Because those long range systems can outdps HML at closer ranges? Isn't that not obvious?

How did a dummy like you become CSM?

Um, please actually run the numbers - check out rails on the Ferox, rails on the Brutix, beams on the Harbinger, and artillery on the Hurricane. Load tech 2 long-range ammo. Compare. Please demonstrate how these systems do more raw DPS at closer ranges than HML's, than you can continue calling me a dummy CSM.

For all those that are upset about the heavy missile nerf - we need one of the spreadsheet jockeys here to throw up a graph of DPS vs range for all four battlecruisers. Compare max skilled Drake with HML, navy missiles to a Ferox, Brutix, Hurricane, and harbinger (also with max skills) using the longest-range ammo. Ignore modules and rigs for now - we've seen both tank and gank varieties of all of the above.

Comparing raw DPS and range both before and after the changes, it becomes quite apparent why HML's are being brought in line with other weapons systems. They should provide consistent damage, certainly, but do not need to win both in maximum DPS within optimal AND a base range that exceeds the falloff of most of the long-range turrets.

It's hard to see with numbers on a page - but if you look at the damage curves, they tell the whole story.

So....

Tracking Disruptors will decrease the range/explosion radius/velocity of my missiles?

Therefore, in the interests of balance, which I assume you have thought about, you will be allowing me to fit tracking enhances/computers to re-enhance these things?

The current Drake with 7x T2 HML launchers and 2x T2 BCU, firing T1 Scourge Heavy Missiles outputs 321 DPS.
With 7x T2 HAM launchers and 2x T2 BCU, firing Scourge outputs 401 DPS.

The Hurricane with 6x T2 720mm Artys and 2x T2 Gyrostabs with EMP outputs 371 DPS.
The Hurricane with 6x T2 425mm Autocannons and 2x T2 Gyrostabs with EMP outputs 477 DPS.

The new Drake will only have 0.8 x 321 = 257 DPS at a 25% lower range or 320 DPS with HAMs. It becomes the shittiest battlecruiser in terms of DPS. And if you nerf it further by reducing its tank, well....

Oh and now they can be tracking disrupted? So let me get this straight. Missiles will loose some of their range, will have the lowest DPS among weapons, they have flight time and they will also be tracking disrupted? And their only advantage will remain the ability to choose damage types? Goodbye solo missile platforms!



No other high tier battlecruiser requires implants or gun downgrading to fulfill its intended purpose. These decisions seem terrible on paper imho.

TDs will be the new and improved ECM. At least with ECM you're taking the risk of bringing the wrong jammer. If TD effects will apply to everything there's absolutely no reason to not bring one.

Load tech 2 long-range ammo. Compare. Please demonstrate how these systems do more raw DPS at closer ranges than HML's, than you can continue calling me a dummy CSM.

Something like this?

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/lrc.gif

This is with max skills, no other modules besides the weapons and long range ammo.

Something like this?

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/lrc.gif

This is with max skills, no other modules besides the weapons and long range ammo.

What they are doing is a blanket nerf to ships that use heavy missiles.

Caracal and its variants - completely useless now.

Something like this?

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/lrc.gif

This is with max skills, no other modules besides the weapons and long range ammo.

Of course it doesn't.

I'm simply asking why missiles should provide consistent DPS that is higher than all other long range turrets in their optimals and can project that DPS longer than those same turrets' falloff distance. What is wrong with having advantages to choosing other weapons platforms besides HML's ? Why not have pro's and con's for each instead of HML being better in every single way?

how about you put hamms on the caracal...

try getting out of your cookie cutter fits and get creative ffs!

For all those that are upset about the heavy missile nerf - we need one of the spreadsheet jockeys here to throw up a graph of DPS vs range for all four battlecruisers. Compare max skilled Drake with HML, navy missiles to a Ferox, Brutix, Hurricane, and harbinger (also with max skills) using the longest-range ammo. Ignore modules and rigs for now - we've seen both tank and gank varieties of all of the above.

Comparing raw DPS and range both before and after the changes, it becomes quite apparent why HML's are being brought in line with other weapons systems. They should provide consistent damage, certainly, but do not need to win both in maximum DPS within optimal AND a base range that exceeds the falloff of most of the long-range turrets.

It's hard to see with numbers on a page - but if you look at the damage curves, they tell the whole story.

Because a caracal can't fit HAMS, weak tank, and less dps than other short range ships.

Yes, exactly. Many thanks for providing this. As you can see in the graph, heavy missiles pretty much dominate this range class of weapons, with the only weapons system providing any advantage at all being railguns on a Ferox - and at a huge DPS hit to achieve this.

If you run the same graph after the changes Fozzie is proposing, you will see that there are now actual advantages to using other weapons besides HML at these ranges.

Um, please actually run the numbers - check out rails on the Ferox, rails on the Brutix, beams on the Harbinger, and artillery on the Hurricane. Load tech 2 long-range ammo. Compare. Please demonstrate how these systems do more raw DPS at closer ranges than HML's, than you can continue calling me a dummy CSM.

What I disagree is having a one TD mod affect all.

TD will become a module that you can guarantee that everyone and their mother will fit.

love the changes, tengu & drake had their years of dominance, now its time to spin the wheel once more

This is also my view. Guns and missiles should have separate countering modules.

If you're going to compare long range guns and HMLs, use the long range tech II ammo in the HML too.

Then do your graphs again with CN scourge vs. CN antimatter and Navy MF.

At least talk apples to apples. Then you can at least make useful comparisons.

What you mean just like ECM and disruptors?

You're suggesting that the shorter range, higher DPS, faction HML ammo should be able to be projected consistently farther than the falloff of most the other long-range turret platforms?