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Kimentor
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:04:00 -
[61]
What skill do I train kill you while I am afk cloaked? BTW, your sanctum wrecks dissapeared while I was sitting there for 4 hours afk cloaking. Not sure why it didn't respawn somewhere else. I would petition that bro.
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Kieron VonDeux
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:04:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 19/03/2011 23:04:58
 Originally by: Simetriz
Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable.
Because they're cloaked?
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Simetriz
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:08:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Kieron VonDeux
Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 19/03/2011 23:04:58
Originally by: Simetriz
Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable.
Because they're cloaked?
Plasma Captain.
That thing has got to have a tailpipe.
Would you like to assist me in some surgery Doctor.
THat is the best I can do, not that much of a movie buff.
No cloak is perfect.
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Ariz Black
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:13:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Simetriz
No cloak is perfect.
EVE cloaks are no exception. They are only undetectable when viewed from very far away. Anything within 2,000m will cause the cloak to fail. Seriously, look out your window, how far can you see? 2km is a very large distance.
Also, saying 'no cloak is perfect' is nonsensical when you are talking about a science fiction setting. Key word fiction. Did I mention we have FTL travel, too?
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Emperor Ryan
Amarr
The Illuminatii
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:20:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kieron VonDeux
Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 19/03/2011 23:04:58
Originally by: Simetriz
Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable.
Because they're cloaked?
what is this i don't even know...
- Emperor
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Simetriz
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:21:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ariz Black
Originally by: Simetriz
No cloak is perfect.
EVE cloaks are no exception. They are only undetectable when viewed from very far away. Anything within 2,000m will cause the cloak to fail. Seriously, look out your window, how far can you see? 2km is a very large distance.
Also, saying 'no cloak is perfect' is nonsensical when you are talking about a science fiction setting. Key word fiction. Did I mention we have FTL travel, too?
OKay let try this another way.
What value added to the game having somebody cloaked in system.
They can disrupt operations, and @ the same time they can't do anything unless they have a second account.
Does this promote PvP NO.
The ability to scan down a cloaker to the grid they are on.
As long as the person sits and moves there ship around from time to time they still can disrupt operations.
PvP, now there is the potential for people to spend some of there time looking for that cloaked ship and maybe if they went afk for a LONG time uncloak and kill them.
So this promotes PvP.
End result
Scanning down cloakers promotes PvP and yet it does NOT prevent a cloaker from doing its mission of disrupting operations.
The only thing it does is make people play the game rather then log off.
So explain to me what the problem is ?????????
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:25:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Simetriz
That wasn't the question, and besides you do.
It was the answer, though, and no you don't.
You don't need to scan down AFK cloakers because you don't know they're there. They also don't know that you're there. For these two reasons, they cannot disrupt you in any way.
Again: AFK cloaking is a counter to local ù it's something that makes local unreliable. If it is removed, either local has to go as well (since removing a counter without removing the thing it is meant to counter is a bad idea) or it has to be replaced with something that makes people just as nervous and is just as good at making them lock down their own systems.
Quote:
Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable.
Yes they have: because AFK cloaking is a counter to local.
If you want a counter to this counter without giving up the primary functionality (viz. local), then you need to come up with a very good reason. "It annoys people" isn't a good reason ù quite the opposite: it only shows that it's actually working and that everything is fine.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Ariz Black
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:25:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Simetriz
So explain to me what the problem is ?????????
AFK Cloakers:
Can't move.
Can't target.
Can't ewar.
Can't tackle.
Can't attack.
Can't light a cyno.
Can't provide intel.
Can totally lock down a system.
The problem is you misunderstanding the capabilities of a cloaked ship with no pilot, which are, none.
As the guy before said, if you remove their ability to cloak afk, they'll eccm afk, and it will be worse for you. Stop complaining, HTFU, get 1 pvp pilot to scan directional while he covers your mining op from rats, and you'll have no problems with afk'ers, cloaked or otherwise.
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Jim Tudeski
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:33:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Simetriz
Originally by: DmitryEKT
[Raptor]
2x railgun, salvager
mwd, point, eccm
2x nano, sensor backup
lock speed, lock range rig
this ship is a fully functional tackle ceptor.
this ship cannot be probed if it turns on the eccm when at a safespot.
this ship is how i use my afk alt to afk in a system. they see a ceptor in directional! not cloaked! obviously they can't rat!
seriously, being able to scan out cloaky afk'ers means people would just not bother with cloaks anymore. it would make things *worse* for you because now you'd *see* combat ships on directional and still not be able to probe them, or otherwise find them.
stop whining about afk cloakies and be thankful that they're not afk uncloakies like some of us are ;)
Actually that is a bug that will be fixed so don't count on that working forever.
LOL. Is that why CCP staff use it when on their regular characters? Actually, if I remember correctly they use that + MWD/Cloak trick while doing missions in null sec.
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Simetriz
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:41:00 -
[70]
Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down ?????
You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now.
The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed.
The only thing a afk cloaker promotes is BORDEM.
Find a system system cloak up and what, that is fine but I want them to come after me, make things interesting, give me something else to do.
Just being there I know my mission is accomplished.
I have see miners risking a lot more then this every day.
It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP.
Well I tryed to make things a little less boring for us.
You all might as well go back to ratting on your alts, and forget about those fleet ops and roaming gangs cause you just don't cut it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Simetriz
Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down
Why are you so afraid of a single ship in local?
Quote:
You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now.
No. It's two-sided: the AFK cloaking "problem" wouldn't exist without local.
Quote:
The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed.
Yes. Remove local.
Quote:
It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP.
Stop docking up then.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Nemesis Factor
Caldari
Telanus' Reach
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:56:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Simetriz
Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down ?????
You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now.
The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed.
The only thing a afk cloaker promotes is BORDEM.
Find a system system cloak up and what, that is fine but I want them to come after me, make things interesting, give me something else to do.
Just being there I know my mission is accomplished.
I have see miners risking a lot more then this every day.
It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP.
Well I tryed to make things a little less boring for us.
You all might as well go back to ratting on your alts, and forget about those fleet ops and roaming gangs cause you just don't cut it.
AFK cloaking is PVP. It's one player disrupting isk making operations for other players.
For the record I would be completely fine with your proposal to make cloakers difficult but possible to scan down on as long as there is no local, simply because there would be no AFK cloakers with no local.
====================
~/~ Sultan of Buruni |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:03:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Simetriz
BORDEM
Que?
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Diablo Ex
Caldari
Reasonable People
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:40:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Diablo Ex on 20/03/2011 00:40:58
Tell you what I will do for you. When I leave my computer and go AFK, I will make sure my cloaky is moving at least 300m/s in some random direction away from celestials before I go.
Better?
I might even reach a nice deep safe after a few days.
---
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Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:45:00 -
[75]
LOL ALL THE PEOPLE IN THIS TREAD AGAINST THE CHANGE ARE AFK CLOAKERS. YOURE ALL GOING TO BE SO BUTTHURT IF ITS FIXED LOLOLOLOLOL
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:54:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Please save my bots!
No.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Diablo Ex
Caldari
Reasonable People
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.03.20 01:20:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Diablo Ex on 20/03/2011 01:25:31
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
LOL ALL THE PEOPLE IN THIS TREAD AGAINST THE CHANGE ARE AFK CLOAKERS. YOURE ALL GOING TO BE SO BUTTHURT IF ITS FIXED LOLOLOLOLOL
No, not in the least... I'll just log off and log on in random intervals with heavy ECCM.
For every act there is a consequence, nerf Cloaking at your own peril.
look, I'm in your system for a reason... deal with it.
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Captain Kyon
Caldari
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2011.03.20 01:50:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Diablo Ex
If I am truly "Away from the keyboard" then I cannot be a threat to you.
Aparently this OP, and many, many others have no issues with me at my computer.
But the moment I step away, they start to cry FOUL!
lol your comment made me **** meself...
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Flaser
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Posted - 2011.03.20 02:56:00 -
[79]
Thanks for the feedback everyone (except the dude that wants to **** in my mouth, lol). Here are my thoughts on the responses.
1- I will refine my issues with a locked down system. A month ago or so, There was a red in my home 0.0 system. After 3 or 4 days of him always being in system and no visual, my alliance members started getting lazy. We started ratting and running Sanctums. he was ALWAYS in local. So we assumed most of the time he was afk cloaked (WHICH I UNDERSTAND HE IS NOT A THREAT AND CANT DO ANYTHING TO THREATEN US). Then one day, one of our Tengu's was ratting and the red "became active" and tackled. Yes I know one ship in system is not a threat, unless any of you have lived in 0.0 and know the tackle techniques. After the tengu was tackled, 10 more reds hot dropped and easily took the kill.
2- In 0.0, we ALWAYS assume a red or neutral in system is a threat and is "not" afk. I have learned a few times to never trust anyone in EVE. So the problem with these afk cloak's is the assumption that they will become a hostile at any time. Yeah you can bring buddies and try to set traps, but if they are afk, its a waste of time and after so many attempts, people dont want to bother with it anymore.
3- I am not a carebear eve player, if I was I wouldnt be in 0.0. I just rat and make cash solo once in a while when nothing is going on. But I do it safely. I just dont understand why people can stay logged in a system afk for days on end. You always have to assume worse case in eve, reds/neuts gonna tackle your ass any chance they get. If your ratting in a pve fitted ship, your wanting to avoid pvp. When I wanna pvp, I will fit for pvp and sit in belts waiting for then to come.
4- Why are so many people so hostile and rigid with thier opinions of this topic? Maybe the players that support afk logged 24/7 are the ones doing the afk cloaking? I dont know...
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2011.03.20 03:19:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Flaser
A month ago or so, There was a red in my home 0.0 system. After 3 or 4 days of him always being in system and no visual, my alliance members started getting lazy. We started ratting and running Sanctums. he was ALWAYS in local. So we assumed most of the time he was afk cloaked (WHICH I UNDERSTAND HE IS NOT A THREAT AND CANT DO ANYTHING TO THREATEN US). Then one day, one of our Tengu's was ratting and the red "became active" and tackled. Yes I know one ship in system is not a threat, unless any of you have lived in 0.0 and know the tackle techniques. After the tengu was tackled, 10 more reds hot dropped and easily took the kill.
So he wasn't so much afk; he was more waiting for an opportunity.
Tell the hunter that waiting under that tree silently for his prey is just "griefing afk tactics."
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Kangaax
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Posted - 2011.03.20 03:38:00 -
[81]
Seriously, to all guys complaining about afk cloakers: try to live in a wormhole. No local, no afk cloakers. As simple as that.
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Diablo Ex
Caldari
Reasonable People
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.03.20 04:13:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Flaser
Thanks for the feedback everyone (except the dude that wants to **** in my mouth, lol). Here are my thoughts on the responses.
1- I will refine my issues with a locked down system. A month ago or so, There was a red in my home 0.0 system. After 3 or 4 days of him always being in system and no visual, my alliance members started getting lazy. We started ratting and running Sanctums. he was ALWAYS in local. So we assumed most of the time he was afk cloaked (WHICH I UNDERSTAND HE IS NOT A THREAT AND CANT DO ANYTHING TO THREATEN US). Then one day, one of our Tengu's was ratting and the red "became active" and tackled. Yes I know one ship in system is not a threat, unless any of you have lived in 0.0 and know the tackle techniques. After the tengu was tackled, 10 more reds hot dropped and easily took the kill.
2- In 0.0, we ALWAYS assume a red or neutral in system is a threat and is "not" afk. I have learned a few times to never trust anyone in EVE. So the problem with these afk cloak's is the assumption that they will become a hostile at any time. Yeah you can bring buddies and try to set traps, but if they are afk, its a waste of time and after so many attempts, people dont want to bother with it anymore.
3- I am not a carebear eve player, if I was I wouldnt be in 0.0. I just rat and make cash solo once in a while when nothing is going on. But I do it safely. I just dont understand why people can stay logged in a system afk for days on end. You always have to assume worse case in eve, reds/neuts gonna tackle your ass any chance they get. If your ratting in a pve fitted ship, your wanting to avoid pvp. When I wanna pvp, I will fit for pvp and sit in belts waiting for then to come.
4- Why are so many people so hostile and rigid with thier opinions of this topic? Maybe the players that support afk logged 24/7 are the ones doing the afk cloaking? I dont know...
1. Your "Home" system needs a cyno jammer installed, that way it is much harder for them to hot drop you.
2. This is the main reason we AFK Cloak in hostile systems, after a week or so of "prep" and waiting, the locals get sloppy, apathy sets in, and somebody makes a mistake. That is one of the "Roles" of Covert Ops.
3. Keeping an Alt logged on with a dual box setup is quite easy, and helps facilitate the mission and role. Basically, if you see a "red" cloaker loitering in system it is because someone is preparing to invade your space, you are being observed for weaknesses. Move to another system for awhile or prepare for being attacked.
4. I can't speak for others, but I see my mission as being a guerilla or commando unit. I am usually one that is left behind after a roaming gang comes through to "prep" the system for next weeks corp roam. I'm an advanced scout tasked with locating suitable PvP targets for my FC. I'm present because of something the locals did in a previous roam which caught my interest, usually a history of easy kills or sloppy methods of operation. It's a job.... nothing personal.
---
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Archon Rhade
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Posted - 2011.03.20 04:47:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nemesis Factor
Originally by: Simetriz
Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down ?????
You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now.
The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed.
The only thing a afk cloaker promotes is BORDEM.
Find a system system cloak up and what, that is fine but I want them to come after me, make things interesting, give me something else to do.
Just being there I know my mission is accomplished.
I have see miners risking a lot more then this every day.
It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP.
Well I tryed to make things a little less boring for us.
You all might as well go back to ratting on your alts, and forget about those fleet ops and roaming gangs cause you just don't cut it.
AFK cloaking is PVP. It's one player disrupting isk making operations for other players.
For the record I would be completely fine with your proposal to make cloakers difficult but possible to scan down on as long as there is no local, simply because there would be no AFK cloakers with no local.
I dont normally comment on threads like this because its pretty much pointless but what the heck.
The reason i think there should be SOME sort of penalty to AFK cloaking is simple. (Plzz Note im am NOT against Cloaking in a system as asset denial) I believe that in order for a player to have an effect in game they should be paying attention to it to some degree. Semi AFK mining for instance you still have to check on ore and such while you work on your homework. AFK cloaking does AFFECT other players ingame where there are places with local just like AFK'ing in stations do the same thing. While yes those players should grow a pair i dont think any player should be ABLE to have an affect on others while they are NOT here.
Tldr; If you player is near or at the keyboard they should be able to affect the game and players in it and if they ARE NOT at the keyboard they shouldnt be able to affect anybody even if its ratters that need to grow a pair.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.03.20 04:50:00 -
[84]
We don't need to ban it, we just need a module that turns a cloaking device off when used. (Not offline it just turn it off).
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
[orange]Your signature is to |
AFK Cloaker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.03.20 05:27:00 -
[85]
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Kwashi
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.03.20 06:21:00 -
[86]
AFK cloaking is a tool of terror and psy-ops - such a ship controls a system only in that it spreads FUD by appearing in local.
I'd say the solution is to remove local. Then the guy actually has to make some chat noise or show himself on D-scan to have any terror effect - without local, being an AFK morale officer doesn't work.
This would have the extra effect that it would be harder to do AFK ratting and mining as well :)
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.03.20 06:22:00 -
[87]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
You are providing an excellent service to this forum community. By counting your posts, we can see how many AFK cloaking threads there are on this forum. Thank you.
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Sisohiv
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.20 06:28:00 -
[88]
I've done it, I've seen it done.
One thing remains common.
Stations.
Rat in a system without one, you never see them. Bait in a system with a station, they or thier buddies will show up soon. |
Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.03.20 06:30:00 -
[89]
Generally people like to know when they are in danger.
The stigma against AFK cloakers comes from the 0.0 carebear, who actually wants to feel just as safe, as if not safer, then he would in high sec. That afk cloaker gives a feeling of uncertainty in an otherwise 100% safe bubble.
It also comes from botters, of course, because it disrupts their botting and costs them billions of isk.
When it comes right down to it though, you are in 0.0 and you have no excuse for this kind of pathetic attitude.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.20 09:28:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Horizonist on 20/03/2011 09:32:21
oh whtvr
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