Quote:

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Judging from their kill counts on Dotlan, a pair of bots (Raven plus an Exequror for looting and salvaging) will kill between 1200 and 1500 ships in 24 hours. They appeared to be chaining battleships, which I estimated to have an average loot value of around 700,000 ISK apiece. That adds up to between 840 million and 1.05 billion ISK per day. This is solely from alloys and does not include salvage or faction/officer spawns. The Tengus may be more efficient. One particularly productive system (ETO-OT in The Spire) is home to four Ravens and two Badgers that generated 4200 kills in a 24 hour period, which is about 3 billion isk per day.

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Originally by: Aessoroz

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There is so much wrong with eve right now that CCP just looks away from, theres still rampant exploiting, cloaky raven boats all over null, extremely obvious mining bots in hisec ice belts, and entire lowsec pipes filled with 200+ haulers per hour that are all courier bots.

Edit: You are also missing some ratting carrier bots from that list for Cobalt, probably because they ctrl-q the moment anything enters local.

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Since this is all out in 0.0, and there seems to be a lot of public outcry, why doesn't someone put together a corp/alliance to actually stomp on the macroer's faces?

People claim pvp-centric games like EVE can be self-policing, but this is true only if people can do actually step up and police it, rather than sitting around bragging about rattlesnakes with faction mods or slugging it out in 0.0 in their dual-tanked ravens and loldrake blobs.

I'll contribute 1/2 the cost to create a dedicated anti-macro'er ALLIANCE and main corp, and invite in anyone who would be willing to help put an end to this. I will step up and seek blue standings from nearby Alliances to pass through their space en route to these areas, and we'll just farm the crap out of the systems the macro'ers are in.

We can discuss full plans at a later date once enough people are together, but their are plenty of newbie merc corps that are looking to make a name for themselves as well, who cost pennies to hire, so we could surely swell our numbers a bit there as well.

I'm asking here if there would be any interest in uniting some people with work towards a common goal for the good of EVE. Also good would be getting a bit of sponsorship to afford alliance/corp purchase and initial start-up costs.

Reporting the news is an admirable goal; anyone interested in making the news?

I am reachable by EVE-mail.

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Originally by: Valuv

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Awesome work

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Originally by: Aessoroz

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Because an anti macro alliance would pretty much require taking over 0.0 sov which requires blobs and/or capitals. The bots are cloaky, the bots ctrl-q when entering systems out there.

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Originally by: Aessoroz

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Because an anti macro alliance would pretty much require taking over 0.0 sov which requires blobs and/or capitals. The bots are cloaky, the bots ctrl-q when entering systems out there.

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Let the bot's ctrl-q, they wont have anywhere to go if you fill their systems with small groups of people ratting for hours on end, all they will be able to do is QQ

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Since this is all out in 0.0, and there seems to be a lot of public outcry, why doesn't someone put together a corp/alliance to actually stomp on the macroer's faces?

People claim pvp-centric games like EVE can be self-policing, but this is true only if people can do actually step up and police it, rather than sitting around bragging about rattlesnakes with faction mods or slugging it out in 0.0 in their dual-tanked ravens and loldrake blobs.

I'll contribute 1/2 the cost to create a dedicated anti-macro'er ALLIANCE and main corp, and invite in anyone who would be willing to help put an end to this. I will step up and seek blue standings from nearby Alliances to pass through their space en route to these areas, and we'll just farm the crap out of the systems the macro'ers are in.

We can discuss full plans at a later date once enough people are together, but their are plenty of newbie merc corps that are looking to make a name for themselves as well, who cost pennies to hire, so we could surely swell our numbers a bit there as well.

I'm asking here if there would be any interest in uniting some people with work towards a common goal for the good of EVE. Also good would be getting a bit of sponsorship to afford alliance/corp purchase and initial start-up costs.

Reporting the news is an admirable goal; anyone interested in making the news?

I am reachable by EVE-mail.

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Originally by: Aessoroz

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Originally by: Aessoroz

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Because an anti macro alliance would pretty much require taking over 0.0 sov which requires blobs and/or capitals. The bots are cloaky, the bots ctrl-q when entering systems out there.

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Let the bot's ctrl-q, they wont have anywhere to go if you fill their systems with small groups of people ratting for hours on end, all they will be able to do is QQ

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O yes, you ratting in the space of a sov holding alliance definitely won't get the attentions of their actual pvpers/blobs/whatnot.

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Originally by: Karyon Khen

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So, where are bots from not-Russian nullsec?

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Originally by: Karyon Khen

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So, where are bots from not-Russian nullsec?

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Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217

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Beating the bots in 4 steps:
1) make cloaky alt
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) lol as they all ctrl-q or ss/cloak and wait for you to leave.

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Originally by: Corporal Punishment08

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Although the idea is quite nobel, the second anyone gets word of this corp, the moment any botter finds out about this, they will just add that alt+shift+q to their program for anyone entering local.

Also, you'd have to worry about the sov-holding alliance. And you'd have to worry about that characters' main. Once he finds out someone is out to get his precious bots, he will bring in his main, who has tons of isk to deal with the situation.

It's unfortunate, and a good cause, but maybe a bit futile

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Originally by: Corporal Punishment08

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Although the idea is quite nobel, the second anyone gets word of this corp, the moment any botter finds out about this, they will just add that alt+shift+q to their program for anyone entering local.

Also, you'd have to worry about the sov-holding alliance. And you'd have to worry about that characters' main. Once he finds out someone is out to get his precious bots, he will bring in his main, who has tons of isk to deal with the situation.

It's unfortunate, and a good cause, but maybe a bit futile

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This is why EVE cannot be self-policed, too much negativity!

If you squeeze the alliance that has the botting corps in it a little then hopefully you could give them reason to kick them. Filling 1/2 their sovereign space with cloaked PVP ships waiting to ravish them will surely do that.

Who cares if you attract attention if you make sure that every ship making an incursion into their space has a cloak fitted? Cloaking isn't hard to train, and if you dumped 5-8 people cloaked people in PVP ships into 10 different systems they hold then what exactly could they do? Blobs work great, but if you are simultaneously threatening 10 discrete systems then supercaps and blobs don't accomplish anything.

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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No. The real problem is that you won't be able to find enough people willing to for all intents and purposes camp a system to keep botters in check. You make no isk and you get no pew doing that. So whats the motivation again?

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Ratting the drone regions is in no way a serious problem. It doesn't produce any isk.

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Edited by: Rorriana on 11/02/2011 18:54:59
Just as an aside, it is a TRAVESTY that people sit around engaging in unproductive pewpew over a bit of space or some moongoo when they could be purging the game of bots. Surely people in EVE can band together long enough to purge these area's of the people who sit as overlords over an army of bot-filled corps, growing fat off of their rent payments made with ill-gotten gains.

What level of corruption and perversion of the game's integrity has to arise in these regions before we can raise a Grand Crusade to purge the land of bots and their masters?

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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No. The real problem is that you won't be able to find enough people willing to for all intents and purposes camp a system to keep botters in check. You make no isk and you get no pew doing that. So whats the motivation again?

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Altruism, a concept that I agree is probably foreign to most EVE players.

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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No. The real problem is that you won't be able to find enough people willing to for all intents and purposes camp a system to keep botters in check. You make no isk and you get no pew doing that. So whats the motivation again?

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Altruism, a concept that I agree is probably foreign to most EVE players.

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Originally by: chaireth cutestory

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If you would like to maintain indefinite 24 hour camps in three dozen solar systems, go right ahead. You realize the bots cloak and safe up and have limitless patience.

It doesn't sound like any fun at all to me, but you seem quite attached to the idea. Best of luck.

I think it's more productive to ask that CCP enforce the rules of the game, or change the rules to level the playing field.

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Originally by: Dhaul

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Ratting the drone regions is in no way a serious problem. It doesn't produce any isk.

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Quoting this in case he deletes

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Heck, maybe people who care about the game could donate, or just hire mercs directly if they'd prefer.

. . .

We cannot wait on CCP; doing nothing and waiting on CCP to make it better serves no better purpose than praying at a false idol.

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Originally by: chaireth cutestory

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Heck, maybe people who care about the game could donate, or just hire mercs directly if they'd prefer.

. . .

We cannot wait on CCP; doing nothing and waiting on CCP to make it better serves no better purpose than praying at a false idol.

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Silly me. I thought CCP cared about the game. I already donate $15 per month. That's quite enough for me.

You realize that with billions of isk per day in botted money, the botters could afford 50x as many mercs as you could.

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Quote:

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One particularly productive system (ETO-OT in The Spire) is home to four Ravens and two Badgers that generated 4200 kills in a 24 hour period...

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Edited by: Rorriana on 11/02/2011 19:31:21
I have to wonder if a check of the IPs of Zhim'Fufu would turn up any interesting 23/7 activity on CCP's end, since he seems determined to convenience everyone how little of a problem botting is and how it is impossible for players to solve it.

And for the record that isn't a subtle ad hominem attack, it's a direct accusation. As far as I am concerned your speech here has branded you botter or at the least botter-sympathizers.

The last thing we need is people trying to convince others to just look the other way when this type of activity is going down.

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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He should also realise that mission runners inject several orders of magnitude more isk and minerals into the game than botters so its not really an issue economy wise. The main rub is that it lets a few people make loads of isk with no real effort or risk which burns some players balls. Usually the poorer ones.

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Originally by: Brannoncyll

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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He should also realise that mission runners inject several orders of magnitude more isk and minerals into the game than botters so its not really an issue economy wise. The main rub is that it lets a few people make loads of isk with no real effort or risk which burns some players balls. Usually the poorer ones.

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So you don't mind that you have to work for your isk when some people do not? Or maybe you are a bot user yourself?

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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Rofl. Botters need to be stopped simply for abusing the game mechanics not because they are actually effecting the game in a measurable way.

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Originally by: Fearless M0F0

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Are you guys aware there are companies such as blockdos.com that would filter DDOS and redirect clean traffic to your servers?

My employer got DDOS, we called them and were back up in 15 mins, you have to pay them tought.

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Originally by: Rorriana

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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Rofl. Botters need to be stopped simply for abusing the game mechanics not because they are actually effecting the game in a measurable way.

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We should find out exactly how much they effect the game. I'll string together a bunch of words that will surely trigger something on CCP's side for forum moderation, and then hope whomever finds this post will point our good doctor Eyj=lfur Gu=mundsson to this thread to provide input.

t20 exploit sploitz hack cheat kutso IA favoritism sphere client macro petition player revolution sit-in bob MSN goons no local gave blueprint hacks band of brothers reloaded PL chribba

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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lol. Way to dodge the viable idea to make botters life difficult to pounce on the difference in our percieved effects botters have on the game. Do you want to stop botting or just rage about something irrelevant? Again the idea of having players set up afk cloaked ships in targets systems to keep botters from botting is like a lot of eft fits I see in ships and mods. They look great on paper but often end up being less pleasing or effective in action so come up with another way to get it done if you actually want to get someone to jump on the cause.

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Quote:

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One particularly productive system (ETO-OT in The Spire) is home to four Ravens and two Badgers that generated 4200 kills in a 24 hour period...

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So, I monitored the statistics on dotlan pretty closely back in the days and usually the top systems had 20k kills in 24 hours. But that quickly faded down to 8k and below.

If 4 bots do 4200 kills in 24 hours, then 20k kills are done by around 20 bots.

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Originally by: FlameGlow

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Quote:

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One particularly productive system (ETO-OT in The Spire) is home to four Ravens and two Badgers that generated 4200 kills in a 24 hour period...

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So, I monitored the statistics on dotlan pretty closely back in the days and usually the top systems had 20k kills in 24 hours. But that quickly faded down to 8k and below.

If 4 bots do 4200 kills in 24 hours, then 20k kills are done by around 20 bots.

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20k kills was done by doing drone horde anomalies(sanctum equivalent for drones) in minutes with smartbombs until CCP changed it so warp-in is far and points where rats spawn aren't in smartbomb range.

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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That means there are even fewer bots. And yes, the smartboming was a bit silly

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Originally by: Vortura

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I don't think CCP wants to take care of botters. Think about it. In your list there are 82 individual accounts (there may be 83 to 85, but I couldn't tell the separation). Each count is paying 14.99 (or stimulating the EvE Economy through time card purchases). That is $1,228.18 a month income they would lose from those 82 accounts, or $17,750.16 a year. You can bet there are just say there are 3 x that many botters in all of EvE, 246. That is $3,687.54 a month or $44,250.48 a year of loss revenue. Seems like chump change, but in the grand scheme of things, everything adds up to thousands more.

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Originally by: Iceni

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De-botting the game could be sooo easy. Like having an in-game message that needs a simple human response every so often. A bit like a 'dead man's handle' that train drivers have, to make sure that someone is still breathing at the controls.

So c'mon CCP, why not?

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Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

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An alliance with 2000 people needs to rat only 1 hour per day to generate the same income as those 100 bots ratting 20 hours a day.

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Originally by: Vortura

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I don't think CCP wants to take care of botters. Think about it. In your list there are 82 individual accounts (there may be 83 to 85, but I couldn't tell the separation). Each count is paying 14.99 (or stimulating the EvE Economy through time card purchases). That is $1,228.18 a month income they would lose from those 82 accounts, or $17,750.16 a year. You can bet there are just say there are 3 x that many botters in all of EvE, 246. That is $3,687.54 a month or $44,250.48 a year of loss revenue. Seems like chump change, but in the grand scheme of things, everything adds up to thousands more.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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The best way to combat 0.0 botters is to place AFK cloaked alts in their systems

the sooner people start realizing it, the faster we can have a solution that actually works. Only problem is that somebody would need to run a computer lab for all the accounts. Basically a bot farm of their own against the bots

Or CCP can just nerf local chat

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Originally by: Vortura

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I don't think CCP wants to take care of botters. Think about it. In your list there are 82 individual accounts (there may be 83 to 85, but I couldn't tell the separation). Each count is paying 14.99 (or stimulating the EvE Economy through time card purchases). That is $1,228.18 a month income they would lose from those 82 accounts, or $17,750.16 a year. You can bet there are just say there are 3 x that many botters in all of EvE, 246. That is $3,687.54 a month or $44,250.48 a year of loss revenue. Seems like chump change, but in the grand scheme of things, everything adds up to thousands more.

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Originally by: Marconus Orion

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riverini,

Why did you only focus on bots in the drone regions instead of gathering information from all four corners of the galaxy so you could present it to the EVE community in an unbiased format? No one will take your article seriously because it will be viewed as some meta gaming of the Northern Coalitions secondary approach to fight the Russians in the Drone regions because their first attempt failed.

You really should have waited till you had dirt on everyone first and present it all at the same time. Now, no one will take you for more than some biased reporter pushing NC propaganda, like you always have.

Just a bit of advice for you.

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Originally by: Navirios

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Lol you guys dont understand ****....

If you actually tried to realize how bots work ,rather than talking crap on the forums, you would come to the conclusion that they abuse the ability to read pixels from the client.

BitBlt, ReadPixel in C++
PixelGetColor, PixelSearch in AutoIT just to name a few.

~~~~~~ S O L U T I O N ~~~~~~~

CCP make it impossible to read such data from the client.

There you go, problem solved ...

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Originally by: Dr Fighter

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"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"

Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.

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Originally by: Taedrin

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Originally by: Navirios

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Lol you guys dont understand ****....

If you actually tried to realize how bots work ,rather than talking crap on the forums, you would come to the conclusion that they abuse the ability to read pixels from the client.

BitBlt, ReadPixel in C++
PixelGetColor, PixelSearch in AutoIT just to name a few.

~~~~~~ S O L U T I O N ~~~~~~~

CCP make it impossible to read such data from the client.

There you go, problem solved ...

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If it's impossible to read this data, then how the hell is a human going to be able to read it off of the monitor? Clue for the clueless: sooner or later, the data must exist in memory in an unencrypted format in order to be presented to the user.

There are things you can do to make it harder to programmatically access this data, but it will never be *impossible*.

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Originally by: Marconus Orion

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riverini,

Why did you only focus on bots in the drone regions instead of gathering information from all four corners of the galaxy so you could present it to the EVE community in an unbiased format? No one will take your article seriously because it will be viewed as some meta gaming of the Northern Coalitions secondary approach to fight the Russians in the Drone regions because their first attempt failed.

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Originally by: laksmi2

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bots having no influence on the economy? drone region bots pump 100 billion in aloys into the market every day. and this number pales in comparision to the minerals gained from the alloys that are made straight into hundreds of supercaps.

bots devaluate human work they need to go.

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Originally by: Abbot Nails

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there are bots everywhere in 0.0 and i am sure Riverini knows this.

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Originally by: Abbot Nails

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he also stated that it was a "Teaser" which is not a complete list but something to make you take notice.

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Originally by: Ifly Uwalk

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I'm waiting for a list of all the bots operating in the Vale of the Silent area. That should be interesting.

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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Boo hoo. Cry some more.

Originally by: Marconus Orion

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riverini,

Why did you only focus on bots in the drone regions instead of gathering information from all four corners of the galaxy so you could present it to the EVE community in an unbiased format? No one will take your article seriously because it will be viewed as some meta gaming of the Northern Coalitions secondary approach to fight the Russians in the Drone regions because their first attempt failed.

You really should have waited till you had dirt on everyone first and present it all at the same time. Now, no one will take you for more than some biased reporter pushing NC propaganda, like you always have.

Just a bit of advice for you.

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Originally by: Iceni

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De-botting the game could be sooo easy. Like having an in-game message that needs a simple human response every so often. A bit like a 'dead man's handle' that train drivers have, to make sure that someone is still breathing at the controls.

So c'mon CCP, why not?

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Originally by: mechtech

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Originally by: Taedrin

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Originally by: Navirios

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Lol you guys dont understand ****....

If you actually tried to realize how bots work ,rather than talking crap on the forums, you would come to the conclusion that they abuse the ability to read pixels from the client.

BitBlt, ReadPixel in C++
PixelGetColor, PixelSearch in AutoIT just to name a few.

~~~~~~ S O L U T I O N ~~~~~~~

CCP make it impossible to read such data from the client.

There you go, problem solved ...

---

If it's impossible to read this data, then how the hell is a human going to be able to read it off of the monitor? Clue for the clueless: sooner or later, the data must exist in memory in an unencrypted format in order to be presented to the user.

There are things you can do to make it harder to programmatically access this data, but it will never be *impossible*.

---

My understanding is that many of the bots do read from memory. OCR/screen scraping is much less efficient and accurate than reading from memory values directly. It sounds like CCP needs to lock down the client better.

I wish CCP would just implement some kind of punkbuster/Warden type of scanner to add another layer of security. I know that I may be in the minority, but I've seen games pull it off pretty well. Of course the latest bots are always a step ahead, but the name of the game is making it harder to maintain and upgrade bots, as well as thinning the herd by immediately banning all of the people who download old bot versions.

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Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas

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Originally by: mechtech

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Originally by: Taedrin

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Originally by: Navirios

---

Lol you guys dont understand ****....

If you actually tried to realize how bots work ,rather than talking crap on the forums, you would come to the conclusion that they abuse the ability to read pixels from the client.

BitBlt, ReadPixel in C++
PixelGetColor, PixelSearch in AutoIT just to name a few.

~~~~~~ S O L U T I O N ~~~~~~~

CCP make it impossible to read such data from the client.

There you go, problem solved ...

---

If it's impossible to read this data, then how the hell is a human going to be able to read it off of the monitor? Clue for the clueless: sooner or later, the data must exist in memory in an unencrypted format in order to be presented to the user.

There are things you can do to make it harder to programmatically access this data, but it will never be *impossible*.

---

My understanding is that many of the bots do read from memory. OCR/screen scraping is much less efficient and accurate than reading from memory values directly. It sounds like CCP needs to lock down the client better.

I wish CCP would just implement some kind of punkbuster/Warden type of scanner to add another layer of security. I know that I may be in the minority, but I've seen games pull it off pretty well. Of course the latest bots are always a step ahead, but the name of the game is making it harder to maintain and upgrade bots, as well as thinning the herd by immediately banning all of the people who download old bot versions.

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Let's do what Sony did and install what amounts to a root kit on every users PC. Then we'll be extra safe for sure. (Until someone comes up with a way around it.) The answer is for CCP to go down to the GM room, open the door, pick a guy from that at random and tell him "ok, for the next 2 weeks you are identifying and banning botters."

It can't get any simpler than that.

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Originally by: Caldariftw123

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Some drm/anti-cheat device like that by CCP would result in me swiftly cancelling my accounts, and I know many others would follow .. just look at the backlash games get in review sites, boycotting, etc., due to draconian drm. Then, to top it all off, it would fail to have any impact because it would take 12minutes for some guy to figure out a crack for it. I don't think ccp are stupid enough to think any automated system would work as anything more than a temporary inconvenience to botters and humans alike.

What you say is true, they just need to put some GMs onto it. If a player, without access to the server side info., can put together a pile of data like this and connect some VERY SIMPLE dots, there's no excuse for ccp not doing the same. So it comes down to do they want to lose the subscription money now, due to banning bots, or lose subscription money later due to the game going to **** if the botting gets out of hand?

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Originally by: MpozoY

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The main difference between botting in the NC and the DR is that there aren't any humans in the DR to cover up the bots.

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Originally by: Marconus Orion

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riverini,

Why did you only focus on bots in the drone regions instead of gathering information from all four corners of the galaxy so you could present it to the EVE community in an unbiased format? No one will take your article seriously because it will be viewed as some meta gaming of the Northern Coalitions secondary approach to fight the Russians in the Drone regions because their first attempt failed.

You really should have waited till you had dirt on everyone first and present it all at the same time. Now, no one will take you for more than some biased reporter pushing NC propaganda, like you always have.

Just a bit of advice for you.

---

Originally by: Jonathan Malcom

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Originally by: Caldariftw123

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Some drm/anti-cheat device like that by CCP would result in me swiftly cancelling my accounts, and I know many others would follow .. just look at the backlash games get in review sites, boycotting, etc., due to draconian drm. Then, to top it all off, it would fail to have any impact because it would take 12minutes for some guy to figure out a crack for it. I don't think ccp are stupid enough to think any automated system would work as anything more than a temporary inconvenience to botters and humans alike.

What you say is true, they just need to put some GMs onto it. If a player, without access to the server side info., can put together a pile of data like this and connect some VERY SIMPLE dots, there's no excuse for ccp not doing the same. So it comes down to do they want to lose the subscription money now, due to banning bots, or lose subscription money later due to the game going to **** if the botting gets out of hand?

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"DRM" stands for "Digital Rights Management." Educate yourself here.

What is being suggested is an anti-cheating mechanism in the vein of Punkbuster. Nearly every multiplayer FPS, and certainly every major one, has a similar anti-cheating mechanism. They are reasonably effective and unintrusive. So stop raging about something you don't understand.

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Originally by: Jonathan Malcom

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Originally by: Caldariftw123

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Some drm/anti-cheat device like that by CCP would result in me swiftly cancelling my accounts, and I know many others would follow .. just look at the backlash games get in review sites, boycotting, etc., due to draconian drm. Then, to top it all off, it would fail to have any impact because it would take 12minutes for some guy to figure out a crack for it. I don't think ccp are stupid enough to think any automated system would work as anything more than a temporary inconvenience to botters and humans alike.

What you say is true, they just need to put some GMs onto it. If a player, without access to the server side info., can put together a pile of data like this and connect some VERY SIMPLE dots, there's no excuse for ccp not doing the same. So it comes down to do they want to lose the subscription money now, due to banning bots, or lose subscription money later due to the game going to **** if the botting gets out of hand?

---

"DRM" stands for "Digital Rights Management." Educate yourself here.

What is being suggested is an anti-cheating mechanism in the vein of Punkbuster. Nearly every multiplayer FPS, and certainly every major one, has a similar anti-cheating mechanism. They are reasonably effective and unintrusive. So stop raging about something you don't understand.

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Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217

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Beating the bots in 4 steps:
1) make cloaky alt
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) lol as they all ctrl-q or ss/cloak and wait for you to leave.

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Originally by: Emperor Cheney

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Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217

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Beating the bots in 4 steps:
1) make cloaky alt
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) lol as they all ctrl-q or ss/cloak and wait for you to leave.

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So a human has to login to ensure a robot doesn't.

That is the opposite of efficiency.

---

Originally by: syphurous

---

All this bot whine, and no one has complained about the 0.01 isk market bots.

---

Originally by: syphurous

---

All this bot whine, and no one has complained about the 0.01 isk market bots.

---

Originally by: Gareth Ultari

---

Two quick changes would sort this out
Make pve content variable (ex, making officers unsoloable)
Get rid of newbie corps for anyone more than 1 month old

The first change will burn ratting and missioning bots (they would die multiple times, unless they decide to bot in packs, which would be less profitable)
The second would like us wardec bot mining corps in hisec

Problem solved

---

Originally by: Camios

---

It's pretty efficient actually.

1) make alt with cloaky t3
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) ask for a reasonable ransom to leave the system
5) get the money
6) report them

But it may go in the wrong direction:

1) make alt with cloaky t3
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) ask for a reasonable ransom to leave the system
5) get the money
6) report them
7) you get banned because CCP believe you have bought isk from them.

---

Originally by: Internet White Knight

---

Originally by: syphurous

---

All this bot whine, and no one has complained about the 0.01 isk market bots.

---

Check the Market Discussion forums. Every fifth thread is a bot whine.

---

Originally by: Camios

---

Originally by: Emperor Cheney

---

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217

---

Beating the bots in 4 steps:
1) make cloaky alt
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) lol as they all ctrl-q or ss/cloak and wait for you to leave.

---

So a human has to login to ensure a robot doesn't.

That is the opposite of efficiency.

---

It's pretty efficient actually.

1) make alt with cloaky t3
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) ask for a reasonable ransom to leave the system
5) get the money
6) report them

But it may go in the wrong direction:

1) make alt with cloaky t3
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) ask for a reasonable ransom to leave the system
5) get the money
6) report them
7) you get banned because CCP believe you have bought isk from them.

---

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

---

Originally by: laksmi2

---

bots having no influence on the economy? drone region bots pump 100 billion in aloys into the market every day. and this number pales in comparision to the minerals gained from the alloys that are made straight into hundreds of supercaps.

bots devaluate human work they need to go.

---

That 100 bil a day in isk and minerals is like saying a billion dollars is alot of money to a modern industrialized country. Yeah its sure a hell of a lot more than you personally have or can easily make but then again when put up against the amount of isk and minerals mission runners inject into the ecomomy each day its a literal pittance. Or are you saying bots now outnumber mission runners?

---

Originally by: Arrakis Shai

---

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

---

Originally by: laksmi2

---

bots having no influence on the economy? drone region bots pump 100 billion in aloys into the market every day. and this number pales in comparision to the minerals gained from the alloys that are made straight into hundreds of supercaps.

bots devaluate human work they need to go.

---

That 100 bil a day in isk and minerals is like saying a billion dollars is alot of money to a modern industrialized country. Yeah its sure a hell of a lot more than you personally have or can easily make but then again when put up against the amount of isk and minerals mission runners inject into the ecomomy each day its a literal pittance. Or are you saying bots now outnumber mission runners?

---

IMO, comparing the income to a small nation is a great way of looking at the problem. From what ive seen (and admittedly im mainly a mission runner, so correct me if im wrong) In Eve, when you wage war, its not so much a combatant war, its a resources and financial war. Very similar to the way a war is won in the real world; He who can maintain his forces and extend his supply chains the farthest and longest will win.

Combatants can be resurected within seconds, however putting them in ships and arming them costs resources and isk. these then have to be supplied from another arm of the corp to keep the war machine running.

if part of that war machine is litirally a machine, it gives un-fair advantage to those not using bots for income/recource gathering. or forces them to employ bots to even the battle field.

why should this bother us mission runners (well those of us that dont bot atleast)? it increases the ammount of time you need to run missions in order to keep up with the inflation caused by automated isk generation.

---

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

---

Originally by: laksmi2

---

bots having no influence on the economy? drone region bots pump 100 billion in aloys into the market every day. and this number pales in comparision to the minerals gained from the alloys that are made straight into hundreds of supercaps.

bots devaluate human work they need to go.

---

That 100 bil a day in isk and minerals is like saying a billion dollars is alot of money to a modern industrialized country. Yeah its sure a hell of a lot more than you personally have or can easily make but then again when put up against the amount of isk and minerals mission runners inject into the ecomomy each day its a literal pittance. Or are you saying bots now outnumber mission runners?

---

Originally by: Ariane VoxDei

---

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

---

Originally by: laksmi2

---

bots having no influence on the economy? drone region bots pump 100 billion in aloys into the market every day. and this number pales in comparision to the minerals gained from the alloys that are made straight into hundreds of supercaps.

bots devaluate human work they need to go.

---

That 100 bil a day in isk and minerals is like saying a billion dollars is alot of money to a modern industrialized country. Yeah its sure a hell of a lot more than you personally have or can easily make but then again when put up against the amount of isk and minerals mission runners inject into the ecomomy each day its a literal pittance. Or are you saying bots now outnumber mission runners?

---

Who says there are no bots that can run missions?
Anyway, of course that crapton of minerals influences the economy.
It severely shifts mineral prices, already evidenced a few weeks after the regions opened and the problem has been there since.
Shortly before drone regions opened:
nocx at 500+
isogen at 115

After drone regions, omber (the previous main Isogen source) became worst hisec ore.
Iso dropped to 62 by november
Nocx value dropped to 200 at first and took another half year to crawl down to 110.
Zydrine, initially gutted from 3k to 1.2k recovered to fluctuate between 2 and 2.6k.
Eventually, when W-space came along, which opened access to incredible ABC supplies, it fell rapidly to current levels.

Mission loot nerf hardly moved mineral prices, proving the exaggerated claims about its influence to be exactly that. Wildly exaggerated.
But they got what they wanted: attention to things that were not to do with their own activities in null.
It pretty much must have gone something like this: hm, interesting numbers from CCP, we can probably use them to blame someone. "look look, missions are the boogiemen".

Only the recent drone compound changes has shifted things significantly. Proving once again that they are in fact a very significant part of the supply.

Don't give us that crap about it being a drop in the bucket. Insurance conversion. Not nearly as efficient as it used to be, but it still has value.
Put in a little isk and a lot of minerals and out comes a lot of isk.

Unlike LP stores. Put in a lot of isk and some LP and out comes a item.
And oh my, if a ship/module comes out, you also have to put in a meta 0 version and out comes the fewer-minerals-if-recycled faction version.

And yes, bots and macroers probably outnumber real mission runners. And miners, and ratters and "sanctumers".
In terms of: Missions run (both combat and courier), m3 of ore mined, officer/faction spawns harvested, sanctums cleared.
Where have you been the last 4 years? Playing wow?

Who isnt thinking that "unholy rage was merely a setback"?
We know they are out there in very considerable numbers.
Mining.
Missioning, with couriers being the most visible, with all the frequent hauler traffic.
Running sanctums and their equivalents.
Ratting, including camping inside last room of static plexes.
And I would not be surprised if probing has also been automated or haxxed by now.

Btw, you "lets wage player war on them" advocates.
Yes, it is admirable and so on, but think what you are up against.
Bots dont need rest. They dont get tired, they dont lose patience. They have much more time on their hands than you.

---

Originally by: Trillian Nero

---

All CCP has to do is to run it's own player bot in all systems simulating a "real player" being present.

---

Originally by: Mister Normal

---

Originally by: Trillian Nero

---

All CCP has to do is to run it's own player bot in all systems simulating a "real player" being present.

---

All CCP has to do is pull said data from their servers and run a simple sum calculation through. How long are the suspected bots online for? When do they log on? Are they logging on at the exact same time day after day?

5 minutes work.

MANY happy people.

---

Originally by: Ephemeron

---

The best way to combat 0.0 botters is to place AFK cloaked alts in their systems

the sooner people start realizing it, the faster we can have a solution that actually works. Only problem is that somebody would need to run a computer lab for all the accounts. Basically a bot farm of their own against the bots

Or CCP can just nerf local chat

---

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

---

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 14/02/2011 06:10:59

Originally by: Ephemeron

---

The best way to combat 0.0 botters is to place AFK cloaked alts in their systems

the sooner people start realizing it, the faster we can have a solution that actually works. Only problem is that somebody would need to run a computer lab for all the accounts. Basically a bot farm of their own against the bots

Or CCP can just nerf local chat

---

This is true.

Prior to the netcode nerf, I had just started to advertise my new corporation 'Cloakers' with the intention to do exactly what you describe.

Just to clarify, there is no need for botfarm. All you need to do is:

1. Create 1 alt on a spare character slot if you have one.
2. Train basic cloaking and take your character out to a known botting system.
3. When you log off at the end of the day, load your afk cloaker and idle him / her in system while you go to work, sleep, other RL stuff.

Basically, apart from losing 1 character slot, you lose absolutely nothing else.

If even 0.5% of EvE players did this we could fill a good portion of all alliances 0.0 botting space with afk anti-botting characters and deny them their trump card, the ability to use entry of non-allied characters as a flag to quit, dock or cloak.

---

Originally by: Arrakis Shai

---

why should this bother us mission runners (well those of us that dont bot atleast)? it increases the ammount of time you need to run missions in order to keep up with the inflation caused by automated isk generation.

---

Originally by: Ombey

---

I am unfamiliar with PvE mechanics- if you log off while under aggessions to/from rats, do you disappear as if unagressed? Basically, does rat aggression count like normal aggression?

If not, it should. This would be legit, and would help CtrlQ merchants not exploit it.

Secondly, warp scramming NPCs should be much more prevalent. Always seemed silly to me that rats don't use scrams very much. Perhaps raise bounties to compensate for added risk?

---

Originally by: Emperor Cheney

---

I set up an alt account, and take months training it (and paying subscriptions) to run a t3, or purchase a character. Then I spend a lot of isk on that t3. I park that in character in a system. And the "payoff" is that a character I suspect to be a robot with minimal if any human oversight eve mails me and pays me to move, should the human even notice me, rather than just move systems.

No, that does not sound like a good plan. On any level.

Oh, and I would need to leave a computer on 23/7 to make it work too. This plan just keeps getting better!


edit to add: why does it even need to be a t3? why am I even answering this crazypost? why?

---

Originally by: E man Industries

---

Edited by: E man Industries on 14/02/2011 16:41:30
And yes botters pay as well but for every sub a botter represents is 2 people who quit over bots.

---

Originally by: E man Industries

---

And yes botters pay as well but for every sub a botter represents is 2 people who quit over bots.

---

Originally by: E man Industries

---

And yes botters pay as well but for every sub a botter represents is 2 people who quit over bots.

---

Originally by: Ingvar Angst

---

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/02/2011 17:21:44

Originally by: E man Industries

---

And yes botters pay as well but for every sub a botter represents is 2 people who quit over bots.

---

Aren't they making so much isk that they simply spend some of it on plex instead of paying cash per month?

---

Originally by: Ingvar Angst

---

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/02/2011 17:21:44

Originally by: E man Industries

---

And yes botters pay as well but for every sub a botter represents is 2 people who quit over bots.

---

Aren't they making so much isk that they simply spend some of it on plex instead of paying cash per month?

---

Originally by: riverini

---

Ohh also, CCP, I am already informed via anonymous drop-box several times about you "ebil" plan against RMTers, you know the "Final Solution to the Isk Selling Problem", yet i would like to confirm it from the "MAN" himself, please convo me via mail if u will, I really think it's brilliant and you guys are doing amazing!.

anyways interested, it's published in k.com foreplay.

German Giggles
R

---

Originally by: Eden Love

---

...stuff... A permanent IP BAN!

moar stuff

---

Originally by: Elzon1

---

Interesting

So, since the "Final Solution to the Isk Selling Problem" is in a private forum, could someone give general details of what has been said. I heard about some kind of new unholy rage that was supposed to happen this month with a possibility that an automated process of finding and banning bots has been created , but I can't confirm any of this. Anyone have any general info on this?

---

Originally by: E man Industries

---

Those bots that where reported should have thier isk tracked and see who the main acount that benifits is...that player should be banned.

People would not use expendible bots if their main was going to be completely wiped off the server as a result.

---

Quote:

---

And yes botters pay as well but for every sub a botter represents is 2 people who quit over bots.

---

Originally by: Buzz Narrenschiff

---

This is honestly just an idea I've had buzzing around re: bots, and I fully expect it to get mauled out...but if the goal of botting is ISK, then how about implementing a diminishing return in the areas bots work in?

This example is purely hypothetical, with numbers pulled out of mid-air, but:

Bot X has been running missions straight for 6 hours. After that 6 hours, Bot X suffers an automatic 50-75% reduction in mish/rat rewards until downtime. Pull the same idea for mining.

Of course, the metrics would have to be adjusted so as to just hit bots predominantly, and not dedicated "sitting there" mishrunners or miners. Perhaps if CCP did some actual study into player behavior vs. bot behavior, they can find a decent metric to use.

---

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

---

Client based solutions do not work because you can never trust the client, stop spamming crap like punk-duffer.

The solution is server-side Bayesian probability filtering of behaviour. Increased score as a factor of time on-line, repetitive behaviour, reports, IP addresses and subnets of previously identified bots, tune the Bayesian net over time.

---

Originally by: Professor Slocombe

---

I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.

---

Originally by: Sraik Doubter

---

@Myra

I agree that this is a problem that is likely difficult to solve. However, since you mention the issue of CCP being stretched to manage server load, remember back to the fancy plots of server load relief that CCP showed us as a result of "unholy rage". If eliminating bots has this effect, isn't it worth it to CCP (manpower-wise) to at least attempt to tackle the problem.

---

Originally by: Sraik Doubter

---

Also, not all of the potential ideas to get at this issue are intrusive to the typical player.

---

Originally by: Professor Slocombe

---

I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.

---

Originally by: Whyumadtho

---

Is botting really this rampant?

---

Originally by: Rhes

---

Originally by: Whyumadtho

---

Is botting really this rampant?

---

No. You have to consider the source...Evenews24 is literally the Fox News of the Eve world.

---

Originally by: Aessoroz

---

There is so much wrong with eve right now that CCP just looks away from, theres still rampant exploiting, cloaky raven boats all over null, extremely obvious mining bots in hisec ice belts, and entire lowsec pipes filled with 200+ haulers per hour that are all courier bots.

Edit: You are also missing some ratting carrier bots from that list for Cobalt, probably because they ctrl-q the moment anything enters local.

---

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

---

bot program now has to figure out what to shoot and what not to shoot so it can gtfo of the belt.

---

Originally by: Camios

---

Originally by: Emperor Cheney

---

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217

---

Beating the bots in 4 steps:
1) make cloaky alt
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) lol as they all ctrl-q or ss/cloak and wait for you to leave.

---

So a human has to login to ensure a robot doesn't.

That is the opposite of efficiency.

---

It's pretty efficient actually.

1) make alt with cloaky t3
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) ask for a reasonable ransom to leave the system
5) get the money
6) report them

But it may go in the wrong direction:

1) make alt with cloaky t3
2) warp to systems frequented by said 23/7 farmer ravens
3) Safespot and cloak
4) ask for a reasonable ransom to leave the system
5) get the money
6) report them
7) you get banned because CCP believe you have bought isk from them.

---

Originally by: Dessie Enta

---

I can't access this Evenews24.com website at all. Have tried lots of other sites so I don't think it's my connection. But the site is definitely up according to those sites that check if another site is up or not. What's the go there? Using a VPN connection I can get to the site fine...

---

Originally by: Rhes

---

Originally by: Whyumadtho

---

Is botting really this rampant?

---

No. You have to consider the source...Evenews24 is literally the Fox News of the Eve world.

---

Quote:

---

This would go a lot faster if there were systems in Deklein that weren't botted to hell so I could jew up a Maelstrom. I mean, Jesus Christ, Goons. ****.

---

Originally by: Rorriana

---

Edited by: Rorriana on 11/02/2011 19:13:57

Originally by: chaireth cutestory

---

If you would like to maintain indefinite 24 hour camps in three dozen solar systems, go right ahead. You realize the bots cloak and safe up and have limitless patience.

It doesn't sound like any fun at all to me, but you seem quite attached to the idea. Best of luck.

I think it's more productive to ask that CCP enforce the rules of the game, or change the rules to level the playing field.

---

That is unlikely to happen. CCP obviously lacks either resources, knowledge, or motivation in this case, and quite frankly it is a problem that players can solve.

---

Originally by: riverini

---

Our reporter petitioned each and every one of them, so far CCP seems to contempt with them making about 800 - 1bil a day.

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Lets get a more accurate source then, captainktainer from your TEST brosefs about his ISK making, who is a atm among most reliable sources:

Quote:

---

This would go a lot faster if there were systems in Deklein that weren't botted to hell so I could jew up a Maelstrom. I mean, Jesus Christ, Goons. ****.

---

---

Originally by: Othran

---

Sadly the only way CCP ever deals with stuff like this is when you take it public.

To CCP staff - I'm sure you THINK you're dealing with it but you aren't. Not in any measurable way.

---

Originally by: Richard Aiel

---

Hell, back when I played WoW I reported a botter for a week straight and at the end the GM straight told me to stop reporting it. I asked him for a reputable botting service to use then and got a 48 hour ban lol

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2011 12:21:43
They migrated yesterday, maybe your ISP hasnt refreshed its DNS cache yet (although right after that happened I got a nice message from their old address, maybe that is down now though).

---

Originally by: Dessie Enta

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2011 12:21:43
They migrated yesterday, maybe your ISP hasnt refreshed its DNS cache yet (although right after that happened I got a nice message from their old address, maybe that is down now though).

---

I tried changing to some free DNS services (OpenDNS, etc). Still can't load the page. Seems maybe my ISP's IP ranges have been blocked. My friend on the same ISP has the same issue. Tried renewing IP a few times couldn't get through.

---

Originally by: Angel of Night

---

Botting is against EULA. CCP has written EULA and needs to force the content of it. If CCP agrees that we all should start botting and efficiently totally ruin the game in few months, they should change the EULA to reflect the current double standards.

Only way to safe the game from total economy disaster is to act now. The client will need serious security upgrade and all current bots including their assets (like pos structures) need to be removed from game as soon as possible.

This is my persinal opinnion and I will vote towards this solution with my personal monthly subscription, even the vote doesnt weight much in this boat.

Nuff said.

(Thx to Eve News24 staff for supporting the cause)

---

Originally by: Jack BingKaria

---

If bots get out of game.

The mineral market will crash as well, there will be a HUGE decrease of new minerals on market.
Means miners will earn way more isk, however a lot of ships will become too expensive to use, due to bots gone and mining take "real man" hours.

CCP will get a balance problem, since BPO's amounts are basically BALANCED with having bots in game.

---

Originally by: Jack BingKaria

---

If bots get out of game.

The mineral market will crash as well, there will be a HUGE decrease of new minerals on market.
Means miners will earn way more isk, however a lot of ships will become too expensive to use, due to bots gone and mining take "real man" hours.

CCP will get a balance problem, since BPO's amounts are basically BALANCED with having bots in game.

---

Originally by: Jack BingKaria

---

If bots get out of game.

The mineral market will crash as well, there will be a HUGE decrease of new minerals on market.
Means miners will earn way more isk, however a lot of ships will become too expensive to use, due to bots gone and mining take "real man" hours.

CCP will get a balance problem, since BPO's amounts are basically BALANCED with having bots in game.

---

Originally by: Rhes

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Lets get a more accurate source then, captainktainer from your TEST brosefs about his ISK making, who is a atm among most reliable sources:

Quote:

---

This would go a lot faster if there were systems in Deklein that weren't botted to hell so I could jew up a Maelstrom. I mean, Jesus Christ, Goons. ****.

---

---

Are there bots in nullsec? Sure. Is the "problem" as rampant and as serious as evenews24 is going on about? No, it's not.

For EN24 stirring up drama provides them more pageviews where actual facts and objectivity don't.

---

Originally by: Wacktopia

---

This is great news - hop you can overcome the issue.

It's really interesting that the botters(?) launched a DOS attack on you like that.

Can't wait to see the list up.

Nice work.

---

Originally by: Jack Gilligan

---

Originally by: Wacktopia

---

This is great news - hop you can overcome the issue.

It's really interesting that the botters(?) launched a DOS attack on you like that.

Can't wait to see the list up.

Nice work.

---

To the RMT Russians, Internet Spaceships are MORE than just Serious Business. These are the same guys that, for example offered to go cut the power lines to the house of an opponent leader to disrupt them in a fight... DoS'ing a website for having the audacity to post irrefutable evidence that XDeath and Solar are botters who should be banned would just be par for the course for them.

I'm not saying there aren't bots running elsewhere, there are. When we invaded Tenerifis and Impass, for example, we encountered AAA citizens bots still ratting away. Venal is (or was) lousy with NC and Goon bots. These probably exist in every region. But for sheer scale, NOTHING can compare to the operation going on in the Bot Regions.

Anyone who roams 0.0 looking for pvp knows where the bots are and who is doing it.

---

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

---

How funny would it be if the botters worked for CCP

---

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

---

Id say be careful what you expose to the light. Get a story too big an youll get banned for exposing it

---

Originally by: Ingvar Angst

---

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

---

How funny would it be if the botters worked for CCP

---

Indirectly, they do. Every plex they trade for is real money in CCPs pockets. That's why there appears to be a conflict of interest. Who knows how much money per month they'd lose if they actually stopped the botters? Would they consider it worth it to do so, or is the real world cash too much to toss aside?

---

Originally by: Rhes

---

Originally by: Furb Killer

---

Lets get a more accurate source then, captainktainer from your TEST brosefs about his ISK making, who is a atm among most reliable sources:

Quote:

---

This would go a lot faster if there were systems in Deklein that weren't botted to hell so I could jew up a Maelstrom. I mean, Jesus Christ, Goons. ****.

---

---

Are there bots in nullsec? Sure. Is the "problem" as rampant and as serious as evenews24 is going on about? No, it's not.

For EN24 stirring up drama provides them more pageviews where actual facts and objectivity don't.

---

Originally by: Jack BingKaria

---

If bots get out of game.

The mineral market will crash as well, there will be a HUGE decrease of new minerals on market.
Means miners will earn way more isk, however a lot of ships will become too expensive to use, due to bots gone and mining take "real man" hours.

CCP will get a balance problem, since BPO's amounts are basically BALANCED with having bots in game.

---

Originally by: Ingvar Angst

---

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

---

How funny would it be if the botters worked for CCP

---

Indirectly, they do. Every plex they trade for is real money in CCPs pockets. That's why there appears to be a conflict of interest. Who knows how much money per month they'd lose if they actually stopped the botters? Would they consider it worth it to do so, or is the real world cash too much to toss aside?

---

Originally by: Professor Slocombe

---

I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.

---

Originally by: Myra2007

---

Originally by: Ingvar Angst

---

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

---

How funny would it be if the botters worked for CCP

---

Indirectly, they do. Every plex they trade for is real money in CCPs pockets. That's why there appears to be a conflict of interest. Who knows how much money per month they'd lose if they actually stopped the botters? Would they consider it worth it to do so, or is the real world cash too much to toss aside?

---

I don't believe that is a fair judgement. Consider this:

evil_botter makes 350m isk per day (~ 1 PLEX). He needs one PLEX per month to sustain the account. That leaves him with at least 10b isk for the regular month. Now what is evil_botter going to do with all that isk? Via third party websites he could sell those isk directly to other players. Let's say he sells 350m isk for 10$ while a PLEX is 15$ (not sure how accurate that is but it's just an example).

stupid_joe who needs isk real urgently comes along and is happy to see that he can save $5 on this deal. Now instead of buying a PLEX from CCP for $15 and selling it for 350m on the market he just buys 350m isk directly for only $10. So that COSTS CCP $15! The damage done here is very real. So while the botter may buy 1 PLEX himself he also keeps 29 stupid people from buying a PLEX every single month.

Now how exactly does that put CCP in the green? Please explain that to me maybe I just don't get it.

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Whistleblowers tend to get banned for some mythical "EULA Violation" when if you read the EULA (which is probably illegal in many, if not most locales, EULA legality is certainly FAR from established precedent) it is so ridiculously one sided that CCP can ban you for anything they wish and at the same time aren't even obliged to provide you ANYTHING for your sub fees. It is truly that ridiculous.

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Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Whistleblowers tend to get banned for some mythical "EULA Violation" when if you read the EULA (which is probably illegal in many, if not most locales, EULA legality is certainly FAR from established precedent) it is so ridiculously one sided that CCP can ban you for anything they wish and at the same time aren't even obliged to provide you ANYTHING for your sub fees. It is truly that ridiculous.

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You don't -have- to agree to the EULA. Send them a mail letting them know that you choose not to agree to their terms.

Mind you, they might choose not to sell their product to you, but you do have a choice.

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Originally by: Ingvar Angst

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Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Whistleblowers tend to get banned for some mythical "EULA Violation" when if you read the EULA (which is probably illegal in many, if not most locales, EULA legality is certainly FAR from established precedent) it is so ridiculously one sided that CCP can ban you for anything they wish and at the same time aren't even obliged to provide you ANYTHING for your sub fees. It is truly that ridiculous.

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You don't -have- to agree to the EULA. Send them a mail letting them know that you choose not to agree to their terms.

Mind you, they might choose not to sell their product to you, but you do have a choice.

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The EULA specifically states that by entering the game you agree to the EULA. If you choose not to agree, the burden is on you to uninstall the game and not play it. Agreement is required to play, period.

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Originally by: Joshua Cy

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CCP in the advertisements for EVE claim it has a player run economy. Does it? Or is it a bot run economy? Is CCP guilty of false advertising?

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Originally by: Jita mcheck

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This is getting more and more notice from gaming news sites as well as the general population in both eve and other games.
CCp will be forced to do something soon with all the bad publicity.

Hopefully we get more than a nothing blog about RMT that completely ignores bots used by players.

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Originally by: Archbeholder

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CCP is like a fat kid who farted but won't admit it. Look at them posting in every thread about botting saying that we should only post in one thread.
So we have 99 threads about stupid character portraits, yet only 1 thread for botting?

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Originally by: Apollo Gabriel

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My new crackajack theory is that CCP knows who every botter and RMT is, and that they are trying to keep the financing coming in until Incarna is released, and then KABOOM perma bans for all. Maybe they are milking it.

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