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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.02.18 11:55:00 -
[1]
Edited by: d''hofren on 20/04/2005 10:09:23
I've noticed a few recent threads where people, (wierda for one), have praised the phoon as an under-rated battleship. However we haven't had a phoon thread in quite a while. The apprent strengths of the phoon seem to be it's nice dronebay, it's suitability for armour tanking, speed and nice 4 / 4 turret - launcher split.
The downside seems to be that like most matar ships you need high skills in all of the relevant departments.
Anyhow I've just bought one on a whim. Would anyone care to point me in the right direction? The obvious route seems to be;
lo armour hardners, gyro and / or tracking mods. Maybe a large armour rep and a small tech II one to run all the time ish.
mid webber if going autocannon or maybe tracking comp if going arty, cap recharge mods, decent ab
hi 4 x guns, 4 x siege.
drones heavies for cruisers, mediums or lights for the inties.
Strangely this is starting to look like the big brother to a rupture.
The guns is my major sticking point at the mo. Any guidance?
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RxKB1ch
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Posted - 2005.02.18 12:15:00 -
[2]
Your observations are quite right. A typical fitting might be something like:
4 X 720mm Howitzer
4 X Seige Launcher
1 X 100MN AB
1 X Webbifer (to help drones)
2 X Cap Recharger
1 X Large Armour Reparier
1 X Medium Armour Repairer II
3 X Armour Hardener
2 X What ever you need to fit/Cap Relays
Drones: Mix of Heavy and Medium depending on need.
But yes, your other observation is very sound too. You need good skills in each area here in order for the ship to do well. There are variations and adjustments. Some people use 1200mm in order to get a great range (100km+) but that can be inflexible at times.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.02.18 16:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: d'hofren on 18/02/2005 16:09:56
Edited by: d'hofren on 18/02/2005 16:09:38
 Originally by: RxKB1ch
Your observations are quite right. A typical fitting might be something like:
4 X 720mm Howitzer
4 X Seige Launcher
As in the Cruiser sized 720mm Howies? Interesting, I am very fond of those.
I've just noticed a lvl4 phoon setup thread here. It might help anyone else following this.
(these forums really need a search function other than the google hack)
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Masta Killa
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Posted - 2005.02.18 16:20:00 -
[4]
The Typhoon -is- under rated but when you see one of those warping in on your bs at 15km and scrambling you, you're going to wish you had a wcs or two because that typhoon is gonna rip you a new one 
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We are The Collective. Resistance is futile. |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 16:38:00 -
[5]
Speaking in terms of PvP:
Do you guys think it's worth it to try and use the Typhoon's Damage bonus by using large turrets? I guess you could only fit Dual 425mm and still use Siege. This would then require an MWD.
I dunno. I guess 720s are a viable option for a non-MWD Typhoon, I just hate giving up a damage bonus.
I think the Typhoon could use a missile bonus rather than a Projectile bonus. It needs an Explosive Missile Damage bonus and a Drone or Armor bonus.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Jacque Custeau
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Posted - 2005.02.18 16:52:00 -
[6]
Alowishes I am sorry, as one of EvE's few Phoon manufacturers I will have to correct your statements. The Phoon receives an ROF and Range bonus, not a damage bonus. The Typhoon had its glory days back when you could fit cruise missles into heavy launchers. Back then fitting 4 large turrets and 4 heavy launchers with cruise missles was easy. One thing I love about the Typhoon is that its one of those battleships where you will be hard-pressed to run out of CPU.
I have not flown one recently, but if anyone is shopping for a phoon contact me, my prices will not be beaten! |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 16:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jacque Custeau
The Phoon receives an ROF and Range bonus, not a damage bonus.
A ROF bonus is a damage bonus. It's 33% more damage over time at Level 5. I'd call that a hell of a damage bonus. Damage Bonus != Damage Modifier Bonus (at least in my opinion).
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
qyros
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:08:00 -
[8]
Edited by: qyros on 18/02/2005 17:10:47
Originally by: Alowishus
...
Do you guys think it's worth it to try and use the Typhoon's Damage bonus by using large turrets?
...
The RoF bonus isn¦t a damage bonus for large projectile turrets.
It¦s a bonus to make these guns usefull on minmatar ships and to prevent their use on any other ship.
Different with autocannons though.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: qyros
Originally by: Alowishus
...
Do you guys think it's worth it to try and use the Typhoon's Damage bonus by using large turrets?
...
The RoF bonus isn¦t a damage bonus for large projectile turrets.
It¦s a bonus to make these gun usefull on minmatar ships and to prevent their use on any other ship.
Different with autocannons though.
You lost me. No idea what you're trying to say.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: Jacque Custeau
The Phoon receives an ROF and Range bonus, not a damage bonus.
A ROF bonus is a damage bonus. It's 33% more damage over time at Level 5. I'd call that a hell of a damage bonus. Damage Bonus != Damage Modifier Bonus (at least in my opinion).
Projectiles are balanced around :
RoF bonus = Weapon only slightly the worst
RoF bonus + Damage Bonus = Weapon = good/solid damage
You wind up being better using siege launchers, a solid tank and then just fitting what you can without having to use RCU/CP/PDU on a typhoon which doesn't have the second bonus (optimal barely effects autocannons, it helps artillery but you are looking at RCU to fit those on a phoon without any launchers, the artillery is still ultimately inferior to the siege launchers anyway, unless your going to be sniping from extreme range)
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:17:00 -
[11]
So you're saying the bonuses of the Phoon are worthless, which I totally agree with.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
qyros
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:35:00 -
[12]
Edited by: qyros on 18/02/2005 17:49:36
Edited by: qyros on 18/02/2005 17:45:14
Originally by: Alowishus
...
You lost me. No idea what you're trying to say.
:)
It¦s a balance issue because long range artilleries don¦t use much cap. And ships with more cap shouldn¦t use them.
Noone would use these guns without the RoF bonus because they do small damage without it.
normalized damage mod without RoF bonus:
1400mm: 0.24339
mega beam: 0.33333
425mm rail: 0.28757
normalized damage mod with RoF bonus:
1400mm: 0.3042
mega beam: 0.33333
425mm rail: 0.28757
EMP L only has 44 base damage, not 48.
edit:
The range bonus helps the autocannons to get some range and increases the possible transversal speed.
It¦s about 50 m/s more transversal you get with the range bonus.
Not much but the only use of this bonus I can think of.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:43:00 -
[13]
Ok, I understand. But I don't see the point of running medium projectiles on a Typhoon because they are balanced the same way.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Kashre
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alowishus
Ok, I understand. But I don't see the point of running medium projectiles on a Typhoon because they are balanced the same way.
I used medium 720 t2 on my typhoon because they have superior range to 800mm, I have the most skill for them having specialized in minmatar, and they use negligible amounts of grid leaving you enough for a full scale tank with 2 L repairer and 3 hardeners.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:56:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 18/02/2005 17:57:17
0 cap use, solid optimal range, better tracking and lower intended target size mean that the medium artillery hit cruisers/frigs a lot better than the large autocannons do even with the RoF bonus and hit BS ok, and from mid-range where you usually operate from rather than close range like large autocannons or the extreme range of large artilleries.
Work especially well with the tech II and the extra 20 + 8% damage from specialization (large spec of course being another months ? and a *lot* more expensive to buy anyway)
Edit : and 250 ? grid use is nice too :)
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:59:00 -
[16]
Cool. Do 720mm 2 hit frigs pretty well?
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Kashre
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Posted - 2005.02.18 18:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alowishus
Cool. Do 720mm 2 hit frigs pretty well?
I found that they did ok outside of 5km and with transversals below 150-200 I think. Although they dont do so hot against the small signature of interceptors. Missiles are still better.
They tear cruisers apart though.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Buraken v2
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Posted - 2005.02.18 18:18:00 -
[18]
Pfff, using cruiser size guns on a BS is like usnig 10 inch tires on a monster truck. As a man and not a "girlie-man".
Could someone find a nice setup with large guns and NOT autocannons
maybe 4 x 1200mm's? 4 x siege?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.18 18:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Buraken v2
Pfff, using cruiser size guns on a BS is like usnig 10 inch tires on a monster truck. As a man and not a "girlie-man".
Could someone find a nice setup with large guns and NOT autocannons
maybe 4 x 1200mm's? 4 x siege?
4x 1200 I, 4x Siege I = 18,000 grid, Typhoon with eng 5 = 15.625 so you need 2x RCU I and you still have only 906 grid left to try to fit in tanking and other modules
Would need a third RCU if you want to fit an AB for instance with any tanking, if you are hoping to hunt other players from the long-ish ranges the 1200 work at you probably need MWD, at which point even with the three RCU you only have just over 1000 grid for a tank
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Moridan
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Posted - 2005.02.18 18:31:00 -
[20]
Well now, where to start :)
1. you can't fit 4 1200s and 4 sieges without some rcu. Even then its only OK as far as setups go. If you want 4 arty's and 4 seiges, get a Tempest and be even more badass.
2. The fact is you cannot sit at long range and outdamage most any other ship. You can fit 1200s and cruises fairly easily, but then your really no gonna kill anything with a real tank. An armageddon will laugh at you.
3. However you can easily fit 4 dual 650s, 4 seiges, 100Mn AB, scrambler, chargers, and a armor tank setup. This will allow the wiley and skilled pilot to rush into 5km orbit on most battleships, and give it a whoopin. The megapulse equipped arma/apoc will not be able to hit you while you orbit going aroudn 200-400 ms/s with your ab pusling. You'll lose to most close range setups like the blasterthron, AC equipped tempest, or a raven or two depending on its loadout, but you'll suprise many. From experience you can tank laser weapons easily with really only 1 thermal hardener, but nothing wrong with 2 :)
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Buraken v2
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Posted - 2005.02.18 18:34:00 -
[21]
Thanks! Then i'll go for a Tempy, altho I like the bonuses of the typhoon -.-
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
xaioguai
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Posted - 2005.02.18 19:33:00 -
[22]
I am thinking of a template that can act as a meat shield/bait/bookmark in PVP battle. It should be able to absorb the beating, await for the damage dealers to warp in and do their dirty work. It should also have to be cheap and low SP req so semi noobs can fly it and corps can simply absorb the loss.
following is my setup
high
4x NOS + 4x rocket launchers/defenders
mid
1x ECM burst, 3x cap rechargerI,
or
1x ECM burst, 2x cap rechargerI, 1x cap booster
low
1x armor rep II, 3x energized plate, 3x 1600 named armor plate
drones
multiple wave of light drones to trigger enemy's smartbomb
havn't test with it yet as most of my corp mates are flying BC. Please give comment on how long it will survive as it is being pwn/jam/web/eat up by drones
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.18 19:36:00 -
[23]
if your gonna have four launchers for defenders your probably better off switching to four assaults and staggering them - rocket launchers will likely just hit the same missiles repeatedly (wasting shots) and need to reload a lot where assaults would probably stop as many missiles with less wasted shots and much less reloading
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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aidem
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Posted - 2005.02.18 20:30:00 -
[24]
Fantastic quality of posts so far. Thanks to all.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.02.18 20:31:00 -
[25]
(grr, darned price spotting alt's, that was me)
Thanks to all.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.18 20:40:00 -
[26]
I'd probably try this:
4x 720mm 2
4x Siege
1x Electrochemical Cap Booster
3x Cap Recharger (best you can get)
1x Large Acco
1x T2 Medium
3x Hardener
2x Balistic Control
DRONES
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.02.18 20:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alowishus
Ok, I understand. But I don't see the point of running medium projectiles on a Typhoon because they are balanced the same way.
Until you use 720mm IIs, by far the most damaging howie next to 1400s for projectiles. They are actually more along the lines of BC guns not Cruiser guns. They have decent tracking and damn good damage. I shred BSs with them. Their ranges are perfect for the phoon's meager 72km Targeting range ( at lvl 4 long range targetting ). You can actually hit at that range w/ 720 IIs all the way down to 8km. Not to mention it hits BS targets better than 800mms and allows for a full set of Siege Launchers and armor tanking or a full gank setup.
--------------------
The Nest
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xaioguai
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Posted - 2005.02.18 21:04:00 -
[28]
the reason of using rocket instead assault is mainly because of speed. In fact, even with 4 rockets, i doubt if they can intercept all topedos firing from 2+ ravens. Also I think i can run much more efficent if i can activate 2nd rocket after the first one is about to reload and so on...
and after all, defenders are dirt cheap 
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.03.17 23:06:00 -
[29]
I'd go for a large smarty rather than defenders, ud be surprised just how much of the ravens fire will be shot down by an sb. If ur clever barely a missile will touch u.
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2005.03.18 00:03:00 -
[30]
4x seige
3x heavy nos
1x heavy drainer
cap recharer II x4 ( or 3 cap II's & ab )
3x hardeners
2x large accomodated.
1x md t2 repair ( or cap relay if absolutely necc. )
1 cap relay
3 nos allow the 3rd armor repair to engage
or
3 nos suck enough cap to power the neutralizer.
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Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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