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Flaser	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:51:00 - [1] Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. I support taking action against afk cloaking. In the 5 months I have been in the game, this is one of the most strange things I see people do. I think it's pretty laim that people go to bed or work for several hours and just sit in stations or cloak in sectors just to irritate people. There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! As a result it locks down the system from ratting etc. Now I have heard all the flame responses, which supprises me how many people support it, and none are valid to me. So this is just my opinion on the matter as a new player. Maybe the devs will see this as a developing subject and look into it, hopefully. I think only active mining modules should keep you from auto log off after 15 minutes no activity.
Janos Saal	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:53:00 - [2] I support ****ting in your mouth.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:58:00 - [3] There's a reason all those other threads got locked.. because they're as ignorant as this one. IBTL
Chuck Sands	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:58:00 - [4] I support effing up your bot.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Ariz Black on 19/03/2011 20:58:32 Originally by: FlaserAs a result it locks down the system from ratting etc.
Captain Die Suicide by Cop	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:59:00 - [6] Cloaked guy can't do anything until he uncloaks. --- DIE - EVE-O's SADOMASICHIST I WHO HAVE NOTHING!
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2011.03.19 20:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Flaser As a result it locks down the system from ratting etc How does it "lock down a system"? If a guy is AFK, he can't hurt you. Not my problem your chinese macrobots are programmed to run like a ***** if they see anyone in local.
Lucy Journey	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Flaser blablabla...it locks down the system from ratting etc....blablabla I don't see how an afk person would interfere with your ratting. It might be time to grow a spine.
CharmingButIrrational Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:00:00 - [9] They have lives, that's why they're afk.
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:06:00 - [10] I support the idea that the OP needs to get a few corp mates to fly security for his carebear ratting ship. Seriously, the tears are sweet, but I'm starting to become diabetic here. Harden the _______ up, dude. If you are tired of seeing that "red" in system, the close your Local channel, or get somebody in a frigate to hold your hand while you chain rat in your PvE battleship. If you have ever actually fought a single covert ops frigate you would know just how lame you are sounding. ---
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Flaser it locks down the system from ratting etc. Wrong. It doesn't lock down anything. You do. Solve that problem instead. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
rofflesausage	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:13:00 - [12] Obligatory 'minimise local'.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Diablo Ex If you have ever actually fought a single covert ops frigate you would know just how lame you are sounding. They pop easily, but on the other hand there's no restriction on it being a covert ops frig... it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ****-load of artillery.
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Sentient Blade Originally by: Diablo Ex If you have ever actually fought a single covert ops frigate you would know just how lame you are sounding. They pop easily, but on the other hand there's no restriction on it being a covert ops frig... it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ****-load of artillery. And if it's AFK, this matters because....
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Sentient Blade Originally by: Diablo Ex If you have ever actually fought a single covert ops frigate you would know just how lame you are sounding. They pop easily, but on the other hand there's no restriction on it being a covert ops frig... it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ****-load of artillery. ....Shhhhhhh.....be werry werry qwiet, I'm hunting wabbits! ---
Lord's Prophet Totally Abstract O X I D E	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Sentient Blade it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a **-load of artillery. i, too, find that battleships with cloaking devices can lock me before i can warp out. ________ Originally by:** CCP Mitnal If I ever need an alligator at 3am, I now know where to find one!
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Lord's Prophet Originally by: Sentient Blade it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ****-load of artillery. i, too, find that battleships with cloaking devices can lock me before i can warp out. ahh... try aligning to a celestial while you carebear. ---
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Lord's Prophet Originally by: Sentient Blade it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ***-load of artillery. i, too, find that battleships with cloaking devices can lock me before i can warp out. Maybe he's ratting in a Charonà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki*
Lord's Prophet Totally Abstract O X I D E	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Diablo Ex Originally by: Lord's Prophet Originally by: Sentient Blade it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a **-load of artillery. i, too, find that battleships with cloaking devices can lock me before i can warp out. ahh... try aligning to a celestial while you carebear. ahh... try recalibrating your ability to detect blatantly obvious sarcasm ________ Originally by:** CCP Mitnal If I ever need an alligator at 3am, I now know where to find one!
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Lord's Prophet Originally by: Diablo Ex Originally by: Lord's Prophet Originally by: Sentient Blade it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ****-load of artillery. i, too, find that battleships with cloaking devices can lock me before i can warp out. ahh... try aligning to a celestial while you carebear. ahh... try recalibrating your ability to detect blatantly obvious sarcasm Right.....recalibration in progress. ---
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:30:00 - [21] Edited by: Sentient Blade on 19/03/2011 21:32:02 Originally by: Lothris Andastar And if it's AFK, this matters because.... Because common sense dictates you plan for the worst case.. that means considering it as either a fast-lock battleship, or a recon ship in a fleet with a titan on the other end ready to jump bridge some friends over to blob you. Common sense dictates that you cannot know when this person is attentive or not. By the very nature of cloaking and how we're connecting to the game this is impossible to tell. The assumption must be made that they're either constantly attentive, or are checking back at a frequency that effectively means the same. Yes, aligning is helpful, but even an aligned mining fleet can be alpha'd before they hit warp. Unless you're suggesting nobody can stand still.
Lord's Prophet Totally Abstract O X I D E	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Sentient Blade Because common sense dictates you plan for the worst case.. that means considering it as either a fast-lock battleship, or a recon ship in a fleet with a titan on the other end ready to jump bridge some friends over to blob you. Common sense dictates that you cannot know when this person is attentive or not. By the very nature of cloaking and how we're connecting to the game this is impossible to tell. The assumption must be made that they're either constantly attentive, or are checking back at a frequency that effectively means the same. Yes, aligning is helpful, but even an aligned mining fleet can be alpha'd before they hit warp. Unless you're suggesting nobody can stand still. so many thing wrong here it's not even funny. - a battleship with a cloaking device will have a lock time measurable almost in minutes. - every recon has a titan waiting for him, this is totally common sense and also titans can lock ** before they warp away from them ________ Originally by:** CCP Mitnal If I ever need an alligator at 3am, I now know where to find one!
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Lord's Prophet - every recon has a titan waiting for him, this is totally common sense and also titans can lock **** before they warp away from them Oh I'm sorry, you must not have never come across a heavy interdictor or a 40 man hot-drop.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:39:00 - [24] Edited by: Tippia on 19/03/2011 21:39:56 Originally by: Sentient Blade Yes, aligning is helpful, but even an aligned mining fleet can be alpha'd before they hit warp. Unless you're suggesting nobody can stand still. By very definition of "aligned", they're not standing still. àoh, and no, a fast-locking battleship with a cloak can't lock anything before it warps off (unless, again, you're ratting in a Charon). As a result, the only thing they can alpha in a mining fleet is the rocks left behind. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 19/03/2011 21:42:14 Originally by: Flaser Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. Genius! Originally by: Flaser I support taking action against afk cloaking. no one cares. .
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Flaser Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. I support taking action against afk cloaking. In the 5 months I have been in the game, this is one of the most strange things I see people do. I think it's pretty laim that people go to bed or work for several hours and just sit in stations or cloak in sectors just to irritate people. There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! As a result it locks down the system from ratting etc. Now I have heard all the flame responses, which supprises me how many people support it, and none are valid to me. So this is just my opinion on the matter as a new player. Maybe the devs will see this as a developing subject and look into it, hopefully. I think only active mining modules should keep you from auto log off after 15 minutes no activity. So what you're saying is you'd like to get rid of local? Obviously, local is what's locking down your system, not the afk cloaker. Here's why. If there was not local then cloakers would not go afk in your system for days on end. I live in w-space. We don't have local. We just assume there are cloaky bad guys in our system. And yet, we mine, we farm sleeper sites, we spar in space, we hunt other people and generally do whatever we want to do.
Ovella	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lord's Prophet Originally by: Sentient Blade it could quite easily be a battleship with 3x targeting system stabilizers on and a ****-load of artillery. i, too, find that battleships with cloaking devices can lock me before i can warp out. Maybe he's ratting in a Charonà I think I found his alt
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Sentient Blade Edited by: Sentient Blade on 19/03/2011 21:32:02 Originally by: Lothris Andastar And if it's AFK, this matters because.... Because common sense dictates you plan for the worst case.. that means considering it as either a fast-lock battleship, or a recon ship in a fleet with a titan on the other end ready to jump bridge some friends over to blob you. Common sense dictates that you cannot know when this person is attentive or not. By the very nature of cloaking and how we're connecting to the game this is impossible to tell. The assumption must be made that they're either constantly attentive, or are checking back at a frequency that effectively means the same. Yes, aligning is helpful, but even an aligned mining fleet can be alpha'd before they hit warp. Unless you're suggesting nobody can stand still. Ok, let me try to explain this in the simplest of terms. If you are attentive, you are not AFK. If you are AFK, you are not attentive. The OP is complaining about AFK cloakers, not Attentive Cloakers. This is why the topic is such a FAIL. How you tell the difference, I can't say. Just once I would like to see an OP post about solving the issues with Cloakers and cloaking devices without the prefix of AFK. If I am truly "Away from the keyboard" then I cannot be a threat to you. Aparently this OP, and many, many others have no issues with me at my computer. But the moment I step away, they start to cry FOUL! ---
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:53:00 - [29] BAN a Cloaker NO. How as it stands right now it is impossible to scan down a cloaked ship, therefore it makes it impossible to kill them once they are cloaked. Nothing in EVE should be impossible. Give players the ability to scan down cloaked ships. Make it hard and make it take a lot of time but make it possible.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Simetriz How as it stands right now it is impossible to scan down a cloaked ship, therefore it makes it impossible to kill them once they are cloaked. this is not true.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:59:00 - [31] I believe the entire premise of this, and every other 'afk cloaky' thread is that without a mechanism to tell if they're attentive or not, which would be neigh impossible, you have to consider them alert. This means that the potential attacker benefits by representing an active threat, with no investment of time and nothing at risk. This is why they're all discussing AFK cloakers rather than cloaking in general. Cloaking wise in general, it would probably come down to some kind of fuel requirement as the limiting factor.
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:01:00 - [32] Edited by: Simetriz on 19/03/2011 22:03:01 Originally by: Ariz Black this is not true. I would so like to here how you can scan down a cloaked ship. And don't try to talk about uncloaking a ship that is known to be on grid And the fuel thing is just too easy, the only thing that should be able to find a cloaked ship is a covert ops.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Simetriz snip you said it isn't possible. i said that's not true. it's just difficult, and if they're on grid, requires a lot of luck to create a safespot in the same place. but it's not impossible, because it is possible, however difficult/unlikely. and if they're on grid and you have a competent ceptor with drones its almost guaranteed.
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente Halinallen veroparatiisi Inglorious Carebears	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:04:00 - [34] They might have just passed out. It's been known that certain eve players drink and if you would get banned for that...well at least half of the devs would be banned If you can't afk cloak then one shouldn't be able to stay docked either for eternity. I'll go with that. First I enter the system, cloack. The miners run into station. I uncloak and camp the station. Oh, my "have to undock in 15min no no no no" Bwahaahah! Just because you change the rules doesn't mean you change the game... Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Ariz Black Originally by: Simetriz snip you said it isn't possible. i said that's not true. it's just difficult, and if they're on grid, requires a lot of luck to create a safespot in the same place. but it's not impossible, because it is possible, however difficult/unlikely. and if they're on grid and you have a competent ceptor with drones its almost guaranteed. SO we go back to the original point there is no way to SCAN down a cloaked ship. My point was not about what to do once you find the grid they are on, but rather there is no way to find that grid. I am not asking to a probe to uncloak a ship but rather a probe to bring me to there grid. So if the cloaker is awake you still won't get them but if the are AFK now you have a chance. Back to the original , not make it easy and make it take time. A probe that gets you to within 100 km of a cloaked ship will only be effective if the person is afk. The whole point of the thread.
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:12:00 - [36] AFK Cloakers can't harm you. AFK Cloaking is a valid PsyOps tactic, and it works, as you can tell by the number of threads about this. One solution to this "issue" is to simply remove local. Players shouldn't know that they are completely safe, with no hostiles in local.
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:14:00 - [37] So everybody is like, "ban afk cloaking!" But has anybody stopped to ponder the possibility that perhaps these people aren't AFK? Rather they're scouting your system to see how much activity it has, your response times, and also taking the opportunity to laugh at you freaking out about it on the forums? Perhaps they're looking to find the best place to drop a cyno.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:14:00 - [38] i just ratted out a system with 6 neutrals in it, let your balls drop ♥
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:17:00 - [39] Edited by: Simetriz on 19/03/2011 22:19:26 Originally by: Kieron VonDeux AFK Cloakers can't harm you. AFK Cloaking is a valid PsyOps tactic, and it works, as you can tell by the number of threads about this. One solution to this "issue" is to simply remove local. Players shouldn't know that they are completely safe, with no hostiles in local. Ah but the cloaker is completely safe with 10 or even 100 hostiles in system. That is the root of the cloaker Issue, and the bite. It is not about people unwilling to go after hostiles it is about the fact that they can sit there all day and you can do nothing about it.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Hannibals Commando's	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:21:00 - [40] Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 19/03/2011 22:22:24 GOOD! The few can counter the many for once.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Simetriz That is the root of the cloaker Issue No. The root of the issue is local. AFK cloaking is simply a counter to local. If you want AFK cloaking gone, local needs to go as well, or the AFK cloaking will have to be replaced by something else that makes local (at least) as unreliable. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Simetriz Ah but the cloaker is completely safe with 10 or even 100 hostiles in system. That is the root of the cloaker Issue. Cloaks have real drawbacks that cause players to think twice about fitting them. I only fit them when I fly a "cloaky" ship or feel like making the locals take extra precautions while moving around. But some players can't adjust to that and frequently die or just don't undock. Either one works for me.
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Simetriz Originally by: Kieron VonDeux AFK Cloakers can't harm you. AFK Cloaking is a valid PsyOps tactic, and it works, as you can tell by the number of threads about this. One solution to this "issue" is to simply remove local. Players shouldn't know that they are completely safe, with no hostiles in local. Ah but the cloaker is completely safe with 10 or even 100 hostiles in system. That is the root of the cloaker Issue. Yes, the "Root" of the cloaker issue, 10 - 100 hostile players in a nullsec system all POS'sed up and crying because 1 cloaker in system. ROFL - OH HOW FAIL YOU MUST BE!!!! If I pop a cyno, I have to stand still for a long, long time. Long enough to be tackled and pwn'ed. You can warp right to my cyno and have a gankfest, don't you know that? Seriously laughing at your incompetence. ---
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Diablo Ex Edited by: Diablo Ex on 19/03/2011 22:27:06 Originally by: Simetriz Originally by: Kieron VonDeux AFK Cloakers can't harm you. AFK Cloaking is a valid PsyOps tactic, and it works, as you can tell by the number of threads about this. One solution to this "issue" is to simply remove local. Players shouldn't know that they are completely safe, with no hostiles in local. Ah but the cloaker is completely safe with 10 or even 100 hostiles in system. That is the root of the cloaker Issue. Yes, the "Root" of the cloaker issue, 10 - 100 hostile players in a nullsec system all POS'sed up and crying because 1 cloaker in system. ROFL - OH HOW FAIL YOU MUST BE!!!! If I pop a cyno, I have to stand still for a long, long time. Long enough to be tackled and pwn'ed. You can warp right to my cyno and have a gankfest, don't you know that? Seriously laughing at your incompetence. And around we go I find it hilarious that people are so against ability to scan down cloaked ships. And oh yeh real incompetence, it was and example Nothing I have proposed would could be the least threat to someone who even bothered to move there ship every 15 or 20 minutes. If you can't be bothered to do that well Let try the other angle shall we, how many times have you shown up in system to find people cloaked up. Would it be nice to go after them with your roaming gang. I have lost count the number of times that has happened. So try to lose that tunnel vision for a minute.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:38:00 - [45] IBTL
DmitryEKT Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:39:00 - [46] [Raptor] 2x railgun, salvager mwd, point, eccm 2x nano, sensor backup lock speed, lock range rig this ship is a fully functional tackle ceptor. this ship cannot be probed if it turns on the eccm when at a safespot. this ship is how i use my afk alt to afk in a system. they see a ceptor in directional! not cloaked! obviously they can't rat! seriously, being able to scan out cloaky afk'ers means people would just not bother with cloaks anymore. it would make things worse for you because now you'd see combat ships on directional and still not be able to probe them, or otherwise find them. stop whining about afk cloakies and be thankful that they're not afk uncloakies like some of us are ;)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:42:00 - [47] Originally by: Simetriz And around we go I find it hilarious that people are so against ability to scan down cloaked ships. Because nothing is ever offered in return. What are you willing to give up? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Kora Zilesti	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:43:00 - [48] It 'locks down a system' from ratting? lol. Why don't you just gain a few levels in Testicular Fortitude and just go rat since he's probably afk anyway. It's a 1x skill...
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:43:00 - [49] Originally by: DmitryEKT [Raptor] 2x railgun, salvager mwd, point, eccm 2x nano, sensor backup lock speed, lock range rig this ship is a fully functional tackle ceptor. this ship cannot be probed if it turns on the eccm when at a safespot. this ship is how i use my afk alt to afk in a system. they see a ceptor in directional! not cloaked! obviously they can't rat! seriously, being able to scan out cloaky afk'ers means people would just not bother with cloaks anymore. it would make things worse for you because now you'd see combat ships on directional and still not be able to probe them, or otherwise find them. stop whining about afk cloakies and be thankful that they're not afk uncloakies like some of us are ;) Actually that is a bug that will be fixed so don't count on that working forever.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Simetriz Actually that is a bug that will be fixed so don't count on that working forever. Source? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:46:00 - [51] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Simetriz And around we go I find it hilarious that people are so against ability to scan down cloaked ships. Because nothing is ever offered in return. What are you willing to give up? OKay lets play what do you want let here it.
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:47:00 - [52] Originally by: Kora Zilesti It 'locks down a system' from ratting? lol. Why don't you just gain a few levels in Testicular Fortitude and just go rat since he's probably afk anyway. It's a 1x skill... Or :shocked: get some friends and lay a trap for the evil cloaker.
DmitryEKT Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Simetriz Actually that is a bug that will be fixed so don't count on that working forever. Scanning being based on sig/sensor is a well known, well-documented (by players) feature which is working as intended. Don't confuse bugs with undocumented mechanics, EVE has plenty of the latter. Next you'll be calling gridfu a bug.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Simetriz Okay lets play what do you want let here it. The only reasonable price is the removal of local. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Simetriz Okay lets play what do you want let here it. The only reasonable price is the removal of local. You went for the gusto, okay then explain why cloakers can't be scanned in worm holes ?
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Simetriz OKay lets play what do you want let here it. Maybe redo scanning, but definately remove local.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Simetriz You went for the gusto, okay then explain why cloakers can't be scanned in worm holes ? You don't need to scan down cloakers in wormholes. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:53:00 - [58] Is someone is having bot working issues again? Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:00:00 - [59] Yes ccp, please make it so cuz the op says so... ________________________________________________
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Simetriz You went for the gusto, okay then explain why cloakers can't be scanned in worm holes ? You don't need to scan down cloakers in wormholes. That wasn't the question, and besides you do. TO be fair personnally . highsec and lowsec local on 0.0 no local unless you have sov then you and blue can see who is in local (gates are reporting to you) exceptions. if you don't enter via a gate you are not reported. lowsec and 0.0 Take a minute to think about that before you scream. but that is totally off topic. Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable.
Kimentor Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:04:00 - [61] What skill do I train kill you while I am afk cloaked? BTW, your sanctum wrecks dissapeared while I was sitting there for 4 hours afk cloaking. Not sure why it didn't respawn somewhere else. I would petition that bro.
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:04:00 - [62] Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 19/03/2011 23:04:58 Originally by: Simetriz Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable. Because they're cloaked?
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:08:00 - [63] Originally by: Kieron VonDeux Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 19/03/2011 23:04:58 Originally by: Simetriz Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable. Because they're cloaked? Plasma Captain. That thing has got to have a tailpipe. Would you like to assist me in some surgery Doctor. THat is the best I can do, not that much of a movie buff. No cloak is perfect.
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:13:00 - [64] Originally by: Simetriz No cloak is perfect. EVE cloaks are no exception. They are only undetectable when viewed from very far away. Anything within 2,000m will cause the cloak to fail. Seriously, look out your window, how far can you see? 2km is a very large distance. Also, saying 'no cloak is perfect' is nonsensical when you are talking about a science fiction setting. Key word fiction. Did I mention we have FTL travel, too?
Emperor Ryan Amarr The Illuminatii Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:20:00 - [65] Originally by: Kieron VonDeux Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 19/03/2011 23:04:58 Originally by: Simetriz Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable. Because they're cloaked? what is this i don't even know... - Emperor
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:21:00 - [66] Originally by: Ariz Black Originally by: Simetriz No cloak is perfect. EVE cloaks are no exception. They are only undetectable when viewed from very far away. Anything within 2,000m will cause the cloak to fail. Seriously, look out your window, how far can you see? 2km is a very large distance. Also, saying 'no cloak is perfect' is nonsensical when you are talking about a science fiction setting. Key word fiction. Did I mention we have FTL travel, too? OKay let try this another way. What value added to the game having somebody cloaked in system. They can disrupt operations, and @ the same time they can't do anything unless they have a second account. Does this promote PvP NO. The ability to scan down a cloaker to the grid they are on. As long as the person sits and moves there ship around from time to time they still can disrupt operations. PvP, now there is the potential for people to spend some of there time looking for that cloaked ship and maybe if they went afk for a LONG time uncloak and kill them. So this promotes PvP. End result Scanning down cloakers promotes PvP and yet it does NOT prevent a cloaker from doing its mission of disrupting operations. The only thing it does is make people play the game rather then log off. So explain to me what the problem is ?????????
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Simetriz That wasn't the question, and besides you do. It was the answer, though, and no you don't. You don't need to scan down AFK cloakers because you don't know they're there. They also don't know that you're there. For these two reasons, they cannot disrupt you in any way. Again: AFK cloaking is a counter to local ù it's something that makes local unreliable. If it is removed, either local has to go as well (since removing a counter without removing the thing it is meant to counter is a bad idea) or it has to be replaced with something that makes people just as nervous and is just as good at making them lock down their own systems. Quote: Nobody has yet to explain to me why cloaker should not be scannable. Yes they have: because AFK cloaking is a counter to local. If you want a counter to this counter without giving up the primary functionality (viz. local), then you need to come up with a very good reason. "It annoys people" isn't a good reason ù quite the opposite: it only shows that it's actually working and that everything is fine. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Ariz Black	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:25:00 - [68] Originally by: Simetriz So explain to me what the problem is ????????? AFK Cloakers: Can't move. Can't target. Can't ewar. Can't tackle. Can't attack. Can't light a cyno. Can't provide intel. Can totally lock down a system. The problem is you misunderstanding the capabilities of a cloaked ship with no pilot, which are, none. As the guy before said, if you remove their ability to cloak afk, they'll eccm afk, and it will be worse for you. Stop complaining, HTFU, get 1 pvp pilot to scan directional while he covers your mining op from rats, and you'll have no problems with afk'ers, cloaked or otherwise.
Jim Tudeski	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:33:00 - [69] Originally by: Simetriz Originally by: DmitryEKT [Raptor] 2x railgun, salvager mwd, point, eccm 2x nano, sensor backup lock speed, lock range rig this ship is a fully functional tackle ceptor. this ship cannot be probed if it turns on the eccm when at a safespot. this ship is how i use my afk alt to afk in a system. they see a ceptor in directional! not cloaked! obviously they can't rat! seriously, being able to scan out cloaky afk'ers means people would just not bother with cloaks anymore. it would make things worse for you because now you'd see combat ships on directional and still not be able to probe them, or otherwise find them. stop whining about afk cloakies and be thankful that they're not afk uncloakies like some of us are ;) Actually that is a bug that will be fixed so don't count on that working forever. LOL. Is that why CCP staff use it when on their regular characters? Actually, if I remember correctly they use that + MWD/Cloak trick while doing missions in null sec.
Simetriz	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:41:00 - [70] Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down ????? You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now. The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed. The only thing a afk cloaker promotes is BORDEM. Find a system system cloak up and what, that is fine but I want them to come after me, make things interesting, give me something else to do. Just being there I know my mission is accomplished. I have see miners risking a lot more then this every day. It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP. Well I tryed to make things a little less boring for us. You all might as well go back to ratting on your alts, and forget about those fleet ops and roaming gangs cause you just don't cut it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:45:00 - [71] Originally by: Simetriz Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down Why are you so afraid of a single ship in local? Quote: You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now. No. It's two-sided: the AFK cloaking "problem" wouldn't exist without local. Quote: The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed. Yes. Remove local. Quote: It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP. Stop docking up then. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Nemesis Factor Caldari Telanus' Reach	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Simetriz Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down ????? You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now. The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed. The only thing a afk cloaker promotes is BORDEM. Find a system system cloak up and what, that is fine but I want them to come after me, make things interesting, give me something else to do. Just being there I know my mission is accomplished. I have see miners risking a lot more then this every day. It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP. Well I tryed to make things a little less boring for us. You all might as well go back to ratting on your alts, and forget about those fleet ops and roaming gangs cause you just don't cut it. AFK cloaking is PVP. It's one player disrupting isk making operations for other players. For the record I would be completely fine with your proposal to make cloakers difficult but possible to scan down on as long as there is no local, simply because there would be no AFK cloakers with no local. ==================== ~/~ Sultan of Buruni
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:03:00 - [73] Originally by: Simetriz BORDEM Que?
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:40:00 - [74] Edited by: Diablo Ex on 20/03/2011 00:40:58 Tell you what I will do for you. When I leave my computer and go AFK, I will make sure my cloaky is moving at least 300m/s in some random direction away from celestials before I go. Better? I might even reach a nice deep safe after a few days. ---
Celestis VanBuuren	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:45:00 - [75] LOL ALL THE PEOPLE IN THIS TREAD AGAINST THE CHANGE ARE AFK CLOAKERS. YOURE ALL GOING TO BE SO BUTTHURT IF ITS FIXED LOLOLOLOLOL
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:54:00 - [76] Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Please save my bots! No. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.20 01:20:00 - [77] Edited by: Diablo Ex on 20/03/2011 01:25:31 Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren LOL ALL THE PEOPLE IN THIS TREAD AGAINST THE CHANGE ARE AFK CLOAKERS. YOURE ALL GOING TO BE SO BUTTHURT IF ITS FIXED LOLOLOLOLOL No, not in the least... I'll just log off and log on in random intervals with heavy ECCM. For every act there is a consequence, nerf Cloaking at your own peril. look, I'm in your system for a reason... deal with it. ---
Captain Kyon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2011.03.20 01:50:00 - [78] Originally by: Diablo Ex If I am truly "Away from the keyboard" then I cannot be a threat to you. Aparently this OP, and many, many others have no issues with me at my computer. But the moment I step away, they start to cry FOUL! lol your comment made me **** meself...
Flaser	Posted - 2011.03.20 02:56:00 - [79] Thanks for the feedback everyone (except the dude that wants to **** in my mouth, lol). Here are my thoughts on the responses. 1- I will refine my issues with a locked down system. A month ago or so, There was a red in my home 0.0 system. After 3 or 4 days of him always being in system and no visual, my alliance members started getting lazy. We started ratting and running Sanctums. he was ALWAYS in local. So we assumed most of the time he was afk cloaked (WHICH I UNDERSTAND HE IS NOT A THREAT AND CANT DO ANYTHING TO THREATEN US). Then one day, one of our Tengu's was ratting and the red "became active" and tackled. Yes I know one ship in system is not a threat, unless any of you have lived in 0.0 and know the tackle techniques. After the tengu was tackled, 10 more reds hot dropped and easily took the kill. 2- In 0.0, we ALWAYS assume a red or neutral in system is a threat and is "not" afk. I have learned a few times to never trust anyone in EVE. So the problem with these afk cloak's is the assumption that they will become a hostile at any time. Yeah you can bring buddies and try to set traps, but if they are afk, its a waste of time and after so many attempts, people dont want to bother with it anymore. 3- I am not a carebear eve player, if I was I wouldnt be in 0.0. I just rat and make cash solo once in a while when nothing is going on. But I do it safely. I just dont understand why people can stay logged in a system afk for days on end. You always have to assume worse case in eve, reds/neuts gonna tackle your ass any chance they get. If your ratting in a pve fitted ship, your wanting to avoid pvp. When I wanna pvp, I will fit for pvp and sit in belts waiting for then to come. 4- Why are so many people so hostile and rigid with thier opinions of this topic? Maybe the players that support afk logged 24/7 are the ones doing the afk cloaking? I dont know...
Chuck Sands	Posted - 2011.03.20 03:19:00 - [80] Originally by: Flaser A month ago or so, There was a red in my home 0.0 system. After 3 or 4 days of him always being in system and no visual, my alliance members started getting lazy. We started ratting and running Sanctums. he was ALWAYS in local. So we assumed most of the time he was afk cloaked (WHICH I UNDERSTAND HE IS NOT A THREAT AND CANT DO ANYTHING TO THREATEN US). Then one day, one of our Tengu's was ratting and the red "became active" and tackled. Yes I know one ship in system is not a threat, unless any of you have lived in 0.0 and know the tackle techniques. After the tengu was tackled, 10 more reds hot dropped and easily took the kill. So he wasn't so much afk; he was more waiting for an opportunity. Tell the hunter that waiting under that tree silently for his prey is just "griefing afk tactics."
Kangaax	Posted - 2011.03.20 03:38:00 - [81] Seriously, to all guys complaining about afk cloakers: try to live in a wormhole. No local, no afk cloakers. As simple as that.
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:13:00 - [82] Originally by: Flaser Thanks for the feedback everyone (except the dude that wants to **** in my mouth, lol). Here are my thoughts on the responses. 1- I will refine my issues with a locked down system. A month ago or so, There was a red in my home 0.0 system. After 3 or 4 days of him always being in system and no visual, my alliance members started getting lazy. We started ratting and running Sanctums. he was ALWAYS in local. So we assumed most of the time he was afk cloaked (WHICH I UNDERSTAND HE IS NOT A THREAT AND CANT DO ANYTHING TO THREATEN US). Then one day, one of our Tengu's was ratting and the red "became active" and tackled. Yes I know one ship in system is not a threat, unless any of you have lived in 0.0 and know the tackle techniques. After the tengu was tackled, 10 more reds hot dropped and easily took the kill. 2- In 0.0, we ALWAYS assume a red or neutral in system is a threat and is "not" afk. I have learned a few times to never trust anyone in EVE. So the problem with these afk cloak's is the assumption that they will become a hostile at any time. Yeah you can bring buddies and try to set traps, but if they are afk, its a waste of time and after so many attempts, people dont want to bother with it anymore. 3- I am not a carebear eve player, if I was I wouldnt be in 0.0. I just rat and make cash solo once in a while when nothing is going on. But I do it safely. I just dont understand why people can stay logged in a system afk for days on end. You always have to assume worse case in eve, reds/neuts gonna tackle your ass any chance they get. If your ratting in a pve fitted ship, your wanting to avoid pvp. When I wanna pvp, I will fit for pvp and sit in belts waiting for then to come. 4- Why are so many people so hostile and rigid with thier opinions of this topic? Maybe the players that support afk logged 24/7 are the ones doing the afk cloaking? I dont know... 1. Your "Home" system needs a cyno jammer installed, that way it is much harder for them to hot drop you. 2. This is the main reason we AFK Cloak in hostile systems, after a week or so of "prep" and waiting, the locals get sloppy, apathy sets in, and somebody makes a mistake. That is one of the "Roles" of Covert Ops. 3. Keeping an Alt logged on with a dual box setup is quite easy, and helps facilitate the mission and role. Basically, if you see a "red" cloaker loitering in system it is because someone is preparing to invade your space, you are being observed for weaknesses. Move to another system for awhile or prepare for being attacked. 4. I can't speak for others, but I see my mission as being a guerilla or commando unit. I am usually one that is left behind after a roaming gang comes through to "prep" the system for next weeks corp roam. I'm an advanced scout tasked with locating suitable PvP targets for my FC. I'm present because of something the locals did in a previous roam which caught my interest, usually a history of easy kills or sloppy methods of operation. It's a job.... nothing personal. ---
Archon Rhade	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:47:00 - [83] Originally by: Nemesis Factor Originally by: Simetriz Why are you all so afraid of someone scanning you down ????? You said give us something back, but cloaking is all one sided now. The point is to fix the issue of a game mechanic that is flawed. The only thing a afk cloaker promotes is BORDEM. Find a system system cloak up and what, that is fine but I want them to come after me, make things interesting, give me something else to do. Just being there I know my mission is accomplished. I have see miners risking a lot more then this every day. It really saddens me when PvP'rs are afraid to PvP. Well I tryed to make things a little less boring for us. You all might as well go back to ratting on your alts, and forget about those fleet ops and roaming gangs cause you just don't cut it. AFK cloaking is PVP. It's one player disrupting isk making operations for other players. For the record I would be completely fine with your proposal to make cloakers difficult but possible to scan down on as long as there is no local, simply because there would be no AFK cloakers with no local. I dont normally comment on threads like this because its pretty much pointless but what the heck. The reason i think there should be SOME sort of penalty to AFK cloaking is simple. (Plzz Note im am NOT against Cloaking in a system as asset denial) I believe that in order for a player to have an effect in game they should be paying attention to it to some degree. Semi AFK mining for instance you still have to check on ore and such while you work on your homework. AFK cloaking does AFFECT other players ingame where there are places with local just like AFK'ing in stations do the same thing. While yes those players should grow a pair i dont think any player should be ABLE to have an affect on others while they are NOT here. Tldr; If you player is near or at the keyboard they should be able to affect the game and players in it and if they ARE NOT at the keyboard they shouldnt be able to affect anybody even if its ratters that need to grow a pair.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:50:00 - [84] We don't need to ban it, we just need a module that turns a cloaking device off when used. (Not offline it just turn it off). Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. [orange]Your signature is to
AFK Cloaker Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.03.20 05:27:00 - [85]
Kwashi Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.20 06:21:00 - [86] AFK cloaking is a tool of terror and psy-ops - such a ship controls a system only in that it spreads FUD by appearing in local. I'd say the solution is to remove local. Then the guy actually has to make some chat noise or show himself on D-scan to have any terror effect - without local, being an AFK morale officer doesn't work. This would have the extra effect that it would be harder to do AFK ratting and mining as well :)
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.20 06:22:00 - [87] Originally by: AFK Cloaker You are providing an excellent service to this forum community. By counting your posts, we can see how many AFK cloaking threads there are on this forum. Thank you.
Sisohiv Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.20 06:28:00 - [88] I've done it, I've seen it done. One thing remains common. Stations. Rat in a system without one, you never see them. Bait in a system with a station, they or thier buddies will show up soon.
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.03.20 06:30:00 - [89] Generally people like to know when they are in danger. The stigma against AFK cloakers comes from the 0.0 carebear, who actually wants to feel just as safe, as if not safer, then he would in high sec. That afk cloaker gives a feeling of uncertainty in an otherwise 100% safe bubble. It also comes from botters, of course, because it disrupts their botting and costs them billions of isk. When it comes right down to it though, you are in 0.0 and you have no excuse for this kind of pathetic attitude.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:28:00 - [90] Edited by: Horizonist on 20/03/2011 09:32:21 oh whtvr
Akiro Tukana	Posted - 2011.03.20 10:11:00 - [91] wtf is up with all this whining about cloaks lately.... I mean, occasionally, some moron will come out crying about it, but lately.... sheesh Game mechanic.... working as intended.... HTFU!
Lucy Journey	Posted - 2011.03.20 10:59:00 - [92] Originally by: Archon Rhade Tldr; If you player is near or at the keyboard they should be able to affect the game and players in it and if they ARE NOT at the keyboard they shouldnt be able to affect anybody even if its ratters that need to grow a pair. So i guess by that logic, POS's are not allowed to attack players and cynojammers should not be operational if the owners are not logged in? Oh and sovereignty would be lost if there is nobody online in a alliance?
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Hannibals Commando's	Posted - 2011.03.20 11:01:00 - [93] I rat with reds in local. Cloaked or not. I do it in a pvp ship. I watch the scanner, fly aligned all that jazz. Only been caught once when I was a newbie like 4 years ago, put big holes in the vagabond and he ran off. Obviously if a whole bunch of them turn up then it's safe to assume I will be blobbed so I either dock up/jumpclone/move system. They key to not being killed is not to sit still in your Tengu with its deadspace booster and pwn rats in your PVE max isk making faction fitted ship. Fly defensively. When they disappear, then go back to your super ratting ship. If you are in 0.0 you really need to grow a backbone. There are times I don't want to have to deal with the cloakers in system. You know what I do? I **** off back to high sec.
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.20 11:47:00 - [94] I support banning bots. How are we alike? No one gives a **** about what we support. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
Lynx Australis	Posted - 2011.03.20 12:24:00 - [95] Originally by: Flaser Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. I support taking action against afk cloaking. In the 5 months I have been in the game, this is one of the most strange things I see people do. I think it's pretty laim that people go to bed or work for several hours and just sit in stations or cloak in sectors just to irritate people. There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! As a result it locks down the system from ratting etc. Now I have heard all the flame responses, which supprises me how many people support it, and none are valid to me. So this is just my opinion on the matter as a new player. Maybe the devs will see this as a developing subject and look into it, hopefully. I think only active mining modules should keep you from auto log off after 15 minutes no activity. Cloaked ship can't fire. You should just defend yourself instead of whining. It's funny. Mostly Harmless for example. System has 200 pilots. All carebearing. Then one cloaky ship arrives to the system and everyone docks up and stays docked up. How in hell those 200 pilots lacks balls to defend themselves? If the cloaky ship uncloaks and attacks, it's your choice eather fight or whine at forums. OP has chosen the usual, whining part.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:52:00 - [96] Originally by: Akiro Tukana wtf is up with all this whining about cloaks lately.... I mean, occasionally, some moron will come out crying about it, but lately.... sheesh Game mechanic.... working as intended.... HTFU! My guess is it's affecting the money making situation, wherever they are currently not active. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:23:00 - [97] people.. you dock up when a red or nuet is in system because there is no way for you to know if they are or aren't AFK, or whether they are planning to hotdrop the first pilot/fleet they see form up. it is a bad idea to fleet up; considering you can't find them anyways! so they only way you will fight them is if they decide to - in which case they've already had the chance to assess the situation and decided they will win..... you dock up because letting them get kills encourages their behavior. it can also encourage their buddy's to come join in on the easy kills. making it so that your fav. system is camped 23/7... with that said, there really is nothing that players can currently do to counter AFK cloakers. normal non-AFK pilots cloaking up in a system and looking for easy kills is fine. cloaking up and going to work for 10 hours is BS. but, i'm wholly against banning them, or even having CCP decloak them! we need to stop acting like CCP playing daddy should be the solution to all of our problems... rather, i think there ought to be a mechanism (that isn't a petition) to counter AFK cloakers. My thought is something like a directional scan that takes 20 minutes to complete (to alloy for legit AFK: bio, wife aggro, etc), and even still only provides an area around the cloaky (i think a 75 to 100km radius centered on the cloaker is good) that you would warp to a random spot within. this way, if they are not AFK they can take action - otherwise you'll be able to find them soon enough (dropping cans at each random warp ins to manually triangulate their position, warping a large fleet in and out - increasing the chance of an instant decloak, flying in circles, etc) this allows for a better cat and mouse approach to the issue. if the locals are truly pu... kitty's then you could stay AFK cloaked all day, if you expect them to use the fleet warp-in trick i mentioned it could be used as a trap for a hotdrop, etc...
Serpens Scutum	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:29:00 - [98] how does a cloaked person negate ratting?
bitters much Nekkid Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:46:00 - [99] Originally by: Serpens Scutum how does a cloaked person negate ratting? Bots dont work with neuts / reds in local as supposed
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:49:00 - [100] Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 14:50:42 Originally by: Serpens Scutum how does a cloaked person negate ratting? because if they are not AFK then they are likely searching out the anoms and belts looking for targets. and since you can't know if they are AFK (they will be back at some point) you have to assume they are online. you may suggest ratting in groups, but read my above about getting hotdropped. fact is someone cloaked in your system has the advantage of being able to chose when to engage - which means that any chance of you killing them will have the weight already stacked against you. you may say rat in a cheap ship, but those easy kills attract more griefers - and thus **** off the rest of your alliance...
Mikalya Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:58:00 - [101] Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: Serpens Scutum how does a cloaked person negate ratting? because if they are not AFK then they are likely searching out the anoms and belts looking for targets. and since you can't know if they are AFK (they will be back at some point) you have to assume they are online. you may suggest ratting in groups, but read my above about getting hotdropped. fact is someone cloaked in your system has the advantage of being able to chose when to engage - which means that any chance of you killing them will have the weight already stacked against you. you may say rat in a cheap ship, but those easy kills attract more griefers - and thus **** off the rest of your alliance... Basically you can't be arsed to group to defend yourself and instead whine about it Anyone who can't defend themselves from "AFK" cloakers and hot drops enough that it shuts down their operations shouldn't own space. And they call PvE'rs in high sec carebears. At least they acknowledge they are afraid of getting blown up so they stay out of dangerous places. Maybe time to take a clue from them? - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:00:00 - [102] Originally by: Mikalya Basically you can't be arsed to group to defend yourself and instead whine about it Anyone who can't defend themselves from "AFK" cloakers and hot drops enough that it shuts down their operations shouldn't own space. And they call PvE'rs in high sec carebears. At least they acknowledge they are afraid of getting blown up so they stay out of dangerous places. Maybe time to take a clue from them? unless you know what they have on the other side of that cyno it is pure stupidity to try and counter it. and again... you wont be able to fight them unless they choose - which means they already know they will win.
Dorian Wylde	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:03:00 - [103] Just chiming in in the event CCP is reading this. AFK cloaking is fine. Implement delayed local in null space like wormholes, and this problem disappears.
Mikalya Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:08:00 - [104] Originally by: Arnakoz unless you know what they have on the other side of that cyno it is pure stupidity to try and counter it. and again... you wont be able to fight them unless they choose - which means they already know they will win. The game mechanic that needs to be changed is the simple "My alliance of 1k players can control 100 systems"; very small numbers of players owning vast amounts of space. You are even saying the same thing, you can't field enough players in a system to protect yourselves from attackers. Meaning you shouldn't own the system - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:20:00 - [105] Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 15:22:26 Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 15:21:33 Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 15:20:51 Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 15:20:24 Originally by: Mikalya The game mechanic that needs to be changed is the simple "My alliance of 1k players can control 100 systems"; very small numbers of players owning vast amounts of space. You are even saying the same thing, you can't field enough players in a system to protect yourselves from attackers. Meaning you shouldn't own the system it isn't about having "enough players" because again... there may just be more players/supers on the other side of the cyno; unless you are suggesting that all null alliances rat in 800 man multi-titan supported fleets... that just sounds like a great idea!! ...... or, how about CCP make a mechanic that allows for the one thing in this game that doesn't have a counter, to have one?! again, (ref my post 8 or so posts up) i dont think the ability to cloak up in a system to terrorize the locals should be removed. but i do think doing so for 10 hours while at work should at least some method of countering. if you read my suggestion i think you;ll find it in line with you're thinking - if they are really carebears that wont defend themselves then your AFK cloaking activities will stay in tact. as for small alliances owning tons of space... i agree to an extent (esp since my alliance only own all of 4 system, and i think it makes us stronger for it) but the limitation of my agreement is that if they do actually have more than they should, then they should also have a hard time defending it from REAL attacks (meaning people taking over stations/systems) again, read my suggested counter.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:31:00 - [106] Why does having a WH-like local change the way AFK cloaking works? All the AFK cloaker has to do is Log in, cloak, type "Hi bots" in local, then go AFK. The effect is exactly the same as the effect we have now. Everyone in system, bot and human, have to go on the defensive.
Tryptic Photon Gallente Mad Bads	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:45:00 - [107] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium I support banning bots. How are we alike? No one gives a **** about what we support. Best post.
Outouchmatralala	Posted - 2011.03.20 15:59:00 - [108] i support the op to somehow rid eve of afk cloaking
Mikalya Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:11:00 - [109] Originally by: Arnakoz again, read my suggested counter. As a more polite response.... I have no issue with a mechanic as a VERY inaccurate scanner that can only be fitted to ships designed for scanning which can put you on the same grid. I also have no problem with an AFK mechanism which will boot players which are inactive for a long period of time. No, 4 hours isn't "long" in Eve terms. But any such mechanism cannot, repeat CANNOT adversely affect legitimate players, including those with cloaks. Even in High Sec I have spent over 1.5 hours cloaked, completely still, while waiting to gank a miner or mission runner. Seriously, that is the covert ops pilots' JOB to do that sort of thing. ALl recommendations I have seen offered generally seriously nerf the legitimate use of the tools. But I still say the majority of the issue is alliances and corporations which "own" too much space and as such can't be arsed to have people around to protect themselves. - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work
Flynn Fetladral BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:13:00 - [110] Add Cloaking fuel bays to Cov Ops ships? Allow them to carry enough fuel for extended Cov Ops missions (few hours), but it would make going AFK 24 hours a day impossible. I've experienced AFK Cloaking, it's frustrating, but I've always continued to go about my business, keep an eye on directional scanner and they don't pose a massive threat imho.
Forum Alting	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:16:00 - [111] Ah, the daily AFK clocker whine. The answer isn't really difficult. Assume the worst that you're going to get ambushed but rather than s*ing yourself and cowering in the station (High-sec is that way btw -->), fly a PvP fit in ships your willing to lose and fly in a group. Yes isk/hour decreases slightly but the system is by no means completely locked down. The fact is the cloaker is either AFK and not a threat or he's active, in which case he's going to run into multiple pvp fit opponents. Baring an equivilent sized group (a blob of hostiles in local is arguably a good reason to hide in a station/POS) the attacker is likely to get slaughtered if they try anything. No different from when a non-cloaky person jumps in. Are you going to start complaining that non-cloaking neutrals/reds can enter your ratting system as well? What is it specifically about a cloaker that makes them more dangerous than a regular hostile? Yes, that can be patient enough that greed takes over and you go for maximum isk/hour. That's your problem. Don't be greedy, accept you're going to take an isk/hour hit by not running in a carebears dream-fit and take measures to make yourself a very unattractive target to gankers. Put youself in their shoes. Would you engage a singular paladin or machariel ratting solo? Maybe. How about 3 T1 BS/BC working together, especially if you engaged that same group yesterday and got your ** handed to you because they're PvP fit? Probably not.
Mikalya Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:16:00 - [112] Originally by: Flynn Fetladral Add Cloaking fuel bays to Cov Ops ships? Allow them to carry enough fuel for extended Cov Ops missions (few hours), but it would make going AFK 24 hours a day impossible. I've experienced AFK Cloaking, it's frustrating, but I've always continued to go about my business, keep an eye on directional scanner and they don't pose a massive threat imho. 24 hrs fuel is too short. For deep scouting missions behind enemy lines (ie - no access to fuel due to gate camps), preparation for ganking/attack with ONLINE players can easily use that much fuel. As fuel requirements for non-cloak capable ships, no problem. Ones designed to be cloaked for extended periods of time its too much of a nerf. - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work
Flynn Fetladral BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:34:00 - [113] Originally by: Mikalya Originally by: Flynn Fetladral Add Cloaking fuel bays to Cov Ops ships? Allow them to carry enough fuel for extended Cov Ops missions (few hours), but it would make going AFK 24 hours a day impossible. I've experienced AFK Cloaking, it's frustrating, but I've always continued to go about my business, keep an eye on directional scanner and they don't pose a massive threat imho. 24 hrs fuel is too short. For deep scouting missions behind enemy lines (ie - no access to fuel due to gate camps), preparation for ganking/attack with ONLINE players can easily use that much fuel. As fuel requirements for non-cloak capable ships, no problem. Ones designed to be cloaked for extended periods of time its too much of a nerf. What about introducing a re-fueling ship into the game, maybe has a mini jump drive with limited range and cov ops cloak of its own? Can only be used to carry fuel.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:37:00 - [114] Originally by: Mikalya As a more polite response.... I have no issue with a mechanic as a VERY inaccurate scanner that can only be fitted to ships designed for scanning which can put you on the same grid. I also have no problem with an AFK mechanism which will boot players which are inactive for a long period of time. No, 4 hours isn't "long" in Eve terms. But any such mechanism cannot, repeat CANNOT adversely affect legitimate players, including those with cloaks. Even in High Sec I have spent over 1.5 hours cloaked, completely still, while waiting to gank a miner or mission runner. Seriously, that is the covert ops pilots' JOB to do that sort of thing. ALl recommendations I have seen offered generally seriously nerf the legitimate use of the tools. But I still say the majority of the issue is alliances and corporations which "own" too much space and as such can't be arsed to have people around to protect themselves. i agree completely. i think cloaks for intel and terrorism are perfect. my only problem is the people who log on, cloak up and go to work for the next 10 hours. which is actually something i'm even guilty of. it just makes griefing way too easy. as for a special ship - IDK if that would accomplish anything. just being undocked in any ship for long enough to scan down a broad/general location and then having to warping into an unknown enemy (unknown being not knowing what they are flying, if it is a trap, if they will cyno... etc) that you still wont even be able to see once there seems to be enough to me. and i think 20 minutes should be about all for the scanning portion of it. because if you;re really not AFK and gathering intel/terrorizing, then simply moving even a slight amount (warp 150km away...) would allow you to continue your operation.
Medarr Amarr ZeroSec	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:51:00 - [115] GTFO NAO
Mikalya Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.20 17:35:00 - [116] Originally by: Arnakoz as for a special ship - IDK if that would accomplish anything. I didn't mean a new ship class, I meant a high-slot module can could only be fitted to those ships that are already focused around probing and tackling; T1 Probing frigs, Interdictors, etc. - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work
bitters much Nekkid Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.20 18:23:00 - [117]
Privateeralliance Sucks	Posted - 2011.03.20 18:40:00 - [118] U just need to wear better underwear, brown colour
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2011.03.20 19:19:00 - [119] Can you please change a system to rat? or change your crappy corp that only allowed to rat in one system.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Punic Corp.	Posted - 2011.03.20 19:23:00 - [120] Well, I'm glad to see AFK-Cloak whinage threads are still in vogue here in Eve. I guess some thngs never change. ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.'
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:25:00 - [121] The client used to time-out and log you off if there was no interaction for x minutes (or maybe that's a false memory...). If it did this then you wouldn't be able to be in-game and AFK for a 10 hour stretch.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:31:00 - [122] Originally by: Burnharder The client used to time-out and log you off if there was no interaction for x minutes (or maybe that's a false memory...). If it did this then you wouldn't be able to be in-game and AFK for a 10 hour stretch. No, that was just the client being unstable. àand such measures are trivial to work around and still deliver 23.5/7 terror. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:32:00 - [123] This thread => -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:48:00 - [124] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Burnharder The client used to time-out and log you off if there was no interaction for x minutes (or maybe that's a false memory...). If it did this then you wouldn't be able to be in-game and AFK for a 10 hour stretch. No, that was just the client being unstable. àand such measures are trivial to work around and still deliver 23.5/7 terror. Haha, really? Client bug I thought was a feature. LOL. But anyway, "working around it" would be an exploit... which brings in exploit rulez, GMs and such like.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:59:00 - [125] Originally by: Burnharder But anyway, "working around it" would be an exploit... which brings in exploit rulez, GMs and such like. Seeing as how it wouldn't really have anything to do with EVE, and only meant to keep the computer from triggering various AFK behaviours (screen savers, background processes and the like)à nah. More to the point, though: there's absolutely no need for it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.21 02:39:00 - [126] Originally by: bitters much Originally by: Serpens Scutum how does a cloaked person negate ratting? Bots dont work with neuts / reds in local as supposed Awwww,you ok?
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.03.21 07:36:00 - [127] Meow This topic always creates the best threads to read. I support perma-banning 1st offense bot users. Til then.. must suck to have macro operations grind to halt and come back to your computer after hours, expecting big free payday.. only to find your wallet not blinking or ore storage empty of ABCs. The best aspect is any alliance planning a war on another could plan ahead, landing alt AFK Cloakers in every single system controled by the future enemy and completely halt their macro farms. Thus significantly hurting their production of war-chest and reserves to use when needed for long, drawn out conflicts. If CCP gimps cloakers.. they send the message that they cuddle bots. Good luck with convincing them OP, given current state of affairs. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.03.21 08:19:00 - [128] I support providing a mechanic to find cloaked ships... ...if and only if we remove local from nullsec. I'm imagining something like a combat scanner probe, except that it takes 5 minutes to run a scan or something.
Eyup Mi'duck	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:04:00 - [129] Cloaky mechanics are working just fine as they are. Cloaks are meant to make ships sneaky and add uncertainty to the game. The comments in this thread confirm that they do just that. Brilliant!
Long John Silver	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:09:00 - [130] Originally by: Umega Meow This topic always creates the best threads to read. I support perma-banning 1st offense bot users. Til then.. must suck to have macro operations grind to halt and come back to your computer after hours, expecting big free payday.. only to find your wallet not blinking or ore storage empty of ABCs. The best aspect is any alliance planning a war on another could plan ahead, landing alt AFK Cloakers in every single system controled by the future enemy and completely halt their macro farms. Thus significantly hurting their production of war-chest and reserves to use when needed for long, drawn out conflicts. If CCP gimps cloakers.. they send the message that they cuddle bots. Good luck with convincing them OP, given current state of affairs. ^^ THIS ^^ It makes me laugh when botters (afk macro miners) start complaining about afk cloakers! How hypocritical is that?
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:21:00 - [131] Just have some of your ships fit for PVP and have them act as a guard, have a couple of other ships fitted for scanning. If an AFK cloaker wants to drop a cyno he has to decloak, then he will show up on scan, at which point you dock up and undock in PVP ships. Any ships coming through the cyno will also show up on scan and you then go out and kill them. Stop being a bunch of whiners and learn to defend the space you live and work in.
Eastman Color	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:22:00 - [132] Originally by: Flaser Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. I support taking action against afk cloaking. In the 5 months I have been in the game, this is one of the most strange things I see people do. I think it's pretty laim that people go to bed or work for several hours and just sit in stations or cloak in sectors just to irritate people. There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! As a result it locks down the system from ratting etc. Now I have heard all the flame responses, which supprises me how many people support it, and none are valid to me. So this is just my opinion on the matter as a new player. Maybe the devs will see this as a developing subject and look into it, hopefully. I think only active mining modules should keep you from auto log off after 15 minutes no activity. Why are you in 0.0? Seriously.
Iceni	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:30:00 - [133] Originally by: Flaser Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. I support taking action against afk cloaking. In the 5 months I have been in the game, this is one of the most strange things I see people do. I think it's pretty laim that people go to bed or work for several hours and just sit in stations or cloak in sectors just to irritate people. There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! As a result it locks down the system from ratting etc. Now I have heard all the flame responses, which supprises me how many people support it, and none are valid to me. So this is just my opinion on the matter as a new player. Maybe the devs will see this as a developing subject and look into it, hopefully. I think only active mining modules should keep you from auto log off after 15 minutes no activity. So you're a new player? Welcome to EVE. Stick at it for a while and you'll learn that first impressions are not always right.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:01:00 - [134] Originally by: Flaser I think only active mining modules should keep you from auto log off after 15 minutes no activity. Not a terrible idea. For a start, Jita would be down to about 200 inhabitants in about 30 minutes. And the PCU would drop to about 4000.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:02:00 - [135] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Jita would be down to about 200 inhabitants in about 30 minutes Almost all of them being auto trade bots.
leich Amarr bish bash bosh	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:09:00 - [136] Have these miners never heard of Combat scan probes. (Yes i know you cant scan down cloaked ships) But using A your onboard scanner and B Combat scan probes and by keeping aligned. As soon as you see the hostile ship aproach you can insta warp off. Normally ships that Cant warp cloacked will normally come in from range. Cloaky warper ships will decloack on the warp in giving you time to react. This is not perfect but there other things you can use to help such as jammers and jammer drones. = in local dont mean ****!
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:11:00 - [137] Edited by: Sentient Blade on 21/03/2011 10:11:59 Yes most people know about combat probes and the d-scan... but do you believe it beneficial to the game play that people be required to go scanning every minute or so? Do you not think this would be something a ship several thousand years into the future could manage on its own without a pilot constantly pushing the same button over and over again?
Florestan Bronstein Amarr Taishi Combine	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:22:00 - [138] Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 21/03/2011 10:24:10 Originally by: leich Cloaky warper ships will decloack on the warp in giving you time to react. a cloaky ship will usually only uncloak once it is within point range, which leaves you about 1.3s before it has you (Hulk) pointed. The advantage on closing in on the target a little faster (by uncloaking + MWD) is not worth the risk of the target escaping - a Hulk mining roids or a Marauder running sanctums usually won't warp away unexpectedly, so the cloaky pilot can take his time to set up conditions perfectly.
Rubet Gold	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:55:00 - [139] I too would like a change to AFK Cloaking! I want to AFK Cloak while my Strip miners are running!
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.21 11:07:00 - [140] I agree its annoying but you only know they are there because of local chat. They should be scannable with allot of effort though.
Schopkar	Posted - 2011.03.21 11:16:00 - [141] The problem is indeed that to prohibit low-risk, high-reward nullsec operations you have another low-risk, arguably-high-reward action (it is highly rewarded if you stop many players from generating as much ISK as they would without the cloaker in system). It isn't really a logical solution if what you want to accomplish is to remove those low-risk, high-reward situations. I used to be supporting removal of the permacloaking option, to promote a more active gameplay. Not counting bots, the ratter/miner sure needs to be active and it doesn't really make sense that the cloaker shouldn't have to as well. Yeah, sure, the akf cloaker can't hurt since he is afk, yada, yada. A guy with a gun can't hurt you unless he fires either, but I wouldn't consider myself out of harms way just because he hasn't fired at me yet if there's a reasonable chance that he will. Permacloaking isn't a good mechanic and I think I still favor some change regarding this mechanic and I don't really see why a change in this matter has to come with a change in another area of gameplay. The discussion whether nullsec is too safe atm is another argument, one that might need several solutions on it's own.
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.21 11:17:00 - [142] Edited by: Miilla on 21/03/2011 11:18:05 I support banning of AFK Cloaker thread spammers.
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.03.21 11:17:00 - [143] All of this "ohhh noes! I see a bad man in local!" makes me think the only players actually making use of 'their space' properly are Wormhole Corps. The rest of you need to grow a pair, seriously.
Maria Yi	Posted - 2011.03.21 11:21:00 - [144] Edited by: Maria Yi on 21/03/2011 11:21:56 ITT: Bads and people laughing at bads. Learn to use D-scan while there are people afk cloaking. Or umm program your bots to do it or something?
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.21 12:08:00 - [145] If afk cloaks get nerfed what's to stop people doing the same with unprobables and perma mwd inties, frigs? Theres more than one way to afk grief you... --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:09:00 - [146] You know... there's a very simple real life analogy to this... hunting blinds. Hunters will set up a blind well outside of hunting season. Why? To get the local prey species used to it. They get used to it, they don't fear it. Meanwhile, for months even at a time, the hunter is "afk" (afb?) from the blind. You are slowly letting yourselves get set up for the kills, it's that simple. If you fail to be smarter or to maintain your paranoia, don't blame the patient hunter that outsmarted you. Just collect your insurance, fit a new ship and bask in the warm glow of the lesson learned from your mistakes. Now... if it's screwing up your botting, well too effing bad. Rewrite your bot to not warp off if someone is in local.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:18:00 - [147] Originally by: Rubet Gold I too would like a change to AFK Cloaking! I want to AFK Cloak while my Strip miners are running! I would support this many times over. Oh yeah. Let this happen. Please. Nothing like big, glowing arrows pointing to where the afk cloaked ship is at...
Kaedama Katar	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:36:00 - [148] So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system?
Maximillian Dragonard The Social Club	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:30:00 - [149] The reality of this whole thread is that bot users are unhappy.. cry me a river
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:35:00 - [150] Originally by: Flaser Well, since all the other afk cloak threads are getting locked, I started my own. What does it take to reach your level of intellectual superiority? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:46:00 - [151] In another thread about botting they see how much people spend on buying ISK in game and a lot of people were amazed. I cant spend any money on eve myself, but if I was independently wealthy I would buy 100 accounts and AFK cloak on all of them. Just because its that much fun. OP, you should try it sometime. Cloaking while AFK is incredible metagaming at its finest. You will make as much isk per hour as moose burger hands down. Sometimes I afk cloak while getting a cucumber facial. Its SO relaxing. .
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:52:00 - [152] Originally by: Kaedama Katar So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system? ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ This.... ---
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:04:00 - [153] Originally by: Cipher Jones Cloaking while AFK is incredible metagaming at its finest. You will make as much isk per hour as moose burger hands down. Until he found about your winning ways, then he'd go back and inflate his already inflated income statements so you weren't so winny. But first he'd biomass his char.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:18:00 - [154] Originally by: Kaedama Katar So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system? That is exactly what they're doing. They're very very unhappy that their 100% accurate intel tool has a tiiiiiiiiny counter to it that brings the reliability of that intel down toà ohà 95% or so (just to throw a number out there), and they want a counter to that counter. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:24:00 - [155] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kaedama Katar So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system? That is exactly what they're doing. They're very very unhappy that their 100% accurate intel tool has a tiiiiiiiiny counter to it that brings the reliability of that intel down toà ohà 95% or so (just to throw a number out there), and they want a counter to that counter. Which of course can be increased back up to 100% by simply hitting dscan every 2500ms. .
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:30:00 - [156] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kaedama Katar So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system? That is exactly what they're doing. They're very very unhappy that their 100% accurate intel tool has a tiiiiiiiiny counter to it that brings the reliability of that intel down toà ohà 95% or so (just to throw a number out there), and they want a counter to that counter. Which of course can be increased back up to 100% by simply hitting dscan every 2500ms. You mean, actually be at the computer?! Then what's the use having the bot in the first place?!
StillBorn CrackBaby	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:17:00 - [157] Man this boring subject has been beaten to death in any numbers of threads. My buddy who introduced me to EVE quit over this. I say cool, more ISK for me to be made then. If a cloaked ship has you so paralized with fear you can't play the game I'd say you got bigger issues in life to worry about.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:27:00 - [158] I am all for the idea of not allowing a cloaking device and a cyno generator to be fitted on the same ship at once. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:30:00 - [159] Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby Man this boring subject has been beaten to death in any numbers of threads. My buddy who introduced me to EVE quit over this. I say cool, more ISK for me to be made then. If a cloaked ship has you so paralized with fear you can't play the game I'd say you got bigger issues in life to worry about. "Sir sonar picked up a ghost, we think its a sub!" "Leave the peir anyways its not going to get us!" 5 minutes later the carrier sank with six torpedoes into her hull. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
fiizzzzzzy	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:44:00 - [160] if 1 afk cloaky in local stops you ratting then you dont deserve to be in 0.0, get a spine and play the game with some risk or go back PS3 games where you can save your efforts when it gets to hard for you until you find a cheat online to help you complete. Eve is not for you i am afriad
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:44:00 - [161] Originally by: Nova Fox "Sir sonar picked up a ghost, we think its a sub!" "Leave the peir anyways its not going to get us!" 5 minutes later the carrier sank with six torpedoes into her hull. Option "B"... carrier leaves with anti-submarine escort and all is well. Stupid captain dead. Smart one vacationing in the Caribbean after the cruise.
Mortigar Crel	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:46:00 - [162] Now I get so confused when people cry about an afk cloaker and how unfair it is because it forces them to dock up and hide... Now I thought 0.0 was suppose to be the hardcore area, I thought this is where you and your alliance members battled it out for supremacy and control, where an attack can come anytime, anywhere, from anyone. However what it seems to be for a lot of players is their personal isk making area. Anyone enters, well quick flee dock up wait for them to leave!!! When in 0.0 why not use your corp and alliance to help defend your turf? I hear so much about how joining a good corp/alliance is a must, but lets face it, its only a must when you want to blob others who dont stand a chance, when you want to strut around like mr big due to your back up.... However you just want to run around solo making isk all the rest of the time, without any risk of you losing your ship, the only risk should be to the enemy falling at your feet when you stomp them 5-1 in odds... When a so called "afk" cloaker is in local why not do what so many yap about on the forums and "get back up", why not get those who are bubbling a gate with 20-50 guys waiting for that 1 guy to jump through, get them to move and guard you while you run your mission or rat or mine or pick you nose... You say its not fair that 1 cloaker can sit afk and stop you from doing your business... well why is it your station can hold you forever docked up so that cloaker has no chance in ganking you? Why dont stations punt you out every 30 min and place a 30 second timer on re-entry on the pilot? If a player is hunting and you hide in a station in safety and he isnt afk wouldnt that make it fair? Lets face it, when it comes down to the afk cloak sux argument, it boils down to wanting to be able to get that easy kill or be able to dock up hiding from a threat... If it was about a fair fight, then you wouldnt dock up for days on end waiting on the cloaker to leave, you would dock up, amass your forces, head out and bait them... but when you dock up and hide that means your playing solo, want your solo area left alone and dont want anyone to bother you... you want pvp only when the odds are in your favor..
Sibil Vane Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:11:00 - [163] Just find out the cloakers home system and you go do it to them. Train falcon and /afk Profit. OR just hit dscan and align out while ***ing around at celestials or easy to scan down locations. All men are prepared to accomplish the incredible if their ideals are threatened.*
War Kitten	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:22:00 - [164] I am now cloaking afk in your thread. "Here's your sign..." If you don't get it, look it up. Somebody didn't like me doing it for you.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:25:00 - [165] Originally by: Mortigar Crel Now I get so confused when people cry about an afk cloaker and how unfair it is because it forces them to dock up and hide... Now I thought 0.0 was suppose to be the hardcore area Carebear area more like. The average person sitting in the alliance/regional intel channel is more likely NOT to report a neutral/red than they are to report it. The reason is simple - it will disrupt whatever isk-making activity they are engaged in as someone senior in the alliance may tell them to do something. Perhaps 5% of people go actively looking for fights - and that holds true across high-sec and null. Low-sec is significantly higher percentages looking for a fight as the industrial/manufacturing populations doesn't really exist the way it does in high-sec/null. The remaining 95% are passive players - they'll perhaps go if someone leads, but more likely they will only go if ordered to do so. NB - the above applies to sov null. NPC null ranges from happy clappy land to "wtf is PVE?". Sov null is pretty much all the same unless there's a war on in the constellation.
StillBorn CrackBaby	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:01:00 - [166] Originally by: Mortigar Crel Now I get so confused when people cry about an afk cloaker and how unfair it is because it forces them to dock up and hide... Now I thought 0.0 was suppose to be the hardcore area, I thought this is where you and your alliance members battled it out for supremacy and control, where an attack can come anytime, anywhere, from anyone. However what it seems to be for a lot of players is their personal isk making area. Anyone enters, well quick flee dock up wait for them to leave!!! When in 0.0 why not use your corp and alliance to help defend your turf? I hear so much about how joining a good corp/alliance is a must, but lets face it, its only a must when you want to blob others who dont stand a chance, when you want to strut around like mr big due to your back up.... However you just want to run around solo making isk all the rest of the time, without any risk of you losing your ship, the only risk should be to the enemy falling at your feet when you stomp them 5-1 in odds... When a so called "afk" cloaker is in local why not do what so many yap about on the forums and "get back up", why not get those who are bubbling a gate with 20-50 guys waiting for that 1 guy to jump through, get them to move and guard you while you run your mission or rat or mine or pick you nose... You say its not fair that 1 cloaker can sit afk and stop you from doing your business... well why is it your station can hold you forever docked up so that cloaker has no chance in ganking you? Why dont stations punt you out every 30 min and place a 30 second timer on re-entry on the pilot? If a player is hunting and you hide in a station in safety and he isnt afk wouldnt that make it fair? Lets face it, when it comes down to the afk cloak sux argument, it boils down to wanting to be able to get that easy kill or be able to dock up hiding from a threat... If it was about a fair fight, then you wouldnt dock up for days on end waiting on the cloaker to leave, you would dock up, amass your forces, head out and bait them... but when you dock up and hide that means your playing solo, want your solo area left alone and dont want anyone to bother you... you want pvp only when the odds are in your favor.. And the players whining about the cloakers are the same players sitting in a gate camp with 25 Battle Ships so they can jump 1 lone player coming through the gate in a Frigate. This is their idea of "hard core"...
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:29:00 - [167] Just saying that carrier leaving port was a historical event in ww2 a japanses carrier sunk before it even left harbor. But the thing is currenlty in eve its impossible to deter a blob which one cynoing cloaker can easily be the start of. Then again attentive people should be able to gtfo before its too late for them. I have seen the issues surrounding this sticky topic though the simple fact is the fix for cloak is a broadside shake up, not a simple fix. Because the simple idea of castle vs invader is alot more complex in eve than any board or flash game I know of. Castles are built to be safe behind. Invaders are made to break casltes. If you make a castle to easy to break into why even bother building them? If you make a castle to hard to break in why bother invading? Currently AFK Cloaking falls right ontop of the castle wall of breaking into the castle and in the opinion of some makes them to easy to break into. Most from simple cloak nerf to getting cloak all together would not make castles unassailable. All the remove local and getting rid of any ability to control territory physcially is all along the lines of why even bother building a castle? At least let me biuld a amarrdamned watch tower for my castle sheesh Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.03.21 19:57:00 - [168] Originally by: Nova Fox All the remove local and getting rid of any ability to control territory physcially is all along the lines of why even bother building a castle? At least let me biuld a amarrdamned watch tower for my castle sheesh AFK.. AFK.. AFK.. let it sink in. K.. Anyone asking CCP to make 'Castles' that don't need to be manned and offer safe protection should be banned. It is very simple to counter an AFK Cloaker.. ignore him. Now.. on the topic of an aware/active Cloaker. Bubbles and combat ships and dscan and align. There are plenty of ways to protect ship/space. It is up to the people to implement and do it. Crying for a protective counter measure that doesn't warrant the need for player effort is a push to make bots safer and more reliable to use for players. It is a push for SOV to never change.. which is already a much bigger problem than Cloakers to begin with. If people want space, they should protect it.. with themselves. Not cry for then hide behind game mechanics that cuddle them. Cloaks severely gimp a ship. Cov-op ships come gimped in hull form in terms of tank and dps when compared to similiar counterpart hulls. Turn them into EAFs.. fine. What will happen is a surge of unprobe-able eccm ships. So now people that aren't bots that cringe at a neutral or red in local will have the pleasure of seeing a ship on dscan. Brilliant.. nerf them too? I really dislike when people push snuggling idiots, morons, robots, newbs, socialistic imbreds of a mind washed in failure n desire that clings to wants undeserving.. the typical phase every MMO encounters, then promptly dies when implemented. This thread should now be about immediately making Delayed Local in nullsec a reality. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Sixtina KL The Shoop Group	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:05:00 - [169] Hey guys, what's happenin' - so ummmmmmm I'm gonna need you to invent a way to, you know, probe and eventually shoot down a cloaker - if you could do that, that'd be greeeeaaaaaat. __________________________________
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:35:00 - [170] Edited by: Nova Fox on 21/03/2011 20:38:48 Castle is a methaphorical term. Physically in eve it can be small as your ship or as large as your allied territories. you wouldnt want to make a ship tissue paper thin and unable to discourage attackers of any sort now would you? Also on a mordern battlefield today a 'castle' is very unmanned and very autonomous, Area of Denial and Phalanx Cannon systems are the new walls of the mordern castle. A little bit of 'automation' wouldnt hurt anyone though provided both sides get similar tools to defend or attack. How about a seige platform you can deploy and anchor to burn down an outpost? And by your argument Attackers shouldnt be able to break castles either without being at the keyboard if the defenders cant do the same to save thier own castles. However there is a lack of tools on the defender side to protect ship movements and the sorts from a cloaker which may nott exactly be afk. either way there is little ways to tell. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Marija Vanszar Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:43:00 - [171] I really do not understand this... if you're afraid of a covops.... go back to HS and eat rocks... This works in W-Space, why is everyone flaming about k-space? becouse you see someone in local? LOL in w-space you have no clue if there is noone in the system or 20 guys cloaked somewhere.... Stop flaming, HTFU!
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:49:00 - [172] Originally by: Nova Fox Edited by: Nova Fox on 21/03/2011 20:38:48 Castle is a methaphorical term. Physically in eve it can be small as your ship or as large as your allied territories. you wouldnt want to make a ship tissue paper thin and unable to discourage attackers of any sort now would you? Also on a mordern battlefield today a 'castle' is very unmanned and very autonomous, Area of Denial and Phalanx Cannon systems are the new walls of the mordern castle. A little bit of 'automation' wouldnt hurt anyone though provided both sides get similar tools to defend or attack. How about a seige platform you can deploy and anchor to burn down an outpost? And by your argument Attackers shouldnt be able to break castles either without being at the keyboard if the defenders cant do the same to save thier own castles. However there is a lack of tools on the defender side to protect ship movements and the sorts from a cloaker which may nott exactly be afk. either way there is little ways to tell. How is an AFK cloaker doing anything to anyone? The only things they do is strike fear into panzies and shut down macros. Anyone hating AFK cloaker, imo.. is either one of the two. An aware cloaker might be getting fleet/ship/POS positions.. system activity.. setting up an offensive position. How is there anything wrong with this? Once it uncloaks.. open season just like any other ship, cept in a gimpier hull. When its cloaked.. it can't do anything cept survilliance, hence COVERT OPERATIONS. A pretty valid and widely used military tactic.. since you love to compare rl with a science FICTION video game. They can do nothing else on their own.. the people that become gimped because of a cloaker are the people that don't deserve to operate in the space they are trying to operate in. Seriously.. if people suck so bad cause of a cloaker.. go back to highsec. And no.. there should not be a full proof safety mechanic implemented that allows unmanned protection to systems and such. The only such move is the correct one.. log off and/or quit. Use the latter if your idea to 'Castle' building must require a flawless safety net defense when no one is home or paying attention to defending their territory. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:10:00 - [173] Repeat after me: "You cannot be sure if a character is AFK, therefore you must work on the assumption they are not" What people do when there is a known active threat nearby, and what they do when there is not, are two completely different things.
Akhmed TDT	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:16:00 - [174] Originally by: Flaser snip afk cloaking. snip There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! Pure irony. "afk" people usually are doing something with their life. Noticing someone in system 24 hours a day, 7 days a week is not having a life.
rootimus maximus Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:22:00 - [175] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Simetriz That is the root of the cloaker Issue No. The root of the issue is local. AFK cloaking is simply a counter to local. If you want AFK cloaking gone, local needs to go as well, or the AFK cloaking will have to be replaced by something else that makes local (at least) as unreliable. Actually, local defeats one purpose of cloaking (AFK or otherwise). If you're cloaked, there should be no way for your target to know you're in the system until you decloak 5 meters off their bow and scare the crap out of them. With regard to the larger AFK cloak argument, can someone explain it to me? If I'm undocked, regardless of the security status of the system, if there's anyone else in local I assume I have at least one cloaked hostile on-grid at all times. In low / nullsec I also assume that hostile is capable of bringing in big ouchies. I conduct myself accordingly and most of the time it works (I still suck something chronic at PvP though).
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:59:00 - [176] Summary: The argument is about the closing down of systems due to sov owners unable to conduct their business out of concern that they'll be hot-dropped or attacked by a previously cloaked enemy, all while giving the system owners no possibility of countering it. The issue is if it is in the best interests of the game that adversaries should be able to use unattended or otherwise unmonitored perma-cloaked ships to put a system into a defensive posture (and therefore 'locking it down'), all while being completely immune to counter-attack. Thanks to botting etc, larger alliances could potentially open many dozen accounts to field these cloaked ships throughout entire constellations. Nobody in their right mind is going to conduct industry, or complexes etc in any ships worth using when they're unable to get even the smallest element of situational awareness on the enemy threat... attempting to do them in a fleet is no benefit either, as the enemy has all the time they want to ready a larger blob before acting. The end result being a level of unbalanced gameplay where active members lose out, where as people leaving their ships cloaked and unattended risk nothing, and cause significant damage against the enemies economy. The entire thread comes down to balance, and lack, thereof.
Holdout	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:20:00 - [177] Would training a bunch of cloaking alts and hiring their services out to AFK cloak in systems be a good startup? If so, IPO incoming...
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:23:00 - [178] Originally by: Sentient Blade Summary: The argument is about the closing down of systems due to sov owners unable to conduct their business out of concern that they'll be hot-dropped or attacked by a previously cloaked enemy, all while giving the system owners no possibility of countering it. The issue is if it is in the best interests of the game that adversaries should be able to use unattended or otherwise unmonitored perma-cloaked ships to put a system into a defensive posture (and therefore 'locking it down'), all while being completely immune to counter-attack. Thanks to botting etc, larger alliances could potentially open many dozen accounts to field these cloaked ships throughout entire constellations. Nobody in their right mind is going to conduct industry, or complexes etc in any ships worth using when they're unable to get even the smallest element of situational awareness on the enemy threat... attempting to do them in a fleet is no benefit either, as the enemy has all the time they want to ready a larger blob before acting. The end result being a level of unbalanced gameplay where active members lose out, where as people leaving their ships cloaked and unattended risk nothing, and cause significant damage against the enemies economy. The entire thread comes down to balance, and lack, thereof. Explain to everyone exactly how a CLOAKED ship locks down a system, please. The only real answer.. the people do it to themselves. Quit the bull**. If people are paying attention.. and you know, conduct themselves correctly to protect their best interests when a hostile is in system. They can be rdy to curb stomp. Its not like cynos are hard to spot. IF.. if.. people are conducting industrial operations in a system, and don't have combat sigments in place or nearby.. why should the aggresser be punished for the defenders inability to defend what they want to do? That again, is bull** to suggest such a thing should exist. IF.. if.. people are conducting industrial operations in a system, that means they should be aware and paying attention to the screen a decent percent of the time. Again.. cynos are not hard to spot. The problem tends to be when those conducting operations where they are doing something ingame.. but aren't actually at the screen. Bots. When a ship is CLOAKED.. it can't do anything cept watch. People crying foul simply because of eyes staring at them is pretty sad. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:35:00 - [179] You're obviously not paying attention... a cloaked ship locks a system down but putting it on a defensive footing, and when you're on the defensive you deploy different assets to when you're not. The point of defence is to protect your assets by keeping them out of the way of harm. Do I really need to start quoting Sun Tzu?
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:58:00 - [180] Originally by: Sentient Blade You're obviously not paying attention... a cloaked ship locks a system down but putting it on a defensive footing, and when you're on the defensive you deploy different assets to when you're not. The point of defence is to protect your assets by keeping them out of the way of harm. Do I really need to start quoting Sun Tzu? I don't give a ** if you start quoting someone other than yourself. But when you do.. make sure you remember everything he has said, so you don't end up making yourself look foolish when a different Tzu method is used against your own. And do you have any reason why there should not be defensive capabilities to deploy for different situations? Or are you implying when industrial things are in place, there should be no need to imploy defensive counter measures? Really.. not too difficult to drop warp-line bubbles and have a couple combat ships rdy to pounce. If this is too much work for someone to handle.. they don't deserve that system to begin with. Whats going to stop a cloaky ship from getting into undefended system and liting a cyno immediately? Whats your beef and counter idealogy to that tactic? Yes the key to defense is to protect assets. That takes effort and work. Do you believe it should not take work to make isk and control space? It takes effort and work to get a cloaky ship into position.. to do what again? Watch.. cause that's ALL a ship that is cloaked can do. It can not attack, it can not mine, it can not rat, it can not make money. The people letting themselves halt operations and curl up into a ball of tears because someone might be watching them is their own doing. A cloaked ship, again.. can't do anything. Nothing. Jus' watch. It does not have a module equip'd that stops the other people in the system, doesn't force them to change actions, or logoff, or dump everything for a lone possible maybe not aggressor. The people are doing it to themselves. And they should probably react and do something about it as a precaution.. *ing for CCP to do something about it for them is being a ***, and I see no reason why they should be in control of any section of space where they can't defend everything their enemies also have to defend. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:04:00 - [181] Originally by: Umega A cloaky can't do this, a cloaky can't do that No, it has to wait a whole half second after uncloaking to do them, by which point it's too late and you're screwed because the person uncloaking has already waited until they know they can win, and then done it. I can grasp this fact quite easily having only been down in nullsec a few months. Which leads me to think you're deliberately ignoring the game balance problem because it works to your advantage.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Hannibals Commando's	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:14:00 - [182] One doesn't stop going to the bar or clubbing because they might get stabbed.
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:16:00 - [183] Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 21/03/2011 23:17:49 Originally by: Florestan Bronstein a cloaky ship will usually only uncloak once it is within point range, which leaves you about 1.3s before it has you (Hulk) pointed... You forgot sensor recalibration in that statement. Edit: On most ships.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:17:00 - [184] Originally by: Sentient Blade Originally by: Umega A cloaky can't do this, a cloaky can't do that No, it has to wait a whole half second after uncloaking to do them, by which point it's too late and you're screwed because the person uncloaking has already waited until they know they can win, and then done it. I can grasp this fact quite easily having only been down in nullsec a few months. Which leads me to think you're deliberately ignoring the game balance problem because it works to your advantage. Yes.. I forgot how cloaking wins wars and lone ratters/explorers/miners/haulers are so important to the fabric of nullsec. God forbid the loners are boned by a pilgrim 5km off the port side.. Now explain to everyone exactly how this is going to be countered by your specific scenario that has nothing to with the AFK cloaking topic. Are they going to spend time scanning down a cloaker to thwart such attempts? Really? Come on now. You'd be too busy doing something else, right? I get it.. you would be busy doing something else with your ship designed to do such. God forbid there is a ship designed to hurt what it is your doing, losing your warped mental bubble of safety that you believe you are entitled cause you don't want to PvP at the particular moment. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please.
Kaedama Katar	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:17:00 - [185] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kaedama Katar So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system? That is exactly what they're doing. They're very very unhappy that their 100% accurate intel tool has a tiiiiiiiiny counter to it that brings the reliability of that intel down toà ohà 95% or so (just to throw a number out there), and they want a counter to that counter. Oh wow... just... wow Okay so now that I'm certain that this topic is absolutely and breathtakingly stupid I shall lean back, grab the popcorn and enjoy the show. Whiners... go ahead!
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:22:00 - [186] I'm just curious if you would still go to the bar if you knew there was someone there intending to stab you, and, whom could do so without significant consequence?
Cailais Amarr Neo-Tech Solutions	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:33:00 - [187] Originally by: Sentient Blade I'm just curious if you would still go to the bar if you knew there was someone there intending to stab you, and, whom could do so without significant consequence? No. But if I knew that information I'd bring some significant consequences with me. The moral of this story is if you don't like getting stabbed, don't go to bars where the clientFle carry knives. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Diablo Ex Caldari Reasonable People Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:42:00 - [188] I just figured it out, the only true solution to the issue.... We need CCP to place all of k-space under CONCORD juristiction. There, problem solved. ---
randomname4me	Posted - 2011.03.21 23:46:00 - [189] Originally by: Sentient Blade Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Jita would be down to about 200 inhabitants in about 30 minutes Almost all of them being auto trade bots. If that was true i would be an instant trillionaire since trade bots are very easy to manipulate into giving you all their profits. Petition\|Successful\|Reimbursement\|Lag Pick 3
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:28:00 - [190] Originally by: randomname4me If that was true i would be an instant trillionaire since trade bots are very easy to manipulate into giving you all their profits. I'll concede that one - although considering the size of my block list from sitting in Jita I wouldn't be surprised if the chat didn't continue to scroll up pretty damn fast from the bots flooding local with trade scams etc.
Sixtina KL The Shoop Group	Posted - 2011.03.22 02:29:00 - [191] Hi guys! Don't mind me, I was just coming around to see if that place was anything different from a classic Democrats VS Republicans flamewar or a Christians VS Muslims smackdown, but since it's quite obviously a multiplicative product of the two and neither party has any damn clue what they're talking about, it would be terrific if somebody could EVEmail me once at least one person comes to his senses and finds a middle ground somewhere in all that gigantic long-lasting all-purpose extra-strength piece of **** that this discussion has been from day one. Admit it, you're all just fighting a botters VS witch-hunters battle and nobody on here has the ovotestes to admit it. __________________________________
Chuck Sands	Posted - 2011.03.22 02:55:00 - [192] Originally by: Sixtina KL Admit it, you're all just fighting a botters VS witch-hunters battle and nobody on here has the ovotestes to admit it. I totally admit it. This is an issue about locking down bots. At least I hope all these people complaining about cloakers are concerned about their bots. Because otherwise they are just cowardly babies who want safety in their little 0.0 bear land.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.22 03:13:00 - [193] Originally by: Akhmed TDT Originally by: Flaser snip afk cloaking. snip There was a 2 week period in my 0.0 space where the same dude was "always" there, 24 hours day/7 days a week, get a life man! Pure irony. "afk" people usually are doing something with their life. Noticing someone in system 24 hours a day, 7 days a week is not having a life. heh, owned.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.22 12:47:00 - [194] Originally by: Sixtina KL Hi guys! Don't mind me, I was just coming around to see if that place was anything different from a classic Democrats VS Republicans flamewar or a Christians VS Muslims smackdown, but since it's quite obviously a multiplicative product of the two and neither party has any damn clue what they're talking about, it would be terrific if somebody could EVEmail me once at least one person comes to his senses and finds a middle ground somewhere in all that gigantic long-lasting all-purpose extra-strength piece of **** that this discussion has been from day one. Admit it, you're all just fighting a botters VS witch-hunters battle and nobody on here has the ovotestes to admit it. I already provided a middle ground solution. i think cloaks are fine as they are except in the case that someone cloaks up and goes to work for the next 10 hours. so the solution would be to provide some very slow and very inaccurate method of scanning cloaked ships down: 1. take 20 minutes to get a general location via scan 2. the "location" would be a sphere of 100km radius which the scanner would warp into random locations within. meaning they would still have to manage to decloak them. this would give a real scout/online griefer the chance to either GTFO (warping a mere 150km away would buy another 30+minutes...) or drop the cyno they were setting the trap for - thus the method would ONLY find people who are excessively AFK. this would also mean that cloaked players could still AFK all day if in the space of a real pansy alliance that doesn't have the balls to attempt to defend themselves. sidebar: its still irritating that so many people, who have likely never even been in a sov holding alliance, thinks only bots and pansy's dock up when nuets are in local. 1. they may just have a super-cap supported fleet on the other end a cyno waiting for a group of idiots who think they "aren't pansys" who will let one cloaked ship ruin their game play... 2. even if you have intel on what they have, if you amass a fleet that can defeat it then they simply wont decloak - and you can't find them (which IS the complaint here). I suppose you could rat/mine with large super-cap supported fleets, but that would be a fair bit ****ed. (would would kill rats faster than they respawn, and earn crap in the process) 3. those players who undock with cheap ships that they don;t care to lose are simply attracting more griefers thus **ing off everyone else in the alliance. given all of the above, the typical standings orders of every sov holding alliance i've known of has been to stay docked when reds or nuets are in system.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.03.22 12:58:00 - [195] I wonder if the OP would support cloaked vessels disappearing from Local?
Chuck Sands	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:05:00 - [196] Originally by: Arnakoz sidebar: its still irritating that so many people, who have likely never even been in a sov holding alliance, thinks only bots and pansy's dock up when nuets are in local. 1. they may just have a super-cap supported fleet on the other end a cyno waiting for a group of idiots who think they "aren't pansys" who will let one cloaked ship ruin their game play... 2. even if you have intel on what they have, if you amass a fleet that can defeat it then they simply wont decloak - and you can't find them (which IS the complaint here). I suppose you could rat/mine with large super-cap supported fleets, but that would be a fair bit ****ed. (would would kill rats faster than they respawn, and earn crap in the process) 3. those players who undock with cheap ships that they don;t care to lose are simply attracting more griefers thus **ing off everyone else in the alliance. given all of the above, the typical standings orders of every sov holding alliance i've known of has been to stay docked when reds or nuets are in system. What do you think 0.0 is supposed to be? A cake walk? Get over yourself. If you don't have the resources to protect your little kindercare of a system, then you shouldn't have it. If just the possibility of attack is enough to keep you docked up, then maybe staying in station spinning ships is more your type of game anyway.
bitters much Nekkid Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:23:00 - [197]
BIZZAROSTORMY	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:48:00 - [198] not that im in favour of it - but the obvious solution is something that counts cloak module activation cycles. First cycle = normal cap use. Second cycle = normal cap +1% third = normal +2% so that by 80-89 cloak module cycles its using too much cap and shuts down. The non-afk cloaker simply warps about a bit to get cap back up and then recloaks. Or just HTFU. I dont care really, Im riding a Vaga.
Ron Livingston	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:48:00 - [199] First I'll just say that I have no problems with cloaking, afk or otherwise. but to all the people who do, how about this for a potential change, add an additional mod that makes ships unscanable, and change the current cloak to make ships invisible. Scanning a cloaked ship would warp you to within like 30K or something. So then if you scan you can see what they're flying , if they move when you fly there, you get a chance to uncloak them. and fitting both a cloak and a antiscanner would gimp most ships if they wanted to be AFK the way they are now.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:53:00 - [200] Originally by: Ron Livingston First I'll just say that I have no problems with cloaking, afk or otherwise. but to all the people who do, how about this for a potential change, add an additional mod that makes ships unscanable, and change the current cloak to make ships invisible. Scanning a cloaked ship would warp you to within like 30K or something. So then if you scan you can see what they're flying , if they move when you fly there, you get a chance to uncloak them. and fitting both a cloak and a antiscanner would gimp most ships if they wanted to be AFK the way they are now. It's not really broken, therefore doesn't really need fixing. The real tears are flowing from people with bots that automatically warp to a station if someone shows up in local. No one cares about them.
Easton West	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:13:00 - [201] i support banning flaser
Ron Livingston	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:24:00 - [202] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Ron Livingston First I'll just say that I have no problems with cloaking, afk or otherwise. but to all the people who do, how about this for a potential change, add an additional mod that makes ships unscanable, and change the current cloak to make ships invisible. Scanning a cloaked ship would warp you to within like 30K or something. So then if you scan you can see what they're flying , if they move when you fly there, you get a chance to uncloak them. and fitting both a cloak and a antiscanner would gimp most ships if they wanted to be AFK the way they are now. It's not really broken, therefore doesn't really need fixing. The real tears are flowing from people with bots that automatically warp to a station if someone shows up in local. No one cares about them. I didn't say fix, I said change. The only reason I suggested it is I'm a little afraid that CCP may eventually cave in to these wieners.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:51:00 - [203] Originally by: Ron Livingston Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Ron Livingston First I'll just say that I have no problems with cloaking, afk or otherwise. but to all the people who do, how about this for a potential change, add an additional mod that makes ships unscanable, and change the current cloak to make ships invisible. Scanning a cloaked ship would warp you to within like 30K or something. So then if you scan you can see what they're flying , if they move when you fly there, you get a chance to uncloak them. and fitting both a cloak and a antiscanner would gimp most ships if they wanted to be AFK the way they are now. It's not really broken, therefore doesn't really need fixing. The real tears are flowing from people with bots that automatically warp to a station if someone shows up in local. No one cares about them. I didn't say fix, I said change. The only reason I suggested it is I'm a little afraid that CCP may eventually cave in to these wieners. Your "change" appears to allow any ship to become unscannable with the mod added and pretty well breaks cloaking. Both ideas are bad and contribute mainly to bots. You should pod yourself for suggesting them.
Kijo Rikki Caldari Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:54:00 - [204] You could always go kill the afk cloakers corpmates and alliance members indiscriminately.
Parleion	Posted - 2011.03.23 09:12:00 - [205] The general complaint seems to be that you have no idea if they have a massive hotdrop force on the other side. That's a stupid complaint. Let me tell you how to handle a 24hr afk cloaky: 1. Check out his corp. Hey look, it's right there in local where you've been staring at him. And it tells you exactly how many people are in it. Same with the alliance. You can then look them up on battleclinic and see if they have a history of hotdropping in nullsec. If they do, you can see if it's a bunch of blackops stuff, or if it's caps and super caps, or if it's a full on titan jump bridge hotdtrop. Free intel FTW. Let's say you're too dumb to do that though, or you're worried there might be more in play, as if some group of completely random neutral people decided they had nothing better to do than wait to ruin your ratting experience with a massive supercap hotdrop. 2. Set a trap. Use cheap ships at first. If you get hotdropped and it's by more than you can handle, well ****. You lost some ships, but you gained intel. Now you know their tactics, and you can set up a better trap. Afraid they'll jump in more supercaps than you can handle? Well bummer. That's nullsec. If you can't defend the space, you shouldn't own it. If you set a trap and they don't bite, they might have not been at the computer at that point in time, or they might have known that they couldn't handle whatever you might be bringing, or they might just be revealed to be nothing but a scare tactic with no real power backing it up. Try the trap again later, and again, and again. Even if he doesn't bite, you're getting your ratting and plexing in, so woo hoo at that. I've been the AFK cloaker, and I've been in the systems haunted by them. Trust me, when you fly in Mostly Harmless space, EVERYONE docks up and refuses to leave to AFK cloakers, and they're all just as idiotic as the people complaining on this thread. If you don't have the balls to fly in nullsec, don't fly in nullsec. Period.
Azhpol Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.23 10:34:00 - [206] Or, here is an idea... Do your ratting with a recon cloaked up on grid with you... 100km+ point/sensor damp range on my arazu, with dual points and 3 damps. Cloaker shows up and uncloaks, BLAM! Now hes locked down by your friendly cloaker. You see a cyno go up? Safe up/fleet up/man up. You see local spike for no reason? your being hotdropped by a blackops, and know what your up against(mainly bombers). Still fearful of being hotdropped? Cynojammers are your friend, if you have sov you should have some of these. Now, either learn to fly smart, or get the hell out of nullsec so those of us who can hack it can have your space without having to grief you out of eve as a whole to do it.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.23 10:51:00 - [207] Originally by: Kijo Rikki You could always go kill the afk cloakers corpmates and alliance members indiscriminately. Which could have interesting results for those AFK Cloakers in NPC corps.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.23 10:55:00 - [208] Originally by: Chuck Sands If you don't have the resources to protect your little kindercare of a system, then you shouldn't have it. you obviously didn't comprehend my post. resources [and balls] have nothing to do with it.
Azhpol Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:03:00 - [209] Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: Chuck Sands If you don't have the resources to protect your little kindercare of a system, then you shouldn't have it. you obviously didn't comprehend my post. resources [and balls] have nothing to do with it. Its either a lack of balls or a lack of understanding how mechanics works. Or you run a bot. L2P or GB2WOW
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:12:00 - [210] Originally by: Azhpol Or, here is an idea... Do your ratting with a recon cloaked up on grid with you... 100km+ point/sensor damp range on my arazu, with dual points and 3 damps. Cloaker shows up and uncloaks, BLAM! Now hes locked down by your friendly cloaker. You see a cyno go up? Safe up/fleet up/man up. You see local spike for no reason? your being hotdropped by a blackops, and know what your up against(mainly bombers). Still fearful of being hotdropped? Cynojammers are your friend, if you have sov you should have some of these. Now, either learn to fly smart, or get the hell out of nullsec so those of us who can hack it can have your space without having to grief you out of eve as a whole to do it. cynojamming is good. but there should be some level of cat and mouse to be had with cloakers. and AFK cloaking while at work makes griefing way too easy IMO.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:14:00 - [211] Originally by: Arnakoz cynojamming is good. but there should be some level of cat and mouse to be had with cloakers. and AFK cloaking while at work makes griefing way too easy IMO. Fleet up when bearing and you wont have any problems with a single AFK cloaker.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:23:00 - [212] Originally by: baltec1 Fleet up when bearing and you wont have any problems with a single AFK cloaker. ug. i'm going to stop talking about hotdrops and traps, or even trying to explain the issue. fine, AFK cloaking ftw.
Azhpol Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:24:00 - [213] Edited by: Azhpol on 23/03/2011 11:24:54 Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: Azhpol Or, here is an idea... Do your ratting with a recon cloaked up on grid with you... 100km+ point/sensor damp range on my arazu, with dual points and 3 damps. Cloaker shows up and uncloaks, BLAM! Now hes locked down by your friendly cloaker. You see a cyno go up? Safe up/fleet up/man up. You see local spike for no reason? your being hotdropped by a blackops, and know what your up against(mainly bombers). Still fearful of being hotdropped? Cynojammers are your friend, if you have sov you should have some of these. Now, either learn to fly smart, or get the hell out of nullsec so those of us who can hack it can have your space without having to grief you out of eve as a whole to do it. cynojamming is good. but there should be some level of cat and mouse to be had with cloakers. and AFK cloaking while at work makes griefing way too easy IMO. You know, I see these guys all the time in my alliance pocket, but they cause my corp no grief. The rest of the alliance hides unless someone gets caught, then everyone is in a standing fleet and all your alliance in system can be in warp to you within seconds of you being pointed. Within the corp we just make sure we have a cloaky cruiser on overwatch, and carry ECM drones. Amazing how quick almost anything dies when it can't lock and can't run away because its pointed, ECMed, and damped out between the recon and the ECM drones. You can't take em out while they are cloaked, you are right. But they are flying crappy ships that can't take any kind of beating if they get caught, so catch them as soon as they are vulnerable. You will laugh you ass off the first time you see them try to run when your cloaky uncloak behind them Edit: stop trying to nerf things that can give you free kills if you play smarter than they do.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:25:00 - [214] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kaedama Katar So let me get this straight... You guys are complaining because people are, in a sense, nullifying your 100% free threat alert a.k.a. local chat by dedicating an entire account to having a cloak-skilled and covops-fitted character online in the system? That is exactly what they're doing. They're very very unhappy that their 100% accurate intel tool has a tiiiiiiiiny counter to it that brings the reliability of that intel down toà ohà 95% or so (just to throw a number out there), and they want a counter to that counter. Which of course can be increased back up to 100% by simply hitting dscan every 2500ms. You mean, actually be at the computer?! Then what's the use having the bot in the first place?! I was simply suggesting to have the bot dscan every 2500ms... .
baltec1	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:32:00 - [215] Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: baltec1 Fleet up when bearing and you wont have any problems with a single AFK cloaker. ug. i'm going to stop talking about hotdrops and traps, or even trying to explain the issue. fine, AFK cloaking ftw. 90% of traps are bridged bombers which die fast. If they are daft enough to bring carriers then we will stop it from getting away and ring the bat phone or kill it ourselves.
Ron Livingston	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:42:00 - [216] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Ron Livingston Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Ron Livingston First I'll just say that I have no problems with cloaking, afk or otherwise. but to all the people who do, how about this for a potential change, add an additional mod that makes ships unscanable, and change the current cloak to make ships invisible. Scanning a cloaked ship would warp you to within like 30K or something. So then if you scan you can see what they're flying , if they move when you fly there, you get a chance to uncloak them. and fitting both a cloak and a antiscanner would gimp most ships if they wanted to be AFK the way they are now. It's not really broken, therefore doesn't really need fixing. The real tears are flowing from people with bots that automatically warp to a station if someone shows up in local. No one cares about them. I didn't say fix, I said change. The only reason I suggested it is I'm a little afraid that CCP may eventually cave in to these wieners. Your "change" appears to allow any ship to become unscannable with the mod added and pretty well breaks cloaking. Both ideas are bad and contribute mainly to bots. You should pod yourself for suggesting them. This unscannable mod would be same as cloak is now, and make the ship incapable of using any other mods at the same time. So it wouldn't contribute to bots, or take away from the T3 unprobeables. And for the record, I don't want things to change. Being cloaky is fun. But I think my suggestion is better than removing cloaks, or adding fuel usage or some of the other stuff ppl want.
mrmooo Caldari Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.23 12:49:00 - [217] game working as intended --if op and his corp/alliance cant figure out a counter to this then they should move back to hi sec I wonder if op alliance/corp actually fought for their system or were given/renting it
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:00:00 - [218] Originally by: mrmooo game working as intended --if op and his corp/alliance cant figure out a counter to this then they should move back to hi sec I wonder if op alliance/corp actually fought for their system or were given/renting it The issue is they'd need to set the cloakers blue, which would leave themselves open to ****tage.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:08:00 - [219] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: mrmooo game working as intended --if op and his corp/alliance cant figure out a counter to this then they should move back to hi sec I wonder if op alliance/corp actually fought for their system or were given/renting it The issue is they'd need to set the cloakers blue, which would leave themselves open to ****tage. So what you're saying is that the afk-cloakers need a system in place where they regularly rotate through the different systems, thus keeping fresh pilots in each system on a regular basis. I like it.
Neamus	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:11:00 - [220] I'm happy with the way cloaking is atm, and I don't see any valid arguments here to change it. Just because something irritates you or interrupts your risk free ratting doesn't mean it should be nerfed. So I call working as intended. Saying that though, I would like to see an auto-refresh option added for d-scan. It wouldn't change or unbalance anything really, it would just remove the need to click a button every 25 seconds. Clicking a button every 25 seconds doesn't sound like that big a deal, but after a few hours it really starts to become irritating.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:18:00 - [221] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: mrmooo game working as intended --if op and his corp/alliance cant figure out a counter to this then they should move back to hi sec I wonder if op alliance/corp actually fought for their system or were given/renting it The issue is they'd need to set the cloakers blue, which would leave themselves open to ****tage. So what you're saying is that the afk-cloakers need a system in place where they regularly rotate through the different systems, thus keeping fresh pilots in each system on a regular basis. I like it. That would work. Or the afkers can get together and camp several systems in an area, more efficiently nullifying macro activities. You can also wait until they set you blue, then come back in a more powerful ship, and reap the rewards.
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:03:00 - [222] No. Rat in anomalies, never warp to 0 on them. Get a mate to rat with - you've got mates right?
Mrs Management Limited Liabilty	Posted - 2011.04.02 12:30:00 - [223] Disagree ..... Ships that are designed to cloak should stay cloaked ... All other ships should not be able to fit a cloaking device.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2011.04.02 12:41:00 - [224] If an AFK player affects you this much, you and your corp/alliance should to stay in high sec.
Shandir Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:48:00 - [225] Every one of these threads makes me think it might be worth heading to null in a cloaky ship for the tears. These anti-cloaker threads are not having the effect you hope for. Also, you claim to be able to mine with no user interaction...you know that's not possible unless you're botting right? (I mean, cargo-hold fills up in less than that, asteriods are destroyed, and surely you're at least chatting with a corpmate?). Can a CCP guy go have a peek at his account? -

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