tl;dr?

TL;DR



OMG I AM TRAPPED IN A PERMANENT WAR WITH A TOTALLY INACTIVE CORP WHICH MEANS, DESPITE THEM ALL BEING INACTIVE, I HAVE TO DISBAND MY CORP THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 10 YEARS AND IT IS CCP'S FAULT.

PS I CAN'T USE MY ENTER KEY


I hope that helps.

Just 2 questions why did you try and leave the alliance instead of just riding it out.
What was the point of entering the alliance to begin with.

Second if you are under a permanent war dec and nobody is active in the corp then why does it matter if you are at war or not.

I am a little confused at what you want CCP to do.
Oh and last what kind of time frame are we talking here.
Have you been at war for several months now or something ?

Because of this everlasting war the Romania Renegades corporation cannot join any allaince ......this is the game mechanics .... we cannot apply to any alliance while in war status ...in our case the happy endings alliance has began this war

how did an inactive corporation make your war mutual

seems you're lying here, buddy

They aren't inactive, they just haven't sent the ransom demand yet.

If no ransom it must be a predator.

If they are inactive how did they set the war mutual? Makes no sense bro. Anyway just pay them some of your isk mountain through a third party to drop the war, shouldn't be a problem for a rich man like yourself.

Btw its not a bug, ccp are deliberately trolling and seems to be working.

maybe this is just a speculation they made in such a way to block certain corps or alliance with these warss in the mutual ,,way``

I'll have to brush up on the mechanics involved in a mutual war dec, but if I remember correctly they need some improvement in regards to this specific issue. Perhaps instead of a mutual war dec being free instead both sides might pay a reduced fee (one that cannot be automatically paid)... which would help to keep totally inactive corps from pulling stuff like this. The defender would still have the option to lock in the aggressor, but would have to pay a modest fee for the privilege, as well as take responsibility for manually paying the fee.

I don't believe the issue is that they can't leave the alliance, the issue is that they didn't leave quickly enough and the war will follow them where ever they go.

You could simply try the surrender option and offer them some ISK.

If they are inactive and don't respond you are in no worse situation than now, if they accept it situation resolved. Nobody would think badly of you for taking that path to get out of a war with an inactive corp playing games like that.


I'll have to brush up on the mechanics involved in a mutual war dec, but if I remember correctly they need some improvement in regards to this specific issue. Perhaps instead of a mutual war dec being free instead both sides might pay a reduced fee (one that cannot be automatically paid)... which would help to keep totally inactive corps from pulling stuff like this. The defender would still have the option to lock in the aggressor, but would have to pay a modest fee for the privilege, as well as take responsibility for manually paying the fee.

Because of this everlasting war the Romania Renegades corporation cannot join any allaince ......this is the game mechanics .... we cannot apply to any alliance while in war status ...in our case the happy endings alliance has began this war

Although this war has not been started directly by the Romania Renegades corporation it seems that it will continue because of a fault of the organising committee of this game.

They're not totally inactive, the guy is lying. We know this because they were alert enough to see the war and make it mutual. He's trying to make excuses to get CCP to get him out of the situation rather than pay the ransom.

If they can join another alliance just the war carries with them, they should and deal with it, now I am starting to lose sympathy for OP.

Presumably, since they were part of the alliance that started the way, they are considered the aggressors of the war (even when they leave the alliance itself since the war is copied over), and as such are not allowed to join a new alliance.

Being the aggressor corp is the only case where a wardec mechanically blocks anything you want to do.

i think the problem is not that they have a active mutual war it's that they cannot join another alliance , i knew that for chars there is a 7 day period until they can rejoin a corp under a active war , have no idea if the same rule applies for corps that leave / join alliances .

As i understand it and also have some inside info on the situation : RR was part of a alliance that declared war on a corp , they left said alliance for whatever reason (really doubt they left because of the war) . Got stuck with a war that eventually was declared mutual and are not able to join a new alliance because of it .

If that is the case it sounds a little weird . There should be a way to join a alliance even if u are under wardec .

Well then I do sympathize, seems a fix is in order then? At least have the war carry over but in a new alliance right.

I don't believe the issue is that they can't leave the alliance, the issue is that they didn't leave quickly enough and the war will follow them where ever they go.

You could simply try the surrender option and offer them some ISK.

If they are inactive and don't respond you are in no worse situation than now, if they accept it situation resolved. Nobody would think badly of you for taking that path to get out of a war with an inactive corp playing games like that.


I'll have to brush up on the mechanics involved in a mutual war dec, but if I remember correctly they need some improvement in regards to this specific issue. Perhaps instead of a mutual war dec being free instead both sides might pay a reduced fee (one that cannot be automatically paid)... which would help to keep totally inactive corps from pulling stuff like this. The defender would still have the option to lock in the aggressor, but would have to pay a modest fee for the privilege, as well as take responsibility for manually paying the fee.

Nah. They specifically wanted to avoid that so that you can't GÇ£sneakGÇ¥ in a lot of free support on the aggressor side.

The issue would rather be the copying of the aggressor and/or mutuality flags, and even those are iffy as far as issues go.

The actual problem here is that they apparently can't get the other side to react to (and, preferably, agree to) an offer of surrender.

They're not totally inactive, the guy is lying. We know this because they were alert enough to see the war and make it mutual. He's trying to make excuses to get CCP to get him out of the situation rather than pay the ransom.

We made the surrendering offer but nowbody is online to accept it

Well, highsec greifers gave up the ability to do 2mil wardecs on everyone for the ability to prevent you from running away with a game mechanic. You could 'deal with it' or you could negotiate with the aggressors.

Maybe make the mutual war just carry over to corp but not whole alliance? Yeah, this is a not easy to figure out, maybe the OP just chewed more than he could swallow and he needs to face it and just wait or pay whatever they ask. Also wondered why he decided to leave just as war became mutual? I am all over the place on this one, sympathy or no sympathy, that is the question

Even we have left the alliance they have the oportunity within 24 hours to make the war mutual......when we have exited the alliance the war was not mutual

Off topic posts removed.

Moved from EVE General discussion.

Why did u move this topic?

This puts a big smile on my face. I'm glad that wars mean something again and dec-shielding has gotten so much harder. I agree w/ the GM... you should disband your corp in shame and start another one, endeavoring to make better alliance and war choices in the future. +9001 to CCP for the new WarDecs!

/feature working as intended.

Wow this is a very bad idea on ccp's part i mean they passed out on all that isk if the war is declared mutual .

On the other hand i am wondering how much time did they spend on this idea since there is no exit strategy other than of course the mutual agreement. But thinking about this some more anyone can create a corp put it into a alliance that is being wardeced and then inherit the was and declare mutual and hunt the wardeccing alliance/ corp until ccp decides on a alternative option or shuts down the server . That would serve very well with the old war deccing like Moar Tears Privateers and co :) . I don't think anyone would want a perma war with those guys esp the 0.0 alliances . I thought the new price for war was to prevent these stupid war decs and make the real ones more fun but since this loophole exists and well it has been deemed a normal game mechanic it will probably become a normal thing in new eden in a few days . Yes u need to fall in for the trap as u need to do the wardec but some ppl never read ....


All i would like to say further is ...

IN B4 IT HAPPENS TO GEWNS AND THE MECHANIC IS CHANGED BY MASS PETITION




OFC : I forgot about the disband thing but that is just simply ******** imagine disbanding a corp like dreddit or smth with 8k players

Well, right now Manifest Destiny is locked in a mutual war with Goonswarm Federation. If somebody could disband Goonswarm Federation right now, then all the Goon corps would drop alliance and automagically declare war against Manifest Destiny, at this point Manifest Destiny could set the war mutual with each of the corps thereby preventing any of those corps from ever joining a new alliance. Pretty cool, huh?

well this guys are taking advantage of this from 2009, and CCP just acting like nothing is happening. I just found a post about something similar like this, where they are listed with their alts:
" FW trouble
From: Ankhesentapemkah
Sent: 2009.12.04 02:05
To: Jade Constantine,

Hello Jade, how's it going?

As you may know, the PERVS and Cadre corps are exploiting FW bugs heavily and currently capturing all Minmatar space. If nothing is done they'll have it within the month.

I've already informed CCP but CCP didnt care when they used exploits to capture all gallente space either, stupid slackers.

Anyway, Z0D, my puppet on the CSM, is hiring all mercs he can find to grief them out of the game if CCp doesnt ban them, and Electus matari and a lot of gallente FW corps are going after them as well, starting this weekend. I'll finally get into PVP with my alt, as this is something worth fighting for!

Are you in as well?

Thanks, Eva

Info about the targets:

Main Targets:
Damar Rocarion
Bad Messenger
Unfamed II
Kuolematon
Yuri Intaki (likely Damar's alt or shared account)

Target Corps:
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
The Cadre
Whatever corp they use for their alts, suspected corp is Emperor Throne Guards as they used this in the past.

Target Corp Members:
Blaze Doran, SoKore, Minh Aldara, Lt Merc (Cadre)
Cletanainen, Lancress, Lina Lucent, Prismaa, Vampy Vampress, Tupsu, Tosi, Talerco and Sidaro (pervs)

Alts used for FW:
Michiru Murakami, Huppu Hemmo, Eva Jubse, Suurimaaami Mehmed, Maik Zierra, Sentern Embric, Pahani Julmu, Mestari Jaakko, Zan Fee, Rage coordinator, viidentahden vakooja, Per Capano, Pim Panero, Xian Bling

Time Zone:
Damar and Bad Messenger are confirmed Finnish, Unfamed II is suspected USA, Kuolematon is suspected British. A lot of them are unemployed and can be found online at any time. PERVS is a finnish-exclusive corp, while Cadre is their non-finnish wing.
.............................."

Interestingly Bad Messenger is the most outspoken opponent of the recent FW changes. He's really upset that he can't milk the system anymore at his factions expense.

We made the surrendering offer but nowbody is online to accept it

The solution to this problem is simple tbh and it's a shame ccp lack the brain power to fix it.

When a corp / alliance makes a war mutual, there is no longer an "agressing" party, both sides are effectively agressing. At this point both parties should be afforded the mechanics of a defending party

The solution to this problem is simple tbh and it's a shame ccp lack the brain power to fix it.

When a corp / alliance makes a war mutual, there is no longer an "agressing" party, both sides are effectively agressing. At this point both parties should be afforded the mechanics of a defending party

well this guys are taking advantage of this from 2009, and CCP just acting like nothing is happening. I just found a post about something similar like this, where they are listed with their alts:
" FW trouble
From: Ankhesentapemkah
Sent: 2009.12.04 02:05
To: Jade Constantine,

Hello Jade, how's it going?

As you may know, the PERVS and Cadre corps are exploiting FW bugs heavily and currently capturing all Minmatar space. If nothing is done they'll have it within the month.

I've already informed CCP but CCP didnt care when they used exploits to capture all gallente space either, stupid slackers.

Anyway, Z0D, my puppet on the CSM, is hiring all mercs he can find to grief them out of the game if CCp doesnt ban them, and Electus matari and a lot of gallente FW corps are going after them as well, starting this weekend. I'll finally get into PVP with my alt, as this is something worth fighting for!

Are you in as well?

Thanks, Eva

Info about the targets:

Main Targets:
Damar Rocarion
Bad Messenger
Unfamed II
Kuolematon
Yuri Intaki (likely Damar's alt or shared account)

Target Corps:
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
The Cadre
Whatever corp they use for their alts, suspected corp is Emperor Throne Guards as they used this in the past.

Target Corp Members:
Blaze Doran, SoKore, Minh Aldara, Lt Merc (Cadre)
Cletanainen, Lancress, Lina Lucent, Prismaa, Vampy Vampress, Tupsu, Tosi, Talerco and Sidaro (pervs)

Alts used for FW:
Michiru Murakami, Huppu Hemmo, Eva Jubse, Suurimaaami Mehmed, Maik Zierra, Sentern Embric, Pahani Julmu, Mestari Jaakko, Zan Fee, Rage coordinator, viidentahden vakooja, Per Capano, Pim Panero, Xian Bling

Time Zone:
Damar and Bad Messenger are confirmed Finnish, Unfamed II is suspected USA, Kuolematon is suspected British. A lot of them are unemployed and can be found online at any time. PERVS is a finnish-exclusive corp, while Cadre is their non-finnish wing.
.............................."

So as i said emperor throne guard is an alts corp that is using this to block corps to enter any alliance.
God job CCP for not thinking of this exploit.
We HAOS demand a fix to this matter in next patch.And i think we are not the only once that in the same situation.
As a solutions to this u have here some that u can use :
Make that any part of the mutual war can offer ransom or
Any of corp involved can join an alliance.
U can also use that check box for both corps for mutual war

So you want that aggressor must have right to retract from war if they want (doesent have to agree on mutual war), but defender must stay in war as long as aggressor wants? Your alliance wardecked 10 man corp but your plan backfired and now you DEMAND CCP to save you?

It seems to me that you guys are not in a position to make any demands... Maby you should just remake your corp and not make any stupid mistakes in future?

I believe you're heavily missing the point. No the agressing corp shouldnt be able to back out of a mutual war, the same as a defending corp cannot back out of a war. However when the defending corp sets the war mutual, both parties should hvae equal rights with regards to joining / leaving an alliance or hiring allies etc. The current system is clearly floored and open to abuse on the part of a defending corp being able to literally trap a corp in a wardec that could continue forever.

As someone suggested earlier, currently the only way to guarentee your corp never gets stuck in this kind of dilemma is if you NEVER declare war on anyone, and hope that your alliance does not either ... how does this promote a healthy wardec system?

Nah, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything... It really is good idea not to go to war or join alliances if you are afraid of consequences. But there is no hurry to fix this "game breaking mechanic" because OP has an option to remake his corp with same name if he wants to get out of this embarrassing situation. Mark of shame in corp history is only price and quite fitting one.

It's just stupid to blame victim of the war about "exploiting" when they use mutual war which is current game mechanics. Do defender have to retract from war every time aggressor feels sad becouse current mechanics arent fair? Well war usually is not fair.

from your posts it seems you are saying "if you declare war on ANYBODY, EVER you should expect the consequences" (consequences in this case being the likelyhood you'll have to disband your corp should you ever wish to join an alliance) ... Is this honestly your opinion?

I intentionally steered clear of the word exploit since from the CCP responses I have seen on the subject from various people, it seems its working as they want it to, hence it's not technically an "exploit"

It is however a clearly broken / flawed mechanic, to claim otherwise is pretty narrow minded. When your corp (the defending corp) presses the "make mutual" button, you are agreeing to continue the war in exactly the same way the agressing corp did when it hit "declare war". Why then, at that stage should the (originally) defending corp be afforded defensive rights yet the (originally) attacking corp not? it makes zero sense.

If you're arguing the carebear point of view, well a carebear corp would never make a war mutual because they want rid of the agressors as soon as possible, they can still join an alliance or hire allies in an attempt to drive off the attackers. However, the only reason I see for making a war mutual under the curent system (aside from situations like RvB) is to then trap the attacking corp into a foreverwar, thus breaking the whole wardec system to the point nobody will be declaring war on anybody (I know I won't be until this is fixed)

from your posts it seems you are saying "if you declare war on ANYBODY, EVER you should expect the consequences" (consequences in this case being the likelyhood you'll have to disband your corp should you ever wish to join an alliance) ... Is this honestly your opinion?

It's not my opinion, it's how this game works now. And I must say again that I like what I see in this thread.

An exceptionally well delivered argument, very conducive to a discussion about a clearly flawed game mechanic.

I give up

:golfclap:

Nah, it's just that you see problem where there is none. We have pointed out way to deal this situation for OP. He deals with it or stays stuck with a war his alliance started.

CCP cant change rules and mechanics every time someone is stubborn enough not to play by rules and starts whining in forums.

yes, because CCP and their all knowing wisdom have never (by their own admission) gotten something wrong ...

you clearly havn't been here very long.

If that is your main, I have been here littlebit longer than you. I'm not the oldest ones, but old enough that I have seen many great expansion and patches. And I have also seen the waves of tears those expansion have raised. I have seen Jita burn and statues fall under the rage of the lesser minded fools. But still CCP has managed to focus in their own vision and keeps delivering us the content that keeps us hooked for this unforgiving world.

I know change can be scary, but if you are willing to learn new mechanics and rules you will prevail. New Eden can be harsh and cold world for those who cant adapt when enviroment evolves, but that is the way of the game.

if you truly believe that ccp's objective is to force people to never wardec anyone for fear of having to disband their "10yr old" (older than both of us combined and infact, almost as old as eve itself) corporation, then you good sir, are beyond reasoning with.

good day.

This puts a big smile on my face. I'm glad that wars mean something again and dec-shielding has gotten so much harder. I agree w/ the GM... you should disband your corp in shame and start another one, endeavoring to make better alliance and war choices in the future. +9001 to CCP for the new WarDecs!

/feature working as intended.

Romanian Renegades, a corp that has been around as long as EVE has, joined an alliance. That alliance decced a 10-man corp and RR left the alliance shortly thereafter for their own reasons. AFTER they left the 10-man corp made the war mutual and now, due to mechanics, RR can't join any other alliance due to being at war as an 'agressor'.

Emperor Throne Guards is hardly inactive and a corp with proud pvp history. I disapprove labeling them as "empty shells". Why, i'm online most days and could pass information to people needed to talk about this wardec.

Also, that internal memo brings back lots of memories. Legendary corporations, legendary pilots, legendary times

If that's the case Damar, you may want to tell them why you won't accept their surrender request and let them be on their way? It's pretty clear they don't want to be locked down in an eternal war when they might instead join another alliance and be on with their lives.

If that's the case Damar, you may want to tell them why you won't accept their surrender request and let them be on their way? It's pretty clear they don't want to be locked down in an eternal war when they might instead join another alliance and be on with their lives.

You should contact Bad Messenger he's usualy online.:)

I'm sure he'll discuss terms with you. You probaly wont like them tho.

Price has apparently been set so perhaps there will be progress. At least that's what BM told me.

It's called exploit

but CCP will only involve in this if a member of their friends alliances or any of their friends are petitioning this ... cause they don't give a crap about old corp or old players .... don't u see ?!

how else they continually **** and nerf everything in this game if they cared bout their players ?! how else could they nerf faction warfare without even give a 1 week notification just to **** caldari militia .... seriously this is just ****** up ... yet again i have lost my interest in eve, me also, i'm an old player, playing and paying CCP salaries since 2005 ! they still don't give a **** !

Conclusion: Disband, sell everything, Uninstall EVE Online, SUE CCP for anti Player Support / Customer Support in EVE Online Game Mechanics, they do the rules just as they woke up in the morning ... same as they respect them ....

They tell us this game is fun, yeah probably for kill2 or other DEV's that are allowed to play EVE Online, (and again why do DEV's are allowed to play !? ) but for some this is a second job ! trying to play to make isk and not having fun (which is totally crap), i love PVP, i love this game, but this continuous nerfing made me loose interest in this game and play different other games that provide a more appropriate Customer Support, and more fun than EVE.

Eve is not fair.

They still have option to remake their corp with same name (like CCP already told them). THEY HAVE THE OPTION. They are not stuck anywhere else but in their own principles. It's a jail they made themselves and it's up to them to deside if they wanna be stuck or not.

It's irrelevant if their corp is 10 years or 1 day old. It's live and learn.

I mean, if for some reason you would have gotten into similiar situation with PERVS, would you have dropped the dec? I know for certain I would not give you any luxury. Then again, you are from Ankhs corporation so I automatically label you as a stinking pile of human f.ces, so unlike some other corps/people out there, you have zero respect from me.

You are intentionally ignoring the bigger issue here. EVE may not be fair, but it is a game. One people pay for. To be entertained. There is an exit in place for most situations, so that even if things don't work out, even if everything goes to hell, you can leave and do something else.

It was never CCP's intention to kill an entire facet of their own damn game, and any claims otherwise from you is nothing but trolling.

II wonder, if your corp was in a similar situation, would you be so damn cocky about it? "I can never get out of this war and thus I can never join any alliance ever, our requests for a surrender is being ignored so, we will be forced to disband our corp. But hey, it's completely cool with us, working as intended."

Somehow I don't imagine you will. Put yourself in another's shoes sometime and try to see the issue from their POW.

GMVA is not an alliance led by a delusional hater who likes to hold IRL grudges and hate-agendas towards 'enemies' in a computer game. GMVA is in fact run by and populated by PLAYERS, who realize we play a GAME, with OTHER PLAYERS. Ergo, any combat or war we have with our 'enemies' stop once we walk away from our computers.

You are intentionally ignoring the bigger issue here. EVE may not be fair, but it is a game. One people pay for. To be entertained. There is an exit in place for most situations, so that even if things don't work out, even if everything goes to hell, you can leave and do something else.

Except that, in this case, the only option is very extreme - disband your corp and re-make it, then NEVER DEC ANYONE ELSE EVER AGAIN.

In other words, even if RR disbanded, they, and anyone else, would be morons to declare war on anything because this situation could then simply be repeated. That is a broken mechanic, an unintended side-effect of a previous fix. It was never CCP's intention to kill an entire facet of their own damn game, and any claims otherwise from you is nothing but trolling.

I wonder, if your corp was in a similar situation, would you be so damn cocky about it? "I can never get out of this war and thus I can never join any alliance ever, our requests for a surrender is being ignored so, we will be forced to disband our corp. But hey, it's completely cool with us, working as intended."

Somehow I don't imagine you will. Put yourself in another's shoes sometime and try to see the issue from their POW.

Price has apparently been set so perhaps there will be progress. At least that's what BM told me.

I've been told by many people that best entertainment in Eve is make other peoples game experience so miserable that they ragequit and never return. Some have even told me their ultimate goal, unrealistic as it may be, is to cause whole eve to ragequit so they can stop playing this s.itty game and go do something more interesting.

And the guy that start this thread is leader of this corporation for somewhere around 10 years. Can you even remember what was YOU playing that time?

In the meantime, all my fellow FW corps/alliances(except Happy Endings who are already trapped) DO NOT DECLARE WAR ON ANYBODY unless you want to trash your corp or alliance. That especially applies to you Tek, even if they use the magic Torpedo word and really deserve a war dec.

I've been told by many people that best entertainment in Eve is make other peoples game experience so miserable that they ragequit and never return. Some have even told me their ultimate goal, unrealistic as it may be, is to cause whole eve to ragequit so they can stop playing this s.itty game and go do something more interesting.

How are you so well versed with CCP's inner workings? Oh right, I forgot. CCP likes to throw your militia every bonus imaginable. RR should perhaps join Frog militia and see if CCP would fix the issue. I'm sure they would get right to it.

Fortunately I am not in a corp who gives a flying f.ck about such things since ultimately we are ultimately on our own. Being part of current alliance was just a political maneuver done for a temporary gain and not being able to join another one would be irrelevant.

Exactly like you have done in the past regarding me. Oh wait, you have not.

Your corporation only approved death threats sent over internet space pixels but of course you are not delusional haters with their own hate agenda but relaxed people who, oh wait...

So.. the whole this tread is about:
" I've decced 10 man noob mining corp cuz Im so Pro and they did mutual and go to huge dec taking ally and now we are *****d. CCP HALP US !! We dont want to disband our SO PRO CORP cuz whole community will laugh their ass*s off of us. HALP HALP!!!"

Why instead of yapping on 50 pages of thread you so called *pro hisec Failcenaries* grow some balls and fight or move to lowsec and give them all fu*k?
You are SO MAD cuz you cant easly grief 10 days old noobs now?

There is action and reaction so shut up all and learn to play!


Also: PUSSIES YOU!!!

People pay to be entertained? So if you pay you dont have to play by the rules? You just enterntain yourself until you are in dead-end and then it's time to go in forums and demand that rules are changed?



Why shouldn't they newer deck enyone else? Maby they should only deck people they want to fight, not troll some 10 player alt corp and throw wardecks left and right?



I dont see problem here. If we imagine situation where we would fail in a current mechanics and get stuck in a pointless war, why shouldnt we disband and make same corp again? That is the way to get rid of them atm. Maby you guys shouldnt start wars if you dont agree with mechanics?

Nor do I actually need to put myself in your shoes - I already am in a matching pair. As a member of a corp that is a member of an alliance that is part of Faction Warfare (previously Free Welfare) I know how being in a militia is like. The changes CCP bring affects us all in similar ways.

Fascinating. You seem to know better than me what transpires inside my own alliance. Oh wait...

Clearly you know what you are talking about, have read and understood the OP, and are completely right in your assumptions.

Nah, I'll go with "obvious troll" for this one.

It's not troll.
I live in lowsec for 2 years now with constant outlaw status.
For me war begins every time i undock from station. There is no rules, no safes just Pew and fun. Those who wardec someone and then cries on forum cuz decced corp locked them in infinite war are PUSSIES and filthy carebear.
So stop careing and start playing!

It's about being locked out from moving alliances and such due to a **** mechanic you mentally deficient pvp wannabe nitwit

And it's something you would do without a moments hesitation if you had the chance, despite your militia buddy saying things to contrary. Since humans by default are evil bastards.

It's not troll.
I live in lowsec for 2 years now with constant outlaw status.
For me war begins every time i undock from station. There is no rules, no safes just Pew and fun. Those who wardec someone and then cries on forum cuz decced corp locked them in infinite war are PUSSIES and filthy carebear.
So stop careing and start playing!

The problem appeared after RR had been persuaded to leave the alliance, (apparently they did not do so out of fear of some 10-man corp) because once they had done so they were still at war with the 10-man corp, and that corp then made the war mutual.

Dead God I hope whoever the next person to Hargoth an alliance is keeps this mechanic in mind.

Also, if someone wants to kick a corporation from their alliance, could they wardec their own one-man alt corp, kick the corporation, make the war mutual and thus prevent that corporation from ever joining another alliance?

And if so, could they then end the war with the alliance itself, but keep the mutual war with the corporation going forever?

And with this, I'm almost completely sure your trolling for the sake of it, as opposed to be as persistently ignorant as you appear.

I could spend another 20 minutes of my rapidly diminishing available time to try, again, to point out the glaring issues with your claims, but that's the thing with trolls; the point is to make me pointlessly waste my time.

um yall are missing the key issue which is the corp that declared the war mutual isn't inactive

Actually I might be mistaken here but the war was mutual to begin with and the moment RR left alliance on their own, they were permanently saddled with it. I did see some surrender offer but I think it was 3m isk or 300k isk so I assumed it was just a trolling attempt.



You do understand that they declared war on us with intent of breaking us and ruining our enjoyment. Not other way around. Why should we feel bad for 200 man corp attempting to make war on 10 man corp?

THIS IS THE F****** GREAT PROBLEM.

Actually I might be mistaken here but the war was mutual to begin with and the moment RR left alliance on their own, they were permanently saddled with it. I did see some surrender offer but I think it was 3m isk or 300k isk so I assumed it was just a trolling attempt.



You do understand that they declared war on us with intent of breaking us and ruining our enjoyment. Not other way around. Why should we feel bad for 200 man corp attempting to make war on 10 man corp?

Re: war
From: Bad Messenger
Sent: 2012.10.25 23:08
To: ev3rmor3,

I can arrange war to end for 50b , if you want to use 3th party i will accept Chribba, you pay expences.

Yours
Bad Messenger

---

war
From: ev3rmor3
Sent: 2012.10.25 21:08
To: Bad Messenger,

I want to have a chat to solve a problem regarding a war that obviously we didn't start and didn't want

Your request is "extremely abusive" and because of this reason Romania Renegades is considering this war can continue like this forever

Romania Renegades never had issues with any war and and I do not see why this would bother us. Romania Renegades never forgets people that are helping the corporation and never forgets people that are doing things against this corporation.
ISK you requested will be a good hunting reason and will be used to be donated to Romania Renegades' friends becasue I will offer ISK for each ship destroyed of corporation of alts and main corp or alliance.

This situation proved that corporation can adapt very fast and noticed that has very good allies that accept us the way we are without joining any allyance so eve moves on.


PS - I wish you maxim fun in this war .. many thanks to all that understood this matter and were next to us on the forum ... and not last thanks CCP that managed to prove once more inability of solving problems that this game mechanics has

Most annoying. I had just inspected records and it does seem RR were in HE for only five days and generally had no part of the whole sorry affair so we were actually willing to drop the dec for a nominal fee of 3b isk (we need plex to activate said account of course, hence the cost) . But if we are threathened in forums and in public then we have to reconsider.

So you admit that this is an inactive corp left only to keep the war going for grieving purposes?

I get that you were a small corp and did not have the numbers to fight back thru PVP. But exploiting a broken mechanic to get back at them through grieving is not acceptable.

This is an exploit used for grieving and absolutely must be fixed.

So you admit that this is an inactive corp left only to keep the war going for grieving purposes?

I get that you were a small corp and did not have the numbers to fight back thru PVP. But exploiting a broken mechanic to get back at them through grieving is not acceptable.

This is an exploit used for grieving and absolutely must be fixed.

There is nothing exploits , it is working as intended, you should study CCP devblog about this issue and reasons why things are like they are.

There is nothing exploits , it is working as intended, you should study CCP devblog about this issue and reasons why things are like they are.

Most annoying. I had just inspected records and it does seem RR were in HE for only five days and generally had no part of the whole sorry affair so we were actually willing to drop the dec for a nominal fee of 3b isk (we need plex to activate said account of course, hence the cost) . But if we are threathened in forums and in public then we have to reconsider.

This might be a lesson for all people. Inspect what wars you are jumping to before joining and alliance and be cautious if you happen to see sociopath Finns involved.

It's our alt corp and we hardly remember it's existence at best of times. As said, our main corp Nasranite Watch was decced too, war lasted for weeks and you can inspect the records of how it went. for everyone included. Broken mechanic was not even triggered deliberately, it just kept going due to previous events and RR got the brunt of it for joining the alliance that decced Nasranites & Empe.

But next time if someone wants to do diplomacy with us, you really should contact Damar, not other guys. I'm actually the "good cop" who can be reasoned with (Unless you are a member of froggie militia)

Comming from a dude that was warned for using exploits to bear. people should really trust you right ....

we all are warned about using exploits, just read eula, I have never exploited anything or i have never got personal warning about using exploits, all i have ever done is working as intended and confirmed from ccp.

As in this matter route out of situation is to leave corp and make new one, if you are not willing to use it , it does not make me or any other as exploiter.

And for Bugsy VanHalen i want to say that CCP hardly can ban you if you have inactive account. EMPE is not even inactive corporation, everyday some of those members log in and even undock.

Emperor Throne Guards is hardly inactive and a corp with proud pvp history. I disapprove labeling them as "empty shells". Why, i'm online most days and could pass information to people needed to talk about this wardec.

Also, that internal memo brings back lots of memories. Legendary corporations, legendary pilots, legendary times

I cleary can accept your view point in this matter, you wanted to cause isk losses for our friends and you are not willing to compensate possible caused losses and you want to continue this mutual war after all.

I do not see how CCP is failed because we both agreed that this war can be mutual.

As this thread shows current wardec systems is working as intended.

Then why do you need billions of isk to buy PLEX to reactivate an account to drop the war? And they can ban all accounts linked to your I.P. Not just the inactive one used for the exploit. They know what I.P. are used to access what accounts.Just as you can not log in a trial account and an active account simultaneously from the same I.P.

So you say that CCP will ban me because i have an account that has char at war and account is inactive?

There's no point in thinking about it .. when you will get war from RR to Liandri Covenant please make mutual ...

PS : I tried to close this matter in an honourable manner but I see there's no point

No they could ban you for exploiting a flawed mechanic for the purpose of grieving.
According to the EULA grieving is a banable offense.
According to the EULA using exploits is also a banable offense.
When CCP imposes a ban they can ban all accounts linked to the same I.P. if they so choose.

You are obviously not using the war mechanics as intended, As your alt character, in your alt corp, who is involved in the war and keeping it active, is on an inactive account.
The fact that their is no mechanic for dealing with this issue makes this an exploit.
The fact that you are using this exploit to grieve an active player on an active account is a violation of the EULA.
The fact that you do not understand this seriously diminishes your credibility.

It's amazing how quickly it went from "masive fail on game designers' part, save us from the consequences of our actions" to "when you will get war ...please make mutual ".

Some people might learn something .

yeah we do .. it's clearly that CCP FAILS

hey bad meesanger no reply u got wrdeced ony your main corp and u surrendered and now act high an mighty :))
the plot thickens

This isn't an exploit. While I disagree with BM on many things, they are using the game mechanics to their advantage. Much like how pirates use the Orca mechanic to gatecamp and GTFO when overwhelmed. As for RR being a 10 year old corp full of memories and nostalgia, CCP doesn't take sentimentality into account when trying to fix said issue. The burden falls on RR to do their homework rather than go willy nilly and join any alliance. Clearly RR didn't do their homework. Sorry to be so cold, but that's the truth.

PS - If RR can't negotiate with BM, then just dec his entire alliance and see what happens. Liandri has a 33% KB efficiency. There's so many ways you can force this issue, even if it's through warfare than diplomacy. There are ways to resolve the issue if you want to join an alliance that badly. This is New Eden; Might Makes Right.

Sure i am ready to negotiate about terms of surrender, but it seems that our vision about how much is proper amount of isk is so much different that they can not accept it.

They do not realise that potential income for EMPE in time of that war was about 1600b so couple millions for ending war seems pretty pathetic amount of isk compared to potetial damage taken.

Also their participation on alliance who wardecs own militia is not any reason to lower demands either.

what time of war ??? they are not in militia since the day war started ,they moved back to 0.0

ALL YOUR BITCHING BELONG TO US.

oh and um...why not just pay the 50mil that bad messenger offered you?

Incorrect. They were in militia for 5 days and participated in war against Nasranite Watch.

Happy Endings 2012.10.09 to 2012.10.14 and ther war started on 14 .. how the **** did they participated 5 days in war ??

You need math lessons ??? I

You need math lessons ??? I

It's our alt corp and we hardly remember it's existence at best of times. As said, our main corp Nasranite Watch was decced too, war lasted for weeks and you can inspect the records of how it went. for everyone included. Broken mechanic was not even triggered deliberately, it just kept going due to previous events and RR got the brunt of it for joining the alliance that decced Nasranites & Empe.

But next time if someone wants to do diplomacy with us, you really should contact Damar, not other guys. I'm actually the "good cop" who can be reasoned with (Unless you are a member of froggie militia)

Best spadework ever.

"Oshit son, this is broken griefing, so better make it look totes inadvertent in case of GM's getting het up on us!"

You certainly fooled me with your concerted revelations about how you all totally forgot you had alts in a corp you used to suck up wardecs.

GM is not getting us or they are not even interested about it, there is no exploits or exploiting on this case, everything is working as intended.

what a bounch of carebears
a alliance that is makeing ""1600b"" in a week and only flies cruises as the most expensive ships , hey bad messanger was the rent up when they war decced u and u were shivering that u might get kicked out ...
+ haveing a 35% eff makes u such a good fw alliance .....
the only thing your allaince has done is go and survivie as a parasite in the areas real fw alliances live ...
btw m8 i hope u won't use any caps in the near future we might see eachother in local and i will have a blast

wait so, OP and his corp have been in EVE since the beginning, they are still losing to 10 inactive players?

pwnd

Except that no-one is getting killed, and the war is preventing them from carrying on playing, e.g. they are unable to join any alliance.

Exacly.

This isn't an exploit. While I disagree with BM on many things, they are using the game mechanics to their advantage. Much like how pirates use the Orca mechanic to gatecamp and GTFO when overwhelmed. As for RR being a 10 year old corp full of memories and nostalgia, CCP doesn't take sentimentality into account when trying to fix said issue. The burden falls on RR to do their homework rather than go willy nilly and join any alliance. Clearly RR didn't do their homework. Sorry to be so cold, but that's the truth.

PS - If RR can't negotiate with BM, then just dec his entire alliance and see what happens. Liandri has a 33% KB efficiency. There's so many ways you can force this issue, even if it's through warfare than diplomacy. There are ways to resolve the issue if you want to join an alliance that badly. This is New Eden; Might Makes Right.

The mechanic it self is not an exploit but how they are using it is.

The idea behind the new mechanics is that you better be careful who you declare war on as you may not be able to take it back.

So they were against the war, and left the alliance, but did not get out in time to avoid the mutual war dec. That in itself is fine. working as intended.

But now that war is perpetuated by a corp that is run by inactive alts. They are keeping this war going at zero cost, and zero risk as all their alts that are keeping it active are on inactive accounts. This is where the exploit comes in. They have a corp locked in a permanent war, with zero risk to them selves, while preventing the other corp for accessing game content due to a perpetual war they are unable to fight as the other side is inactive accounts. And yet there is no way to shed this war. Although the mechanic it self is not an exploit, they are using it in a way it was not intended to be used, and in so are grieving another corp at zreo risk and cost to themselves.

When the GOONS made trillions of isk off the new FW mechanics they where using the new mechanic within its limits as it was designed to work. But yet CCP considered that an exploit to the point where accounts where frozen and the earned isk was seized. They were using the mechanic in a way it was not intended to be used, and it was considered an exploit.

As far as I am concerned abusing a mechanic in a way that prevents other players from accessing game content is far worse than what the GOONS did. If what the GOONS did was an exploit then so is this. If not then lift the bans of the GOONS accounts and give them back their isk.

The mechanic it self is not an exploit but how they are using it is.

The idea behind the new mechanics is that you better be careful who you declare war on as you may not be able to take it back.

So they were against the war, and left the alliance, but did not get out in time to avoid the mutual war dec. That in itself is fine. working as intended.

But now that war is perpetuated by a corp that is run by inactive alts. They are keeping this war going at zero cost, and zero risk as all their alts that are keeping it active are on inactive accounts. This is where the exploit comes in. They have a corp locked in a permanent war, with zero risk to them selves, while preventing the other corp for accessing game content due to a perpetual war they are unable to fight as the other side is inactive accounts. And yet there is no way to shed this war. Although the mechanic it self is not an exploit, they are using it in a way it was not intended to be used, and in so are grieving another corp at zreo risk and cost to themselves.

When the GOONS made trillions of isk off the new FW mechanics they where using the new mechanic within its limits as it was designed to work. But yet CCP considered that an exploit to the point where accounts where frozen and the earned isk was seized. They were using the mechanic in a way it was not intended to be used, and it was considered an exploit.

As far as I am concerned abusing a mechanic in a way that prevents other players from accessing game content is far worse than what the GOONS did. If what the GOONS did was an exploit then so is this. If not then lift the bans of the GOONS accounts and give them back their isk.

You've already been told what to do to get out of the war, its not CCPs fault you're too stubborn to use it. If you're really that attached to the corp use a holding alt to keep it open and maybe some time in the future something will happen and you can go back to it.

Systems definitely broken, not that I care but it is broken. Soon enough things will be so ****** up that they will have to fix it, right now noone can wardec someone without getting instantly stuck in a perma war with random people who thy never even wardecced. Amusing, but clearly broken.

Seems to me that CCP should do something considering the 10 man corp is not even active or really waging war, seems like they are exploiting a game mechanic thats broken to keep other's in cht situation without any risk to 10 man corp. But also, I smell a setup I think somebody is going to move on you soon. And those guys you allied with may have been in on it (speculation).

reading such an idiotic posts i really wonder: where are these "mature" players people are talking about all the time? Looks like they all on vacation....

Where are this plexes for 1600b/month ? I would gladly
stop killing stuff for free in nullsec and relocate the
main corp there.