while everyone else gets SP and learning speed refund, those who trained skills to 5/5 only get speed refund up to 5/4, everything else is just SP refund. So, it's not SP that will last for 8 years, it's less because everyone else will get those too. So "refund of traning speed loss" is only around 3M SP (difference between 5/4 and 5/5 for those who care to calculate).

Originally by: qaz zaq

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:-) Well, seems the CSM is not as 'powerful' or 'Important' as we thought.

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Mostly PR to cover screwups, as usual. At least this CSM achieved better results in publicity which is not bad either. I don't think any game company would actually listen to playerbase, even if that's select few representatives (at least you won't see any big changes because of it)... not to mention average forum trolls

And I would have loved if they released half-broken incursion (with all "features") two weeks ago - just for lulz. Really if "we didn't manage do make stuff work in time" is not a reason to declare "we decided to listen to community and commit to excellence" I don't know what is
IIRC, PI was delayed for exactly same reason... well, at least I had some fun thanks to P.I.POCALYPSE.

Originally by: white kight

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At the end of the day 72sp/h is such a small difference it isn't a huge game changing issue.

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Oh, so entire reason why people trained 5/5s in a first palce is not a "huge game changing issue"? Wonder how would people react had CCP decided to make 5/3 as new top learning speed

What is not a "huge game changing issue" is speed decrease with current 5/4 and +5s compared to new system - that is hardly noticable, but still fact. While a week of traning time a year is not something I wouldn't notice.

Plus it rewards lazy: it's like making all missions pay as L3 because it's so hard for a newbie to catch up with vets in moneymaking process and decreasing L4 and L5 payouts because CCP is unable to come up with new isk sink to compensate... which would be intresting to see, mostly because I don't run missions anyway so "who cares"

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Originally by: 548645156

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will all the char in the same account get the sp for each char

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It is done per character.
For example: You have one character on your account with 1 million learning skills, that character gets 1 million back. If another character on the same account has 5 million learning skills, then that character gets 5 million back.

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Originally by: Aele Deckard

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Originally by: 548645156

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will all the char in the same account get the sp for each char

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It is done per character.
For example: You have one character on your account with 1 million learning skills, that character gets 1 million back. If another character on the same account has 5 million learning skills, then that character gets 5 million back.

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Q: To expand on this; for those of us that have used spare slot on our account to train up one purpose alts (cynos, freighters, market, etc.) will we be able to transfer their learning SP to another character on the same account? (since the time spent training the learning was used at some point?). I ask since I doubt my one purpose alts need anymore training, and honsestly I wouldnt add any more skills to them anyways. Thanks.

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Originally by: Cornwalace

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[b]Q: What is the meaning of life?
A:

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Originally by: Aele Deckard

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I didn't read the whole thread, but I had hoped that there would be a way to transfer between chars on same account. Dreams Squashed.

Thanks for the response.

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Originally by: Cornwalace

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Q: What is the meaning of life?
A:

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What is 6 times 7?

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Originally by: Rommah

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Edited by: Rommah on 13/12/2010 05:55:52
Hello...
I already posted a topic on the issue here: Skill Compensation

Basically, I remember that learning skills used to be 5x...
I trained them while they were at 5x value...
A while back they were made into 3x to make it easier on new players...
Since I spent higher LP, then they were converted into 3x LP value.
Someone told me Im a bit confused. Now I question my memory...

Q: If Im right, will I be compensated for the old SP value?

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.

Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

Originally by: CCP Stillman

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Please stay on topic guys, we're doing this to offer people who might have questions about the actual deployment to get some answers. If you want to discuss 20vs19, free remap or no free remap, removal or no removal, please take that to the dev-blog thread. Everything you've been discussing so far has been done to death in the other thread.

Thanks

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Originally by: Raven Seldon

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Q: Is there a time limit to redistribute your SP's?

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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Maybe provide a link to the Dev Blog discussion please?

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Originally by: Khalia Nestune

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For those who are still *****ing about the math, try a real-math real-life example:

Your job pays $27.72/hour. Your work has now changed it to $27.00/hour. In return, they give you a tax-free bonus of $5,376,000.

I would take that IN A F*CKING HEARBEAT.

Even further, you are *only* "losing" your 72sp/hour if a) you trained the skills to 5/5 and b) have a +5 implant AND c) you are actually training a skill that uses those attributes.

If you're still complaining, you're an idiot.

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Originally by: qaz zaq

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Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 10:47:11

Originally by: Khalia Nestune

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For those who are still *****ing about the math, try a real-math real-life example:

Your job pays $27.72/hour. Your work has now changed it to $27.00/hour. In return, they give you a tax-free bonus of $5,376,000.

I would take that IN A F*CKING HEARBEAT.

Even further, you are *only* "losing" your 72sp/hour if a) you trained the skills to 5/5 and b) have a +5 implant AND c) you are actually training a skill that uses those attributes.

If you're still complaining, you're an idiot.

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Nice work up. But, in reality there is one point I would say differently: There is not a Bonus, it is a reimbursement because they took away your house.

And also, I notice in your comments that you even admit, they are losing the 72 sp/hour? I ask, what are you losing? Anything?

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Q: *Your question here*
A:

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Originally by: cordy

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Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.

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Originally by: Industrial Pirate

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Do they transfer with char?
Does this include 100k SP given for that..er... ''longer''... DT in May ?

Thanks

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Originally by: Alakazam

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Q: Will this give me a cheaper clone? If unallocated skillpoints isn't included in total skillpoints count?

ie. I have 10M sp, 5M is learning skillpoints >> I need a 12M clone.
After patch I have 5M skillpoints. >> I only need a 6M clone?

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Originally by: Im Blue

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Q as my attributes are being reduced at what point will i slow down my training speed? will it be the next time i change or add a skill or will it be the start or end of the downtime

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Originally by: Alakazamthe example: I have 10M sp and a 9M clone contract
5M sp is taken out of skillpoints, thus I have 4M sp and a 9M clone contract. Is this a correct assumption?
[/quote

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Yep, what ever your clone is it will stay that way unless you alter it.

Originally by: Im Blue

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Originally by: Im Blue

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Q as my attributes are being reduced at what point will i slow down my training speed? will it be the next time i change or add a skill or will it be the start or end of the downtime

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didnt see an answer to this, can i get one please?

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Originally by: Veebring Greetings

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Q. Are the reimbursed SP redistributable between the chars on one account or are they strictly per character?

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Originally by: Keira Matrix

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They've already answered this one. It's strictly per character.

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Originally by: Veebring Greetings

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Originally by: Keira Matrix

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They've already answered this one. It's strictly per character.

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Mmm I read the OP but don't see it. And redistribution was possible with the free SP back from the extended DT.

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Originally by: Mike deVoid

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Edited by: Mike deVoid on 12/12/2010 22:45:32
Thought I'd post this as someone was asking about training speed

Some quick number crunching for everyone curious.

Present (5/5 learnings +5 implants):
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (primary): 33pt.
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (secondary): 26.4pt.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2772 SP/hour.

Present (5/4 learnings +5 implants):
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (primary): 31.9pt.
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (secondary): 25.3pt.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2673 SP/hour.

Future ([bright or not] +5 implants):
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (primary): 32pt.
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (secondary): 26pt.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2700 SP/hour.

So *if* you have trained to 5/5 then your maximum possible rate drop by 72 sp/hr at most as this assumes you wear your +5 implants all the time. Because of the 5.376,000 SP reimbursement you won't feel any nerf for a minimum of just over 8.5 years. That figure drops by about 1 year for each Advanced Learning you only put to lvl 4.

For 5/4 and below, it's a boost.

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Originally by: s3v

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So is there gonna be remap? or do i have to train evemon planned skills with those default 20/20..... if so my training slows down for next 6 months when i can have remap :(.

Obv what i readed earlier, that the earlier remap stays but u will have extra atributs just flowing in the remap pool ?

woot woot :S

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Originally by: adrobomb

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Unfortunetly for those that did put in the effort of training everything to level 5 with the long term goal of gaining advantage over those who hadn't (a benefit that actually takes several years to pay off), have not only had that taken away, but have had their immediate training speed reduced, clearly a nerf for those people. I for one am not happy, but its not like its the only unfair playing field in EVE. CCP have failed to address some other glaring inequities so i don't see them really caring about those losing out on this one either, and of course those who hadn't trained those skills, have now had their laziness rewarded and any learning speed disadvantage removed, and they will no doubt be singing CCP's praises loudly enough for CCP to ignore the ones who are clearly being penalized.

Disappointing but typical....

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Originally by: Amy Elteam

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Q: Are the skill books being completely erased from existence? If I somehow managed to figure out some loophole in this erasure process would they even be able to exist in the new eve universe?

Say I want to own some copies for posterity.

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Originally by: Kuntakinte NL

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Q: can we have 5 mil free sp for beeing awesome? Just like on SiSi

(and give me an extra 5 for mentioning it?)

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Originally by: Im Blue

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Q as my attributes are being reduced at what point will i slow down my training speed? will it be the next time i change or add a skill or will it be the start or end of the downtime

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Originally by: Veebring Greetings

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Edited by: Veebring Greetings on 13/12/2010 12:50:28
Q: Are the reimbursed SP redistributable between the chars on one account or are they strictly per character?

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Originally by: Amy Elteam

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Q: Are the skill books being completely erased from existence? If I somehow managed to figure out some loophole in this erasure process would they even be able to exist in the new eve universe?

Say I want to own some copies for posterity.

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Originally by: Black998

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Do we get a free attribute remap?

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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Guess what I'm wearing.

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Q: *Your question here*
A:

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Originally by: ShadowStar90

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Q: How long can we hold Skill Point Pool until add to old skillbook?

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Originally by: Bel Rigean

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Q: *Your question here*
A:

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Q: Will it hurt?

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