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nerf Angel Cartel ships already

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Sphit Ker Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.10 11:32:00 - [1] It's time. They don't belong in the EVE universe. You know when there is no counter but more of the same? It's time to nerf. INB4 trolls and ****heads. Prove me wrong by providing a hard counter that actually work. Prove me wrong by providing a counter the Angel Cartel ships have to fear and worry about. I give you one century to prove me wrong. Until then, don't even try. What is it, already? Support me, teach me or step off. The following statement is not my signature. The preceding statement is my signature.
Kepakh	Posted - 2011.02.10 11:56:00 - [2] Dramiel, Cynabal, Machariel? Well, if it was up to me, I would removed faction ships from the game or at least nerf them back to hangar trophies, although some balance between T1 and T2 ships might be fine. There is a reason why AF weren't made as inties on steroids....
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.10 12:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Sphit Ker It's time. They don't belong in the EVE universe. You know when there is no counter but more of the same? It's time to nerf. INB4 trolls and **heads. Prove me wrong by providing a hard counter that actually work. Prove me wrong by providing a counter the Angel Cartel ships have to fear and worry about. I give you one century to prove me wrong. Until then, don't even try. What is it, already? Support me, teach me or step off. how do you want them to be nerfed in a way that they still are useful? Also keep in mind that pirate ships are supposed to be the nearest thing to named tech2 ships in this game, while navy ships are the step between T1 and T2. tbh in my experience the dramiel is only problematic because of speed. kill off it's drones and he needs to get into web+scram range to deal damage. the cynabal is pretty much a HAC5 vagabond with extra fittings, an extra med, agility and twice the dronebay, while the machariel is a combat-capable vargur. --- Quote:** The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.02.10 12:10:00 - [4] They are pretty annoying right? Guess what we in FW/Low-sec have been clamouring for since the OP'ness was revealed While I am sorry for your discomfort, we managed to restrict their use by gimping our ships and used baiting to kill them over a period of time until the FoTY jockeys found more cost effective ways of playing the game. It is the sad reality of the molasses development cycle that CCP employs. But is is nice to see null feeling the sting so perhaps we'll finally see some action on this front. PS: Tracking is your friend. Spam metastasis rigs on your guns-ships.
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.10 12:29:00 - [5] Step 1 Good rapier/huginn Pilot Step 2 arazu/lachesis Step 3 Whatever to apply damage Cerberus/Drake is actually good for this Step 4 Profit. Dramiels have crap dps when you kill drones Pod
BadPlebe	Posted - 2011.02.10 12:52:00 - [6] Bhaalgorn. /end thread
Swynet	Posted - 2011.02.10 12:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Sphit Ker It's time. They don't belong in the EVE universe. You know when there is no counter but more of the same? It's time to nerf. INB4 trolls and ****heads. Prove me wrong by providing a hard counter that actually work. Prove me wrong by providing a counter the Angel Cartel ships have to fear and worry about. I give you one century to prove me wrong. Until then, don't even try. What is it, already? Support me, teach me or step off. Well what's the point on your coment? - they are op vs what? Tiers 1 2 or 3 of theyr counterparts? VS T2 hull counterparts? You can only compare pirate ships with pirate ships. Angel ships are based on Minmatar, minies are working perfectly atm so compare with other ones is not very fair because almost all other pirate ships (mabe not the Bhaalgorn) are all pretty good but suffer from some major problems of their base race. I would rather see all other pirate ships get to the same lvl wich would finaly mean that hybrids and gallente hull were fixed. Also meaning the only good ship caldari have to pvp being the one with +resists per lvl would be extended to all other hulls giving caldari pilots other choices than drakes or "I shoot you from here", also being hybrid pilots they could finaly use blaster/rail ships for this matter. Also give Amarrian pilots the possiblity to use other bonus than nos/neut when they don't even see the difference when they don't have one, mabe some missile bonus web I don't know because in my humble opinion Amarrian boats are pretty fine and very very close to minies, but it's just my opinion. So yes, they are more expensive than T2 ships, they are very performant but mabe you wanted to compare them with the Navy versions? -because those ones are really really overpowerd vs their base hull. Flying Mega navy and Raven navy and all I can tell you is the difference is not the other side of the street, no. It's realy realy an enourmous bridge between both.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.10 13:11:00 - [8] Step 1: Buy a badger. Step 2: fit it correctly Step 3: ???? Step 4: Profit.
Dobieblaze	Posted - 2011.02.10 13:11:00 - [9] The angel ships are fine as they are. Stop trolling
Sphit Ker Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.10 13:21:00 - [10] My point, actually. They got most of the good stuff but so little, or none, of the drawbacks. As I stand, they are the incarnation of the dreaded solopwnmobiles. In other words, they have strengths and abilities they can capitalize on almost every time while no weakness we can count on short of a specific multi-manned response involving a specific and specialized fleet composition. I mean, really, name one ship that is not vulnerable to the Rapier/Huginn plus Lachesis/Arazu combo anwyay? I can't think of one to be honest. Any ship is equally vulnerable to this setup. It is not an intrinsic weak point of the Cartel designs. I want the Cartel lineup adjusted in a way there is a weakness we can count on, in the same line we can count on most any other ships of the universe: it's this or that. As it is, they can gank for sure in a timely fashion or GTFO. Tank and EWAR is largely irrelevant to them; they can get GTFO at the flick of a button anyway. They need a nerf that will give them an exploitable weakness yet they should remain true to their identities: nimble and powerful. I've got to be honest, I really LOVE flying a Cynabal or Dramiel; these things are winners! So fast, so nimble! The blob of doom can STFU already... yup. Feels that good, man. Lets not kill them to pointlessness like the Cruor, please? Yet, they need to be dealt with. They are a breeding poison in the universe. They drag things down along their wakes to the point where the best counter is more of the same or a very specific and specialized composition. Their acceleration rate need to get nerfed a fair bit. That's how I see it. Not their top speed neither their agility nor their combat abilities per see, but only their acceleration rates. That way, they get to think slightly beyond the set orbit at 500m and collect killmails or keep at range 1,000km and survive to tell tales. With a measurably weaker acceleration rate, they'll have to figure things out and see whats best for them before they blindly commit to battle without much fear or concerns at all for their own sake. Secondary benefit of the acceleration rate nerf means that these Dramiels and Cynabals wont be already at 50+km away be the time our 1500mm scan res'ed ships get a solid lock on them... just like 99% of the universe. No ships can have it all. Cartel ships really have all that matters... just take the acceleration rate away and see what happens next <3 It's good. The following statement is not my signature. The preceding statement is my signature.
Sphit Ker Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.10 13:26:00 - [11] Edited by: Sphit Ker on 10/02/2011 13:25:56 Originally by: baltec1 Step 1: Buy a badger. Step 2: fit it correctly Step 3: ???? Step 4: Profit. I like you. <3 a lot... The following statement is not my signature. The preceding statement is my signature.
rodensteiner Amarr Awesome Jacket Society	Posted - 2011.02.10 13:36:00 - [12] Dramiel - use Slicer, certain Taranis setups, Daredevil, Cruor, etc. Cynabal - Zealot, etc. Long reaching lasers put serious hurt on T1 shield tanks. Hurricane and Vagabond can work pretty well here, too. Machariel - Once it's not moving, it's just another battleship. The shield-tanked ones are probably flimsier than your average battleship, too. _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
Korg Leaf Time Bandits.	Posted - 2011.02.10 13:48:00 - [13] Dramiel - Dual Web Caracal, Neut Vexor, AB/MSE Jaguar, AB/MSE Ishkur Cynabal - Curse (Nano ships really suck when they cant use there MWD anymore) Not really fought many machariels but like the poster above me said once scrammed I imagine its the same as most BS. -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
ChromeStriker	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:00:00 - [14] Edited by: ChromeStriker on 10/02/2011 14:02:43 there are plenty of ships that can take them on 1v1 if set up correctly, especially if take into account cost! thinking about it for the cost of a cartel ship you could fit out an entire gang of similarly sized ships (or bigger) that would simply tare them a new one!! edit: how much are dramials going for nowadays? and how many aml caracals could you fit for the same price? they dont even need to be T2 fit! just think how many T1 frigs you could get for the same amount
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:27:00 - [15] OP is blatantly trolling. There are multiple fits for each ship and obviously no one fit/ship can counter them all. You get serious and post an actual fit that you think cant be countered and you will get serious answers.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Cipher Jones OP is blatantly trolling... That would make all other identical threads since Dominion trolls as well .. somehow doubt it. Bog standard dual-prop has no counters. You may be able to chase it off but the only way you can get a kill is if the pilot ****s up or you use a lol-gimmick fit. Reduce fittings to make the dual-prop damn hard to fit and all is well. Next!
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Cipher Jones OP is blatantly trolling... That would make all other identical threads since Dominion trolls as well .. somehow doubt it. Bog standard dual-prop has no counters. You may be able to chase it off but the only way you can get a kill is if the pilot **s up or you use a lol-gimmick fit. Reduce fittings to make the dual-prop damn hard to fit and all is well. Next! oh they have counters, you just need to think out of the box. --- Quote:** The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Cygnus Zhada Custodians of Athra	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:48:00 - [18] The problem isn' that there aren't any counter, there ARE counters ofcourse. The problem is that (just as with the nano age of old) they're TOO good, TOO fast and TOO much used. They need to be addressed. --- Stultorum infinitus est numerus.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2011.02.10 15:02:00 - [19] 0/10 Dramiel - Dies all the time because once you scram/neut and get small drone on him he's dead. Cynabal - Dies to Curse/Pilgrim. Hates Drake. Scrammed = Dead unless AB+lucky. Mach - It's a BS, granted an agile one, just get some decent tackle on it and get your gang on the case.
Ravenesa The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.02.10 15:08:00 - [20] I fly Drams and Cynabals, I also fly their counters. They are not god ships. Their big drawback is their cost, but you get what you pay for. The Dram and the Cynabl have a GTFO ability, but that alone does not always save them. Scram + Web with an AB on most AF frig hulls is enough to deal with a Dram as they tend to no fit webs themselves. Kill their drones and stick in fall off and they die. I've also seen Cynabls taken out by the veneral Rifter because the pilot was smart.
Target Painter Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.10 15:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Sphit Ker Prove me wrong by providing a hard counter that actually work. Prove me wrong by providing a counter the Angel Cartel ships have to fear and worry about. Good sir, have you considered investing in a recon-class war vessel? If not, you should. Webs take away Angel advantage. Scrams take away Angel advantage. Being capped out takes away Angel advantage. And really, being permajammed makes any ship pointless unless it's firing FoF missiles.
Tyr Zewa Caldari Tax Collectors	Posted - 2011.02.10 16:42:00 - [22] I don't like them that much tbh but I don't think they need a nerf, there are counters out there people are just lazy and lets be honest with CCP's track record why try to solve a problem when you can cry "nerf" and some Dev who's clueless will kerb stomp them. What really makes them annoying is when a good pilot is in one, but thankfully CCP can't nerf pilots. Leave them alone, more acute problems to be solved.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:00:00 - [23] in a virtual world where 50% of the pvp community can afford to pvp in whatever they like and speed is the best thing to avoid being killed - why would they not fly the best? if the cynabal was affordable for everyone, of couse those who could, would too - and then we would have a problem.
freshspree	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Sphit Ker It's time. They don't belong in the EVE universe. You know when there is no counter but more of the same? It's time to nerf. INB4 trolls and ****heads. Prove me wrong by providing a hard counter that actually work. Prove me wrong by providing a counter the Angel Cartel ships have to fear and worry about. I give you one century to prove me wrong. Until then, don't even try. What is it, already? Support me, teach me or step off. The last time i checked, angel ships were available to everyone. If you really want to kill angel ships so bad. Why don't you get one so you can reduce the so called odds. The game is a lot more balanced than it used to be. I won't tell peeps to stop posting rage threads after getting popped because that's what makes these threads time worthy.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:02:00 - [25] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 10/02/2011 17:04:18 Originally by: baltec1 Step 1: Buy a badger. Step 2: fit it correctly Step 3: ???? Step 4: Profit. That spawned one of the most epic emo rage threads ever... Anyway. I think Angel mass needs to be nerfed so that the ships are best in class, and not best in the class below it. Some other minor nerfs as well. Been almost a year since I posted that... Originally by: freshspree The last time i checked, angel ships were available to everyone. If you really want to kill angel ships so bad. Why don't you get one so you can reduce the so called odds. Great idea! I have a better one: let's just remove all non-faction ships from the game. Why let them exist if everyone can train for the same best ship, right? Nawmsayin' nawmsayin'? ùùùùù Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Dr Fighter in a virtual world where 50% of the pvp community can afford to pvp in whatever they like and speed is the best thing to avoid being killed - why would they not fly the best? if the cynabal was affordable for everyone, of couse those who could, would too - and then we would have a problem. thing is, if price was a factor for balance, the supercaps we have atm would actually need to be boosted. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Dr Fighter in a virtual world where 50% of the pvp community can afford to pvp in whatever they like and speed is the best thing to avoid being killed - why would they not fly the best? if the cynabal was affordable for everyone, of couse those who could, would too - and then we would have a problem. thing is, if price was a factor for balance, the supercaps we have atm would actually need to be boosted. i would disagree because they are allience team tools and are practicly usless solo (with no alts) also theres nothing to really rival a supercarrier except a titan and we see plenty of both, unlike the cyna which is the most expensive option out of hundred(s?) of other FAR cheaper options with comparable stats.
BadPlebe	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Sphit Ker INB4 trolls and **heads. Prove me wrong by providing a hard counter that actually work. Prove me wrong by providing a counter the Angel Cartel ships have to fear and worry about. I give you one century to prove me wrong. Until then, don't even try. What is it, already? Support me, teach me or step off. i already gave you the hard counter, the bhaalgorn. will cap out and double web any of those ships and then eat them alive. you want a ship that angel cartel ships fear? coming within 30km of one is a death sentence for all things angel. oh, and theyre monsters in normal pvp too and dont need any special fit to ** machs and cynabals
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:06:00 - [29] I dont get it If any of those would meet a Curse it would Die. Well maybe not the Machariel for that one you would need something that can do 2000 + and is not fragile to keep a tackle on for something bigger to get scram web and DPS on. Pod
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.10 21:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Cipher Jones OP is blatantly trolling... That would make all other identical threads since Dominion trolls as well .. somehow doubt it. Bog standard dual-prop has no counters. You may be able to chase it off but the only way you can get a kill is if the pilot ****s up or you use a lol-gimmick fit. Reduce fittings to make the dual-prop damn hard to fit and all is well. Next! Yes, any thread comparing ships across 3 classes without bothering to mention what is OP about them, and asking for a counter to a non specific build is trolling.

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