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Cassus Temon	Posted - 2011.03.23 05:39:00 - [211] ..and by the way, while you've all been whining about pretty character portraits; has it ever occured to you, that 3D modelling and animation, have absolutely 0, to do with coding, and lag fixing. With all the Coder's working on fixes for Lag, Sov fixes and improvements, Jump Gates, and the rest; the 3D artists had nothing better to do, so it was either fire them, lay them off, or put them to work on something that didn't require much coding. Bunch of dumbasses.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.23 07:15:00 - [212] Originally by: Cassus Temon ..and by the way, while you've all been whining about pretty character portraits; has it ever occured to you, that 3D modelling and animation, have absolutely 0, to do with coding, and lag fixing. With all the Coder's working on fixes for Lag, Sov fixes and improvements, Jump Gates, and the rest; the 3D artists had nothing better to do, so it was either fire them, lay them off, or put them to work on something that didn't require much coding. Bunch of dumbasses. give them a 'how to fix lag for dummies' book and set them to work pouring through code as well. ..... scratch that, CCP's coders are still waiting for their copies, amirite o/\o Apocrypha ♥
Drewbo	Posted - 2011.03.23 09:32:00 - [213] We don't want any shiny/bullcrap/distracting features until this aspect of the game is fixed!
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.23 10:12:00 - [214] I'am blog you might wanna read Quote: So, that closes the book on this round of optimizations. Took some profiling data from a rather large fight last week, which has given us a few different routes to travel down...more on those as they develop. So you see, thy continiously work on that. However, I guarantee you, the lag will be there as long as the game mechanics stay as they are. And they will stay as they are as long people keep whining about the lag and not about the game mechanics that cause the lag but also make this groups so big and mighty.
Kronos Hopeslayer Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.23 11:17:00 - [215] Ya support checked off now.
Dograzor The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2011.03.23 20:32:00 - [216] Originally by: Vik Reddy CCP, this is not acceptable. This is sickening. We pay real money for this Originally by: Vik Reddy And how do you all reply to that? Standardized messages, inhuman replies. Something has to change Originally by: Vik Reddy CCP, the state of large scale combat is broken. It needs to be fixed now 'Nuff said. CCP get your stuff sorted, or at least have the decency to give a proper reply. - "We don't gank, we just apply force in a disproportionate manner during an uneven tactical combat situation to maximize revenue and increase shareholder value"
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.23 21:03:00 - [217] Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/03/2011 21:05:07 Maybe, just MAYBE you are trying things the game isn't capable of doing, and won't ever be capable of doing. MAYBE the onus is on YOU to fix what your doing to break the game. When you drive too fast, and your car comes off the road, you can't complain to the car company. When you put a water bed on the 2nd floor of your house, and cause structural damage, you can't go after the waterbed company. You are breaking the game, YOU, not CCP. The argument of 'the sov structures have too many hp and need mega blobs' is a total lie, they die all around the game to groups smaller than yours, the battles everywhere but the north are playable, because of what YOU choose to do to the game. Massive battles happen in EVE, 7-800 players deep and the game functions just fine. You are exceeding what the hardware and code can take, and its not on CCP to fix that. If you don't like the conditions your playing in, change them, or quit, its not that hard. Plus if you quit, we all know the lag will drop. You want less lag? Dissolve your coalition.
Avoida	Posted - 2011.03.23 22:13:00 - [218] Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/03/2011 21:05:07 MAYBE the onus is on YOU to fix what your doing to break the game. That would require the NC to actually think about developing a tactic other than cramming as many knuckle dragging mouth breathers as they can find into one system time and time again. I so do enjoy the NC crying like little babies over situations like this for which they are solely responsible for creating. Try something different next time. Idiots.
Cassus Temon	Posted - 2011.03.23 22:45:00 - [219] Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/03/2011 21:05:07 Maybe, just MAYBE you are trying things the game isn't capable of doing, and won't ever be capable of doing. MAYBE the onus is on YOU to fix what your doing to break the game. When you drive too fast, and your car comes off the road, you can't complain to the car company. When you put a water bed on the 2nd floor of your house, and cause structural damage, you can't go after the waterbed company. You are breaking the game, YOU, not CCP. The argument of 'the sov structures have too many hp and need mega blobs' is a total lie, they die all around the game to groups smaller than yours, the battles everywhere but the north are playable, because of what YOU choose to do to the game. Massive battles happen in EVE, 7-800 players deep and the game functions just fine. You are exceeding what the hardware and code can take, and its not on CCP to fix that. If you don't like the conditions your playing in, change them, or quit, its not that hard. Plus if you quit, we all know the lag will drop. You want less lag? Dissolve your coalition. **I like this guy.
Hammerswift Thunder The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.24 00:39:00 - [220] Fix game breaking lag for everyone's sake Fly like your going to die because death comes to us all. tm
Vlade Randal Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.24 05:16:00 - [221] Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/03/2011 21:05:07 Maybe, just MAYBE you are trying things the game isn't capable of doing, and won't ever be capable of doing. MAYBE the onus is on YOU to fix what your doing to break the game. When you drive too fast, and your car comes off the road, you can't complain to the car company. When you put a water bed on the 2nd floor of your house, and cause structural damage, you can't go after the waterbed company. You are breaking the game, YOU, not CCP. The argument of 'the sov structures have too many hp and need mega blobs' is a total lie, they die all around the game to groups smaller than yours, the battles everywhere but the north are playable, because of what YOU choose to do to the game. Massive battles happen in EVE, 7-800 players deep and the game functions just fine. You are exceeding what the hardware and code can take, and its not on CCP to fix that. If you don't like the conditions your playing in, change them, or quit, its not that hard. Plus if you quit, we all know the lag will drop. You want less lag? Dissolve your coalition. Typical PL answer. Anticipated from my initial post. Unfortunately our enemies cram even more into the fight than we do. So if we don't match them, we lose the battle. And also lose sov. This is not an option in 0.0 warfare. Unlike PL, we stay and fight for our territory. Our borders are vast and our enemies are significant in size. It would be a different story if we just attacked smaller alliances that were easy to beat and didn't require our entire force to defeat. Your argument is weak. The growing number of player in eve, means that there is a need for the server to handle the growing number accordingly. Don't come here and crap on about your insignificant small fights that have no lag and blame us because the game doesnt support teams of our size in combat. The fact that small fights don't lag, has nothing to do with the fact that big fights do.
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.24 07:44:00 - [222] Edited by: Grath Telkin on 24/03/2011 07:46:47 Originally by: Vlade Randal . Don't come here and crap on about your insignificant small fights that have no lag and blame us because the game doesnt support teams of our size in combat. The fact that small fights don't lag, has nothing to do with the fact that big fights do. Let me say it again so maybe you'll read it this time: Its not ever going to happen. It doesn't happen in any other game. Its never been possible in this game. The game is seven years old, they haven't made it happen in that time, its not ever going to happen. The servers can't handle it, the code can't handle it and the only thing CCP is going to do for the remainder of this game is bolt on extra parts to entice new fresh subscriptions to play so that the old jaded players who quit can be replaced. I mean, are you actually silly enough to believe that after seven years CCP is going to up and re write the base code of the game to do away with the bad communication between the client and the cluster, and that they are somehow going to drop several million dollars to overhaul all of the servers for an aging game? You basically have 3 choices: 1)Go find a game that can support the type of game play you want. 2)Find a way to play within the means of the code of this game. 3)Keep staring at black screens. EDIT: Its simple really, CCP is determined to let you do whatever in your sand box, but they have flat out told you that "when you have huge fleet battles, we're not responsible for what goes wrong". It can't get any simpler than that. They are outright telling you the game can't handle what your doing, and that they won't be responsible for fixing any weird things that are a result of you over taxing the system. To me, that also says that the system isn't going to be changed any time soon.
Vlade Randal Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.24 10:41:00 - [223] Nice troll. Back to the point. A CCP response to improve the issue of lag and bugs in large fleet battles is much needed, and would be much appreciated by many players. Responses from PL members laughable, but not much appreciated, thankyou :)
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.24 10:51:00 - [224] Here is the solution: Every entity in game set everybody but NC on its blue list. The new coalition destroys the NC and breaks it apart. Afterward, the bues tanding will be resetet. And the lag will be gone... P.S: It might be necessary to do the same with DRF afterwards...
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.24 19:58:00 - [225] Originally by: Vlade Randal Nice troll. Back to the point. A CCP response to improve the issue of lag and bugs in large fleet battles is much needed, and would be much appreciated by many players. Responses from PL members laughable, but not much appreciated, thankyou :) What about my post is a troll? I have been 100% completely honest with you. CCP will not and can not flat out tell you this because its a business, they aren't your friends, they are a company, who needs to generate business for the remainder of this project. I challenge you to point out anything you consider a troll in my statement, because its nothing but the truth that you refuse to acknowledge.
Ione Skye	Posted - 2011.03.25 00:11:00 - [226] Originally by: Grath Telkin up Thanks to GK for giving this thread the attention, it needs, and a thumbs up from me, too. Some things are not right and never were: - ppl get killed hours after their 15 min aggression timer is gone while logged off, but the logs show nothing. This is not a rare bug. It happens pretty often. - on very rare occasions even pvp petitions got a positive answer in the past, if a GM in good mood took his time to investigate: ship back, then I asked: and what is with the clone upgrade and the implants? You just acknowledge something went wrong on server side. GM: we do not reimburse this. the list could be continued This is bad costomer support. Everybody knows this. Nobody cares, what you write in your Reimbursement policy or petition answers, if it is nonsense and lame excuses.
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.25 00:42:00 - [227] Originally by: Ione Skye Originally by: Grath Telkin up Thanks to GK for giving this thread the attention, it needs, and a thumbs up from me, too. Some things are not right and never were: - ppl get killed hours after their 15 min aggression timer is gone while logged off, but the logs show nothing. This is not a rare bug. It happens pretty often. - on very rare occasions even pvp petitions got a positive answer in the past, if a GM in good mood took his time to investigate: ship back, then I asked: and what is with the clone upgrade and the implants? You just acknowledge something went wrong on server side. GM: we do not reimburse this. the list could be continued This is bad costomer support. Everybody knows this. Nobody cares, what you write in your Reimbursement policy or petition answers, if it is nonsense and lame excuses. CCP please reimburse my ship that I have lost because of lag even though I had a disconnect or logged. Yes I knew that jumping in a system with 2000 players can cause such mailfunctions and that you don't reimburse such losses but you say in ads that such fights are possible so they should be lag free and my loss reimbursed. CCP please reimburse my ship becaue I've lost it in a gate camp even though I had warp stabs fitted. Yes I knew this could happen, but the description of the module says that it prevents others from warp scrambling you. Raise if your see any similarities...
luvmehard	Posted - 2011.03.25 11:56:00 - [228] Maybe no one asked them this before: CCP, is the lag even fixable? Or are you running scared around the office trying to figure out something before the eggers realize it isn't?
LordElfa Gallente Tri Corp	Posted - 2011.03.25 14:44:00 - [229] No, the lag is not fixable for the situation. 1000+ players on a node and the calls made back to the server are just too damn much, especially when augmented with drone and missile calls. It cannot be fixed, will not be fixed and complaining will only waste your own time. The PL guy is right. Change your tactics to fit the situation if you can't get the situation to fit your tactics. The driving analogy is correct. You can't petition the state to straiten out a curvy road because you want to drive faster. The road is going to stay curvy so if you don't want to fly off the road and crash, slow the **** down. ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2011.03.25 14:57:00 - [230] Originally by: LordElfa No, the lag is not fixable for the situation. 1000+ players on a node and the calls made back to the server are just too damn much, especially when augmented with drone and missile calls. It cannot be fixed, will not be fixed and complaining will only waste your own time. The PL guy is right. Change your tactics to fit the situation if you can't get the situation to fit your tactics. The driving analogy is correct. You can't petition the state to straiten out a curvy road because you want to drive faster. The road is going to stay curvy so if you don't want to fly off the road and crash, slow the **** down. You sir, are a wise man!
Nodaya	Posted - 2011.03.25 18:15:00 - [231] +1 Completely unacceptable. Fix it or make the game free to play.
Zemkhoff	Posted - 2011.03.25 20:47:00 - [232] Edited by: Zemkhoff on 25/03/2011 20:48:09 Originally by: Vlade Randal Typical PL answer. Anticipated from my initial post. Unfortunately our enemies cram even more into the fight than we do. So if we don't match them, we lose the battle. And also lose sov. This is not an option in 0.0 warfare. Unlike PL, we stay and fight for our territory. Our borders are vast and our enemies are significant in size. heh. I thought only the likes of fcon and own alliance bragged about holding sov amidst a blue list of 20 alliances. I suppose it's contagious.
LordElfa Gallente Tri Corp	Posted - 2011.03.26 01:50:00 - [233] Edited by: LordElfa on 26/03/2011 01:51:46 As I recently stated in another thread, perhaps what they need to do is give a discouragement to having too many players on the field. To fit this into the driving analogy, if you can't start slowing down the asshats driving on your curvy road, start adding road bumps to make them slow down or ruin their driving experience. Make it so that once a certain amount of players are on the field, certain system wide effects begin to occur such as lowering of DPS. So say, every 100 players above 500, you take away 10% of DPS from all vessels. Its not a game breaker and it doesn't keep blobs from occurring but it does make it so that too large of numbers can become detrimental to the fight above and beyond just simple lag. ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
Tad Ghostall	Posted - 2011.03.26 08:52:00 - [234] BUMP! Increasing the amount of players that can be functional in a system at the same time should be of highest priority!
Flinx Evenstar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 01:40:00 - [235] Originally by: Tad Ghostall BUMP! Increasing the amount of players that can be functional in a system at the same time should be of highest priority! When did you sell your character Vlade, this doesn't sound like you at all buddy. If you don't like looking at black screens, try something else, it's not a secret that 2000 people in the same system causes lag. What happened to you dude, don't you remember those nice little dog fights with 10 in gang? --- I does like have spaceship vids n stuff
Vlade Randal Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.27 13:07:00 - [236] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar What happened to you dude, don't you remember those nice little dog fights with 10 in gang? I have to be versatile in my position. I still run 10 - 20 man gangs all the time, but at the moment we are contesting space with a larger number of pilots. I'm simply raising the issue that there is a need for "more power" from the server. Someone suggested not sending so many pilots. In any battle, you need to send an amount of troops that is relative to what the enemy has. You all speak like its a ridiculous suggestion, however CCP has raised the amount of players a system can hold and manage several times in the past. So it's quite logical that this number would increase further. I'm simply saying, now is a good time :) And, if you think otherwise... i think you are lucky that you don't have to experience such lag and bugs.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.27 13:20:00 - [237] The PL guy is most likely right that it will never happen, less lag = we put more people in system (although multicore support might help). However blaming us for it is easy, but the actual problem is with CCPs mechanics. Sure we can put 300 people in a system, then we got DRF owning our space within a month. We have no choice for sov warfare besides cramming as many people as possible on a grid.
death klokk	Posted - 2011.03.29 08:22:00 - [238] supported. what i find funny is the fact that some of these trolls actually suggest, "if you don't like the lag then quit. Less lag for us." Which makes absolutely no sense because CCP <3s $$ and if 2k, or 5k or 10k people just all stop resubbing what do you think will happen? Either A. It will get their attention and voila the lag magically is fixed in a short amount of time. or B. They say "meh" and shrug it off compensating for loss of funds by firing people resulting in less devs and GMs which means even crappier customer service and slower & less updates/patches for the game. Telling people they should quit is extremely counterproductive, but whatever. I used to want to fly a titan.. now i just spend billions overpimping t1 frigates because i'll actually be able to use it. Here's an idea: How about when a system reaches a certain amount of pilots. The game then goes to like a 2D mode or hell even, a text based game. Thats what this game is anyway, right? Spreadsheet online. I'm fairly certain in the end the only thing that matters is being able to defend the system or overtake it when the numbers get that high. Graphics seem to not be too relevant anymore considering players prep for the lag by lowering the graphics settings to lowest possible anyway, and would lower it even more to basic outlines of their ships if they had to; Even if it meant it looked like the game was being played in MSPaint. idk, just saying.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.29 08:35:00 - [239] Graphics lag is not an issue, the issue is server lag. (Not to mention CCP managed to make brackets, 2D, the most heavy part for your computer).
socialhavoc	Posted - 2011.03.29 19:05:00 - [240] I think ultimately ccp is going to have to cap system allowances. No matter how much they don't want to its the only obvious choice unless either theres some sort of revolution in the eve server side administration (and on a technical side i dont think theyll ever catch up to the amount of stress the player base can muster) or some one figures out a way to incentive not blobbing. Ultimately I would see that a cap is set to what would produce acceptable and manageable amounts of lag. Say alliance with sov gets 55-60%(defenders advantage, perhaps starts at 50 and is upgradeable to a pre ordained level) of max system capacity and the rest is for the attack side, to prevent gaming of the system by filling with 3rd party players the fleet battle notification gets server priority to the sov and listed attacking alliance letting everyone else lag out if needed. If you can field more than the servers allow you can swap out people now that you know you can actually move instead of lagging or you can form a second group to find another system to contest to try to split the defenders and lessen the defenders advantage.

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