I just don't understand how one I search the forums for Faction warfare I get hundreds of pages of information on FW from the people that use it. Yet none of what was discussed was any more than loosely based on things a majority of FW users want. I felt that ether we have all be using a noob-to-null devise improperly, or that they want this dead and will just change it to what ever we say we don't want.
We say casual they say drama
We say small scale they say alliance
We say not like null-lite they say nulls test bed
We say quik PvP they say popularity contest
And then theres this money thing I do want what we do and plexing to mean some thing but if you let alliances in and put money for having it in to play......

In the end I feel like FW as a hole is going some were i don't want to follow.

I see no need to be hostile to the idea that FW and nullsec sov could both use similar mechanics. ....

Here's a list of player suggestions regarding FW

Thanks. We'll file the list alongside the plans for comets and system-wide asteroid fields. Meanwhile we'll do our own thing with FW and use the militias as guinea pigs controlled by whoever leads the biggest corp in them

I just don't understand how one I search the forums for Faction warfare I get hundreds of pages of information on FW from the people that use it. Yet none of what was discussed was any more than loosely based on things a majority of FW users want. I felt that ether we have all be using a noob-to-null devise improperly, or that they want this dead and will just change it to what ever we say we don't want.
We say casual they say drama
We say small scale they say alliance
We say not like null-lite they say nulls test bed
We say quik PvP they say popularity contest
And then theres this money thing I do want what we do and plexing to mean some thing but if you let alliances in and put money for having it in to play......

1+
In the end I feel like FW as a hole is going some were i don't want to follow.

I have found that sometimes there are targets in the system, but something like 12 plexes open with 5 of the same size. If I want to try to initiate PvP via the plexes, it's going to take forever to either find the one with enemies, or for the enemies to find me. And more likely, the enemy will have the same reaction to the situation as me... "I'm not going to spend a bunch of time running around to all these plexes looking for someone, nor am I going to sit in one for 15mins tanking NPCs (if my fit even allows that) hoping they find me".

In a vast majority of cases I haven't found this to be the case. Plus if someone wants a fight in a plex they will stay inside and give you time to select the correct one on D-scan. The more flighty plex runners will be warping out as soon as you're on short scan anyway.

I also question the association between FW and casual PvP. Personally, I find small skirmish warfare to be much more demanding on individual pilots where the weakest link is quickly weeded out. In general I think more FW pilots have been exposed to close fights than much of the PvP that happens in null which is heavily dependent on fleet composition, logistics (not the ship type) and pure attrition. From my experience in 0.0, only a fraction of the population regularly engages in solo or skirmish pvp, and usually only fights during large fleets or CTAs.

This is true, but that can still be a pain if the system is large and requires multiple warps just to d-scan all the plexes. Also, keep in mind that I'm not talking about reducing the total number of plexes that can spawn in a day or per hour, only the number that can be open and warpable simultaneously in a single system..

I also question the association between FW and casual PvP. Personally, I find small skirmish warfare to be much more demanding on individual pilots where the weakest link is quickly weeded out. In general I think more FW pilots have been exposed to close fights than much of the PvP that happens in null which is heavily dependent on fleet composition, logistics (not the ship type) and pure attrition. From my experience in 0.0, only a fraction of the population regularly engages in solo or skirmish pvp, and usually only fights during large fleets or CTAs.

We say casual they say drama
We say small scale they say alliance
We say not like null-lite they say nulls test bed
We say quik PvP they say popularity contest

OOrrrah!!

Very well put, this sums up my feelings exactly. What we have here is a clear case of a group of individuals who don't understand us, representing us.

Is Faction Warfare a sinking hole? Depends on how you look at it. Every day I can undock and get some fun kills, I hate to use words like that to describe it. Is it headed somewhere we don't want to go? Not if we keep fighting. I'm not giving this up, I hope you all stick with me here until we see this thing to the bitter end. Like I said - these talks are just the beginning. We still have an opportunity to keep pushing harder, and higher up the chain to get our voices heard.

I am no way acquiescing to the vision of FW portrayed by the summit notes, but I still am partially pleased by the very fact we've gotten the conversation pushed this far. I just want to remind everyone a year ago we had CCP stand us up at our own fanfest circle, now we're the topic of private talks between the CSM and the lead game designer.

Have we elevated Faction Warfare in terms of visibility? Absolutely. Have we gotten their attention back on to one of the games most broken features? Absolutely. Are they actually going to dig into the code this summer and make some improvements? I personally believe so.

Are they completely in touch with the community's own wishes for the feature? Absoutely not.

The last part is the hardest, but it is still achievable. What I urge everyone in here to remember is this - We have a dying "feature", but a living community. CCP still doesn't see the latter, because one of our own isn't in those talks yet. I believe that will change.

In the meantime - we face a force of attrition. Many of you are weary from the forum warrioring, your energies are running out, patience is razor thin, and the notes are (rightfully so) only hurting morale. But this isn't over until we see patch notes containing it all - whether its OUR list, or THEIR list.

I can't tell you what having you all in here working to keep this thread bumped, active, and filled with excellent ideas has meant to me. Your tenacity is why I love and respect Faction Warfare pilots so dearly, everyone here wants to FIGHT, and you've taken that to defend the feature itself, not just your factions.

I started this thread three months ago - it is now 42 pages long and one of the most active threads in the forum. YOUR dedication is the only reason I believe that we even have CSM summit notes to complain about right now. I think we've already changed minds at the top, even if we haven't turned the heads far enough.

We will lose more players to apathy, hopelessness, anger, frustration, and disappointment, before Faction Warfare is finally overhauled. I hope we can all try to stay constructive, keep speaking up - because if its only a dozen of us in here, our words become the complaints of a bitter few, not the demands of the many. Bring your friends into the thread - we need more input, more voices standing together - to counteract those that inevitably will tire of the wait and move on to other games, or other scenes within New Eden.

The CSM notes do NOT describe a FW that reflects where we - the dedicated community who has invested EVERYTHING to keeping it alive when CCP abandoned it - want it to go. But that does not mean we are not making progress. Before we could ever hope to share our vision, we had to prove that Faction Warfare is desperately broken (mechanically), and we've accomplished that. We had to prove that fixing Faction Warfare will mean something to the rest of the game as well - we've accomplished that. As many pointed out, a council seat will be the next necessary step in our march forward.

There is still hope, there is still time. This is a first pass, the current CSM will come and go, and we will have the opportunity to correct the course - if everyone pitches in and keeps working together across all factions. Let the last year teach us all that change is possible, and that CCP does listen to its players.

I wouldn't keep posting day, after day, after day, If I really thought that the vision we read in the notes is really going to come to pass despite our attempts at intervention. If we give up now though, and call it day - I guarantee it will be.

I just don't understand how one I search the forums for Faction warfare I get hundreds of pages of information on FW from the people that use it. Yet none of what was discussed was any more than loosely based on things a majority of FW users want. I felt that ether we have all be using a noob-to-null devise improperly, or that they want this dead and will just change it to what ever we say we don't want.
We say casual they say drama
We say small scale they say alliance
We say not like null-lite they say nulls test bed
We say quik PvP they say popularity contest
And then theres this money thing I do want what we do and plexing to mean some thing but if you let alliances in and put money for having it in to play......

In the end I feel like FW as a hole is going some were i don't want to follow.

Rel'k for CSM!

The CSM telling CCP to use FW as a test bed for null is not at all surprising to me tbh.

Why doesn't FW have a full representative on the CSM anyways?

We should have members of each faction pasting reminders here and there in the militia channels about this thread and the current action required by the community. I'll try to remember to remind people.

Also... I may be ******** here but... what deep-scan are we talking about here? 360-14AU directional scan?

Hurrraahh!!!! commrade!!

Rel'k for CSM!

The CSM telling CCP to use FW as a test bed for null is not at all surprising to me tbh.

Why doesn't FW have a full representative on the CSM anyways?