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xelerator	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:44:00 - [91] yes plz fix the lag before bring new useless **** like PI.
Vlade Randal Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:47:00 - [92] Originally by: El'Niaga PL vs -A- and friends has been having lag free fights. This is because PL and -A- are much smaller entities than those fighting in the North. It's a totally different scale of war. In Geminate there are more pilots, more alliances, and more supercapitals involved. This creates a need for more resources than the smaller fights you are referring to.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:59:00 - [93] Originally by: El'Niaga I can't really support this idea. First off the problem isn't CCP, there is no game that can support more than CCP can in a single battle. PL vs -A- and friends has been having lag free fights. The trick don't cram 900+ of your own side into a system. That's already past the server limit so anything more makes it crawl. The technology does not exist on the planet that you can have 1200 vs 1200 battles that are lag free. We don't have the infrastructure for that fast of transmission and processors are not advanced enough to process fast enough to control that much. The problem is CCP and only CCP. Nice no other game can support more than eve in one fight, but the issue is that no other game has game mechanics that requires that, unlike eve. Sure the NC or the DRF can decide they wont put more than 200 people in a system, that side loses any war. The entire 0.0 sov mechanics are atm only about putting as many people as possible on one grid, other games might not support battles the size of eve, but they have better mechanics where such blobbing is not a requirement. In eve you just have to do it if you want to keep your space, it is not optional.
Vlajko san 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:00:00 - [94] I lost more ship in my Eve life while offline (or being unable to react) then I lost while being online (or being able to do anything). One of the main reasons I'm nowhere to be seen in Eve recently.
Jarroman	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:01:00 - [95] Edited by: Jarroman on 21/03/2011 15:02:11 i believe we should divide the problem into 2 parts. 1st - that's the lag. which is fine. blame and flame all you want - but expecting lag free battle with 2k players in local is just unrealistic. 20mins cycling / dying without knowing it till it is too late etc. Well, this is what we sign up for when we w8 at a titan bridge rdy to jump in a system with already lots of pilots inside. 2nd - game mechanics / server - client issues. SINCE we do sign up for that stuff... (not because we want to crush the nod, or because we are mazochists - but because we can't stand letting our brosefs die while we make iskies) it's CCP's MINIMUM OBLIGATION to protect our assets when we are NOT LOGGED IN. i don't care how they do it. they MUST do it, it is beyong comprehension to loose assets when you are not even logged in .- Perhaps ccp should make a "real time combat" limit to 1.5k players , and above that number implement a turn based fleet vs fleet mode that is playable only by the fc/wing/squad commanders or everyone somehow, i don't know... Large fleet fights are turn based as they are anyway with clicking - watching the monitor window for outstandings - clicking - w8ing ... and so on. The irony is that ccp invited all these pilots into 0.0 when they implemented the dominion expansion. i'm not judging - i actually prefer it from shooting pos-es down to take sov - but i think it's safe to make some conclusions now about how that expansion influenced 0.0 afairs.
blueeyesDK	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:01:00 - [96] I look at it this way: First of all I totally agree with Randel 110% Secondly : They do more and more new stuff, new feature instead of making what they have atm work perfectly. They need to concentrate about making what they have work, and I¦m sure this will make all of the players in EvE happy. By now CCP should be able to handle big fights in eve. Hell, they can handle 1200 something in jita with out much lag. They ( CCP) have even made a form to send in before big fights but it seems it has had no effect. I do not wanna loose anymore ships due to lag. Blue
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:02:00 - [97] Originally by: Vlade Randal Hi, I logged off during a battle becasue my ship stopped responding and i received repeated and contant lag report which never cleared, and several hours later my friends were saying that my character and ship was still online and visible in the game. I did not want to loose my ship while not even in the game so i logged back in. It took me about an hour to log back in to find my ship stuck, and non responsive to my commands once again. Next thing I knew i was killed and podded to my home system. A good number of my friends all died while logged off, due to game bugs, and the mechanics and programming of the game failing to work as intended. This is not acceptable, given the amount of money we pay to play this game. Fleet battles are not working! Many of us are re-considering whether we want to continue playing EvE after recent events. We need the game to support large battles. At the moment, one side gets major lag, and cannot even get into gang, and the other side gets free movement and no lag, and can totally destroy the laggged out enemy. This is not a fleet battle, this is a fkn lag massacre. We are not dying because our tactics are bad. We are dying because the game cannot support large battles and continuously **s us over with lag. Many people logged off at safe tower, then desynced, then logged back in at spawned at the enemy tower. What the hell is that for christ sake? Please fix the bloody game and address this. Regards Vlade Randal PVP Director - hirr corporation So you are wondering about lag while there are like 2000 players on grid? Seriously? I bet when CCP makes 2000 men battles lagfee the NC will simply bring 4000 people and keep ***ing about the lag. (actually the NC is only bithching about the lag they cause only when they lose) Face it, this fight against the lag is one that can't be won by CCP because huge power blocks will simply keep bringing more people as long as the game mechanics necourage them to do so in order to win...
John Maynard Keynes	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:09:00 - [98] Originally by: AnarchistUK I don't even go to large scale fights anymore. I do not find it enjoyable clicking F1 button every 45 minutes. This isn't about our alliance tag, it happens to ALL pilots in large scale fights. Sometimes you can be on the lucky side and ****, sometimes you will be in the receiving end. My personal choice is to simply keep away from these fights, because I actually want to have a ship that reacts to commands or logs off when I have no aggro. However, if everybody did this, nobody would contest sov. The game urges us to continue jumping into these lag fights, if we don't, then alliances lose space. PL and -A- have battles with low lag in Delve atm with around 700 in local Tell your overlords to cancele some blue standings and you can have fun again...
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:13:00 - [99] And get overrun by DRF who do bring then 1k pilots? The first group here that decides to bring less people loses. Originally by: Makumba Aki So you are wondering about lag while there are like 2000 players on grid? Seriously? I bet when CCP makes 2000 men battles lagfee the NC will simply bring 4000 people and keep *****ing about the lag. (actually the NC is only bithching about the lag they cause only when they lose) Face it, this fight against the lag is one that can't be won by CCP because huge power blocks will simply keep bringing more people as long as the game mechanics necourage them to do so in order to win... In the last part you show you understand it, so why the first part? If the server can handle 2k people we will indeed bring more than that. But that is simply because bringing alot of people is not optional in sov fights, more people is always better, if we dont do it, our opponents do it. The issue is CCPs horrible sov mechanic. Blobbing the crap out of a node isnt fun, but it is the most effective way if you want to keep your space.
cuarentaydos The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:18:00 - [100] In General, I support the idea. However, while the lag situation with all its perks (10-15min cycle time, soul-crushing lag messages, ships dying half an hour after being shot and warping out, etc) is something that certainly has to be worked on, it is also something everybody more or less willingly accepts when jumping into a lagged-out system. I'm not saying it's not relevant, but CCP knows this and raging about it at this point won't help the process. The main problem I see here, and the one that really causes a lot of anger, is that in the current state of the server, you can lose your ship despite having logged out (or crashed) hours ago. Many nullsec dwellers live by the philosophy that once you undock your ship in 0.0, you accept and eventually expect to lose it. Fine. But efforts should be made to ensure that as soon as an account is offline and their aggression timer is up, their assets are invulnerable, losing ships while at work / in bed with your computer turned off is not part of the deal. Originally by: Makumba Aki So you are wondering about lag while there are like 2000 players on grid? Seriously? I bet when CCP makes 2000 men battles lagfee the NC will simply bring 4000 people and keep *****ing about the lag. (actually the NC is only bithching about the lag they cause only when they lose) Every single fleet battle is essentially a showcase for a prisoners' dilemma case, with bringing as many pilots as you can always being the dominant strategy. That has nothing to do with who is involved, any side in any conflict opting for the inferior strategy of just bringing a few hundred would inevitably get obliterated. Now I am fairly certain CCP understands this premise, and within current game mechanics, there is nothing either they or the players can do to solve it. But there was a feature announced once that might have helped a bit. Anyone remember treaties? Sure, nobody brings 200 people when the opponent has 600 at the ready. But what if the leaders of the involved parties could sign an in-game treaty, voluntarily limiting their fleet size to a certain number? A small breach of that treaty within a margin of error of say 10% would result in a reasonable fine, but if any side decided to bring significantly more than agreed to, they would automatically forfeit their strategic goal (usually sov-related).

ankerf cram Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:24:00 - [101] signed
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:32:00 - [102] Originally by: Furb Killer And get overrun by DRF who do bring then 1k pilots? The first group here that decides to bring less people loses. Originally by: Makumba Aki So you are wondering about lag while there are like 2000 players on grid? Seriously? I bet when CCP makes 2000 men battles lagfee the NC will simply bring 4000 people and keep ***ing about the lag. (actually the NC is only bithching about the lag they cause only when they lose) Face it, this fight against the lag is one that can't be won by CCP because huge power blocks will simply keep bringing more people as long as the game mechanics necourage them to do so in order to win... In the last part you show you understand it, so why the first part? If the server can handle 2k people we will indeed bring more than that. But that is simply because bringing alot of people is not optional in sov fights, more people is always better, if we dont do it, our opponents do it. The issue is CCPs horrible sov mechanic. Blobbing the crap out of a node isnt fun, but it is the most effective way if you want to keep your space. Because EVE is a sanbox and because huge powerblocks are a port of the problem. Alliances like PL, NCDOT and Ev0ke have desided to stay "small" in ordet to keep having fun in eve. NC and DRF could simply cancle 50% of their blue list and the problem would vanish for the most part and everyone would have more fun again. Alternatively, CCP could nerf the ability to gather blobs by removing JBs and "nerfing" cynos or limit the ability of power blocks be big by imposing some kind of limits to blue list or the maximal number of players in an alliance. However, I promise you that such limitation would cause the playersbase to outrage even more. Just look at the JB discussion in this thread. Plus, the TO didn't * about the gamemechanics but about the inability of CCP to fix lag and it is funny how NC never ***es when win thank to the lag they cause or successfully crash the nod on purpose. Thus, the right question here is not: "Why can't CCP fix the lag?" but "Why are powerblocks able to gather such huge fleets?". Thus, this thread here is just ridiculous.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:39:00 - [103] NCDOT recruited everyone with a pulse to outblob the locals... Sure the NC can split up, then soon again we are back together under our new russian overlords. The most effective method to keep your sov (or get new sov) is simply outblobbing your opponent. Of your examples PL does not actually want to keep the sov and evoke/NC. have an interesting way of intentionally staying small considering the margin at which they outnumbered the locals in fleets. You do realise evoke couldnt achieve anything until NC. came along to provide more numbers (and especially supercaps)? (No disrespect towards evoke).
Nefertari 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:56:00 - [104] -ve have not been playable for more then a year in my opinion.
Gloster II	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:59:00 - [105] bump
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:01:00 - [106] Edited by: Makumba Aki on 21/03/2011 16:07:54 Originally by: Furb Killer NCDOT recruited everyone with a pulse to outblob the locals... Sure the NC can split up, then soon again we are back together under our new russian overlords. The most effective method to keep your sov (or get new sov) is simply outblobbing your opponent. Of your examples PL does not actually want to keep the sov and evoke/NC. have an interesting way of intentionally staying small considering the margin at which they outnumbered the locals in fleets. You do realise evoke couldnt achieve anything until NC. came along to provide more numbers (and especially supercaps)? (No disrespect towards evoke). I am not an "Ev0ke-expert" but I do read EN24 propaganda, as far I remember there are only few battles where you see Ev0ke and NC. together. Ev0ke has the problem that they don't have US TZ players and this is where NC. helps them out. The search function of EN24 helps here as well: http://killboard.ev0ke.de/?a=kill_related&kll_id=136328 http://killboard.ev0ke.de/?a=kill_related&kll_id=129075 http://killboard.ev0ke.de/?a=kill_related&kll_id=120998 http://killboard.ev0ke.de/?a=kill_related&kll_id=120998 http://killboard.ev0ke.de/?a=kill_related&kll_id=121774 and so on.. As you can see, there are no NC. ships involved, ev0ke is outnumbered and still wins. However, you are right that even pros like PL can't fight huge blobs without bringing their own blob. Thus again, the problem is not the inability of CCP to fix the lag, it is the combination of "broken" game mechanics and the tendency of players to create huge power blocks even though it "destroys" the game. Or as a wise MM guy (cuarentaydos) correctly concluded (above). This is the classic prisonners' dilemma (game theory).
Saul Reaver Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:06:00 - [107] Signed, And before all you russians/Ex Tri Mk 352 and butthurt Pandemic Legion toons type in UMAD it is the same for DRF etc than it is for us. The other night we got lucky and **d their face due to them being "Stuck". Then 2 days later we get our faces **d due to being "Stuck". What i'm saying is this game really is at the end of the road if this carries on. Alot of us are at the end of our patience with you CCP. So......... SORT YOUR F--------G S---T game or we take our money elsewhere. ----------------------------------------
Finious Boggs	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:06:00 - [108] Welp, my opinion. Just another one of those times, when the CCP Staff is just too busy or too arrogant to take care of business. Yes the game is screwed up, and it's our fault. LOL. It's always our fault, and CCP will take this position every time, unless you have proof positive. Come on guys, shouldn't it have been obvious to the CCP staff, that this system, and the surrounding systems, should have been Perma Re-enforced. This is real simple stuff here, I can't tell you how many times, I've lost a ship to this exact situation. You know in a good fight if we loose a ship, at least we get the satisfaction of a real fight. Loosing it this way, is just sht. Bottom line, is total disappointment with this. Be advised CCP, my playing buddies decide there going to migrate to a different platform, where you think I'm going to go? By the way here are just a few of the GTC's I've purchased and sold in the last year. * Code: GSWUSJHBR96SXP4N Code: GSXDCTHS7XQKGVCZ Code: GSXEJMYNMEGCKC6Y Code: GSXEZ3QC5DJQ67F8 Code: GSY5BYV932CGHAPL Code: GSYSFMQMADWY8E5E Code: GSYVF2XR85VPMRAP Code: GSZ9D5UB5JLY9MEW Code: GSZHHM6GF79Q98FE Code: GSZPPLPSUE4NRX6J Code: GT2BFVHRQ7BKNK4M Code: GT2DVX7NVJ4EBQ7Z Code: GT2SA62HXDBSTJGN Code: GT4SH6Y2UHZNX98G Code: GT4T2A398MMX5GU4 Code: GT5UZX494FKP8H22 Code: GT8EU55TEXEXY37X Code: GT8KN89XG2UA9R54 Code: GT9QUPS2SV8D4KMR Code: FBA8NSLKAL3CGWAR Code: FBALF4L3XR4NBBRJ Code: FBAVD4BRR9H2FSH8 Code: FBBAVWF2DBSZJWKL Code: FBC4FXWA5XWQSZ95 Code: FBC4WGAYYB6XB8QH Code: FBCDLM7PFJJWAQA2 Code: FBCGRNMJCGJWSA6A Code: FBCR645FUQ43ZCJD Code: FBCT699D7Y5TBA6T Code: 7VXPFKX6FKHQJXQ5 Code: 7VXR3AQRGZA96XZ7 Code: 7VY4R2AYX3BXHK4R Code: 7VYPDY6CUFUFZEVG Code: 7VZ7EZR2NFGN3L8S Code: 7VZF38NXZQHSR9FW Code: 7VZFDCH56RD2BMNG Code: 7VZGJFPDHRA3NXXC Code: 7VZHYW3K6LKSB9E3 Code: 7VZUGK7JC665QWEY Code: ZZT7LQHVBKJ2F9YC Code: ZZT84QXH3JWP3S6K Code: ZZT87SP9F5RN5AS7 Code: ZZT9NW7ZLWSCF298 Code: ZZTBTGTFM9K7KD4K Code: ZZTCRAFTWRHPDMJM Code: ZZTCZH3NCBT4RW85 Code: ZZTDCG4TYKZB5YCZ Code: ZZTDVCM9MUC8XYQQ Code: ZZTEF6QMR4PRZ6S5
lordakumatatar	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:07:00 - [109] Supported
deadmaus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:15:00 - [110] Not working as intended

Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:28:00 - [111] Originally by: El'Niaga I can't really support this idea. First off the problem isn't CCP, there is no game that can support more than CCP can in a single battle. PL vs -A- and friends has been having lag free fights. The trick don't cram 900+ of your own side into a system. That's already past the server limit so anything more makes it crawl. The technology does not exist on the planet that you can have 1200 vs 1200 battles that are lag free. We don't have the infrastructure for that fast of transmission and processors are not advanced enough to process fast enough to control that much. The problem IS CCP. If you can't eliminate lag at least you can offer SOME kind of customer service. It's NOT a client side error. It's NOT related to the quality of your connection. It's NOT your ISP's fault. It's NOT user's error. It's NOT playing outside of game mechanics. It's CCP's direct responsibility to handle this situation because it's happening on their server infrastructure and their server side code. Losing your ship due to lag became acceptable in EVE. Losing your ship several HOURS after being kicked out of the server is incompetence of CCP and their sole responsibility. If they won't reimburse ships, for reasons stated in devblog, the least they can do is patch the server code to remove your ship from the field when you get the black screen. That is NOT messing with the outcome of the battle or showing favouritism to any side involved. If you can't even log in and you got kicked out because of server halt (not lag - complete stop), then your ship shouldn't be on the field in the first place. You still lose your paid game time by not being able to log in, which has to be fixed too, but for a start at least they should provide SOME kind of customer service. After all, if removing of ghost ships gets the highest priority possible and actually works, complete halt would maybe be reduced to lag only. That's far from a solution, but it's a start.
javer 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:28:00 - [112] having lost an erebus after being logged out and on an alt for 1h 15 mins and then having my pod killed at 9h15mins from logout id say ccp has some work ahead of them but ofc tyhey just say your the one bringing the numbers nothing we can do well its now gotten to the point were 0.0 is conbsidering testing the limits of empire nodes, consider it a promise or a threat of briniging the issue to light from those that wil lcomplain and do the choice of hitting quit faster -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:34:00 - [113] Originally by: javer having lost an erebus after being logged out and on an alt for 1h 15 mins and then having my pod killed at 9h15mins from logout id say ccp has some work ahead of them but ofc tyhey just say your the one bringing the numbers nothing we can do well its now gotten to the point were 0.0 is conbsidering testing the limits of empire nodes, consider it a promise or a threat of briniging the issue to light from those that wil lcomplain and do the choice of hitting quit faster May I ask you something? When you hit the "Jump to 020" button while sitting in your Erebus and knowing that there are like 1000+ players in system, what did you expect to happen?
MegaThordin	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:43:00 - [114] +1 supported. An unresponsive pilot/ship should not be on grid at all - disconnect would be the easiest solution. On a personal note, I know how hard it is to implement a good load balancing cluster. But a node should never let 1000+ people into a system if the node can't handle the load from x number of pilots sending x number of commands to the server. /MegaThordin
xMartok Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:44:00 - [115] joining fleet battles with supercarriers and titans is just suidice atm, CCP must fix this. throwing all those good titans and sc's to die in lag is crazy.
Schantalle	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:45:00 - [116] Edited by: Schantalle on 21/03/2011 16:45:38 Game exactly works as intended by both CCP and the NC. CCP says "massive fleetfights" and afaik having 400 players in system without mentionable lag is achievable. NC says "cram the target system until our enemies cant fight" and by bringing 2000+ players, this is also achievable. (DRF might call the same tactic... but I don¦t speak enough russian to quote). I promise: should ccp ever manage to support "all NC ships in one system", there will be another "move your bookmarks" or "drop containers" initiative to generate enough lag to have something to cry about and petition when ships get welped. If all this doesn¦t help, some hostile entity will be called "cheater", "botter" or whatever seems to be an acceptable excuse for oneselves fail. Jumping a titan into a system everybody knows to be crammed and laggy and loosing it, only means one thing: Pilot and FC failed to eat enough brains for breakfast. Nothing more, nothing less. CCP made a sandbox. They ALLOW players to ruin their own fun through their own actions. This is not a fault - this is simply an different concept than teletubbies online.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:47:00 - [117] Originally by: Makumba Aki Originally by: javer having lost an erebus after being logged out and on an alt for 1h 15 mins and then having my pod killed at 9h15mins from logout id say ccp has some work ahead of them but ofc tyhey just say your the one bringing the numbers nothing we can do well its now gotten to the point were 0.0 is conbsidering testing the limits of empire nodes, consider it a promise or a threat of briniging the issue to light from those that wil lcomplain and do the choice of hitting quit faster May I ask you something? When you hit the "Jump to 020" button while sitting in your Erebus and knowing that there are like 1000+ players in system, what did you expect to happen? I'll answer for him. We all expect this to happen: "Logging in PvP combat If you are in PvP combat, your ship will warp to a random point and remain there for 15 minutes, unless it's being warp scrambled, in which case it will be at the mercy of your enemies. If your ship is blown up after you log out, your pod will remain for another 15 minutes, which is plenty of time for a resourceful player to find it, using scanner probes." source: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logging_out
Phobos Pasiphae	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:51:00 - [118] I have seen this happen too often and is getting worse instead of improving. Large scale battle is one of the best features of the game. If it is broken so is the game. It isn't much of a victory when you are on the side that isn't lagged to death. More like shooting fish in a barrel. The vast majority of players prefer a more sporting scenario. Losing an expensive ship because you are on the lagged out side is BS and a reason to look at new avenues of entertainment on which to spend money.
Schantalle	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:52:00 - [119] Edited by: Schantalle on 21/03/2011 16:52:56 No, you¦re expecting heavy lag und unforseeable consequences. That why both sides bring that amount of people. Don¦t tell everyone you¦re stupid and don¦t know what happens when you enter a 2000+ players system with a supercap. Stop whining and accept reality. It¦s simply and only your fault.
King Rothgar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:59:00 - [120] Eve used to lag out with 100 people, they fixed that. Then people brought 200 and crashed it. So CCP improved it further. Now you're *****ing about having 2k people on grid crashing the game. The problem is not the game, it's you. The hardware and code can only support so much. Eve is designed to not have hard limits but ffs keep it reasonable. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig.



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