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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 81 post(s) |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
500

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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:27:00 -
[91] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Nickabocka Glory wrote:What will happen to the risk reward balance of high, low and null sec NPCs?
Making NPCs harder sounds like fun but the extra time and effort required to kill them needs to be reflected in their value. This should not really make them that much harder to kill, actually it is not changing their tank or DPS at all. So killing time should not change. And could lead to hilarity regarding ninja salvagers, canflippers and suicide gankers when the rats attack them... thusly making Hi-Sec safer yet? TIME WILL TELL! 
Can flippers and salvegers will indeed need to be more careful when going into someones mission. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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ChaseTheLasers
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
40
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:28:00 -
[92] - Quote
Awesome news :)
Quote:We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.
I know it's not directly related to the changes that are coming, but it would be nice to have the Sleeper AI tweaked regarding drone values.
Currently even when watching your drones, you have very little chance to save them in higher class wormholes. They also seem to really hate them....probably a bit too much IMO. |

Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
462
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
Quote:Q) Will NPCs do any new ewar?
A) No. Their actual weapons and effects will not be changing.
Currently rats mostly use their EWAR at the start of the engagement and then only occasionally. Will they use their EWAR more? If so that will impact certain complexes and missions very heavily. |

Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
8
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Long awaited, thanks for this!
Keep up the good work CCP, we love you! |

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1067
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:31:00 -
[95] - Quote
MIrple wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:What about sites like Dread Guristas Fleet Staging Point 3? There is a Guristas Fleet Stronghold that launches Citadel Torpedos every 30 seconds. It will obliterate any subcap support for the capital already required to tank it if it switches targets. Or is it expected some sites become cap only? To be honest I am not familiar with this site and will have to test it. There are ways to tank this with a subcap ship you either need small sig and speed or a Command Ship or Heavy Dictor with logi support. I am sure there might be other ways but these are two ways to deal with this. The capital is just the quickest way as you have enough damage to kill it quickly.
Remember, that logi will now get pounded too. And the station can also web for those speed tanks. A carrier still takes time to pop it, Now it seems like specifically Bring a dread or bring two carriers. |

Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
32
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quote:Q) Will NPCs do any new ewar?
A) No. Their actual weapons and effects will not be changing. Currently rats mostly use their EWAR at the start of the engagement and then only occasionally. Will they use their EWAR more? If so that will impact certain complexes and missions very heavily. My experience is not the same. I find the same level of dampening to happen throughout Blockade, and the same jamming to occur throughout Gurista Assault.
RNG seems to be R.
Edit: Could it be that you're just killing the ewar capable ships (not all are) first? |

l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
46
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:32:00 -
[97] - Quote
corestwo wrote:So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. How is this nerfing nullsec income? |

Arkea Jindoi
Black Flag Operations The Kadeshi
10
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:34:00 -
[98] - Quote
Awesome changes, very much welcomed. I look forward to the tears.
<3 u CCP |

Mashara Dawn
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:34:00 -
[99] - Quote
Quote:Q) Will the NPC's switch targets now? A) Yes, yes they will.
why u dont fix bugs? - no you must give us such crap. Will Citadel Torpedos from DED (like 10/10)Stations Swich agroo too? That will f*ck us realy.
Quote:Q) Will NPC's kill my drones? A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones.
Thank you to make Gallente Drone Boats useless. Its not a question to how much they agro. If they switch on drones, Gallente are useless.If u fly in last Pocket of 10/10 or such of those DEDs and u cant Tank the agro with a tank ship, and they switch agro on a damage ship we can say hurray. No Logi will rep such damage.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
500

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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:35:00 -
[100] - Quote
Taking a break from answering questions to participate in this event on Duality: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155467 I highly recommend you all come join us! I will be back after that to answer more questions. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
289
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:35:00 -
[101] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:corestwo wrote:So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. How is this nerfing nullsec income? It makes exploration considerably harder (repping ships are more likely to die now). Most sites (which will, doubtless, not be redone) also rely on being able to carefully control aggression. Technetium Lord |

ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Executive Outcomes
236
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:37:00 -
[102] - Quote
I take its a variable time between a rat switching, otherwise peeps might be able to tailor less tank? - Nulla Curas |

Qual
Infinity Engine
14
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Excellent and long overdue!  As a part of this, has there been any thought to go through the NPCs and give them more GǣrealGǥ weapons? ECM was a classic case of the NPCs cheating but not using the ECM rules until that one was fixed, for instance, and while they may use the same hit and damage rules, a lot of rats still fire rather improbable weapons (150km torps, grid-wide webs and tracking disruptors, 90% webs, etc.). After all, if the idea is for them to behave more like GǣrealGǥ enemies, taking away their h4x might be a good idea as wellGǪ
Yeah, I thought this too a few years back. But then I played EvE light (aka Perpetuum). In that game the NPC's use the same fitting rules as the players. (At leas they did). This seemed cool, but in the end it kinda took away the element of supprise. Now I actaully like that fighting NPC's in EvE require very different tactics than fighting other players, due to thier h4x fits. It adds diversity. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
996
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:38:00 -
[104] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Bienator II wrote:will FW NPCs receive special treatment? Special in what way? Why would we? An AI template just for them, different form the mission AI template. Mainly because the goal of an FW mission can be different than that of a normal mission, so the NPCs should be different to account for that.
I fly a Navy Domi in missions.I don't AFK them as I got a less than maximum tank (so I can fit drone damage augmentors). I control the aggro, and recall drones when I new wave hits so the drones do not catch aggro. Ill have to see just how bad this is for us drone users. Maybe Ill fit a RR to keep the sentries repped.
If you are a solo mission runner using turrets or missiles, this is a virtual non-change. It only impacts drone users and fleets. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
32
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:41:00 -
[105] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:corestwo wrote:So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. How is this nerfing nullsec income? It makes exploration considerably harder (repping ships are more likely to die now). Most sites (which will, doubtless, not be redone) also rely on being able to carefully control aggression. By following this logic, C4/5/6 wormhole corporations must be some of the poorest people in the game.
Vincent Athena wrote:If you are a solo mission runner using turrets or missiles, this is a virtual non-change. It only impacts drone users and fleets. Standard combat pilots have ammo costs ( excluding t1 crystals ). Drone pilots will now have ammo costs. |

Thomas Gilmour
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:41:00 -
[106] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:What about sites like Dread Guristas Fleet Staging Point 3? There is a Guristas Fleet Stronghold that launches Citadel Torpedos every 30 seconds. It will obliterate any subcap support for the capital already required to tank it if it switches targets. Or is it expected some sites become cap only? Forget the the FSP final, (aside from maybe losing a fighter -try fitting sebo and remote reps, should be OK-, worst case it switches to a siege dread 'plex), its the MAZE that's going to be impossible to complete with this change since it requires sub-caps. |

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
868
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
You're more than welcome. If possible we would love to get some feedback from people testing this on the test server. While we are working fast to make changes and we are testing this stuff internally there is only so much testing we can do. That and you guys always find ways to break our ****. :/
I do more exploration stuff than the mission stuff. It lets me shoot people while making ISKies :P
I'll try and get on though.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |

Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
16
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:43:00 -
[108] - Quote
Hohoho.
How you gonna name this expansion? Eve-Online: AdaptOrDiesion?  |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
696
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:44:00 -
[109] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:corestwo wrote:So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. How is this nerfing nullsec income? It makes exploration considerably harder (repping ships are more likely to die now). Most sites (which will, doubtless, not be redone) also rely on being able to carefully control aggression.
Right, precisely this. The result is less incentive to live in nullsec which is the opposite direction CCP should be going. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |

Chaunnay Solette
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:45:00 -
[110] - Quote
[Q) Will NPC's kill my drones? A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though.]
How much more often did you have to recall them?
My concern here is that drones are a pretty simple mechanic - deploy, attack, recall. I don't know of any good way to remove aggro from them short of recalling. So if "paying attention" meanss "recall them when damaged," and they get damaged more often, this sounds essentially the same as "drone users, get ready to wait around a lot more."
The relative slowness of drones (esp heavies) means that increasing the rate at which they're aggroed significantly decreases effective DPS. The effect being more pronounced the large the drones in question.
I'm all for "paying attention," but if that just means waiting around for your drones to get there/come back, I'll fly something else, thanks. Please tell me im missing something. |

darius mclever
38
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:48:00 -
[111] - Quote
corestwo wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:corestwo wrote:So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. How is this nerfing nullsec income? It makes exploration considerably harder (repping ships are more likely to die now). Most sites (which will, doubtless, not be redone) also rely on being able to carefully control aggression. Right, precisely this. The result is less incentive to live in nullsec which is the opposite direction CCP should be going. Syn Fatelyng wrote: By following this logic, C4/5/6 wormhole corporations must be some of the poorest people in the game.
Except wormhole pilots have access to far higher incomes and are working together, whereas the stuff we're talking about is solo content. Two completely different things.
Given they wanted to bring pvp and pve closer to each other, you could just use your pvp tactic and bring 400 welp canes or drakes to run the plex. just a thought. |

Bob Bedala
24
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:48:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tippia wrote:After all, if the idea is for them to behave more like GǣrealGǥ enemies, taking away their h4x might be a good idea as wellGǪ
That.
But generally, whilst I think the changes sound great (ratting in WH certainly made me rethink a few things!) I'd like to reiterate an earlier concern in that it may make training up new mission runners harder as you can't take all the aggro for them (mistakes aside). TBH up until lvl 4's I see PvE as "GTFO at the right time" training, as well as new pilots being able to test fits & different combat styles without costing them a lot of ISK & fun/woe in non-hisec.
Lvl 4 adds the only real threat, warp scram. Which is packed by frigs. So if the smaller ships (& newer pilots) will be taking incoming frigs they will be more at risk than the BS pilots they are flying with.
Getting ppl slightly fighty off mining and onto mish running surely has to be a good thing, and given only mining some ABC ores is more profitable than hisec ores for some time now, we tempt with lvl 4 bounty & loot with relatively low risk. Adding barriers to entry for mish running may be somewhat counter-productive -- especially as the grind up to lvl4's is pretty hellish given the chronic lack of variety in missions.
I can see the added "realism" will make for better training but there's def a downside IMO. Maybe instead of all mission rats getting the same brain upgrade, have some lower-reward missions with rats that don't target switch or similar? |

Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:48:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote:BRAIIIIIIINNNNNS BRAIIIINNNNSSSS This is going to be soooooo much fun. I can already taste the sea of tears  A sea of tears over this... you should have seen what else we wanted the NPC to do. 
Promises, promises. Been waiting for something like this for over 3 years...... |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1335
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:50:00 -
[114] - Quote
Every NPC should warp disrupt a capital ship if it is on field. No matter what part of space or mission/anomaly it is.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Malkavien
Arch Angels Assault Force Lawful Insanity
1
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:51:00 -
[115] - Quote
This is going to ruin the standard plexing setup in 0.0. Now you are going to have to have ships that can tank the site on their own which will mean lower dps and end up means taking more time to complete. I hope you are going to increase something to compensate for this, higher bounties on rats or a better drop rate of deadspace mods. It is going to be near on impossible to do the higher end plexes that require over a certain amount of dps unless you bring a fleet of friends with you but when the drop occurs it wont be worth peoples time as the share will be so low. In the end people are going to stop doing them and the price of deadspace loot is going to sky rocket. I can see the need to increase the rats AI but doing this will have a serious impact on peoples ability to earn isk on their own. I could see people unsubbing accounts over this I am afraid as they just wont be able to afford to keep them if they are paying by PLEX. |

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
334
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:51:00 -
[116] - Quote
I would have to be one of those Drone pilots that is a little concerned.
First off I don't AFK. But regardless, the issue is especially with Heavies. If you have your heavy drones out at 45km and they take aggro, they are so slow that often they will die before they can get back.
Now before you say, "just stay closer to your drones" keep in mind that for say a Battleship class mission runner 45km is probably a good range. A turret based BS would be engaging at 45km so it is reasonable that a drone ship (like a dominix) would be expected to engage at that range as well.
It also hampers drone ships much more, as they will have to waste time recalling and re-deploying, further putting drone pilots behind the curve vs turret based ships.
Luckily I mostly prefer sentries. But still, it could be more annoying. Maybe if NPC's had the ability to target a ships turrets... |

Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
32
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:52:00 -
[117] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Except wormhole pilots have access to far higher incomes and are working together, whereas the stuff we're talking about is solo content. Two completely different things. Nothing will change for solo pilots, as you can deduce. Also, I thought we were talking about fleet content.l0rd carlos wrote:It makes exploration considerably harder (repping ships are more likely to die now). Most sites (which will, doubtless, not be redone) also rely on being able to carefully control aggression. You agreed with him, and on the discussion of it being group work. I may be misreading so if you can offer some clarity.
Secondarily, and I mean this with no sarcasm, aren't null pilots used to (and encouraged) to work together? |

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
868
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:52:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Our ultimate goal is that PvP and PvE fits should be the same and a lot of the thought process should be the same. That is... a long way off though.
I would like to add something to this comment, to feed your thoughts.
As long as things are "predictable" enough you will end up with what I will call the "Incursion" effect. Although you (CCP) simulated all the superficial things players do in a PVP environment in Incursions, i.e. Remote Reps, EWAR, Fast ships, mobility, etc...
The predictability of it always will lean towards the most lazy way to do it. If I had to face the SAME PVP fight against other players, every. single. day. I would get REALLY good at tweaking my setups to let me get the job done with the least brain power required, especially when relying on 20 other people to help me. Maybe eventually, someone like me, would get bored enough to want to try other stuff, but the average person will just resort to the least complicated solution.
In those cases it means Tank, Gank, and spank it.
A bit of randomness gets people all out of sorts because, oh... my... god... i have to react to stuff I am not expecting. My ISK/HR is going down because I have to actually REACT to stuff, which means I have to ::
1. Observe the Situation 2. Analyze the Situation 3. Decide on a Solution 4. React on my decision to the situation 5. Assess my decision to the situation, 6. Return to step 1.
Which for most people leads to... BOOM
Ok, but really. Chaos is the real solution because that is what PVP really is! There is so much Chaos in the machine, from other players interfering with fights, to unintentional stupidity, etc. You should really look into making the NPC experience feel like more than just a room with stuff in it. Also, failure (not necessarily blowing up kind of failure), is also a good incentive to have setups more prepared to react, rather than predict the situation.
I know this is... a loooong time away.
But, I know you guys are smart enough to have observed this, but just keep it in mind.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
696
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:53:00 -
[119] - Quote
Malkavien wrote:This is going to ruin the standard plexing setup in 0.0. Now you are going to have to have ships that can tank the site on their own which will mean lower dps and end up means taking more time to complete. I hope you are going to increase something to compensate for this, higher bounties on rats or a better drop rate of deadspace mods. It is going to be near on impossible to do the higher end plexes that require over a certain amount of dps unless you bring a fleet of friends with you but when the drop occurs it wont be worth peoples time as the share will be so low. In the end people are going to stop doing them and the price of deadspace loot is going to sky rocket. I can see the need to increase the rats AI but doing this will have a serious impact on peoples ability to earn isk on their own. I could see people unsubbing accounts over this I am afraid as they just wont be able to afford to keep them if they are paying by PLEX.
Nope. CCP's vision for nullsec is huge swathes of space rented out to bot farms as in the south.
I mean, that's all that I can assume. Between nerfing moons and nerfing, repeatedly, individual pilot income, they haven't given me any reason to believe otherwise yet. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
320
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:ovenproofjet wrote:How is this going to affect the likes of Logistics ships in high end DED complexes? Are they going to get a lower target priority or are we going to have to roll even more people into the sites... Logistics ships do generate a lot of threat as far as the NPC are concerned and will probably switch to them pretty quick. As for exactly how this will change your strategies, well that we shall have to wait and see. Please ensure that the loot drops are commensurate with the level of effort required to clear the site. Requiring large numbers of players in expensive and well-tanked ships with really crappy drop rates is not a positive change, nor does it add much "fun" to this "game."
Stated another way, I believe that it is fair to make PvE more challenging. Players will always rise up to the challenge to figure out solutions to problems. But please make certain that, when players rise up to the occassion, the rewards match both the level of effort and the hardware required to create the solution. +++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
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