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Nafri	Posted - 2005.03.14 22:36:00 - [391] Originally by: Phades Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Phades Originally by: Selim Lasers: Ammo changes are good. Do them. Range nerf good, do it. Now make mega pulse and heavy pulse harder to fit, and make frigate beams easier to fit so someone can actually fit them on an inty. Done. So wait, the punisher has more grid than the interceptors and you are trying to make it harder for them to fit, when the meduim pulses take up the majority of that ship's grid already. So in essence you want to remove pulse lasers entirely and have amarr ships only use beam weapons, more specifically the dual beams. you can read? heavy pulses are cruiser sized, and thy are god damm easy to fit I was flying a prohecy with complete heavy pulse fitting/heavy launchers, AB, and low slot tanking I made no compromise and that ship even demmanded compromizes, compare that to fit most other race ships its rediculus I didnt mention anything about the battle cruisers, which have more grid than cruisers and thus can fit cruiser fittings easier. Its not my fault that the brutix has more turret slots than the prophecy. I know what im talking about, but im curious if you can read and understand what I am talking about. my mallers wasnt much more difficult to fit, prohecy is just the iceberg of joke to fit Wanna fly with me?
Liet Traep	Posted - 2005.03.15 06:17:00 - [392] Prophecy is so good that I started training amarr ships just to get it. I hate saying that because when you mention how good a ship or weapon is the nerf bat hits it. I'm going to miss my megapulses. When they change hits I'll switch to a different weapon to hunt with.
Drommy	Posted - 2005.03.15 12:14:00 - [393] WELL DONE! the apoc is dead just been on the test server, 37km optimum range WITH RADIO. its not been balanced, uve chopped its f***in balls off the only thing the apoc was renound for was its tanking, and now it cant even do that cos i cant use mega pulse for missions anymore (how the hell are u suposed to take down a usurper that keeps distance to 50km) lasers are suposed to be better, u need more pwr, to online them, and a hell of alot more cap to use them. as usual uve gimped a ship rather than balancing it (and just for teh record the apoc was well underpowered b4 hand, the mighty raven prevails as per usual) anyone who uses an apoc for missions now cant. but just for the record my ganka geddon is looking better than ever, uve moved the optimum to my general attack range . so uve nerfed what u shoulnt, and done nothing to the geddon (which i presume is wat u was trying to hurt) sorry for the rant but i think u are making a huge mistake. instead of doing the obvious and lowering hybrids cap needs a bit (which is what every one has been winging about, me included up to a couple of months ago all i could pilot was gallente) uve tryed to make other ships not as good, which isnt actually gonna help megathron users a touch, theyll still get ganked by geddons, and they still cant tank and fire at the same time. totally over kill, i hope u see sence b4 it goes live _______________________________________________ A good leader takes their people where they want to go A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too.
Flash Landsraad	Posted - 2005.03.15 12:19:00 - [394] Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 15/03/2005 12:20:48 Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: TomB Originally by: S'Daria Any chance that these graphs can be added in-game? I would like to click on a gun and select Generate Graph and a window would appear with these curves. I have had that dream and I will keep on dreaming that dream, that dream might some day become EVE reality, no promise for an if or a when. Hmm, not too sure about that, I would like to think that it would be an advantage that only the mathmatically gifted can use. Whilst admittedly I am gifted with maths so my opinion may be biased I personally think it laughable that someone can't look at a simple graph such as the ones in the first post of this topic (which I read with great interest btw - very good post ) and come to logical conclusions in what weapons to use and when, and which are more effective. Hybrids and Missiles all the way btw - go CALDARI!!!!!!! woooo! ________________________________________________ Stop Whining!!! Level Superiority
Nekhad Jormuzzar	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:31:00 - [395] Well, the most interesting part of such a thing IMHO would be to be able to plot a 3D - distance, transversal, damage - graph. In my experience there are many people unable to grasp that kind of graphs. And I agree with whoever asked for the formula. Release it so we can toy with it in Mathematica or similar software ... please.
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.15 18:10:00 - [396] Originally by: Drommy WELL DONE! the apoc is dead just been on the test server, 37km optimum range WITH RADIO. its not been balanced, uve chopped its f***in balls off the only thing the apoc was renound for was its tanking, and now it cant even do that cos i cant use mega pulse for missions anymore (how the hell are u suposed to take down a usurper that keeps distance to 50km) lasers are suposed to be better, u need more pwr, to online them, and a hell of alot more cap to use them. as usual uve gimped a ship rather than balancing it (and just for teh record the apoc was well underpowered b4 hand, the mighty raven prevails as per usual) anyone who uses an apoc for missions now cant. but just for the record my ganka geddon is looking better than ever, uve moved the optimum to my general attack range . so uve nerfed what u shoulnt, and done nothing to the geddon (which i presume is wat u was trying to hurt) sorry for the rant but i think u are making a huge mistake. instead of doing the obvious and lowering hybrids cap needs a bit (which is what every one has been winging about, me included up to a couple of months ago all i could pilot was gallente) uve tryed to make other ships not as good, which isnt actually gonna help megathron users a touch, theyll still get ganked by geddons, and they still cant tank and fire at the same time. totally over kill, i hope u see sence b4 it goes live OH NO, you might have to use long range guns!!!
Nafri	Posted - 2005.03.15 20:34:00 - [397] Originally by: Selim Originally by: Drommy WELL DONE! the apoc is dead just been on the test server, 37km optimum range WITH RADIO. its not been balanced, uve chopped its f*in balls off the only thing the apoc was renound for was its tanking, and now it cant even do that cos i cant use mega pulse for missions anymore (how the hell are u suposed to take down a usurper that keeps distance to 50km) lasers are suposed to be better, u need more pwr, to online them, and a hell of alot more cap to use them. as usual uve gimped a ship rather than balancing it (and just for teh record the apoc was well underpowered b4 hand, the mighty raven prevails as per usual) anyone who uses an apoc for missions now cant. but just for the record my ganka geddon is looking better than ever, uve moved the optimum to my general attack range . so uve nerfed what u shoulnt, and done nothing to the geddon (which i presume is wat u was trying to hurt) sorry for the rant but i think u are making a huge mistake. instead of doing the obvious and lowering hybrids cap needs a bit (which is what every one has been winging about, me included up to a couple of months ago all i could pilot was gallente) uve tryed to make other ships not as good, which isnt actually gonna help megathron users a touch, theyll still get ganked by geddons, and they still cant tank and fire at the same time. totally over kill, i hope u see sence b4 it goes live OH NO, you might have to use long range guns!!! there are no beams in this game for sure, cant be, otherwise people wouldnt complain, would thy? Wanna fly with me?**
Warnings	Posted - 2005.03.15 21:52:00 - [398] This is with no ship bonuses = No resist ??? A muninn have 92.5% em on armor, you have calculated the damage with this ship ? LOL No stop !!! Calcule the basic resist with the damage and change your ALL graph pls !!! Amarr = one damage on radio and two bad damage Amarr = only turrets of fregate to cruiser (best fregate and cruiser) => NO DRONE and NO LAUNCHER I like a graphe with torpedos pls, 450 dmg of 0m to 100km GOOD ! Thank you for the damage and turret laser !
Archfish	Posted - 2005.03.15 23:55:00 - [399] Originally by: Warnings I like a graphe with torpedos pls, 450 dmg of 0m to 100km GOOD ! Yes please! Damage over time at 100km please, damage over time at 50km please... oh, maybe that deflates your entire point ********** "We will fly at their death cannons and clog them with wreckage" **********
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.16 01:05:00 - [400] Originally by: Archfish Originally by: Warnings I like a graphe with torpedos pls, 450 dmg of 0m to 100km GOOD ! Yes please! Damage over time at 100km please, damage over time at 50km please... oh, maybe that deflates your entire point He had one ? Besides the usual incorrect ramblings about thermal and em being inferior damage types of course. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.

mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.16 08:54:00 - [401] Originally by: Archfish Originally by: Warnings I like a graphe with torpedos pls, 450 dmg of 0m to 100km GOOD ! Yes please! Damage over time at 100km please, damage over time at 50km please... oh, maybe that deflates your entire point Well assuming that the torps reach their target at 50 or 100km they will most likely outdamage any Amarr+MP setup But yah, hes kinda got no point.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.03.16 20:30:00 - [402] Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Archfish Originally by: Warnings I like a graphe with torpedos pls, 450 dmg of 0m to 100km GOOD ! Yes please! Damage over time at 100km please, damage over time at 50km please... oh, maybe that deflates your entire point Well assuming that the torps reach their target at 50 or 100km they will most likely outdamage any Amarr+MP setup But yah, hes kinda got no point. thats like assuming the sun cicles around the earth Wanna fly with me?
Brazero	Posted - 2005.03.16 21:01:00 - [403] Originally by: GFLTorque Hammerhead 4 th3 w1n ! Hammerhead = undisputable logic You're kidding, right? This has nothing to do with fixing or balancing. It's all moroning. And once again the forum humpers win great.
IonHammer	Posted - 2005.03.17 05:15:00 - [404] I realize that the graphs show a lot but does the hp/s take into account what your hitting. We know lasers are good on sheilds and crappy on armour, hybrids not bad on both and projecttiles with mixed damage types are more versitile. The changes are in lets see what the smart pVpers switch to next.
Branmuffin	Posted - 2005.03.17 06:33:00 - [405] Its a mean average of Shields and armour.
Flash Landsraad	Posted - 2005.03.17 12:26:00 - [406] Originally by: Archfish Originally by: Warnings I like a graphe with torpedos pls, 450 dmg of 0m to 100km GOOD ! Yes please! Damage over time at 100km please, damage over time at 50km please... oh, maybe that deflates your entire point I believe you are missing the point and are being very childish. I presume the devs are at least trying to introduce some kind of realism into EVE so here goes. In reality - when you fire a missile or torpedo - no matter how far down the flight/cruise time it is - as long as it hits it does damage. It doesn't matter how far away from an enemy you are it will still do the same amount of damage whether you hit from close or far away. Now lets take say laser pens or torches. What heppens to a torch beam as it gets further and further away from the source (aka the torch)? It diminishes in effectiveness eventually becoming totally useless. The more powerfull the torch or laserpen - the further the beam will go. This is the same with lasers - when very close lasers should do loads of damage - when really far away they should do next to nothing. Apply what I have just said to EVE and it will make sense I think (presuming the devs are trying to recreate slight realism). I do however think that torps should have a minimum range as well as a maximum. I was watching some people doing a lvl4 mission yesterday and they took their ravens as close to the NPCs as they could and were 'insta-torping'. Even though I use missiles, etc... I think its ridiculous that people can do this and not sustain any damage to their own ships at all!!! Just like in reality you should not be able to fire at enemies once they are within a minimum range. This would also add a new tactical element to the game with fast frigates, cruisers etc... trying to rush Ravens and other torp totting BSs in order to get under minimum torp range. It would also mean that BS pilots would have to think about defence far more just in case some frigates/cruisers got under this minimum range. It would also mean that in fleet battles you would have to be careful in case you do spash damage to your allies. ________________________________________________ Stop Whining!!! Level Superiority
Sinn Adraelia	Posted - 2005.03.17 13:17:00 - [407] I have to agree with this last post about the torp factor i have witnessed on too many occations Raven pilots torping the hell out of things with no reprecussions on themselves at point blank range.and splash damage to even allied ships is a very realistic aspect to the game.as for minimum range well let the torp pilot nuke himself also just gives the long rangers a shorter kill. But to be fair i posted in the Dev Blog on the ammo types already so i will leave it there.
Arondor	Posted - 2005.03.17 14:02:00 - [408] I believe splash damage was tested if not in game for awhile.. The potential down sides and/or exploits here are huge.. ir torps near gate camps? oh wait you damaged the gate and or concord... insta death. Also it would make torps useless in fleet or group battles if you were using frigates or cruisers to orbit and lock down targets
Sandra IV	Posted - 2005.03.17 16:52:00 - [409] what you destroy the laser once again now ? Who hired him ? He is a Minmatar worst kind too dont touch my Lasers ..
Malena VXXI	Posted - 2005.03.17 16:56:00 - [410] Edited by: Malena VXXI on 17/03/2005 16:56:56 I been ¦there and tested the new settings in the test server its not god. Miner \| Trader

Sinn Adraelia	Posted - 2005.03.17 22:54:00 - [411] Originally by: Arondor I believe splash damage was tested if not in game for awhile.. The potential down sides and/or exploits here are huge.. ir torps near gate camps? oh wait you damaged the gate and or concord... insta death. Also it would make torps useless in fleet or group battles if you were using frigates or cruisers to orbit and lock down targets Sounds to me like gate camping is a bad idea then or everyone needs to rethink the use of torps on gates. If a warp bubble is setup right you can avoid splash on the gate and still catch your targets I know someone had one setup just perfect 125k from the gate and yes it ripped me out of warp to a dead stop and of course my ship was dead long before i even saw my attackers. So torp Splash is still a feasable use plus they will do most of their damage at point of impact and less damage as it spreads out but then i am not sure if the programming for such an effect has ever been written but it is possible. Just a thought it is but one can stay a safe distance out from a target and be just missed by torp splash if it is tested well the ranges at which frigates fight is well great enough to avoid damage with the new EW systems coming into play.
Mitram	Posted - 2005.03.18 19:46:00 - [412] WTF Why were the crystals even more nerfed ?? Remember you are nerfing all lasers not only the pulse lasers. MF = 5.5% nerf Gamma = 8.5% nerf Xray = 4.8% nerf Ultra = 5.5% nerf Infra = 0% nerf Micro = 5% nerf Radio = 28.5% nerf This is all damage against armor. Who cares about shields. Eventually you have to burn through the armor. This sucks big time. Didn't you want to nerf pulse lasers? You just made lasers obsolete again ...
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.18 20:23:00 - [413] Originally by: Mitram WTF Why were the crystals even more nerfed ?? Remember you are nerfing all lasers not only the pulse lasers. MF = 5.5% nerf Gamma = 8.5% nerf Xray = 4.8% nerf Ultra = 5.5% nerf Infra = 0% nerf Micro = 5% nerf Radio = 28.5% nerf This is all damage against armor. Who cares about shields. Eventually you have to burn through the armor. This sucks big time. Didn't you want to nerf pulse lasers? You just made lasers obsolete again ... Yep. Most ships in eve are untanked so this is a reduction to normalized damage. In addition to this, it's a bonus to minmatar tech 2 resistance which is by fact, already unbalanced. ________________________________________________________
Mitram	Posted - 2005.03.18 21:05:00 - [414] I expect to see a boost of at least 4% for all beam lasers to compensate the pulse laser nerf before this patch goes online.
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.19 13:46:00 - [415] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Mitram WTF Why were the crystals even more nerfed ?? Remember you are nerfing all lasers not only the pulse lasers. MF = 5.5% nerf Gamma = 8.5% nerf Xray = 4.8% nerf Ultra = 5.5% nerf Infra = 0% nerf Micro = 5% nerf Radio = 28.5% nerf This is all damage against armor. Who cares about shields. Eventually you have to burn through the armor. This sucks big time. Didn't you want to nerf pulse lasers? You just made lasers obsolete again ... Yep. Most ships in eve are untanked so this is a reduction to normalized damage. In addition to this, it's a bonus to minmatar tech 2 resistance which is by fact, already unbalanced.
1FSTCAT	Posted - 2005.03.19 13:53:00 - [416] goodbye lasers time to drag out the projectile turrets I had fitted to my apoc again and kiss 3 months of skill training away
Hobbsalong	Posted - 2005.03.19 21:02:00 - [417] Well I'm glad I trained minnie BS and Amarr ships to the same level and then decided to go and train some intys/assaults. So, I guess I will be ditching my apoc for the tempest. Apoc ofcourse will come handy to get the Zyd so I can actually purchase the temp. I am poor at the moment.
Warnings	Posted - 2005.03.19 21:06:00 - [418] Edited by: Warnings on 19/03/2005 21:04:28 My skill : here My avg. dmg VS NPC : here It's on TQ with mega pulse T2 and my skill with radio L and multifrequency L You think which this damage are too important ???
Hobbsalong	Posted - 2005.03.19 21:13:00 - [419] Warnings you carebear... 45K in industry. If anything you should have blacked that out.
Messerschmitt facility	Posted - 2005.03.20 01:49:00 - [420] Especialy with the ammo damamage changes lasers will be the suckest weapons. It is imposible to kill the minmatar T2 ships with those crazy rezistances especialy if you use the lenses that base very much on EM. And dont forget about ship bonuses that all other race got for damage and stuff while amarr only bonus is capacitor enhancement because theyr heavy battle with the capacitor consumtion. _________________________________ A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...



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