I've walked around a number battle cruisers where the crew were in sweatpants and flip-flops during the 'night' shift. I've also worked with planetside infantry where soldiers had been fighting on the front line for over 60 days, and were managing about four hours of sleep a night. In neither of those situations were collars neatly pressed and tucked.

1) Leave Amarrian space and live in random nullsec.
2) Watch from 0.0 as amarrian space burns, and offering what i can only assume is encouragement from the sidelines.

You, little savage lad, have no idea what Amarrian space is and means.

I do completely agree with Initiate Hashur on this topic. Yet even on a planetary battlefield and during the roughest conditions order is the law of all intelligible existence.

You, little savage lad, have no idea what Amarrian space is and means.

I do completely agree with Initiate Hashur on this topic. Yet even on a planetary battlefield and during the roughest conditions order is the law of all intelligible existence.

If you were brave enough to help Your Empress, by actually enlisting into the Militia...

Leave Amarrian space and live in random nullsec....Watch from 0.0 as amarrian space burns, and offering what i can only assume is encouragement from the sidelines.

Sorry but I'd take a scruffy looking pilot who actually fights than some trim and tidy high and mighty God-lover sitting pretty in a backwater nul sec watching the rest of the world burn. Egotistical jack ass...

To most of the cluster and most capsuleers with a modicum of common sense the disputed factional-warfare 'territory' is the backwater, idiot.

If you had a modicum of common sense too, you'd see I was talking about the useless sliver of nul they hold and "police." Why do eggers feel a need to use an extensive vocabulary when arguing with someone? Trying to cover for something?

Then what location were you referring to when you say "watching the rest of the world burn"?

I use the same vocabulary when 'arguing' or having a drink, child. It's only 'extensive' by comparison.

Last I checked, CVA space in Providence IS Imperial Amarrian space as per The Reclaiming. I also understand that Providence has large planetary and extra-planetary populations. Possibly just as many people live in Providence as in your chosen warzone, including YOUR people. People who once looked upon your alliance as their guardian and savior. I'm sure those poor souls understand the hardships UNITY has faced which has kept us away, but I doubt they ever expected to be snubbed like this. To say Providence is not important is to say your people there are not important to you.

Not to mention CVA is often preoccupied with enemies of the Amarr Empire that are far more powerful than the Minmatar militia. A few significant miscalculations notwithstanding, they have done a fine job defending the Empire's southern border. I give credit here where credit is due.

I'm pretty sure you all are just trying to throw a few jabs at the slavers here, but I know you can find better ways to heckle them.

Instead they are posting in the forums about neatness, that sir is ********.

Almost as bad as taking the time to post complaints in the neatness thread, neh?

Not much else to do since the amarr wont fight, or cant.

I would suggest turning your attention inward and using a portion of your, no doubt not insubstantial, wealth and assets to provide for the planetside populations within the Republic and the space you've recently wrested. I know it can be a daunting task to try and focus on something other than endless combat, pillaging, murdering and raping; but I do encourage you to try it.

No it's not extensive by comparison, I simply don't feel the need to justify myself to a "child" pilot flaunting an overly engineered lexicon in order to cover her own short comings. Creating an assumption regarding an individual's command of language based on a passe interaction while flaunting their own "linguistic abilities" is nothing but a sign of ignorance on their part.

I don't flaunt without need. Speaking plainly and in a straight forward manner is far better than honeyed words.

As to the location, if you did your research, you'd realize what I'm talking about.

Pretty sure the only raping going on is from you bible thumpers with your minmatar slaves. The man's (Thor's) point still stands.

Not the need to justify, but still the need to explain yourself, got it.

Let's review: You're getting petulant due to someone else's vocabulary, which might just be a new low for the IGS.

Once upon a time capsuleers argued over content, not delivery method.



And this "child" is older than you.... and based on your public pilot record quite a bit more stable with both regular employment and competency on the battlefield.

If you'd like to compare specific shortcomings on a per-item bases though I'd be happy to put my record in any area right against yours.

Back to the topic then?

What's a bible? Also, you'd be incorrect in your understanding but I doubt you've bothered to do any real investigation into it so we'll just leave it there.

However none of the stations ever change hands (correct me if I'm wrong there).

To most of the cluster and most capsuleers with a modicum of common sense the disputed factional-warfare 'territory' is the backwater, idiot.

Maybe you dont understand the anger at having 1/3 of you people enslaved, no doubt you cant comprehend it being amarrian. but the constant knowledge that 1/3 of your race is toiling under unfavourable circumstances, and as i write this large percentages of the remaining heritage of my people are being brainwashed, or subjugated, its hard to put down our arms until this is rectified, for me, impossible.

The matari people displaced by the recent fighting are being helped as much as the republic can do so, myself being in the military arm of the organization, am better suited to protecting the space they are moving into, by force, each arm of the organization has its purpose mine is warfare, a duty im more than happy to carry out.

Not only is this a massive strategic victory but it means the complete destruction of enemy morale. one final step closer to total victory, one final step closer to no enemy to fight :/

My vast wealth will be invested into ensuring more slaves are freed and brought back into the fold, if you believe the republic to be that poor that it cannot care for its own people without the help of a capsuleers finances, your sadly mistaken. (the fact my entire income is paid for by the republic should tell you that your assumption is false).

Last i checked best place to start an arguement with an alliance member is in public, welldone.

I would suggest turning your attention inward and using a portion of your, no doubt not insubstantial, wealth and assets to provide for the planetside populations within the Republic and the space you've recently wrested. I know it can be a daunting task to try and focus on something other than endless combat, pillaging, murdering and raping; but I do encourage you to try it.

My, for someone who's supposedly got a grudging respect for the Minmatar people and someone who wants to appear as a reasoned and calm voice you've written a lot of racist stereotypes in that paragraph. Care to explain yourself, pilot?

What's a bible?

Seems like nobody in this thread has had their crew telling them "crud, the clothes washer is busted and we won't be able to fix it 'til we hit station" while you're out in the depths of Anoikis...still managed to accomplish the mission, though, even if everyone needed extended hot showers and brand-new clothes afterwards.

I believe you've taken my statement as if it were intended for all Minmatar, it was not. It was quite pointedly aimed at the one individual whom I quoted and I fail to see where it was racially charged.

Also, I do not believe I've ever claimed a desire to appear as a reasoned and calm voice. I am simply who I am and there is nothing more to it. I do try to be reasonable and calm but I admit I can become frustrated and speak in error, I am far from perfect. I also admit that my words were overly harsh as I've been very frustrated today with a number of things.

The activities listed have occurred in the past but I should not have attributed them to the present without substantial proof of them and should not have accused this individual pilot of them. For that, I was in error and I extend my apologies (for what little they're worth). The original claim that I would suggest diverting attention inward and helping planetside populations remains, however.

Last i checked best place to start an arguement with an alliance member is in public, welldone.

so you made the assumption i pillage **** and murder? (also taking my post from outside a roleplaying forum and using it in a roleplaying forum is stupid as hell)

Confirming i am correcting you because you are wrong.

Maybe you dont understand the anger at having 1/3 of you people enslaved, no doubt you cant comprehend it being amarrian. but the constant knowledge that 1/3 of your race is toiling under unfavourable circumstances, and as i write this large percentages of the remaining heritage of my people are being brainwashed, or subjugated, its hard to put down our arms until this is rectified, for me, impossible.

The matari people displaced by the recent fighting are being helped as much as the republic can do so, myself being in the military arm of the organization, am better suited to protecting the space they are moving into, by force, each arm of the organization has its purpose mine is warfare, a duty im more than happy to carry out.

My vast wealth will be invested into ensuring more slaves are freed and brought back into the fold, if you believe the republic to be that poor that it cannot care for its own people without the help of a capsuleers finances, your sadly mistaken. (the fact my entire income is paid for by the republic should tell you that your assumption is false).

Slavery isn't always easy, but it does the slaves good in the long run. Bondage is temporary, salvation is eternal.

Unfortunately the Republicans don't have a very good record when it comes to looking after refugees. Forced to live in squalor, subject to the rule of lawless mobs, is it so surprising that so many of us think that they're better off as slaves? (snip)

[quote=Rodj Blake]
Unfortunately the Republicans don't have a very good record when it comes to looking after refugees. Forced to live in squalor, subject to the rule of lawless mobs, is it so surprising that so many of us think that they're better off as slaves? (snip)

You and your ilk keep repeating this line and I'd like to know what facts you have to support it. If conditions were so horrid in the Republic as you contend, why then aren't people leaving en masse? Where are the Scope reports detailing these lawless mobs running roughshod over local police and military units? Why are people leaving the Federation to rejoin their brothers and sisters in the Republic?

Are you kidding me?? Gods dammit no wonder people hate your kind.

Take a look at the billions of Ni-Kunni in the Empire. Each and every one of them are descended from slaves. Would they be better off living in the mess that we found their ancestors in? Would there even be a Ni-Kunni race if we hadn't rescued them from their primitive state?

You enslaved them and forced your culture on them you dome headed God-Lover. You killed a culture that could have thrived. You forced it on them and pushed them into slavery until they recited every damn verse of your scriptures with perfect candor. Good little drones for your nut job Empress.

You enslaved them and forced your culture on them you dome headed God-Lover. You killed a culture that could have thrived. You forced it on them and pushed them into slavery until they recited every damn verse of your scriptures with perfect candor. Good little drones for your nut job Empress.

Aaah yes, the old ad hominem approach.

Yes we forced them to do things. It was for their own good. Consider a child. Sometimes its parents have to force it to do things, or force it to not do things. For its own good.

Getting things back on topic, the Ni-Kunni are in general both neater and tidier now.

Producing credentials which verify your right to make that statement would lend more credit to your argument.

Since when did anyone need credentials to say "slavery is wrong, you shouldn't decide a people's fate other than your own?" I love how eggers fall back on that bullshit excuse when a fact is stated. "Where's your data hmmm?" **** you, I don't need a 50-page thesis to support that slavery is morally reprehensible and that the Minmatar are deservedly pissed off. I just hope they stomp you people quickly.

I wonder how many of the imperials speaking have actually witnessed a Ni-Kunni water dance, or had the chance to sit and listen to a cloud reader? Probably not many considering that such customs are only openly practiced outside Amarr space. Truth is the Ni-Kunni come from an ancient, resourceful, and highly shamanistic culture that has much in common with the Vherokior, but unfortunately when the Amarr came to Mishi they impersonated characters from Ni-Kunni mythology in order to trick many Ni-Kunni into voluntarily accepting open conquest.

Such is the way of the Amarr, they love to pretend. They pretend they are strong, refined, and still relevant, when in truth they are parasites that claim to be enlightened and advanced, while feeding off the progress of other cultures to sustain their own. Time and again they are humiliated; by the Jovians, by the Matari on a daily basis, humiliated even by the Federation. And all the while what of their "reclaiming"? The best capsuleers among them defect to Caldari space out of frustration as those that remain fight and die not in ships of imperial majesty, but in the very vessels of those they claim to be savages.

Truth is the glory days of the Amarr empire have long passed, what remains is little more than an ineffectual relic kept in place to maintain some resemblance of order within a feudal patchwork of holder states, but fear not Amarr, the State will always be there to provide you with the technology and resources needed to hold off the inevitable, for a price.

Perhaps you have forgotten that it is the State that required an emergency transfusion of funds in order to stay a float and prevent economic collapse within itself, not the Empire. Perhaps you've also forgotten that the Empire has not requested the assistance of the State in any formal capacity and while technology is shared with the Kingdom and certainly benefits innovation, the majority of the Amarr fleet has been upgraded by our own engineers and technicians.

We at Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetics would like to take this opportunity to thank our Amarrian friends for the aforementioned loan of liquid funds to the Caldari State. The loan was provided on good terms, and we trust that the profits made by both parties as a result were well appreciated. We hope for future business endeavours with you, as we do with all interested parties. Thank you.

We at Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetics would like to take this opportunity to thank our Amarrian friends for the aforementioned loan of liquid funds to the Caldari State. The loan was provided on good terms, and we trust that the profits made by both parties as a result were well appreciated. We hope for future business endeavours with you, as we do with all interested parties. Thank you.

Out of curiousity, by what merit does your division have the right to express gratitude towards a slave trading theocratic empire for something that occurred centuries before even your parent corporation existed? How strange that a patriot corporation like Lai Dai would authorize such a sycophantic statement in the first place, much less through one of it's divisions.

Hm.

Let's see, the investment into the Caldari State by Empress Jamyl Sarum I occurred in the year YC 111.

Lai Dai existed before the Morning of Reason that occurred at the outset of the Gallente-Caldari war. (Over 200 years ago)

Do you even bother to check your information before you spew it out?

Out of curiousity, by what merit does your division have the right to express gratitude towards a slave trading theocratic empire for something that occurred centuries before even your parent corporation existed? How strange that a patriot corporation like Lai Dai would authorize such a sycophantic statement in the first place, much less through one of it's divisions.

It sickens me to see a fellow citizen of the State bend their knee to an Amarrian zealot as you have. While you're down on your hands and knees kissing his boots try to remember the fact that they are enslavers of worlds, and would do the same to our's given the chance.

A good Citizen of the State should probably be concerned that his mouthings don't get taken for Federation propaganda - after all, the Federation is aligned with the Republic.

Yea maybe you're right, but that still doesn't change the fact that you sir are an evil theocratic piece of slaver hound dung, and the universe would undoubtedly be a better place should you and your kind finally cease to exist. With that said I take my leave, the sanctimonious self righteous airs of this conversation are making me physically ill, and I still have to get these exotic dancers and tobacco to Ashab.... See ya on the lanes slaver.

Hm.

Let's see, the investment into the Caldari State by Empress Jamyl Sarum I occurred in the year YC 111.

Lai Dai existed before the Morning of Reason that occurred at the outset of the Gallente-Caldari war. (Over 200 years ago)

Do you even bother to check your information before you spew it out?

It saddens me to see that this is the freshest face of the Cal-Matar front, Dos.

It would be insincere of me to say that, despite your crudeness, I had not felt a spark of hope when I realized that another Pilot had once again emerged who recognized the potential for a good relationship between our people.

However, I have quickly come to realize that the nature of your beliefs have been forged by hatred.

You express the worst qualities of my own kindred - ignorance and irrationality in the face our enemy - and none of our best. Furthermore, the fact that you treat your State's ally with such errant disrespect when they have treated you and yours well is a great disservice to the Caldari people. Though, perhaps, your most dire of betrayals may be the nature in which you attack your own. You marry our ideas of Tribe whilst lashing out at your sisters in the same turn and this I cannot accept.

Spirits help your troubled mind, whelp. I see you walking towards a Path of destruction.

It sickens me to see a fellow citizen of the State bend their knee to an Amarrian zealot as you have. While you're down on your hands and knees kissing his boots try to remember the fact that they are enslavers of worlds, and would do the same to our's given the chance.

Heh, you expected a Caldari to have common decency when he could take a pot shot at someone?

Heh, you expected a Caldari to have common decency when he could take a pot shot at someone?

Every day, I find it harder and harder to suggest a diplomatic peace accord between our peoples. Congratulations on your contribution.

It saddens me to see that this is the freshest face of the Cal-Matar front, Dos.

It would be insincere of me to say that, despite your crudeness, I had not felt a spark of hope when I realized that another Pilot had once again emerged who recognized the potential for a good relationship between our people.

However, I have quickly come to realize that the nature of your beliefs have been forged by hatred.

You express the worst qualities of my own kindred - ignorance and irrationality in the face our enemy - and none of our best. Furthermore, the fact that you treat your State's ally with such errant disrespect when they have treated you and yours well is a great disservice to the Caldari people. Though, perhaps, your most dire of betrayals may be the nature in which you attack your own. You marry our ideas of Tribe whilst lashing out at your sisters in the same turn and this I cannot accept.

Spirits help your troubled mind, whelp. I see you walking towards a Path of destruction.

When I came to this summit the first thing I noticed was the arrogance of religious zealots and a general air of the pretentious. My only crime is that I have spoken sincerely and from the heart amongst a group of individuals who use tact when blunt directness is called for. If that makes me a "whelp" on a path of destruction than perhaps this "summit" is not the right place for my views. If it is considered a bretrayal to call an individual on misplaced humility when dealing with RELIGIOUS SLAVER SCUM, then may you live in interesting times pandering to your imperial overlords, because make no mistake, for all their talk of truth their idea of salvation is packing you and the ones you love aboard a Bestower to be shipped off to Domain to be sold as livestock for a handful of isk. Mark my words, for when that day comes no amount of boot kissing, good business practices, or long winded diplomacy will save you.

When I came to this summit the first thing I noticed was the arrogance of religious zealots and a general air of the pretentious. My only crime is that I have spoken sincerely and from the heart amongst a group of individuals who use tact when blunt directness is called for. If that makes me a "whelp" on a path of destruction than perhaps this "summit" is not the right place for my views. If it is considered a bretrayal to call an individual on misplaced humility when dealing with RELIGIOUS SLAVER SCUM, then may you live in interesting times pandering to your imperial overlords, because make no mistake, for all their talk of truth their idea of salvation is packing you and the ones you love aboard a Bestower to be shipped off to Domain to be sold as livestock for a handful of isk. Mark my words, for when that day comes no amount of boot kissing, good business practices, or long winded diplomacy will save you.

So I expect you will be taking up arms for the Gallente or Minmatar Militias then?

Nope, I refuse to fight for a hypocritical Federation or a liberation force that has members who insult someone for speaking blunty about the actions of slaver scum and those who pander to them.

Nope, I refuse to fight for a hypocritical Federation or a liberation force that has members who insult someone for speaking blunty about the actions of slaver scum and those who pander to them.

Nope, I refuse to fight for a hypocritical Federation or a liberation force that has members who insult someone for speaking blunty about the actions of slaver scum and those who pander to them.

Then I suspect you will, at least, be turning traitor on your own government?

I am a neutral trader and that is what I intend to remain, any thoughts of "taking sides" have been squelched by this summit.

When I came to this summit the first thing I noticed was the arrogance of religious zealots and a general air of the pretentious. My only crime is that I have spoken sincerely and from the heart amongst a group of individuals who use tact when blunt directness is called for. If that makes me a "whelp" on a path of destruction than perhaps this "summit" is not the right place for my views. If it is considered a bretrayal to call an individual on misplaced humility when dealing with RELIGIOUS SLAVER SCUM, then may you live in interesting times pandering to your imperial overlords, because make no mistake, for all their talk of truth their idea of salvation is packing you and the ones you love aboard a Bestower to be shipped off to Domain to be sold as livestock for a handful of isk. Mark my words, for when that day comes no amount of boot kissing, good business practices, or long winded diplomacy will save you.

I considered sharing some of my history,

Then I decided to save my breath and get a drink of tea.

I am not interested in your history Halete, your condemnation against one who speaks against the brutality of the Amarrians has already been noted.

I like how Dos has managed to irritate and insult members of all four empires plus Nation in a handful of pages.

The more you talk the more I regret backing you up....

I am not interested in your history Halete, your condemnation against one who speaks against the brutality of the Amarrians has already been noted.

Mmm. Bait, I'll bite.

Keeping it briefly; 'No.'

That's fine by me, I lost any semblance of respect for this "summit" pages ago. As far as I'm concerned the bulk of you deserve each other and only serve to reinforce for me why I choose a stance of neutrality.

Then why are you here?

Wow, you're more extreme than me.

Maybe you're just not eXtreme enough with these boot kissers.

If it is considered a bretrayal to call an individual on misplaced humility when dealing with RELIGIOUS SLAVER SCUM, then may you live in interesting times pandering to your imperial overlords, because make no mistake, for all their talk of truth their idea of salvation is packing you and the ones you love aboard a Bestower to be shipped off to Domain to be sold as livestock for a handful of isk.

Nope, I refuse to fight for a hypocritical Federation or a liberation force that has members who insult someone for speaking blunty about the actions of slaver scum and those who pander to them.

I am a neutral trader and that is what I intend to remain, any thoughts of "taking sides" have been squelched by this summit.

Regarldess, welcome to the infomorph community. Best of luck.

Wait, are we really considered infomorphs? I thought that was only when a consciousness is data, at all times.

I suppose that depends on your definition. According to the definition I work with, an infomorph is any decision network (sentient, biological, digital, or otherwise) able to

1. survive design-change modification to its decision network without a disjunctive event, and
2. demonstrate some form of substrate-independence.

In our labs, the first property is normally called the network's second-order resilience, while the second property is called its transitivity. Capsuleers are infomorphs with moderate second-order resilience and low transitivity.

Because it's still burning my warpcore a bit that I came to this "summit" expecting to see words from bold thinkers and kindred spirits, and instead I find a lot of pseudo intellectual slaver dung boot kissing and back patting the very entities that would sell them as livestock.

When I came to this summit the first thing I noticed was the arrogance of religious zealots and a general air of the pretentious.

I always thought of infomorphs as like, transhuman or posthuman or something. You know, shedding the need for physical bodies and such. Eh, I guess it's an open definition.

Ditto. There's an amusing drinking game based off of taking a sip of alcohol every time you see a supercilious post involving an Amarr and religion.

You don't even need your machine to be made out of meat anymore, although that's still easiest. Think about it.

Huh, that might explain the behavior of a few people here on IGS since my becoming more active.

Truly severing one's consciousness from an organic physical form is incredibly difficult. Our manifestation of "self" is built around the scaffold of an organic construct. I could have had my face smoothed out long ago, removing the ugly and painful scar from the side of my head, but it's that attachment to my physical form that has kept me from doing so.

Do yourself a favor and buy a couple of stocks in a liquor company if you're going to keep the stuffy Amarr religious nut act up.

Who's acting?

I doubt Mr. Kaine is a man of much religion. So then that leaves you, and pretty much the rest of the Summit.

[quote=Anabella Rella][quote=Rodj Blake]
Where are the Scope reports detailing the lawlessness in Minmatar space?

How about here, here and here?

Those three stories are amongst the most recent half-dozen Minmatar items on the Scope feed.

I could complain about Minmatar ignorance at this point - but you'd probably want news stories to support that as well, despite its self-evident nature.



I've done as you asked, despite the unwarranted insult.

Now, perhaps you'll return the favour and provide some evidence that people are leaving the Federation to settle in the Republic?

I understand that you believe slavery is morally reprehensible, you've been quite vocal about it and I wasn't implying that you need credential to make that assertion as it's entirely opinion-based.

My assertion was saying that someone doesn't know what's good for someone or not is an authoritative statement that does require crediting. A doctor, for instance, can say what is and isn't good for someone; as can a psychiatrist, scientists and yes, even ministers and priests.

Wrong, they can ADVISE a person. a doctor can tell a person to take a certain medicine or they will die, that person can say no i wont take it. it is there choice.

You eliminate the option of personal choice from the equation, therefore abusing the basic human rights of us all.

Funny what happens when an empire is ripped apart and it attempts to reform after a thousand years, you expect it to be smooth? i believe the deep seated damage you inflicted on my race is unknown even to you.

You look down upon us for a few riots? this republic is formed around a mixture of people born from different backgrounds, some are recently freed from slavery, others have been free for longer.

We havnt had thousands of years to stabilise the tribes, your holy "empire" saw to that.

There are also three tribes without elders, again we have you Amarr to thank for this, another glorious chapter in the long and rotten history of the Amarrian legacy.

Funny what happens when an empire is ripped apart and it attempts to reform after a thousand years, you expect it to be smooth? i believe the deep seated damage you inflicted on my race is unknown even to you.

You look down upon us for a few riots? this republic is formed around a mixture of people born from different backgrounds, some are recently freed from slavery, others have been free for longer.

We havnt had thousands of years to stabilise the tribes, your holy "empire" saw to that.

There are also three tribes without elders, again we have you Amarr to thank for this, another glorious chapter in the long and rotten history of the Amarrian legacy.

If you're having some minor surgery done and go a bit mental during the operation, resulting in you being seriously injured who is to blame - you or the surgeon?



If the riots are being caused by difficulties in integrating emancipated slaves into your society, then there's a obvious solution to the problem.


Perhaps you shouldn't be aiming to have all slaves released. Imagine the instability caused by every single Minmatar slave turning up on your doorstep!



The Empire was without an Emperor for a couple of years not so long ago. I don't recall seeing any riots as bad as we've witnessed in the Republic. If you Minmatars are bloodthirsty savages, perhaps it's an underlying feature of your psyche rather than anyone else's fault.

Everyone gets angry over the slave issue me being one of them but you honestly can't expect us a nation and as people to not reason out that the Amarr helped put us right where we are.

For better or worse everything that happens in the Republic is a direct result of our war. Trying to wash your hands of it comes across as not only hypocritical but honestly quite sad.

Everyone gets angry over the slave issue me being one of them but you honestly can't expect us a nation and as people to not reason out that the Amarr helped put us right where we are.

For better or worse everything that happens in the Republic is a direct result of our war. Trying to wash your hands of it comes across as not only hypocritical but honestly quite sad.

The Amarr did not help put you right where you are. The Federation helped put you right where you are. The Jovians helped put you right where you are. But we didn't. If we had our way, we would still be looking after all of you.

But if the Republic is in a bad way, then ultimately it's because the people running it are not suited to the task. It really is that simple.

So...you're saying that the years of slavery and war to "reclaim your property" had 0 baring on their current state?...Really?

Rodj.

That's ******* stupid.

If the Minmatar hadn't rebelled, they would be well on the way to full enlightenment by now.

Many of them would be enjoying a similar quality of life to the numerous satisifed Ni-Kunni living in the Empire.

But no. They weren't patient. Like a small child they wanted their pudding before they'd eaten their meat. They wanted their freedom before they were ready for it. And now they are paying the price.

They wouldn't have rebelled if you didn't enslave them and instead tried to ally with them and help them as equals, not animals. And don't say that you did it for their own good and they were treated well. If they were treated anything that could be considered well, the rebellion wouldn't have happened.


Not everyone likes subjugation, let alone invading their home planet and bombarding it from gods damn ORBIT.

I'm glad to hear that you don't like the concept of orbital bombardment. I hear that it's more of a Federation tactic though, so perhaps you should complain to your own government?

I'm glad to hear that you don't like the concept of orbital bombardment. I hear that it's more of a Federation tactic though, so perhaps you should complain to your own government?

How about here, here and here?

Those three stories are amongst the most recent half-dozen Minmatar items on the Scope feed.

You point out 3 scattered and unrelated incidents (one of which was precipitated by Amarrian zealots placing someone deliberately in harms' way, by the way, and then feigning surprise when the inevitable happened) to prove your entire argument? I could point out 3 instances where sadistic holders have brutalized their slaves and extend that to your entire race as well. We both know that would be intellectually dishonest, however.

You asked for evidence, I provided it.

You have made claims, we're yet to see any evidence to back them up.

But anyway, you present yourself as an advocate of freedom. Surely you don't object to people practising their religion? Or does your belief in freedom only extend as far as people doing what you want them to do?

I'm sure advocacy doesn't include forcing your religion on other people, as I mentioned before and that you so conveniently didn't answer. Also evidence? Do you REMEMBER the Days of Darkness from their history? Look who's talking about lack fo evidence. Now you sound ******* stupid AND like a ******* hypocrite.

I had previously asked Anabella to provide evidence of Minmatars flocking to the Republic from the Federation. That is what I was referring to.

I'm not sure what that has to do with what primitves call the Day of Darkness? Maybe you you were so blinded with prejudicial rage that you just decided to lash out at me without actually realising what I was talking about?

Tshusht eight a shec!

*transmission terminated*

Last I checked, advising a person is telling them what's good for them and what's not. Whether or not they choose to follow it is another matter entirely.

As for the elimination of personal choice, that's not entirely accurate. You still possess the ability to choose to listen or rebel and, as with all choices, you face the consequences of either choice. It never ceases to amaze me how people claim it is a basic human right to be free and yet all of us are slaves to something.

I would humbly suggest that you start taking responsibility for your own failures. Blaming the Empire for the riots in your streets, the blatant violence against peaceful persons and the difficulties in securing centralized leadership will not help you grow and develop as a people, when you begin to take responsibility rather than defer the blame you will begin to overcome the obstacles facing you.

It doesn't take thousands of years to establish a centralized government and some measure of peace and unity between a people. It can take a few years no doubt, but certainly not thousands. You have those among your number suggesting that you do just that, focus on infrastructure and developing unity among yourselves but the majority of you seem more content to keep waging war and conflict, even you yourself seem more concerned with finding the next fight than actually assisting your people, this is based on your own words.

The Empire has no doubt had an effect on your people but it was your rebellion and now it's your Republic. Take pride in it and accept responsibility for its failures as readily as you accept credit for its successes.

Diana; I adore you more and more with every post.

So in its youth the amarr were not in a civil war with the khanid on athra? they didnt enslave countless worlds etc that were different and enforce the amarr's way upon them?

Unlike you amarrian the minmatar dont repress free will. we have a multitude of peoples with different religions, ways of life, tribal beliefs etc. yes this causes conflict especially since they are all so newly settled together.

What we do not do is stamp out this difference like you. this gives us great strength and weakness.

Im not saying it is the easiest way to live but it is right, when you see this fact you will be truly enligtened my ignorant friend.

Random Amarrian religious nonsense

By enslaving the minmater you didnt advise you enforced. you didnt offer us the ability to follow your religion, as a doctor advising a patient would, you enslaved us and told us it was for our own good, if we told you we didnt want to follow your religion we were "corrected". Fact.

So in its youth the amarr were not in a civil war with the khanid on athra? they didnt enslave countless worlds etc that were different and enforce the amarr's way upon them?

Unlike you amarrian the minmatar dont repress free will. we have a multitude of peoples with different religions, ways of life, tribal beliefs etc. yes this causes conflict especially since they are all so newly settled together.

What we do not do is stamp out this difference like you. this gives us great strength and weakness.

So in its youth the amarr were not in a civil war with the khanid on athra?

You are correct, we didn't offer you much choice in the matter. I do not deny that this was a misstep on our part as previously we always attempted to peacefully guide and shepherd if possible. Also, referring to the latter, rejection of the message of God does warrant conquest by the Reclaiming, yes. I have also never denied that.

Actually no, the Khanid submitted pretty voluntarily save for a few that chose to wage war rather than submit. These were forced into submission through conquest. To the latter, yes we did engage in conquest over many worlds before we contacted the Minmatar. Most of them are now upstanding members of the Empire, many serve in positions of power and authority. We even managed to keep a few from going extinct due to lack of resources on their home planets or destroying themselves through civil war.

Actually, the Minmatar have a history of violently attacking and killing their own kin who follow the Amarr faith, I'll provide references if you'd like. Also, before our arrival, you warred constantly against one another, even attempting to eradicate entire tribes from among yourselves, you actually became unified as a result of the interaction between our two peoples.

I agree that you find great strength in diversity and internal friction. You have certainly demonstrated so. However, you do stamp out certain differences if you feel strongly enough opposed to them.

You are correct, we didn't offer you much choice in the matter. I do not deny that this was a misstep on our part as previously we always attempted to peacefully guide and shepherd if possible. Also, referring to the latter, rejection of the message of God does warrant conquest by the Reclaiming, yes. I have also never denied that.



Actually no, the Khanid submitted pretty voluntarily save for a few that chose to wage war rather than submit. These were forced into submission through conquest. To the latter, yes we did engage in conquest over many worlds before we contacted the Minmatar. Most of them are now upstanding members of the Empire, many serve in positions of power and authority. We even managed to keep a few from going extinct due to lack of resources on their home planets or destroying themselves through civil war.



Actually, the Minmatar have a history of violently attacking and killing their own kin who follow the Amarr faith, I'll provide references if you'd like. Also, before our arrival, you warred constantly against one another, even attempting to eradicate entire tribes from among yourselves, you actually became unified as a result of the interaction between our two peoples.



I agree that you find great strength in diversity and internal friction. You have certainly demonstrated so. However, you do stamp out certain differences if you feel strongly enough opposed to them.

And you finally prove to me just how very very VERY little your knowledge is.

It is very clearly published that the amarrians respect for the khanid stemmed from the years of staunch resistance the smaller and less populated khanid put up against the amarr. submitted voluntarily? your knowledge is laughable.

Uh, no, Azdan is quite correct on that front. The Khanid were very willing disciples of the Amarrian faith.

I stand corrected it was the Udorians not the Khanid the amarr were at war with however my point still stands.

Let me point you here Azdan http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Reclaiming

Read the history of your people. violence from start to finish.

Stop attempting to deny this.

I cannot hold it back in longer.

Your hair: Why?!

I stand corrected it was the Udorians not the Khanid the amarr were at war with however my point still stands.

Let me point you here Azdan http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Reclaiming

Read the history of your people. violence from start to finish.

Stop attempting to deny this.

The history of everyone has been violence from start to finish, Captain. Your own people are not immune to that, even amongst yourselves.

Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?

Also as I recall the Angel Cartel is just as much Matari as it is anything else.

Lord Kithrus,

With utmost respect, this is folly. By this claim, the Amarr would have to adopt the Blood Raiders and Equilibrium of Mankind as Amarr since they splintered from our faith and culture.

Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?

If you wish to peacefully evangelize across the cluster, fine.

The bottom line is this; neither the Minmatar, Gallente or Caldari recognize any "divine" right of the Amarr to forcibly spread their faith through the so-called "reclaiming" nor, do we recognize your deity. Your authority ends at your border. Why can't you accept this and leave the rest of us alone? I say your god doesn't exist. You say he does and that my "soul" will be forfeit unless I and my descendants for the next 9 generations bow to your will. As an adult well past the age of majority I say that's MY concern, not yours.

Had your people never invaded and abducted, murdered, subjugated and poisoned mine with biological weapons (vitoc) for a millennium we'd have never attacked. You started the war and the Elders attempted to finish it.

The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?

Miss Rella,

God does not require you to recognize or validate his existence nor his plan. God's authority is without boundary and without border whether or not you choose to accept or believe it. I understand that doesn't satisfy you nor does it change the scope of your perspective, but it is the truth of it.

I would also explain that there is no requirement for nine generations of slavery, that is simply the maximum length of time we will hold a people in slavery before considering our attempts as failures. Indeed, there is no requirement for even a single generation of slavery, it is dependent entirely upon the individuals involved in penance and instruction.




I will not discount that you had justification in your rebellion and that many wicked and evil things have been done to your people by the malpractice of the Empire. However, the Minmatar people signed treaties and agreed to cessation of hostility along with the Empire in the Yioul Conference, the war ended there and your people accepted the conditions of the cessation at that time. Your Elders broke the agreement and started the current war, even claiming the lives of countless persons innocent of your grievances against the Empire.

Not only is a Crusader to be neat and Tidy at all times, they should keep their ships in formation while running from a battle.

Monseiur, to quote a stadium chant I heard on Laic recently. "You only sing when you're winning." One hears a rather leaden silence regarding the state of the Caldari/Gallente front these days.

EHEM one second.. hmm yes a clear throat.

YOUR NOT IN THE MILITIA NPC CORP NOOB STFU ABOUT STUFF YOUR HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INVOLVMENT IN OR POST WITH YOUR MAIN.

Thanks you thank you.

if you call the defense of oneself invading you sir are a ******. please continue. it makes me feel good about myself.

...

This week at the Academy we've been covering the Amarr-Jove war. What's struck me about the war, and the battle at Vak'Atioth in particular, is that the Amarrian sense of pride and arrogance often seems to overide Amarrian common sense. History tells of how the empire broadcasted for weeks prior to the battle messages of imperial dominance, proclaiming themselves as God's chosen, and yet despite the outcome of that battle which history tells us was one of the greatest defeats the empire has ever endured, Amarrians still persist in making similar proclamations to this day.

My point is that maybe when it comes to Amarrian/MInmatar diplomatic relations, the reason it so often seems that progress is so slow is partly because of this prideful stubbornness Amarrians display. Perhaps if the imperial crusaders were more mindful of this in their communication, a common ground beyond religious and cultural differences could be realized. Likewise maybe some of those on the side of the Republic could meet the Amarrians half way by being mindful of the possibility that during talks in the here and now, often the transgressions of the past seem at the forefront of their minds. My diplomacy teacher likes to say, "to realize peace now, we must often put aside that which happened then". I think this is especially true when one attempts to hold a person living in modern times accountable for the actions of those who lived generations ago. Which of course isn't to say that both sides do not continue to persist in violent acts against each other to this day.

Anyways that's my take on the diplomatic issues of the amarrian minmatar conflict. I hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm only a student after all and I don't assume to speak from any position of authority.

Azdan do you even do anything outside of the public forum?

Ive had an agent sat outside your station in Penirgman for the last 2 days and youve just been there docked shouting your mouth.
Please undock so i can ehem have words with you.

The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?

Azdan do you even do anything outside of the public forum?

Ive had an agent sat outside your station in Penirgman for the last 2 days and youve just been there docked shouting your mouth.
Please undock so i can ehem have words with you.

You can try to 'talk' with me instead. I won't make you wait for so long, if you come to my door.

My sincerest apologies. You may recall I have just finished creating a corporation under the banner of the Empire, such a task requires that a basic level of administrivia be seen to in order to create a solid foundation for the corporation to grow from. Establishing communication channels, role and title delegations, descriptions, advertisements, hangars and so on. This is a tedious process that takes significant time investment. So yes, I've been sitting within a station for the past couple of days seeing to these tasks, ordering my house, if you will.

To answer your question, yes.

As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.

Wow, I'm so glad you're a reasonable enemy and not one blinded by hatred and the pain you've suffered and wish to cause others to suffer. I can really see us being able to reach some sort of compromise and understanding through reasonable dialog. NOT.

And it's a shame, because your fantasy of taking the Empire's systems, invading their planets, capturing the slaves and shuttling them off to the Republic, recapturing the holy relics you claim we stole from you and making our own holy cathedrals burn. Well, it's just that. It's a fantasy. If you can enter the Empire's space at all it's only because you have followed the rules enough to not be labelled outlaw by the Empire. If you attack anything, it's only because you have leave to fire upon it from Empire authorities.

And if you manage to kill Father Amith, it'll only be to cause him to awaken, perhaps in the same station he just undocked from.

Your rage will not achieve what you want it to achieve.

We've talked before. me and my brothers have destroyed many of your ships. As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.

Should you manage to catch me, destroy my ship and destroy my pod, you will have accomplished three things:

• Proven that rather than actually try and settle the disputes between us you would prefer to simply kill, which validates my original accusations against you
• Forced me to purchase a new clone contract and implants
• Destroyed a ship

The truth is that I am already a clone, that is part of becoming a capsuleer these days. Second, being cloned has nothing to do with seeing God. Third, I have no problem facing you in combat if that is the only language you speak. However, it will accomplish nothing except perhaps making you feel superior for a time.

A shame, really. Where do you wish to meet?

There are a few problems here.
1) Ten's of billions of people enslaved is not a dispute its a dahm crime against humanity.
2) Your view is clearly that of your extremist bretheren, that the minmatar need to be enslaved to be saved.

Because of point 2 you have commited a crime against my people and my tribe. for that there can only be death.

You want a straight out fight with a combat record of 0? it will hardly be a challenge. no i think hunting will be much more fun, you might be in a ship actually worth something when i catch you.

Also an Amarrian capsuleer sacrifices his right to see God, that is fact. Cloning is heretical if im correct? anyway this seems to be the view of most amarrian pilots im fighting against. Your not yet a clone unless youve self destructed your pod, since there is 0 record of you ever having lost one.

Theres a difference between invading and retrieving stolen property. You invaded us and took our people history and holy relics.
Your worlds will burn until we get them back.

And we will get them back

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property. We have receipts.

Receipts signed in generations of blood and notarized by every person who has ever lost a loved one to the reclaimings.

This is what makes Amarrians strong, this is what makes them fight no matter what. This defeat of Amarrians doesn't demerit them, counterwise, it shows how they can endure hard times. We all have something to learn from them.
And you with your 'common sense' can run away after your former president Foiritan.

...Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property. We have receipts. More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders. They weren't taken from you or anyone else.

.....

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property.
We have receipts.
More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders.
They weren't taken from you or anyone else.

Do you believe the minmatar enslaved by the amarr should be free'd?

Do you believe it is the amarrians right to reclaim all of new eden?

Excuse me if i misunderstood something you have said and led me to believe you were saying something you were not, this is a bi-product of you expunging 1000 words when 10 will do.

Our "right?" No. It is our sacred duty.

There are a few problems here.
1) Ten's of billions of people enslaved is not a dispute its a dahm crime against humanity.
2) Your view is clearly that of your extremist bretheren, that the minmatar need to be enslaved to be saved.

Because of point 2 you have commited a crime against my people and my tribe. for that there can only be death.

Interesting since I've never once stated to hold that view, but I appreciate you telling me what my viewpoint is for me, it will help me clear the muddied waters a bit.