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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Trader Forrest Parvi	Posted - 2011.04.07 03:23:00 - [1] Just took my Raven through Gurista's Extravaganza, and boy do I notice a difference in the jamming. The second spawn in the last required room (before the bonus) was so bad that I was unable to keep a lock long enough to sick my drones on the sabateours. The spawn consists of 3 jamming battleships and 4 jamming frigates, and with normal Raven sensor strength I'd have to say it is next to impossible to kill these guys solo now. I fit a backup array and it seems to have help a bit, but I'm still getting jammed now more than ever. Anyone else experiencing this?
Relikio	Posted - 2011.04.07 10:28:00 - [2] Edited by: Relikio on 07/04/2011 10:29:14 Trouble in a Raven? Try using a marauder, it's impossible. Finally the missions got harder(at least the gurista ones). I welcome this change, believe it or not. Now, what about the rest of them?
Bantros Noir.	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:09:00 - [3] Just as bad in the in The Assault, had to use an ECCM and was still getting jammed a lot. It doesn't even make the mission harder, just takes longer because you can't actually do anything. Annoying indeed
Mavnas	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:25:00 - [4] And this is why I don't run missions against the Guristas.
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Turelus on 07/04/2011 13:10:00 Noticed this last night with my alt's Loki. I was just running highsec anoms to pass time and spent a good four minuets jammed. I guess every mission ship will be needing ECCM now.
Holdout	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Relikio Edited by: Relikio on 07/04/2011 10:29:14 Trouble in a Raven? Try using a marauder, it's impossible. Finally the missions got harder(at least the gurista ones). I welcome this change, believe it or not. Now, what about the rest of them? Never being able to hold a lock for more than 1-2 seconds doesn't make the mission harder, it makes it unbearably annoying.
Nerana Saldana	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:15:00 - [7] Raven? Have you tried the FOF missiles?
Kerowyn's	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Kerowyn''s on 07/04/2011 13:16:50 or drones or gasp, both ?
Donkytron	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:29:00 - [9] if you're in a raven, just fit FOF's golem pilots are screwed but you can always use a NM instead. Just one more way pirate bs's are better than t2's that take 10x the training time to fly
Drelond Darez	Posted - 2011.04.07 15:19:00 - [10] Started the assault last night, perma-jammed, so bailed out, sold my Paladin now and bought a nightmare. Hope its better!
Linda Shadowborn Gallente Dark Steel Industries	Posted - 2011.04.07 15:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Drelond Darez Started the assault last night, perma-jammed, so bailed out, sold my Paladin now and bought a nightmare. Hope its better! Good luck, i gave up on a tengu with what 68 sensor strength (dissolution sub and ECCM). Domi cleared it fine though. :)
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2011.04.09 23:50:00 - [12] Have run The Assault three times since the change. Jammed once first time, once last time, twice the second. Tengu with dissolution sequencer and two ECCMs, 115.1 sensor strength. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
ViceAdmiral Callahan Caldari Boogie Monsters	Posted - 2011.04.11 02:08:00 - [13] So how much are those tengu's again these days? Even the belt rats are unbearable. 3bs with 3 frigs and a 37 point sensor strength and I was perma-jamed with out end.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.04.11 02:37:00 - [14] Hmmm .. chruker's site is showing Pith Eliminator with 5 Grav jam str (Database: Incursion 1.4 (246350)). Data from the logserver I took on the 8th (a few days back) show Pith Eliminator as having 3 Grav jam str. This is getting curiouser. /me goes to find a new Pith Eliminator.
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2011.04.11 04:25:00 - [15] Originally by: ViceAdmiral Callahan So how much are those tengu's again these days? Even the belt rats are unbearable. 3bs with 3 frigs and a 37 point sensor strength and I was perma-jamed with out end. Haven't priced one recently, but probably ~500 million for the hull and five subsystems you need. Fittings are up to you; ECCM is cheap but the other stuff may not be. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
Tasler Wenstron Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.04.11 06:48:00 - [16] Just did The Assault last night in my Tengu whit 35 sensor strength and I got jammed 19 times, normally I would only get jammed 3-6 times in this mission, it was horrible annoying. So yea they're secretly buffing rats
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2011.04.11 15:48:00 - [17] NPC-EWAR is based on entirely different mechanics than Player-EWAR, it is entirely chancebased (chance per cycle) without regards to sensor/jamming-strength. ECCM therefore does not help at all. Unless they chanced the mechanics sometime during the last few months.
Nathan Wynn	Posted - 2011.04.11 15:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Trader Forrest Parvi Just took my Raven through Gurista's Extravaganza, and boy do I notice a difference in the jamming. The second spawn in the last required room (before the bonus) was so bad that I was unable to keep a lock long enough to sick my drones on the sabateours. The spawn consists of 3 jamming battleships and 4 jamming frigates, and with normal Raven sensor strength I'd have to say it is next to impossible to kill these guys solo now. I fit a backup array and it seems to have help a bit, but I'm still getting jammed now more than ever. Anyone else experiencing this? I ran it just fine last night, though I suppose using a Gila and launching sentries helps. Although I did notice an increase in the amount of time being jammed.
Nuneval	Posted - 2011.04.11 16:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Talsha Talamar NPC-EWAR is based on entirely different mechanics than Player-EWAR, it is entirely chancebased (chance per cycle) without regards to sensor/jamming-strength. ECCM therefore does not help at all. Unless they chanced the mechanics sometime during the last few months. The entire point of this thread is that people are getting jammed more after Incursion 1.4 due to the change in NPC jamming mechanics, and that the efficacy of ECCMs on anything but a Tengu is pitiful.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.11 16:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Talsha Talamar NPC-EWAR is based on entirely different mechanics than Player-EWAR, it is entirely chancebased (chance per cycle) without regards to sensor/jamming-strength. ECCM therefore does not help at all. Incorrect. It was empirically proven that NPC jamming was affected by sensor strength. link to thread Post patch, we really need someone to repeat Sturmwolke's experiment and to see what the LogServer reveals about NPC jamming. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"

CCP Big Dumb Object	Posted - 2011.04.11 17:09:00 - [21] We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience.

Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.11 17:38:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers. If it's broken it shouldn't get on TQ. ------
Cyberus Caldari Final Destination.	Posted - 2011.04.11 17:53:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Tbh i was hopping for respond like that. ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use one that will display - Fallout
namelessclone01 Caldari blackbox ops	Posted - 2011.04.11 18:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Talsha Talamar NPC-EWAR is based on entirely different mechanics than Player-EWAR, it is entirely chancebased (chance per cycle) without regards to sensor/jamming-strength. ECCM therefore does not help at all. Unless they chanced the mechanics sometime during the last few months. Reading patch notes and also actually trying ECCM (both before and after the latest patch) might have saved you from embarrassment of spouting clueless statements.. Nothing personal. On topic: Just out of curiousity, I ran a GE after patch 1.4 in a Golem with 1 lowslot ECCM mod. 5th pocket took me 30 minutes, which is utterly ridiculous by any standards. Was being jammed for the first 10-15 minutes non-stop until i decided that enough is enough and put drones on aggressive to at least try and clear the jamming frigs. Naturally they were more happy to shoot triggers than the jamming frigs. Ended up having to tank 3 full spawns. I can only imagine the pain in the Assault.. tl;dr: Half of all Guristas missions are totally not worth doing in marauders since after the patch. This needs to be fixed.
Lord Kreza	Posted - 2011.04.11 21:24:00 - [25] Just tried to do the The Assault with a CNR & Vargur, complete waste of time. Perma-jammed, please CCP fix this! /carebear tears
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.04.11 22:11:00 - [26] CCP Big Dumb Object: any chance the patch to remedy this mistake might make it to Sisi for a weekend before being unleashed upon the unsuspecting hordes on Tranquility? -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
ChiShen Infinity Research	Posted - 2011.04.12 00:32:00 - [27] Lol i just did a guristas mission with a golem +nighthawk. Both got jammed so i switched to fof. I assisted the nighthawk with drones and for some reason the drones attacked eahc other and both ships were shooting each other with fof. It was pretty funny killing my own drones while i was jammed.
Kuzzka	Posted - 2011.04.12 00:51:00 - [28] This change only waste players time. Mission i did before for 1 hour, takes now 2 just because of this stupid useless jamming ****.
Halokus Tendari	Posted - 2011.04.12 09:48:00 - [29] Confirming that this is a huge problem, even in L1 missions cough.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.12 09:58:00 - [30] take friends in with scorpions
Tiziana Zilpah	Posted - 2011.04.12 15:56:00 - [31] Really, the sentry-rigged Sentry-Ishtar makes this an enjoyable 40 minutes you can do something else
bartos100	Posted - 2011.04.12 16:09:00 - [32] i don't run missions as i live in 0.0 but for killing gutistas a sentry domi with t2 sentry's is the way to go :D they can jam my ship to hell and back my drones will kill them all :)
Ginguss Zaxx	Posted - 2011.04.12 17:42:00 - [33] Yep confirming that jamming seems to have been made worse with the tweaks... Did you put an extra zero in when you edited the data... Sure seems like it :( Just did Provisional Guristas Outpost, and was jammed in a cruiser 90% of the time, normally this takes me 5 mins to get in blow the tower and the Dread Guristas spawn, took over 20 minutes this time. I dread to think what it will be like on the final stage of the escalation as that has some insane jamming normally...
Buzz Hulbreech	Posted - 2011.04.12 22:11:00 - [34] Edited by: Buzz Hulbreech on 12/04/2011 22:15:29 Just finished training up a new drakeboy after being disgusted with my domies Lvl4 capabilities after running missions with drake using buddies, how ironic the first level 4 he does on his own, hes suddenly getting jammed to oblivion...been playing 4 years, live in PB, I know Girlistas can jam, but this new stuff is crazy! Something has definately changed, and to the slide-rule datalovers, you don't need a thermometer to tell you your house is on fire. Now the Gallente redhead stepchild finally has something it might possibly excell at. BRB, setting sentries to aggressive.
Illectroculus Defined Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2011.04.12 22:56:00 - [35] Personally I've not been having any trouble running missions like The Assault. but then again, I like flying drone boats. Spaceships!
Tye Septor	Posted - 2011.04.12 23:26:00 - [36] While I don't mind if it were more challenging, this is just tedious and annoying to the point of ruining the fun of the game. Fair note, so far none of the jam-fest missions I've seen since 1.4 have been a threat to my ship as I'm tanked well enough. I also thought the old "jam once" rule was pretty lame as I could easily work around it, but now jamming forever seems even worse. I really suspect the same as someone else noticed, there's an extra 0 in there somewhere. With renewable jamming, most missions need to have the ewar rats reduced in number. 4-5 per room should be max, not 5+ per wave. My main concern is the fact that it seems many level 1s are horrifying now for new players. Frustrating the noobs isn't a good idea if we want to see eve not dwindle off.
grumpyguts1	Posted - 2011.04.13 00:19:00 - [37] I carry a load of FOF missiles in my Tengu and when I get a mission with lots of jamming, I just sit back and enjoy the show.. does however kill blitzing.. but maybe that is what CCP wants.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.13 00:47:00 - [38] New bug? NPC guns can't hit the broadside of a barn? I have four Pith Eliminators pounding on my CNR in order to get some jamming numbers with the LogServer running. I just noticed that none of them them is hitting me with their guns. I'm stationary in a big fat CNR, they're orbiting at 28km, and yet they still cannot hit me with guns. Pith Eliminator stats The cruise missiles hit, but the guns keep missing. Anyone else noticing anything similar? [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Marishma	Posted - 2011.04.13 02:20:00 - [39] Originally by: stoicfaux New bug? NPC guns can't hit the broadside of a barn? I have four Pith Eliminators pounding on my CNR in order to get some jamming numbers with the LogServer running. I just noticed that none of them them is hitting me with their guns. I'm stationary in a big fat CNR, they're orbiting at 28km, and yet they still cannot hit me with guns. Pith Eliminator stats The cruise missiles hit, but the guns keep missing. Anyone else noticing anything similar? [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:34 ] (combat) Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to Guristas Pirates hits you, doing 49.2 damage. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:35 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. [ 2011.04.13 00:43:38 ] (combat) Pith Eliminator misses you completely. I will try and get some log output, I neglected to do so last night when I was running missions, but I have also noticed the same thing, the rats couldn't hit my ship at all. Although I have recently change ship so I thought it was that fact rather then any possible game issue(s), till reading your comments.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.13 05:32:00 - [40] Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/04/2011 05:33:01 Initial results of NPC jamming test. I ran the LogServer for an hour against four Pith Eliminators in a CNR in the first room of The Assault. The jamming chances looked accurate. However, the Pith Eliminator sensor values have all changed to 3.0. More on this later. I determined time spent jammed by counting the time between instances of 45122011.04.13 03:31:57:800Attribute maxLockedTargets of module 1506961454 changed from 7.0 to 0.0 value I had was 7.0 in the LogServer output. maxLockedTargets is printed when an EW cycle occurs. EW success formula is npc_sensor_strength / player_sensor strength. This is seen in the last three numbers of the following LogServer entry: 43062011.04.13 00:27:24:547StartEffect.CheckAttackDefenseStrengths.1b (9000000000000571463L, 1506961454L) (3.0, 27.5) 0.109090909091 False So 3.0 / 27.5 = 0.109090909091 or 10.9%. Each Pith Eliminator has a 10.9% chance to jam you. Each run was ~60 minutes in a perma-tanked CNR. CNR with Sensor Strength: 27.5 Time spent Jammed: 32.1% Time spent Unjammed: 67.9% Expected Unjammed Time: (1-0.109090909091)^4 = .62999 or 63.0% 43062011.04.13 00:27:24:547StartEffect.CheckAttackDefenseStrengths.1b (9000000000000571463L, 1506961454L) (3.0, 27.5) 0.109090909091 False CNR with Sensor Strength: 143 Time spent Jammed: 8.7% Time spent Unjammed: 91.3% Expected Unjammed Time: (1-0.0209706379515)^4 = 91.9% 45062011.04.13 03:31:57:436StartEffect.CheckAttackDefenseStrengths.1b (9000000000000571464L, 1506961454L) (3.0, 143.05716435242329) 0.0209706379515 False NPC Sensor Strength Change Back in March of 2010 Sturmwolke empircally determined that ECCM does reduce NPC jamming chances. I independenty confirmed his results. When I looked back at my March 2010 data, the LogServer files show that Pith Eliminators had the following Sensor Strengths: 28172010.03.07 20:52:59:528GetAttributeValue 2100164493 scanMagnetometricStrengthBonus 10.5 28212010.03.07 20:52:59:528GetAttributeValue 2100164493 scanRadarStrengthBonus 9.5 28252010.03.07 20:52:59:528GetAttributeValue 2100164493 scanGravimetricStrengthBonus 9.0 28292010.03.07 20:52:59:528GetAttributeValue 2100164493 scanLadarStrengthBonus 10.0 As of today, the Pith Eliminator Sensor Strengths are all set to 3.0. 44912011.04.13 03:31:57:435GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571464 scanMagnetometricStrengthBonus 3.0 44952011.04.13 03:31:57:435GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571464 scanRadarStrengthBonus 3.0 44992011.04.13 03:31:57:435GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571464 scanGravimetricStrengthBonus 3.0 45032011.04.13 03:31:57:436GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571464 scanLadarStrengthBonus 3.0 Draft Conclusion * At least for the Pith Eliminator, the sensor strength values have changed, which implies that the NPC data was changed in 1.4. * Jamming chance appears to be computed normally. * In the case of the Pith Eliminator, the jamming chance should have been reduced due to the Gravimetric sensor strength being reduced from 9.0 to 3.0 in the 1.4 patch. To Do * Get more data from the 2nd room of The Assault mission. * I need to go back and verify that the March 2010 jamming rates matched the theoretical expected jamming rates. If the 2010 jamming rates don't match the theoretical rates then that would imply that the chance of jamming was changed in 1.4. (The 2010 ECCM thread merely confirmed that sensor strength reduced NPC jamming. It did not determine if NPCs were using the standard EW jamming formula.) * Additionally, while perusing the logs I noticed that Guristas battleships were having trouble hitting a stationary CNR and a mobile Tengu. I need to do more research on this. The implications are that there might be Guristas specific bug affecting the guns on large Guristas ships. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
savannah katt	Posted - 2011.04.13 05:40:00 - [41] I just want those jammers they have that jam me at 125km away to drop already.
Dilligafmofo Gallente Sandman Plc	Posted - 2011.04.13 06:03:00 - [42] Is this to be rectified? or have my Marauders just become redundant?
Zaknussem Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.13 11:58:00 - [43] Originally by: Guilliman R Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers. If it's broken it shouldn't get on TQ. To be frank, "If it's broken it shouldn't get on TQ", applied to its extreme would have prohibited the game from going live 8 years ago in the first place. But you are otherwise dead on the money. Competence at CCP is at an all-time low. Just by skimming over this thread, the first thing that comes to mind as the cause of the bug is the same thing that happened with Magnetar C6 systems in WH Space - stack enough bonuses on top of one another, and the modifier becomes a negative value, meaning maximum efficiency at all times.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.13 13:43:00 - [44] I don't think ECM is broken. I think the problem is that it has been fixed... It looks like CCP might have cleaned up/fixed the NPC ECM code and the real problem is that it now needs to be re-balanced. NPC ECM lasts for 20 seconds. Thus we would assume that NPCs would attempt to jam you every 20 seconds. However, when I looked at the March 2010 data, the intervals between jamming checks were all over the place with times ranging from 20 seconds to 60+ seconds to over 300 seconds. Yesterday's logs show more consistent jam attempts. NPCs attempt to jam every 20 seconds (but every 21st jam attempt occurs after a 27 second interval has passed.) The reason for the increased jamming in missions might simply be that CCP has fixed NPCs by making them try to jam every 20 seconds which has increased the number of jamming attempts made by NPCs. Since the NPC sensor strengths appear to be hard coded at 3.0 for Pith Eliminators, Pithum Annihilators, and Pithum Nullifiers, it looks like CCP tried to balance the increased frequency of jamming attempts by lowering NPC sensor strength. Which means that a Golem with a 14 sensor strength has a 3 / 14 = .214 = 21.4% chance of being jammed by an ECM NPC every 20 seconds, or a 78.6% chance of not being jammed. If there are * 1 NPC Jammers: 78.6% chance of not being jammed * 2 NPC Jammers: 61.7% " " * 3 NPC Jammers: 48.5% " " * 4 NPC Jammers: 38.1% " " Needless to say, a handful of NPC jammers can make your day miserable. IMO, CCP might want to lower NPC sensor strength a bit, or reduce the number of jamming rats that one can encounter at once in a mission. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
LaBuffalo Nordic Innovations	Posted - 2011.04.13 14:02:00 - [45] Assault and GE can be blitz with jam free, duh..... Intercept The Saboteurs is where the real problem is.
Doddy Excidium.	Posted - 2011.04.13 14:39:00 - [46] Eccm is your freind (2 will do most of the time, marauder needs 3). Stealth armour tank buff methinks, all those empty meds on paladin Also i see a niceprice increase for sensor strength implants coming. Really people should stop moaning, its no worse then getting your optimal reduced to 5k vs sansha rats, or infinite nosing blood raiders.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.13 16:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Guilliman R Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers. If it's broken it shouldn't get on TQ. In theory yes. In practice, name one software company that has never let a bug slip out out to the public. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Illectroculus Defined Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2011.04.13 17:19:00 - [48] There are ECCM mods (Backup Sensors) that fit into low slots, they're not as strong as mod slot ECCM but don't need to be activated either. Plus there are implants, and other options for boosting sensor strength. And if you're a dedicated mission runner who really hates ninja slvagers, maybe you just go all the way and boost your sensor strength high enough to make you unprobeable, or at least harder to scan down than the other people in system. See, this is a stealth nerf to ninja salvagers, not that ninja salvagers care about Gurstas salvage. Spaceships!
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Mavnas And this is why I don't run missions against the Guristas. Don't they also give crappy loot and salvage? More generally, why isn't there a skill to improve sensor strength? Even just 7.5% per skill level would help a lot. EVE has skillz to get bonuses to almost everything else, with sesor strength being one of the very few exceptions. -- Salpad
Teranul	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:45:00 - [50] Urgh... Let's be honest, there's nothing NPC jamming that actually adds to the game in any way. If the objective was to nerf mission running, then yes, CCP has succeeded at that most admirably. Otherwise, it's just silly. I mean, hey, missions are typically run by a solo player going up against some ridiculous number of NPC ships... so, by extension, their E-war capability has to be considerably weaker than player E-war to account for this. Just like their range, tracking, damage, and tanking ability are all considerably weaker than that of any decent player. Please fix, kthx
Forum Troll Trolling Forum Trolling Corp	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:56:00 - [51] stealth motsu nerf? I like!
Amy Elteam	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Teranul Urgh... Let's be honest, there's nothing NPC jamming that actually adds to the game in any way. Be careful following that logic, I mean once you have an invincible ship then running missions doesn't add anything to the game, since there's no chance of failure. I mean why not just turn the mission system into 'push button, get bacon' if there's no chance of losing.....
Teranul	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Amy Elteam Originally by: Teranul Urgh... Let's be honest, there's nothing NPC jamming that actually adds to the game in any way. Be careful following that logic, I mean once you have an invincible ship then running missions doesn't add anything to the game, since there's no chance of failure. I mean why not just turn the mission system into 'push button, get bacon' if there's no chance of losing..... Meh. The road to getting to that point for a new player is entirely paved with peril, which is fine. But there are considerably better ways to make missions interesting than throwing constant E-war in players' faces. If anything, the jamming makes already yawn-inducing missions even more boring because there's no pew-pew to be had. I'd prefer Incursion AI over this **** any day.
karmaaa	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:30:00 - [54] time to find another game, account canceled
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.04.13 21:38:00 - [55] L4's I've been running lately I use a Heavy Tengu on the mediums, Navy Scorp (cruise) on the large, and the Scorp's T2 drones on those blasted jamming frigates. Both ships tank easily, and my Scorp pilot has insane drone skills so the drone loss/damage is minimal.
Bezatfal	Posted - 2011.04.13 21:43:00 - [56] Do spur implants work, with their additional sensor strength? Looks like it might be worth gettng some if they do..
No07	Posted - 2011.04.14 06:45:00 - [57] Originally by: stoicfaux Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/04/2011 13:50:43 I don't think ECM is broken. I think the problem is that it has been fixed... This. It now seems to work just as "well" as for example serpentis sensor dampening in e.g., The Blockade mission. That is a mission that is auto-declined for solo pilots but a very good mission if you bring a friend. What it leads to is that those missions gets declined and you get the 4-hour waiting. Not a big deal. Adapt. On a side-note I would also suggest balancing the number of ewar npc's in any given mission. It is not good if the already few good lvl4 mission gets reduced even further. It should be the other way around. 7
catinboots Minmatar Vintage collective	Posted - 2011.04.14 07:49:00 - [58] It doesn't make the mission harder just annoying and taking much longer, I am not asking ccp to nerf it only that they buff the other pirate faction EW aswell, or else nobody is going to run missions for the caldari anymore, unless it is ccp intention to make lvl 4 a group thing aswell which sounds ridicilous since most of them are easy done solo even without a pimped up faction ship And please ccp have some love for the marauder, i m not asking for more damage or more slots just a bit of love for the marauder sensorstrenght , alot of people invested alot of time training for one and you are slowly step by step making the ship obsolete and useless ________________________________________ Minmatar are like jedi knights, we use ductape as our force, it has a darkside and a sticky side
Adeena Torcfist Caldari Dark Underground Forces	Posted - 2011.04.14 12:08:00 - [59] the Guristas are using the wrong type of ammo & will be corrected. expect to see that in an upcoming patch
Kraizer793 88Flak	Posted - 2011.04.14 13:10:00 - [60] Yeah, Jamming isn't the way to go for mission difficulty. My first L4 mission I got the other day was The Assault, and tried to run it in a Drake. even when following the aggro rules from eve-survival, I still was jammed up the whole time. I had to get a friend come in with a remote ECCM / sensor boost Blackbird to help. But really, the ECCM Didn't help at all, even when he had four of them running on me consistently... I had to decline the mission and suffered a .5 standing loss because of it. Back to grinding L3's for me, I s'pose. I'd be in favor of Incursion AI over the jamming crap. For that matter, even a few Stealth Bombers or smartbombing ships would shake things up a bit in my opinion. AFK, Need more Quafe.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.04.14 13:16:00 - [61] It is a "good" change in that it is more transparent, but holy crap is it annoying. Take any of the supposedly PvE ships (ie. Marauders) into a Gurista mission and watch the jam bar for 90% of the time .. literally, they miss one cycle every 5 minutes or so, quite impossible to do Assault, Extravaganza or any other 'rat heavy' mission. Give marauders interceptor lock speed, or Remove jamming from the high EHP rats (ie. BS), or Let them be subject to player ECM range (even a Scorp cant permajam you from 120km), or Remove ECM from game entirely and rethink the whole thing.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2011.04.14 13:58:00 - [62] Its funny to see all these carebears still whining - even devs said they are looking into it and even all they need to do is fit 1-2 eccm and dont shoot triggers that spawn more ecm rats. Or use drone ship... For examle assault is unbelievably easy to do since you need to destroy only ONE group of ships with only TWO jamming ships. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida (even a Scorp cant permajam you from 120km) Properly fit ecm scorp has 6-7 jammers with 9+ strenght and 115+100 range.
Illectroculus Defined Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2011.04.14 16:20:00 - [63] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Properly fit ecm scorp has 6-7 jammers with 9+ strenght and 115+100 range. But a properly fit scorp is also armor tanked and needs Logistics support to have any chance of survival. Ewar specialised ships in general have lousy tanks (yes, there is the epic story of the bait Curse...) whereas with NPC ships the hardest ones with the most EHP are the ones that Jam/Damp/Disrupt/Neut. Long term it'd be nice to see more differentiation in mission rats with obvious trade offs in capabilities instead of simply increasing tank and dps. Spaceships!
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.04.14 20:47:00 - [64] Perhaps they have messed up the sensor strenght, perhaps not. But I still think the fundamental problem is the sheer amounts of rats that are encountered in missions and plexes alike. It's just silly that one ship (even if it's capsuleer piloted) can take on 20 frigs, 10 cruisers, 15 battleships all at once. The should beef rat tanks/dps and bounties by a factor 2-3 and decrease their numbers by the same amount. Then you would naturally only have to deal with 1-2 ships ECM'ing, instead of CCP having to hack all sorts of strange special cases into rats. "These rats can ECM, but hmm... there's too many of them! We'll just lower their sensor strength... because... erm... Balance! of course it must be balanced!" So one imbalance (The greatly overpowered players), is countered by another imbalance (huge amounts of rats), leads to another imbalance (EWAR from so many ships), is countered by, yes you guessed it, another imbalance (low sensor strenght on the npc's). Overhaul the basic system CCP! It's the fundamentals that are skewed. Build on a proper foundation and you won't have all these imbalances feeding eachother. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
victoren	Posted - 2011.04.14 21:27:00 - [65] 167 sensor strength and The Assault still jams me like 25% of the time
Zan Shiro	Posted - 2011.04.14 22:42:00 - [66] Edited by: Zan Shiro on 14/04/2011 22:42:54 Originally by: victoren 167 sensor strength and The Assault still jams me like 25% of the time know the fun....finally got time to play and pulled assualt last night. Tengu with eccm 2, sensor backup array II. Tengu pilot with sensor sub system 4 (and the sub ofc) with HG talons full set. Not permajammed but jammed way more than before. Good for 1 jam per bs kill decent part of the mission. Used to be maybe 2-3 jams burned through the sensor strength the whole mission. was getting jammed 5 times at least in each of the 2 rooms. Guessing ccp devs have alts or friends who spam lp for the sensor strenght implants lol. Based on last nights performance...I would not run that mission on anything less than my above setup for ship or pilot. HG talons on anything besides tengu...eft not putting up omfg numbers for sensor strength (even if you wreck a cnr or golem fit with eccm and sensor backup). Not asking for immunity but something not right when 600+ mil implants fail several times a night. I'd accept double my usual amount of jam the whole mission....got at least 5 per room though lol. I seen the eft numbers with my talons on cnr or even golem...based on tengu run last night would not run those in this mission if I had them for sure lol. I see tengu and talon market booming if not fixed shortly, must check wallet to see how much I can speculate with lol...Funny thing is I got this setup because I really just don't like vultures and practice what I preach about going unprobable. Now its needed to run a mission not bieng jammed all night long.
Col Callahan Caldari Boogie Monsters	Posted - 2011.04.15 03:57:00 - [67] Well its back to what is was 2 days ago...felt like it was ok yesterday but now its back to unusable. THANKS CCP . . . I heard you the last time.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.04.15 05:20:00 - [68] Edited by: Sturmwolke on 15/04/2011 05:23:24 @stoicfaux Great updates. Looking back and for the between the (imperfect) 2010 logs and 2011 1.4 patch logs : * Jam success formula vs sensor str is more or less consistent and remains unchanged. * What changed is the timings (the one thing that wasn't measured in 2010). The perceived lower chance of jamming in 2010 is probably due to the loose EW timings in-between each attempt. * The 2011 1.4 patch EW timings is a lot tighter, more consistent. It also introduces a 4 sec lag for the effect to latch-on. This is obvious from delay observed from the start of the EW in the overview. Not a gamebreaker, but a definite devolvement from what was. With seemingly random timings in the 2010, it won't be easy to balance the NPC ECM to what was. So, yes, I'd agree that CCP in effect, fixed ECM but lost the balance. Now, if the current balance post patch 1.4.2 still makes life noticeably difficult with 2 > ECCM mods, then I'd say rather than a fix/streamline, the patch notes should reflect the true situation - that NPC ECM was buffed (vs prior to 1.4). They should stop playing with misleading words. edit: clarity
Col Callahan Caldari Boogie Monsters	Posted - 2011.04.15 17:41:00 - [69] 1. Lower the drop rate of nanoribbens 2. Stealth buff ECM 3. Tengu only ship worth using with Guristas 3. ???????? 4. Profit? I see what you did there CCP . . . I heard you the last time.
Skylitsa	Posted - 2011.04.16 01:29:00 - [70] It was the update I was waiting for. Thank you CCP. I'm having so much fun!
Korlissa Komodo Enterprises	Posted - 2011.04.16 02:57:00 - [71] Lol, even L1s are impossible, Just tried to do Score L1 on my new alt and couldn't do it, was perma-jammed by only 3 frigs.
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2011.04.16 12:43:00 - [72] I'm now having to use a decoy ship tanked to the max to get anywhere....
Cyberus Caldari Final Destination.	Posted - 2011.04.16 12:44:00 - [73] Is it goin to be 6 months plan to fix this CCP? its take way too long rigth now tbfh! ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use one that will display - Fallout
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.16 12:49:00 - [74] buff guristas bounties to compensate for the increase in time and effort to kill them! ------
Noddy Comet Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.16 13:07:00 - [75] Originally by: Korlissa Edited by: Korlissa on 16/04/2011 07:24:41 Blah, even L1s are impossible, Just tried to do Score L1 on my new alt and couldn't do it, was perma-jammed by only 3 frigs. Luckily I'm in Amarr territory so I shouldn't get too many guristas and I'm an older player so I know better, but I feel sorry for newer players trying out caldari for the first time, it's gonna give them one more reason to say Eve is too hard and never come back. I found the exact same situation on my new Caldari alt in the starter missions (perma-jammed up the arse for 7+ minutes straight every time I warped back in after repairing) But apparently according to the 'experts' in this thread, anyone who dares comment or complain about this is a carebear and the easy fix is to just fit millions more ISK-worth of equipment and FoF missiles that we don't have the skill points for into ships that we don't have the skill points for either... Yes, CCP did comment somewhere that they are "looking into it".. little that it's worth for new players
Millie Clode Amarr Insert Cool Name Here	Posted - 2011.04.16 21:02:00 - [76] Edited by: Millie Clode on 16/04/2011 21:03:48 Ah, delicious irony. Back in the day, every 'bear worth his salt was achura due to the stupid minmaxability of the stats you got from ditching charisma in your starting attributes. It lead to caldari space being THE mission hub. Now caldari space meaning endless guristas missions is actually a problem rather than a minor annoyance we might see the populations of the other areas rise a bit :) Also, "EVEN LEVEL 1S ARE IMPOSSIBLE ZOMFG" is totally ******ed. Use an arbitrator or vexor, unleash drones and go watch youtube videos for a few minutes. What's wrong with you people? ---------- Who, me?
Teranul	Posted - 2011.04.16 22:51:00 - [77] Originally by: Millie Clode Use an arbitrator or vexor, unleash drones and go watch youtube videos for a few minutes. What's wrong with you people? ->Implying level 1 mission runners have cash for cruisers ->>Insert <woosh.jpg> here
Gartanus Caldari Nbiri Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.16 23:59:00 - [78] Originally by: Guilliman R buff guristas bounties to compensate for the increase in time and effort to kill them! I like this idea! This space reserved for something witty.....
Celia Therone	Posted - 2011.04.17 00:20:00 - [79] Originally by: Noddy Comet But apparently according to the 'experts' in this thread, anyone who dares comment or complain about this is a carebear and the easy fix is to just fit millions more ISK-worth of equipment and FoF missiles that we don't have the skill points for into ships that we don't have the skill points for either... FoF Missiles 22,500 isk ~20 minute train Missile Launcher Operation 18,000 isk ~32 minute train. I've used FoF on Assault level 4 several times since the patch. It's slower but it's not really a big deal. Or use... Drones 18,000 isk ~6 minute train, no pre-req I used to used to be an almost pure drone user, these guys will grind up level 1's pretty trivially. Adapt or sit there jammed and not be able to do anything a lot.
Korlissa Komodo Enterprises	Posted - 2011.04.17 02:15:00 - [80] Originally by: Millie Clode Also, "EVEN LEVEL 1S ARE IMPOSSIBLE ZOMFG" is totally ******ed. Use an arbitrator or vexor, unleash drones and go watch youtube videos for a few minutes. What's wrong with you people? As I said, and apparently have to say again, my main concern is for newer players who don't know these workarounds.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.04.17 06:24:00 - [81] Originally by: Millie Clode Also, "EVEN LEVEL 1S ARE IMPOSSIBLE ZOMFG" is totally ******ed. Use an arbitrator or vexor, unleash drones and go watch youtube videos for a few minutes. What's wrong with you people? It might be kind of hard to get a t1 cruiser past the gate into a lot of level one mission. Might be. Kind of hard. Why, it's almost like you don't know what you're talking about! Or maybe you're talking about the pro mission runners, who can have a different ship available for every mission. Lots of real pro mission runners with tons of sp do level 1s. That's where the real money is. Or maybe, maybe just maybe, level 1s are for new players. And, maybe, maybe level 1 missions have gates that often restrict t1 cruisers from entry. Gah!
Millie Clode Amarr Insert Cool Name Here	Posted - 2011.04.17 09:17:00 - [82] 1. You can get cruisers into the majority of level 1s, only a few (including worlds collide) specify frigs/dessies only. 2. You can train for a passable drone-cruiser capable of AFKing level 1s inside a week, claiming SP to be a bar is fairly poor. 3. Doing the tutorial missions in full will give you enough money to buy a vexor. ---------- Who, me?
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:40:00 - [83] Originally by: Millie Clode 1. You can get cruisers into the majority of level 1s, only a few (including worlds collide) specify frigs/dessies only. 2. You can train for a passable drone-cruiser capable of AFKing level 1s inside a week, claiming SP to be a bar is fairly poor. 3. Doing the tutorial missions in full will give you enough money to buy a vexor. Yeah, and new players are totally going to figure all that out. Because this is a game with excellent documentation and a player base that loves helping new players. And having a new player train for nothing but flying a vexor (and doing nothing meanwhile) is a great plan. GAH.
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:51:00 - [84] tl;dr: Half of all Guristas missions are totally not worth doing in marauders since after the patch. This needs to be fixed. The new ecm on mission Rats is a big nerf on marauders..the ship made for lvl 4s in the first place. Don¦t like _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
Capt Retard	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:10:00 - [85] Hold on, hold on! Besides a bit of miscalculation on the part of the release, it seems like this is more akin to some of the other mechanics working. One mission I almost always dropped (Serp Assault) was because I couldn't tank and fit my Mael to do it - too many mids being used for sensor boosters. Now I just get an alt with remote sens to do his thing. Its still a PITA, and its still one I lean towards a domi for. Its time to adapt, and start stokcing up on those remote ECCM mods :)
Mibad	Posted - 2011.04.18 05:48:00 - [86] Good thing I can do an anom and make 1.9mil a tick in guristas space! Thx for the coupled anom scam and NPC jam strength! Better head back to highsec and just do level 4's where I can actually make money. Atleast then I dont have to worry about, hot droppers, afk cloaky, and roaming fleets!
RaptorXL Caldari Tax Evasion R US	Posted - 2011.04.19 19:20:00 - [87] The new jamming is rediculous. Was perma jammed for over 10 minutes in a nighthawk on 'The assualt'. Refit with a sensor backup array and a eccm and an alt using projected eccm, same **. 10 minutes of jamming before I was fed up and warped out. Can't even lock long enough to get drones to engage. Exaclty what is the point of making it impossible to run caldari missions or rather, to use caldari ships? Trying to kill off only one of the 4 races? Either everyone will stop flying caldari to avoid being jammed or they will stop flying caldari missions... either way, CCP has effectively ruined 1/4th of the game. This needs to be fixed yesterday CCP. Not hard either, just a quick patch to turn NPC jamming off until you ing figure this ** out.

CCP Big Dumb Object	Posted - 2011.04.19 19:26:00 - [88] Hey guys. We've got a strike team working on solutions now. Thanks for your patience in this.

RaptorXL Caldari Tax Evasion R US	Posted - 2011.04.19 19:26:00 - [89] Originally by: Millie Clode Edited by: Millie Clode on 16/04/2011 21:03:48 Also, "EVEN LEVEL 1S ARE IMPOSSIBLE ZOMFG" is totally ******ed. Use an arbitrator or vexor, unleash drones and go watch youtube videos for a few minutes. What's wrong with you people? I don't know about you, but when I pay to play a game, I want to be actively playing it... not watching videos while I AFK in game... WTF is wrong with you? The rest of us are normal.
Forum Troll Trolling Forum Trolling Corp	Posted - 2011.04.20 08:39:00 - [90] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 19/04/2011 19:27:09 Hey guys. We've got a strike team working on solutions now. No firm ETA yet. Thanks for your patience in this. NOOOOOOOOOO KEEP THEM CRYING!!!! RUN THE SERVERS ON THEIR TEARS!!!! also it will get half the server population out of caldari space and into other space
Sorru	Posted - 2011.04.20 09:32:00 - [91] You could allways buy a set of sensor strength implants.
Celia Therone	Posted - 2011.04.20 11:45:00 - [92] Originally by: RaptorXL The new jamming is rediculous. Was perma jammed for over 10 minutes in a nighthawk on 'The assualt'. Refit with a sensor backup array and a eccm and an alt using projected eccm, same ****. 10 minutes of jamming before I was fed up and warped out. Can't even lock long enough to get drones to engage. Exaclty what is the point of making it impossible to run caldari missions or rather, to use caldari ships? Trying to kill off only one of the 4 races? Either everyone will stop flying caldari to avoid being jammed or they will stop flying caldari missions... either way, CCP has effectively ruined 1/4th of the game. Use friend or foe missiles - they don't need a lock they just target the closest ship or object. So you AB/MWD to the ship that is jamming you, or could jam you, and spam it with FoF until it dies. Repeat until you aren't jammed any more.
Alberik	Posted - 2011.04.20 16:19:00 - [93] Originally by: Celia Therone Use friend or foe missiles - they don't need a lock they just target the closest ship or object. So you AB/MWD to the ship that is jamming you, or could jam you, and spam it with FoF until it dies. Repeat until you aren't jammed any more. funny if you try to do GE. Was webbed down to about 10m/s in the last (not bonus) stage, so no ABing to any target until all triggers were pulled. i managed to get 1 or 2 cycles of cruise furies on one target every now and then and let the drones do the rest while firing fofs with my golem. the longest time permajammed was about 6 minutes. i dont like the jamming in missions very much, but now its far out of way. i could understand if the ewar-hulls would do some jamming, this would give new choices, killing the jamming or the ganking ships first.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.04.20 16:31:00 - [94] Originally by: Alberik the longest time permajammed was about 6 minutes. Damn... -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.20 16:42:00 - [95] Edited by: stoicfaux on 20/04/2011 16:43:39 Originally by: Alberik i managed to get 1 or 2 cycles of cruise furies on one target the longest time permajammed was about 6 minutes. I'm not use which is worse, being jammed for six minutes or a using cruise missiles on a Golem. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Insert Your Name	Posted - 2011.04.20 17:32:00 - [96] Originally by: Guilliman R Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers. This, and how about not changing anything that isn't broken in the first place?
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.20 17:50:00 - [97] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Guilliman R Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers. If it's broken it shouldn't get on TQ. In theory yes. In practice, name one software company that has never let a bug slip out out to the public. That is true however the recent forum fiasco plus the boot.ini fiasco plus countless bugs in every release makes me think that ccp's qa departments is staffed by monkeys. God this is more horrible then Lotus Notes Pod
grumpyguts1	Posted - 2011.04.20 21:20:00 - [98] Had this happen to me.. seemed to be perma jammed, so switched to FOF in my Tengu and watched some TV, sadly it does kill blitzing
Hyland X	Posted - 2011.04.21 15:44:00 - [99] Edited by: Hyland X on 21/04/2011 15:45:24 Well I just came back to Eve after a long break, and despite all the great stuff in the patch, this just killed the game for me. Just lost my Rokh after being perma jammed then, get this, warp scrambled by a BATTLESHIP!! That's a lovely combo CCP, thanks. Even if I COULD fight through the jamming long enough to sick my drones on the scrambler, they couldn't take down a BS in time to save me. This happened on Dread Gurista's Recon part 1, level 4. If anyone want's to confirm there is a warp scrambling BS, because people in chat are saying there isn't. Doing missions is out of the question for Caldari players at the moment. And after losing two battleships in two days, I can only wish I had found this threat sooner so I would have known wtf the deal was. I didn't come back to this game after a year to lose tons of ISK on buggy game design, or mine space rocks to make up for it. I don't have a trillion skill points or a tricked out Caldari Navy Scorpion. But before I took a break, what I had was PLENTY enough for level 4 missions. Now I can't even get past the first freaking group of rats in Recon part 1 without being jammed/scrambled to death? What the hell? Did you even test this patch? I'm putting in a ticket. You can refund my Rokh, or lose a subscriber (again). Your choice.
SPACESHIPS LAWYER	Posted - 2011.04.21 16:06:00 - [100] This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc. Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec.
Col Callahan Caldari Boogie Monsters	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:06:00 - [101] Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc. Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec. I don't say this often....but your the exception....you are an idiot. They wouldn't be looking into if they didn't feel it was a mistake. I just hope they get the patch out in a timely manner. . . . I heard you the last time.
SPACESHIPS LAWYER	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:14:00 - [102] Originally by: Col Callahan Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc. Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec. I don't say this often....but your the exception....you are an idiot. They wouldn't be looking into if they didn't feel it was a mistake. I just hope they get the patch out in a timely manner. it is not a mistake, mission runner ruining eve with their no risk playstyle. either CCP continue to fix missions and increase NPC jamming and ewar and difficulty to balance risk vs reward, move all missions to lowsec and nullsec, or remove missions from game completely.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:17:00 - [103] Originally by: Hyland X This happened on Dread Gurista's Recon part 1, level 4. If anyone want's to confirm there is a warp scrambling BS, because people in chat are saying there isn't. You mean this mission? There shouldn't be scramming battleships. And it's Guristas, not Dread Guristas. fyi: eve-survival mission reports ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:52:00 - [104] And Recon Part 1 isn't designed to be fought.. you get in a fast ship and run to the accel gate. Why the hell were you even in a position to be jammed and scrammed?
Felix Maynard	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:55:00 - [105] Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER mission runner Glad there are no gurista rats or compelxes outside of highsec. That would be terrible.
SPACESHIPS LAWYER	Posted - 2011.04.21 19:07:00 - [106] Originally by: Felix Maynard Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER mission runner Glad there are no gurista rats or compelxes outside of highsec. That would be terrible. The complaint is about missions but yes even in pure blind and lowsec guristas space jamming should be increased many many times current strength and chance to balance risk vs reward. is too easy to farm for cheap isk. sanctum out of pure blind was good start but need more chance for ewar and scrambling to make ratting and plexing fair. logic still stands. CCP is on the right track.
Vorekk LowBall Heavy Industries	Posted - 2011.04.21 19:28:00 - [107] What hell is making these people think that more jamming = more risk? --- Join Lowball Heavy Industries. Small, focused fleets - lots of high intensity action, the EVE way.
Holdout	Posted - 2011.04.21 19:39:00 - [108] Originally by: Vorekk What hell is making these people think that more jamming = more risk? I suppose if you were jammed for a long enough period of time while warp scrambled, you could get your ship blown up.
ValentinaDLM Minmatar Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.04.21 20:38:00 - [109] I general I feel this is a good move, my only frustration is that I can't counter ECM in ways I could with players, i.e. I can't damp a NPC to break it's lock or drain his cap so he can't run that ECM. Having some ewar work and others not is kinda silly to me. That being said I was impressed that with 160+ sensor strength I got jammed a few times an "the assault" l4, not a big deal though really. If you really must do a bunch of gurista's missions or plexes gain aggro then take a blackbird alt full of remote ECCM and maybe a remote sensor booster or two (frigs suck to relock) if the alt takes damage warp them out and back in. With NPC AI this easy, you really can't complain too much. if you don't have any alts, then fly a tengu. If you don't want to do that move out of caldari space, it is way too busy there as is.
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:00:00 - [110] What justifies that one part of the universe has much tougher (read: annoying) npc's for the same reward? ------ http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4441/evesigr.jpg
Hyland X	Posted - 2011.04.22 03:14:00 - [111] Originally by: Feligast And Recon Part 1 isn't designed to be fought.. you get in a fast ship and run to the accel gate. Why the hell were you even in a position to be jammed and scrammed? Salvaging and missions are my bread and butter. You think the loot and salvage from 10+ ships isn't worth it as apposed to the pitiful ISK bonus for completing the mission faster? Please. And yes, there was a very large ship warp scrambling. I was sure it was a BS but now people are making me doubt it... Still, what a crappy game experience. Honestly CCP...
Rens Cheque	Posted - 2011.04.22 17:11:00 - [112] Originally by: Hyland X Originally by: Feligast And Recon Part 1 isn't designed to be fought.. you get in a fast ship and run to the accel gate. Why the hell were you even in a position to be jammed and scrammed? Salvaging and missions are my bread and butter. You think the loot and salvage from 10+ ships isn't worth it as apposed to the pitiful ISK bonus for completing the mission faster? Please. And yes, there was a very large ship warp scrambling. I was sure it was a BS but now people are making me doubt it... Still, what a crappy game experience. Honestly CCP... If you think loot and salvage is the way to make money running missions....then you are not very good at running missions yet. Speed = money in mission running.
FishermansFriend	Posted - 2011.04.22 19:53:00 - [113] Who ever said lvl 4's are single player content, maybe bring the whole line of npc ewar in line with this is require a tank+dps for missions. Lvl 4's are to easy and risk-less to be pulling 30/40/50/60mil/hr on a single account. I think it's time overall bounty's were reduced by making the npc's harder to kill and LP amount was boosted slightly. Makes an isk sink and returns profit/risk back to eve with lowsec having extremely good lp/bounties for lvl 4's and highsec being kinda meh.
llKeylockll	Posted - 2011.04.22 20:52:00 - [114] I recently went with a Conjunctive/Gravimetric Backup fit on a Rattlesnake and avoided being ecm'd almost entirely.
ValentinaDLM Minmatar Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.04.22 21:03:00 - [115] Originally by: Rens Cheque Originally by: Hyland X Salvaging and missions are my bread and butter. You think the loot and salvage from 10+ ships isn't worth it as apposed to the pitiful ISK bonus for completing the mission faster? Please. If you think loot and salvage is the way to make money running missions....then you are not very good at running missions yet. Speed = money in mission running. Playing Devil's advocate a bit here, I make lots more with salvage and loot as my current standings plan requires me to decline all sansha, gallente, and minmatar missions from my amarr agents. So I could run them quickly and then run into a situation where I would have to decline on all my agents on all my charaters and then have idle time where i couldn't run a mission in high sec. Not to mention the gains by farming Worlds Collide. That being said, if you have your LP skills up, speed beats salvaging and looting, assuming you are not like me and declining missions alot. And also if you are not getting your mission time bonus because you took too long salvaging you are definitely doing something very very wrong, most of those missons lot you have hours to get them done and salvage, and you can get most l4 missions done in a t1 cruiser quicker than an hour, much less the three or so you usually got for your bonus.
Rens Cheque	Posted - 2011.04.22 21:16:00 - [116] Originally by: ValentinaDLM Playing Devil's advocate a bit here, I make lots more with salvage and loot as my current standings plan requires me to decline all sansha, gallente, and minmatar missions from my amarr agents. So I could run them quickly and then run into a situation where I would have to decline on all my agents on all my charaters and then have idle time where i couldn't run a mission in high sec. Not to mention the gains by farming Worlds Collide. That being said, if you have your LP skills up, speed beats salvaging and looting, assuming you are not like me and declining missions alot. And also if you are not getting your mission time bonus because you took too long salvaging you are definitely doing something very very wrong, most of those missons lot you have hours to get them done and salvage, and you can get most l4 missions done in a t1 cruiser quicker than an hour, much less the three or so you usually got for your bonus. You are not yet efficient at missioning. Once your faction standing is sufficiently high you can decline missions left and right and not lose much standing at all for doing so. Aside from that, you seem to be claiming that because you spend a lot of time sitting around doing nothing, you might as well go salvage those missions you just finished. Not a very compelling argument that salvage/loot is the way to make money running missions.
Hyland X	Posted - 2011.04.22 21:30:00 - [117] Originally by: Rens Cheque If you think loot and salvage is the way to make money running missions....then you are not very good at running missions yet. Speed = money in mission running. Well since Eve is a "sandbox", I choose to loot and salvage because that's how I like to play. Is there a problem with that? And yes, speed is key. Which is why being perma-jammed is a major nerf to those, especially Caldari, who run missions. I know it's hard for you older players, but try to remember that not EVERYONE has a Golem or whatever and can blitz every mission. Oh wait, bad example, the Golem is apparently worthless now with all the jamming anyway.
Hyland X	Posted - 2011.04.22 21:59:00 - [118] Originally by: FishermansFriend Who ever said lvl 4's are single player content, maybe bring the whole line of npc ewar in line with this is require a tank+dps for missions. Lvl 4's are to easy and risk-less to be pulling 30/40/50/60mil/hr on a single account. I think it's time overall bounty's were reduced by making the npc's harder to kill and LP amount was boosted slightly. Makes an isk sink and returns profit/risk back to eve with lowsec having extremely good lp/bounties for lvl 4's and highsec being kinda meh. You might have had a good point if you couldn't make BILLIONS an hour selling Plex with absolutely ZERO risk or effort... If missions become an "ISK sink" instead of profitable, then nobody without a second account will do them. Congrats, you made the game less fun. Eve is supposed to be a sandbox MMO where you get to decide how to play. I'm seeing people, probably pirates or PVP'eers, who want to see high-sec mission grinding killed off so their preferred playstyle becomes dominant. That goes against everything EVE is supposed to stand for.
Teranul	Posted - 2011.04.22 23:11:00 - [119] This talk of nerfing mission running income is **ing hilarious. Also incredibly stupid. This thread is about the **edness of the E-war setup, not your hangups with "risk/reward" or whatever other stupid bull** you can't get out of your head. I said it before, I'll say it again - NPC E-war in general is out of line with their other capabilities. Their tank, DPS, tracking, and speed are all blatantly inferior to that of NPC ships, so obviously their E-war should follow suit. It doesn't make any sense for it to be any different. Either that, or you cut a bunch of ships out of the missions themselves and increase NPC stats accordingly to compensate. Obviously, one of these would take less time (and thus, money) than the other... you can probably guess where I'm going with this.
SPACESHIPS LAWYER	Posted - 2011.04.23 00:10:00 - [120] Originally by: Teranul This talk of nerfing mission running income is **ing hilarious. Also incredibly stupid. This thread is about the **edness of the E-war setup, not your hangups with "risk/reward" or whatever other stupid bull** you can't get out of your head. I said it before, I'll say it again - NPC E-war in general is out of line with their other capabilities. Their tank, DPS, tracking, and speed are all blatantly inferior to that of NPC ships, so obviously their E-war should follow suit. It doesn't make any sense for it to be any different. Either that, or you cut a bunch of ships out of the missions themselves and increase NPC stats accordingly to compensate. Obviously, one of these would take less time (and thus, money) than the other... you can probably guess where I'm going with this. Nerfing missions does not fix the issue at hand. Missions need to be removed from the game as this is a pvp only game.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.23 00:17:00 - [121] Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER Nerfing missions does not fix the issue at hand. Missions need to be removed from the game as this is a pvp only game. Post your idea in both the Features and Ideas forum and in the Assembly Hall forum. The CSM (player representatives) reads the Assembly Hall stuff, so I'd prioritize your efforts there. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Hyland X	Posted - 2011.04.23 14:52:00 - [122] Just got an email. They are refunding my Rokh that was lost to insane jamming and warp scrambling after their investigation. So clearly these rats are NOT working as intended. I'm very pleased with the Eve support team, and look forward to this issue being patched soon so I can get back to my cake eating
K8 Ekshin	Posted - 2011.04.23 17:09:00 - [123] Originally by: Nerana Saldana Raven? Have you tried the FOF missiles? I mounted an ECCM grav module in my Raven's mid, and switched to FoF's on the fifth room of GU Extravaganza. The FoF's hit that large ring structure around the jumpgate, and then the closest ships: frigates. This prematurely triggered more waves until the mission became impossible. The ECCM module was useless. The FoF's were worse than useless. Flying around completely unable to lock was too annoying to play. I had to switch to my Drake to finish. It took half an hour to kill those four "Eliminator" jammers. It was NOT a fun game. Then I had GU Assault. I've solo'd it many times before, but now it's new. I was so completely jammed out that it was impossible. GU Extravaganza and Assault can no longer be done solo. No matter your tank or firepower. You can't kill what you can't lock onto. I had to wait an hour until corp mates came on to help. I got aggro, got jammed, and they killed stuff. I'm not really against the way the GU's jam, since it encourages team play. I just wish the ECCM modules actually had any use. They don't. Completely useless. I ripped it out of my Raven and am now using it's dish to pick up Satellite TV stations.
adiabatex	Posted - 2011.04.23 21:37:00 - [124] Edited by: adiabatex on 23/04/2011 21:38:09 Aha, so it's not just me. I took a couple of months off EVE and I come back to being permajammed when trying to run a mission I kinda liked before - Guristas Extravaganza. I finally made it to the last pocket of Guristas Extr., but after my drones had cleared out the frigs, I had nothing more to do. Jammed to hell and back. Went back to the station, fitted a cheap ECCM, but no change. It was possible to get a lock now and then, but never for long enough to actually get a second volley off. I sure wouldn't mind harder missions, but this is just very annoying, and at times ridiculous (e.g. you're permajammed and the NPCs can't kill you, so you're in a perpetual staring contest). The same thing happens in other Guristas missions. It's not harder, it certainly isn't more risk. But it makes casually running a couple of missions when you have time very frustrating, as you're stuck on the last wave for ages. Aaanywho, glad to see CCP is looking into it. Sure it will be fixed/changed soon enough, then. --- Rabble, rabble, rabble.
Zantarek	Posted - 2011.04.24 03:17:00 - [125] So there we were with my new mission alt heading off to do some standings work on level 2's. Ahh ! The Guristas Spies. Cool. 5 minutes work. Off we go, in my superbly fit meta 2 modules Caracal, armed to the teeth with bloodclaws and 2 hobgoblins. 10 ships to kill ; piece of cake ! Warp into mission, release drones, target those pesky despoilers, fire a volley..oh oh...little buggers are jamming me. No probs, my trusty drones will take care of them, go guys go ! Sheesh, just typical ; they're attacking everything except the jammers ! OK..set orbit at 25km for a few secs then....tap...tap...tap...might go make a coffee...tap...tap...back and still jammed...so flying around in circles but thankfully invulnerable to their viscious attacks due to my awesome tank. It's a standoff ! Let's call it a draw guys..can I get half my standings then ? tl;dr 5 minute 'blitz' took 25 minutes Might move him to Amarr space methinks
LinChow	Posted - 2011.04.24 04:03:00 - [126] I'm flying a Rattlesnake. I carry 5x Warden II, 5x Garde II, 10x Hobgoblin II's and 5x Hammerhead II. When I get one of these pesky over-jamming missions. I set my drone settings to "aggressive" and sit and watch the rats pop. My ship is so tanked up that nothing gets me below 85% in most lvl 4 missions. The few that do, I have never seen less than 50% shields. Eventually the drones take the right rats out and I can start using my t2 cruise launchers to help th drones along. I see more time involved but it's not impossible. CCP is going to keep on until they ruin this game, if they haven't already. I feel it's only a matter of time.
FishermansFriend	Posted - 2011.04.24 21:45:00 - [127] Originally by: Hyland X Originally by: FishermansFriend Who ever said lvl 4's are single player content, maybe bring the whole line of npc ewar in line with this is require a tank+dps for missions. Lvl 4's are to easy and risk-less to be pulling 30/40/50/60mil/hr on a single account. I think it's time overall bounty's were reduced by making the npc's harder to kill and LP amount was boosted slightly. Makes an isk sink and returns profit/risk back to eve with lowsec having extremely good lp/bounties for lvl 4's and highsec being kinda meh. You might have had a good point if you couldn't make BILLIONS an hour selling Plex with absolutely ZERO risk or effort... If missions become an "ISK sink" instead of profitable, then nobody without a second account will do them. Congrats, you made the game less fun. Eve is supposed to be a sandbox MMO where you get to decide how to play. I'm seeing people, probably pirates or PVP'eers, who want to see high-sec mission grinding killed off so their preferred playstyle becomes dominant. That goes against everything EVE is supposed to stand for. Lol wut? Think about what I said and what you just said. I dont want people to have to pay for missions but I want the bounties nerfed and most of the income to come from putting isk+tags+lp into the LP system therefore lowering total isk in game therefore lowering inflation. Your just stupid if you think anyone would propose that people would have to pay to run missions. All this playstyle stuff is crap, everything is free choice and under everyones plan you can still run missions, either they wont be as profitable or they wont be lvl 4's... No one wants to get rid of highsec/concord...
Hyland X	Posted - 2011.04.25 00:18:00 - [128] Originally by: FishermansFriend Lol wut? Think about what I said and what you just said. I dont want people to have to pay for missions but I want the bounties nerfed and most of the income to come from putting isk+tags+lp into the LP system therefore lowering total isk in game therefore lowering inflation. I know. Which is absurd, as if missions are causing inflation when something like Plex is in the game? Nerfing missions is not on the table, the jamming is broken and NOT working as intended. If this was their idea of "fixing" missions then I can't wait to see how your ideas would work out /sarcasm.
GENERAL CONSTANTINO Caldari Corporation xXx	Posted - 2011.04.25 09:00:00 - [129] LOL finally CCP's answer to the players saying " Guristas is an easy kill " now i guess you cant kill what you cant target? well not unless you use FoF, and finally FoF manufactureers are happy for the first time XD
Kievan Ariskana Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.25 10:13:00 - [130] I dont mind the occasional jamming cycle but being jammed for almost 15min is getting tedious and is reducing the gameplay fun drastically. And its not just the Guristas, its everything thats flying a Caldari based hull. I refuse to cross-train to Gallente or Caldari just so I can run the missions with (heavier) drones or FOF-missiles. It looks like CCP is trying to p1ss off every player with unpopular gameplay changes because there is too much ISK in the EVE Economy.
Jaik7	Posted - 2011.04.25 15:26:00 - [131] i was grinding ammatar fleet lvl 1s to get standings up, thinking i'd be safe from the guristas and their jammers. i was so very wrong. speed tanking kestrel+jamming guristas=450KM off the mission objective. i had never been jammed by NPCs before yesterday. i contribute my rabbles to the rabble rabble Originally by: CCP Shadow The trolls have been vanquished.
Teinyhr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.05.15 11:32:00 - [132] Edited by: Teinyhr on 15/05/2011 11:32:31 nvm sorry for necro
ivar R'dhak Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.15 15:58:00 - [133] No it¦s good. Shows nicely how long it takes CCP to decide on altering a couple of numbers in the database. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
Dealth Striker Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.16 04:59:00 - [134] Last dev post said they had a strike team on the problem - that was back in April. Did the strike team go on strike? How about an update since the person that made the post, is immune from finding all posts made by them. --------------------- Communication is Key!
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.16 05:40:00 - [135] Imagine how upset people would be if Guristas used actual ECM boats instead of fitting their entire fleet with poor quality jamming hardware :) But that people can get this upset over 3.0 strength ECM make things look good for my life as an ECM pilot. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Phizban	Posted - 2011.05.17 18:16:00 - [136] ECM jams stuff. Sunny D and Rum, yum yum.
Corpse Holder	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:04:00 - [137] I think the issue is that they are all using ECM boats (judging by the strength), it's just they look like regular ships.
Carcopino	Posted - 2011.06.01 09:18:00 - [138] Posted - 11/04/2011 17:09:00 Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience. Posted - 19/04/2011 19:26:00 Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 19/04/2011 19:27:09 Hey guys. We've got a strike team working on solutions now. No firm ETA yet. Thanks for your patience in this. Hello ?. It's been almost two months now, and nothing has been heard about this issue since. Got any updates ?.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.06.01 12:07:00 - [139] Originally by: Carcopino Hello ?. It's been almost two months now, and nothing has been heard about this issue since. Got any updates ?. finally the rats get to use their ECM properly, and you moan about it. Lets talk about equality here, give the guristas a fair chance against your god-mode space boats! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN!

CCP Big Dumb Object	Posted - 2011.06.01 17:56:00 - [140] Originally by: Carcopino Hello ?. It's been almost two months now, and nothing has been heard about this issue since. Got any updates ?. Hey all. We rebalanced the crap out of some 100+ sites. Fixed silly things like 8 jammers in a single level 2 mission. Sadly the testing task was too massive to get everything out in a hotfix. Look for rebalanced sites coming in with the upcoming Incarna release.

Killua Zoldyeck	Posted - 2011.06.01 18:40:00 - [141] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Originally by: Carcopino Hello ?. It's been almost two months now, and nothing has been heard about this issue since. Got any updates ?. Hey all. We rebalanced the crap out of some 100+ sites. Fixed silly things like 8 jammers in a single level 2 mission. Sadly the testing task was too massive to get everything out in a hotfix. Look for rebalanced sites coming in with the upcoming Incarna release. Excellent news! So the 'Guristas Jamming Madness' bug will be fixed on the next patch later this month? Great! :)
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.06.01 19:48:00 - [142] Edited by: Ana Vyr on 01/06/2011 19:49:10 I said the heck with it and moved to Amaar space. There's really no point trying to do security missions in Caldari space anymore.
youthink	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:46:00 - [143] Just did GE4. I got jammed three times. Yes, one - two - three. Neither repeatedly' nor 'perma'. How did I manage that? ECCM. Two of them. On a SNI. Adapt, people. Adapt.
Kristan Nvar	Posted - 2011.06.01 20:49:00 - [144] Originally by: youthink Just did GE4. I got jammed three times. Yes, one - two - three. Neither repeatedly' nor 'perma'. How did I manage that? ECCM. Two of them. On a SNI. Adapt, people. Adapt. What i do if see Jammer might be present i drop soem ECCM on my SNI Plus run with a gang of friends we yell out if jammed to take them out.
Little Fistter Caldari Crimson Templars	Posted - 2011.06.01 22:54:00 - [145] Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER Nerfing missions does not fix the issue at hand. Missions need to be removed from the game as this is a pvp only game. That is the most ignorant crap ever uttered. Playing slap and tickle with thirteen-year-olds is not a game I would pay for. And popping newbes is not in the least fun for an adult. we like to accomplish things that are challenging, like solving puzzles and using strategy to win over adversity. Without Missions, Mining and Manufacturing, all you have is WOW with spaceships. PvP is anti-social on a large scale, and for one would never miss it. DEVS! Please a small color indicator upon jump gate icon that shows color of the system security rating of the destination system in the overview and in the HUD view. Little Fistter
Carcopino	Posted - 2011.06.02 10:35:00 - [146] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Hey all. We rebalanced the crap out of some 100+ sites. Fixed silly things like 8 jammers in a single level 2 mission. Sadly the testing task was too massive to get everything out in a hotfix. Look for rebalanced sites coming in with the upcoming Incarna release. Hello there !. Glad to hear you guys kept looking into this issue. Let's hope everything goes smoothly. Thanks for your quick reply !. Cheers.
Voith	Posted - 2011.06.02 13:10:00 - [147] Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc. Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec. What risk? When I run LSec Gurista's missions I do it in a ship that can passively tank well over 1k DPS. There is no risk, just annoyance. "Annoying" and "Time Consuming" does not equal "challenging" and "risky".
vlad0821 Artwik	Posted - 2011.06.02 16:03:00 - [148] Ok this is horrible, i have runned the blockade lots of times on my eve short live and never ever had mayor troubles with it untill today, im grinding caldari standings so im once again runing lvl 1 missions, thats right, a lvl 1 mission called the blockade, well i should have done it in 15 - 20 minutes at most lets say 30 to be a pessimist, well it tuck me + than an hour couse every damn ship was jamming me, i was perma jammed in a lvl 1 mission!. luckly im not a new player and i have got some skills in this couple of months and i knonw how to flight and when to warp out. However i can not imagine a new player doing this lvl 1 mission and getting jammed to hell and probably lossing his ship... fix this now, this is horryble to game mechanics...
coolzero Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.20 22:19:00 - [149] its in the patch note...yippie -The number of jamming NPCs in over 75 Caldari and Gurista sites has been re-balanced. Please warp into danger to find out more. Jack of all trades, master of none...
Thayer Vimes	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:11:00 - [150] All of this could be avoided if you just don't do Guristas. Madness? I skip every one that I occasionally come across (Amarr space) and if I get stuck with one I can't skip, I close out EVE and go do something productive. Guristas jammers can kiss my ass.
Borengar Eistiras	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:24:00 - [151] Quote: -The number of jamming NPCs in over 75 Caldari and Gurista sites has been re-balanced. Please warp into danger to find out more. If by that they meaned to say there are less NPCs that are jamming more, then they are exactly right. It took me 10 minutes to kill a single jamming BS in Vengeance Lv4. Got jammed every 40-50 sec giving the npc enough time to shield-rep the dmg I¦ve done.
Cage Shadownsun Caldari Molten Metalworks	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:34:00 - [152] I did a level 3 Guristas site just yesterday and didn't see a single jamming NPC. The missions channel, however, said that some of them were still getting permajammed. Maybe the Level 4s are having an issue?
coolzero Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.23 18:02:00 - [153] Originally by: Cage Shadownsun I did a level 3 Guristas site just yesterday and didn't see a single jamming NPC. The missions channel, however, said that some of them were still getting permajammed. Maybe the Level 4s are having an issue? no jammer in lvl 3s it was a issue for lvl 4....and you still get jammed in lvl 4 but not as insane as last patch did. Jack of all trades, master of none...
CLONE 9 Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.06.23 22:08:00 - [154] Permajamming .... 4 or 5 cycles of sitting there being crapped on endlessly with no recourse - thinking "I'm paying for this experience". Nice one CCP 9.
coolzero Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.23 22:27:00 - [155] doing guristas exravaganza today lvl 4 with my golem....pocket 5 kept me 10+ minutes perma jammed....did you CCP miss a tweak??
CLONE 9 Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.06.23 22:51:00 - [156] I tried 2 x ECCM modules to get around 58 points of gravimetric on my ship. I still got Permajammed. What a great evening of entertainment I've had. 9.
grumpyguts1	Posted - 2011.06.24 00:27:00 - [157] Originally by: K8 Ekshin Originally by: Nerana Saldana Raven? Have you tried the FOF missiles? I mounted an ECCM grav module in my Raven's mid, and switched to FoF's on the fifth room of GU Extravaganza. The FoF's hit that large ring structure around the jumpgate, and then the closest ships: frigates. This prematurely triggered more waves until the mission became impossible. The ECCM module was useless. The FoF's were worse than useless. Flying around completely unable to lock was too annoying to play. I had to switch to my Drake to finish. It took half an hour to kill those four "Eliminator" jammers. It was NOT a fun game. Then I had GU Assault. I've solo'd it many times before, but now it's new. I was so completely jammed out that it was impossible. GU Extravaganza and Assault can no longer be done solo. No matter your tank or firepower. You can't kill what you can't lock onto. I had to wait an hour until corp mates came on to help. I got aggro, got jammed, and they killed stuff. I'm not really against the way the GU's jam, since it encourages team play. I just wish the ECCM modules actually had any use. They don't. Completely useless. I ripped it out of my Raven and am now using it's dish to pick up Satellite TV stations. Tengu with FOF works great. It helps to have a speed mod as the FOF will hit the closest enemy so you need to fly right up to the intended target if you worried about triggers. The FOF will even hit your buddies if they "accidentally" TP or shoot at you.
Spin Spin Sugar Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.24 11:02:00 - [158] Originally by: coolzero doing guristas exravaganza today lvl 4 with my golem....pocket 5 kept me 10+ minutes perma jammed....did you CCP miss a tweak?? The problem with marauders is a low sensor strength. The move to mirror jamming as found in pvp is a big nerf to marauders - you have to fit eccm which will of course use valuable space for tank... Other ships are less effected. You could always use a tengu :)

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