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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Pandi V
LowProfile
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 19:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Looks pretty awesome Veritas, go buy yourself some Exotic Dancers on my account!
Would still wish the UI and camera didn't have to slow down as well, so that only the actual ships and weapons moved slower while you could still interact normally with the interface.
Oh and more videos like this please! Seeing a good looking guy with an awesome beard talking about new features can melt the heart of even the most bitter vet! Alternatively you could simply record one of your female co-workers (or Manifest) reading the devblogs aloud.... mm yes that should do |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
24
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
^
Correct, the main purpose of this is not to hide lag, but to ensure that when the system is lagging things still happen in the correct order. Which is not what happens now.
Also, I am assuming that the demo was running either completely on the devs own computer, or a lower spec test server. The Tranquility server should be able to handle much more load before having to resort to this especially on a reinforced node. (Unless I am completely wrong about just how much load a drake blob can add to the server. Stupid missiles.)
Last thing: I do not often run into fights of more than about 40 V 150 (We like to go poke test space occasionally and they don't leave POSes with less than that to counter our AHAC fleets) so I am not to sure exactly how much this will affect me. I am curious how ever, if this will help counter the situation where modules set to active while lock is still being achieved fail to active for several seconds after the target is locked.
This has been very annoying while flying a RSBed back tackle ship, as nearly every time you manage to get a lock on a cloaky, bubble immune T3, they just warp out anyway thanks to module lag. Nothing worse than seeing the target box come up, yelling point, and then seeing it warp off anyway... |
leich
Sad Panda'z Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
1
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote:^
Correct, the main purpose of this is not to hide lag, but to ensure that when the system is lagging things still happen in the correct order. Which is not what happens now.
Also, I am assuming that the demo was running either completely on the devs own computer, or a lower spec test server. The Tranquility server should be able to handle much more load before having to resort to this especially on a reinforced node. (Unless I am completely wrong about just how much load a drake blob can add to the server. Stupid missiles.)
Last thing: I do not often run into fights of more than about 40 V 150 (We like to go poke test space occasionally and they don't leave POSes with less than that to counter our AHAC fleets) so I am not to sure exactly how much this will affect me. I am curious how ever, if this will help counter the situation where modules set to active while lock is still being achieved fail to active for several seconds after the target is locked.
This has been very annoying while flying a RSBed back tackle ship, as nearly every time you manage to get a lock on a cloaky, bubble immune T3, they just warp out anyway thanks to module lag. Nothing worse than seeing the target box come up, yelling point, and then seeing it warp off anyway...
Pro Tip dont call point untill you see it show up in your log! |
Kyoko Sakoda
Veto. Veto Corp
3
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Is there any way to keep the frame rate of the scene and the UI elements when dilation is on? The server may perform better under these conditions, but it doesn't look very visually pleasing, and that's not the way I prefer to play. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
177
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
One video shows more than 1000 words.
Looks great, works great, solves many problems,doesn't break the game, isn't just eye candy. Well done, 10/10.
keep up the good work, grey Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
- Keep the slow(er) moving target indicator - It's a nice touch. - Don't touch the camera! Seriously... - The TD indicator needs some work, so it fits with the rest of the UI look&feel. Perhaps integrate it into the current HUD somehow (extra ring or whatever)
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
8
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
If possible can we have a ghosted grey and in the background normal-speed target spin on the target indicators behind the new slower spin I think that would visually make it neat and give some sort of indication on how actually slower the game is in a more aquired sense I think it was.
Camera speed I disagree with, when you adrenal rush you typically are more sensitive to all stimuli thus if anything camera should move faster but it defaultingly moves fast enough as it is.
Also we do wished you demoed the module clocks. Also is the load on the thin clients just the same if they decided that hey I want 7 individual launchers spaced one second part on 7 second launchers as to opposed to the cluster group fire? |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
99
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
ok some of you guys are not getting the point of this system. this is the last gasp mechanic for the server to keep the game playable when all other optimizations fail (and they will - every time CCP ups the ability of the game to handle players on a node, we just cram more players in).
right now without this system you get unresponsiveness, and disparate impact. some people are fully able to act - they can shoot, kill, main and destroy everything around them. other people never even load grid for hours. this is an ungraceful degradation of service quality
the time dilation system system replaces that mess above with a graceful degradation that equally affects all players - that is time slows down.
keep that in mind when you critique the behavior of the system. Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
0
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Can't wait for the breakages this will cause once it's rushed live onto tq, should be some hilarious fountains of tears
Also please make it so there's an option to NOT have the entire ui crap out by design at the very least, tbh taking a client that (I assume) can render camera movement etc perfectly normally and breaking it is just pure stupid, having the eggtimer popup and seeing module cycles slow is all the info I'd want personally, by all means have the judder effects an option for those that like it, just fix it for the rest of us BEFORE you release it not after months of forum bitching...
Also also you really need to get it down to system-wide only not entire node dilation, I can see the rage already once someone figures out which systems are sharing a node with some other alliances staging system/favourite ratting systems and proceeds to merrily lagbomb said node into oblivion. Don't say it won't happen because frankly it will simply down to it being so obvious |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:Really could do with getting rid of the camera and targetting effect (and in fact any UI) dilation. Whats the point of developing a system that will help beat lag if you then go out of your way to make everything still look like its lagged to hell?
I dunno about you but stuttery cameras and stuff are just going to irritate the hell out o fme.
It's not there to defeat lag, it's there to make everyone lag equally rather than having a few people with nothing and a few who can't do a thing.
Ui lag is part of lag. There's nothing that can be done about it.
leich wrote:From what my guys are saying on TS.
People really dont like the UI slowing Down. We Prefer the Idea of Hiding the Lag we knows its there were being told by the indicater it;s there we dont want our UI showing it aswell.
Hope this helps.
You don't speak for anyone but yourself, so please try to avoid using "we" in your comments. |
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Di Mulle
8
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shamrock1 wrote:I do not approve! How are you supposed to make real time target calls when the server it self is slowed? How is a logi pilot supposed to rep the members of its fleet when time is slowed?
Exactly the same as before, just in a more predictable way, which is essence of TD.
CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote: Ui lag is part of lag. There's nothing that can be done about it.
Err no.
How fast you can, say, move your camera is utterly disconnected from the state of the server (it burning to a cinder or not)
*Your* GFX might not be able to handle everything shown on screen - Thus starting to stutter.
But the two are completely disconnected.
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leich
Sad Panda'z Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:bldyannoyed wrote:Really could do with getting rid of the camera and targetting effect (and in fact any UI) dilation. Whats the point of developing a system that will help beat lag if you then go out of your way to make everything still look like its lagged to hell?
I dunno about you but stuttery cameras and stuff are just going to irritate the hell out o fme. It's not there to defeat lag, it's there to make everyone lag equally rather than having a few people with nothing and a few who can't do a thing. Ui lag is part of lag. There's nothing that can be done about it. leich wrote:From what my guys are saying on TS.
People really dont like the UI slowing Down. We Prefer the Idea of Hiding the Lag we knows its there were being told by the indicater it;s there we dont want our UI showing it aswell.
Hope this helps. You don't speak for anyone but yourself, so please try to avoid using "we" in your comments. |
Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
154
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
all HUD and UI animation should really run at unchanged speed. The game simulation, like explosions etc should be dialated of course.
But dilating UI is unnecessary and will cause *unnecessary* bad perceived game performance. Its not about hiding dialation, its just to get the best out of it. You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Junior Frog
Jump Frog
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 20:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'm curious about the time disjunct of dilation being used advantageously. For example, in a large fleet battle, podded characters can appear outside the dilated area and then return to the fight. Inside the battle system it will appear as if only a very short time has passed since the pilot was killed. Any information on how time dilation is integrated into the rest of the EVE clock? |
Jonathan Priest
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Junior Frog wrote:I'm curious about the time disjunct of dilation being used advantageously. For example, in a large fleet battle, podded characters can appear outside the dilated area and then return to the fight. Inside the battle system it will appear as if only a very short time has passed since the pilot was killed. Any information on how time dilation is integrated into the rest of the EVE clock?
Large fleet battles happen slowly anyways so people have plenty of time to reship and get back. And it's not a bad thing. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
48
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Junior Frog wrote:I'm curious about the time disjunct of dilation being used advantageously. For example, in a large fleet battle, podded characters can appear outside the dilated area and then return to the fight. Inside the battle system it will appear as if only a very short time has passed since the pilot was killed. Any information on how time dilation is integrated into the rest of the EVE clock?
Remember thats what happens now with a lagged out fight. TiDi does not really give an advantage to the returning pilot comared to the present situation with lag, it just makes it fair for everyone in the fight.
Also, if you request a dedicated node for a big fight, then only the one solar system on that node will see TiDi.
CCP Veritas: any possibility of getting a number for the little TiDi level indicator, otherwise known as Gamma? Starting at 100% and dropping as things slow? Also the stuttering is sort of annoying. And if Gamma got down to 10% or 5%, the slowing of the UI panning or typing would be a major annoyance.
Other than that looks really nice. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
48
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jonathan Priest wrote:
Large fleet battles happen slowly anyways so people have plenty of time to reship and get back. And it's not a bad thing.
Not only that, but the returning pilot will not be looking at a black screen for 5 minutes after jumping in, only to have it replaced by a view of his new clone. He will be able to contribute to the fight. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Darirol
Cold Steel Evolution Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
that video is not such a great eye candy, but as a 0.0 grunt i cant wait to see this going live.
:thumbsup: |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
85
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Veritas: any possibility of getting a number for the little TiDi level indicator, otherwise known as Gamma? Starting at 100% and dropping as things slow? Also the stuttering is sort of annoying. And if Gamma got down to 10% or 5%, the slowing of the UI panning or typing would be a major annoyance.
There is a tooltip when hovered over on the latest internal build. I still think you're the only one calling it Gamma though
Typing doesn't get slowed down, and, client performance willing, things are still smooth. The client in this video was struggling a bit due to ZOMG MISSILES while also being Frapsed ><
The camera speed slowing down does get pretty unwieldy down in the 15-10% range. I'm going to see if I can sanely decouple it, since feedback seems pretty united there...we'll see how good my code-fu is. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software |
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
49
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Veritas: any possibility of getting a number for the little TiDi level indicator, otherwise known as Gamma? Starting at 100% and dropping as things slow? Also the stuttering is sort of annoying. And if Gamma got down to 10% or 5%, the slowing of the UI panning or typing would be a major annoyance. There is a tooltip when hovered over on the latest internal build. I still think you're the only one calling it Gamma though Typing doesn't get slowed down, and, client performance willing, things are still smooth. The client in this video was struggling a bit due to ZOMG MISSILES while also being Frapsed >< The camera speed slowing down does get pretty unwieldy down in the 15-10% range. I'm going to see if I can sanely decouple it, since feedback seems pretty united there...we'll see how good my code-fu is.
With time dilation i was under the impression that fights with 200, 300, 500, 1000 people would go as smooth (FPS wise) as fights with.. you know.. 20, 30, 50 or 100 but it would be in slow-motion as in your armor repairer takes 100 seconds to cycle instead of 10, but the enemies gun will also take 100 seconds to cycle instead of 10.
About effects, i can have very smooth FPS with over 100 NPC RATS shooting me with lasers so the effects are the same as players shooting lasers i suppose.
So in that video demonstration of yours.. if you had turned off missiles, turret effects, brackets etc and didn't had fraps turned on, time would dilate but would the FPS remain the same? Or would it drop to 10 or 12 like it was in the video (seemed 10 or 12..)? Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote: The camera speed slowing down does get pretty unwieldy down in the 15-10% range. I'm going to see if I can sanely decouple it, since feedback seems pretty united there...we'll see how good my code-fu is.
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Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
43
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Like most others I'd also like to see the UI not affected by the slowdown. And as someone said, in the ideal world it would be completely disconnected from the server state and internal update loop.
However, I'm pretty sure the client is so crappily coded that it in fact has a connection between the UI updating and the update loop anyway. For example you see that the entire client freeze every time you stack a large amount of stuff, or when the overview updates. Had the UI been standalone this wouldn't happen. Therefore CCP, in their quest to get as much use with as little change as possible, has simply changed the clock (update loop) in the dilated systems, and this carries over to the client and it's internal update loop which then also decreases framerate, unfortunately.
In my opinion it would have been much better with a client coded in C++ with a separate thread for the UI. But now it's in python (which sucks at multithreading) and we probably have to live with that and the connected freezes and update loop dependency during a foreseeable future. |
leich
Sad Panda'z Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:[quote=Vincent Athena]CCP Veritas: The camera speed slowing down does get pretty unwieldy down in the 15-10% range. I'm going to see if I can sanely decouple it, since feedback seems pretty united there...we'll see how good my code-fu is.
Im sure you have a black belt in code-fu so this will be no problem at all :)
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Ur235
Mind Games. 0ccupational Hazzard
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
I like it couldnt really care less if the camera is slowed down and the ui is also slowed down, as long as what i shoot gets hit then im fine with all the other things being slowed down
We know its not the perfect soloution to it but it will certainly help hopefully |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
11
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote: The camera speed slowing down does get pretty unwieldy down in the 15-10% range. I'm going to see if I can sanely decouple it, since feedback seems pretty united there...we'll see how good my code-fu is.
I'm gonna add my voice to the din saying that I'd also appreciate this change if you can pull it off. Camera moving lag is generally an indication of client lag instead of server lag, so I think it would feel unintuitive to many players as a signal that time is slowed. |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
25
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Posted - 2011.09.30 21:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
leich wrote: Pro Tip dont call point untill you see it show up in your log!
1. In these situations, it is quite common for the warp scram notification to come up in your log anyway, even though the target has already warped off.
2. If you are wasting screen space, and information scanning time on the log, you are doing it wrong.
3. I of course did not literally mean that everyone calls out point over coms every time this happens. Forgive the small bit of artistic license used to convey the sense of disappointment missing a target snag thanks to module lag causes.
4. When are you guys going to go back to missioning in carriers so we can kill them with a couple man BC gang again? |
leich
Sad Panda'z Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
2
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Posted - 2011.09.30 22:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
Umad?
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Mirei Jun
Right to Rule THE UNTHINKABLES
0
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Posted - 2011.09.30 22:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
Something to actually be excited about in Eve! This is innovation -not some avatars in a room.
Things have come a long way already since the days where Eve was unplayable in large fleet battles. This will improve them even more.
For those complaining over the fact this affects an entire node, and not just particular systems:
Major fleet lag affects entire nodes. You would know this had you ever been involved in skirmish fights on the same node a large fleet battle was occurring. Therefore it is reasonable and required to slow down the entire slice of virtual space.
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Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.09.30 22:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
I approve of this product and/or service.
I'll add my voice to the 'dont-slow-down-the-UI' crowd though. For what its worth, I dont mind the targeting spinny-triangly-square thing rotating slower, but it would be better if the camera and everything else worked at normal speed.
With regards to this, are things like the speed of the right-click pop-up menu affected by TiDi? |
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