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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 93 post(s) |
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CCP Gargant
C C P C C P Alliance
155
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Posted - 2012.10.15 11:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dearest forum posters,
Since I joined the Community Team, I have become increasingly vested in the state of these forums of ours. For a desirable environment to exist here there needs to be a place to discuss our rules and the actions we take when those rules are broken.
There is a difference between discussing moderation in a general sense and discussing specific instances of moderation. The latter type should always be petitioned to us in the Community Team by selecting the Other Issues GÇô Community category. This will allow CCP staff to review what has occurred and hopefully answer any questions that might have been raised by moderation actions. The URL to file petitions is the following:
https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/MyPetitions.aspx
The former type needs to have a special place where it can be discussed by us all. While it is true that we GÇÿownGÇÖ these forums, in the sense that we make the rules and ultimately control what content is on them, we still need to maintain some level of transparency so that we promote a positive environment to discuss things. You, the posters, then make these forums what they are. We donGÇÖt want to drive this place into the ground with explosive moderation that leaves no one alive.
In short, a place to discuss the broad strokes and general outlines of our moderation methods is required. That place shall be this thread. We will be keeping an eye on it and we would appreciate if all matters regarding the broad strokes of our moderation actions be contained to this thread. CCP Gargant | Community Representative |
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Mai Khumm
Omen Industries -Entropy-
290
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Posted - 2012.10.15 13:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
First! Since EVE will be pay to win very soon. --> 65 Mil SP subcap pilot/45 Mil SP Caldari-Indy Cap pilot looking for Powerbloc Coalition... |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
188
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Posted - 2012.10.15 13:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Warning points for users like this please. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
721
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Posted - 2012.10.15 13:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
IB4L Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1328
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Posted - 2012.10.15 13:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Warning points for users like this please.
Especially for the CCP posters who have an unfair advantage in getting in first.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
2307
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Posted - 2012.10.15 14:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Warning points for users like this please. Especially for the CCP posters who have an unfair advantage in getting in first.
This will be addressed, but as we we do not discuss warnings and specific moderation actions on our forum, we cannot comment further on this.
Other off topic posts were removed. Please stay on topic and constructive, thank you.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
952
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Posted - 2012.10.15 14:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Warning points for users like this please. Especially for the CCP posters who have an unfair advantage in getting in first.
I don't have an issue with any of this. It adds to the atmosphere of playfulness and reminds us Devs are human. I crack a smile when this happens.
If I have to tell you one thing about Forum Moderation, is to remember you are fostering a community, and in community there is more than serious business. People have to have the fundamental abilities to play and enjoy themselves, otherwise you kill everything that is wholesome about the human condition. We have enough **** to deal with on a daily basis to not be told we're bad people, bad humans, bad anything just because we come here for a little...
GASP
Fun. Where I am. |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 14:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well, to start with it would help if a thread about forum moderation (in general) actually listed the complete set of rules and guidelines supposedly used by the CCP and ISD moderators. For example, at the moment, based on personal observation of actual moderator actions, apparently it is ok to lock threads as duplicate without including a reference to the duplicated thread, or to provide a reference to the duplicated thread which is itself locked. :facepalm:
Cites to the above behaviors: Locked as duplicate without reference to appropriate thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2040255#post2040255 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2039860#post2039860
Locked as duplicate, directing user to another locked thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2039308#post2039308
(N.B. I already reported these posts a few days ago hoping they would be fixed.)
MDD |
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ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
193
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Posted - 2012.10.15 14:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hi MDD,
We have noticed this reports and i have sent out a reminder to the team to actually link to other threads when closing one for being a duplicate.
Locking and linking to a locked thread is a no go and was somehow done in error which of course i apologize for.
Keep using the report system for such infos, we are watching it. ISD Eshtir Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
189
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:War Kitten wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Warning points for users like this please. Especially for the CCP posters who have an unfair advantage in getting in first. This will be addressed, but as we we do not discuss warnings and specific moderation actions on our forum, we cannot comment further on this. Other off topic posts were removed. Please stay on topic and constructive, thank you.
So why was my post removed? Because I gave the opinion that people who just post saying "First" and don't add anything to a discussion (in this case, what we should and should not moderate in general on the forum)?
It wasn't meant to be targeted at that individual poster, rather the idea that surely posts with "First" aren't helpful or needed. Warnings or deleting posts (or both) would be appropriate for first time offenders.
Of course if THIS is also discussing a specific moderation issue in your eyes I can always file a petition to get the answer, but I'd rather not as everyone has quoted my post anyway so I'm not too bothered about my point not being made. |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
ISD Eshtir wrote:Locking and linking to a locked thread is a no go and was somehow done in error which of course i apologize for. But you have to notice that the thread linked to was locked at a later date. Actually I had not noticed that the referenced thread was locked after the duplicate thread was locked. So Praetoxx if I've inadvertently and undeservedly painted you in an unflattering light, my apologies.
Eshtir, do you have any thoughts on how to avoid repeats of that sequence of events?
ISD Eshtir wrote:Keep using the report system for such infos, we are watching it. Good to know. Should I expect the reported posts to be corrected?
BTW, I don't want the original point of my post to be lost: Can we have, in this thread, a complete list of rules and guidelines which the moderators should be following? I say this because it is a bit hard to talk about moderation actions in general without that list, as I believe what would tend to happen is that absent the list, specific instances would be used (like I did above). Although I believe I was appropriately neutral and "meta" in this instance, you and both know that is highly unlikely to be the rule for other posters.
MDD |
Pandorium9
Pandorium Prime The CodeX Alliance
22
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
The system locks any thread that hasnGÇÖt had any replies in the last 90 days, but I see some posts being locked as necro.
At what point is it considered a necro post?
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ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
194
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:ISD Eshtir wrote:Locking and linking to a locked thread is a no go and was somehow done in error which of course i apologize for. But you have to notice that the thread linked to was locked at a later date. Actually I had not noticed that the referenced thread was locked after the duplicate thread was locked. So Praetoxx if I've inadvertently and undeservedly painted you in an unflattering light, my apologies. Eshtir, do you have any thoughts on how to avoid repeats of that sequence of events? ISD Eshtir wrote:Keep using the report system for such infos, we are watching it. Good to know. Should I expect the reported posts to be corrected? BTW, I don't want the original point of my post to be lost: Can we have, in this thread, a complete list of rules and guidelines which the moderators should be following? I say this because it is a bit hard to talk about moderation actions in general without that list, as I believe what would tend to happen is that absent the list, specific instances would be used (like I did above). Although I believe I was appropriately neutral and "meta" in this instance, you and both know that is highly unlikely to be the rule for other posters. MDD
Okay here we go.
We have to face it that errors will happen, i can not making promises that it wont happen again. But rather i will say that as a lead i have feedback function within the team. So evaluation of certain actions and providing feedback for the team is vital here. This means that mails are get sent out to the whole team, explaining the situation and offering a different approach. They might also end with the words "This is a policy".
I appreciate that you want to deepen the discussion with our internal guidlines and policies. First and above all, our most important tool set are the forum rules. The second tool set available to the team is a policy document which is bound to the NDA (that we as ISD have signed) and has therefor restricted access.
ISD Eshtir Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Gargant
C C P C C P Alliance
156
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: So why was my post removed? Because I gave the opinion that people who just post saying "First" and don't add anything to a discussion (in this case, what we should and should not moderate in general on the forum)?
It wasn't meant to be targeted at that individual poster, rather the idea that surely posts with "First" aren't helpful or needed. Warnings or deleting posts (or both) would be appropriate for first time offenders.
Of course if THIS is also discussing a specific moderation issue in your eyes I can always file a petition to get the answer, but I'd rather not as everyone has quoted my post anyway so I'm not too bothered about my point not being made.
Your point was very valid but Phantom simply wanted to have the discussion and conclusion covered in one post.
Pandorium9 wrote:The system locks any thread that hasnGÇÖt had any replies in the last 90 days, but I see some posts being locked as necro.
At what point is it considered a necro post?
Saying 'Bump' in a thread that has been inactive for 89 days does not contribute anything to the discussion. That is necroing and we don't like that. However, if someone wants to add something to a discussion that was going on 89 days ago it should not be locked. If that happens, it is a mistake and simply needs to be petitioned. We are only human and sometimes we make mistakes. CCP Gargant | Community Representative |
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
189
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: So why was my post removed?
Your point was very valid but Phantom simply wanted to have the discussion and conclusion covered in one post.
Fair enough!
Another minor gripe:
There are plenty of people in NPC corps posting in the COAD forums. Forum rules state this isn't allowed, are these posts being deleted and being warned (or their main being warned if they have used it to alt post)? If not does this need to start happening or does the rule need to change? |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
ISD Eshtir wrote:Okay here we go.
We have to face it that errors will happen, i can not making promises that it wont happen again. But rather i will say that as a lead i have feedback function within the team. So evaluation of certain actions and providing feedback for the team is vital here. This means that mails are get sent out to the whole team, explaining the situation and offering a different approach. They might also end with the words "This is a policy". Oy. Put your armor down; I'm not out for blood. I'm not so daft to think that extracting a promise of "never again" is likely or even worthwhile. I fully realize that moderation errors will continue to happen. I'm genuinely trying to have a conversation about what mechanics might help prevent a repeat of that sequence (because, as you acknowledge, a locked thread directing posters to another locked thread is undesirable). Perhaps I can ease your mind by throwing out the first obvious idea: before locking a thread, have the system report any other locked threads which refer (by URL) to the current thread. Obviously, this is predicated on the system having the ability to tell the moderator about those references. Obstacles: This ability probably doesn't currently exist, and it may not have enough importance behind it to get the manpower allocated to implement the ability. The automatic detection may not be foolproof. The moderators may fail to use such a report.
ISD Eshtir wrote:I appreciate that you want to deepen the discussion with our internal guidlines and policies. First and above all, our most important tool set are the forum rules. The second tool set available to the team is a policy document which is bound to the NDA (that we as ISD have signed) and has therefor restricted access. I will try to suppress my incredulity here; you're asking us to have a discussion of moderation in general without providing the current guidelines to discuss? Eshtir, I realize you are but a humble volunteer and this is not your decision to make. Please direct someone at CCP corporate (Gargant?) to look at this and re-evaluate whether keeping the current moderation guidelines under NDA is in the best interest.
MDD
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
371
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Posted - 2012.10.15 16:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Please can you reconsider the 'no linking to killboards' thing? When sharing killmails, users have a choice between posting a long, hard-to-read killmail, or posting a short link to an easy-to-read website. I don't see any extra harm in linking to eve-kill instead of, say, evenews24. Posts that are a hyperlink only are contentless posts anyway. |
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ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
194
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Posted - 2012.10.15 16:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:ISD Eshtir wrote:Okay here we go.
We have to face it that errors will happen, i can not making promises that it wont happen again. But rather i will say that as a lead i have feedback function within the team. So evaluation of certain actions and providing feedback for the team is vital here. This means that mails are get sent out to the whole team, explaining the situation and offering a different approach. They might also end with the words "This is a policy". Oy. Put your armor down; I'm not out for blood. I'm not so daft to think that extracting a promise of "never again" is likely or even worthwhile. I fully realize that moderation errors will continue to happen. I'm genuinely trying to have a conversation about what mechanics might help prevent a repeat of that sequence (because, as you acknowledge, a locked thread directing posters to another locked thread is undesirable). Perhaps I can ease your mind by throwing out the first obvious idea: before locking a thread, have the system report any other locked threads which refer (by URL) to the current thread. Obviously, this is predicated on the system having the ability to tell the moderator about those references. Obstacles: This ability probably doesn't currently exist, and it may not have enough importance behind it to get the manpower allocated to implement the ability. The automatic detection may not be foolproof. The moderators may fail to use such a report. ISD Eshtir wrote:I appreciate that you want to deepen the discussion with our internal guidlines and policies. First and above all, our most important tool set are the forum rules. The second tool set available to the team is a policy document which is bound to the NDA (that we as ISD have signed) and has therefor restricted access. I will try to suppress my incredulity here; you're asking us to have a discussion of moderation in general without providing the current guidelines to discuss? Eshtir, I realize you are but a humble volunteer and this is not your decision to make. Please direct someone at CCP corporate (Gargant?) to look at this and re-evaluate whether keeping the current moderation guidelines under NDA is in the best interest. MDD
No worries there. Im here for a very long time now and have been through much darker conversations.
Your idea sounds good, but if we lock a thread for being a duplicate one, we already know there is an existing one.
Regarding the policy document, the Community Team has it and it has their approval is all i can say for now. But you have my promise i will talk to CCP Gargant and the Volunteer Manager about this.
ISD Eshtir Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 16:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
ISD Eshtir wrote:No worries there. Im here for a very long time now and have been through much darker conversations. Your idea sounds good, but if we lock a thread for being a duplicate one, we already know there is an existing one. Regarding the policy document, the Community Team has it and it has their approval is all i can say for now. But you have my promise i will talk to CCP Gargant and the Volunteer Manager about this. Thanks. Just to be clear: I'm not asking for the entirety of the ISD policy document to be made public. Only the portions of it which refer to rules and guidelines for moderators' actions in the forums. It's difficult for us to make general comments about them when all we have are specific instances to cite.
MDD |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
329
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Posted - 2012.10.15 16:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: There are plenty of people in NPC corps posting in the COAD forums. Forum rules state this isn't allowed, are these posts being deleted and being warned (or their main being warned if they have used it to alt post)? If not does this need to start happening or does the rule need to change?
Hi,
Where we're aware of this, we do take the appropriate action.
If you see one we've missed, please use the report button and we'll take care of it as soon as possible.
Thanks. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Shandir
Indigo Archive
175
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Posted - 2012.10.15 17:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
What does the community team think of the somewhat prevalant use of racial, homophobic and anti-semetic slurs being used here?
There's something messed up about the fact that 'jewing' is a common enough way to refer to PvE as a whole, and '*-***' equates to "I disagree with *" (Presumably mods can see the censored word)
Obviously you can't police the open forums where these terms build up popularity, but you could apply sufficient discouragement to them being used here. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5162
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Posted - 2012.10.15 18:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:There are plenty of people in NPC corps posting in the COAD forums. Forum rules state this isn't allowed, are these posts being deleted and being warned (or their main being warned if they have used it to alt post)? If not does this need to start happening or does the rule need to change?
You can't post in CAOD if you're in an NPC corp, the forums won't let you. Either the posters were in a player corp at the time of posting and dropped since or the thread was moved from GD (something that is pretty annoying - NPC alt threads being moved to CAOD defeat the purpose of that rule)
Benny Ohu wrote:Please can you reconsider the 'no linking to killboards' thing? When sharing killmails, users have a choice between posting a long, hard-to-read killmail, or posting a short link to an easy-to-read website. I don't see any extra harm in linking to eve-kill instead of, say, evenews24. Posts that are a hyperlink only are contentless posts anyway.
Also, this. There is a huge difference between a post like "look, here are killboard links of titans blapping frigates, please keep saying that titans can't track frigates" in a thread about titan tracking and "Ahaha look at your horribly fit Hurricane lossmail here, look how terrible you are" in a thread where such a remark is totally unprompted. The first example can't possibly be trolling because it's on-topic, it isn't particularly meant to berate anybody, it adds to the discussion at hand and it's not like the dudes who lost the ships in those killmails are going to feel ~offended~ because somebody linked their lossmail.
To say that this has been an existing policy based on the "no trolling" rule is simply insulting our intelligence - up until recently, this rule was never enforced outside of IGS and C&P, and how can killboard links, in and of themselves, possibly constitute trolling? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2864
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Posted - 2012.10.15 19:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:ISD Eshtir wrote:No worries there. Im here for a very long time now and have been through much darker conversations. Your idea sounds good, but if we lock a thread for being a duplicate one, we already know there is an existing one. Regarding the policy document, the Community Team has it and it has their approval is all i can say for now. But you have my promise i will talk to CCP Gargant and the Volunteer Manager about this. Thanks. Just to be clear: I'm not asking for the entirety of the ISD policy document to be made public. Only the portions of it which refer to rules and guidelines for moderators' actions in the forums. It's difficult for us to make general comments about them when all we have are specific instances to cite. MDD
It's not a good idea in general to publish internal guidelines on how to handle the various rule violations. If that would answer all the questions and eliminate the grey areas, we'd totally do it. But in reality, going into too many specifics only tends to make things worse for everyone because of the endless complexity of human behavior and creativity. It's hard for us to internally define once and for all how to interpret every rule in the book for every scenario, so trying it clear it up for everyone will probably blow up the planet or something.
What we will do instead is to do our best to be consistent and fair, maintain good internal and external communication, and err on the side of leniency whenever we can without sending the wrong message.
P.s. Thanks for the needed reminder on posting URLs to existing threads when closing duplicates, appreciated 07
P.p.s. Here-¦s a picture of CCP Gargant after he heard something about the benefits of drinking and moderation CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 19:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:It's not a good idea in general to publish internal guidelines on how to handle the various rule violations. If that would answer all the questions and eliminate the grey areas, we'd totally do it. But in reality, going into too many specifics only tends to make things worse for everyone because of the endless complexity of human behavior and creativity. It's hard for us to internally define once and for all how to interpret every rule in the book for every scenario, so trying it clear it up for everyone will probably blow up the planet or something. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to reply, and I can imagine some aspects of what you describe. But I'm still leery of the wisdom of Gargant asking for "a place to discuss our rules and the actions we take when those rules are broken" in an environment that still has the "don't post about specific moderator actions" rule alongside the "we aren't going to tell you the rules" mindset. Just what, exactly, are we supposed to say?
But, I will take it as an act of faith that neither you guys (CCP hf) nor the ISD volunteers are going to be jerks. How very un-Eve-like. Heh.
So, on to another example.
First, disclaimer: I have a sense of humor. I am not some dour, pasty, resentful, emo kid. That said, I don't think it is necessary for ISD volunteers to be funny (or attempt) in the middle of a thread without any other content or purpose. Cites: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2040528#post2040528 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2040535#post2040535
"You (ISD volunteer) want to make a funny?" Sure, no problem. Do it as a normal player character, not as your moderator character. But don't go being part of the problem making completely off-topic posts as a moderator. (Note: I'm still in favor of little dabs of humor in the locking posts.)
CCP Guard wrote:P.p.s. Here-¦s a picture of CCP Gargant after he heard something about the benefits of drinking and moderation White wine? While computing? How gauche. Real Brogrammers drink beer at the keyboard. Tell Gargant "Son, I am disappoint."
MDD
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
330
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Posted - 2012.10.15 20:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hi MDD,
Just to stop you before you go very far with this.
As CCP Gargant stated, this thread is about the discussion of moderation in general, not specific cases. He's said quite clearly what you need to do, if you've got a problem with a specific case of moderation:
CCP Gargant wrote:There is a difference between discussing moderation in a general sense and discussing specific instances of moderation. The latter type should always be petitioned to us in the Community Team by selecting the Other Issues GÇô Community category. This will allow CCP staff to review what has occurred and hopefully answer any questions that might have been raised by moderation actions. The URL to file petitions is the following: https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/MyPetitions.aspx
ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 20:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi MDD,
Just to stop you before you go very far with this.
As CCP Gargant stated, this thread is about the discussion of moderation in general, not specific cases. He's said quite clearly what you need to do, if you've got a problem with a specific case of moderation: *snip* Suggesting that I have a problem with those two examples is rather overstating it. I'm using them as recent examples of cases where I believe the moderator persona has been abused. As far as I know there's no reason why those two ISD posts, or any others like them, couldn't have been made by normal player characters. The posts themselves aren't especially deserving of censure (as Gargant alluded: we should err on the side of under-moderating lest we nuke the forums).
The point which I failed to clearly state is that moderators should always remain mindful of the hat they wear. Perhaps there should be a policy that moderators ask themselves "is there a compelling reason that I should post this in the persona of a moderator?"
And BTW, this is exactly the knife's edge of the problem I was dancing around earlier: it's hard to discuss moderation in general without citing moderation specifics to support or refute one's claims.
MDD |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
330
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Posted - 2012.10.15 20:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hi,
Yes, we realise that - I was just concerned that you were going spend a long time writing a constructive post, based on specific posts.
As you may know, I'm a lead in the CCL team, my job is to coach existing members, train new members, be a sounding board for tricky problems and before ISD Eshtir and the Community team, to be a voice of authority.
From my perspective, I can tell you that we're encouraged to be communicative, friendly, transparent and funny when it's appropriate. After all, we would much rather our CCL staff to be posting rather than moderating. You'll note that many CCP staffers post with a certain amount of frivolity and we're encouraged to emulate that, to a certain point.
Our position is intended to be liaisons in the community more than it's custodians and the best way for us to achieve that is to be a part of the community.
The community team might have more to say about this, but as far as the day to day operations of the CCL team are concerned, that's how we like to do things.
Quote:*Let's not consider the absurd case of a ISD volunteer having no active normal player characters...
Indeed, you're not actually able to be a part of ISD without having an active account. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
81
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Posted - 2012.10.15 21:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Yes, we realise that - I was just concerned that you were going spend a long time writing a constructive post, based on specific posts. Why, one might get the impression you were implying my missives were long-winded and prone to unproductive diversions.
ISD Suvetar wrote:As you may know, I'm a lead in the CCL team, my job is to coach existing members, train new members, be a sounding board for tricky problems and before ISD Eshtir and the Community team, to be a voice of authority. Actually, I wasn't aware of that, but I'm glad to know now.
ISD Suvetar wrote:From my perspective, I can tell you that we're encouraged to be communicative, friendly, transparent and funny when it's appropriate. After all, we would much rather our CCL staff to be posting rather than moderating. I think you and I disagree on that last point. The ISD volunteers have (AFAIK) normal player characters with which to engage in non-moderator activities. The CCP staff, which you mention that you are encouraged to emulate, have less freedom to use normal player characters. And I do agree that the "communicative, friendly, transparent, and funny" are all worthy goals provided they are achieved within the confines of moderator activities.
ISD Suvetar wrote:Our position is intended to be liaisons in the community more than it's custodians and the best way for us to achieve that is to be a part of the community. I have a difficult time arguing against this point. Being part of the community does seem to be a worthy goal. But the most visible activities (AFAIK) of the forum moderator portion* of the ISD seems to be the locking, editing, and moving of threads, which to me sounds entirely like custodianship and not liaison. And while the people behind the ISD characters may be perfectly enjoyable folks to be around, when they use the ISD character in the forums as custodians, there are some attributes they really must have (trustworthy, impartial, communicative, merciful), and some attributes which may be useful but are not critical (friendly, funny), and some which are counter-productive (flippant).
MDD
*I'm vaguely aware that ISD may do things such as in-game chats. I'm not addressing those other activities here. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1433
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Posted - 2012.10.15 21:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Would it be possible to greatly increase the alive timer for the posts in Tech Lab. Currently you seem to have global 90 days inactivity lock, but in that specific forum at least I have threads which I am probably going to update on later date even the periods between the updates can be longer than the 90 days.
Examples:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6555&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8962&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75401&find=unread
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
330
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Posted - 2012.10.15 21:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:I think you and I disagree on that last point. The ISD volunteers have (AFAIK) normal player characters with which to engage in non-moderator activities. The CCP staff, which you mention that you are encouraged to emulate, have less freedom to use normal player characters. And I do agree that the "communicative, friendly, transparent, and funny" are all worthy goals provided they are achieved within the confines of moderator activities.
On this specific post; we certainly do have normal player characters, but we're not permitted to be using them 'on the job' so to speak. It's important to maintain detachment in that regard so we can't be accused of favouritism. It's also why we're not allowed to moderate posts that belong to or involve our character/s. corporation or alliance.
I was first involved in ISD in 2005, and this is the way it's been for all that time.
If you've not seen it, we held a seminar this weekend - this is the transcript. I like to think it's interesting reading! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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