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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 04/04/2011 17:45:35
Time for some investigative journalism.
For those of you curious about how the new CCP "slow burn" effect is having on Eve's bot population, I have taken the liberty to check it out and looked into these macros. I am offering this service solely for informational purposes only. I am in no way advertising or supporting these macro companies, nor am I backing CCP. This is solely for you the reader to be as up-to-date as possible in this conflict.
For the sake of the rules, I cannot disclose specifically where I got this information. I can tell you that I have joined several forums from several different macro websites. And I'm looking for one thing, the "I've been banned" thread. I want to see if what CCP is doing is having any kind of impact on the Eve market, and the Bot market.
Right now, I have found 2 prominate websites that have top search engine rankings (therefore high sales) that I beleive many bot users are using. Each of these websites have several thousand people registured in their forums. I will refer to them as "Website A" and "website B"
Again, for the fear of getting this thread locked, I cannot link these websites. You're gonna have to take my word on this.
I am going to post quotes that I have found on these websites. we'll start with "Website A". These posts started trickeling in only days after the fanfest video was released.
"Got 14-day bans on 3 accounts.. "Banned for macro usage". I didn't even use bot with one of the banned accounts. I wasn't eveen using a mining bot, I was using a tradebot with 2 accounts however. I wonder how they detect this "macro usage". And yeah I've read people getting 3-day bans, and I got 14 (first bans ever). 14 days is quite long time, not sure if I'll be back to the game.. And no, you can't have my stuff "
"Well, I've been banned today for the first time after long long while.
I became too careless I guess, I admit it.
Anyways, I'm interested in your opinions. Is it worth to use the same toons for micro mining again, or get new ones? What is your experience on this??"
"Several of bot users reported that they were banned for using macro in 1-2 day intervals. It looks like CCP started banhammer. I think it is good idea to wait while this event ends"
"I took a break from mining for several days after the security presentation during fanfest. I mined the "normal" way for several hours each day, did PI, and acted like a normal player. I tested by mining for 3 hours one night, during my normal play window. I got a 14 day ban the next day. I would be careful guys, the point of doing a "slow boil" is to fine tune the detection methods they're using to minimize the false positives. My expectation is as they fine tune the process, they will become more aggressive in banning accounts. In the meantime, it's been fun, but I've got enough of a bankroll to make isk on trading and industry. I'll stop while I'm ahead."
This one was posted by the FORUM OWNER and coder of said macro
"We should delete topics related to banhammers from forums. This is for your safety, guys. It is a war and we should not show how effective CCP can be. I will delete all topics related to bans after I release new version."
I should note, that In response to the bannings I found several threads with posts like this:
"What the hell is fun in circeling around some rocks and, now and than, fight some idiotic pixels, from which you get stupid ****, not even worth selling...For the Eve guys who read in this forums Please ban my account for botting! It would give me back some time to do useful things."
"Mining is stupid and boring, macro miners exists because CCP built a flawed game. **** it, if they want to ban the only REAL thing that's keeping the game going, I'm just gonna delete my **** and move on."
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 04/04/2011 17:44:39
Onward to "Website B"
"Website B" had fewer posts about banning. It could be an indication that CCP hasn't yet caught up with this particular macro miner program. I did some digging and only found 1 releated thread:
FOrum Owner posts this on Jan 27th
"Nothing's gonna happen, so just relax."
four weeks later, and next 5 replys on that thread sound something like this:
"One of mine just copped a 14 day ban for "Macro use"
Been mining 14/7 with random breaks for 6 months and then POW... banned"
My Fellow Eve players, bare in mind that I was only able to find these threads. Out of thousands of accounts, only these existed.
I'll endevor to keep you all informed of anything new that I find.
For the sake of reporting everything, I did find some responses that delt with evading the ban detection. They suggested only using the macro a few hours a day, chaning the code to make it look more humna/randome. Some even had 'automated responces' when convo'd. One guy even claimed he has 4 accounts he switches betten and mines 3 hours each on. I was unable to find any posts where he got banned.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:44:00 -
[3]
reserved
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 04/04/2011 17:47:06
Why only 14 days? Get rid of them. Permanently.
Wipe them out. All of them.
I'm not an alt  |
NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:51:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jon Taggart
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 04/04/2011 17:47:06
Why only 14 days? Get rid of them. Permanently.
Wipe them out. All of them.
Remember the security meeting stated that there will be a 3-strike you're out deal. 1st strike is 14 days. 2nd is a month, 3rd is perma.
I beleive this is fare. There are some bot users that where only using it for a cheap buck that will probably stop and still want to play eve.
They cheated, they got "apanked by the parents", they stopped. Sounds fare to me!
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Lucia Sarain
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:55:00 -
[6]
Problem is a lot of the banned accounts get recycled through the Character Bazaar from what i've read on botter forums.
CCP need to start monitoring character transfers for recent bans.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2011.04.04 17:57:00 -
[7]
Great post Ninja.
Threads about bans on bot forums probably aren't good for business, so I expect they get squashed rather quickly (I'm guessing the bot writer has written a bot to ban the ban threads  ).
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:02:00 -
[8]
Especially like the BS from that one site owner, about how removing people talking about getting banned for using his program is somehow protecting them. He just wants suckers to keep buying his program, even if they are getting banned.
If it was my decision, i'd go for one strike being thinking about botting, the second strike putting a botting program on your computer, and the 3rd strike being using it.
3 strikes for using one just allows the makers to better fine tune ways to avoid detection, but we'll have to wait and see how bulletproof the detection is.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lucia Sarain
Problem is a lot of the banned accounts get recycled through the Character Bazaar from what i've read on botter forums.
CCP need to start monitoring character transfers for recent bans.
I'm not sure I understand this.
Person gets caught botting and gets 14-day ban.
Sells char after ban expires (I assume impossible to sell while banned).
New owner...what? Bots again and complains about a 30-day ban?
AFAIK, there is no outward indication that a char was ever banned...no scarlet "B" on your avatar or anything (though...that DOES sound like a good idea)
I think the ban is applied to the account, not the char...so the banning history as far as CCP is concerned is non-transferable.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:05:00 -
[10]
It does raise an important point though. If activities like Mining were more dynamic, interactive, and engaging, would it make it unbottable? Also, if the activity was fun and enjoyable, would people bot in the first place?
I'm sure some still will. Plenty of lazy types out there.
I'm not an alt |
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:12:00 -
[11]
I agree, I have posted a few topics about making mining funner. And I really think it needs an overhaul.
However, the players have pushed for the ban hammer vs bots. I have no doubt that if mining gets to horrible, they will push for a 'revamp mining' approach and CCP will respond.
I'm impressed with the amount of power the players have here. +1 to the anarachy republic of Eve.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lucia Sarain
Problem is a lot of the banned accounts get recycled through the Character Bazaar from what i've read on botter forums.
CCP need to start monitoring character transfers for recent bans.
Well, that's a solid point and a good question to be answered.
Does anyone here know how the selling-a-char thing works? Can we maybe have a dev/forum mod comment on this? Where's Akita T when you need him, I bet he'd know. I'd assume that the ban would be account related, not charachter releated.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:17:00 -
[13]
Great post Ninja...happy to see CCP's recent efforts are indeed having an impact. I for one support a "1 warning and you're permabanned" policy.
~Gnosis~ |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:22:00 -
[14]
I'm happy with the 3 then permaban personally.
I browse various bot forums and /petition the idiots posting screenshots when asking for help with their bots and don't take their character names out of the screenshots.
Maybe I should take another tour here and read some tasty tears.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Jack Gilligan
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lucia Sarain
Problem is a lot of the banned accounts get recycled through the Character Bazaar from what i've read on botter forums.
CCP need to start monitoring character transfers for recent bans.
This needs to be done for sure. Because it would be unfair to saddle the buyer of a character with the TOS violations of the previous owner.
Or what CCP could do is permaban character transfers from accounts with a record for bans for botting.
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Jireel
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: NinjaSpud
I agree, I have posted a few topics about making mining funner. And I really think it needs an overhaul.
However, the players have pushed for the ban hammer vs bots. I have no doubt that if mining gets to horrible, they will push for a 'revamp mining' approach and CCP will respond.
I'm impressed with the amount of power the players have here. +1 to the anarachy republic of Eve.
Actually... I like mining how it is, because it allows me to do something else, like reading a book / working / playing another game while still making money. I know I could go for other types of passive income, but still, I kinda like it.
Oh, and before someone says i'm macroing, I doubt I could do that in wormhole space asteroid belts.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
This needs to be done for sure. Because it would be unfair to saddle the buyer of a character with the TOS violations of the previous owner.
Again, I have to ask: what is the new owner being "saddled" with?
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Kristina Vanszar
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jireel
Originally by: NinjaSpud
I agree, I have posted a few topics about making mining funner. And I really think it needs an overhaul.
However, the players have pushed for the ban hammer vs bots. I have no doubt that if mining gets to horrible, they will push for a 'revamp mining' approach and CCP will respond.
I'm impressed with the amount of power the players have here. +1 to the anarachy republic of Eve.
Actually... I like mining how it is, because it allows me to do something else, like reading a book / working / playing another game while still making money. I know I could go for other types of passive income, but still, I kinda like it.
Oh, and before someone says i'm macroing, I doubt I could do that in wormhole space asteroid belts.
Have you been on fanfest at the CCP Pannel? :-D
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Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:32:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 04/04/2011 18:33:52
About selling banned chars and buying new from char bazaar and putting it on new acc... well... i would like to see some things like...
-> no selling chars from banned account for 6 months after first ban... 2 years after second...
...or...
-> first ban - (minus) 2B in wallet... second ban -10B in wallet...
_______________________________________________
"Everybody's at war with different things... I'm at war with my own heart sometimes" (by 2Pac) |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jireel
Originally by: NinjaSpud
I agree, I have posted a few topics about making mining funner. And I really think it needs an overhaul.
However, the players have pushed for the ban hammer vs bots. I have no doubt that if mining gets to horrible, they will push for a 'revamp mining' approach and CCP will respond.
I'm impressed with the amount of power the players have here. +1 to the anarachy republic of Eve.
Actually... I like mining how it is, because it allows me to do something else, like reading a book / working / playing another game while still making money. I know I could go for other types of passive income, but still, I kinda like it.
Oh, and before someone says i'm macroing, I doubt I could do that in wormhole space asteroid belts.
Gameplay that allows "hands off" progression is what promotes botting in the first place. It's one of the most glaring issues with "progress bar" gameplay, and MMOs love it for some reason.
I'm not an alt |
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Jireel
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kristina Vanszar
Originally by: Jireel
Originally by: NinjaSpud
I agree, I have posted a few topics about making mining funner. And I really think it needs an overhaul.
However, the players have pushed for the ban hammer vs bots. I have no doubt that if mining gets to horrible, they will push for a 'revamp mining' approach and CCP will respond.
I'm impressed with the amount of power the players have here. +1 to the anarachy republic of Eve.
Actually... I like mining how it is, because it allows me to do something else, like reading a book / working / playing another game while still making money. I know I could go for other types of passive income, but still, I kinda like it.
Oh, and before someone says i'm macroing, I doubt I could do that in wormhole space asteroid belts.
Have you been on fanfest at the CCP Pannel? :-D
Considering the plane ticket is over 1k$, nope
And yes I know it promotes botting and macroing... if it takes the removal of that type of gameplay to get rid of the bots, I could deal with it. But still, I like it as it is now.
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Sryan
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Posted - 2011.04.04 19:33:00 -
[22]
you people should realise they do not sell their characters nice and fairly through the character bazaar, but their entire accounts via their networks, even if they get perma banned, A hulk ready acount will only set you back $40 for a new hulk/bot ready acount. This means illegal ISK/PLEX sellers only need to sell about 1,5 billion ISK/ 4 PLEX to even out their loss for the ban per account.
besides, CCP sees these ISK sellers and PLEX sellers as the real enemy, they damage the ISK and PLEX economies because they make those worth less.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.04 20:20:00 -
[23]
I enjoy seeing statements like this...
Quote:
if they want to ban the only REAL thing that's keeping the game going, I'm just gonna delete my **** and move on."
It's interesting how people mentally justify the things that they do. They ignore the fact that if bots disappeared overnight the economy would improve drastically for all players.
Glutting the market with cheap minerals does not equal helping the economy or players. The only person it helps is yourself.
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The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Shrator
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Posted - 2011.04.04 20:28:00 -
[24]
Totally awesome. Thanks for the updates ninja!
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Soma Khan
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.04 20:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I enjoy seeing statements like this...
Quote:
if they want to ban the only REAL thing that's keeping the game going, I'm just gonna delete my **** and move on."
It's interesting how people mentally justify the things that they do. They ignore the fact that if bots disappeared overnight the economy would improve drastically for all players.
Glutting the market with cheap minerals does not equal helping the economy or players. The only person it helps is yourself.
glutting the market with enormous amounts of isk from macroing bounty rats is infinitely worse for eve economy. that macro miner (?) is being a pompous ass
__
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.04 20:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Ranger 1
I enjoy seeing statements like this...
Quote:
if they want to ban the only REAL thing that's keeping the game going, I'm just gonna delete my **** and move on."
It's interesting how people mentally justify the things that they do. They ignore the fact that if bots disappeared overnight the economy would improve drastically for all players.
Glutting the market with cheap minerals does not equal helping the economy or players. The only person it helps is yourself.
glutting the market with enormous amounts of isk from macroing bounty rats is infinitely worse for eve economy. that macro miner (?) is being a pompous ass
Agreed on all counts.
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The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Elanor Vega
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Posted - 2011.04.04 20:55:00 -
[27]
I am concerned about this:
Originally by: NinjaSpud
Onward to "Website B"
"Website B" had fewer posts about banning. It could be an indication that CCP hasn't yet caught up with this particular macro miner program. Or they are good on maintenance and don't wanna spread panic...fortunitaly I excell at spreading panic  I did some digging and only found 1 releated thread:
FOrum Owner posts this on Jan 27th
"Nothing's gonna happen, so just relax."
four weeks later, and next 5 replys on that thread sound something like this:
"One of mine just copped a 14 day ban for "Macro use"
Been mining 14/7 with random breaks for 6 months and then POW... banned"
 My Fellow Eve players, bare in mind that I was only able to find these threads. Out of thousands of accounts, only these existed.
I'll endevor to keep you all informed of anything new that I find.
For the sake of reporting everything, I did find some responses that delt with evading the ban detection. They suggested only using the macro a few hours a day, chaning the code to make it look more humna/randome. Some even had 'automated responces' when convo'd. One guy even claimed he has 4 accounts he switches betten and mines 3 hours each on. I was unable to find any posts where he got banned.
I am concerned that thats true... that only fiew accounts of fiew thousands is banned...
and i am afraid that all will remain on that...
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F'elch
Wall Street Trading
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Posted - 2011.04.04 21:24:00 -
[28]
Great post.
How about, the first time you are caught you get a 14 day ban and the isk on all characters on all accounts reduced to 0?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.04.04 21:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: F'elch
Great post.
How about, the first time you are caught you get a 14 day ban and the isk on all characters on all accounts reduced to 0?
I think the idea is to tell the player to not bot anymore, not make them quit immediately.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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F'elch
Wall Street Trading
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Posted - 2011.04.04 21:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: F'elch
Great post.
How about, the first time you are caught you get a 14 day ban and the isk on all characters on all accounts reduced to 0?
I think the idea is to tell the player to not bot anymore, not make them quit immediately.
It's not like being in negative balance. And I'm sure these people will have assets they can sell. I'm also sure that doing this would only be removing a small percentage of the isk they have gained unfairly.
But botters don't pay my wages, so I don't care if they do quit.
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