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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.12 16:56:00 -
[1]
Wall Street Journal Article
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
What steps should CCP take to tone down the hateful eliminationist imagery that can trigger troubled individuals to commit terrible acts of violence like this one?
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
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Rytlock Thackaray
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Posted - 2011.01.12 16:58:00 -
[2]
Too soon.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:03:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Rytlock Thackaray
Too soon.
Conventional Wisdom says no.
So does the New York Times.
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:04:00 -
[4]
It's not just games, films are just as bad.
So what's the answer, a nanny state nothing above a PG rating?
You won't stop someone going off the rails if they are that way inclined. If it was not that it would probably be something else.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Forum Guy
It's not just games, films are just as bad.
So what's the answer, a nanny state nothing above a PG rating?
You won't stop someone going off the rails if they are that way inclined. If it was not that it would probably be something else.
Don't forget news and political speeches. The people in charge of national defence also teached me how to kill in various techniques and weapons, so there is plenty of blame to go around if you start to dig deep enough. Ultimately it is the guy who does the deed who carries the blame.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:07:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 12/01/2011 17:07:37
This thread makes me want to go "off the rails"...ffs. 
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Shintai on 12/01/2011 17:09:24
And he is a Palin support, etc. Maybe he was also a verizon customer. McD customers. Actions from those companies?
Problemsolving is simple:
No guns.
Free and broad psychriatic help(sp?). Instead of pills that makes everything worse or not helping.
More equal society. Rather than the economic "casts".
The lack of options makes people aggressive.
Anyway, this thread will burn :P
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Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
Someone needs a life, stat!
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SkinSin
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:09:00 -
[9]
Don't forget that the bloke was a man and most violent crimes are committed by men. Odds were stacked against him really.....
What a stupid topic.
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Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:14:00 -
[10]
Tuscon shooter likes orange juice. Action by Tropicana necessary?
This makes me wonder how many juice lovers out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
Should beverage companies such as Tropicana be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind FDA regulations?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope Tropicana does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
________
45 minutes & 720 clicks per six hours.
3 hours & 2,880 clicks per day.
21 hours & 20,160 clicks per week.
4 days & 89,280 clicks per month.
For the love of God, CCP. Fix PI. |
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:16:00 -
[11]
Wrong forum.
Bad taste.
0/10
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Joss56
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
You can be persuited for saying to someone in forums to go him self suicide and so, why those companies exploiting violence to make money are not concerned?
They must take conscience that they can't do whatever they want no matter how.
Something that i found realy chocking in this game is how scam and grieffing forms are multiple and never sanctioned, could even say they are encouraged when you read some posts with dev's comments.
The only way to get them responsable is that law adpts to the interet environement that is now everywhere and even rules some peoples lifes. Whenever their wallet gets touched or the Direction personnel, they act, and the sanctions must be realy heavy.
You can't avoid some fools actions, but you can prevent and discourage them.
(sry for my poor english)
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"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Ashlar Maidstone
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:22:00 -
[13]
As far as a "Ticking Time bomb" would be concerned, I doubt there be that many if any at all. We are a community world wide and unless someone were to do something of this nature again, and then try to post on a forum such as here, and pore out their personal problems for all to see, then I would worry for my own safety.
There's been debates if online games or communities would lead or have a part in violence world wide, I believe it may but in a small minute way be a contributing factor, but still that idea is still being debated on and the jury is still out.
I myself can only hope and pray for the victims of this incident and godspeed them on their recovery, and that we as a community share in the loss of a little 9 year old who's life was tragically cut off.
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
Syndicate.
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Culmen on 12/01/2011 17:25:50
OK, first we got people blaming the Tea Baggers
Now their blaming video games.
Next they will be blaming Islam.
Can't we just all agree that there exist crazies who kill people because they are crazy?
And not because of any particular scape goat.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Wikus VanDerSer
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Wall Street Journal Article
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
What steps should CCP take to tone down the hateful eliminationist imagery that can trigger troubled individuals to commit terrible acts of violence like this one?
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
I don't really understand your point OP. The perp does not play EVE. Implying that playing EVE constitutes dangerous behaviour for people is as silly as saying that watching V for Vendetta amounts to me wanting to blow up Big Ben.
Your argument or assumption that CCP can or should prevent further bloodshed is even more bizarre. The underlying nature of the game is not just to 'blow up ****', though some prefer that path. That still doesn't mean that it will trigger EVE players to become a socio or psychopath. So really, before you write on the forums with such a dumb thread, think and use a brain. |
RaTTuS
BIG
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:28:00 -
[16]
1) Wrong Forum
2) it's a load of guff
3) what hate do you see on eve-o ?
4) ???
5) profit
--
Join BIG
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Dultas
Angels Of Death EVE
Free Worlds Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:32:00 -
[17]
I'll tell you who I blame, the shooter, end of discussion.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:33:00 -
[18]
Chances that an Eve player goes off the deep end are slim to none as we actually get to let of steam in game, no other game has the same tears:time ratio.
According to the article he was playing some imperialistic conquest browser game so calling him an online gamer is stretching it ..
No go back under your bridge.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dultas
I'll tell you who I blame, the shooter, end of discussion.
But c'mon, he probably wasn't breast-fed enough as a child, got razzed regularly about his global warming/global cooling/global climate change/biodiversity rants, and was fired unfairly from his last job. Seriously, you can't blame the guy that actually picked up the gun. After all, nobody is responsible for ANYTHING they do nowadays, amirite?
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Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:38:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:46:45
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
2.he went to school and dropped out
3.he had trouble getting a job and keeping it
4.he did not have many friends
5.he played mmos
6.he posted on forums and youtube
7.from his interaction with people, he was understood to be outside the norm .
8.he was angry at Giffords for some reason.
Edit: Oh no. i share all the traits in the list except nos. 1 and 8. I should be very careful!
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
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Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
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Joss56
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Borun Tal
After all, nobody is responsible for ANYTHING they do nowadays, amirite?
This is the real problem. And whenever some "guilty" is found, he's "guitly" in proportion to his $$$ ability.
Makes me sick how many people close theire eyes and do like everything is fine, until someone close enough or his own family gets murdered.
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"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
2.he went to school and dropped out
3.he had trouble getting a job and keeping it
4.he did not have many friends
5.he played mmos
6.he posted on forums and youtube
7.from his interaction with people, he was understood to be outside the norm .
8.he was angry at Giffords for some reason.
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
It has to be MMOs of course as they're getting the blame.
After all the press knows best 
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Heimdal Galplen
Minmatar
Forced Entry Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:42:00 -
[23]
I almost never post on these here forums, but for this one I have to: OP needs to DIAF
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
Awesome, another veiled anti-gun post...
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Rovan Stargazer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:46:00 -
[25]
He was playing games, surely that is the reason he went on a killing spree. Me as a EvE player will probably go on a boat with a fireworks and anchor. Then i will throw my anchor on some other boat with people in it, and start screaming HAHA YOU'R SRAMBLED and start firing rockets on that boat.
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Goldman Suchs
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:48:00 -
[26]
To the OP: Sir, you may have the right to be a d***, but that does not mean you need to exercise that right.
Also, DIAF.
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Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:49:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:50:30
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
Awesome, another veiled anti-gun post...
Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).
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Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:51:00 -
[28]
Moved from General Discussion to OOPE.
Navigator
Senior Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).
Guns aren't used to fix democracy. They're used to create, preserve and defend it.
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Orpheus Terminus
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:58:00 -
[30]
One can infer if they only scratch the surface a tiny bit that he played EVE and it was EVE that made him a paranoid schizophrenic.
1. He talked about how how money had no real value unless backed by real life tangible equities such as gold or silver.
He was clearly talking about ISK and its relation to PLEX.
2. He spoke about conscious dreaming.
Sounds like hallucinations to me, a lot like flying around in space on a computer for to long and becoming confused.
3. He tried to make friends with someone with pink hair at his community college who later criticized him.
Clearly obsessed with the new character creator's hair options and his mind crumbled when CCP delayed it's implementation causing him to become confused with real life.
CCP is by connection responsible for the attempted assassination of a US congress woman. The only ration response is to view this as what it is. A declaration of war against the United States by Iceland.
Put your **** faces on boys. This is going to be a massacre.
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Iraherag
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:04:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Iraherag on 12/01/2011 18:05:08
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Wall Street Journal Article
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
What steps should CCP take to tone down the hateful eliminationist imagery that can trigger troubled individuals to commit terrible acts of violence like this one?
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
I'm sure he did a lot of other things too.
Like driving a car, drinking water, watching TV, eating burgers, ...
Should anyone providing any of this be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society too?
There are literally millions of people gaming every day without riotting on the streets...
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:11:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 12/01/2011 17:25:50
OK, first we got people blaming the Tea Baggers
Now their blaming video games.
Next they will be blaming Islam.
Can't we just all agree that there exist crazies who kill people because they are crazy?
And not because of any particular scape goat.
One thing I think we can all agree on is that giving him a gun was not the best of things to do with his background
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Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:11:00 -
[33]
oh you are right.
the american civil war was a democratic war.
genocide of the American Nations was spreading democracy.
every instance where guns are used on domestic soil is to further safeguard democracy.
The truth is guns can no sooner keep the government in check than the collective efforts of a nation's media. But guns aren't even the most important issue. The real fears are from without, and it is through fear that democracy is suppressed.
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Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Keta Fraal
oh you are right.
the american civil war was a democratic war.
genocide of the American Nations was spreading democracy.
every instance where guns are used on domestic soil is to further safeguard democracy.
The truth is guns can no sooner keep the government in check than the collective efforts of a nation's media. But guns aren't even the most important issue. The real fears are from without, and it is through fear that democracy is suppressed.
Guns rock, no doubt about that
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Calvin Firenze
Minmatar
Caeli Veredictum
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:44:00 -
[35]
Sadly, the media will take any aspect of a person's life and blow it out of proportion. They'll do it subtly as in this case. They won't come right out and say "his gaming life made him a violent person" but they will flaunt the fact that he was a gamer and point you to the conclusion they want you to draw.
I'm sure there are plenty of people in eve that you would consider to be "ticking time bombs." More often than not, these people are just angry with the establishment or whatever it is that bothers them. Most of them are not going to act on their impulses and go on a shooting spree. When they do, you can be sure the media will look for something to blame. "Man goes on a shooting spree, sources say he plays Eve Online; a game that encourages violence and backstabbing within its own community."
Gaming companies should not be held responsible for any acts of violence committed by so called "marginal members of society." Violence has been around for thousands of years, long before any gaming industry came into being. If an individual has certain proclivities for violence, games are not going to influence that any more than anything else in the world.
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
some people need to have the stupid beaten out of them
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:40:00 -
[36]
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...
OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:42:00 -
[37]
The sky is falling!
Delenda est achura. |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:46:45
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
2.he went to school and dropped out
3.he had trouble getting a job and keeping it
4.he did not have many friends
5.he played mmos
6.he posted on forums and youtube
7.from his interaction with people, he was understood to be outside the norm .
8.he was angry at Giffords for some reason.
Edit: Oh no. i share all the traits in the list except nos. 1 and 8. I should be very careful!
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
You forgot to add prescribed psychotropic drugs and not taking said psychotropic drugs.
Now crawl back under the bridge and the same goes for the OP 
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:44:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 12/01/2011 19:46:08
If anything I got the impression that the emotional release he got from venting on forums in an anonymous fashion actually kept him on the razors edge of sanity. It's when he actually mingled with real people face to face is where it all seems to have went to crap. So blame the people in his daily life for ingnoring the signals of a very disturbed man and not trying to get him help.
Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...
OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:47:00 -
[40]
Earth 2025 caused a massmurder.  I played that game, the only thing it caused was a slight aversion to asian botrunners.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:50:30
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
Awesome, another veiled anti-gun post...
Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).
No need to fix what isn't broken.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:50:30
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:
1.He owned a gun
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.
Awesome, another veiled anti-gun post...
Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).
No need to fix what isn't broken.
Blame the mass media for painting the picture to our global neighbors that it is broken. Much like the completely biased reporting done so far on this story.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Blame the mass media for painting the picture to our global neighbors that it is broken. Much like the completely biased reporting done so far on this story.
Nothing biased in the news over here so far
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...
OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.
Anyone with the least shred of intelligence will agree that this 'digging for reasons' thing, when proceeding to single out small single and oft questionable contributing factors, is proposterous. As a large part of this forum's patronage is suitably intelligent, we all end up thoroughly beating a long-dead horse over a recent serious incident, which I find tasteless and inconsiderate to the situation. So no, it does not need to be discussed, not every single time **** like this happens. Its not like the world press is going to get sensible because we proceeded to bash said dead horse on some obscure game forum again this time around.
I maintain that the only purpose served by this thread is that the OP is wallowing is his 'success'.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vak'ran
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...
OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.
Anyone with the least shred of intelligence will agree that this 'digging for reasons' thing, when proceeding to single out small single and oft questionable contributing factors, is proposterous. As a large part of this forum's patronage is suitably intelligent, we all end up thoroughly beating a long-dead horse over a recent serious incident, which I find tasteless and inconsiderate to the situation. So no, it does not need to be discussed, not every single time **** like this happens. Its not like the world press is going to get sensible because we proceeded to bash said dead horse on some obscure game forum again this time around.
I maintain that the only purpose served by this thread is that the OP is wallowing is his 'success'.
One of those 'not in my backyard' types I see. Way to reach out and help someone. Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Blame the mass media for painting the picture to our global neighbors that it is broken. Much like the completely biased reporting done so far on this story.
Nothing biased in the news over here so far
Of course!
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...
OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.
Anyone with the least shred of intelligence will agree that this 'digging for reasons' thing, when proceeding to single out small single and oft questionable contributing factors, is proposterous. As a large part of this forum's patronage is suitably intelligent, we all end up thoroughly beating a long-dead horse over a recent serious incident, which I find tasteless and inconsiderate to the situation. So no, it does not need to be discussed, not every single time **** like this happens. Its not like the world press is going to get sensible because we proceeded to bash said dead horse on some obscure game forum again this time around.
I maintain that the only purpose served by this thread is that the OP is wallowing is his 'success'.
One of those 'not in my backyard' types I see. Way to reach out and help someone.
No, one of those that is disgusted by people made to cater to the whims of certain kinds of trolls, such as the OP.
But go on beating the dead horse while the OP chuckles, helping absolutely nobody. I will stop bothering your improvements of society by means of the EVE-O forum while you continue to entertain those of ill taste.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vak'ran
No, one of those that is disgusted by people made to cater to the whims of certain kinds of trolls, such as the OP.
But go on beating the dead horse while the OP chuckles, helping absolutely nobody. I will stop bothering your improvements of society by means of the EVE-O forum while you continue to entertain those of ill taste.
So if you have no interest in trying to form a valid discusion of why people go off the deep end and and what could we as a society do about it along with the unfortunate misconceptions like the report the op linked(even though the op is a troll) that further alienate people who need help then why are you bothering to even post? I mean you already said its a waste of your time yes?
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2011.01.12 21:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
No, one of those that is disgusted by people made to cater to the whims of certain kinds of trolls, such as the OP.
But go on beating the dead horse while the OP chuckles, helping absolutely nobody. I will stop bothering your improvements of society by means of the EVE-O forum while you continue to entertain those of ill taste.
So if you have no interest in trying to form a valid discusion of why people go off the deep end and and what could we as a society do about it along with the unfortunate misconceptions like the report the op linked(even though the op is a troll) that further alienate people who need help then why are you bothering to even post? I mean you already said its a waste of your time yes?
Because it disgusts me, and I feel very strongly about that. As much as you have a right to beat your dead horse, I have a right to voice my opinion about you doing so. I did, with the wish you lot would stop. You don't intend to, good for you, makes that I am done with it, so carry on by all means.
Just don't go and assume apathy on my end, you do not have nearly enough information to make such an accusation, making it uninspired mudslinging, another thing I feel strongly about, especially when directed at me.
As said, carry on if you so wish. I still feel you are not helping anyone and entertaining a misguided OP, but have said my piece in that respect.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 21:11:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vak'ran
bawww
Dude chillax. I trolled Zhim, he hit me with sarcasm, lulz were had. No need to take these posts so serious.
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2011.01.12 23:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Vak'ran
bawww
Dude chillax. I trolled Zhim, he hit me with sarcasm, lulz were had. No need to take these posts so serious.
Hey I'm chill, when I feel strongly about something i'm all businesslike about it 
I too wanna better the world, in my own way, one forum patron at a time 
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
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Ts'ao Ts'ao
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Posted - 2011.01.12 23:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).
Guns aren't used to fix democracy. They're used to create, preserve and defend it.
Democracy, freedom and equality..
correct?
So what about the congress womans freedom?
what about all those kids that die in those school shoot outs of days past, what happen to their freedom? and what did it perserve? nothing, infact it called a good part of the future generation.
No equality, so a poor guy who cannot afford a gun, is still equal to a guy who has a gun? yeah right
Sooner some sort of proper legislation comes into force that prevent any tom, **** or harry from owning a gun, there will always be this issue and many more will needlessly die
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 23:48:00 -
[52]
Edited by: baltec1 on 12/01/2011 23:48:21
Originally by: Ts'ao Ts'ao
Democracy, freedom and equality..
correct?
So what about the congress womans freedom?
what about all those kids that die in those school shoot outs of days past, what happen to their freedom? and what did it perserve? nothing, infact it called a good part of the future generation.
No equality, so a poor guy who cannot afford a gun, is still equal to a guy who has a gun? yeah right
Sooner some sort of proper legislation comes into force that prevent any tom, **** or harry from owning a gun, there will always be this issue and many more will needlessly die
TBH I do not see why anyone would be against a gun ban on people who have a history of violance/mental health issues.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar
United Systems Navy
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 00:16:00 -
[53]
What do Chocolate cookies taste like?
Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.13 00:26:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 00:26:56
Originally by: baltec1
TBH I do not see why anyone would be against a gun ban on people who have a history of violance/mental health issues.
"Mental health issues" could evolve to mean anything, and is too vague to base any law on. I don't know the laws of Arizona but in Texas there are certain specific mental conditions that are reported to the state and that forbid the purchase of a gun.
If Arizona has the same sort of law, which I suspect it does, then you can thank the Sheriff's office for not insisting on a mental examination in one of the many times they dealt with Loughner after his repeated death threats.
These people are dead because of the actions of one crazy person and the inaction and incompetence of Sherriff Dupnik's office.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.13 00:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
"Mental health issues" could evolve to mean anything, and is too vague to base any law on. I don't know the laws of Arizona but in Texas there are certain specific mental conditions that are reported to the state and that forbid the purchase of a gun.
If Arizona has the same sort of law, which I suspect it does, then you can thank the Sheriff's office for not insisting on a mental examination in one of the many times they dealt with Loughner after his repeated death threats.
These people are dead because of the actions of one crazy person and the inaction and incompetence of Sherriff Dupnik's office. And how there could be a scheduled public event for a Congresswoman and he didn't have even one officer present is beyond me.
The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.
As for the protection. You shouldn't need it to have meeting with the public in a first world western democracy.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.13 01:25:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 01:25:02
Originally by: baltec1
The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.
Unfit for the military and expulsion from college aren't legal standards for denying people their rights. But this man had a history of death threats and contact with the sheriff's department and that department didn't use any of those chances to mentally evaluate him.
Quote:
As for the protection. You shouldn't need it to have meeting with the public in a first world western democracy.
HPD posts an officer at city council meetings, and those people are a lot less of a potential target than a national congresswoman.
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Kalle Demos
Amarr
Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2011.01.13 01:41:00 -
[57]
This is why I think psychologists should make the rules, the way a child is raised determines 95% of their fate and future, games, media, movies etc barely act as a catalyst.
Its like alcoholics, they dont start drinking because they saw it on a movie and they donÆt drink because they are addicted either, it is usually because of something psychological same as people who find it ok to kill people (or animals).
Which is why it is stupid to have guns legal, when people can freely raise a kid bad who will grow up and do more harm than good and if they feel like it get a gun
Originally by: Kool StoryBro
<---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2011.01.13 02:13:00 -
[58]
Incoming wall of text
The guy is a total nut job. He could have gone out and pick axed someone. There is plenty of evidence coming to light that people knew he was psychotic. Arizona has a very liberal psychological hold policy. If someone feels that a person is mentally ill or suffering from or exhibiting some sort of psychosis they can be turned in and held for further evaluation. No one did anything. The sheriff down there failed miserably. They knew this guy was a nut and yet there was no metal evaluations done nor was anything put on his record thus allowing him to purchase a weapon in a gun store. The people around this guy failed. The sheriff failed. The psych reporting/holding ability, which I repeat is very liberal in AZ failed. Failed because, like most of these situations, the people in the direct "know" did jack ****. There are people who report other people to social services for having a fat kid and claim it to be child abuse but no one reported this nut job? Or if they did, the sheriff failed miserably.
Speech, nor games, nor anything should be squashed because some nut job can't control him/herself. Miss Piggy from Seseme Street drive me bat **** crazy. But I don't go around slaughtering pigs or shooting people.
In closing, free speech does not necessarily give one the right to say absolutely anything. There is a line between free speech and common sense and decency. One can not yell "fire" in a movie theater. Some would argue free speech. There's a reason why you can't. It wasn't speech of anyone that spurred this senseless act of violence. It wasn't left or right. It wasn't Sarah Palin. It was mental disease. Period!
0/ Herr. Long time no see.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 02:52:00 -
[59]
Maybe we can all hold hands and love eachother.
People need to accept there will always be insane people.
No matter what you do, situations will arise that foster their mentality. Even without guns, films and videogames, you can feel excluded from society, angry about your situation and that everyone is against you - driving you to violent action. Violence is one of the most natural human functions.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.13 03:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: TimMc
Maybe we can all hold hands and love eachother.
People need to accept there will always be insane people.
No matter what you do, situations will arise that foster their mentality. Even without guns, films and videogames, you can feel excluded from society, angry about your situation and that everyone is against you - driving you to violent action. Violence is one of the most natural human functions.
Violence is not the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.01.13 06:32:00 -
[61]
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]
 
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
_
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Boonaki
Caldari
Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
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Posted - 2011.01.13 09:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Akita T
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]
I'd like a test first, half the people that post on youtube should never own a gun.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.13 10:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 01:25:02
Originally by: baltec1
The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.
Unfit for the military and expulsion from college aren't legal standards for denying people their rights. But this man had a history of death threats and contact with the sheriff's department and that department didn't use any of those chances to mentally evaluate him.
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?
Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2011.01.13 11:23:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Akita T
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]
yeah, no
I don't think half of america is mentally qualified to operate a motor vehicle or computer, let alone a loaded firearm. The number of accidental gun deaths would be :boggle:
_____________________
Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.01.13 16:04:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
I don't think half of america is mentally qualified to operate a motor vehicle or computer, let alone a loaded firearm. The number of accidental gun deaths would be :boggle:
That's kind of the point... another similar experiment would be to take all warning labels off (nobody reads them anyway) and forbid frivolous lawsuits under punishment of death
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
_
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.01.13 16:17:00 -
[66]
Problem with guns is just...it's easy mode on.
It's remarkable hard to kill someone with a knife for example.
@Op : B.A. got a name for people like you.
-----
Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.13 17:18:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 17:21:22
Originally by: baltec1
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?
Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
Military recruiters and college counsellors are not qualified to give a medically recognized mental diagnosis, and no one should be denied their Constitutional rights based on the opinion of either. But the sheriff's department had plenty of opportunities to bring him in for evaluation and didn't, which I suspect is why he's so eager to shift the blame.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.13 17:47:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 17:21:22
Originally by: baltec1
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?
Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
Military recruiters and college counsellors are not qualified to give a medically recognized mental diagnosis, and no one should be denied their Constitutional rights based on the opinion of either. But the sheriff's department had plenty of opportunities to bring him in for evaluation and didn't, which I suspect is why he's so eager to shift the blame.
TBH it sounds like he is fed up with people going around shooting each other. He was also very ****ed because he was good mates with the judge. Simple fact is the guy was nuts enough for everyone to see it apart from whoever was in charge of giving him the paperwork for the gun.
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Firune Corodix
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:21:00 -
[69]
Human's are the ticking time bombs here, solution? Wipe out humanity. problem solved
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:32:00 -
[70]
People kill other people with non-guns all the time. People are making this about the gun because they are not satisfied with just making it about the person who did it.
People need to stop thinking they can change society with laws.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:34:00 -
[71]
People have been shooting at politicians for centuries, MMOs have nothing to do with it.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Akita T
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]
You assume that people start thinking about the consequences of their action and this does not happen often enough. They only the know they have the means to permanently shut up the person in front of them.
There are a lot of idiots on this world and a lot of people frustrated and angry for whatever reason. Giving them firearms would be the worst idea ever.
Quote:
Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:09:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vabjekf
People kill other people with non-guns all the time. People are making this about the gun because they are not satisfied with just making it about the person who did it.
People need to stop thinking they can change society with laws.
You honestly think he could have killed that many with a knife before getting dragged to the ground?
The man was mad and the gun helped him do a lot of damage.
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:21:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Quemist on 13/01/2011 23:21:45
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Jada Maroo
"Mental health issues" could evolve to mean anything, and is too vague to base any law on. I don't know the laws of Arizona but in Texas there are certain specific mental conditions that are reported to the state and that forbid the purchase of a gun.
If Arizona has the same sort of law, which I suspect it does, then you can thank the Sheriff's office for not insisting on a mental examination in one of the many times they dealt with Loughner after his repeated death threats.
These people are dead because of the actions of one crazy person and the inaction and incompetence of Sherriff Dupnik's office. And how there could be a scheduled public event for a Congresswoman and he didn't have even one officer present is beyond me.
The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.
As for the protection. You shouldn't need it to have meeting with the public in a first world western democracy.
No he was rejected from joining the army because he admitted to smoking pot. They test you a lot before joining. They take stuff like that seriously
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:37:00 -
[75]
weed turns people into killers! the crazy commercials were right!
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:49:00 -
[76]
lol yep, crazy pot heads
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:17:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
Yeah ...
But seriously, the news media is a bunch of trolls. The only people who believe in an actual connection between teenage violence and online games are the media and perhaps a few, naive online gamers.
Almost every teenager is playing computer games these days and one could just as easily blame puberty itself as the cause. But is anyone doing this? No.
The parents are to blame. Parents may not be made liable for the actions of their children beyond a certain age of their children, but that does not mean that the parents are innocent. If parents let their children play violent computer games and do not see to it that their children get out now and then to take part in other activities then it is not the fault of the games or their children.
Parents should be held liable for the actions of their children not only relative to the children's age, but also depending on other factors. I.e. if the children are still going to school, if they are living at their parent's home, and if they are having a job.
Banning the games is a quick solution, but it does not address the cause of the problem. Here politics make the gaming industry the scapegoat and lets the majority of the voters - the parents - live in bliss. Until it happens again. Before then will politics never do what is right, but only what is good for politicians.
--
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:32:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Wikus VanDerSer
Implying that playing EVE constitutes dangerous behaviour for people is as silly as saying that watching V for Vendetta amounts to me wanting to blow up Big Ben.
Funny, I get an odd tingly feeling and sweaty palms watching that bit of the film. Just think of all the good you could do for the world if parliament was full of politicians at the time when you blew up big ben and the scum who work in that building.
Now go watch the film again and remember that if you did it for real you'd be a hero
_______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:40:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Whitehound
The parents are to blame. Parents may not be made liable for the actions of their children beyond a certain age of their children, but that does not mean that the parents are innocent. If parents let their children play violent computer games and do not see to it that their children get out now and then to take part in other activities then it is not the fault of the games or their children.
Parents should be held liable for the actions of their children not only relative to the children's age, but also depending on other factors. I.e. if the children are still going to school, if they are living at their parent's home, and if they are having a job.
Banning the games is a quick solution, but it does not address the cause of the problem. Here politics make the gaming industry the scapegoat and lets the majority of the voters - the parents - live in bliss. Until it happens again. Before then will politics never do what is right, but only what is good for politicians.
Parents are not always to blame and I know this for a fact because my own parents where decent parents and hard working law abiding people that tried their best to bring me up the right way. I had other ideas and from early teens I was more than a problem child I was a total toe rag that thought school sucked and didn't bother going and thought drugs and booze where much more fun and doing all kinds of anti social and criminal behaviour.
Short of sending me into care my parents could do nothing to stop me I refused to listen to them or anyone else and whatever they tried whether it was punishment or trying to teach me what I was doing would cause even greater problems years down the line didn't matter I still did what I wanted to do, it wasn't until years later and my early 20s that I finally came around and stop my self destructive behaviour.
It always irks me when people blame parents because its not always the case.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:54:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
It always irks me when people blame parents because its not always the case.
From the sound of it did your parents let you take all the blame. They never thought it was their fault, but instead made sure that you knew who is to blame. Do you think that this is what parents should be doing?
I think that the parents are to blame.
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Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:06:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
It always irks me when people blame parents because its not always the case.
From the sound of it did your parents let you take all the blame. They never thought it was their fault, but instead made sure that you knew who is to blame. Do you think that this is what parents should be doing?
I think that the parents are to blame.
They where actually tearing their hair our with me, the only option they had was to disown me because literally nothing they or anybody else did changed a thing. I find it interesting how you can make judgments about a situation you know next to nothing about, you don't know me or my parents or what I put them through yet you claim to understand it all.
You can either believe my post and take it at face value or you can pretend to know about things you have no experience with, its up to you.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.14 02:03:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 14/01/2011 02:06:02
Parents are just another variable in the equation.
I do not want to get into the gun debate, but according to nation master most countries that report murders and have lower murder rates then the US, have approximately .034 - .04 percent lower homicide rate then the US. There are more important things to worry about then trying to take and keep away all the guns from 'normal' US citizens.
Yes this is an extremely sad occurrence, but the gun is not the issue. You can say that he could not have caused as nearly as much damage with a knife; and my response to that is, he could have caused far greater damage with a few chemicals that can be bought fairly easily.
EDIT: added a zero to the second number and added the link.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2011.01.14 06:25:00 -
[83]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 14/01/2011 06:31:33
Originally by: baltec1
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?
Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
So you¦re seriously saying it¦s okay for nutters like this hitting up some pimp for an illegal gun, while a good citizen should not be allowed to defend himself with appropriate force?
If just one aide had a concealed gun permit that little girl would probably still be alive.
Think about the children.
And yes, I¦m flaming so effing hard, because anti-gun law nuts like you just aren¦t able to grasp simple facts when they¦re outside of your ideology.
Thus a discussion rarely makes sense.
Ah, feeling better now.
______________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Vabjekf
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.14 12:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Vabjekf
People kill other people with non-guns all the time. People are making this about the gun because they are not satisfied with just making it about the person who did it.
People need to stop thinking they can change society with laws.
You honestly think he could have killed that many with a knife before getting dragged to the ground?
The man was mad and the gun helped him do a lot of damage.
A knife is not a very good weapon, a knife is a utility device which can be used as a weapon if you absolutly have nothing better to use. So no, probably not with a knife.
If someone is planning on going and killing a bunch of people, and tries to use something not well suited for it, then they are just being silly.
Lacking a gun you could make a bomb, or just corner people somewhere and attack them with a chainsaw.
Difficult you say? Anti-gun people have obviously never fired a handgun. Its actually quite difficult to hit targets consistently even a close distance away with out a good deal of practice.
In fact that he managed to get 6 people with only 3-4 shots each shows that he knew what he was doing and probably had a good deal of practice with a handgun. So you can not say that he just picked up a gun and went on a rampage. He spent time and effort getting good with his weapon of choice, which was his weapon of choice because he knew it. Any number of things are far more dangerous as a killing device with the same level of experience, such as household cleaning products, to someone who knew what they were doing with them, they would have been their weapon of choice.
The number of gun related deaths/crimes by people who actualy know what they are doing is extreemly small and minute. The vast majority are by people who do not know what they are doing, using illegally obtained weapons.
An incident like this is the same sort of thing as someone running a bunch of people down with a car. A car can be dangerous if you want it to be, so can a gun. And in fact plowing down a crowded sidewalk would probably get you a much higher bodycount than any sort of gun if you picked your time and place right.
What im saying is you need to separate incidents where someone is specifically setting out to kill people, you are not going to be able to stop those because people are smart and will always find a way to kill people.
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Djavo
Midas Tycho
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Posted - 2011.01.14 12:46:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Vabjekf
you are not going to be able to stop those because people are smart and will always find a way to kill people.
Very true, back in nam I lost my gun and I had to kill people with curly pig willies.
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Ultim8Evil
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.14 13:22:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Tuscon shooter likes orange juice. Action by Tropicana necessary?
This makes me wonder how many juice lovers out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
Should beverage companies such as Tropicana be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind FDA regulations?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope Tropicana does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
I lol'd
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.01.14 14:40:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 14/01/2011 14:40:45
Originally by: Vabjekf
Lacking a gun you could make a bomb, or just corner people somewhere and attack them with a chainsaw.
I can already see the streets filled with people with C-4 strapped to their chest and wielding chainsaws, because, you know, somewhere out there someone might want to blow me up, but I'll blow them up first ! That'll show em !
I'm fine with US people wanting to hang to their guns, but I also am glad we have different laws over here.
EDIT : I have actually fired guns and it's a piece of cake.
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Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:48:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
You can either believe my post and take it at face value or you can pretend to know about things you have no experience with, its up to you.
No, I do believe you and I also do have the experience. My parents were not perfect either and made mistakes, too. It does not mean that I, you or the parents have to take all the blame.
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Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:11:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
You can either believe my post and take it at face value or you can pretend to know about things you have no experience with, its up to you.
No, I do believe you and I also do have the experience. My parents were not perfect either and made mistakes, too. It does not mean that I, you or the parents have to take all the blame.
There is a huge difference between making mistakes and being completely responsible for the future behaviour of their children, ultimately parents are only one influence on a child's upbringing and things like the upbringing environment and siblings, teachers and the social culture during childhood.
Some parents are obviously to culpable but sometimes other people and circumstances are the cause and may not always be something the parents can influence or even be aware of, somethings can be so subtle that there is no way anybody could be reasonably be expected to recognise.
In some cases it may just be the way the child is and not down to any external influence and sometimes it is the parents fault I saw plenty of that to, friends I had where neglected and left to their own devices others ended up unable to have functional relationships because their parents set such a bad example with the relationship with the other partner but I still believe that its not always the fault of the parents.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:20:00 -
[90]
Edited by: baltec1 on 14/01/2011 18:25:52
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 14/01/2011 06:31:33
Originally by: baltec1
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?
Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
So you¦re seriously saying it¦s okay for nutters like this hitting up some pimp for an illegal gun, while a good citizen should not be allowed to defend himself with appropriate force?
If just one aide had a concealed gun permit that little girl would probably still be alive.
Think about the children.
And yes, I¦m flaming so effing hard, because anti-gun law nuts like you just aren¦t able to grasp simple facts when they¦re outside of your ideology.
Thus a discussion rarely makes sense.
Ah, feeling better now.
er..dude I said nothing about normal people not having guns, just the mad ones. Or are you saying all Americans are nutters waiting to explode, with chainsaws covered in bleach...and pot.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:24:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/01/2011 18:35:19
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
In some cases it may just be the way the child is ...
So you are saying that children should be held responsible at any age, because they may be spawns of pure evil?
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:48:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 14/01/2011 14:40:45
I'm fine with US people wanting to hang to their guns, but I also am glad we have different laws over here.
EDIT : I have actually fired guns and it's a piece of cake.
And where is over here? Using an example of somewhere with heavy gun laws that have shown no appreciable effect in europe, look at england. they got rid of most of their guns, and now they just have an anti-knife campaign. "get a life, bin that knife!". And i watched an english movie, where the main character getting a knife was considered him having some sort of serious powerful weapon there, going out to kick some ass~.
Its pathetic ;_;
Hitting things with a rifle at close to medium ranges is not that hard. But a handgun sure is even at close ranges of 25 yards or so. You have to develop a good consistent stance and trigger pull before you are able to be good and consistent at hitting things.
Random violent street gangs are going to get weapons elsewhere regardless. So you have to look at the standard every day citizen. The majority of problems in this case come from simply people being stupid. The problem with this is that people are not trained/taught how to handle a gun, but instead learn from watching movies, this is a problem with not enough gun education, not too many guns. Then you have the people who go crazy and want to kill a bunch of people, and as i explained you don't need a gun to get a body count, in fact focusing on guns could potentially lower your body count, getting creative with other methods would be much better. Then you have things like someone who shoots their spouse because they were cheating on them, but if you are inclined to kill someone in that sort of situation you are going to be angry enough to not think to go get your gun but will just pick up the nearest handy object and smash them.
No, really, the number of legitimate situations where, had there been harsher gun laws an incident would not have happened, are scarce enough that there are a great number of vastly more dangerous every day activities that people aught to be complaining about.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Vabjekf
And i watched an english movie
Because movies are a great yardstick to make real world comparisons from.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:54:00 -
[94]
They are in this case, since the movie is trying to create a believable atmosphere for the audience, the weight, importance, and significance which the movie asks you to place in a certain plot point should be somewhere around what the society which spawned it places on that thing.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:03:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Vabjekf
They are in this case, since the movie is trying to create a believable atmosphere for the audience, the weight, importance, and significance which the movie asks you to place in a certain plot point should be somewhere around what the society which spawned it places on that thing.
Because the USA has no knife crime.
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Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:09:00 -
[96]
So how exactly do the gun laws have no appreciable effect in the UK? I can go about my life with very little chance of being shot by an ex or by an enraged schoolkid and I don't have to worry about being shot walking down the street in a crossfire between a shop keeper and the crack head trying to rob him who have no experience or firearms training, I will likely never be shot by a cop who has pooped his pants after being attacked and fired off a whole clip but didn't actually hit the criminal he was shooting at.
People who support the gun madness in the US always claim that our laws make no difference when the reality is they do, most people in the UK will never even see a real firearm in person let alone be shot by one. Being able to go out and buy a gun would in no way enrich my life or give me any protection and I would rather take my chances at fending off an attacker that's waving a knife or baseball bat than a gun any day of the week.
The real issue in the US isn't the hardened criminals either the problem comes from the nutters or angry coworkers or jealous husbands or demented teenagers shooting up a school and that's the real cost of the gun madness, I mean c'mon the US didn't even get through the first month of the new year without a young child being killed in a mass shooting in a public place.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:56:00 -
[97]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Vabjekf
They are in this case, since the movie is trying to create a believable atmosphere for the audience, the weight, importance, and significance which the movie asks you to place in a certain plot point should be somewhere around what the society which spawned it places on that thing.
Because the USA has no knife crime.
The US has no term 'knife crime'. Some crimes involve knives, sure. But to call it 'knife crime' shifts the focus away from crime and towards the knife.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 20:05:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
So how exactly do the gun laws have no appreciable effect in the UK? I can go about my life with very little chance of being shot by an ex or by an enraged schoolkid and I don't have to worry about being shot walking down the street in a crossfire between a shop keeper and the crack head trying to rob him who have no experience or firearms training, I will likely never be shot by a cop who has pooped his pants after being attacked and fired off a whole clip but didn't actually hit the criminal he was shooting at.
And i can go about my life with very little chance of being shot by someone as well.
Im not sure where you get the idea of cops though. Our police are still walking around with regular old handguns. Your police have gone from walking around with wooden clubs to carrying assault rifles.
Quote:
People who support the gun madness in the US always claim that our laws make no difference when the reality is they do, most people in the UK will never even see a real firearm in person let alone be shot by one.
Thats the same in the US. Only in rural areas are you likely to see a gun. Which is the same in the UK actually.
Quote:
Being able to go out and buy a gun would in no way enrich my life or give me any protection and I would rather take my chances at fending off an attacker that's waving a knife or baseball bat than a gun any day of the week.
You don't get to legislate what people attack you with, only what you can defend yourself with.
In many places in the US its actually easier/less of a hassle to buy a gun on the black market than it is to go into a gun shop. Of course law abiding citizens dont do that, they go through the extra hassle of filling out paperwork and waiting for weeks.
Quote:
The real issue in the US isn't the hardened criminals either the problem comes from the nutters or angry coworkers or jealous husbands or demented teenagers shooting up a school and that's the real cost of the gun madness, I mean c'mon the US didn't even get through the first month of the new year without a young child being killed in a mass shooting in a public place.
Ladders kill more people each year than crazy people or jealous spouses. And again, premeditated murder does not require a gun even to be 'easy'. Killing someone who knows you would not be difficult at all, and if you were smart you would not be using something that leaves behind potentially traceable forensic evidence.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.14 20:06:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 14/01/2011 20:07:50
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
So how exactly do the gun laws have no appreciable effect in the UK? I can go about my life with very little chance of being shot by an ex or by an enraged schoolkid and I don't have to worry about being shot walking down the street in a crossfire between a shop keeper and the crack head trying to rob him who have no experience or firearms training, I will likely never be shot by a cop who has pooped his pants after being attacked and fired off a whole clip but didn't actually hit the criminal he was shooting at.
People who support the gun madness in the US always claim that our laws make no difference when the reality is they do, most people in the UK will never even see a real firearm in person let alone be shot by one. Being able to go out and buy a gun would in no way enrich my life or give me any protection and I would rather take my chances at fending off an attacker that's waving a knife or baseball bat than a gun any day of the week.
The real issue in the US isn't the hardened criminals either the problem comes from the nutters or angry coworkers or jealous husbands or demented teenagers shooting up a school and that's the real cost of the gun madness, I mean c'mon the US didn't even get through the first month of the new year without a young child being killed in a mass shooting in a public place.
Those gun laws in the UK, at best, create a drop in the homicide rate of about .03 out of 1000 population in the UK as compaired to the US rate. However grotesque these incidences are that type of decrease does not justify the massive undertaking that would be required to remove all guns from US citizens.
Homicide is the 15th leading cause of death in the US. There are much more severe things that resources should be funneled into then removing guns from the hands of the US population and people that think this solution is the correct course of action just show how unfamiliar they are with death&dying and the US culture.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.01.14 20:39:00 -
[100]
The UK managed to get through January without a mass shooting, even the whole previous year we only had one massacre and that guy owned his firearms lawfully.
I agree its to late to fix it in the US the damage is done you could never get even a fraction of the guns off the streets I just don't understand how you can defend and people always claim they can miraculously turn into Jason Statham and pwn anybody who attacked them with a gun with their own gun even though they have no combat training and pretty much every documentary I have seen shows that when people start shooting in self defense it either achieves nothing or ends up in a bystander getting hit, trained soldiers can have difficulty reacting quickly and effectively to a surprise combat situation until they gain a lot of experience but Steve from accounting thinks he can defend himself this way.
Even if you happen to be a bona fide green beret that served for 20 years and trust yourself to react would you have enough faith in a store worker that is scared out of his wits by an armed robber to be able to hit the robber and not accidentally shoot you or your family member as you fill up your car with petrol?
The same goes with the police, they are just as likely to hit their colleagues or members of the public than the criminal.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 20:50:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
The UK managed to get through January without a mass shooting, even the whole previous year we only had one massacre and that guy owned his firearms lawfully.
The UK is a lot smaller. Just how common do you think mass shootings are in the US?!
Quote:
I agree its to late to fix it in the US the damage is done you could never get even a fraction of the guns off the streets
You dont think there are russian guns floating around your black market as well? You are even more conviniently located for easy export ~_^
Quote:
I just don't understand how you can defend and people always claim they can miraculously turn into Jason Statham and pwn anybody who attacked them with a gun with their own gun even though they have no combat training and pretty much every documentary I have seen shows that when people start shooting in self defense it either achieves nothing or ends up in a bystander getting hit
A few things.
1. If someone is attacking you with something you want something that is at least equal (and ideally more powerful) to defend yourself with. The ideal situation is not being attacked in the first place, but if you are then you will use whatever means you have at your disposal to defend yourself.
2. I agree that if anyone wants to have a handgun for the sake of self defense they need to make sure they practice with it constantly, as ive said elsewhere a handgun with no skills to use it is potentially dangerous to yourself, as is a lawn mower.
3. I saw a documentary about how aliens helped build the pyramids.
Quote:
trained soldiers can have difficulty reacting quickly and effectively to a surprise combat situation until they gain a lot of experience but Steve from accounting thinks he can defend himself this way.
So he should just give up and wait to see if the attacker decides to spare him or not?
Quote:
Even if you happen to be a bona fide green beret that served for 20 years and trust yourself to react would you have enough faith in a store worker that is scared out of his wits by an armed robber to be able to hit the robber and not accidentally shoot you or your family member as you fill up your car with petrol?
All you are doing is illustrating why people should take their own defense MORE seriously and spend time training/preparing for it.
You seem to think we have a situation here where there are two possibilities.
1: Someone attacks you and you have a gun
2: nobody attacked you in the first place
That's not how it works.
Quote:
The same goes with the police, they are just as likely to hit their colleagues or members of the public than the criminal.
Well the idea is that they are trained well enough to handle situations, but yeah, unfortunately police are not always very skilled at their job, all the more reason to take defense into your own hands
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:00:00 -
[102]
Training is only part of it, you can spend months or years being trained and practicing how to handle a firearm but it cannot prepare you for actually having to use it in anger.
I would rather not place my life in the hands of a random stranger and would rather see them hand over the money and call the police.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:17:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
The UK managed to get through January without a mass shooting, even the whole previous year we only had one massacre and that guy owned his firearms lawfully.
The UK is a lot smaller. Just how common do you think mass shootings are in the US?!
You get them every single year, last year it seemed almost every month there was a mass shooting of some kind. The last school mass shooting we had in the UK was well over a decade ago.
Also knife crime is where you use a knife so it makes sense to call it a knife crime for the records. You cannot compare gun crime in the US to knife crime here, you have to go with knife crime vs knife crime statistics and the same with guns.
Also Also the only armed police are, well, the armed police. The every day bobby who make up the bulk do not carry guns or tazers. We do however still have mounted police who turn up at football matches and large rabbles of students
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:44:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
The UK managed to get through January without a mass shooting, even the whole previous year we only had one massacre and that guy owned his firearms lawfully.
The US is a larger country and there will be statistically more shootings per year than in the UK.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:53:00 -
[105]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
The UK managed to get through January without a mass shooting, even the whole previous year we only had one massacre and that guy owned his firearms lawfully.
The UK is a lot smaller. Just how common do you think mass shootings are in the US?!
You get them every single year, last year it seemed almost every month there was a mass shooting of some kind. The last school mass shooting we had in the UK was well over a decade ago.
Is that what your news is telling you? I suppose we can leave it to them to find every little incident and blow it out of proportion to emphasize how much safer you are that the government has disarmed you.
I assure you those are statistically few compared to the gang related violence which is simply not interesting enough to report on i guess.
Quote:
Also knife crime is where you use a knife so it makes sense to call it a knife crime for the records. You cannot compare gun crime in the US to knife crime here, you have to go with knife crime vs knife crime statistics and the same with guns.
So you see no connection with harsher gun laws in the UK and the "growing knife crime"?
A gun is a ranged hammer. Its a tool which applies kinetic force, nothing more.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:58:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Even if you happen to be a bona fide green beret that served for 20 years and trust yourself to react would you have enough faith in a store worker that is scared out of his wits by an armed robber to be able to hit the robber and not accidentally shoot you or your family member as you fill up your car with petrol?
A military specialist can have a trauma just like any other person. In fact, they are more at risk of a trauma than a civilian. The effect of a war trauma is however likely different than from a trauma a school teenager might go through.
Quote:
The same goes with the police, they are just as likely to hit their colleagues or members of the public than the criminal.
No. You can train your aim, but you cannot train for a traumatic experience.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 22:22:00 -
[107]
Edited by: baltec1 on 14/01/2011 22:26:55
Originally by: Vabjekf
Is that what your news is telling you? I suppose we can leave it to them to find every little incident and blow it out of proportion to emphasize how much safer you are that the government has disarmed you.
I assure you those are statistically few compared to the gang related violence which is simply not interesting enough to report on i guess.
Its hard to report on a mass school shooting if it doesn't happen. The simple fact is you get a number of these things year in year out. We don't.
Quote:
Also knife crime is where you use a knife so it makes sense to call it a knife crime for the records. You cannot compare gun crime in the US to knife crime here, you have to go with knife crime vs knife crime statistics and the same with guns.
So you see no connection with harsher gun laws in the UK and the "growing knife crime"?
A gun is a ranged hammer. Its a tool which applies kinetic force, nothing more.
No I see a culture in which guns are not wanted.
Lets see the US records for knife crime and UK knife crime before jumping to conclutions.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 22:57:00 -
[108]
So you honestly do not see how removing guns could cause an increase in other sorts of weapons being used? Why do we need to compare things to the US when im talking about 'knife crimes' both before and after the UK got strict on guns. According to some official survey or another (TAKP, i have no idea what that means) '25% of people know someone who has been a victim of knife crime'. I certainly dont know anyone who has ever been stabbed, or shot for that matter. I know of one relative who was stabbed once, decades ago.
Looking at guns in the united states again. The state with the highest rate of murder per capita has the STRICTEST GUN LAWS! If you look at the states with the lowest murders per capita most of them have very lax gun laws.
Its really a matter of responsibility. If you don't give people any, people will not be responsible. The best way to make someone safe with a gun is to give them a gun. Inform people of the weight of responsibility they have, and they will be much more responsible. Be a nanny state and don't be surprised if your citizens run around like children squabbling, only with more adult toys.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.14 22:58:00 -
[109]
Oh look! Another pointless internet gun arguement.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 23:09:00 -
[110]
And here are some interesting statistics, speaking of schools.
In the US, a 2007 survey showed that 7% of teachers report having been threatened by students.
In the UK, a 2007 a survey found that 16% of teachers HAD BEEN ASSAULTED within the last 2 years.
Maybe UK schools are so violent there are no notable violent incidents that contrast business as usual
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.14 23:17:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Vabjekf
And here are some interesting statistics, speaking of schools.
In the US, a 2007 survey showed that 7% of teachers report having been threatened by students.
In the UK, a 2007 a survey found that 16% of teachers HAD BEEN ASSAULTED within the last 2 years.
Maybe UK schools are so violent there are no notable violent incidents that contrast business as usual
In a survey compiled by me I found that %51 of the worlds population prefer Apples to Oranges....... FACT!
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 23:19:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Vabjekf
So you honestly do not see how removing guns could cause an increase in other sorts of weapons being used? Why do we need to compare things to the US when im talking about 'knife crimes' both before and after the UK got strict on guns. According to some official survey or another (TAKP, i have no idea what that means) '25% of people know someone who has been a victim of knife crime'. I certainly dont know anyone who has ever been stabbed, or shot for that matter. I know of one relative who was stabbed once, decades ago.
I also dont know anyone who has been stabbed. I do know someone who was hit by an RPG though.... Well bits of one.
Originally by: Vabjekf
And here are some interesting statistics, speaking of schools.
In the US, a 2007 survey showed that 7% of teachers report having been threatened by students.
In the UK, a 2007 a survey found that 16% of teachers HAD BEEN ASSAULTED within the last 2 years.
Maybe UK schools are so violent there are no notable violent incidents that contrast business as usual
Nothing to do with guns or knives. Its the explosion in the chav population and the fact the last government took away all power from teachers to disiplin these little twerps.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.14 23:21:00 -
[113]
Originally by: baltec1
Boring stuff
Yes but what does any of that have to do with the Apples Vs Oranges debate?
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.01.14 23:28:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 14/01/2011 23:30:13
Raw statistics mean nothing unless you have some context like the social and economic conditions of the different regions as those are a much bigger factor in the causes of crime and the types of crime committed than simply the availability of weapons.
Originally by: Vabjekf
And here are some interesting statistics, speaking of schools.
In the US, a 2007 survey showed that 7% of teachers report having been threatened by students.
In the UK, a 2007 a survey found that 16% of teachers HAD BEEN ASSAULTED within the last 2 years.
Maybe UK schools are so violent there are no notable violent incidents that contrast business as usual
Yep imagine how much better it would be if they had guns to
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 23:29:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: baltec1
Boring stuff
Yes but what does any of that have to do with the Apples Vs Oranges debate?
Nothing but I must vent because my glorious Hyperion just got fragged
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FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.15 01:08:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Dultas
I'll tell you who I blame, the shooter, end of discussion.
I blame Christianity.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.01.15 01:22:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Vabjekf
And where is over here?
In Amsterdam, with probably the highest crime rate in the Netherlands.
We had 16 murders last year in a city of 800.000 people.
Of course we get people getting robbed, knifed or otherwise assaulted, but even that is pretty rare. Someone getting shot is (luckily) still a major event here.
In the whole country (population 16 million) we had 170 murders in 2010.
Could be worse.
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Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Scorpyn
Warp Ghosts Omega
Spectres of the Deep
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Posted - 2011.01.15 01:40:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
...
...
...and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
I don't think I will ever understand this. An individual does something insane, and instantly lots of ppl start blaming others, anybody but the idiot who did it. Society, the government, film creators, film distributors, game creators, Sony, The Beatles etc. Nobody is safe from taking the blame from random idiots.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.15 04:23:00 -
[119]
He was just like your average Eve pirate!
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Zindela
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.01.15 05:16:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Wall Street Journal Article
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
What steps should CCP take to tone down the hateful eliminationist imagery that can trigger troubled individuals to commit terrible acts of violence like this one?
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
Short reply, No.
Longer reply:
Personally, I don't think that violent videogames have much of an effect on the human psyche. However, having said that, I'm not a psychiatric, and have never actually taken a psychology course. I am speaking from personal experience, and experiences with my friends. ALL of my friends, and I play some of the most violent games out there. The ones that encourage you to be a total *******, to lie, steal, cheat, your way to survive.
This could be influenced by the fact that we are above the general intelligence of the general population, and know the difference between real, and virtual, but I think it has more to do with other things. The only way games have influenced me in violent ways, has been to expand my knowledge about military tech, and possible future tech as well. I realize much of this is purely fiction, but I'm studying to be an engineer, and many of our discussions about the specific game are actually based around how it might be possible to actually implement the tech in the future.
If anything, games have furthered our curiosity into the unknown. I'm not advocating that people be incentivised (not actually a word, but I like the sound) to play games, but that games have become a medium for humans to expand on ideas, become more creative, and explore their own intellectual limits, purely from the perspective of their basement chair.
-------------------
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Guess what I'm wearing.
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Themanfromdalmontee
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Posted - 2011.01.15 07:47:00 -
[121]
Sadly some of the comments here from americans shows why sooo many people find them to be a bunch of brain washed special people with no apreciation of the world around them.
Now, in the UK our police do not carry guns, why because they don't need to on a day to day basis. They have stab vests because when you arrest someone, you are generally close range...
America needs fixing:
1) Removal of guns will not do anything sadly, too many in circulation. Removal of Ammo, might help, but would limit survial during a zombie attack..
2) Removal of anyone that spouts God's book says..*random offensive and non rational comment against someone that can't fight back*.
3) Removal of people who think movies are documentaries....I'm sure many scottish people climb down toilets just like in trainspotting!
I'm lucky all my american friends are sane, intellegent, well traveled and tend not to watch fox news other than to laugh.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.15 11:27:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Themanfromdalmontee
Sadly some of the comments here from americans shows why sooo many people find them to be a bunch of brain washed special people with no apreciation of the world around them.
Not really, it is simple psychology and human conditioning, in the same way calling yourself british, english and/or any other form of self labeling is conditioning. Obviously in America guns are something people grow up with and around in many states.
Originally by: Themanfromdalmontee
Now, in the UK our police do not carry guns, why because they don't need to on a day to day basis. They have stab vests because when you arrest someone, you are generally close range...
I'm not going to go into my opinion on firearms, but you must live in a different UK to me, because the main reason I believe police here do not need guns is because they are more interested in depriving law abiding people of their hard earned cash than dealing with dangerous criminals, I mean what are the odds of law abiding Joe Bloggs pulling a gun on a cop that is gonna fine him for not wearing his seatbelt?
Originally by: Themanfromdalmontee
America needs fixing:
Well no, the whole world needs fixing.
Originally by: Themanfromdalmontee
I'm lucky all my american friends are sane, intellegent, well traveled and tend not to watch fox news other than to laugh.
Well how lucky those Americans are to have your approval
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Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.15 11:37:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Riedle on 15/01/2011 11:37:50
Quote:
I'm lucky all my american friends are sane, intellegent, well traveled and tend not to watch fox news other than to laugh
So... did you ever stop to think that maybe your perception of AMERIKANS is therefore wrong? Nope. You kept up with your ignorant sterotyping of 310 million people because "that's what the Telly says".. amirite?
This despite all the people you know from America are sane, well traveled .
LOL You are going to some real lengths to keep your stereotyping alive!
good job ol chap!
I think that says all that needs to be said about your individual IQ.
I won't resort to slagging your fellow countrymen.
;)
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Ische Qou
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Posted - 2011.01.15 19:39:00 -
[124]
America needs more guns
If that congresswoman had carried a gun and some bodyguards, that perp might never have gotten a single shot off.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.01.15 19:43:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Ische Qou
America needs more guns
If that congresswoman had carried a gun and some bodyguards, that perp might never have gotten a single shot off.
Link a single creditable reference that shows a situation where a member of the public stopped or prevented a mass shooting by using a firearm themselves.
I wonder if there has ever been a single incident like that.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.15 21:20:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Originally by: Ische Qou
America needs more guns
If that congresswoman had carried a gun and some bodyguards, that perp might never have gotten a single shot off.
Link a single creditable reference that shows a situation where a member of the public stopped or prevented a mass shooting by using a firearm themselves.
I wonder if there has ever been a single incident like that.
Linkage
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.15 21:53:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Linkage
This link is made of pure win.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.01.15 22:14:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Originally by: Ische Qou
America needs more guns
If that congresswoman had carried a gun and some bodyguards, that perp might never have gotten a single shot off.
Link a single creditable reference that shows a situation where a member of the public stopped or prevented a mass shooting by using a firearm themselves.
I wonder if there has ever been a single incident like that.
Linkage
I never doubted robberies have been stopped but I want to see if armed passers by have ever stopped or prevented a mass shooting.
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2011.01.16 00:26:00 -
[129]
actually the shooting in az had 2 concealed cary civilians respond, the problem was they couldnt get a clear shot due to the crowd, and the crowd dogpiled him while he was reloading there are several other incidents
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm
then there was the Appalachain Law School shootings Most news articles say the students "confronted" or "tackled" the gunman. They neglect to mention that these students were armed. its considered a classic case of media bias against stories of armed citizens interfearing.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/13/national/main2466711.shtml (they are quick to mention that he was off duty, they fail to mention that he was out of uniform and carrying concealed. not a mass shooting more of a mass knife attack but still stopped by a armed citizen http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8J0MBOG2&show_article=1
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2011.01.16 00:36:00 -
[130]
also http://massbackwards.blogspot.com/2007/04/who-says-size-matters.html finially not a mass shooting stopping, however personally my concealed cary gun has prevented me from getting knifed in the stairway of my appartment, during the same year it allowed me to stop a deranged ex husband from harming his ex wife in a dennys. ( 9mm trumps skinning knife fairly well.) I can say for certain that I owe my life to the forthought of the founding fathers and to the state of missouri for allowing concealed cary.
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2011.01.16 00:56:00 -
[131]
I apologise for the wall of text however several studys done in by reputibal reaserchers in america have shown a net benefit in crime prevention from both the presance of guns and from concealed cary laws.
Bruce L. Benson, Florida State University, and Brent D. Mast, American Enterprise Institute, 'Privately Produced General Deterrence', The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001[3]
Florenz Plassmann, State University of New York at Binghamton, and T. Nicolaus Tideman, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, "Does the right to carry concealed handguns deter countable crimes? Only a count analysis can say", The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001[4]
Carlisle E. Moody, College of William and Mary, "Testing for the effects of concealed weapons laws: Specification errors and robustness," The Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001[5]
William Alan Bartley and Mark A. Cohen, Vanderbilt University, 'The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis', Economic Inquiry, 1998[6]
Florenz Plassmann, State University of New York at Binghamton, and John Whitley, University of Adelaide, 'Confirming More Guns, Less Crime', Stanford Law Review, 2003.[7]
Eric Helland, Claremont-McKenna College and Alexander Tabarrok, George Mason University, "Using Placebo Laws to Test 'More Guns, Less Crime'," The B.E. Journal of Economic Analysis & Policy, 2008.[8]
Carlisle E. Moody, College of William and Mary, and Thomas B. Marvell, Justec Research, 'The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws', Econ Journal Watch, 2008.[9]
ôI would ask gun control advocates one question: name a single place in the entire world where murder rates fell after gun control laws were passed.ö
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2011.01.16 00:59:00 -
[132]
http://polyticks.com/polyticks/beararms/liars/moreguns.htm interesting numbers
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:24:00 -
[133]
That must be a ****ty neighbourhood to live in.
-----
Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Intar Medris
Amarr
EntroPrelatial Vanguard
EntroPraetorian Aegis
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:24:00 -
[134]
Another video games are to blame thread. Please do leave your left wing bull**** at home.
I Make Forums For Corps And Alliances. 50 Mil ISK
See Example Forum To Get A Idea of What Your's Could Look Like
Example Forum |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:46:00 -
[135]
This guy would not have been shot if he had not interfered and had been carrying a gun.
So no, guns are not necessary to act but they can definitely help if the individual knows how to use them.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2011.01.16 02:12:00 -
[136]
Yes it is a very bad neiborhood, if your familiar with kansas city I lived aprox 3 blocks off of the paseao, its not exactly detroit, gary in or east st louis IL, but still a nasty area.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.16 18:24:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Intar Medris
Another video games are to blame thread. Please do leave your left wing bull**** at home.
Sorry to burst your partisan bubble but the anti-violent game movement was started and still primarily pushed by the Christian right
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.16 20:55:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Marcus Henik
Edited by: Marcus Henik on 16/01/2011 02:05:45
This site has some interesting numbers.
I saw some numbers that said over 30,000 die to gunshots every year in the USA. This means that America is more dangerous than the Vietnam war
I also found out that 12 died in the UK last year due to toasters
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:18:00 -
[139]
30,000 die in a year to firearms in the USA?
Seems high, but a very large % of them are young thugs killing other thugs over gang turf and drug markets. Violence in these areas tends to badly skew the data nationwide. Your average red-blooded NRA lifetime member tends to be far more responsible with firearms than the 'average American'.
States like New Hampshire or Wyoming that are mostly white and rural tend to have high rates of gun ownership, but relatively low rates of gun crime - go figure.
Sure, call me racist for bringing it up, but I get tired of people blaming stereotypical white American country boys and hunters for violence committed almost exclusively between gangs of minorities in the slums of LA.
If you could somehow take firearms away from these violence-prone racial groups - you'd see US gun crime rates crash overnight. Fact.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
30,000 die in a year to firearms in the USA?
Seems high, but a very large % of them are young thugs killing other thugs over gang turf and drug markets. Violence in these areas tends to badly skew the data nationwide. Your average red-blooded NRA lifetime member tends to be far more responsible with firearms than the 'average American'.
States like New Hampshire or Wyoming that are mostly white and rural tend to have high rates of gun ownership, but relatively low rates of gun crime - go figure.
Sure, call me racist for bringing it up, but I get tired of people blaming stereotypical white American country boys and hunters for violence committed almost exclusively between gangs of minorities in the slums of LA.
If you could somehow take firearms away from these violence-prone racial groups - you'd see US gun crime rates crash overnight. Fact.
Kinda what I have been saying. Gun controls so the nutters, druggies and criminals cannot buy them legaly. Are you not mad and law abiding? Sure have that 9mm.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:43:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 16/01/2011 21:50:06
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 16/01/2011 21:48:27
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
30,000 die in a year to firearms in the USA?
Seems high, but a very large % of them are young thugs killing other thugs over gang turf and drug markets. Violence in these areas tends to badly skew the data nationwide. Your average red-blooded NRA lifetime member tends to be far more responsible with firearms than the 'average American'.
States like New Hampshire or Wyoming that are mostly white and rural tend to have high rates of gun ownership, but relatively low rates of gun crime - go figure.
Sure, call me racist for bringing it up, but I get tired of people blaming stereotypical white American country boys and hunters for violence committed almost exclusively between gangs of minorities in the slums of LA.
If you could somehow take firearms away from these violence-prone racial groups - you'd see US gun crime rates crash overnight. Fact.
Yeah but it is typically the white nutter that does the mass shootings and add in the fact that there is rather larger rural black population that are also redneck hunters, kinda shoots your proposal in the foot.
EDIT: I also laugh at your thought that just because a majority of shooting deaths in the US are black on black crimes that this disqualifies white people as a violent race. That is just pure comedy.
EDIT 2: And Baltec, convicted felons have not allowed to buy guns legally for as long as I have been alive.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:49:00 -
[142]
Mind you, I'm not terribly upset if gangbangers are killing each other. Some would even say that is one of the upsides of the 2nd Amendment, as dead criminals are much cheaper and easier for the justice system to process.
I just get the feeling that Europeans think American 'gun nuts' and imagine the sterotypical NRA member, gun show frequenter, deer hunter. Then they cite high levels of American gun violence. But 'gun nuts' as you call them, according to FBI crime statistics - aren't the ones creating the violence.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:58:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Mind you, I'm not terribly upset if gangbangers are killing each other. Some would even say that is one of the upsides of the 2nd Amendment, as dead criminals are much cheaper and easier for the justice system to process.
I just get the feeling that Europeans think American 'gun nuts' and imagine the sterotypical NRA member, gun show frequenter, deer hunter. Then they cite high levels of American gun violence. But 'gun nuts' as you call them, according to FBI crime statistics - aren't the ones creating the violence.
This is a whole other discussion, but there are a good number of things that make those inner city citizens criminals that I quite honestly do not think should be illegal to begin with.
As for the not allowing 'druggies' to legally buy guns should only be accepted if alcoholics are also included in that bunch.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.16 23:47:00 -
[144]
There is something clearly wrong with America, and no one can deny that. You don't see killing sprees on a regular basis anywhere else, and there has to be a reason. But it's not about guns or politics, or any one thing. Even if people would like to believe that to simply the real problem. Americans are just generally aggressive and angry towards everyone and about every subject. It doesn't make for a healthy society. Some people snap under the pressure and just start shooting.
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.17 13:14:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 00:15:39
There is something clearly wrong with America, and no one can deny that. You don't see killing sprees on a regular basis anywhere else, and there has to be a reason. But it's not about guns or politics, or any one thing. Even if people would like to believe that to simply the real problem. Americans, on the average, are generally aggressive and angry towards everyone and about every subject. Moreso than any other country. It doesn't make for a healthy society. Some people snap under the pressure and just start shooting. All the gun worship doesn't help, either.
I think the world in general right now has the same problem, but it's greatly amplified in the US.
Are you sure about that? I mean, would your opinion on America change if you were shown to be wrong wrt America being unique as far as killing sprees goes?
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2011.01.17 13:26:00 -
[146]
"Oh no! One nut job does something crazy, that menas we must drastically alter our society and make laws that affect everyone else! Hurf Durf!"
Mainstream media is so ****ty I lack words... So is its followers for that matter.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.17 13:27:00 -
[147]
Finland has much stricter firearm regulations, and very low crime and corruption rates. Yet....
Here... Jokela, 2007. Eight dead.
And here too..Kauhajoki, 2008. 10 dead.
I guess that means those Finns are just sick, sick puppies at heart, right? (Well, they are - I'm dating one....but I don't think snobs in the UK can point the finger and chant "US bad, EU good", when this kind of stuff occurs in Europe as well.)
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Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.17 14:06:00 -
[148]
The most prolific serial killer of the modern era is from the UK.. lols
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Failccpfails
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Posted - 2011.01.17 14:51:00 -
[149]
OP is a normal moron...
You know this aint the only shooting that has happened in the last month right... they happen like everyday... this is only in the news because of the number of people... who gives a ****...
What I think 2 people die every second on the planet... omg 6 more big deal.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.01.17 15:36:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Finland has much stricter firearm regulations, and very low crime and corruption rates. Yet....
Here... Jokela, 2007. Eight dead.
And here too..Kauhajoki, 2008. 10 dead.
I guess that means those Finns are just sick, sick puppies at heart, right? (Well, they are - I'm dating one....but I don't think snobs in the UK can point the finger and chant "US bad, EU good", when this kind of stuff occurs in Europe as well.)
Germany has seen several schools turned into a shooting gallery, most European countries have but no one is trying to say they only happen in the US because they don't but the US certainly seems to have more than its fair share.
As for British "snobs" the people from the UK posting here are defending our gun laws as much as they are laughing at the gun madness in the US because they either cannot see or refuse to see what it costs them, several posters here claim that the laws in the UK are not effective when they clearly are.
It is no coincidence that three of the worst mass shootings in recent British history where carried out by people who held a firearms certificate.
Originally by: Failccpfails
OP is a normal moron...
You know this aint the only shooting that has happened in the last month right... they happen like everyday... this is only in the news because of the number of people... who gives a ****...
What I think 2 people die every second on the planet... omg 6 more big deal.
Tell that to the family of that little girl and the family of the other people where shot.
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Crazy Renegade
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Posted - 2011.01.17 16:46:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Crazy Renegade on 17/01/2011 16:51:34
I got an idea to resolve this kind of idiotic thinking. Lets shut off all the games, tv's radios, and other form of entertainment for about 5 years and see what happens. Will there still be scumbags out there doing despicable acts to others? What was the problem with people like Jack the ripper? Jeffery Dahmer or the uni-bomber just to name a few? Did they get their ideas from the media? Video games and tv and quite possibly radio didn't exist back when jack the ripper was killing people on two different continents. The uni bomber despised technology so much he didn't have any of it. As for Jeffery Dhamer who's to say what his malfunction was. People are who they are. If there is any blame to be placed, it should be placed on the scumbag that commit ed these despicable acts of violence and no one else.
With regards to this latest pile of dung. I unfortunately see him getting off on some BS insanity plea now that the case is going to be tried in the criminal paradise of libby land (i.e. CA a state where they blame society for crime vice the criminal as such they penalize the law abiding by immediately creating more ignorant laws.) because the federal judges in AZ don't want to try the case. I'd try it in a hot nano second then sentence him to death. Too bad the judges can't choose his method of execution anymore as I would have him hanging on the end of a rope where he belongs. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 18:08:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 18:13:30
Originally by: Riedle
Are you sure about that? I mean, would your opinion on America change if you were shown to be wrong wrt America being unique as far as killing sprees goes?
For every one in another country there's roughly 20 in the US. And things like school shootings are uniquely American.
It's not an attack against America, what i'm saying, it's just the facts. If people can't handle reality they shouldn't take it up with me.
If you take away the guns people will just use pipe bombs or machetes. The problem is with a society that creates angry, violent, people, and games or movies don't make them that way, they're just catering to what violent people who already exist want. And there's also plenty of people who enjoy violence as entertainment but that never crosses over into daily life.
Something about America causes it to have more angry people who lash out at the world around them. That is clear. If anyone can present another reason why that is i'll listen, but lets not pretend it's about access to guns, because guns are common in many other countries, and violent video games and movies are also distributed and popular in other countries, without this sort of trend. |
Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.17 18:45:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Riedle on 17/01/2011 18:45:46
Quote:
For every one in another country there's roughly 20 in the US. And things like school shootings are uniquely American.
School killings are not uniquely American. Just in 2010 China had multiple occurences of men doing mass killings in Chinese schools with knives. Many children killed.
Quote:
It's not an attack against America, what i'm saying, it's just the facts. If people can't handle reality they shouldn't take it up with me.
Yes, of course it is an attack on America. Be honest with yourself here.
And as well, you have not posted any facts - just hopelessly ill-informed opinion.
Quote:
If you take away the guns people will just use pipe bombs or machetes. The problem is with a society that creates angry, violent, people, and games or movies don't make them that way, they're just catering to what violent people who already exist want. And there's also plenty of people who enjoy violence as entertainment but that never crosses over into daily life.
Lol, yes and?
Quote:
Something about America causes it to have more angry people who lash out at the world around them. That is clear.
Umm.. No it's not. Not clear at all. What is clear is that they have a lot of media and the rest of the world watched what happens there, especially my fellow Canucks - like you.
Robert Pickton murdered almost a hundred women in BC prof. Is there something wrong with Canadians?
Quote:
If anyone can present another reason why that is i'll listen, but lets not pretend it's about access to guns, because guns are common in many other countries, and violent video games and movies are also distributed and popular in other countries, without this sort of trend.
I agree that it is largely not because of guns. What I am taking issue with is your premise that America has violence that is unique to them and your theory that Americans are especially more prone to violence that anywhere else.
You are simply another in a long line of leftist Anti-Americans.
Hardly original or compelling.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 19:06:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 19:17:22
You're probably the only pro-America Canadian i've ever met, Reidle, and you also tend to share the same opinions as the average American and combat what average Canadians believe. Unusual.
Here's a comprehensive list of every single school shooting which has ever occurred. Shouldn't have used the term 'uniquely', but as you can see where other countries have isoltaed incidents, the US has 6-10 times more of them. It's at epidemic proportions.
Originally by: Riedle
Robert Pickton murdered almost a hundred women in BC prof. Is there something wrong with Canadians?
He's a serial killer. Those are spread equally over the planet, showing no favoritism towards any country, or any reason to believe certain things about a country or society can encourage that.
And don't try and paint me as anti-America. That's another strange thing to see an alleged Canadian do. I'm simply pro-reality and anti-bull****.
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.17 19:58:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Riedle on 17/01/2011 20:03:06
Quote:
You're probably the only pro-America Canadian i've ever met, Reidle, and you also tend to share the same opinions as the average American and combat what average Canadians believe. Unusual.
I am pro rationality not pro-American. Most of the anti-American attitudes in Canada and I suspect other nations are due to feelings of inadaquacies that I do not share. I do not define how I view reality based on the country in which I was born. What a silly thing to do really.
Quote:
Here's a comprehensive list of every single school shooting which has ever occurred. Shouldn't have used the term 'uniquely', but as you can see where other countries have isoltaed incidents, the US has 6-10 times more of them. It's at epidemic proportions.
Yes, but the problem you are using is in your criteria. You are only counting shootings. I am counting people being killed. Honestly, what difference does it make how they were killed if you are only interested in violence?
None of course - unless you are soley interested in irrationally disparaging Americans.
Quote:
He's a serial killer. Those are spread equally over the planet, showing no favoritism towards any country, or any reason to believe certain things about a country or society can encourage that.
But i have shown how mass killings of any sort are not a purely American phenomenon nor are they more predominate in America. You have shown nothing except a lame uninterested agenda of Anti-Americanism. lol
Quote:
And don't try and paint me as anti-America. That's another strange thing to see an alleged Canadian do. I'm simply pro-reality and anti-bull****.
Nah, you are your typical left wing Canadian nationalist that let's the CBC do your thinking for you. lol
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:31:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 20:40:24
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 20:37:01
You make me feel so dirty, sinking to your level. Not going to take part in it.
Everything you`ve said is a perfect example of how ****ed up things are in the US. You`re not interested in discussing this and coming to a rational conclusion, you just want to mock and taunt me, while twisting the issue. You are not the type to listen to reason, or change their mind in mid argument. Your fragile ego cannot handle someone else being right and you being wrong. So you live in a world of aggression and delusion.
The truth doesn`t ever come into your mind. What matters is you sounding right, and `winning`. I can barely say anything here without you jumping on me, and i avoid this section because of you.
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:57:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
For every one in another country there's roughly 20 in the US. And things like school shootings are uniquely American.
Our primary schools are ****ty, this is not news.
Also, interestingly enough, that list is missing the other incident at Virginia Tech (probably because it wasn't very highly publicized) where someone just walked into the Cafeteria or Dining hall and just cut someone's head off. No, I'm not lying, but I'm not clear on the details either since it was hardly publicized at all.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:01:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
For every one in another country there's roughly 20 in the US. And things like school shootings are uniquely American.
Our primary schools are ****ty, this is not news.
Also, interestingly enough, that list is missing the other incident at Virginia Tech (probably because it wasn't very highly publicized) where someone just walked into the Cafeteria or Dining hall and just cut someone's head off. No, I'm not lying, but I'm not clear on the details either since it was hardly publicized at all.
Please do keep up.
Posted a comprehensive list of all school shootings.
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
nihlanth
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:01:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Riedle
Yes, but the problem you are using is in your criteria. You are only counting shootings. I am counting people being killed. Honestly, what difference does it make how they were killed if you are only interested in violence?
None of course - unless you are soley interested in irrationally disparaging Americans.
So you are you saying that there is nothing wrong with your criteria?
The total number killed does not accurately portray how violent or angry the population of a given county is.
How about we judge this by the total number of incidents?
The link you pasted shows that there are 219 total incidents from all categories.
50 of these 219 are from the United States
That is abbout 23 percent.
The world population is about 6 billion, the US, is about 300 million.
The population of the united states is less than 5% of the world population, but we have 23% of those reported killings.
Now, it could just be that here in the U.S., the freedom of press allows us to report a higher percentage of these incidents, so we can drop it to 20%.
Also there are a multitude of other environmental/economic factors that can inhibit or provoke these incidents to occur such as the purchasing power of the said loon to be able to buy a weapon, the means of transportation to get to the target, the weather, and any other distractions. I don't feel like getting into that right now.
The major point I'm trying to make is:
Now, would you expect that a country who thinks it is so moral, wealthy, and just: who is the defacto police force of the entire world, would have such high numbers of these angry loons running amok?
Just imagine the types of people that are enlisted in our military and police!
Because we all know that our police/military's mental health screening tests are oh so foolproof!
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Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:06:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Crazy Renegade
Edited by: Crazy Renegade on 17/01/2011 16:51:34
I got an idea to resolve this kind of idiotic thinking. Lets shut off all the games, tv's radios, and other form of entertainment for about 5 years and see what happens. Will there still be scumbags out there doing despicable acts to others? What was the problem with people like Jack the ripper? Jeffery Dahmer or the uni-bomber just to name a few? Did they get their ideas from the media? Video games and tv and quite possibly radio didn't exist back when jack the ripper was killing people on two different continents. The uni bomber despised technology so much he didn't have any of it. As for Jeffery Dhamer who's to say what his malfunction was. People are who they are. If there is any blame to be placed, it should be placed on the scumbag that commit ed these despicable acts of violence and no one else.
Perfect example of a fundamental attribution error. Everyone is different, and no one is simply the sum of themselves, and you can't "blame the scumbag that committed these despicable acts of violence" solely. There are situational influences that can affect whether or not someone does stuff like this.
Also, there are some people who are pushed towards violence by violent media, just like there are people who are born with genetic tendencies towards violence.
Cookies for you for making me look through my psychology notes just to find the name for that error, though :P
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Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:08:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
For every one in another country there's roughly 20 in the US. And things like school shootings are uniquely American.
Our primary schools are ****ty, this is not news.
Also, interestingly enough, that list is missing the other incident at Virginia Tech (probably because it wasn't very highly publicized) where someone just walked into the Cafeteria or Dining hall and just cut someone's head off. No, I'm not lying, but I'm not clear on the details either since it was hardly publicized at all.
Please do keep up.
Posted a comprehensive list of all school shootings.
Like it really matters whether someone uses a gun or a knife.
And look who's being rude now.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:15:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 21:17:49
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 21:16:28
Originally by: Selinate
Like it really matters whether someone uses a gun or a knife.
And look who's being rude now.
The list was missing virginia tech, like you said, i directed you to a more recent list you missed since. I`m a bad guy now.
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:16:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Selinate on 17/01/2011 21:19:56
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Selinate
Like it really matters whether someone uses a gun or a knife.
And look who's being rude now.
The list was missing virginia tech, like you said, i directed you to a more recent list you missed since.
No, that more comprehensive list is missing the incident I am talking about also.
Makes me wonder how truly complete it is...
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:20:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 21:21:58
As a Canadian, i`m sorry the Virginia Tech massacre happened, because there are no Americans with *********.
I have ********* and male horomones to spare. I`m terribly sorry all American males are cowards
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:21:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
As a Canadian, i`m sorry the Virginia Tech massacre happened, because there are no Americans with *********
-.-
No one was talking about the Virginia Tech massacre. But thank you for reopening old wounds with such petty insults for the college community of the U.S.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:27:00 -
[166]
I thought it was funny how Tarantula stated that school shootings were 'Uniquely American' just a couple posts AFTER I wiki-linked two Finnish SCHOOL shootings that occurred in the last few years. Reading obviously isn't one of his strong suits.
He just spouts off whatever, without bothering to consider facts other people have laid out for him.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.17 22:56:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 22:56:34
Ahem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CokYud_kbek&feature=related
Yours truly,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Benny Hill
Caldari
General Thrusters
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Posted - 2011.01.18 05:21:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Something about America causes it to have more angry people who lash out at the world around them. That is clear.
Maybe it has a population of 300 million? That's more than 1/3rd the population of Europe (including Russia).
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Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 12:58:00 -
[169]
Quote:
You make me feel so dirty, sinking to your level. Not going to take part in it.
Everything you`ve said is a perfect example of how ****ed up things are in the US. You`re not interested in discussing this and coming to a rational conclusion, you just want to mock and taunt me, while twisting the issue. You are not the type to listen to reason, or change their mind in mid argument. Your fragile ego cannot handle someone else being right and you being wrong. So you live in a world of aggression and delusion.
LOL
Wow, How did I attack you? I merely stated what your motivations were in attempting to disparage Americans. You clearly stated that there was something wrong with Americans.
That's a pretty direct attack on a large group of people don't you think?
I merely showed you that your inference about America being anymore violent or aggressive than any other country is incorrect. You failed to counter my facts and now seemingly want to decend into a pity party.
Not much of a debate really. lol
Quote:
The truth doesn`t ever come into your mind. What matters is you sounding right, and `winning`. I can barely say anything here without you jumping on me, and i avoid this forum section because of you. Not because you`re so awesome and right all the time, even though i`m sure you think that, but because you don`t listen to reason and provoke me every chance you get.
I linked my evidence which you refuse to address. I suspect that is because you are unable to counter it. If you are unable to counter it then you are unable to prove my assertion wrong and hence, your assertion right.
Quote:
Here i am treating you with respect and dignity, and there you are ending every sentence with `lols` and treating me like a ******.
I addressed what you posted. If you don't want to be shown a ******, don't post ******ed things.
Quote:
Im clearly at a disadvantage being rational
fyp
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Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:02:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 17/01/2011 21:21:58
As a Canadian, i`m sorry the Virginia Tech massacre happened, because there are no Americans with *********.
I have ********* and male horomones to spare. I`m terribly sorry all American males are cowards
See? I was right!
I said your motivations were based on purely infantile left wing Canadian nationalism.
Thank you for proving me right.
lols
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:13:00 -
[171]
Hey Riedle, remind me to buy you a beer sometime if I'm ever in Canada. You do good work here. Molson or Heineken, eh?
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Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:20:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Hey Riedle, remind me to buy you a beer sometime if I'm ever in Canada. You do good work here. Molson or Heineken, eh?
Moosehead or Keith's my good man
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.19 11:09:00 -
[173]
This is why we cant have nice things this thread was ok and a decent discussion about a controversial topic but people just had to start with the personal insults.
No wonder the mods lock any topic about politics or religion.
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Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:56:00 -
[174]
I'm sure the arizona shooter also wiped his ass with toilet paper. Clearly, toilet paper manufacturers should be held accountable for their actions. Never mind any of that stuff about this idiot being an anti-government lunatic, or the hostile tone of the "anti-big government" parties that is acceptable, encouraged and thought of as morally correct in today's society. It's toilet paper, or computer games, or gun shops that should be blamed. By god, we'll hold someone else accountable though! People need to remember they aren't responsible for their actions, everyone else is.
"Zion's Child -"I'm glad this forum is filled with idiots. It just wouldn't be any fun without people like Blane, Zedic, Surf and Jago. Your antics are what make OOPE such a joy to come to." |
Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.01.19 15:29:00 -
[175]
As for the yippy Canadian with small *****; It's ok, it's going to be alright. You're among friends here, and you're safe. Please show us on the map of North America where you were violated.
This **** does not happen because of who are are. It happens because some people who are born that way, or end up that way because of events in their lives descend into schizophrenia, psychopathy, whatever. They're failed organisms that had little chance if any to avoid becoming a serial killer, or gun toting lunatic who's doing what such failed people do: kill other people. There will be shootings, more death, more killing. It won't stop once America stops existing. As long as there are humans, some of them will end up this way. We should find a way to determine if a fetus has these traits, and if so they chop it up and use it for stem cell therapy.
There is nothing about being born on American soil that causes people to become like this. And if there was, why would it magically not effect people on either of our boarders? Our yippy Canadian friend, who's evidently hung like a church mouse, keeps on barking about the evils of his bigger, more successful, not to mention more endowed brother. Yet no broad accusations are offered up as proof why mass murdering is and has been the norm in Mexico, especially along the border towns. The drug cartels pretty much control the whole damned country, and are slaughtering people by the truck loads. There is little if any pontificating about the inherent violence of people who live in South America.
"Zion's Child -"I'm glad this forum is filled with idiots. It just wouldn't be any fun without people like Blane, Zedic, Surf and Jago. Your antics are what make OOPE such a joy to come to." |
So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.01.19 22:45:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Wall Street Journal Article
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.
What steps should CCP take to tone down the hateful eliminationist imagery that can trigger troubled individuals to commit terrible acts of violence like this one?
Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?
My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.
Go DIAF.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.20 04:15:00 -
[177]
I look forward to there being restrictions on MMOs for this.
Along with restrictions on car ownership and drivers the next time there is a massive accident.
Of course there are a lot of cars designed to go too fast, and there is no business having them.
One popular case here in the USA was one where a woman with known mental issues killed her children. Therefore all women who have ever had issues or taken an anti-depressant should be promptly visited by the police and their children taken by child services.
Next time a kid drowns in a tub or swimming pool, all tubs and swimming pools should be abolished and removed.
Next time someone gets taunted on Facebook or whatever and commits suicide, everybody involved should go straight to prison and frankly everybody should be forced to pass a psych exam before having the right to go to a social website.
Next time a certain breed of dog gets out of the yard and mauls a kid, all dogs of that breed should be rounded up and put to sleep immediately.
Finally the next time someone gets influenced by a movie in the wrong way, we should all have to get permission from shrinks to see movies, to be interviewed twice a year and maintain the privilege only on the word of a doctor ( no judge, jury, or trial).
In conclusion, everything you like or care about you should have to spend every day wondering if it's going to have new restrictions if not outright banned because "somebody somewhere did something bad".
Then and only then will the rest of you know what it's like to be a gun owner.
I am still wondering how such a loser like got the money for a third gen Glock.
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Lompocus Nuwen
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Posted - 2011.01.20 06:13:00 -
[178]
Why is it that the lot of you are bloody morons/very silly people? It's obvious that education and nationalism are at the heart of worse atrocities. See: Every mass murderer from the 1800s to now! Heck, see: European expansion across the Americas. Hey, there's also: WW2, Stalin, ******, Fascism, etc.
//insert an argument simple enough for the majority of forum-users to understand.
Therefore, nationalism tends to be related to a low level of education. The level of someone's education can probably be shown, somehow (or somewhere) to correlate with their tendency to violent tendencies. Both nationalistic and violent tendencies kill people, the former more than the latter. (It's a surprising thing nationalism is TAUGHT!... but i digress from a topic i never mentioned.)
Simply put: Media doesn't kill people. The structure of current society kills people. (and i'll slap you if you say "oh, people kill people, give me my games and guns and leave me alone, blablabla, whinewhinewhine, you darn silly person shush!)
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.01.20 14:09:00 -
[179]
Edited by: So Sensational on 20/01/2011 14:09:25
Originally by: Lompocus Nuwen
Therefore, nationalism tends to be related to a low level of education. The level of someone's education can probably be shown, somehow (or somewhere) to correlate with their tendency to violent tendencies.
While I can certainly agree with the former, the later I don't agree with, I love violence in certain forms, I love conflict, and I believe I am quite educated/intelligent. It's too much of a blanket statement, violence is everything from an ordinary street fight to genocide. Note that I do believe that the universe would be a better place if there were no violent beings. But that's not the case, so we might as well enjoy it as it is.
To be fair I don't believe that nationalism is all bad, certainly not in the case of say, the western world vs the east. Our way of living is to me, superior, and I much prefer living under the cultural hegemony of USA, rather than China. With that said, nationalism is fairly pointless in today's world, with today's military alliances.
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Flybiere
Gallente
Intergalactic Shrimp Emporium
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Posted - 2011.01.20 15:36:00 -
[180]
Same old bull****.
Guns are for Armies ,police forces and shooting clubs.
Any other situation and you are asking for trouble.
I am finding it hard to justify your "average Joe" owning a weapon.
Especially since your "average Joe" is thick as pig-****.
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Burhtun
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:26:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Burhtun on 20/01/2011 23:27:04
OMG CCP should ban everyone you're all trying to kill me.
Is some one seriously trying to blame a text-based game for this guy's murderous rampage?
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Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2011.01.21 16:36:00 -
[182]
I bask in the Chaos of this Thread !!!
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Viva VENEZUELA!!!
Archipelago Theory
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