Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose.

Exploits are profiting from things passively that should be active. (Like AFK plexing)

A ninja savager has to take the time and effort to probe down the mission runner just for the salvage, and then risks their ship to do their ninjaing. Working as intended.

Try missioning in a quieter part of high sec...or mission in low sec where you can shoot first if you think you can win.

OP, did you know that in 0.0 the ONLY way for you to make money to survive is to kill rats while there are no bad people in local ...

and that there are some bad people who will then decide to jump in those systems and stay there .. like ... forever? And cloaked, so that nobody can kill them?! Now people can't make money!!


So really ... there are far worse exploits to deal with!!

They risk their ship...a T1 frigate or Dessy in most cases. Cost less than 500K total. So you pop that. Then the whole fleet of people warp in and you're effed, good by marauder, navy bs, whatever you fly to do level 4's. Then they profit from that.

The exploit is abusing a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage over a player.

Someone stupidly said "you have to earn salvage" - if it wasn't for my guns blowing up that ship, there would be no salvage to collect.

Funny how loot can be yours but not salvage

When they steal your salvage

OThey'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk.

They risk their ship...a T1 frigate or Dessy in most cases. Cost less than 500K total. So you pop that. Then the whole fleet of people warp in and you're effed, good by marauder, navy bs, whatever you fly to do level 4's. Then they profit from that.

The exploit is abusing a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage over a player. Someone stupidly said "you have to earn salvage" - if it wasn't for my guns blowing up that ship, there would be no salvage to collect. Therefore, I earned it. It's mine. Funny how loot can be yours but not salvage, that doesn't make sense. Something's that PASSIVE and should be ACTIVE:

When they steal your loot they ACTIVELY have an aggression countdown for theft. When they steal your salvage NOTHING happens - therefore the result is entirely passive. Like I said, its loose loose, either shoot and get ganked or let them have it and watch your hard work get taken right from under your nose. Dishonorable, weak, lame, and generally poor.

If you are going to shoot at them... WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU STAY in your mission ship.
Take a shot at them and if they warp out so should you and ship up/down to a pvp ship, (careful you might enjoy this part even if you lose a ship)

They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against.

OP, did you know that in 0.0 the ONLY way for you to make money to survive is to kill rats while there are no bad people in local ...

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it.


Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it.

OP, did you know that in 0.0 the ONLY way for you to make money to survive is to kill rats while there are no bad people in local ...

and that there are some bad people who will then decide to jump in those systems and stay there .. like ... forever? And cloaked, so that nobody can kill them?! Now people can't make money!!


So really ... there are far worse exploits to deal with!!

The exploit is abusing a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage over a player. Someone stupidly said "you have to earn salvage" - if it wasn't for my guns blowing up that ship, there would be no salvage to collect. Therefore, I earned it. It's mine. Funny how loot can be yours but not salvage, that doesn't make sense. Something's that PASSIVE and should be ACTIVE:

When they steal your loot they ACTIVELY have an aggression countdown for theft. When they steal your salvage NOTHING happens - therefore the result is entirely passive. Like I said, its loose loose, either shoot and get ganked or let them have it and watch your hard work get taken right from under your nose. Dishonorable, weak, lame, and generally poor.

Not sure if troll...



or genuine butthurt.

"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

Or that people are actually getting butthurt that someone is in their mission hoovering up the least valuable stuff.

Mr Epeen

depends on the NPC faction - some are not so less valuable.

GǪof course, the funny part is that back when salvage was worth something, the salvage whines mainly came from MRs in Caldari space, which consistently had the least valuable salvage.

Oh, I don't know. It's pretty much equally awful at this point. The days of 1M+ trit bars and armour plates are long goneGǪ

GǪof course, the funny part is that back when salvage was worth something, the salvage whines mainly came from MRs in Caldari space, which consistently had the least valuable salvage.

Risking to state the obvious, but of course those with the least will whine the most when even that is taken away from them.

What is really funny is that the "professional" ninja salvager makes more ISK per hour than most mission runners (some days up to 80m/h), while using 1/10th of the skill points.

+1 for making salvaging pull aggro.

Of course, the really awesome thing to do would be to make it so that ninja-salvaging or -looting had a small percentage chance of causing an IMMENSE EXPLOSION, that would kill everything in the room. Ninja, mission runner, rats, and wrecks all go out in a blaze of glory.

If they wanted to make it EXTRA awesome, the explosions should be visible system-wide.

what i fail to understand, is, if you return fire to a thief, how his bum buddies can warp in & gank you. Its got nothing to do with them, regardless. So that "bug" needs fixing right there for a start.....

.... & if my mate is getting ***** slapped, i'd probably laugh, & leave him to suffer the consequences.

They didn't have the least, though. They had plenty (high bounties and mass-volume LP tends to keep the cash rolling in at high speed) and got upset when an insignificant (and actually loss-creating) margin was taken away from them.

This is what we get when people aren't able to log into WoW. I thought I'd seen the last of these a good year or more ago.

Not this again...

what i fail to understand, is, if you return fire to a thief, how his bum buddies can warp in & gank you.

You're seeing this the totally wrong way.

We haven't had one of these threads in AGES ... at least i didn't notice any in GD.

Now think about it ... this one thread gets read by many ... and of these "many",
there'll be "some" who'll think: "hey that's great, i'll try that too!"

And even if it's not "profitable" or there are better things to do ... at least they create content... :)

That's because when he steals from you, CONCORD gives you freedom to shoot him. However when you shoot him, its officially "On". For his friends, and for yours too.

It's your fault that you shot a guy without friends to help you defend yourself. There are no cases in EVE where two parties that aggroed each other can't bring their friends to help. Its a social game after all.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

Salvage by definition usually implies free for all...

But this isn't the real world.

here's my .2 pence, yes they are lowlifes, but to be honest ever since the nerf almost all of it is trash, and I don't care if the bum rifles through it looking for recyclables, I often bookmark them blue it then jettison bookmarks, free stuff, not worthy of my time.

Right there with you.

Show us where the Salvage Ninja touched you.

In the "wreck".

Was it a large wreck, a medium wreck, or a small wreck?

Nah +1 for anybody whining about ninja salvagers being flagged in game with a GCC for badposting.

I'm not whining. Flags for salvaging wrecks belonging to others would only be a buff to Ninja Salvaging.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

100% agree with OP. Loot ninjas are ******* scum bags who should be Concorded dry up the @rse. Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me.

Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me.

Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me.

For the same reason as why mission runners can't just build their own supercaps.

Because the can't anchor a Capital ship Assembly array in Hi-sec?

Nope that doesn't work as an answer.

Op:

Ignore the ninja and keep killing your stuff, let it take whatever he wants to get YOUR agression and come back with a dedicated PVP ship to kill you, yes this is the Elite pvp of eve, because they're risk averse and afraid of doing stuff in low/null, they prefer Concord protection to bully new players/mission runners and then complain because lvl4's are in high sec...
It's also thx to those dudes mining barges got buffed, it will probably be thx to then at some point high sec will become completely safe and then they will complain, once again, like jelly red haired kids you took candies away from them.

Why don't you just spot the trigger and kill it so they get caught by scram/web frigs and killed by rats? -I can assure you this is hilarious, then fraps it or screen shot it and post it in local each time you see it in or his corp.

there are no agents in sov 0.0

i hope i have enlightened you today

Because they don't have enough sp yet to do lvl 4's and find NS to be more lucrative than grinding low lvl missions? Also NS is way more fun.

make it a fair fight.

Because the can't anchor a Capital ship Assembly array in Hi-sec?

100% agree with OP. Loot ninjas are ******* scum bags who should be Concorded dry up the @rse. Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me.

"Waaah someone stole my spacejunk! Where's my blankie?"

100% agree with OP. Loot ninjas are ******* scum bags who should be Concorded dry up the @rse. Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me.

This has to be a troll.

Otherwise we're expected to believe that the OP has been playing EVE for over 4 years but still doesn't understand the difference between an exploit and intended gameplay.

Likely? I think not.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

because OP is bad and can't take care of himself.

Sometimes I don't mind people helping themselves to salvage. For example today i was doing Angel Extrav on my main and I just could not be bothered to think about going back in the noctis and picking over the wrecks. So when I was joined in the last room by a salvager I just abandoned all the wrecks and said he could help himself. Seems such a shame to let it all go to waste.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

I got suckered with this the other day, and my thoughts are a bit mixed. I took the bait and shot at the enemy ship that was engaging in the looting activity. Don't let the year old character fool anyone, my actual playtime is less than six months.

On the one hand, shame on the "veterans" that think that this is a novel and fun way to have a game played. A person is doing an NPC portion of the game and is not looking for and probably not even suitably fitted for a fight, and is in a high security place in which they are not planning to engage in such. On the other hand, PvP happens in EVE, though, so there is some measure of accepting that it will occur that a player must recognize and be willing to tolerate. "Fair play" is not an evolved concept in EVE, nor in its community.

This lack of fair play is a fine thing, school of hard knocks and all that rot. The problem lies in the security status aspect. In my case, the person doing this had a sec status in the 3's--no sec hit for a directly pirate like act. After it was all done, I'm left with no kill rights on him, nor the basilisk he warped in as assistance. The orca he warped in didn't even go red(I'm shady on what this was even used for as I don't know enough about it but he appeared to switch fits or craft on me at one point to gain an ECM), frankly I'd have had time to kill that or chase it off if it had.

The fact that I am unlikely to ever see any of these three craft in a non-high sec area, or even outside of a mission space for that matter, means I'll essentially never be able to retalitate.


So to make the story shorter, I think it is fine that a person can go through the trouble to scan down a mission and steal your loot, even if I feel no obligation to think highly of the player. I do not think it is fine that this happens without any mechanism for repurcussion or even mechanism to allow the player base to apply repursions.

Let's do the time warp again!

Finally, a quality post!

I got suckered with this the other day, and my thoughts are a bit mixed. I took the bait and shot at the enemy ship that was engaging in the looting activity. Don't let the year old character fool anyone, my actual playtime is less than six months.

On the one hand, shame on the "veterans" that think that this is a novel and fun way to have a game played. A person is doing an NPC portion of the game and is not looking for and probably not even suitably fitted for a fight, and is in a high security place in which they are not planning to engage in such. On the other hand, PvP happens in EVE, though, so there is some measure of accepting that it will occur that a player must recognize and be willing to tolerate. "Fair play" is not an evolved concept in EVE, nor in its community.

This lack of fair play is a fine thing, school of hard knocks and all that rot. The problem lies in the security status aspect. In my case, the person doing this had a sec status in the 3's--no sec hit for a directly pirate like act. After it was all done, I'm left with no kill rights on him, nor the basilisk he warped in as assistance. The orca he warped in didn't even go red(I'm shady on what this was even used for as I don't know enough about it but he appeared to switch fits or craft on me at one point to gain an ECM), frankly I'd have had time to kill that or chase it off if it had.

The fact that I am unlikely to ever see any of these three craft in a non-high sec area, or even outside of a mission space for that matter, means I'll essentially never be able to retalitate.


So to make the story shorter, I think it is fine that a person can go through the trouble to scan down a mission and steal your loot, even if I feel no obligation to think highly of the player. I do not think it is fine that this happens without any mechanism for repurcussion or even mechanism to allow the player base to apply repursions.

Sometimes I don't mind people helping themselves to salvage. For example today i was doing Angel Extrav on my main and I just could not be bothered to think about going back in the noctis and picking over the wrecks. So when I was joined in the last room by a salvager I just abandoned all the wrecks and said he could help himself. Seems such a shame to let it all go to waste.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

The most annoying thing is if you're in the middle of a fight and a ninja salvager turns up and starts to loot, you still have the aggro. Wouldn't it be great if the aggro switched to the newcomer.

Is there a stage for missions where you're better off killing, turning in and grabbing another one rather than salvaging?

LoL.

LoL'ing isn't trolling, right...?

p.s. You can switch the aggro to the newcomer. Every right click in space and try warping out? Idealy, while said ninja is close to a horde battleships/battlecruisers...?

What rationale could there possibly be, for a change like that? The Angel Cartel suddenly doesn't mind that you blew up all their friends?

"OOOHH!!! There's a ninja, let's stop going after that guy with 8 large blasters pointed at us, and kill that little pest in his frig......!!!!!"

"He looks SUPER annoying!!!"

If I have time after running a mission, I'll abandon my wrecks just so someone else can have them if they want them. Same with dead rats in the belts. The stuff's going to go poof at downtime anyway.

Not this again, as CCP have mentioned more times than I care to remember "Salvage isn't yours until you salvage it.!

So you want to eliminate ninja salvagers' fun because you want more risk-free, effortless space money. Okay.

ninjasalvagers money is also risk-free and even more efforless. bumping exhumers is also fun, im sure, but very risk free.

In 2 hours they go poof anyway. Any salvaging newbie knows that

At least they do in anoms.

"ninja salvaging" is specifically intended gameplay and precisely what CCP had in mind when the introduced salvage. Salvage was explictly not intended as part of the mission reward.

So it is the exact opposite of an "exploit".

I think they'll always be confusion over this.

Problem being the wreak is made up of two parts the loot and salvage and the wreak has the ticker of the corp it belongs too, clearly shown.


Edit: Maybe it would have been better to have wreaks that had no loot, be shown blue with no corp attached to it.

2) Shoot your wrecks. If they're after salvage, blow up any wreck they approach. It's a clear message that they won't profit and they won't get fights. Again, they'll go in search of easier targets.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

I think they'll always be confusion over this.

Problem being the wreak is made up of two parts the loot and salvage and the wreak has the ticker of the corp it belongs too, clearly shown.


Edit: Maybe it would have been better to have wreaks that had no loot, be shown blue with no corp attached to it.

My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.

Here's a little ownership test for ya: can you shoot the wreck without Concord blowing you up? If not, then the wreck is owned by the person who CAN shoot the wreck without being Conkordokkened.

Here's a little ownership test for ya: can you shoot the wreck without Concord blowing you up? If not, then the wreck-áloot is owned by the person who CAN shoot the wreck without being Conkordokkened.

Here's a little ownership test for ya: can you shoot the wreck without Concord blowing you up? If not, then the wreck is owned by the person who CAN shoot the wreck without being Conkordokkened.

you could always come back in a pvp ship and fight too

And then their Falcon alt uncloaks at max jamming range...

This, unfortunately. Falcon is toxic to all types of gameplay.

And then their Falcon alt uncloaks at max jamming range...

And gets concorded into the ground if it does anything? If you don't understand the mechanics don't bother poasting.

When mission runner shoots at your ship your corp gets rights to attack that mission runner.

Learn to deal with them, either let them have your loot or fight them off. If you're worried about them not fighting a "fair" 1v1. Bring more guys to help you out. If you can't be bothered to deal with them with force, relocate and do missions in a quieter space.

When mission runner shoots at your ship your corp gets rights to attack that mission runner. Nothing will happen to your Falcon alt.

It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them

OP, did you know that in 0.0 the ONLY way for you to make money to survive is to kill rats while there are no bad people in local ...

and that there are some bad people who will then decide to jump in those systems and stay there .. like ... forever? And cloaked, so that nobody can kill them?! Now people can't make money!!


So really ... there are far worse exploits to deal with!!

If a ninja steals from your can and you come back with a PVP ship... his friends cannot attack you.

And for the Morons that say if you shoot a ninja that steals from you his friends will gank you... you are morons to.

When mission runner shoots at your ship your corp gets rights to attack that mission runner. Nothing will happen to your Falcon alt.

Easy way to deal with ninja looters that's fun as well.

When one comes into your mission, target your own cans and just as he get to one pop it. then rinse and repeat just as he gets to the next to a can pop it again, that way if you don't get the loot /salvage then no one will.

Also fun to see how many cans your victim will fly too before he gets bored/angry (my record is 5 cans) then leaves or starts to target you in the hope that you will shoot him or if your lucky does shoot you then fun really starts : )



Tal

Ninja can't shoot me either.



Why he would shoot that random mission runner if he (ninja) steals from his pirate friends (corp hangar?)?

Reading isn't your strong point, but try reading what he actually wrote until you get it. It'll be worth the effort!

(I gave you a little helping hand)

It was originally "thief that steals from his friends"... L2F5

If you don't like someone taking your stuff, be prepared to do something about it.

100% wrong, like i say don't poast if you don't understand the mecanics.

Problem is that they are so risk-averse that if there's more than one character from same corp they don't do it because it's possible that they just can't press that iWin button.

Easy way to deal with ninja looters that's fun as well.

When one comes into your mission, target your own cans and just as he get to one pop it. then rinse and repeat just as he gets to the next to a can pop it again, that way if you don't get the loot /salvage then no one will.

Also fun to see how many cans your victim will fly too before he gets bored/angry (my record is 5 cans) then leaves or starts to target you in the hope that you will shoot him or if your lucky does shoot you then fun really starts : )

Who are GÇ£theyGÇ¥ in this sentence? If people choose not to do something about the theft they're being subjected to, then no, that is not a problem.

"Ninja", "thief", "nullbear" whatever you want to call him...

"Ninja", "thief", "nullbear" whatever you want to call him...

Problem is that they are so risk-averse that if there's more than one character from same corp they don't do it because it's possible that they just can't press that iWin button.

What Iwin button do they have?

They're doing it to get into fights (and there are no I-win buttons there)

Will carebears ever stop crying? Why do they play this game if it upsets them so much?

Ever tried to shoot a frigate with BS sized guns?

I don't bother because my light drones kill them in about 20 seconds.

Even Vengeance? Quite epic drone skills you have there...

Anyway you miss the point, a frig cannot kill your mission ship, so who cares if you can't kill it either? Assuming the thief actually wants a fight he wants to be in something that can kill you see he will either warp off to get another ship or let you kill his frig (bit dumb to use a vengeance for this) then come back in something else.

Somebody has obviously never heard of:
- Orca
- safe spot
- aligning

Somebody has obviously never heard of:
- Orca
- safe spot
- aligning

Problem is that they are so risk-averse that if there's more than one character from same corp they don't do it because it's possible that they just can't press that iWin button.

OP, did you know that in 0.0 the ONLY way for you to make money to survive is to kill rats while there are no bad people in local ...

and that there are some bad people who will then decide to jump in those systems and stay there .. like ... forever? And cloaked, so that nobody can kill them?! Now people can't make money!!


So really ... there are far worse exploits to deal with!!

It really is cute how all the masterful super-pew dudes assume that people don't "do something about it" because they're afraid. Quite simply, I don't care. Period. You want it? Rock on. Belly-button lint it more appealing than someone dropping into a mission to try griefing. It has zero effect on my day.

But you guys just don't get it. :) I think that's cute.

Unless you want to bring an orca into a mission.

I don't probably because I'm that mission runner...

But if you gankers don't know how to use tools CCP gave you... Well, that's not my problem.

You know Orcas can't go into many missions right? And that even when they can slow boating an orca over tens of kilometres of deadspace between rooms is no-ones idea of time well spent? Or that the target can just warp off when you swap ships anyway if they bothered to align?

use d-scan (set to 2,5AU). when you see combat probes just warp away for 2 minutes.

Here is your solution OP:

I don't always mission,
but when I do...
I fly a mission Drake.

100mil isk KM vs. 4bil isk KM, pretty self explanatory.

It is called forgetting about salvage and other horseshit, and blitz for LP with Sec Connections V and Negotiation V.

Everything else aside, the OP does highlight a good point in that the seperation between the wreck and the loot contained is just odd. Salvage is valuable. One of the reasons for missioning in certain regions is the potential salvage either for sale or for use. CCP has yet to make a logical explanation as to why the thing contained within the ship is property but the remains of the ship are not.