EVE Search - OMG Pulse Laser Nerf

All Channels

Ships and Modules

OMG Pulse Laser Nerf

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 21 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Conmen	Posted - 2005.03.04 05:02:00 - [211] in ship skills ffs lmao this is a joke showing these graph like they mean anything without the ship skills WE ARE THE UBER LEET !TH CENTURY RP CORP !THCENTURY STYLE BABY. THANK YOU SHEEDZOR FOR THIS SIG GET PREPARED EVE TO BE WTFOWN
Hawk Firestorm	Posted - 2005.03.04 07:08:00 - [212] All turrets exhibit probs to some degree, and that problem is the tracking system itself it isn't practical, isn't point and shoot and is non user friendly.
Kronarty	Posted - 2005.03.04 07:18:00 - [213] Originally by: Moneta Originally by: Kronarty Originally by: CCP Hammer Just to clear up any confusion the beam lasers are not getting changed at all. Errr, yes they are being changed through the changes in crystals. As usual CCP changes too many things at once. Why not nerf the megapulses and leave ammo as it is and see how it works? Or change ammo and leave the pulses as they are and see how it works? Is it that hard to have these changes spread over time instead of all applied at the same time? Small progressive changes ftw. THERE ARE NO CHANGES IN RANGE TO CRYSTALS ! READ !!!! If anyone should whine about ammo changes, its'the projectile and hybrids people, they ahvent got any options after this then -50% range, 0% range or +50% range. Crystals still cover everything form -50% to +60% and in steps in between. the 30% range dchange is to PULSE LASER TURRETS, not crystals. Damn amarrians, and they say minmatars have trouble getting literate Did I mention anything about RANGE? Look: Crystals are changed-> Beams use crystals-> Beams are changed. That is all I said. I did not say I thought the changes were good or bad, ALL I SAID is that changes should be done step by step, not all at a time. Perhaps it is you who should read things better.
Mirage swe	Posted - 2005.03.04 07:52:00 - [214] Originally by: CCP Hammer Just to clear up any confusion the beam lasers are not getting changed at all. They are reducing optimal 28% on Pulse lasers, damage and range on Radio crystals. Thats all.
S'Daria	Posted - 2005.03.04 08:24:00 - [215] It would be nice if the game could calculate these graphs for us including all ship bonuses and skills. If we can do it for the market why not for a fitted gun?
mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.04 08:28:00 - [216] Originally by: Kronarty Look: Crystals are changed-> Beams use crystals-> Beams are changed. Actually after looking at the dev blog some more, Radio crystals actually got an increase in range, as did MW and Infrared. Slight decreases in damage as well. So Beams will have a bit longer ranges now, but slightly reduced damage using Radio. Switch to MicroWave and you've got close to same range as old Radio and very little less damage.
Citizen Angstrom	Posted - 2005.03.04 08:43:00 - [217] Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Kronarty Look: Crystals are changed-> Beams use crystals-> Beams are changed. Actually after looking at the dev blog some more, Radio crystals actually got an increase in range, as did MW and Infrared. Slight decreases in damage as well. So Beams will have a bit longer ranges now, but slightly reduced damage using Radio. Switch to MicroWave and you've got close to same range as old Radio and very little less damage. ...But, as I understood Hammer's post, the reasons for the tinkering were to nerf the too-powerful Pulse lasers? With an implication that the Gank-a-Geddon was at fault? Why reduce the lasers across the board? It is disingenuous to say that beam lasers are not being nerfed as well as pulses, given the laser crystal nerf. I agree with several previous posters: change one thing at a time. Do the pulse nerf first, then consider ammo changes/nerf to lasers later. On a side note, amusingly enough, I own three BS currently: a Raven, an Apoc, and a Geddon (no, I don't gank, I am a carebear and proud of it). So... these proposed changes (missiles are up for the nerf bat next, right?) are going to hurt me bad...
mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.04 09:00:00 - [218] Edited by: mahhy on 04/03/2005 09:00:33 Originally by: Citizen Angstrom ...But, as I understood Hammer's post, the reasons for the tinkering were to nerf the too-powerful Pulse lasers? With an implication that the Gank-a-Geddon was at fault? Why reduce the lasers across the board? It is disingenuous to say that beam lasers are not being nerfed as well as pulses, given the laser crystal nerf. I agree with several previous posters: change one thing at a time. Do the pulse nerf first, then consider ammo changes/nerf to lasers later. The PULSES got a range reduction. Thats it. The Radio, MW and Infrared crystals got a range INCREASE and a slight damage decrease. The damage decrease is most notable on the Radio crystal, BUT now the Radio doesn't do anymore overall damage than any other longest range ammo. Thats fair. Originally by: Citizen Angstrom On a side note, amusingly enough, I own three BS currently: a Raven, an Apoc, and a Geddon (no, I don't gank, I am a carebear and proud of it). So... these proposed changes (missiles are up for the nerf bat next, right?) are going to hurt me bad... I'm sorry, but if you're a carebear I'm guessing you don't PvP a lot? If that's true I really don't see how this will hurt you at all. I've said it before, don't use Mega Pulse on the Apoc. Use Mega Beams or Tachs or even Dual Heavy Beams/Pulse. Mega Pulse are so much better on the Arma, and still will be for PvP.
Lucre	Posted - 2005.03.04 09:47:00 - [219] Originally by: Dred 'Morte As for pulses, thx, im thinking how the *** am i going to npc hunt after this...i guess i'll maximize my skills to lvl 5... get tech II, just like the poor minmatars did... My thoughts exactly. It's not noted in the text, but looking at the graphs the peak damage on the megapulse/multi is down from 18 to 15 - a 16% damage nerf in addition to the range losses. On an Apoc (we'll leave aside for now the impossibility of balancing a weapon when one BS using it has a RoF bonus and one doesn't) it's already hard to do enough damage to kill average Angel battleships. I've got 6 named pulse, 2 named siege with torps, a heat sink II and DoT skills at 4 or 5 and it takes a goodly while. (A long goodly while for a Seraphim!) Cut damage by 16% and narrow our optimal range band (which is already horrendous because of the lousy falloff) and it'll become a nightmare. Good job I can fly Ravens... Oh, and that first graph is totally misleading. Most Gallente and Minmatar ships get bonuses to DoT or RoF (and in some cases tracking). Amarr ships, with the admitted anomaly of the Geddon (which for consistency ought to have an armour resistance bonus), usually don't. You absolutely should not be attempting weapon balancing without considering ship bonuses. PLEASE RECONSIDER!
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.04 10:20:00 - [220] Originally by: Lucre Originally by: Dred 'Morte As for pulses, thx, im thinking how the *** am i going to npc hunt after this...i guess i'll maximize my skills to lvl 5... get tech II, just like the poor minmatars did... My thoughts exactly. It's not noted in the text, but looking at the graphs the peak damage on the megapulse/multi is down from 18 to 15 - a 16% damage nerf in addition to the range losses. On an Apoc (we'll leave aside for now the impossibility of balancing a weapon when one BS using it has a RoF bonus and one doesn't) it's already hard to do enough damage to kill average Angel battleships. I've got 6 named pulse, 2 named siege with torps, a heat sink II and DoT skills at 4 or 5 and it takes a goodly while. (A long goodly while for a Seraphim!) Cut damage by 16% and narrow our optimal range band (which is already horrendous because of the lousy falloff) and it'll become a nightmare. Good job I can fly Ravens... Oh, and that first graph is totally misleading. Most Gallente and Minmatar ships get bonuses to DoT or RoF (and in some cases tracking). Amarr ships, with the admitted anomaly of the Geddon (which for consistency ought to have an armour resistance bonus), usually don't. You absolutely should not be attempting weapon balancing without considering ship bonuses. PLEASE RECONSIDER! There is no damage nerf of 16%. What you see is the effect of tracking at shorter range. You compensate for that by using one of the newfangled 15km webbers or by accepting lower damage with a higher range crytal. Aside from that, megapulses being able to be run indefinately with one reapirer on auto and one staggered for NPC hunting already was imbalanced. Like other people in Eve (ignoring Raven which ahs itws own issues), you will have to either outtank and take insane time to kill, OR kill and not be able to tank forever. Or of course, fit 2 tracking comps in your emds and accept lesser ability to tank their damage forever. Your damage should go up by a bit from that tho. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Lucre	Posted - 2005.03.04 10:49:00 - [221] Originally by: Rod Blaine There is no damage nerf of 16%. What you see is the effect of tracking at shorter range. You compensate for that by using one of the newfangled 15km webbers or by accepting lower damage with a higher range crytal. If I fit a webber, I lose 20% cap recharge, which means for the same recharge having to lose a heatsink II which means this is a 22% damage nerf to 'standard' Apoc fits. Point stands. Damage is already marginal; now it'll be ludicrous. Originally by: Rod Blaine Aside from that, megapulses being able to be run indefinately with one reapirer on auto and one staggered for NPC hunting already was imbalanced. Like other people in Eve (ignoring Raven which ahs itws own issues), you will have to either outtank and take insane time to kill, OR kill and not be able to tank forever. Actually most of the Domi pilots I know have medium railgun turrets fitted. Which says to me the problem is not megapulses being uber but large railguns being underpowered. Making everything equally useless is indeed equitable but hardly sensible. Fix what's broken, not break what works! ISTM there's a good case for tracking boosts across the board. Beam lasers, railguns and artillery should IMHO be able to hit cruisers down to 20km or so; pulses should be able to hit them at 10km (and blasters at 5). Then beam lasers (and rails and artillery) might be more generally useful. (I can't speak for others, but the main reason I put pulses on my Apoc was that my beams couldn't kill npc cruisers before they were too close to hit and pulses could.) Whilst on pulses vs beams, IMHO pulses should trade lower range than beams for higher damage. Which might mean boosting their fitting/cap requirements to be comparable to beams but that'd be fair exchange for more damage. Plus that'd then give some point to dual beams/pulses, which really ought to be the weapons of choice for the Geddon as 350s ought to be for the Domi. And if that makes pulses do more damage than blasters, then by all means nudge up the blaster damage. Blasters should do more damage than pulses; if they don't, then give them some lovin'!
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.04 11:23:00 - [222] The geddon should really have to fit dual heavy pulses or beams. Other tier ones have to fit the weaker guns, why shouldn't the armageddon?
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.03.04 11:37:00 - [223] First they are too strong now everyones still moaning about a litle balancing??? optiaml has been shifted from 20km to 14km (with multifreq i think). I still think they should have even lower range like 12-10km. You guys have it good, poor us gallante with our 425mm rails and our 2.5k optimal blasters. Get a grip on yourself. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.03.04 11:38:00 - [224] Originally by: Selim The geddon should really have to fit dual heavy pulses or beams. Other tier ones have to fit the weaker guns, why shouldn't the armageddon? exactly, thx. Too powerful. Armas should be like other tier 1 bs's. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Juneau Daley	Posted - 2005.03.04 11:48:00 - [225] Heres one thing i 100% agree with, Most of my armarrian corp mates use the lowest because you can hit at stupid range and gank up close?? im like wtf i spend 2 minutes moving to a range where i can get a decent hit with my hybrids. oh and i know you said no promises but PLEASE look at hybrids... we hae hte closest range weapons with a average damage modifier and stupid cap useage... or we have long range with crappy falloff. :'( -- -- The last person alive in a war suffers the most for he has seen nothing but the deaths of the ones he loved.
fras	Posted - 2005.03.04 12:01:00 - [226] I had no idea dual pulses were being changed too. I went on the test server last night and my previous 14km+ range on dual light pulse II with radios has been dropped to 10km.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.04 12:03:00 - [227] Originally by: fras I had no idea dual pulses were being changed too. I went on the test server last night and my previous 14km+ range on dual light pulse II with radios has been dropped to 10km. 10km with Radio? Damnit. This is why I wanted Hammer to produce graphs using the DLP2. I wonder how good or bad my Crusader will be after this one
Shocky	Posted - 2005.03.04 12:29:00 - [228] Im gonna be putting projectiles on my apoc after this for npcing.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.03.04 12:35:00 - [229] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 04/03/2005 12:35:38 The DEVS have stated this game is about PvP. Why are we trying to balance guns across the board? Why not make the races/weapons mean something? Let Amarr be king of medium range, and every other laser gun that falls outside this mediocre. Lets make hybrids kind of short range, and every hybrid gun that falls outside this mediocre. Let Projectiles be the king of long range and every other proj. gun outside this be mediocre. Then balace missiles according to this, and not make them more uber or more sucky then all the guns. Give us some roles, I mean there is a story behind the guns/ship/races that seem to get nerfed every time there is a "so called balance" And to be honest I won't comment on the nerfs here, they seem ok but we all know things change from paper to tranquility. As for how these changes are being made, I don't honestly believe logic is behind it. Rod Blaine is right, change the armageddon's RoF bonus to a 5% amor whatever bonus ( hey I fly one I don't mind ) and kill laser cap use bonus back to 5%. Hell even 7% but 10% is too much. Lower cap use on Hybrids and add cpu to gallente ALL ships ( after all they are the supposed kings of ewar ), problem solved. It just doesn't make sense for Gallente to have crap CPU while their guns take more CPU. Hybrids should need more CPU so they can justify the high tracking on blasters. Don't just give them free cpu, but a gallente ship shouldn't have to fit a reactor AND a cpu to fit its guns when lasers, hybrids, and missile ships need no more than one for a good loadout. Lasers are not the problem, the armageddon is the problem and NO I have not been killed in space since 2003 so don't think this is whinage! -------------------- The Nest
Tegar'in	Posted - 2005.03.04 12:45:00 - [230] What she said above.
Kayinan Malrean	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:25:00 - [231] Originally by: mahhy Originally by: fras I had no idea dual pulses were being changed too. I went on the test server last night and my previous 14km+ range on dual light pulse II with radios has been dropped to 10km. 10km with Radio? Damnit. This is why I wanted Hammer to produce graphs using the DLP2. I wonder how good or bad my Crusader will be after this one Yuh, while everything else is being balanced, nobody seems to remember that half of the laser turrets are never, ever used for anything, because they are completely useless. I'd love to see those graphs as well, and reasoning behind how and why the crystal changes affect them the way they do. I mean, CCP must have taken this into account, rite?
Lucre	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:38:00 - [232] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Rod Blaine is right, change the armageddon's RoF bonus to a 5% amor whatever bonus ( hey I fly one I don't mind ) and kill laser cap use bonus back to 5%. Hell even 7% but 10% is too much. 5% was what we had before the last 'laser loving'. Back when Apocs were flying around with 425 rails because they did the same damage as megabeams for half the cap use. Let's not go back quite that far! 7% might be interesting, but if one can no longer tank indefinitely then I'd want a bit more damage to make up for that so I don't have to still shoot indefinitely... As for ship bonuses, they're there to tailor weapons to ships. Other races don't use projectiles because they don't have the multiple DoT bonuses that make them usable. Amarr don't fit railguns because they don't have that dmg bonus. Lasers should do more damage than other weapons but at a cap cost which is prohibitive if not for Amarr ship bonuses. So far so good, but what then is the Geddon's DoT bonus compensating for? That as you say is what needs fixing most. I quite like the idea of boosting Megapulse grid reqts so Geddons can't (easily) fit them, the RoF bonus then serving to bring dual heavies up to comparable DoT to megas on an Apoc. Or else just get rid of all the laser DoT bonuses from Amarr ships, so we can balance weapons for use on all of them.
Elaine Threepwood	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:39:00 - [233] Originally by: Shocky Im gonna be putting projectiles on my apoc after this for npcing. Lol, I'm not sure if you're serious here... but you realise projectiles are balanced so they are only any good on ships with TWO damage bonuses (eg Claw, Rupture, Tempest). Beam lasers aren't exactly getting a nerf to npcing since you don't need the ultra long ranges there . seriously thinks that may have been sarcasm
Shocky	Posted - 2005.03.04 13:50:00 - [234] Originally by: Elaine Threepwood Originally by: Shocky Im gonna be putting projectiles on my apoc after this for npcing. Lol, I'm not sure if you're serious here... but you realise projectiles are balanced so they are only any good on ships with TWO damage bonuses (eg Claw, Rupture, Tempest). Beam lasers aren't exactly getting a nerf to npcing since you don't need the ultra long ranges there . seriously thinks that may have been sarcasm I'm very serious, for npcing you dont really need uber dmg.. just enough to pop BS's fast enough and the advantage of projectiles is they use very little cap so apocs tank can be improved. Obviously I wouldnt usew them for pvp.
jaketheuntaki	Posted - 2005.03.04 14:16:00 - [235] Rather than change all ammo or crsytals at once make several advance ammo BPO's avaiable from research agents. By natural evolution WE will use the ones best suited us and there will be the diversity eveyone wants. EVE will evolve upwards not nerfwards
0seeker0	Posted - 2005.03.04 14:20:00 - [236] Originally by: S'Daria It would be nice if the game could calculate these graphs for us including all ship bonuses and skills. If we can do it for the market why not for a fitted gun? ?me slaps on a BIF SIGNATURE for this one :) Would be good if you could factor in that level 5 skill your thinking of training, to see the luverly difference 14 days makes before you do it too :) san. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
CB Cyrix	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:05:00 - [237] Its not a good thing, fare enough megapulse are strong, I agree, BUT they have reduced all pulse on the test server, aswell as reducing radio strength. Duel light pulse laser II with radio was 14km, is now 9km, thats terrible, plus the radio crystals now do alot less damage, so its all messed up. Just do -15% range for ONLY meg-pulse, and +30% strength, +60% fall off for blasters, and +55% tracking for rails, and then LEAVE LASERS ALONE!!!! This makes the mean-average of each race equal for turrets. I cant be bothered with all this turret changes anymore, im gonna get me a scorp/raven, coz whatever I pick gets nurfed. Now its ANOTHER lot of skills trained for nothing, skills take long enough to do- now i gotta do it all again for a different race, im extreamly upset, but even if I went to scorps/ravens, elect warfare is also being nerfed so its totally useless. Whats the point in playing eve now, if these changes (in the test server) go ahead me and many of my mates are leaving eve and off to World of WarcraftÖ.
Bunny Wunny	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:13:00 - [238] TBH blasters are supposed to be the best damage out of any guns, yet the lazers have better range and damage. whats with that?
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:13:00 - [239] I've had a look on the test server and it seems that every single pulse laser has had its optimal dropped. Can someone confirm this for me? I'm sure this can't be right. I know megapulse lasers were a problem but come on..... gank setup focused pulse mallers been a real problem of late? I don't even care about the crystal changes, all that will happen is that people will start to fit EM hardeners for armour tanking. Not that it matters that much to me because Ushra Khan use them anyway.
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2005.03.04 15:14:00 - [240] Pulses have to much range with their tracking. period. They are close version of lasers, like autocannons are close version of projectiles and blasters are close version of hybrids, not a medium range gun. And -28% percent of range isn't THAT much... they'll still have the best range of all close range guns by far.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 21 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.